TED2013
Mary Lou Jepsen: Could future devices read images from our brains?
Meri Lu Jepsen (Mary Lou Jepsen): Da li bi sprave u budućnosti mogle da čitaju slike iz naših mozgova?
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Kao stručnjak za najnovije digitalne ekrane, Meri Lu Jepsen izučava kako da prikaže naše najkreativnije ideje na ekranima. A pošto je i sama imala operaciju na mozgu, ima želju da sazna više o moždanoj aktivnosti iza izmišljanja, kreativnosti i misli. Ona meša ove dve strasti u neverovatnom govoru o dva najnovija istraživanja koja bi mogla da pokažu nove horizonte u razumevanju kako (i o čemu) mislimo.
Mary Lou Jepsen - Inventor, entrepreneur, optical physicist
Mary Lou Jepsen pushes the edges of what's possible in optics and physics, to make new types of devices, leading teams and working with huge factories that can ship vast volumes of these strange, new things. Full bio
Mary Lou Jepsen pushes the edges of what's possible in optics and physics, to make new types of devices, leading teams and working with huge factories that can ship vast volumes of these strange, new things. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I had brain surgery 18 years ago,
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Imala sam operaciju mozga
pre 18 godina,
pre 18 godina,
00:15
and since that time, brain science has become
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i od tada, nauka o mozgu postala je
00:17
a personal passion of mine.
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moja lična strast.
00:19
I'm actually an engineer.
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Ja sam zapravo inženjer.
00:21
And first let me say, I recently joined
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Najpre da kažem, nedavno
sam se pridružila
sam se pridružila
00:24
Google's Moonshot group,
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Guglovoj grupi "Moonshot",
00:25
where I had a division,
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gde sam imala odeljenje,
00:27
the display division in Google X,
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odeljenje za prikazivanje u Guglu X
00:29
and the brain science work I'm speaking about today
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i rad na nauci o mozgu
o kome govorim danas
o kome govorim danas
00:31
is work I did before I joined Google
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je rad kojim sam se bavila pre nego
što sam se priključila Guglu
što sam se priključila Guglu
00:34
and on the side outside of Google.
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i van Gugla.
00:37
So that said, there's a stigma
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Kad ovo kažem, postoji stigma
00:40
when you have brain surgery.
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kad ste imali operaciju na mozgu.
00:42
Are you still smart or not?
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Jeste li još uvek pametni ili ne?
00:45
And if not, can you make yourself smart again?
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Ako niste, da li možete da učinite
da opet budete pametni?
da opet budete pametni?
00:49
After my neurosurgery,
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Posle moje operacije,
00:51
part of my brain was missing,
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deo mozga mi je falio,
00:53
and I had to deal with that.
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i morala sam da se nosim s time.
00:55
It wasn't the grey matter, but it
was the gooey part dead center
was the gooey part dead center
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Nije to bila ona siva materija,
već ona želatinasta sredina
već ona želatinasta sredina
00:58
that makes key hormones and neurotransmitters.
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koja pravi glavne hormone
i neurotransmitere.
i neurotransmitere.
01:02
Immediately after my surgery,
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Odmah nakon moje operacije,
01:04
I had to decide what amounts of each of over
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morala sam da odlučim
koliko od svake
koliko od svake
01:06
a dozen powerful chemicals to take each day,
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od desetine moćnih hemikalija
da uzimam svakog dana,
da uzimam svakog dana,
01:10
because if I just took nothing,
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jer da nisam uzimala ništa,
01:12
I would die within hours.
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umrla bih u roku od par sati.
01:14
Every day now for 18 years -- every single day --
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Svakog dana tokom ovih 18 godina
- svakog dana -
- svakog dana -
01:18
I've had to try to decide the combinations
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morala sam da biram kombinacije
01:21
and mixtures of chemicals,
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i mešavine hemikalija,
01:22
and try to get them, to stay alive.
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i da probam da ih unesem,
kako bih ostala živa.
kako bih ostala živa.
01:26
There have been several close calls.
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Bilo je nekoliko
skoro katastrofalnih situacija.
skoro katastrofalnih situacija.
