TED2003
Lee Smolin: Science and democracy
李·思莫林:科学与民主的相似之处
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物理学家李·思莫林讲述科学界如何进展:正如他所说,“我们竭尽所能地去斗争和辩论”,但同时大家又在这一观点上达成一致,即下一代科学家将对我们这代科学家的正误作出裁决.他说,民主也是同样的发展规律.
Lee Smolin - Physicist
Lee Smolin is a theoretical physicist, working mainly in the field of quantum gravity. He's a founding member of the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Canada, and the author of The Trouble With Physics. Full bio
Lee Smolin is a theoretical physicist, working mainly in the field of quantum gravity. He's a founding member of the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Canada, and the author of The Trouble With Physics. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
So, about three years ago I was in London,
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我三年以前在伦敦
00:16
and somebody called Howard Burton came to me and said,
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一个名叫霍华德·波顿的人找到我,跟我说
00:21
I represent a group of people,
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我代表一部分人
00:23
and we want to start an institute in theoretical physics.
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我们想成立一个理论物理的研究所
00:27
We have about 120 million dollars, and we want to do it well.
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我们有1200万美元的资金,我们想把它做好
00:32
We want to be in the forefront fields,
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我们希望处在尖端领域
00:34
and we want to do it differently.
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同时,我们会创新,让它与众不同
00:36
We want to get out of this thing
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我们要摆脱
00:38
where the young people have all the ideas, and the old people have all the power
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年轻人充满想象力,但老家伙们掌握着权力
00:41
and decide what science gets done.
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决定科学走向的现象
00:44
It took me about 25 seconds to decide that that was a good idea.
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我思考了25秒钟,觉得这是个好主意
00:47
Three years later, we have the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics
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三年之后,我们在安大略省滑铁卢市成了"周长理论物理研究所"
00:52
in Waterloo, Ontario. It’s the most exciting job I’ve ever had.
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这是所经历过的最棒的工作
00:57
And it’s the first time I’ve had a job where I’m afraid to go away
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我第一次找到一份让我忘我投入的工作,我甚至担心离开它半步
01:01
because of everything that’s going to happen in this week when I’m here.
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因为当我这周在这里,那里任何事情都可能发生
01:05
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
01:07
But in any case, what I’m going to do in my little bit of time
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我要在我有限的演讲时间里
01:11
is take you on a quick tour of some of the things
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带你们快速参观下
01:14
that we talk about and we think about.
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我们在讨论和思考的一切
01:17
So, we think a lot about what really makes science work?
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对于是什么推动科学进步的,我们思考了很多
01:20
The first thing that anybody who knows science,
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首先,不管谁,只要了解科学
01:23
and has been around science,
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跟科学打过交道
01:24
is that the stuff you learn in school as a scientific method
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就会知道,你在学校学习的所谓的科学方法
01:26
is wrong. There is no method.
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是错误的.根本没有方法.
01:29
On the other hand, somehow we manage to reason together
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在另一方面,我们根据不完备的证明
01:33
as a community, from incomplete evidence
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在一起讨论问题
01:36
to conclusions that we all agree about.
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最终达到我们都同意的结论
01:39
And this is, by the way, something that a democratic society also has to do.
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这也是一个民主社会一定会做的事情
01:43
So how does it work?
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那么,这一套方法怎么就行得通呢?
01:45
Well, my belief is that it works
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我认为,这套方法行得通
01:48
because scientists are a community bound together by an ethics.
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是因为科学家是一个通过共同理念联系在一起的群体
01:52
And here are some of the ethical principles.
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这儿列举了一些他们的理念
01:54
I’m not going to read them all to you because I’m not in teacher mode.
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我就不一一读了,毕竟我今天不是来教学的
01:57
I’m in entertain, amaze mode.
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我是来娱乐的
02:00
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
02:03
But one of the principles is that everybody
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但这些理念中有一条
02:07
who is part of the community gets to fight and argue
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即:每一个科学家都会为了他们坚信正确的一切
02:10
as hard as they can for what they believe.
