TEDGlobal 2013
Elizabeth Loftus: How reliable is your memory?
Elizabeth Loftus: Fikcija sjećanja
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Psihologinja Elizabeth Loftus proučava sjećanja. Preciznije, proučava lažna sjećanja kada se ljudi ili sjećaju stvari koje se nisu dogodile ili ih se sjećaju drugačije nego što su bile. Češće je nego što mislite i Loftus dijeli neke uznemirujuće priče i statistike te podiže bitna etička pitanja kojih bismo se svi trebali sjetiti razmotriti.
Elizabeth Loftus - False memories scholar
Memory-manipulation expert Elizabeth Loftus explains how our memories might not be what they seem -- and how implanted memories can have real-life repercussions. Full bio
Memory-manipulation expert Elizabeth Loftus explains how our memories might not be what they seem -- and how implanted memories can have real-life repercussions. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I'd like to tell you about a legal case that I worked on
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Želim vam reći o pravnom slučaju na kojem sam radila
00:16
involving a man named Steve Titus.
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koji uključuje čovjeka pod imenom Steve Titus.
00:20
Titus was a restaurant manager.
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Titus je bio voditelj restorana.
00:23
He was 31 years old, he lived in Seattle, Washington,
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Imao je 31 godinu, živio je u Seattleu u Washingtonu,
00:27
he was engaged to Gretchen,
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bio je zaručen za Gretchen,
00:29
about to be married, she was the love of his life.
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trebao se ženiti, bila je ljubav njegova života.
00:32
And one night, the couple went out
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I jedne večeri par je izašao van
00:34
for a romantic restaurant meal.
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na romantičnu večeru u restoran.
00:37
They were on their way home,
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Vraćali su se kući
00:39
and they were pulled over by a police officer.
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i zaustavio ih je policajac.
00:42
You see, Titus' car sort of resembled
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Znate, Titusov auto je nekako sličio
00:45
a car that was driven earlier in the evening
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autu kojeg je ranije te noći vozio
00:49
by a man who raped a female hitchhiker,
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čovjek koji je silovao autostopericu
00:52
and Titus kind of resembled that rapist.
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i Titus je nekako ličio na tog silovatelja.
00:56
So the police took a picture of Titus,
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Tako je policija uslikala Titusa,
00:59
they put it in a photo lineup,
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stavili su sliku u listu,
01:01
they later showed it to the victim,
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koju su kasnije pokazali žrtvi
01:03
and she pointed to Titus' photo.
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i ona je pokazala na Titusovu sliku.
01:06
She said, "That one's the closest."
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Rekla je:"Taj je najbliže."
01:09
The police and the prosecution proceeded with a trial,
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Policija i optužba su nastavili sa suđenjem
01:13
and when Steve Titus was put on trial for rape,
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i kad je Steveu Titusu suđeno za silovanje,
01:16
the rape victim got on the stand
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žrtva silovanja je svjedočila:
01:19
and said, "I'm absolutely positive that's the man."
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"Apsolutno sam sigurna da je to taj čovjek."
01:23
And Titus was convicted.
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I Titus je osuđen.
01:26
He proclaimed his innocence,
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Oglasio se nedužnim,
01:28
his family screamed at the jury,
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njegova obitelj je vikala na porotu,
01:30
his fiancée collapsed on the floor sobbing,
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njegova zaručnica se srušila na pod plačući
01:33
and Titus is taken away to jail.
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i Titus je zatvoren.
01:37
So what would you do at this point?
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Što biste učinili u tom trenutku?
01:40
What would you do?
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Što biste napravili?
01:42
Well, Titus lost complete faith in the legal system,
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Pa, Titus je izgubio potpuno povjerenje u pravni sustav,
01:46
and yet he got an idea.
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ali je opet dobio ideju.
01:48
He called up the local newspaper,
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Nazvao je lokalne novine,
01:50
he got the interest of an investigative journalist,
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dobio pažnju istražnog novinara
01:53
and that journalist actually found the real rapist,
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i taj novinar je zapravo našao pravog silovatelja,
01:58
a man who ultimately confessed to this rape,
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čovjeka koji je na kraju priznao to silovanje,
02:01
a man who was thought to have committed 50 rapes
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čovjek za kojeg se mislilo da je počinio 50 silovanja
02:05
in that area,
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u tom području,
02:06
and when this information was given to the judge,
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i kad je ta informacija dana sucu,
02:09
the judge set Titus free.
