TED2014
Stanley McChrystal: The military case for sharing knowledge
斯坦利·迈克克里斯托: 知识共享的军方案例
Filmed:
Readability: 4
1,059,925 views
当斯坦利·迈克克里斯托将军在2003年开始与基地组织作战时，信息和机密是他指挥行动的生命线。但随着非常规战争的不断深入，他开始反思这种将重要信息保密的传统做法，他觉得这是一种误导，实际上起到了反作用。在他简短而有力的演讲中，迈克克里斯托以实例讲解了主动知识共享。
Stanley McChrystal - Military leader
General Stanley McChrystal is the former commander of U.S. and International forces in Afghanistan. A four-star general, he is credited for creating a revolution in warfare that fuses intelligence and operations. Full bio
General Stanley McChrystal is the former commander of U.S. and International forces in Afghanistan. A four-star general, he is credited for creating a revolution in warfare that fuses intelligence and operations. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
When I was a young officer, they told me
0
656
1970
当我还是个年轻军官的时候，
00:14
to follow my instincts,
1
2626
2268
他们告诉我要按本能行事，
00:16
to go with my gut,
2
4894
2256
就是相信我的直觉。
00:19
and what I've learned
3
7150
2010
而我学到的则是，
00:21
is that often our instincts are wrong.
4
9160
4384
我们的本能往往是错的。
00:25
In the summer of 2010,
5
13544
3176
在2010年夏天，
00:28
there was a massive leak of classified documents
6
16720
3339
发生了一起大规模泄密事件，
00:32
that came out of the Pentagon.
7
20059
2973
从五角大楼泄露出了大量机密文件，
00:35
It shocked the world,
8
23032
1816
震惊了全世界，
00:36
it shook up the American government,
9
24848
1575
也震动了美国政府。
00:38
and it made people ask a lot of questions,
10
26423
2153
人们因此而提出许多问题，
00:40
because the sheer amount of information
11
28576
2681
因为信息泄露的规模，
00:43
that was let out, and the potential impacts,
12
31257
3575
以及它的潜在影响，
00:46
were significant.
13
34832
2576
是非常惊人的。
00:49
And one of the first questions we asked ourselves
14
37408
4022
我们对此自我检讨，当务之急的第一个问题，
00:53
was why would a young soldier have access
15
41430
2718
就是为什么一个年轻士兵
00:56
to that much information?
16
44148
2932
会有权限可以接触到这么多的信息？
00:59
Why would we let sensitive things
17
47080
2526
为什么我们会让这些敏感信息
01:01
be with a relatively young person?
18
49606
4158
透露给一个相对来说，比较年轻的人？
01:05
In the summer of 2003, I was assigned to command
19
53764
3122
在2003年夏天，我被任命为负责指挥
01:08
a special operations task force,
20
56886
2504
一个特种作战部队，
01:11
and that task force was spread across the Mideast
21
59390
2140
该部队当时正在整个中东地区
01:13
to fight al Qaeda.
22
61530
1588
打击基地组织。
01:15
Our main effort was inside Iraq,
23
63118
2997
我们的主要任务集中在伊拉克境内，
01:18
and our specified mission
24
66115
1967
而具体的任务目标就是
01:20
was to defeat al Qaeda in Iraq.
25
68082
1854
打垮伊拉克境内的基地组织。
01:21
For almost five years I stayed there,
26
69936
3104
我在那里呆了将近五年，
01:25
and we focused on fighting a war
27
73040
1810
我们全心全力地投入了一场战争，
01:26
that was unconventional and it was difficult
28
74850
5046
非常规，很艰难，
01:31
and it was bloody
29
79896
1840
而且无比血腥。
01:33
and it often claimed its highest price
30
81736
3094
它常常让无辜者
01:36
among innocent people.
31
84830
3074
付出最高的代价。
01:39
We did everything we could
32
87904
2505
我们尽了一切所能
01:42
to stop al Qaeda
33
90409
1909
去阻止基地组织和来自境外的武装分子，
01:44
and the foreign fighters that
came in as suicide bombers
came in as suicide bombers
34
92318
3285
他们使用自杀式炸弹，
01:47
and as accelerants to the violence.
