TED2013
Mary Lou Jepsen: Could future devices read images from our brains?
Mary Lou Jepsen: Hoće li uređaji budućnosti čitati slike iz naših mozgova?
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Kao stručnjak u vrhunskim digitalnim zaslonima, Mary Lou Jepsen proučava kako prikazati naše najkreativnije ideje na ekranu. I kao pacijent kojem je operiran mozak, ona želi znati više o neuralnoj aktivnosti koja obavija izume, kreativnost, misli. Miješa ove dvije strasti u zaista fascinantnom govoru o dvije najnovije studije o mozgu koje bi nam mogle pomoći u razumijevanju kako (i što) mislimo.
Mary Lou Jepsen - Inventor, entrepreneur, optical physicist
Mary Lou Jepsen pushes the edges of what's possible in optics and physics, to make new types of devices, leading teams and working with huge factories that can ship vast volumes of these strange, new things. Full bio
Mary Lou Jepsen pushes the edges of what's possible in optics and physics, to make new types of devices, leading teams and working with huge factories that can ship vast volumes of these strange, new things. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I had brain surgery 18 years ago,
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Bila sam na operaciji mozga
prije 18 godina,
prije 18 godina,
00:15
and since that time, brain science has become
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i otada je neuroznanost postala
00:17
a personal passion of mine.
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moja strast.
00:19
I'm actually an engineer.
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Ja sam zapravo inženjer.
00:21
And first let me say, I recently joined
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Molim vas prvo mi dopustite da
kažem da sam se nedavno pridružila
kažem da sam se nedavno pridružila
00:24
Google's Moonshot group,
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Googleovoj Moonshot grupi
00:25
where I had a division,
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gdje sam imala odjel,
00:27
the display division in Google X,
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odjel za prikazivanje u Google X-u
00:29
and the brain science work I'm speaking about today
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a neuroznanstvenim radom o kojem
ću govoriti danas
ću govoriti danas
00:31
is work I did before I joined Google
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sam se bavila prije nego
sam se pridružila Googleu
sam se pridružila Googleu
00:34
and on the side outside of Google.
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i dok sam radila za Google
to mi je bio projekt sa strane.
to mi je bio projekt sa strane.
00:37
So that said, there's a stigma
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Rekavši ovo, postoji stigma
00:40
when you have brain surgery.
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za osobe koje su imale
operaciju na mozgu.
operaciju na mozgu.
00:42
Are you still smart or not?
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Jeste li još pametni ili ne?
00:45
And if not, can you make yourself smart again?
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A ako niste, možete li ponovno
postati pametni?
postati pametni?
00:49
After my neurosurgery,
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Nakon operacije na mozgu,
00:51
part of my brain was missing,
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nedostajao mi je jedan dio mozga,
00:53
and I had to deal with that.
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i ja sam se jednostavno
morala suočiti s tim.
morala suočiti s tim.
00:55
It wasn't the grey matter, but it
was the gooey part dead center
was the gooey part dead center
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Nije to bila siva tvar, već je to bio
ljigavi dio na sredini
ljigavi dio na sredini
00:58
that makes key hormones and neurotransmitters.
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koji proizvodi ključne hormone
i neurotransmitere.
i neurotransmitere.
01:02
Immediately after my surgery,
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Odmah nakon operacije
01:04
I had to decide what amounts of each of over
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morala sam odlučiti o dozama svakog
01:06
a dozen powerful chemicals to take each day,
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od desetak jakih lijekova koje ću
uzimati svaki dan
uzimati svaki dan
01:10
because if I just took nothing,
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jer da ne uzimam ništa,
01:12
I would die within hours.
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umrla bih unutar nekoliko sati.
01:14
Every day now for 18 years -- every single day --
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Svaki dan već 18 godina
-- svaki, baš svaki dan --
-- svaki, baš svaki dan --
01:18
I've had to try to decide the combinations
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morala sam pokušati odlučiti o kombinaciji
01:21
and mixtures of chemicals,
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i mješavini lijekova,
01:22
and try to get them, to stay alive.
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te ih nabaviti kako bih preživjela.
01:26
There have been several close calls.
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Nekoliko puta sam izbjegla smrt za dlaku.