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sudac je oslobodio Titusa.
02:12
And really, that's where this case should have ended.
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I stvarno, to je mjesto gdje je taj slučaj trebao završiti.
02:16
It should have been over.
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Trebalo je biti gotovo.
02:17
Titus should have thought of this as a horrible year,
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Titus je trebao razmišljati o tom kao o groznoj godini,
02:20
a year of accusation and trial, but over.
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godini optužaba i suđenja, ali gotovoj.
02:24
It didn't end that way.
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Nije završilo tako.
02:26
Titus was so bitter.
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Titus je bio jako ogorčen.
02:28
He'd lost his job. He couldn't get it back.
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Izgubio je posao. Nije ga mogao dobiti nazad.
02:31
He lost his fiancée.
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Izgubio je zaručnicu.
02:33
She couldn't put up with his persistent anger.
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Nije mogla podnijeti njegovu stalnu ljutnju.
02:36
He lost his entire savings,
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Izgubio je svu svoju ušteđevinu
02:38
and so he decided to file a lawsuit
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i odlučio je podnijeti tužbu
02:41
against the police and others whom he felt
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protiv policije i drugih za koje je smatrao
02:43
were responsible for his suffering.
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da su odgovorni za njegovu patnju.
02:45
And that's when I really started working on this case,
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I to je kad sam stvarno počela raditi na ovom slučaju,
02:50
trying to figure out
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pokušavajući shvatiti
02:52
how did that victim go from
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kako je ta žrtva otišla od
02:54
"That one's the closest"
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"Taj je najbliže"
02:56
to "I'm absolutely positive that's the guy."
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do "Apsolutno sam sigurna da je to taj tip".
03:00
Well, Titus was consumed with his civil case.
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Pa, Titus je bio obuzet svojim građanskim slučajem.
03:04
He spent every waking moment thinking about it,
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Provodio je svaki budni trenutak razmišljajući o tom
03:07
and just days before he was to have his day in court,
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samo dane prije nego je trebao imati svoj dan na sudu,
03:11
he woke up in the morning,
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probudio se ujutro,
03:13
doubled over in pain,
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savio od boli
03:15
and died of a stress-related heart attack.
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i umro od srčanog napadaja povezanog sa stresom.
03:18
He was 35 years old.
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Imao je samo 35 godina.
03:21
So I was asked to work on Titus' case
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Zamoljena sam da radim na Titusovom slučaju
03:26
because I'm a psychological scientist.
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jer sam psihološki znanstvenik.
03:28
I study memory. I've studied memory for decades.
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Proučavam sjećanja. Proučavala sam sjećanja desetljećima.
03:32
And if I meet somebody on an airplane --
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I ako upoznam nekog u avionu -
03:35
this happened on the way over to Scotland --
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to se dogodilo na putu za Škotsku -
03:37
if I meet somebody on an airplane,
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ako upoznam nekoga u avionu
03:39
and we ask each other, "What do you do? What do you do?"
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i pitamo jedno drugo "Čime se bavite? Što radite?"
03:42
and I say "I study memory,"
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i ja kažem "Proučavam sjećanja,"
03:44
they usually want to tell me how they have trouble remembering names,
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oni mi inače žele reći kako imaju problema s pamćenjem imena
03:47
or they've got a relative who's got Alzheimer's
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ili imaju rođaka koji ima Alzheimerovu
03:50
or some kind of memory problem,
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ili neki problem sa sjećanjem,
03:52
but I have to tell them
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ali im moram reći
03:54
I don't study when people forget.
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da ne proučavam kad ljudi zaborave.
03:58
I study the opposite: when they remember,
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Proučavam suprotno: kad se sjete,
04:01
when they remember things that didn't happen
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kad se sjete stvari koje se nisu dogodile
04:03
or remember things that were different
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ili se sjete stvari koje su drugačije
04:05
from the way they really were.
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od onog kakve su stvarno bile.
04:07
I study false memories.
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Proučavam lažna sjećanja.