01:29
But luckily, I'm an experimentalist at heart,
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Ali srećom, ja sam
eksperimentalista u duši,
eksperimentalista u duši,
01:33
so I decided I would experiment
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tako da sam odlučila da
eksperimentišem
eksperimentišem
01:36
to try to find more optimal dosages
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da nađem optimalniju dozu
01:38
because there really isn't a clear road map
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jer ovde ne postoji tačna mapa puta
01:40
on this that's detailed.
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sa detaljima.
01:42
I began to try different mixtures,
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Isprobavala sam različite mešavine,
01:44
and I was blown away by how
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i iznenadilo me je to
01:47
tiny changes in dosages
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kako su sitne promene u dozi
01:49
dramatically changed my sense of self,
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jako uticale na moje poimanje sebe,
01:52
my sense of who I was, my thinking,
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na osećaj toga ko sam,
moje razmišljanje,
moje razmišljanje,
01:54
my behavior towards people.
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moje ponašanje sa ljudima.
01:56
One particularly dramatic case:
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Jedan posebno dramatičan slučaj:
01:59
for a couple months I actually tried dosages
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par meseci sam isprobavala doze
02:00
and chemicals typical of a man in his early 20s,
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i hemikalije tipične za muškarca
u ranim dvadesetim,
u ranim dvadesetim,
02:04
and I was blown away by how my thoughts changed.
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i zaprepastilo me kako su se
moje misli promenile.
moje misli promenile.
02:07
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
02:10
I was angry all the time,
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Sve vreme sam bila ljuta,
02:13
I thought about sex constantly,
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stalno sam mislila na seks,
02:15
and I thought I was the smartest person
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i mislila sam da sam
najpametnija osoba
najpametnija osoba
02:18
in the entire world, and
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na celom svetu, i -
02:20
—(Laughter)—
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(Smeh)
02:23
of course over the years I'd
met guys kind of like that,
met guys kind of like that,
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naravno da sam tokom godina
upoznala momke koji su nešto tako
upoznala momke koji su nešto tako
02:26
or maybe kind of toned-down versions of that.
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ili neka za par nijansi drugačija
verzija toga.
verzija toga.
02:28
I was kind of extreme.
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Bila sam neki ekstrem.
02:30
But to me, the surprise was,
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Ali je za mene bilo iznenađenje,
02:33
I wasn't trying to be arrogant.
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da ja nisam htela da budem arogantna.
02:35
I was actually trying,
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Zapravo sam pokušavala,
02:38
with a little bit of insecurity,
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sa malo nesigurnosti,
02:40
to actually fix a problem in front of me,
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da zapravo sredim problem
koji je ispred mene,
koji je ispred mene,
02:43
and it just didn't come out that way.
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a nije ispadalo tako.
02:45
So I couldn't handle it.
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Nisam mogla da se nosim sa tim.
02:47
I changed my dosages.
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Promenila sam doze.
02:48
But that experience, I think, gave me
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Ali mislim da mi je to iskustvo dalo
02:51
a new appreciation for men
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novu vrstu uvažavanja
prema muškarcima
prema muškarcima
02:52
and what they might walk through,
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i tome kroz šta prolaze,
02:54
and I've gotten along with men
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i slažem se mnogo bolje
02:56
a lot better since then.
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sa muškarcima od tada.
Zapravo sam pokušavala
02:58
What I was trying to do
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02:59
with tuning these hormones
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da uklopim ove hormone
03:01
and neurotransmitters and so forth
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i neurotransmitere i tako dalje
03:04
was to try to get my intelligence back
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da bih povratila svoju inteligenciju
03:07
after my illness and surgery,
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nakon operacije,
03:10
my creative thought, my idea flow.
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moje kreativno razmišljanje,
moj tok misli.
moj tok misli.
03:12
And I think mostly in images,
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Ja prvenstveno mislim u slikama,
03:15
and so for me that became a key metric --
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tako da je to za mene postala
glavna merna jedinica -
glavna merna jedinica -
03:18
how to get these mental images
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kako da dobijem te mentalne slike
03:20
that I use as a way of rapid prototyping,
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koje ja koristim kao način
mentalnog prototipiranja,
mentalnog prototipiranja,
03:23
if you will, my ideas,
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ako ćete tako, mojih ideja,
03:25
trying on different new ideas for size,
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isprobavanje novih ideja za veličinu,
03:27
playing out scenarios.
