Stewart Brand and Chris Anderson: Mammoths resurrected, geoengineering and other thoughts from a futurist
Stjuart Brend (Stewart Brand) i Kris Anderson (Chris Anderson): Vaskrsli mamuti, geoinženjering i druge misli futuriste
Since the counterculture '60s, Stewart Brand has been creating our internet-worked world. Now, with biotech accelerating four times faster than digital technology, Stewart Brand has a bold new plan ... Full bioChris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
you founded this magazine.
osnovao ovaj časopis.
To je originalni primerak.
It's the original one.
that I was part of at the time,
čiji sam bio deo u to vreme,
of hippies and New Left.
at where the interesting flow is
u zanimljive tokove događaja,
as an army officer,
obučen da tako radim,
heuristika za otkrivanje originalnosti:
to find originalities:
else is looking,
the hippies were very romantic
da su hipici bili veoma romantični
it was a power device.
fold, or mutilate.
nesavitljivi, nerasklopljivi.
was kind of a counter-counterculture thing
bio nešto kao stvar kontra-kontrakulture
Buckminster Fuller's idea
ideju Bakminstera Fulera
define the world in interesting ways.
određuju svet na zanimljive načine.
disappeared one week,
na nedelju dana
and engineers disappeared one week,
i inženjeri nestali na nedelju dana,
about power to the people.
govorila o moć narodu.
and Steve Wozniak
i Stiva Voznjaka
don't try to change human nature,
ne pokušavajte da menjate ljudsku prirodu,
and it does not even bend,
i nije se čak ni povila,
if you want to make the world better
ako želite da poboljšate svet,
da navedete ljude da se ponašaju drugačije
differently like the New Left was,
that go in the right direction.
da bi se kretali u pravom smeru.
this is one of the first images,
ovo je jedna od prvih slika,
Earth from outer space.
Zemlju iz svemira.
that in the spring of '66,
da sam u leto '66,
on a rooftop in San Francisco,
na krovu u San Francisku,
something that Fuller talked about,
o nečemu o čemu je Fuler govorio,
that the Earth is flat
da je Zemlja ravna
in terms of its resources,
u smislu resursa,
that it's a sphere
je bila njegova metafora.
on my hundred micrograms
na svojih stotinu mikrograma
which were right in front of me
koje su bile tačno ispred mene,
they were sort of fanned out like this.
bile su nekako ovako raspršene.
they are on a curved surface.
I would see that even more clearly,
to bi mi bilo još jasnije,
the circle of Earth from space.
in space for 10 years --
u svemiru smo već 10 godina -
or looking at just parts of the Earth.
ili su samo gledale delove Zemlje.
a photograph of the whole Earth yet?
fotografiju celokupne Zemlje?
and senators, secretaries got it,
i senatora, sekretara
in the Politburo got it,
Catalog came out,
Whole Earth Catalog,
lazy and ingenious
that you see --
marša za nauku,
Whole Earth banners and so on --
way to make the system go
način da usmerite sistem
the whole system around in a big way,
čitav sistem na izrazit način,
horsing-around problems,
zeznute, probleme,
it will adjust to the tweak.
sam će da se podesi štimu.
among many other things,
in the environmental movement,
u pokretu očuvanja prirode,
taking on a lot of,
almost believe are heresies.
smatraju gotovo jeresima.
a couple of those.
and Arctic region, used to look like.
i Arktička oblast izgledali.
used to look like that.
tako izgledao.
and the Serengeti now,
u Južnoj Africi i Serengetiju,
throughout the world.
is to not only bring back those animals
ne samo da vratimo ove životinje
stabilization system over the long run,
sistem stabilizacije klime,
there in the background
a 200-year goal.
dvestogodišnji cilj.
the extinction rate
in the background.
of bio-abundance will take longer,
će da potraje duže,
should think of extinctions.
da razmišaljmo o izumiranjima.
concerns right now
at a faster rate than ever in history.
brže nego ikad u istoriji.
of the Sixth Extinction
of the Sixth Extinction.
the de-extinction business,
with Revive & Restore,
sa Revive & Restore,
going on with extinction.
