TED2013
Mary Lou Jepsen: Could future devices read images from our brains?
Mary Lou Jepsen: 未來設備可唔可以讀到我哋大腦入面嘅影像？
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作為尖端科技數碼顯示嘅專家，Mary Lou Jepsen 研究點樣能夠喺屏幕上面顯示到我哋腦裏面最有創意嘅想法。曾經作為一個大腦外科手術嘅病人，佢想去了解多啲同發明、創意同想法有關嘅神經活動。佢集合呢兩股熱情，喺呢場深刻嘅演講入面介紹兩個最新有關大腦嘅研究，而呢兩個研究有可能令我哋對自己點樣同諗啲咩有新嘅認識。
Mary Lou Jepsen - Inventor, entrepreneur, optical physicist
Mary Lou Jepsen pushes the edges of what's possible in optics and physics, to make new types of devices, leading teams and working with huge factories that can ship vast volumes of these strange, new things. Full bio
Mary Lou Jepsen pushes the edges of what's possible in optics and physics, to make new types of devices, leading teams and working with huge factories that can ship vast volumes of these strange, new things. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I had brain surgery 18 years ago,
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我十八年前做過腦部手術
00:15
and since that time, brain science has become
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自從嗰次之後，腦科學就成為我嘅興趣
00:17
a personal passion of mine.
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00:19
I'm actually an engineer.
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實際上我係一個工程師
00:21
And first let me say, I recently joined
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首先，我想講嘅係
最近我加入咗 Google 嘅月球探測器小組
00:24
Google's Moonshot group,
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00:25
where I had a division,
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喺入面我管理一個部門
00:27
the display division in Google X,
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係 Google X 嘅顯示器部門
00:29
and the brain science work I'm speaking about today
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今日我所講關於腦科學嘅研究
00:31
is work I did before I joined Google
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係我加入Google 之前做嘅研究
係喺 Google 出面做嘅
00:34
and on the side outside of Google.
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00:37
So that said, there's a stigma
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所以當你要做腦部手術
00:40
when you have brain surgery.
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會被人標籤
00:42
Are you still smart or not?
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會俾人質疑你係咪仍然聰明
00:45
And if not, can you make yourself smart again?
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如果唔係嘅話
你可唔可以令你自己變返聰明
00:49
After my neurosurgery,
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喺我做完神經外科手術之後
00:51
part of my brain was missing,
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我冇咗大腦一部份
00:53
and I had to deal with that.
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而我就要面對呢樣嘢
00:55
It wasn't the grey matter, but it
was the gooey part dead center
was the gooey part dead center
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唔係因為灰物質
而係又黏又軟嘅「死點」
而係又黏又軟嘅「死點」
00:58
that makes key hormones and neurotransmitters.
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「死點」係產生主要荷爾蒙
同神經傳遞素嘅地方
同神經傳遞素嘅地方
01:02
Immediately after my surgery,
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我一做完手術
01:04
I had to decide what amounts of each of over
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就要打超過一打強力化學劑
01:06
a dozen powerful chemicals to take each day,
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仲要決定每隻每日要食幾多
01:10
because if I just took nothing,
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因為如果我唔服用任何藥物
01:12
I would die within hours.
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我會喺幾個小時內死亡
01:14
Every day now for 18 years -- every single day --
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我過去嘅十八年
每日我都要決定藥物嘅配搭
01:18
I've had to try to decide the combinations
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01:21
and mixtures of chemicals,
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01:22
and try to get them, to stay alive.
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要配搭得啱先至可以生存落去
01:26
There have been several close calls.
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曾經有幾次我瀕臨死亡邊緣
01:29
But luckily, I'm an experimentalist at heart,
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但係好彩嘅係
我天生係一個玩試驗嘅人
01:33
so I decided I would experiment
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所以我決定我要通過試驗
01:36
to try to find more optimal dosages
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去發現更多適當嘅藥物劑量配搭
01:38
because there really isn't a clear road map
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因為從來冇清晰嘅指引
01:40
on this that's detailed.
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01:42
I began to try different mixtures,
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我開始嘗試唔同嘅配搭
01:44
and I was blown away by how
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而且我曾經怕只係少少劑量唔同
01:47
tiny changes in dosages
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01:49
dramatically changed my sense of self,
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而令到自我意識、想法、對人嘅行為
有好大唔同
有好大唔同
01:52
my sense of who I was, my thinking,
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01:54
my behavior towards people.