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puštati scenarije u glavi.
03:29
This kind of thinking isn't new.
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Ovaj način razmišljanja nije nov.
03:31
Philiosophers like Hume and Descartes and Hobbes
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Filozofi kao Hjum, Dekart i Hobs
03:34
saw things similarly.
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su slično videli stvari.
03:35
They thought that mental images and ideas
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Mislili su da su mentalne
slike i ideje
slike i ideje
03:38
were actually the same thing.
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zapravo ista stvar.
03:40
There are those today that dispute that,
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Ima onih danas koji to opovrgavaju,
03:43
and lots of debates about how the mind works,
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i ima mnogo rasprava
o tome kako um radi,
o tome kako um radi,
03:46
but for me it's simple:
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ali za mene je to prosto:
03:48
Mental images, for most of us,
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Mentalne slike, za većinu nas,
03:50
are central in inventive and creative thinking.
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su glavne za pronalazačko
i kreativno razmišljanje.
i kreativno razmišljanje.
03:54
So after several years,
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I nakon nekoliko godina,
03:56
I tuned myself up and I have lots of great,
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naštimovala sam sebe i imam puno divnih,
03:59
really vivid mental images with a lot of sophistication
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opipljivih, prefinjenih mentalnih slika,
04:02
and the analytical backbone behind them.
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i analitičku pozadinu za njih.
04:05
And so now I'm working on,
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A sada radim na tome
04:06
how can I get these mental images in my mind
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kako da te mentalne slike iz svog uma
04:11
out to my computer screen faster?
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što brže stavim na ekran kompjutera.
04:13
Can you imagine, if you will,
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Možete li da zamislite
04:16
a movie director being able to use
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da režiser filma može da koristi
04:18
her imagination alone to
direct the world in front of her?
direct the world in front of her?
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samo svoju maštu
da režira svet ispred sebe?
da režira svet ispred sebe?
04:21
Or a musician to get the music out of his head?
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Ili muzičara koji izbacuje muziku
iz svoje glave?
iz svoje glave?
04:25
There are incredible possibilities with this
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Ovde postoje neverovatne mogućnosti
04:27
as a way for creative people
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za načine da kreativni ljudi
04:29
to share at light speed.
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dele stvari svetlosnom brzinom.
04:32
And the truth is, the remaining bottleneck
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Istina je da je preostala prepreka
04:34
in being able to do this
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da bi se ovo uradilo
04:35
is just upping the resolution of brain scan systems.
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u tome da se poveća rezolucija
naših sistema za snimanje mozga.
naših sistema za snimanje mozga.
04:39
So let me show you why I think
we're pretty close to getting there
we're pretty close to getting there
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Dozvolite da vam pokažem zašto mislim
da smo veoma blizu tome
da smo veoma blizu tome
04:42
by sharing with you two recent experiments
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tako što ću sa vama podeliti
dva skorašnja eksperimenta
dva skorašnja eksperimenta
04:44
from two top neuroscience groups.
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od dve vrhunske grupe neurologa.
04:47
Both used fMRI technology --
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Obe su koristile PFMRZ tehnologiju -
04:49
functional magnetic resonance imaging technology --
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prikaz funkcionalne magnetne rezonance -
04:51
to image the brain,
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kako bi snimile mozak,
04:53
and here is a brain scan set from Giorgio Ganis
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a ovde je komplet slika mozga
od Đorđa Ganisa
od Đorđa Ganisa
04:56
and his colleagues at Harvard.
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i njegovih kolega na Harvardu.
04:58
And the left-hand column shows a brain scan
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Leva kolona prikazuje mozak
05:01
of a person looking at an image.
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osobe koja gleda u sliku.
05:04
The middle column shows the brainscan
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Srednja kolona prikazuje mozak
05:06
of that same individual
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iste te osobe
05:08
imagining, seeing that same image.
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koja zamišlja i gleda tu istu sliku.