šta se zaista dešava sa izumiranjem.
set of data out there
veoma zbunjujući skup podataka
indicated by the yellow triangles,
koja su označena žutim trouglovima,
66 million years ago
for a paper I wrote,
za naučni rad koji sam pisao
75 percent of all the species
kada 75 procenata svih vrsta
of five-and-a-half-million species,
pet i po miliona vrsta,
one and a half million.
jedan i po milion.
identified every year.
going on out there.
kind of used in strange ways.
kako se koristi nekako čudno.
in the New York Times,
na naslovnoj strani Njujork Tajmsa:
Broad Studies Show."
masovno izumiranje u okeanima".
and it mentions that since 1500,
koji pominje da je od 1500. godine
have gone extinct in the oceans,
none in the last 50 years.
u poslednjih 50 godina.
into the story, and it's saying,
are so overfishing the wild fishes,
u ribnjacima toliki
the fish populations in the oceans
riblju populaciju u okeanima
are probably going to go extinct.
verovatno neće izumreti.
"Oh my God, start panicking,
"Moj bože, počnite da paničite,
all the species in the oceans."
looking into in a little more detail,
podrobnije da ispitujem,
that are considered threatened
koje se smatraju ugroženim
for the Conservation of Nature, the IUCN.
za očuvanje prirode, IUCN.
surveying the loss of wildlife,
koji je istraživao gubitak divljeg sveta,
for more centuries and millennia,
više vekova i milenijuma,
of a sixth extinction.
na početku šestog izumiranja.
a moral responsibility to,
moralnu odgovornost
the thing that they are looking at,
maybe no one listens.
možda niko neće slušati.
moral this or moral that --
moralno je ovo ili ono -
"precautionary principle" --
"princip predostrožnosti" -
to basically say no to things.
u suštini za zabranu stvari.
fish extinction, animal extinction,
u izumiranju riba, životinja,
and there is losses going on.
i dolazi do gubitaka.
are caused by agriculture,
and basically makes it more condensed,
i zbog čega je ona zgusnutija,
vertikalnu zemljoradnju u gradu,
vertical farms in town,
about how to grow pot in basements,
o uzgoju marihuane u podrumima
vegetables inside containers --
povrća u saksijama -
we can do for nature.
što možemo da uradimo za prirodu.
of a destruction of the landscape is good.
nanosi pejzažima je dobro.
bringing back species, rewilding ...
obnovi divljeg sveta...
What's the story with these guys?
šta je fora s tim ljudima?
na prethodnu priču,
količine obradive zemlje,
at peak children being alive.
fewer and fewer children.
of human population,
udvostručavanju ljudske populacije
maybe nine and a half billion,
možda devet i po milijardi,
but probably going down.
da se uravnotežuje, već da opada.
je zemljoradnja na vrhuncu,
that plays out in Europe
na koje se to ispoljava u Evropi
of abandoned farmland now,
napuštene obradive zemlje,
corridors in Europe.
koridore za divlje životinje.
so many of these farms are connected
tih farmi povezano
reforested wildlife corridors,
pošumljene koridore za divlje životinje,
in this case, to Spain.
u ovom slučaju, u Španiju.
to the Netherlands.
There's lynx coming back.
I had no idea such a thing existed.
Nisam ni znao da takvo šta postoji.
to the rest of Europe.
which is kind of interesting.
što je nakako zanimljivo.
They've been missed.
Nedostajali su im.
when you bring back the predators,
kada vratite grabljivice,
ecosystem often.
and large animals --
i velike životinje -
with sharp teeth and claws --
sa oštrim zubima i kandžama -
for a really rich ecosystem.
za istinski bogat ekosistem.
more dramatic rewilding project
dramatičnog projekta obnove divljine
these terrifying woolly mammoths?
te zastrašujuće runaste mamute?
are the closest relative
genetically very close.
genetski su veoma bliski.
in evolutionary history.
u evolutivnoj istoriji.
are closer to woolly mammoths
to African elephants
with George Church at Harvard,
sa Džordžom Čurčom u Harvardu,
for four major traits
za četiri osnovne osobine
genome of the woolly mammoth,
genoma runastog mamuta,
"ancient DNA analysis."