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01:56
One particularly dramatic case:
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一件特別喜劇性嘅事就係
01:59
for a couple months I actually tried dosages
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我有幾個月喺度服食緊 20 歲青年
會用嘅藥物配方
會用嘅藥物配方
02:00
and chemicals typical of a man in his early 20s,
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02:04
and I was blown away by how my thoughts changed.
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然後對於自己食咗之後
思想出現改變而驚訝
思想出現改變而驚訝
02:07
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
02:10
I was angry all the time,
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我嗰時一直都發脾氣
02:13
I thought about sex constantly,
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我成日都諗住「性」
02:15
and I thought I was the smartest person
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而且我覺得我係世界上最聰明嘅人
02:18
in the entire world, and
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仲有…
02:20
—(Laughter)—
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（笑聲）
02:23
of course over the years I'd
met guys kind of like that,
met guys kind of like that,
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當然呢幾年嚟我遇過呢類型嘅人
02:26
or maybe kind of toned-down versions of that.
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或者比嗰啲冇咁極端嘅人
02:28
I was kind of extreme.
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而我係極端嘅人
02:30
But to me, the surprise was,
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但對於我嚟講
最驚訝嘅係我冇努力令自己傲慢
02:33
I wasn't trying to be arrogant.
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02:35
I was actually trying,
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實際上我喺度試下
02:38
with a little bit of insecurity,
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冇咗少少嘅安全感會點
從而解決一個擺喺我面前嘅問題
02:40
to actually fix a problem in front of me,
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02:43
and it just didn't come out that way.
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不過事情發展唔係好似我所諗嘅
02:45
So I couldn't handle it.
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我解決唔到
02:47
I changed my dosages.
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我改變劑量
但係嗰次嘅經歷
02:48
But that experience, I think, gave me
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我對人同佢哋經歷嘅嘢有新嘅認識
02:51
a new appreciation for men
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02:52
and what they might walk through,
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02:54
and I've gotten along with men
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從此之後，我同男性容易相處好多
02:56
a lot better since then.
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02:58
What I was trying to do
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我調較呢啲荷爾蒙同神經傳遞素就係想
02:59
with tuning these hormones
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03:01
and neurotransmitters and so forth
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03:04
was to try to get my intelligence back
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恢復我患病前同手術前嘅智力
03:07
after my illness and surgery,
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仲有恢復我嘅創意同思維
03:10
my creative thought, my idea flow.
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03:12
And I think mostly in images,
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我係一個視覺型思考嘅人
03:15
and so for me that became a key metric --
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所以影像就成為咗我依賴嘅嘢
03:18
how to get these mental images
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點樣用用嚟快速定型
自己諗法嘅心理影像
自己諗法嘅心理影像
03:20
that I use as a way of rapid prototyping,
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03:23
if you will, my ideas,
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03:25
trying on different new ideas for size,
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去嘗試唔同嘅諗法
去模擬一下場景
03:27
playing out scenarios.
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呢種思維其實唔算新
03:29
This kind of thinking isn't new.
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03:31
Philiosophers like Hume and Descartes and Hobbes
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哲學家，例如休謨、笛卡兒以及霍布斯
03:34
saw things similarly.
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亦都有類似嘅觀點
03:35
They thought that mental images and ideas
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佢哋覺得心理影像同諗法
03:38
were actually the same thing.
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本質上係同一樣嘢
今日會有人對呢種觀點有異議
03:40
There are those today that dispute that,
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03:43
and lots of debates about how the mind works,
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亦都有好多辯論拗話意識點樣運作
03:46
but for me it's simple:
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但對我嚟講成件事好簡單啫
03:48
Mental images, for most of us,
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心理影像對於大多數我哋嚟講
03:50
are central in inventive and creative thinking.
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都係創造力同創意思維嘅地方
03:54
So after several years,
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所以幾年後我調整咗我自己
03:56
I tuned myself up and I have lots of great,
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我得到好多好好
非常生動、精美嘅心理影像
非常生動、精美嘅心理影像
03:59
really vivid mental images with a lot of sophistication
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04:02
and the analytical backbone behind them.
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同背後嘅分析
04:05
And so now I'm working on,
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所以我宜家正喺度研究
04:06
how can I get these mental images in my mind
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點樣令我腦海呢啲心理影像
04:11
out to my computer screen faster?
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更快地顯示喺電腦屏幕上
04:13
Can you imagine, if you will,
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唔知道你哋有冇諗過
04:16
a movie director being able to use
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一個電影導演能夠
剩係用佢嘅想像力指揮成個世界？
剩係用佢嘅想像力指揮成個世界？
04:18
her imagination alone to
direct the world in front of her?
direct the world in front of her?