01:29
But luckily, I'm an experimentalist at heart,
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Ali na sreću, ja sam
eksperimentator u srcu,
eksperimentator u srcu,
01:33
so I decided I would experiment
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pa sam odlučila eksperimentirati
01:36
to try to find more optimal dosages
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kako bih pokušala naći optimalnu dozu
01:38
because there really isn't a clear road map
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zato što ne postoje jasne upute
01:40
on this that's detailed.
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za ovakve slučajeve koje su detaljno opisane
01:42
I began to try different mixtures,
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Počela sam isprobavati
različite mješavine,
različite mješavine,
01:44
and I was blown away by how
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i šokiralo me kako
01:47
tiny changes in dosages
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male promjene u doziranju
01:49
dramatically changed my sense of self,
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dramatično mijenjaju moje
poimanje same sebe,
poimanje same sebe,
01:52
my sense of who I was, my thinking,
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poimanje tko sam ja, moje razmišljanje,
01:54
my behavior towards people.
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moje ponašanje prema ljudima.
01:56
One particularly dramatic case:
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Jedan posebno dramatičan slučaj:
01:59
for a couple months I actually tried dosages
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nekoliko mjeseci sam koristila dozu
02:00
and chemicals typical of a man in his early 20s,
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i lijekove karakteristične za
muškarca u ranim 20-ima,
muškarca u ranim 20-ima,
02:04
and I was blown away by how my thoughts changed.
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i potpuno me šokiralo kako su se moje
misli promijenile.
misli promijenile.
02:07
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
02:10
I was angry all the time,
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Bila sam ljuta cijelo vrijeme,
02:13
I thought about sex constantly,
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stalno sam mislila o seksu,
02:15
and I thought I was the smartest person
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i mislila sam da sam najpametnija osoba
02:18
in the entire world, and
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na cijelom svijetu, i
02:20
—(Laughter)—
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--(Smijeh)--
02:23
of course over the years I'd
met guys kind of like that,
met guys kind of like that,
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naravno tijekom godina sam upoznala
dečke koji su na neki način takvi,
dečke koji su na neki način takvi,
02:26
or maybe kind of toned-down versions of that.
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ili koji su možda malo blaža verzija toga.
02:28
I was kind of extreme.
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Bila sam pomalo ekstremna.
02:30
But to me, the surprise was,
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Ali za mene je bilo iznenađujuće to
02:33
I wasn't trying to be arrogant.
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što ja nisam pokušavala biti arogantna.
02:35
I was actually trying,
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Zapravo sam pokušavala,
02:38
with a little bit of insecurity,
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pomalo nesigurna,
02:40
to actually fix a problem in front of me,
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zapravo riješiti problem
koji se našao preda mnom
koji se našao preda mnom
02:43
and it just didn't come out that way.
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ali to jednostavno nije tako ispalo..
02:45
So I couldn't handle it.
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Tako da to nisam mogla riješiti.
02:47
I changed my dosages.
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Promijenila sam dozu.
02:48
But that experience, I think, gave me
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Ali, mislim, da mi je to iskustvo donijelo
02:51
a new appreciation for men
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novopronađeno poštovanje za muškarce
02:52
and what they might walk through,
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i za ono što bi oni mogli proživljavati,
02:54
and I've gotten along with men
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i mnogo se bolje slažem s muškarcima
02:56
a lot better since then.
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otada.
02:58
What I was trying to do
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Ono što sam pokušavala napraviti
02:59
with tuning these hormones
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regulirajući ove hormone
03:01
and neurotransmitters and so forth
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i neurotransmitere i slično
03:04
was to try to get my intelligence back
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jest vratiti natrag inteligenciju
03:07
after my illness and surgery,
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nakon bolesti i operacije,
03:10
my creative thought, my idea flow.
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moje kreativne ideje, moj tijek ideja.
03:12
And I think mostly in images,
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Ja razmišljam uglavnom u slikama
03:15
and so for me that became a key metric --
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i zbog toga je to za mene
postalo ključna mjera --
postalo ključna mjera --
03:18
how to get these mental images
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kako upotrijebiti ove mentalne slike
03:20
that I use as a way of rapid prototyping,
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koje koristim kao vrstu
brzog stvaranja prototipa,
brzog stvaranja prototipa,
03:23
if you will, my ideas,
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jednostavno rečeno, moje ideje,
03:25
trying on different new ideas for size,
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isprobavajući različite nove ideje,
03:27
playing out scenarios.
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odigravajući različite scenarije.