05:11
And the right column was created
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Desna kolona je dobijena
05:13
by subtracting the middle
column from the left column,
column from the left column,
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tako što je oduzeta
srednja od leve kolone,
srednja od leve kolone,
05:17
showing the difference to be nearly zero.
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i vidi se da je razlika skoro nepostojeća.
05:20
This was repeated on lots of different individuals
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Ovo je ponovljeno dosta puta
na različitim osobama
na različitim osobama
05:22
with lots of different images,
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sa dosta različitih slika,
05:25
always with a similar result.
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uvek sa sličnim rezultatima.
05:27
The difference between seeing an image
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Razlika između gledanja u sliku
05:29
and imagining seeing that same image
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i zamišljanja da gledate sliku
05:31
is next to nothing.
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skoro da ne postoji.
05:34
Next let me share with you one other experiment,
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Sada ću vam pokazati
još jedan eskperiment,
još jedan eskperiment,
05:36
this from Jack Gallant's lab at Cal Berkeley.
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iz laboratorije Džeka Galanta na Berkliju.
05:41
They've been able to decode brainwaves
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Oni su uspeli da dekodiraju
moždane talase
moždane talase
05:43
into recognizable visual fields.
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u prepoznatljiva vizuelna polja.
05:45
So let me set this up for you.
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Hajde da vam izložim priču.
05:47
In this experiment, individuals were shown
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U ovom eksperimentu,
osobama je prikazivano
osobama je prikazivano
05:49
hundreds of hours of YouTube videos
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stotine sati video snimaka sa Jutjuba
05:51
while scans were made of their brains
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dok su im skenirali mozgove
05:53
to create a large library of their brain reacting
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kako bi stvorili biblioteku snimaka
toga kako reaguju
toga kako reaguju
05:56
to video sequences.
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na video zapise.
05:59
Then a new movie was shown with new images,
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Onda je prikazan novi film,
sa novim slikama,
sa novim slikama,
06:02
new people, new animals in it,
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novim ljudima i novim životinjama
06:04
and a new scan set was recorded.
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i snimljeni su novi zapisi.
06:06
The computer, using brain scan data alone,
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Koristeći isključivo
podatke o skeniranju mozga,
podatke o skeniranju mozga,
06:09
decoded that new brain scan
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kompjuter je dekodirao taj novi zapis
06:11
to show what it thought the
individual was actually seeing.
individual was actually seeing.
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kako bi pokazao ono što je on mislio
da ta osoba zapravo vidi.
da ta osoba zapravo vidi.
06:16
On the right-hand side, you
see the computer's guess,
see the computer's guess,
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Sa desne strane možete videti
pretpostavku kompjutera
pretpostavku kompjutera
06:19
and on the left-hand side, the presented clip.
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a sa leve prikazani snimak.
06:23
This is the jaw-dropper.
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Ovo je neverovatno.
06:25
We are so close to being able to do this.
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Blizu smo tome da možemo
da uradimo ovo.
da uradimo ovo.
06:28
We just need to up the resolution.
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Samo moramo da uvećamo rezoluciju.
06:31
And now remember that when you see an image
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Setite se toga kada vidite sliku
06:34
versus when you imagine that same image,
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nasuprot onome kada zamislite
istu tu sliku,
istu tu sliku,
06:36
it creates the same brain scan.
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prikaz mozga je isti.
06:40
So this was done with the highest-resolution
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Ovo je urađeno sa sistemima
za skeniranje mozga
za skeniranje mozga
06:42
brain scan systems available today,
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najviše rezolucije
06:45
and their resolution has increased really
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i njihova rezolucija se uvećala
06:46
about a thousandfold in the last several years.
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oko 1000 puta u proteklih nekoliko godina.
06:50
Next we need to increase the resolution
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Sada moramo da uvećamo rezoluciju
06:52
another thousandfold
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još 1000 puta
06:54
to get a deeper glimpse.
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da bismo dobili bolji uvid.
06:56
How do we do that?
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Kako to da uradimo?
06:57
There's a lot of techniques in this approach.
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Postoji dosta tehnika u ovom pristupu.
07:00
One way is to crack open your
skull and put in electrodes.
skull and put in electrodes.