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据理力争,毫不含糊
02:13
But we’re all disciplined by the understanding
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但我们也达成共识
02:16
that the only people who are going to decide, you know,
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即:有资格裁定
02:18
whether I’m right or somebody else is right,
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我的理论是否正确,其他人是否正确的人
02:21
are the people in our community in the next generation,
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只有我们30年后,50年后的
02:24
in 30 and 50 years.
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下一代科学家
02:26
So it’s this combination of respect
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因此,对于传统
02:29
for the tradition and community we’re in,
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和如今科学界的尊重
02:31
and rebellion that the community requires to get anywhere,
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和科学界需要前进所必须的叛逆
02:34
that makes science work.
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这样的结合,推动着科学的发展
02:37
And being in this process of being in a community
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身处在这种发展模式下的学界
02:42
that reasons from shared evidence to conclusions,
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根据共享的条件进行推论,以达到结论
02:46
I believe, teaches us about democracy.
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我相信,这个过程教给我们民主
02:50
Not only is there a relationship between the ethics of science
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不仅仅科学的理念
02:53
and the ethics of being a citizen in democracy,
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和在民主社会中做一个公民的理念相关联
02:56
but there has been, historically, a relationship
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而且,自古以来
02:59
between how people think about space and time, and what the cosmos is,
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人们对空间,时间及宇宙的思考就和
03:05
and how people think about the society that they live in.
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人类考虑如何在社会中生存相关联
03:09
And I want to talk about three stages in that evolution.
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我想讲一下该演变中的3个阶段
03:14
The first science of cosmology that was anything like science
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第一阶段的宇宙科学
03:18
was Aristotelian science, and that was hierarchical.
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是亚里士多德式科学,具有等级观念
03:22
The earth is in the center, then there are these crystal spheres,
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地球位于中心,其次是这些水晶球体
03:26
the sun, the moon, the planets and finally the celestial sphere,
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有太阳,月球,行星,最后是恒星所在的天体
03:30
where the stars are. And everything in this universe has a place.
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在宇宙中的一切事物都有自己固定的位置
03:34
And Aristotle’s law of motion was that everything
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亚里士多德的运动法则认为
03:37
goes to its natural place, which was of course,
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一切事物都各得其所,这当然
03:39
the rule of the society that Aristotle lived in,
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是亚里士多德生活的那个时代的社会法则
03:43
and more importantly, the medieval society that, through Christianity,
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更重要的是,信仰基督教的中世纪社会
03:46
embraced Aristotle and blessed it.
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支持亚里士多德,推崇这样的社会法则
03:50
And the idea is that everything is defined.
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其思想是:相对于这最后一层天体
03:53
Where something is, is defined with respect to this last sphere,
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一切事物都是确定的,事物的位置也是确定的
03:58
the celestial sphere, outside of which is this eternal,
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在天体之外,是永恒完美的天国
04:00
perfect realm, where lives God,
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那里住着上帝
04:03
who is the ultimate judge of everything.
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他将对一切做最终的审判
04:06
So that is both Aristotelian cosmology,
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这就是亚里士多德式的宇宙学
04:08
and in a certain sense, medieval society.
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在一定程度上,也就是中世纪的社会
04:11
Now, in the 17th century there was a revolution in thinking about
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在17世纪,牛顿引起了对于
04:16
space and time and motion and so forth of Newton.
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空间,时间及运动等问题的研究的革命
04:20
And at the same time there was a revolution in social thought
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在同一时期,约翰·洛克和他的合作伙伴
04:24
of John Locke and his collaborators.
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引起了社会思想的变革
04:27
And they were very closely associated.
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这两个变革紧密相关
04:28
In fact, Newton and Locke were friends.
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实际上,牛顿和洛克就是朋友
04:31
Their way of thinking about space and time and motion on the one hand,
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他们一方面对空间,时间,运动进行思考
04:36
and a society on the other hand, were closely related.
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另一方面,对社会进行考量,他们思考的方法密切相关
04:40
And let me show you.
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我解释给你们听
04:41
In a Newtonian universe, there’s no center -- thank you.
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牛顿式的宇宙没有中心----谢谢
04:46
There are particles and they move around
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粒子存在着
04:49
with respect to a fixed, absolute framework of space and time.