03:29
This kind of thinking isn't new.
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Ova vrsta razmišljanja nije ništa novo.
03:31
Philiosophers like Hume and Descartes and Hobbes
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Filozofi poput Humea
i Descartesa i Hobbesa
i Descartesa i Hobbesa
03:34
saw things similarly.
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su slično gledali na stvari.
03:35
They thought that mental images and ideas
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Oni su smatrali da su
mentalne slike i ideje
mentalne slike i ideje
03:38
were actually the same thing.
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zapravo isto.
03:40
There are those today that dispute that,
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Danas postoje oni koji to pobijaju,
03:43
and lots of debates about how the mind works,
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i vodi se mnogo rasprava o tome
kako mozak radi,
kako mozak radi,
03:46
but for me it's simple:
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ali za mene je to vrlo jednostavno:
03:48
Mental images, for most of us,
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Mentalne slike, za većinu nas,
03:50
are central in inventive and creative thinking.
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su ključne za inventivno
i kreativno razmišljanje.
i kreativno razmišljanje.
03:54
So after several years,
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Tako nakon nekoliko godina,
03:56
I tuned myself up and I have lots of great,
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podesila sam sve sustave
i imam mnogo divnih,
i imam mnogo divnih,
03:59
really vivid mental images with a lot of sophistication
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vrlo živih, vrlo sofisticiranih
mentalnih slika
mentalnih slika
04:02
and the analytical backbone behind them.
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koje imaju analitičku kičmu kao temelj.
04:05
And so now I'm working on,
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I sada radim na tome da vidim
04:06
how can I get these mental images in my mind
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na koji način mogu mentalne slike iz mozga
04:11
out to my computer screen faster?
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brže prenijeti na zaslon računala?
04:13
Can you imagine, if you will,
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Možete li zamisliti, molim vas,
04:16
a movie director being able to use
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filmsku redateljicu
koja je sposobna koristiti
koja je sposobna koristiti
04:18
her imagination alone to
direct the world in front of her?
direct the world in front of her?
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samo svoju maštu kako bi
režirala svijet koji se nalazi ispred nje?
režirala svijet koji se nalazi ispred nje?
04:21
Or a musician to get the music out of his head?
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Ili glazbenika kako bi
prenio glazbu iz svoje glave?
prenio glazbu iz svoje glave?
04:25
There are incredible possibilities with this
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Postoje nevjerovatne stvari
koje možemo raditi s ovim
koje možemo raditi s ovim
04:27
as a way for creative people
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kako bi kreativni ljudi
04:29
to share at light speed.
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mogli dijeliti svoje
zamisli brzinom svjetlosti.
zamisli brzinom svjetlosti.
04:32
And the truth is, the remaining bottleneck
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A istina je da je jedina preostala prepreka
04:34
in being able to do this
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koja nas sprečava da ovo učinimo
04:35
is just upping the resolution of brain scan systems.
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zapravo samo poboljšanje rezolucije
sustava za skeniranje mozga.
sustava za skeniranje mozga.
04:39
So let me show you why I think
we're pretty close to getting there
we're pretty close to getting there
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I dopustite da vam pokažem zašto mislim
da smo blizu postizanja tog cilja
da smo blizu postizanja tog cilja
04:42
by sharing with you two recent experiments
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i s vama podijelim dva eksperimenta
koja su nedavno provele
koja su nedavno provele
04:44
from two top neuroscience groups.
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dvije vrhunske neuroznanstvene grupe.
04:47
Both used fMRI technology --
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Obje grupe su koristile fMRI --
04:49
functional magnetic resonance imaging technology --
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tehnologiju
funkcionalne magnentske rezonancija --
funkcionalne magnentske rezonancija --
04:51
to image the brain,
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kako bi snimili mozak
04:53
and here is a brain scan set from Giorgio Ganis
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i ovdje imamo set slika Giorgia Ganisa
04:56
and his colleagues at Harvard.
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i njegovih kolega sa Harvarda.
04:58
And the left-hand column shows a brain scan
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A lijeva stupac pokazuje sliku mozga
05:01
of a person looking at an image.
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osobe koja gleda nekakvu sliku.
05:04
The middle column shows the brainscan
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u srednjem stupcu se nalazi slika mozga
05:06
of that same individual
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istog pojedinca
05:08
imagining, seeing that same image.
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dok zamišlja kako gleda istu sliku.