35
95603
5115
导致暴力进一步升级。
01:52
We honed our combat skills,
36
100718
2022
我们磨炼了战斗技能，
01:54
we developed new equipment,
37
102740
2836
开发了新的装备，
01:57
we parachuted, we helicoptered,
38
105576
2454
我们伞降、机降，
02:00
we took small boats, we drove, and we walked
39
108030
2458
我们乘小艇、开车甚至步行，
02:02
to objectives night after night to stop
40
110488
3010
夜复一夜地追踪目标，
02:05
the killing that this network was putting forward.
41
113498
5352
是为了阻止这个恐怖网络带来的杀戮。
02:10
We bled,
42
118850
2540
我们流血，
02:13
we died,
43
121390
1489
我们牺牲，
02:14
and we killed to stop that organization
44
122879
4851
我们杀人，
02:19
from the violence that they were putting
45
127730
1743
是为了阻止这个组织带来的暴力，
02:21
largely against the Iraqi people.
46
129473
4229
而它在很大程度上是针对伊拉克人民的。
02:25
Now, we did what we knew,
47
133702
2578
现在，我们做了我们一直熟知的事，
02:28
how we had grown up, and
one of the things that we knew,
one of the things that we knew,
48
136280
2914
有了它我们才得以成长，其中之一就是，
02:31
that was in our DNA, was secrecy.
49
139194
3126
它在我们的DNA里，就是机密，
02:34
It was security. It was protecting information.
50
142320
1917
就是安全，就是保护信息。
02:36
It was the idea that information was the lifeblood
51
144237
2813
就是这样一种看法，信息就是生命线，
02:39
and it was what would protect and keep people safe.
52
147050
3640
它能保护人们的安全。
02:42
And we had a sense that,
53
150690
1895
并且我们觉得，
02:44
as we operated within our organizations,
54
152585
2011
既然我们是在我们的组织之内运作，
02:46
it was important to keep information
55
154596
1918
把信息放在组织之内的保险柜里
02:48
in the silos within the organizations,
56
156514
2311
就极为重要，
02:50
particularly only give information
57
158825
2914
特别是，信息只能给那些
02:53
to people had a demonstrated need to know.
58
161739
4192
已经证明了需要知道的人，
02:57
But the question often came, who needed to know?
59
165931
4639
但问题常常随之而来，谁需要知道？
03:02
Who needed, who had to have the information
60
170570
3363
谁需要，谁应当知道这些信息？
03:05
so that they could do the important
parts of the job that you needed?
parts of the job that you needed?
61
173933
3071
这样你所需要的工作的重要部分
才能交给他们来完成？
才能交给他们来完成？
03:09
And in a tightly coupled world,
62
177004
2052
在这样一个人与人紧密相连的世界，
03:11
that's very hard to predict.
63
179056
2798
这太难以预计了。
03:13
It's very hard to know who needs to have information
64
181854
2944
谁需要拥有信息谁不需要，
03:16
and who doesn't.
65
184798
1507
实在是难以知晓。
03:18
I used to deal with intelligence agencies,
66
186305
1979
我过去跟情报机构打交道，
03:20
and I'd complain that they weren't
sharing enough intelligence,
sharing enough intelligence,
67
188284
2167
我常抱怨他们情报共享做得不够，
03:22
and with a straight face, they'd
look at me and they'd say,
look at me and they'd say,
68
190451
2390
然后他们就面无表情地看着我说，
03:24
"What aren't you getting?" (Laughter)
69
192841
2147
“有什么你不知道的吗？”（笑声）
03:26
I said, "If I knew that, we wouldn't have a problem."
70
194988
5482
我说，“如果我知道了，我们就没问题了。”
03:32
But what we found is we had to change.
71
200470
1602
但我们发现必须有所改变，
03:34
We had to change our culture about information.
72
202072
2177
我们必须改变我们在信息上一直以来的做法，
03:36
We had to knock down walls. We had to share.
73
204249
2117
我们必须打破围墙，我们必须共享。
03:38
We had to change from who needs to know
74
206366
3068
我们必须面对现实，从谁需要知道，
03:41
to the fact that who doesn't know,
75
209434
2123
改变为：谁还不知道，
03:43
and we need to tell, and tell
them as quickly as we can.
them as quickly as we can.
76
211557
3234
我们需要告诉他们，越早越好。
03:46
It was a significant culture shift for an organization
77
214791
3126
对于一个从骨子里视机密为生命的组织来说，
03:49
that had secrecy in its DNA.