04:12
Unhappily, Steve Titus is not the only person
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Na nesreću, Steve Titus nije jedina osoba
04:16
to be convicted based on somebody's false memory.
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koja je bila osuđena na temelju nečijeg lažnog sjećanja.
04:21
In one project in the United States,
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U jednom projektu u Sjedinjenim Državama,
04:24
information has been gathered
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skupljene su informacije
04:26
on 300 innocent people,
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o 300 nevinih ljudi,
04:30
300 defendants who were convicted of crimes they didn't do.
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300 branjenika koji su osuđeni za zločin koji nisu počinili.
04:34
They spent 10, 20, 30 years in prison for these crimes,
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Proveli su 10, 20, 30 godina u zatvoru za te zločine
04:39
and now DNA testing has proven
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i sada je DNK testiranje dokazalo
04:42
that they are actually innocent.
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da su zapravo nevini.
04:45
And when those cases have been analyzed,
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I kad su ti slučajevi analizirani,
04:47
three quarters of them
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tri četvrtine njih
04:49
are due to faulty memory, faulty eyewitness memory.
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su zbog lošeg pamćenja,lošeg pamćenja svjedoka.
04:55
Well, why?
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Pa, zašto?
04:56
Like the jurors who convicted those innocent people
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Poput porote koje su osudile te nevine ljude
05:00
and the jurors who convicted Titus,
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i porote koja je osudila Titusa,
05:02
many people believe that memory
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mnogi ljudi vjeruju da sjećanje
05:04
works like a recording device.
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funkcionira poput stroja za snimanje.
05:06
You just record the information,
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Samo snimite informaciju,
05:08
then you call it up and play it back
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onda ju pozovete i pustite
05:11
when you want to answer questions or identify images.
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kad želite odgovoriti na pitanja ili identificirati slike.
05:14
But decades of work in psychology
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Ali desetljeća rada u psihologiji
05:16
has shown that this just isn't true.
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su pokazala da to jednostavno nije istina.
05:20
Our memories are constructive.
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Naša sjećanja su konstruktivna.
05:22
They're reconstructive.
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Ona su rekonstruktivna.
05:24
Memory works a little bit more like a Wikipedia page:
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Sjećanje radi otprilike kao i stranica Wikipedije:
05:27
You can go in there and change it, but so can other people.
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Možete otići tamo i promijeniti ju, ali isto tako mogu i drugi ljudi.
05:32
I first started studying this constructive memory process
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Započela sam proučavati taj proces konstruktivnih sjećanja
05:37
in the 1970s.
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1970-ih.
05:40
I did my experiments that involved showing people
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Radila sam eksperimente koji su uključivali pokazivanje ljudima
05:44
simulated crimes and accidents
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simulirane zločine i nesreće
05:47
and asking them questions about what they remember.
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i ispitujući ih o tom čega se sjećaju.
05:50
In one study, we showed people a simulated accident
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U jednoj studiji, pokazali smo ljudima simuliranu nesreću
05:54
and we asked people,
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i pitali ih,
05:56
how fast were the cars going when they hit each other?
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koliko brzo su išli auti kad su udarili jedan drugog?
05:58
And we asked other people,
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I pitali smo druge ljude
06:00
how fast were the cars going when they smashed into each other?
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koliko su brzo išli auti kad su se smrskali jedan o drugoga.
06:04
And if we asked the leading "smashed" question,
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I ako bismo pitali navodljivo "smrskano" pitanje,
06:07
the witnesses told us the cars were going faster,
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svjedoci bi rekli da su auti išli brže,
06:10
and moreover, that leading "smashed" question
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štoviše, to navodljivo "smrskano" pitanje
06:14
caused people to be more likely to tell us
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uzrokovalo je da su ljudi skloniji reći nam
06:17
that they saw broken glass in the accident scene
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da su vidjeli razbijeno staklo u sceni nesreće
06:20
when there wasn't any broken glass at all.
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u kojoj uopće nije bilo nikakvog razbijenog stakla.
06:24
In another study, we showed a simulated accident
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U drugoj studiji, pokazali smo simuliranu nesreću
06:27
where a car went through an intersection with a stop sign,
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gdje je auto prošao križanje sa stop znakom
06:30
and if we asked a question that insinuated it was a yield sign,
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i ako bismo pitali pitanje koje je insinuiralo da je to bio znak prednosti prolaza,
06:35
many witnesses told us they remember seeing a yield sign
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mnogi svjedoci bi nam rekli da se sjećaju da su vidjeli znak prednosti prolaza
06:39
at the intersection, not a stop sign.