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Jedan način je da vam se otvori lobanja
i postave elektrode.
i postave elektrode.
07:03
I'm not for that.
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Ja nisam za to.
07:05
There's a lot of new imaging techniques
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Postoji dosta novih tehnika
za prikazivanje slika
za prikazivanje slika
07:08
being proposed, some even by me,
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koje predlažu ljudi, neke čak i ja,
07:10
but given the recent success of MRI,
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ali s obzirom na skorašnje uspehe
magnetne rezonance,
magnetne rezonance,
07:13
first we need to ask the question,
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prvo moramo da postavimo pitanje,
07:15
is it the end of the road with this technology?
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da li je sa ovom tehnologijom
zaista kraj puta?
zaista kraj puta?
07:17
Conventional wisdom says the only way
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Tradicionalna mudrost kaže
da je jedini način
da je jedini način
07:20
to get higher resolution is with bigger magnets,
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da se dobije veća rezolucija
putem većih magneta,
putem većih magneta,
07:22
but at this point bigger magnets
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ali veći magneti trenutno nude
07:24
only offer incremental resolution improvements,
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samo marginalno uvećanje u rezoluciji,
07:28
not the thousandfold we need.
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ne ono od 1000 puta koje nam je potrebno.
07:30
I'm putting forward an idea:
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Predlažem ovo:
07:32
instead of bigger magnets,
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umesto većih magneta,
07:34
let's make better magnets.
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hajde da pravimo bolje magnete.
07:36
There's some new technology breakthroughs
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Postoje nova otkrića u tehnologiji
07:38
in nanoscience
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u nanonauci,
07:40
when applied to magnetic structures
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koja su stvorila potpuno nove magnete
07:42
that have created a whole new class of magnets,
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kada se primene na magnetne strukture,
07:45
and with these magnets, we can lay down
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i sa ovim magnetima možemo da postavimo
07:47
very fine detailed magnetic field patterns
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veoma fina, detaljna polja magneta
07:49
throughout the brain,
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po celom mozgu,
07:51
and using those, we can actually create
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i koristeći ih, zapravo možemo da stvorimo
07:54
holographic-like interference structures
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strukture koje ometaju
nalik na holgrafe,
nalik na holgrafe,
07:57
to get precision control over many patterns,
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kako bismo dobili preciznu kontrolu
nad mnogim šablonima,
nad mnogim šablonima,
08:00
as is shown here by shifting things.
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kao što je ovde prikazano,
uz pomeranje stvari.
uz pomeranje stvari.
08:03
We can create much more complicated structures
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Možemo stvoriti
mnogo komplikovanije strukture
mnogo komplikovanije strukture
08:06
with slightly different arrangements,
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uz neznatno drugačiji raspored,
08:08
kind of like making Spirograph.
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kao uz igračku Spirograf.
08:11
So why does that matter?
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Zašto je to bitno?
08:13
A lot of effort in MRI over the years
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Dosta rada na magnetnoj rezonanci
tokom godina
tokom godina
08:16
has gone into making really big,
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fokusirano je na pravljenje
08:19
really huge magnets, right?
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zaista ogromnih magneta, zar ne?
08:21
But yet most of the recent advances
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Ipak, većina skorašnjih inovacija
08:24
in resolution have actually come from
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u rezoluciji zapravo je došla
08:26
ingeniously clever encoding and decoding solutions
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od genijalnih rešenja
za kodiranje i dekodiranje
za kodiranje i dekodiranje
08:30
in the F.M. radio frequency transmitters and receivers
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kod odašiljača i prijemnika
FM radio frekvencija
FM radio frekvencija
08:33
in the MRI systems.
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u sistemima magnetne rezonance.
08:36
Let's also, instead of a uniform magnetic field,
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Takođe, hajde da umesto
homogenog magnetnog polja
homogenog magnetnog polja
08:39
put down structured magnetic patterns
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postavimo strukturisane magnetne šeme
08:42
in addition to the F.M. radio frequencies.
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pored FM radio frekvencija.