"drevnoj DNK analizi".
into living Asian elephant cell lines,
u ćelijske trake živog azijskog slona,
their proper place thanks to CRISPR.
zahvaljujući CRISPR.
like you did with genetic engineering.
kao u slučaju genetskog inženjeringa.
basically, one allele,
u suštini, jedan alel
of another allele.
Asian elephant germline cells
ćelijskih zametaka azijskog slona
of the traits that you're going for
a surrogate mother,
by conservation biologists,
kako to nazivaju biolozi konzervatori,
curly-trunked, Asian elephant
uvijene surle azijski slon
in the sub-Arctic.
u oblasti subarktika.
to get them there?
they don't like snow, right?"
bigger than people.
you can start a little thing,
počnete s malom loptom,
is tricky business, anyway.
je zeznut posao, u svakom slučaju.
the surrogate Asian elephant mothers?"
od azijskih slonica surogat majki?"
says, "That's all right.
and grow them that way."
i tako ih uzgajati."
next century, maybe,"
možda u sledećem veku",
objavljeno u "Nejčeru"
this week in Nature
in which they've grown a lamb
u kojoj su uzgojili jagnje
its gestation period.
want a world where --
thousands of these things
na hiljade ovih stvorenja
working on the woolly mammoth seriously:
koje ozbiljno rade na runastom mamutu:
we're kind of in the middle;
mi smo nekako u sredini;
that are doing the genetics in the lab;
koji se bave genetikom u laboratoriji;
old scientist named Zimov
starog naučnika po imenu Zimov
who has bought into the system,
koji su prihvatili sistem,
Zimov have been, for 25 years,
već 25 godina
"Parkom iz doba Pleistocena",
"Pleistocene Park,"
of Siberia that is pure tundra.
delu Sibira, koje je čista tundra.
of the animals on the landscape there
jedna stotina životinja
videli smo mnoštvo životinja.
we saw lots of animals.
and then there's the boreal forest.
i još je tu severna šuma.
There's just a few animals there.
Ima svega nekolko životinja tu.
a lot of grazing animals:
they're bringing in some bison,
dovode nešto bizona,
that they used to be.
u kojoj ih je nekad bilo.
the moss, back into grassland.
mahovinu, nazad u pašnjak.
and releasing a lot of carbon dioxide
kopni i oslobađa mnogo ugljen-dioksida
25 square miles,
skromnih 65 kilometara kvadratnh
stabilization thing.
very absorbent to sunlight,
dobro apsorbuje sunčevu svetlost,
when snow is on the ground.
around the North Pole --
čitav Severni pol -
around the North Pole --
oko Severnog pola -
biomes in the world,
bioma na svetu,
Sergey Zimov and Nikita
Sergej Zimov i Nikita
they got for nothing,
koji su dobili za džabe,
"... and they make no dung!"
"... tenkovi ne prave izmet!"
animals do, including mammoths.
uključujući i mamute.
nešto što biolozi očuvanja nazivaju
what conservation biologists call
pandas in China or wherever --
pande u Kini ili bilo gde -
of making life good for that animal
kvalitetnog života za tu životinju
of creatures and plants,
stvorenja i biljaka,
of being self-managing,
gde je on samoodržavajući,
can back off and say,
da odstupe i kažu:
podalje destruktivne invazivne vrste
the destructive invasives,
that you're dreaming of de-extincting
koje sanjaš da vratiš u život
like to move on to
how mammoths might help
o tome kako mamuti mogu da pomognu
tropical rainforest,
o tropskoj kišnoj šumi,
you've thought about a lot.
o kom si mnogo razmišljao.
is one of the most awful curses
to climate change.
klimatskim promenama.
this graph here, or this map.
ovaj grafikon ovde, ovu mapu.
that you get from headlines
koji dobijate iz naslova
šta se još dešava
calls "narrative violation."