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na raskrižju, a ne stop znak.
06:43
And you might be thinking, well, you know,
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I vjerojatno razmišljate, pa, znate,
06:45
these are filmed events,
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to su snimljeni događaji,
06:46
they are not particularly stressful.
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nisu pretjerano stresni.
06:48
Would the same kind of mistakes be made
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Bi li iste greške bile napravljene
06:51
with a really stressful event?
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s jako stresnim događajem?
06:54
In a study we published just a few months ago,
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U studiji koju smo objavili prije par mjeseci,
06:57
we have an answer to this question,
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imamo odgovor na ovo pitanje
06:59
because what was unusual about this study
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jer što je bilo neobično kod ove studije
07:02
is we arranged for people to have a very stressful experience.
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je da smo organizirali da ljudi imaju jako stresno iskustvo.
07:07
The subjects in this study
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Subjekti u ovoj studiji
07:10
were members of the U.S. military
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bili su članovi američke vojske
07:12
who were undergoing a harrowing training exercise
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koji su prolazili naporne trening vježbe
07:17
to teach them what it's going to be like for them
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koje bi ih trebale naučiti kako će im biti
07:19
if they are ever captured as prisoners of war.
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ako ikad budu ratni zarobljenici.
07:23
And as part of this training exercise,
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I kao dio tih vježbi,
07:26
these soldiers are interrogated in an aggressive,
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ti vojnici su bili ispitivani na agresivan,
07:29
hostile, physically abusive fashion for 30 minutes
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neprijateljski i fizički zlostavljački način 30 minuta
07:34
and later on they have to try to identify
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i nakon tog trebaju pokušati identificirati
07:37
the person who conducted that interrogation.
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osobu koja je vodila ispitivanje.
07:40
And when we feed them suggestive information
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I kad ih nahranimo sugestivnim informacijama
07:44
that insinuates it's a different person,
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koje insinuiraju da je druga osoba,
07:47
many of them misidentify their interrogator,
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mnogi od njih krivo identificiraju svog ispitivača,
07:51
often identifying someone who doesn't even remotely
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često identificirajući nekog tko nimalo
07:55
resemble the real interrogator.
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ne sliči na pravog ispitivača.
07:58
And so what these studies are showing
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Ono što ove studije pokazuju
08:00
is that when you feed people misinformation
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jest da kad ljude hranite dezinformacijama
08:04
about some experience that they may have had,
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o nekom iskustva koje su možda imali,
08:07
you can distort or contaminate or change their memory.
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možete iskriviti, ili zagaditi ili izmijeniti njihovo sjećanje.
08:13
Well out there in the real world,
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U pravom svijetu,
08:15
misinformation is everywhere.
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dezinformacije su posvuda.
08:18
We get misinformation
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Dobivamo dezinformacije
08:19
not only if we're questioned in a leading way,
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samo ako smo ispitivani na navodljiv način,
08:22
but if we talk to other witnesses
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ali ako pričamo s drugim svjedocima
08:25
who might consciously or inadvertently feed us
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koji bi mogli svjesno ili nenamjerno hraniti nas
08:28
some erroneous information,
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nekim krivim informacijama
08:30
or if we see media coverage about some event we might have experienced,
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ili ako vidimo medijsku objavu o nekom događaju koji smo iskusili,
08:35
all of these provide the opportunity
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sve to može pružiti priliku
08:37
for this kind of contamination of our memory.
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za takvu vrstu zagađenja našeg sjećanja.
08:42
In the 1990s, we began to see
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U 1990-ima, počeli smo viđati
08:46
an even more extreme kind of memory problem.
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sve ekstremnije vrste problema sa sjećanjem.
08:50
Some patients were going into therapy with one problem --
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Neki pacijenti su išli na terapiju s jednim problemom -
08:53
maybe they had depression, an eating disorder --
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možda su imali depresiju, poremećaj prehrane -
08:56
and they were coming out of therapy
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- i izlazili su iz terapije
08:59
with a different problem.