78
217917
5324
这是一个重大的观念转变。
03:55
We started by doing things, by building,
79
223241
2276
我们开始做些事情，开始建设，
03:57
not working in offices,
80
225517
1705
并不是蹲在办公室里，
03:59
knocking down walls, working in things we called
81
227222
1665
而是打破围墙，
04:00
situation awareness rooms,
82
228887
2458
我们工作的地方称为“状况知觉室”。
04:03
and in the summer of 2007,
83
231345
2476
在2007年夏天，
04:05
something happened which demonstrated this.
84
233821
1623
发生了一件事，证明了这一点。
04:07
We captured the personnel records
85
235444
2192
我们捕捉到了一些人员名单，
04:09
for the people who were bringing foreign fighters
86
237636
2200
这些人正是把外国武装分子
04:11
into Iraq.
87
239836
2155
带进伊拉克的人。
04:13
And when we got the personnel records, typically,
88
241991
1848
当我们拿到名单的时候，
04:15
we would have hidden these,
89
243839
1314
通常情况下，我们会藏起来，
04:17
shared them with a few intelligence agencies,
90
245153
2338
仅在少数情报机构内分享，
04:19
and then try to operate with them.
91
247491
1796
然后设法与他们一起行动。
04:21
But as I was talking to my intelligence officer,
92
249287
2038
但我那时正跟我的情报官员谈话，
04:23
I said, "What do we do?"
93
251325
850
我说，“我们要怎么做？”
04:24
And he said, "Well, you found them." Our command.
94
252175
3026
他说，“嗯，你已经找到了。”我们做主。
04:27
"You can just declassify them."
95
255201
2364
“你只要解除保密就行了。”
04:29
And I said, "Well, can we declassify them?
96
257565
1648
我说，“那，我们可以解除保密吗？
04:31
What if the enemy finds out?"
97
259213
1010
如果敌人知道了呢？”
04:32
And he says, "They're their personnel records."
98
260223
2612
然后他说，“那是他们的人员名单啊。”
04:34
(Laughter)
99
262835
1400
（笑声）
04:36
So we did,
100
264235
1082
于是我们就这么做了，
04:37
and a lot of people got upset about that,
101
265317
2034
许多人对此感到不满，
04:39
but as we passed that information around,
102
267351
2484
不过，随着我们把信息传播开来，
04:41
suddenly you find that information is only of value
103
269835
2890
突然间，你就发现信息的唯一价值在于
04:44
if you give it to people who have the ability
104
272725
1856
你把它给了能用它来做些事情的人。
04:46
to do something with it.
105
274581
2138
你把它给了能用它来做些事情的人。
04:48
The fact that I know something has zero value
106
276719
2126
有的人掌握了某些信息就可以把事情做得更好，
04:50
if I'm not the person who can actually
107
278845
1488
如果我不是这样的人，
04:52
make something better because of it.
108
280333
1874
那我知道这些事也没有价值。
04:54
So as a consequence, what we did was
109
282207
1876
所以接下来我们做的事情就是，
04:56
we changed the idea of information,
110
284083
3110
我们改变了对信息的观念，
04:59
instead of knowledge is power,
111
287193
2284
不再是知识就是力量，
05:01
to one where sharing is power.
112
289477
2946
而是共享才是力量。
05:04
It was the fundamental shift,
113
292423
1972
这是根本转变，
05:06
not new tactics, not new weapons,
114
294395
2338
并非新的战术，不是新的武器，
05:08
not new anything else.
115
296733
1304
也不是别的什么东西。
05:10
It was the idea that we were now part of a team
116
298037
2778
它是一种观念，就是如今我们都是团队的一份子，
05:12
in which information became the essential link
117
300815
2348
在这之中，
信息成为了将我们联接起来的根本要素，
信息成为了将我们联接起来的根本要素，
05:15
between us, not a block between us.
118
303163
4498
而不是彼此之间的阻碍。
05:19
And I want everybody to take a deep breath
119
307661
2582
我想每个人都深吸一口气，
05:22
and let it out,
120
310243
2122
然后呼出来，
05:24
because in your life, there's going to be information
121
312365
1934
因为在你的生活中，
05:26
that leaks out you're not going to like.