naziva "kršenjem narativa".
is master of putting it out there --
je majstor u njegovom kreiranju -
civilization-threatening
of greenhouse gases, especially CO2,
gasova staklene bašte, naročito CO2,
ozbiljnoj smo nevolji.
but it's not the whole story,
than these fragmentary stories.
od tih fragmentarnih priča.
plus water via sunshine.
plus voda putem sunčeve svetlosti.
industrialized greenhouses,
industrijskim staklenicima,
turn that into plant matter.
to pretvaraju i biljnu tvar.
with satellites and other things,
satelitima i drugim stvarima,
over the last 33 years or so,
iz protekle otprilike 33 godine,
leaf action going on.
nazivaju "primarnom proizvodnjom."
what ecologists call "primary production."
prokletim fabrikama na ugalj.
goes up with this.
that is sucking it down
koje ga usisavaju
and goes right back up,
i vraća se nazad,
of what you need to bear in mind,
koji morate da imate na umu,
and engineering climate
i klimatski inženjering
tweaking around with the system
see it's still getting better,
vidite da i dalje napreduje,
udaljite se poluokretom.
back off half a turn.
"Not all green is created equal."
"Nije sve zelenilo ravnopravno."
the magnificence of the rainforest
veličanstvene kišne šume
or grass or something like that.
ili travu ili nešto slično.
se da se svi oblici biljaka umnožavaju,
every form of plant is increasing.
što je izostavljeno u njemu
left out of this study
in the oceans.
dešava u okeanima.
the most important thing.
je verovatno najvažnije od svega.
that create the atmosphere
James Lovelock has been insisting;
je Džejms Lavlok insistirao;
especially of ocean life,
naročito okeanskog života
of too much CO2 in the atmosphere,
prevelike količine CO2 u atmosferi,
the ocean doing with that?
the sea level rise,
porast nivoa mora,
with more global warming.
s više globalnog zagrevanja.
to some of the coral reefs,
nekim koralnim grebenima,
a lot of bleaching from overheating.
izbeljuje od pregrejavanja.
in our previous session on the main stage,
iz naše prethodne sesije na glavnoj sceni,
is worth experimenting with enough
je nešto s čim vredi eksperimentisati,
in the warming aspect of all of this,
u zagrevajućem aspektu svega ovoga,
but usable research,
ali upotrebljivim istraživanjem,
do more than tweak.
da li je potrebno više od štimovanja.
we're going to talk about
o ovome ćemo da razgovaramo
was just published by Yuval Harari.
Juvala Hararija je upravo objavljena.
of humans is to become as gods.
ljudi ona u kojoj postaju poput bogova.
And you've probably finished the book.
I verovatno si pročitao knjigu.
o prilično radikalnom viđenju.
completely remake ourselves
da se preobrazimo
brand-new chapter of history.
radikalno, skroz novo poglavlje istorije.
Zaboravio sam.
likes provoking people.
voli da izaziva ljude.
I'm excited and nervous.
ja sam i uzbuđen i nervozan.
is trying hard to lean towards
daje sve od sebe da naginje ka:
part of me is saying,
deo mene govori:
be a little bit careful
da budemo pažljiviji
isn't it, for TED?
zar ne, za TED?
a little bit schizophrenic.
za blago stanje šizofrenije.
statement that you made
zapanjujućom izjavom
Whole Earth Catalog,
and might as well get good at it."
i bolje da postanemo dobri u tome."
you've upgraded that statement.
is that documentation
je da je dokumentovanje
from somebody --
it hasn't forgiven me yet!
neki mi još uvek nisu oprostili.
when somebody quoted it,
kad ju je neko citirao,
what you originally wrote
što si prvobitno napisao
and might as well get used to it.'"
i bolje da se naviknemo na to.'"
the stories we tell ourselves
priče koje pričamo sebi
da se to raščisti.
i bolje da postanemo dobri u tome",
and might as well get good at it,"
naslovljenoj "Disciplina čitave Zemlje:
called "Whole Earth Discipline:
u suštini sam govorio da smo kao bogovi
basically saying that we are as gods
i moramo postati dobri u tome.
and have to get good at it.
the psychological reaction
jer je psihološka reakcija
as you talk about geoengineering
to da bi ljudi trebalo da budu bogovi -
is that humans should be gods --
narrative about hubris.
u vezi sa hubrisom.
really sure of yourself,
cautionary tale to always have at hand.
koju bi uvek trebalo imati pri ruci.