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s drugačijim problemom.
09:02
Extreme memories for horrific brutalizations,
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Ekstremna sjećanja za grozne brutalizacije,
09:05
sometimes in satanic rituals,
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ponekad satanskih rituala,
09:07
sometimes involving really bizarre and unusual elements.
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ponekad uključujući bizarne i neobične elemente.
09:12
One woman came out of psychotherapy
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Jedna žena je došla iz psihoterapije
09:15
believing that she'd endured years
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vjerujući da je izdržala godine
09:17
of ritualistic abuse, where she was forced into a pregnancy
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ritualističkog zlostavljanja, gdje je siljena u trudnoću
09:21
and that the baby was cut from her belly.
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i da je dijete izrezano iz njenog trbuha.
09:24
But there were no physical scars
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Ali nije bilo fizičkih ožiljaka
09:26
or any kind of physical evidence
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ili bilo kakvog oblika fizičkog dokaza
09:28
that could have supported her story.
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koji bi mogli poduprijeti njenu priču.
09:31
And when I began looking into these cases,
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I kad sam počela provjeravati te slučajeve,
09:34
I was wondering,
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pitala sam se,
09:35
where do these bizarre memories come from?
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otkud dolaze ta bizarna sjećanja?
09:38
And what I found is that most of these situations
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I što sam saznala je da većina ovih situacija
09:42
involved some particular form of psychotherapy.
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uključuje neku vrstu psihoterapije.
09:47
And so I asked,
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I tako sam pitala,
09:49
were some of the things going on in this psychotherapy --
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jesu li neke od stvari koje se događaju na psihoterapiji -
09:52
like the imagination exercises
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poput vježbi mašte
09:55
or dream interpretation,
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ili tumačenja snova,
09:57
or in some cases hypnosis,
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ili u nekim slučajevima hipnoze,
10:00
or in some cases exposure to false information --
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ili u nekim slučajevima izloženost lažnim informacijama -
10:03
were these leading these patients
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jesu li one navodile pacijente
10:06
to develop these very bizarre,
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da razviju ova jako bizarna,
10:09
unlikely memories?
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nevjerojatna sjećanja?
10:12
And I designed some experiments
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I osmislila sam neke eksperimente
10:14
to try to study the processes that were being used
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kako bih pokušala proučiti procese koji su se koristili
10:19
in this psychotherapy so I could study
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u psihoterapiji kako bih mogla proučiti
10:22
the development of these very rich false memories.
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razvoj tih vrlo bogato lažnih sjećanja.
10:26
In one of the first studies we did,
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U jednoj od prvih studija koje smo napravili,
10:28
we used suggestion,
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koristili smo sugestiju,
10:30
a method inspired by the psychotherapy we saw in these cases,
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metodu inspiriranu psihoterapijom koju smo vidjeli u ovim slučajevima,
10:34
we used this kind of suggestion
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koristili smo takav oblik sugestije
10:36
and planted a false memory
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i posadili lažno sjećanje
10:38
that when you were a kid, five or six years old,
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da kad ste bili dijete, pet ili šest godina stari,
10:41
you were lost in a shopping mall.
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bili ste izgubljeni u trgovačkom centru.
10:44
You were frightened. You were crying.
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Bili ste prestrašeni. Plakali ste.
10:46
You were ultimately rescued by an elderly person
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Bili ste na kraju spašeni od strane starije osobe
10:49
and reunited with the family.
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i ujedinjeni s obitelji.
10:51
And we succeeded in planting this memory
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I uspjeli smo u usađivanju tih sjećanja
10:53
in the minds of about a quarter of our subjects.
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u umove otprilike četvrtine naših subjekata.
10:57
And you might be thinking, well,
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I možda si mislite, pa,
10:59
that's not particularly stressful.
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to nije pretjerano stresno.
11:02
But we and other investigators have planted
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Ali mi i drugi istražitelji smo posadili
11:05
rich false memories of things that were
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bogata lažna sjećanja o stvarima koje su bile
11:08
much more unusual and much more stressful.
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mnogo neobičnije i puno stresnije.