05:11
And the right column was created
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A desni stupac je nastao
05:13
by subtracting the middle
column from the left column,
column from the left column,
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oduzimanjem srednjeg stupca
od lijevog stupca
od lijevog stupca
05:17
showing the difference to be nearly zero.
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te pokazuje da je razlika
skoro ravna nuli
skoro ravna nuli
05:20
This was repeated on lots of different individuals
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Ovaj eksperiment je ponovljen
na velikom broju različitih osoba
na velikom broju različitih osoba
05:22
with lots of different images,
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i koristeći veliki broj različitih slika,
05:25
always with a similar result.
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a rezultat je uvijek bio sličan.
05:27
The difference between seeing an image
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Razlika između gledanja slike
05:29
and imagining seeing that same image
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i zamišljanja gledanja te iste slike
05:31
is next to nothing.
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je skoro nikakva.
05:34
Next let me share with you one other experiment,
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Sad mi dopustite da s vama podijelim
još jedan eksperiment,
još jedan eksperiment,
05:36
this from Jack Gallant's lab at Cal Berkeley.
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koji je proveo laboratorij Jacka Gallanta
na Sveučilištu Berkley, Kalifornija.
na Sveučilištu Berkley, Kalifornija.
05:41
They've been able to decode brainwaves
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Oni su uspjeli dekodirati moždane valove
05:43
into recognizable visual fields.
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u prepoznatljiva vizualna polja.
05:45
So let me set this up for you.
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Da vam malo pojasnim ovo.
05:47
In this experiment, individuals were shown
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U ovom eksperimentu,
pojedincima su prikazivane
pojedincima su prikazivane
05:49
hundreds of hours of YouTube videos
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stotine sati Youtube videa
05:51
while scans were made of their brains
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a istovremeno su im rađeni snimci mozga
05:53
to create a large library of their brain reacting
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kako bi se stvorila velika arhiva
načina na koji njihov mozak reagira
načina na koji njihov mozak reagira
05:56
to video sequences.
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na video isječke.
05:59
Then a new movie was shown with new images,
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Tada im je prikazan
novi film s novim slikama,
novi film s novim slikama,
06:02
new people, new animals in it,
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novim ljudima, novim životinjama,
06:04
and a new scan set was recorded.
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i snimljen je novi set snimaka.
06:06
The computer, using brain scan data alone,
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Računalo, koristeći samo
podatke snimaka mozga,
podatke snimaka mozga,
06:09
decoded that new brain scan
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je dekodiralo da taj novi snimak mozga
06:11
to show what it thought the
individual was actually seeing.
individual was actually seeing.
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pokazuje ono što misli da
pojedinac zapravo vidi.
pojedinac zapravo vidi.
06:16
On the right-hand side, you
see the computer's guess,
see the computer's guess,
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Na desnoj strani, možete vidjeti
pretpostavku računala,
pretpostavku računala,
06:19
and on the left-hand side, the presented clip.
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a na lijevoj strani, isječak koji je prikazan.
06:23
This is the jaw-dropper.
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Ovo je toliko zapanjujuće
da će vam se zavrtiti glava.
da će vam se zavrtiti glava.
06:25
We are so close to being able to do this.
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Toliko smo blizu da ostvarimo ovo.
06:28
We just need to up the resolution.
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samo trebamo poboljšati rezoluciju.
06:31
And now remember that when you see an image
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I zapamtite da kad vidite sliku
06:34
versus when you imagine that same image,
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naspram kad tu istu sliku zamislite,
06:36
it creates the same brain scan.
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nastaje jednak snimak mozga.
06:40
So this was done with the highest-resolution
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Ovo je napravljeno sa
najvećom rezolucijom
najvećom rezolucijom
06:42
brain scan systems available today,
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koja je dostupna kod snimanja mozga danas,
06:45
and their resolution has increased really
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a njihova rezolucija se poboljšala negdje
06:46
about a thousandfold in the last several years.
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za tisuću puta u posljednijh nekoliko godina.
06:50
Next we need to increase the resolution
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Sada moramo poboljšati rezoluciju
06:52
another thousandfold
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za još tisuću puta
06:54
to get a deeper glimpse.
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kako bi dobili bolji pogled.
06:56
How do we do that?
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Kako to možemo učiniti?
06:57
There's a lot of techniques in this approach.