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他们相对于一个固定绝对的时空,在其周围运动
04:54
It’s meaningful to say absolutely where something is in space,
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在空间中指出物体的绝对位置并非没有意义
04:58
because that’s defined, not with respect to say, where other things are,
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因为这种定义并不是相对于其它一般的事物
05:02
but with respect to this absolute notion of space,
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而是相对于绝对的宇宙空间而言
05:04
which for Newton was God.
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在牛顿看来,就是相对上帝而言
05:06
Now, similarly, in Locke’s society there are individuals
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同样,类似的,在洛克式的社会中,
05:11
who have certain rights, properties in a formal sense,
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一些人有相对的权利,一定形式的资产
05:14
and those are defined with respect to some absolute,
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另一些人被视为拥有
05:18
abstract notions of rights and justice, and so forth,
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绝对的,抽象的权利,公正,等等等等
05:22
which are independent of what else has happened in the society.
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这些特权独立存在,不受社会规律,任何个人,
05:27
Of who else there is, of the history and so forth.
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历史等的约束
05:30
There is also an omniscient observer
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存在着一位全知全能的观察者
05:33
who knows everything, who is God,
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他通晓一切,他就是上帝
05:35
who is in a certain sense outside the universe,
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他在一定意义上讲,处在宇宙之外
05:38
because he has no role in anything that happens,
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因为他不存在于世界上
05:40
but is in a certain sense everywhere,
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但从另一些角度上看,他又无处不在
05:42
because space is just the way that God knows
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因为通过空间,上帝知道一切事物的确切位置
05:45
where everything is, according to Newton, OK?
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这是根据牛顿的理论得出的
05:49
So this is the foundations of what’s called, traditionally,
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这就是所谓的传统自由政治理论
05:53
liberal political theory and Newtonian physics.
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和牛顿物理学的基础
05:57
Now, in the 20th century we had a revolution
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到了20世纪
06:01
that was initiated at the beginning of the 20th century,
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在20世纪之初,发生了一场变革
06:04
and which is still going on.
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且这场变革直到今天仍在继续
06:07
It was begun with the invention
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相对论和量子物理的诞生
06:08
of relativity theory and quantum theory.
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引发了这场变革
06:11
And merging them together to make the final quantum theory
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两者结合,最终成就了时空量子理论
06:14
of space and time and gravity, is the culmination of that,
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万有引力是这一理论的顶峰
06:19
something that’s going on right now.
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直到今天亦是如此
06:21
And in this universe there’s nothing fixed and absolute. Zilch, OK.
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在宇宙中,没有任何事物是固定绝对的.完全没有
06:26
This universe is described by being a network of relationships.
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宇宙是一张联系的网络
06:31
Space is just one aspect, so there’s no meaning to say
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空间只是一方面,所以
06:34
absolutely where something is.
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说某个事物的绝对位置是没有意义的
06:36
There’s only where it is relative to everything else that is.
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事物的存在只有相对位置
06:39
And this network of relations is ever-evolving.
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而且,这张联系的网络还在不断地发展,
06:43
So we call it a relational universe.
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因此,我们称之为"联系的宇宙"
06:45
All properties of things are about these kinds of relationships.
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所有事物的固有属性都在这些联系之中
06:49
And also, if you’re embedded in such a network of relationships,
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如果你身处在这种联系网络中
06:52
your view of the world has to do with what information
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你的世界观和通过这联系的网络
06:56
comes to you through the network of relations.
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得到的的信息有直接联系
06:58
And there’s no place for an omniscient observer
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不存在全知全能的观察者
07:01
or an outside intelligence knowing everything and making everything.
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通晓一切的局外人,或是独立存在的造物主
07:06
So this is general relativity, this is quantum theory.
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这是一般相对论,量子理论
07:09
This is also, if you talk to legal scholars,
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如果你去问法律专家
07:12
the foundations of new ideas in legal thought.
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这还是新法律理论的基础
07:16
They’re thinking about the same things.
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他们所研究的都是相同的
07:17
And not only that, they make the analogy
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不仅如此,他们还经常
07:20
to relativity theory and cosmology often.
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与相对论,宇宙学进行类比
07:23
So there’s an interesting discussion going on there.
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一个有趣的讨论就此诞生
07:26
This last view of cosmology is called the relational view.