11:11
So in a study done in Tennessee,
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Tako u studiji rađenoj u Tennesseeju,
11:13
researchers planted the false memory
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istraživači su posadili lažno sjećanje
11:16
that when you were a kid, you nearly drowned
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da ste se gotovo utopili kad ste bili dijete
11:18
and had to be rescued by a life guard.
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te da vas je morao spasiti spasilac.
11:21
And in a study done in Canada,
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I u studiji rađenoj u Kanadi,
11:23
researchers planted the false memory
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istraživači su posadili lažno sjećanje
11:25
that when you were a kid,
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da, kad ste bili dijete,
11:27
something as awful as being attacked by a vicious animal
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nešto grozno poput napada opasne životinje
11:30
happened to you,
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vam se dogodilo,
11:32
succeeding with about half of their subjects.
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uspijevajući s otprilike pola svojih subjekata.
11:35
And in a study done in Italy,
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I jedna studija rađena u Italiji,
11:38
researchers planted the false memory,
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istraživači su posadili lažno sjećanje,
11:40
when you were a kid, you witnessed demonic possession.
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kad ste bili dijete, da ste svjedočili demonskom opsjedanju.
11:45
I do want to add that it might seem
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Želim dodati da se može činiti
11:48
like we are traumatizing these experimental subjects
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kao da traumatiziramo eksperimentalne subjekte
11:51
in the name of science,
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u ime znanosti,
11:53
but our studies have gone through thorough evaluation
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ali naša studija je prošla kroz detaljnu evaluaciju
11:58
by research ethics boards
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odbora za istraživačku etiku
12:00
that have made the decision
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koji su donijeli odluku
12:02
that the temporary discomfort that some
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da je privremena nelagoda koju neki
12:05
of these subjects might experience in these studies
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od ovih subjekata mogu iskusiti u ovim studijama
12:08
is outweighed by the importance of this problem
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prevagnuta važnošću ovog problema
12:12
for understanding memory processes
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za shvaćanje procesa sjećanja
12:15
and the abuse of memory that is going on
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i zloupotrebe sjećanja koje se događa
12:18
in some places in the world.
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u nekim mjestima u svijetu.
12:22
Well, to my surprise,
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Pa, na moje iznenađenje,
12:25
when I published this work and began to speak out
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kad sam objavila taj rad i počela govoriti
12:28
against this particular brand of psychotherapy,
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protiv ove vrste psihoterapije,
12:32
it created some pretty bad problems for me:
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stvorio je neke poprilično loše probleme za mene:
12:36
hostilities, primarily from the repressed memory therapists,
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neprijateljstvo, prvenstveno od strane uvrijeđenih terapeuta koji rade na sjećanjima,
12:41
who felt under attack,
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koji su se osjećali napadnuti,
12:43
and by the patients whom they had influenced.
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i od strane pacijenata na koje su utjecali.
12:46
I had sometimes armed guards at speeches
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Imala sam ponekad naoružane zaštitare na govorima
12:49
that I was invited to give,
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gdje sam pozvana govoriti,
12:51
people trying to drum up letter-writing campaigns to get me fired.
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ljudi su pokušavali nagovoriti ljude na kampanje pisanja pisama da dobijem otkaz.
12:55
But probably the worst
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Ali je vjerojatno najgore
12:57
was I suspected that a woman
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bilo što sam sumnjala da je jedna žena
13:00
was innocent of abuse
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bila krivo optužena za zlostavljanje
13:02
that was being claimed by her grown daughter.
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kako je tvrdila njena odrasla kćer.
13:05
She accused her mother of sexual abuse
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Optužila je svoju majku za seksualno zlostavljanje
13:09
based on a repressed memory.
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utemeljeno na potisnutom sjećanju.
13:11
And this accusing daughter had actually allowed her story
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I ta optužujuća kćer je zapravo dopustila da se njena priča
13:13
to be filmed and presented in public places.
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snimi i predstavi na javnim mjestima.
13:17
I was suspicious of this story,
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Bila sam sumnjičava u vezi s tom pričom
13:19
and so I started to investigate,
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pa sam tako počela istraživati
13:22
and eventually found information that convinced me
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i na kraju saznala informaciju koja me uvjerila
13:26
that this mother was innocent.
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da je ta majka bila nedužna.