08:45
So by combining the magnetics patterns
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Kombinujući magnetne šeme
08:47
with the patterns in the F.M. radio frequencies
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sa šemama u FM radio frekvencijama
08:50
processing which can massively increase
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dobijamo proces koji može
znatno da uveća
znatno da uveća
08:52
the information that we can extract
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količinu informacija koja se dobija
08:54
in a single scan.
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u jednom snimku.
08:57
And on top of that, we can then layer
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Povrh svega toga, onda možemo nadograditi
08:59
our ever-growing knowledge
of brain structure and memory
of brain structure and memory
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naše rastuće znanje
o strukturi mozga i memoriji
o strukturi mozga i memoriji
09:03
to create a thousandfold increase that we need.
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kako bismo dobili uvećanje od 1000 puta
koje nam je potrebno.
koje nam je potrebno.
09:07
And using fMRI, we should be able to measure
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Koristeći magnetnu rezonancu,
trebalo bi da možemo da merimo
trebalo bi da možemo da merimo
09:10
not just oxygenated blood flow,
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ne samo tok krvi sa kiseonikom
09:12
but the hormones and neurotransmitters
I've talked about
I've talked about
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već i hormone i neurotransmitere
o kojima sam pričala
o kojima sam pričala
09:15
and maybe even the direct neural activity,
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a možda čak i direktnu aktivnost neurona,
09:17
which is the dream.
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što je san snova.
09:19
We're going to be able to dump our ideas
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Moći ćemo da prelijemo svoje ideje
09:21
directly to digital media.
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direktno u digitalne medije.
09:24
Could you imagine if we could leapfrog language
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Možete li da zamislite da preskočimo jezik
09:26
and communicate directly with human thought?
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i komuniciramo direktno
putem ljudskih misli?
putem ljudskih misli?
09:31
What would we be capable of then?
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Šta bismo onda mogli?
09:34
And how will we learn to deal
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I kako ćemo naučiti da se nosimo
09:36
with the truths of unfiltered human thought?
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sa istinom neobrađene ljudske misli?
09:41
You think the Internet was big.
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Mislite da je internet bio veliki.
09:43
These are huge questions.
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Ovo su ogromna pitanja.
09:46
It might be irresistible as a tool
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Možda će biti neodoljivo kao alat
09:48
to amplify our thinking and communication skills.
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da pojačamo svoje veštine
mišljenja i komunikacije.
mišljenja i komunikacije.
09:52
And indeed, this very same tool
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Zaista, ovaj isti alat
09:54
may prove to lead to the cure
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može se dokazati kao lek
09:56
for Alzheimer's and similar diseases.
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za Alchajmerovu i slične bolesti.
09:59
We have little option but to open this door.
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Nemamo puno izbora
osim da otvorimo ova vrata.
osim da otvorimo ova vrata.
10:03
Regardless, pick a year --
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Bez obzira, odaberite godinu -
10:04
will it happen in five years or 15 years?
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da li će se desiti za pet ili 15 godina?
10:06
It's hard to imagine it taking much longer.
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Teško da će trajati više od toga.
10:11
We need to learn how to take this step together.
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Moramo da naučimo kako da zajedno
poduzmemo ovaj korak.
poduzmemo ovaj korak.
10:15
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
10:17
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Mary Lou Jepsen - Inventor, entrepreneur, optical physicistMary Lou Jepsen pushes the edges of what's possible in optics and physics, to make new types of devices, leading teams and working with huge factories that can ship vast volumes of these strange, new things.
Why you should listen
Mary Lou Jepsen is one of the world’s foremost engineers and scientists in optics, imaging and display -- inventing at the hairy, crazy edge of what physics allows, aiming to do what seems impossible and leading teams to achieve these in volume in partnership with the world’s largest manufacturers, in Asia. She has more than 200 patents published or issued.
Jepsen is the founder and CEO of Openwater, which aims to use new optics to see inside our bodies. Previously a top technical exec at Google, Facebook, Oculus and Intel, her startups include One Laptop Per Child, where she was CTO and chief architect on the $100 laptop. She studied at Brown, MIT and Rhode Island School of Design, and she was a professor at both MITs -- the one in Cambridge, Mass., and the Royal Melbourne Institute of Tech in Australia.
Mary Lou Jepsen | Speaker | TED.com