I've kept for myself is:
koju čuvam za sebe glasi:
I am dead wrong about.
sam potpuno u krivu.
with scientists these days,
looks pretty good,
of not only suspicions
away from fake news.
da izbegnete lažne vesti.
of this just for the environment:
ovoga samo na okolinu:
is that, whether we like it or not,
ta da, svidelo nam se ili ne,
of what happens on planets,
toga šta se dešava na planeti,
doing it intentionally.
da počnemo da to radimo namerno.
getting good at being a god?
biti dobar kao bog?
or systems we can nudge and play with?
ili sistemi za poguravanje i igru?
to Buckminster Fuller
and anthropologist and biologist
i antropolog i biolog
basically look at themselves.
u suštini posmatraju sebe.
you want to always be looking at things.
kako uvek želite da posmatrate stvari.
approach to geoengineering
geoinženjeringu mi se sviđa
was talking about earlier --
govorio ranije -
really incrementally,
see how it responds,
vidite kako reaguje,
that people say, quite rightly,
da ljudi s pravom kažu:
how the climate system works.
kako klimatski sistem funkcioniše.
you don't understand."
koji ne razumete."
applies to the human body,
odnosi na ljudsko telo,
and we're kind of glad that it has."
i nama je nekako drago da je tako."
that is so large and complex
koji je tako velik i složen
an anti-hubristic approach.
da ideš napred.
and dialogue and all these other things
i dijalog i sve te druge stvari
about earlier with Sebastian [Thrun].
od Sebastijana Truna.
is looking for social license,
traga za društvenom dozvolom,
that I think is a good one,
koja je, mislim, dobra,
problematic, deep issues
problematična, duboka pitanja
paying close attention
da obrate strogu pažnju
as it's going forward,
kako budu napredovali,
as it's going forward --
kako stvari budu napredovale -
which is fantastic --
a to je sjajno -
that has worked pretty well so far.
koji je do sad veoma dobro funkcionisao.
and I are optimistic is we read
i ja optimistični je zato što smo čitali
"The Better Angels of Our Nature,"
"Bolji anđeli naše prirode",
of: things are capable of getting better,
osećaju: stvari mogu da se poprave,
that happen and apply those further.
i proširite im primenu.
u tom optimističnom tonu
on that optimistic note,
are willing to challenge yourself
da uvek izazivaš sebe
allowing yourself to be too certain
ne dopustimo sebi da budemo suviše sigurni
and inspiring, actually,
i inspirativno, zapravo,
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Stewart Brand - Environmentalist, futuristSince the counterculture '60s, Stewart Brand has been creating our internet-worked world. Now, with biotech accelerating four times faster than digital technology, Stewart Brand has a bold new plan ...
Why you should listen
With biotech accelerating four times faster than digital technology, the revival of extinct species is becoming possible. Stewart Brand plans to not only bring species back but restore them to the wild.
Brand is already a legend in the tech industry for things he’s created: the Whole Earth Catalog, The WELL, the Global Business Network, the Long Now Foundation, and the notion that “information wants to be free.” Now Brand, a lifelong environmentalist, wants to re-create -- or “de-extinct” -- a few animals that’ve disappeared from the planet.
Granted, resurrecting the woolly mammoth using ancient DNA may sound like mad science. But Brand’s Revive and Restore project has an entirely rational goal: to learn what causes extinctions so we can protect currently endangered species, preserve genetic and biological diversity, repair depleted ecosystems, and essentially “undo harm that humans have caused in the past.”
Stewart Brand | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.
Why you should listen
Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.
Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.
Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.
Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.
This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.
He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.
In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.
Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com