122
314299
2332
将会有信息泄露出来，
而你并不喜欢这样。
而你并不喜欢这样。
05:28
Somebody's going to get my college grades out,
123
316631
2246
有人会把我的大学成绩单翻出来，
05:30
a that's going to be a disaster. (Laughter)
124
318877
4027
那将会是场灾难。（笑声）
05:34
But it's going to be okay, and I will tell you that
125
322904
3369
但这终究不会有事，我要告诉你，
05:38
I am more scared of the bureaucrat
126
326273
3220
我更害怕的是
05:41
that holds information in a desk drawer
127
329493
2452
把信息放进抽屉或是保险箱的官僚，
05:43
or in a safe than I am of someone who leaks,
128
331945
2796
而不是泄露出来的某个人，
05:46
because ultimately, we'll be better off if we share.
129
334741
2936
因为最终来说，如果我们共享它，我们才会更好。
05:49
Thank you.
130
337677
1760
谢谢大家。
05:51
(Applause)
131
339437
4402
（掌声）
05:57
Helen Walters: So I don't know if
you were here this morning,
you were here this morning,
132
345761
1576
海伦·沃尔特斯：假如说，你今天早上在这里，
05:59
if you were able to catch Rick Ledgett,
133
347337
2300
假如你刚好遇到了理查德·莱吉特，
06:01
the deputy director of the NSA
134
349637
1832
国家安全局的代理局长，
06:03
who was responding to Edward
Snowden's talk earlier this week.
Snowden's talk earlier this week.
135
351469
3664
对于爱德华·斯诺登本周早些时候的演讲，
他做出了回应，
他做出了回应，
06:07
I just wonder, do you think the American government
136
355133
2312
我想知道，你是否认为
06:09
should give Edward Snowden amnesty?
137
357445
2688
美国政府应当赦免爱德华·斯诺登？
06:12
Stanley McChrystal: I think that
Rick said something very important.
Rick said something very important.
138
360133
2448
斯坦利·迈克克里斯托：我认为
理查德说了很重要的事情。
理查德说了很重要的事情。
06:14
We, most people, don't know all the facts.
139
362581
2620
我们，大多数人，并不知道事情的方方面面，
06:17
I think there are two parts of this.
140
365201
1352
我认为这件事有两方面，
06:18
Edward Snowden shined a
light on an important need
light on an important need
141
366553
3740
爱德华·斯诺登让世界意识到了一项重要需求，
06:22
that people had to understand.
142
370293
1490
人们对此必须有所认识。
06:23
He also took a lot of documents that he didn't have
143
371783
2982
他也取得了许多文件，
06:26
the knowledge to know the importance of,
144
374765
2592
而他并不具备足够的知识，
来了解这些文件的重要性，
来了解这些文件的重要性，
06:29
so I think we need to learn the facts about this case
145
377357
2433
所以我认为，
06:31
before we make snap judgments
146
379790
1547
在我们很快对爱德华·斯诺登一事做出判断之前，
06:33
about Edward Snowden.
147
381337
2148
有必要先了解这一事件的两个事实。
06:35
HW: Thank you so much. Thank you.
148
383485
2184
海伦·沃尔特斯：非常感谢，谢谢。
06:37
(Applause)
149
385669
1918
（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Stanley McChrystal - Military leaderGeneral Stanley McChrystal is the former commander of U.S. and International forces in Afghanistan. A four-star general, he is credited for creating a revolution in warfare that fuses intelligence and operations.
Why you should listen
With a remarkable record of achievement, General Stanley McChrystal has been praised for creating a revolution in warfare that fused intelligence and operations. A four-star general, he is the former commander of U.S. and international forces in Afghanistan and the former leader of Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC), which oversees the military’s most sensitive forces. McChrystal’s leadership of JSOC is credited with the December 2003 capture of Saddam Hussein and the June 2006 location and killing of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq. McChrystal, a former Green Beret, is known for his candor.
After McChrystal graduated from West Point, he was commissioned as an infantry officer, and spent much of his career commanding special operations and airborne infantry units. During the Persian Gulf War, McChrystal served in a Joint Special Operations Task Force and later commanded the 75th Ranger Regiment. He completed year-long fellowships at Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government in 1997 and in 2000 at the Council on Foreign Relations. In 2002, he was appointed chief of staff of military operations in Afghanistan. Two years later, McChrystal was selected to deliver nationally televised Pentagon briefings about military operations in Iraq. From 2003 to 2008, McChrystal commanded JSOC and was responsible for leading the nation’s deployed military counter-terrorism efforts around the globe. He assumed command of all International Forces in Afghanistan in June 2009. President Obama’s order for an additional 30,000 troops to Afghanistan was based on McChrystal’s assessment of the war there. McChrystal retired from the military in August 2010.
Stanley McChrystal | Speaker | TED.com