13:28
I published an exposé on the case,
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Objavila sam ekspoze o tom slučaju
13:31
and a little while later, the accusing daughter
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i malo kasnije je optužujuća kćer
13:35
filed a lawsuit.
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pokrenula parnicu.
13:36
Even though I'd never mentioned her name,
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Iako nikad nisam spomenula njeno ime,
13:39
she sued me for defamation and invasion of privacy.
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tužila me za klevetu i invaziju privatnosti.
13:43
And I went through nearly five years
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I provela sam skoro pet godina
13:46
of dealing with this messy, unpleasant litigation,
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noseći se s tom neurednom, neugodnom parnicom,
13:52
but finally, finally, it was over and I could really
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ali napokon, napokon, završilo je i mogla sam se stvarno
13:56
get back to my work.
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vratiti svom poslu.
13:58
In the process, however, I became part
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U tom procesu, ipak, postala sam dio
14:01
of a disturbing trend in America
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uznemiravajućeg trenda u Americi
14:04
where scientists are being sued
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gdje su znanstvenici bili tuženi
14:06
for simply speaking out on matters of great public controversy.
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za jednostavno govorenje o temama koje su bile dio velike javne polemike.
14:10
When I got back to my work, I asked this question:
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Kad sam se vratila svom radu, pitala sam ovo pitanje:
14:14
if I plant a false memory in your mind,
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ako posadim lažno sjećanje u vaš um,
14:16
does it have repercussions?
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ima li to posljedice?
14:18
Does it affect your later thoughts,
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Utječe li na vaše daljnje misli,
14:20
your later behaviors?
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na vaše daljnje ponašanje?
14:22
Our first study planted a false memory
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Naša je prva studija posadila lažno sjećanje
14:24
that you got sick as a child eating certain foods:
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da ste se razboljeli kao dijete jedući određenu hranu:
14:27
hard-boiled eggs, dill pickles, strawberry ice cream.
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tvrdo kuhana jaja, kisele krastavce, sladoled od jagode.
14:30
And we found that once we planted this false memory,
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I saznali smo da nakon što smo posadili to lažno sjećanje,
14:34
people didn't want to eat the foods as much
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ljudi nisu htjeli jesti hranu kao prije
14:36
at an outdoor picnic.
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na pikniku.
14:38
The false memories aren't necessarily bad or unpleasant.
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Lažno sjećanje nije nužno loše ili neugodno.
14:42
If we planted a warm, fuzzy memory
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Ako bismo posadili toplo, ugodno sjećanje
14:44
involving a healthy food like asparagus,
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koje uključuje zdravu hranu poput šparoga,
14:48
we could get people to want to eat asparagus more.
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mogli bismo navesti ljude da žele jesti više šparoga.
14:51
And so what these studies are showing
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I tako, ono što ove studije pokazuju
14:53
is that you can plant false memories
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jest da možete posaditi lažna sjećanja
14:55
and they have repercussions
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i da ona imaju posljedice
14:57
that affect behavior long after the memories take hold.
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koje utječu na ponašanja dugo nakon što se sama sjećanja stvore.
15:02
Well, along with this ability
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Pa, zajedno s tom sposobnošću
15:04
to plant memories and control behavior
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da se posade sjećanja i kontrolira ponašanje
15:07
obviously come some important ethical issues,
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očito dolaze neki bitni etički problemi,
15:11
like, when should we use this mind technology?
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poput, kad bismo trebali koristiti tu umnu tehnologiju?
15:15
And should we ever ban its use?
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I bismo li trebali ikada zabraniti njezinu upotrebu?
15:18
Therapists can't ethically plant false memories
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Terapeuti ne mogu etički posaditi lažna sjećanja
15:21
in the mind of their patients
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u umove svojih pacijenata
15:23
even if it would help the patient,
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čak i kad bi to pomoglo pacijentu,
15:25
but there's nothing to stop a parent
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ali ne postoji ništa što bi zaustavilo roditelja
15:27
from trying this out on their overweight or obese teenager.
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da iskuša ovo na svom gojaznom ili pretilom tinejdžeru.
15:31
And when I suggested this publicly,
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I kad sam predložila ovo javno,
15:34
it created an outcry again.
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stvorilo je opet negodovanje.
15:37
"There she goes. She's advocating that parents lie to their children."