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04:21
Or a musician to get the music out of his head?
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或者一個音樂家可以
將佢腦入邊嘅歌搬出嚟
將佢腦入邊嘅歌搬出嚟
04:25
There are incredible possibilities with this
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如果呢樣嘢可以俾創意嘅人
用光速分享佢哋唸嘅嘢
用光速分享佢哋唸嘅嘢
04:27
as a way for creative people
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呢樣嘢係無限可能
04:29
to share at light speed.
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04:32
And the truth is, the remaining bottleneck
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事實上要完成呢個可能性所遇到嘅瓶頸
04:34
in being able to do this
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04:35
is just upping the resolution of brain scan systems.
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就係提升腦掃描系統嘅解像度
04:39
So let me show you why I think
we're pretty close to getting there
we're pretty close to getting there
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宜家等我用最近兩個實驗話俾你聽
點解我哋就快可以跨過呢個樽頸啦
04:42
by sharing with you two recent experiments
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呢兩個實驗係由
兩個最頂尖嘅神經科學小組做
兩個最頂尖嘅神經科學小組做
04:44
from two top neuroscience groups.
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04:47
Both used fMRI technology --
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佢哋都用咗 fMRI 技術
04:49
functional magnetic resonance imaging technology --
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即係功能性磁力共振造影技術
04:51
to image the brain,
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掃描大腦
04:53
and here is a brain scan set from Giorgio Ganis
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呢張係哈佛大學嘅 Giorgio Ganis 同佢嘅同事
04:56
and his colleagues at Harvard.
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製成大腦掃描圖
04:58
And the left-hand column shows a brain scan
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左邊係當一個人睇圖片時嘅腦部情況
05:01
of a person looking at an image.
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05:04
The middle column shows the brainscan
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中間係同一個人諗返嗰張圖片時
腦部嘅情況
腦部嘅情況
05:06
of that same individual
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05:08
imagining, seeing that same image.
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05:11
And the right column was created
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右邊係左邊幅圖減去中間幅圖得出嘅
05:13
by subtracting the middle
column from the left column,
column from the left column,
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05:17
showing the difference to be nearly zero.
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兩者幾乎冇分別
05:20
This was repeated on lots of different individuals
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同一個實驗無論係
用唔同人、唔同嘅相都得出同一個結果
05:22
with lots of different images,
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05:25
always with a similar result.
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05:27
The difference between seeing an image
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所以睇一個影像同想像嗰一個影像
05:29
and imagining seeing that same image
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05:31
is next to nothing.
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其實係沒有分別嘅
05:34
Next let me share with you one other experiment,
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我再講多一個實驗
呢個實驗係嚟自 Jack Gallant
喺加州大學柏克萊分校嘅實驗室
喺加州大學柏克萊分校嘅實驗室
05:36
this from Jack Gallant's lab at Cal Berkeley.
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05:41
They've been able to decode brainwaves
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佢哋能夠將腦電波轉做可認知嘅影像
05:43
into recognizable visual fields.
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05:45
So let me set this up for you.
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等我準備好先
05:47
In this experiment, individuals were shown
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喺實驗裏面
參加者要睇好幾百小時嘅 YouTube 影片
05:49
hundreds of hours of YouTube videos
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05:51
while scans were made of their brains
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同時佢哋腦部會被掃描
05:53
to create a large library of their brain reacting
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用嚟整一個有關佢哋腦部
對影片次序嘅反應嘅大型資料庫
對影片次序嘅反應嘅大型資料庫
05:56
to video sequences.
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05:59
Then a new movie was shown with new images,
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跟住一條新影片會播俾佢哋睇
裏面有新圖片、新人物、新動物
06:02
new people, new animals in it,
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06:04
and a new scan set was recorded.
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仲會有新嘅掃描
06:06
The computer, using brain scan data alone,
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電腦運用腦部掃描數據
嚟解讀新嘅大腦掃描
嚟解讀新嘅大腦掃描
06:09
decoded that new brain scan
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06:11
to show what it thought the
individual was actually seeing.
individual was actually seeing.
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然後電腦顯示佢認為
參加者實際睇到嘅嘢
參加者實際睇到嘅嘢
06:16
On the right-hand side, you
see the computer's guess,
see the computer's guess,
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右手邊你會睇到嚟自電腦嘅推算
06:19
and on the left-hand side, the presented clip.