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Postoji mnogo tehnika kod ovakvog pristupa.
07:00
One way is to crack open your
skull and put in electrodes.
skull and put in electrodes.
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Jedan način je da rastvorimo lubanju
i ubacimo elektrode.
i ubacimo elektrode.
07:03
I'm not for that.
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Ja osobno nisam za to.
07:05
There's a lot of new imaging techniques
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Mnogo novih tehnika snimanja
07:08
being proposed, some even by me,
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predlaže se danas,
a neke sam predložila i ja
a neke sam predložila i ja
07:10
but given the recent success of MRI,
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ali s obzirom na nedavni uspjeh
snimanja magnetskom rezonancom
snimanja magnetskom rezonancom
07:13
first we need to ask the question,
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prvo moramo postaviti pitanje,
07:15
is it the end of the road with this technology?
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je li je to kraj za ovu tehnologiju?
07:17
Conventional wisdom says the only way
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Konvecionalna mudrost
kaže da je jedini način
kaže da je jedini način
07:20
to get higher resolution is with bigger magnets,
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da se dobije viša rezolucija
korištenje većih magneta,
korištenje većih magneta,
07:22
but at this point bigger magnets
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ali u ovom trenutku veći magneti bi
07:24
only offer incremental resolution improvements,
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pridonijeli samo malom
poboljšanju rezolucije
poboljšanju rezolucije
07:28
not the thousandfold we need.
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ali ne i tisuću puta koliko mi trebamo.
07:30
I'm putting forward an idea:
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Ja predlažem da:
07:32
instead of bigger magnets,
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umjesto većih magneta,
07:34
let's make better magnets.
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napravimo bolje magnete.
07:36
There's some new technology breakthroughs
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Veliki napreci su postignuti
u novoj tehnologiji
u novoj tehnologiji
07:38
in nanoscience
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poput nanoznanosti
07:40
when applied to magnetic structures
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i njenoj primjeni u magnetskim strukturama
07:42
that have created a whole new class of magnets,
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koji su stvorili skroz novu
kategoriju magneta,
kategoriju magneta,
07:45
and with these magnets, we can lay down
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i s ovakvim magnetima, možemo postaviti
07:47
very fine detailed magnetic field patterns
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vrlo sitno detaljizirane
uzorke magnetskih polja
uzorke magnetskih polja
07:49
throughout the brain,
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kroz mozak
07:51
and using those, we can actually create
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i koristeći ih možemo zapravo stvoriti
07:54
holographic-like interference structures
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holografske interferencijske strukture
07:57
to get precision control over many patterns,
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kako bi dobili preciznu kontrolu
nad mnogim uzorcima,
nad mnogim uzorcima,
08:00
as is shown here by shifting things.
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kako je pokazano ovdje
samo drugačijim pristupom.
samo drugačijim pristupom.
08:03
We can create much more complicated structures
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Možemo stvoriti mnogo
kompliciranije strukture
kompliciranije strukture
08:06
with slightly different arrangements,
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a koristeći tek malo promijenjen poredak
08:08
kind of like making Spirograph.
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kao da radimo Spirograf.
08:11
So why does that matter?
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I zašto je to bitno?
08:13
A lot of effort in MRI over the years
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Mnogo truda u MRI-ju kroz godine
08:16
has gone into making really big,
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je uloženo u proizvodnju zaista velikih,
08:19
really huge magnets, right?
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ogromnih magneta, zar ne?
08:21
But yet most of the recent advances
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Ali većina novijih otkrića
08:24
in resolution have actually come from
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na području rezolucije je rezultat
08:26
ingeniously clever encoding and decoding solutions
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genijalnih i inteligentnih rješenja
kodiranja i dekodiranja
kodiranja i dekodiranja
08:30
in the F.M. radio frequency transmitters and receivers
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na odašiljačima i prijamnicima
F.M. radio frekvencija
F.M. radio frekvencija
08:33
in the MRI systems.
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u MRI sustavima.
08:36
Let's also, instead of a uniform magnetic field,
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Također, umjesto uniformnih
magnetskih polja
magnetskih polja
08:39
put down structured magnetic patterns
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sastavimo strukturirane magnetske uzorke
08:42
in addition to the F.M. radio frequencies.
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zajedno s F.M. radio frekvencijama.