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我们刚刚提到的宇宙学观点是联系的观点
07:31
So the main slogan here is that there’s nothing outside the universe,
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它主要鼓吹的是,宇宙之外别无其他任何东西
07:34
which means that there’s no place
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这意味着,宇宙之外的一切
07:36
to put an explanation for something outside.
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是不可知的
07:40
So in such a relational universe,
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在这样一个联系的宇宙之中
07:42
if you come upon something that’s ordered and structured,
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每当你看见一些有规律可循,结构完整的的事物
07:46
like this device here, or that device there,
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比如这些设备
07:48
or something beautiful, like all the living things,
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或是一些美妙的事物,如所有的生命
07:50
all of you guys in the room --
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以及在座的伙计们
07:53
"guys" in physics, by the way, is a generic term: men and women.
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"伙计们"是泛指,指的是男人和女人
07:58
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
08:01
Then you want to know, you’re a person,
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作为一个人
08:04
you want to know how is it made.
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你会想知道这些事物是怎么产生的
08:06
And in a relational universe the only possible explanation was, somehow it made itself.
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而在联系的宇宙中,唯一可能的解释,就是通过某种途径,它们制造了自己
08:11
There must be mechanisms of self-organization
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在宇宙中一定存在一种自我组织结构
08:14
inside the universe that make things.
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通过该机构,万物被创造
08:16
Because there’s no place to put a maker outside,
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因为不存在宇宙外的造物主
08:19
as there was in the Aristotelian and the Newtonian universe.
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这点不同于亚里士多德式和牛顿式的宇宙
08:23
So in a relational universe we must have processes of self-organization.
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在联系的宇宙中,我们肯定有自己组织的过程
08:27
Now, Darwin taught us that there are processes of self-organization
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达尔文告诉我们,自我组织的过程是存在的
08:33
that suffice to explain all of us and everything we see.
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是丰富的,能够解释我们自己本身,以及我们看到的一切
08:37
So it works. But not only that,
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自我组织理论行得通.不仅如此
08:39
if you think about how natural selection works,
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当你思考自然选择理论如何起作用时
08:43
then it turns out that natural selection
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你会发现,自然选择理论
08:45
would only make sense in such a relational universe.
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只适用于这样一个联系的宇宙
08:49
That is, natural selection works on properties,
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即:自然选择理论适用于物体的固有属性
08:53
like fitness, which are about relationships
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如健康状况关系到
08:56
of some species to some other species.
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物种与物种之间的联系
08:59
Darwin wouldn’t make sense in an Aristotelian universe,
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达尔文理论在亚里士多德的宇宙中讲不通
09:03
and wouldn’t really make sense in a Newtonian universe.
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在牛顿式的宇宙中也讲不通
09:07
So a theory of biology based on natural selection
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因此,基于自然选择的生物学理论
09:12
requires a relational notion of
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需要联系的概念
09:15
what are the properties of biological systems.
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要知道生物系统的固有属性
09:18
And if you push that all the way down, really,
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更进一步
09:21
it makes the best sense in a relational universe
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自然选择法则最适合联系的宇宙
09:24
where all properties are relational.
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在这样的宇宙中,所有的固有属性都是联系的
09:27
Now, not only that, but Einstein taught us
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不仅如此,爱因斯坦告诉我们
09:30
that gravity is the result of the world being relational.
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万有引力是世界万物相互联系的结果
09:36
If it wasn’t for gravity, there wouldn’t be life,
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如果没有引力,生命将不存在
09:39
because gravity causes stars to form and live for a very long time,
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万有引力促使寿命极长的恒星得以形成
09:45
keeping pieces of the world, like the surface of the Earth,
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防止世界各地,如地球表面
09:48
out of thermal equilibrium for billions of years so life can evolve.
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处于热平衡状态,达几十亿年之久,使生命可以发展延续
09:52
In the 20th century,
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在20世纪
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we saw the independent development of two big themes in science.
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我们看到了科学中两大主要课题的独立发展
09:59
In the biological sciences, they explored
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在生物学中,人们探索了
10:03
the implications of the notion that order and complexity
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在自我组织的过程中所呈现的有序性,复杂性
10:06
and structure arise in a self-organized way.
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和结构性的隐含意义
10:10
That was the triumph of Neo-Darwinism and so forth.