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左邊就係實際上放映嘅片
06:23
This is the jaw-dropper.
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呢個結果真係令人呆咗
06:25
We are so close to being able to do this.
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我哋嘅技術已經非常接近
06:28
We just need to up the resolution.
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我哋只需要提高解像度
06:31
And now remember that when you see an image
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而且記住當你睇到一個圖像嘅時候
同你想像同一個圖像嘅時候
06:34
versus when you imagine that same image,
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06:36
it creates the same brain scan.
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你嘅大腦都會產生相同嘅掃描圖
06:40
So this was done with the highest-resolution
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大腦掃描講緊已經係用緊
最高像素嘅大腦掃描系統
最高像素嘅大腦掃描系統
06:42
brain scan systems available today,
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06:45
and their resolution has increased really
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近幾年大腦掃描系統嘅解像度
提高咗一千倍
提高咗一千倍
06:46
about a thousandfold in the last several years.
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06:50
Next we need to increase the resolution
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下一步就係再提升解像度一千倍
06:52
another thousandfold
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06:54
to get a deeper glimpse.
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令我哋可以睇到更深入嘅嘢
06:56
How do we do that?
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我哋點樣做好？
06:57
There's a lot of techniques in this approach.
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有好多技術可以做到
07:00
One way is to crack open your
skull and put in electrodes.
skull and put in electrodes.
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其中一個方法係撬開你嘅頭顱
然後擺電極入去
然後擺電極入去
但我唔贊成呢種做法
07:03
I'm not for that.
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07:05
There's a lot of new imaging techniques
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宜家已經有好多造影技術提出咗
07:08
being proposed, some even by me,
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有啲我都有份提出
07:10
but given the recent success of MRI,
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但因為宜家 MRI 技術嘅成功
07:13
first we need to ask the question,
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我哋首先要諗一個問題
07:15
is it the end of the road with this technology?
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呢種技術係咪已經過時呢？
07:17
Conventional wisdom says the only way
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傳統理論嚟講
唯一能夠提高解像度嘅方法
唯一能夠提高解像度嘅方法
07:20
to get higher resolution is with bigger magnets,
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係採用更加大嘅磁鐵
07:22
but at this point bigger magnets
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但係更大嘅磁鐵
07:24
only offer incremental resolution improvements,
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只係提高解像度少少
而唔能夠達到我哋需要嘅好一千倍
07:28
not the thousandfold we need.
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07:30
I'm putting forward an idea:
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我諗與其用大舊磁鐵
07:32
instead of bigger magnets,
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07:34
let's make better magnets.
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不如改善磁鐵嘅質素
宜家納米科學有新嘅突破
07:36
There's some new technology breakthroughs
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07:38
in nanoscience
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新技術可以用喺新型磁鐵嘅構造上面
07:40
when applied to magnetic structures
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07:42
that have created a whole new class of magnets,
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07:45
and with these magnets, we can lay down
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有咗呢啲磁鐵
我哋可以做到非常仔細
睇曬成個大腦嘅磁場造影
睇曬成個大腦嘅磁場造影
07:47
very fine detailed magnetic field patterns
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07:49
throughout the brain,
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07:51
and using those, we can actually create
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用呢啲工具
07:54
holographic-like interference structures
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我哋可以整到全息樣嘅干預結構
07:57
to get precision control over many patterns,
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嚟準確控制好多病情
08:00
as is shown here by shifting things.
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就好似呢度見到嘅影像轉換咁
08:03
We can create much more complicated structures
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我哋可以整到更複雜
帶有少少唔同排列方式嘅結構
帶有少少唔同排列方式嘅結構
08:06
with slightly different arrangements,
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08:08
kind of like making Spirograph.
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有啲似生產呼吸運動記錄器
08:11
So why does that matter?
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噉點解呢個會咁重要？
08:13
A lot of effort in MRI over the years
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過去幾年喺 MRI 嘅努力
08:16
has gone into making really big,
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一直係整更大嘅磁鐵，係吧
08:19
really huge magnets, right?
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08:21
But yet most of the recent advances
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但係至今大部份解像度嘅增加
08:24
in resolution have actually come from
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都係嚟自MRI 系統
FM 無線電頻發射器同接收器裡面
FM 無線電頻發射器同接收器裡面
08:26
ingeniously clever encoding and decoding solutions
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08:30
in the F.M. radio frequency transmitters and receivers
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08:33
in the MRI systems.