08:45
So by combining the magnetics patterns
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Tako koristeći ovakve magnetske uzorke
08:47
with the patterns in the F.M. radio frequencies
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s uzorcima u obradi F.M. radio frekvencija
08:50
processing which can massively increase
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možemo uvelike povećati
08:52
the information that we can extract
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količinu informacija koju možemo izvući
08:54
in a single scan.
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u jednom snimku.
08:57
And on top of that, we can then layer
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I povrh svega toga,
tada možemo još pridodati
tada možemo još pridodati
08:59
our ever-growing knowledge
of brain structure and memory
of brain structure and memory
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svoje rastuće znanje strukture
mozga i sjećanja
mozga i sjećanja
09:03
to create a thousandfold increase that we need.
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kako bismo stvorili tisuću puta
veću jačinu koju trebamo.
veću jačinu koju trebamo.
09:07
And using fMRI, we should be able to measure
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a koristeći fMRI,
trebali bismo moći izmjeriti
trebali bismo moći izmjeriti
09:10
not just oxygenated blood flow,
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ne samo protok krvi obogaćene kisikom
09:12
but the hormones and neurotransmitters
I've talked about
I've talked about
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već i razinu hormona i neurotransmitera
koje sam spomenula
koje sam spomenula
09:15
and maybe even the direct neural activity,
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a možda čak i izravnu neuro aktvnost
09:17
which is the dream.
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poput snova.
09:19
We're going to be able to dump our ideas
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Moći ćemo staviti svoje ideje
09:21
directly to digital media.
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ravno na digitalne medije.
09:24
Could you imagine if we could leapfrog language
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Možete li zamisliti kad
bismo mogli zaobići jezik
bismo mogli zaobići jezik
09:26
and communicate directly with human thought?
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i sporazumijevati se direktno ljudskom misli?
09:31
What would we be capable of then?
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Za što bismo sve bili sposobni?
09:34
And how will we learn to deal
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I kako bismo naučili nositi se s
09:36
with the truths of unfiltered human thought?
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istinama nefiltrirane ljudske misli?
09:41
You think the Internet was big.
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Mislite da je Internet velik.
09:43
These are huge questions.
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Postoji mnogo velikih pitanja.
09:46
It might be irresistible as a tool
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Ovo bi moglo biti neodoljivo kao alat
09:48
to amplify our thinking and communication skills.
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za poboljšanje sposobnosti
razmišljanja i sporazumijevanja.
razmišljanja i sporazumijevanja.
09:52
And indeed, this very same tool
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I zaista, ovaj isti alat
09:54
may prove to lead to the cure
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bi se mogao pokazati kao put do lijeka
09:56
for Alzheimer's and similar diseases.
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za Alzeheimerovu bolesti i druge
slične bolesti.
slične bolesti.
09:59
We have little option but to open this door.
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Nemamo izbora nego otvoriti vrata ove prilike.
10:03
Regardless, pick a year --
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Bez obzira, izaberite godinu --
10:04
will it happen in five years or 15 years?
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hoće li se to dogoditi za 5 ili 15 godina?
10:06
It's hard to imagine it taking much longer.
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Teško mogu zamisliti
da bi to trebalo trajati duže.
da bi to trebalo trajati duže.
10:11
We need to learn how to take this step together.
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Moramo naučiti kako napraviti
ovaj korak zajednički.
ovaj korak zajednički.
10:15
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
10:17
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Mary Lou Jepsen - Inventor, entrepreneur, optical physicistMary Lou Jepsen pushes the edges of what's possible in optics and physics, to make new types of devices, leading teams and working with huge factories that can ship vast volumes of these strange, new things.
Why you should listen
Mary Lou Jepsen is one of the world’s foremost engineers and scientists in optics, imaging and display -- inventing at the hairy, crazy edge of what physics allows, aiming to do what seems impossible and leading teams to achieve these in volume in partnership with the world’s largest manufacturers, in Asia. She has more than 200 patents published or issued.
Jepsen is the founder and CEO of Openwater, which aims to use new optics to see inside our bodies. Previously a top technical exec at Google, Facebook, Oculus and Intel, her startups include One Laptop Per Child, where she was CTO and chief architect on the $100 laptop. She studied at Brown, MIT and Rhode Island School of Design, and she was a professor at both MITs -- the one in Cambridge, Mass., and the Royal Melbourne Institute of Tech in Australia.
Mary Lou Jepsen | Speaker | TED.com