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这是新达尔文主义的成就
10:14
And slowly, that idea is leaking out to the cognitive sciences,
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渐渐地,这种理论渗透到了认知学
10:19
the human sciences, economics, et cetera.
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人类学,经济学等领域中
10:23
At the same time, we physicists
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同时,我们物理学家
10:25
have been busy trying to make sense of
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正在努力地理解
10:28
and build on and integrate the discoveries
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研究,整合量子理论
10:31
of quantum theory and relativity.
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和相对论的发现
10:33
And what we’ve been working out is the implications, really,
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根据我们的研究,发现隐含的意义中
10:37
of the idea that the universe is made up of relations.
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的确有宇宙是由联系组成的意思
10:40
21st-century science is going to be driven
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21世纪的科学
10:43
by the integration of these two ideas:
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将被这两种思维的结合体所主导
10:46
the triumph of relational ways of thinking
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一方面是以联系的观点
10:49
about the world, on the one hand,
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思考世界
10:51
and self-organization or Darwinian ways of thinking about the world,
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另一方面是以自我组织或达尔文式的方法
10:54
on the other hand.
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研究世界
10:57
And also, is that in the 21st century
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在21世纪
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our thinking about space and time and cosmology,
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我们对于时空和宇宙的研究
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and our thinking about society are both going to continue to evolve.
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以及我们对社会的研究,都将继续发展
11:09
And what they’re evolving towards is the union
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而他们的发展方向
11:11
of these two big ideas, Darwinism and relationalism.
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就是两大思维的结合:达尔文主义和联系主义
11:15
Now, if you think about democracy from this perspective,
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如果从这一角度看待民主
11:21
a new pluralistic notion of democracy would be one that recognizes
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民主的多元化含义将得以呈现,即:认识到
11:26
that there are many different interests, many different agendas,
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存在多种不同的利益,不同的计划
11:29
many different individuals, many different points of view.
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不同的个人,不同的观点
11:33
Each one is incomplete, because you’re embedded
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每一个都是不完备的,因为我们置身于
11:37
in a network of relationships.
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一个联系的网络中
11:39
Any actor in a democracy is embedded
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任何一个民主的参与者,都身处在
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in a network of relationships.
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一个联系的网络中
11:42
And you understand some things better than other things,
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一些人可能是某些领域的行家
11:45
and because of that there’s a continual jostling
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因此,存在着不断地竞争
11:49
and give and take, which is politics.
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给予和索取,那就是政治
11:54
And politics is, in the ideal sense,
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政治,从理论上讲
11:56
the way in which we continually address
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就是我们不断讨论
12:00
our network of relations in order to achieve
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我们自己本身的联系网络
12:03
a better life and a better society.
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为了走向更好的生活,创造更好的社会
12:06
And I also think that science will never go away and --
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我认为科学永远在我们身边
12:12
I’m finishing on this line.
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我讲完这句就结束
12:14
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
12:18
In fact, I’m finished. Science will never go away.
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实际上,我已经讲完了.科学永远在我们身边.
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Lee Smolin - PhysicistLee Smolin is a theoretical physicist, working mainly in the field of quantum gravity. He's a founding member of the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Canada, and the author of The Trouble With Physics.
Why you should listen
Lee Smolin's bachelor's degree was in physics and philosophy -- twin passions that have complemented one another throughout his blazing career as a theoretical physicist. As his website bio is careful to state, "His main contributions to research so far are to the field of quantum gravity." He's made contributions in many other fields, including cosmology, quantum mechanics, elementary particle physics and theoretical biology, and is the author of (among other books) The Trouble With Physics, a work that questions the very basis of the prevailing string theory.
Taking a step back from work on specific problems in physics, Smolin's work examines the scientific process itself and its place in the world. In all of his three books, Life of the Cosmos, Three Roads to Quantum Gravity and The Trouble with Physics, he wrestles with the philosophical implications of what contemporary physics has shown us to be true. As we come to understand more about how the world works, he asks, how will our worldview change?
Smolin is a founding member of and a researcher at the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics, in Ontario, Canada (whose Executive Director is 2008 TED Prize winner Neil Turok).
Lee Smolin | Speaker | TED.com