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非常勁嘅加密同解密方法
08:36
Let's also, instead of a uniform magnetic field,
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與其用均勻磁場
同埋喺 FM 無線頻率之外
同埋喺 FM 無線頻率之外
08:39
put down structured magnetic patterns
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不如用有結構嘅磁模板
08:42
in addition to the F.M. radio frequencies.
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所以我哋通過結合磁規律
08:45
So by combining the magnetics patterns
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08:47
with the patterns in the F.M. radio frequencies
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同 FM 無線電頻處理嘅規律嚟
08:50
processing which can massively increase
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大幅度增加一個掃描
入面可以獲得嘅資訊
入面可以獲得嘅資訊
08:52
the information that we can extract
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08:54
in a single scan.
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08:57
And on top of that, we can then layer
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除此之外
因為關於大腦結構
同記憶嘅知識不斷增加
同記憶嘅知識不斷增加
08:59
our ever-growing knowledge
of brain structure and memory
of brain structure and memory
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我哋可以做到
需要嘅千倍解像度增加
需要嘅千倍解像度增加
09:03
to create a thousandfold increase that we need.
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09:07
And using fMRI, we should be able to measure
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運用 fMRI 我哋應該可以量度
09:10
not just oxygenated blood flow,
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唔單止含氧血嘅流量
09:12
but the hormones and neurotransmitters
I've talked about
I've talked about
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以至我之前所講嘅荷爾蒙同神經傳遞素
09:15
and maybe even the direct neural activity,
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可能甚至係直接嘅神經活動
09:17
which is the dream.
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——我哋想做到嘅一個夢想
09:19
We're going to be able to dump our ideas
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我哋將來可以直接將我哋嘅想法
轉落去數碼媒體
轉落去數碼媒體
09:21
directly to digital media.
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09:24
Could you imagine if we could leapfrog language
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你可唔可以想像到
如果我哋唔需要用語言
如果我哋唔需要用語言
09:26
and communicate directly with human thought?
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只需要用大腦嘅思想
兩個人都可以傾到計？
兩個人都可以傾到計？
09:31
What would we be capable of then?
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我哋如果真係咁嘅話可以做到啲咩？
09:34
And how will we learn to deal
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我哋應該點樣面對
每個人未經過濾嘅諗法？
每個人未經過濾嘅諗法？
09:36
with the truths of unfiltered human thought?
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09:41
You think the Internet was big.
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你認為網絡係好大
09:43
These are huge questions.
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但呢啲都係需要認真研究嘅問題
09:46
It might be irresistible as a tool
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可能網絡真係一個好吸引嘅工具
09:48
to amplify our thinking and communication skills.
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去加強我哋思考同溝通嘅技巧
的而且確，相同嘅工具
09:52
And indeed, this very same tool
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09:54
may prove to lead to the cure
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磁力造影將會證明可以用於
阿爾海默症以及相關疾病嘅治療
阿爾海默症以及相關疾病嘅治療
09:56
for Alzheimer's and similar diseases.
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我哋冇其他太多辦法，只有行呢條路
09:59
We have little option but to open this door.
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唔理點樣，或者有一年
10:03
Regardless, pick a year --
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呢個治療技術會唔會
5 年或者 15 年之內發生？
5 年或者 15 年之內發生？
10:04
will it happen in five years or 15 years?
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10:06
It's hard to imagine it taking much longer.
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如果要用更多時間就有啲失望
10:11
We need to learn how to take this step together.
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我哋需要一齊去實現佢
10:15
Thank you.
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多謝
（掌聲）
10:17
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Mary Lou Jepsen - Inventor, entrepreneur, optical physicistMary Lou Jepsen pushes the edges of what's possible in optics and physics, to make new types of devices, leading teams and working with huge factories that can ship vast volumes of these strange, new things.
Why you should listen
Mary Lou Jepsen is one of the world’s foremost engineers and scientists in optics, imaging and display -- inventing at the hairy, crazy edge of what physics allows, aiming to do what seems impossible and leading teams to achieve these in volume in partnership with the world’s largest manufacturers, in Asia. She has more than 200 patents published or issued.
Jepsen is the founder and CEO of Openwater, which aims to use new optics to see inside our bodies. Previously a top technical exec at Google, Facebook, Oculus and Intel, her startups include One Laptop Per Child, where she was CTO and chief architect on the $100 laptop. She studied at Brown, MIT and Rhode Island School of Design, and she was a professor at both MITs -- the one in Cambridge, Mass., and the Royal Melbourne Institute of Tech in Australia.
Mary Lou Jepsen | Speaker | TED.com