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"Eto nje. Zagovara da roditelji lažu svojoj djeci."
15:41
Hello, Santa Claus. (Laughter)
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Bok, Djede Mraze. (Smijeh)
15:43
I mean, another way to think about this is,
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Mislim, drugačiji način da se razmišlja o tom je,
15:53
which would you rather have,
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što biste radije imali,
15:55
a kid with obesity, diabetes, shortened lifespan,
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dijete s pretilosti, dijabetesom, skraćenim životnim vijekom,
15:58
all the things that go with it,
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svim stvarima koje idu s tim,
16:00
or a kid with one little extra bit of false memory?
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ili dijete s malenim viškom lažnog sjećanja?
16:03
I know what I would choose for a kid of mine.
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Znam što bih ja odabrala za svoje dijete.
16:06
But maybe my work has made me different from most people.
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Ali me možda moj rad učinio drugačijom od većine ljudi.
16:10
Most people cherish their memories,
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Većina ljudi cijeni svoja sjećanja,
16:12
know that they represent their identity,
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znaju da predstavljaju njihov identitet,
16:14
who they are, where they came from.
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tko su, otkud su došli.
16:16
And I appreciate that. I feel that way too.
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I ja cijenim to. Isto se tako osjećam.
16:19
But I know from my work
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Ali znam od svog rada
16:21
how much fiction is already in there.
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koliko fikcije već postoji.
16:26
If I've learned anything from these decades
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Ako sam išta naučila od ovih desetljeća
16:28
of working on these problems, it's this:
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radeći na tim problemima, to je ovo:
16:31
just because somebody tells you something
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samo zato što vam netko kaže nešto
16:33
and they say it with confidence,
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i to vam kažu samouvjereno,
16:35
just because they say it with lots of detail,
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samo zato što to kažu s puno detalja,
16:37
just because they express emotion when they say it,
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samo zato što izraze osjećaje kad to kažu,
16:40
it doesn't mean that it really happened.
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to ne znači da se zbilja dogodilo.
16:43
We can't reliably distinguish true memories from false memories.
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Ne možemo sa sigurnošću razlikovati istinita sjećanja od lažnih sjećanja.
16:47
We need independent corroboration.
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Trebamo nezavisnu potvrdu.
16:51
Such a discovery has made me more tolerant
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Takvo otkriće me učinilo tolerantnijom
16:54
of the everyday memory mistakes
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prema svakodnevnim pogreškama sjećanja
16:56
that my friends and family members make.
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koje moji prijatelji i članovi obitelji počine.
16:59
Such a discovery might have saved Steve Titus,
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Takvo je otkriće moglo spasiti Stevea Titusa,
17:03
the man whose whole future was snatched away
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čovjeka čija je budućnost ugrabljena
17:07
by a false memory.
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od strane lažnog sjećanja.
17:09
But meanwhile, we should all keep in mind,
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Ali u međuvremenu, trebali bismo svi imati na umu,
17:12
we'd do well to,
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trebali bismo,
17:14
that memory, like liberty,
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da je sjećanje, kao i sloboda,
17:18
is a fragile thing.
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krhka stvar.
17:21
Thank you. Thank you.
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Hvala vam. Hvala vam.
17:24
Thank you. (Applause)
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Hvala vam. (Pljesak)
17:27
Thanks very much. (Applause)
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Hvala puno. (Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Elizabeth Loftus - False memories scholarMemory-manipulation expert Elizabeth Loftus explains how our memories might not be what they seem -- and how implanted memories can have real-life repercussions.
Why you should listen
Elizabeth Loftus altered the course of legal history by revealing that memory is not only unreliable, but also mutable. Since the 1970s, Loftus has created an impressive body of scholarly work and has appeared as an expert witness in hundreds of courtrooms, bolstering the cases of defendants facing criminal charges based on eyewitness testimony, and debunking “recovered memory” theories popular at the time, as in her book The Myth of Repressed Memory: False Memories and Allegations of Sexual Abuse (with Katherine Ketcham).
Since then, Loftus has dedicated herself to discovering how false memories can affect our daily lives, leading her to surprising therapeutic applications for memory modification -- including controlling obesity by implanting patients with preferences for healthy foods.
Elizabeth Loftus | Speaker | TED.com