TED Salon: Border Stories
Luis H. Zayas: The psychological impact of child separation at the US-Mexico border
路易斯‧札亞斯: 在美墨邊境，孩童被分離所造成的心理衝擊
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心理創傷如何影響孩子正在發展的大腦？在這場很強而有力的演說中，社工路易斯‧札亞斯描述了他在美墨邊境處理難民及尋求庇護的家庭相關的工作。他談到很驚人的分析結果，美國備受爭議的拘留和孩童分離政策會帶來長期的衝擊——也提出美國如何能做得更好的實際步驟。
Luis H. Zayas - Social worker, psychologist, researcher
Luis H. Zayas remains a proud active mental health practitioner through his evaluations of immigrant children and families facing deportation, and of refugee and asylum-seeking mothers and children in detention centers. Full bio
Luis H. Zayas remains a proud active mental health practitioner through his evaluations of immigrant children and families facing deportation, and of refugee and asylum-seeking mothers and children in detention centers. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
For over 40 years, I've been
a clinical social worker
a clinical social worker
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我擔任臨床社工及發展心理學家
00:16
and a developmental psychologist.
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已經超過四十年。
00:18
And it seemed almost natural
for me to go into the helping professions.
for me to go into the helping professions.
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對我來說，進入助人的職業
是一件很自然的事。
是一件很自然的事。
00:22
My parents had taught me
to do good for others.
to do good for others.
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我父母教我要為他人行善。
00:26
And so I devoted my career
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所以我的職涯都是在
00:29
to working with families
in some of the toughest circumstances:
in some of the toughest circumstances:
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協助境況最艱苦的一些家庭：
00:32
poverty, mental illness,
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貧困、心理疾病、
00:35
immigration, refugees.
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移民、難民。
00:38
And for all those years,
I've worked with hope and with optimism.
I've worked with hope and with optimism.
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這些年來，我都帶著
希望和樂觀在工作。
希望和樂觀在工作。
00:43
In the past five years, though,
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不過，在過去五年，
00:45
my hope and my optimism
have been put to the test.
have been put to the test.
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我的希望和我的樂觀受到了考驗。
00:50
I've been so deeply disappointed
in the way the United States government
in the way the United States government
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讓我深深失望的是美國政府
00:54
is treating families who are coming
to our southern border,
to our southern border,
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對待來到我們南方邊境
尋求庇護的家庭的方式。
尋求庇護的家庭的方式。
00:59
asking for asylum --
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01:01
desperate parents with children,
from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras,
from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras,
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絕望的父母，帶著他們的孩子，
來自薩爾瓦多、
瓜地馬拉、宏都拉斯，
瓜地馬拉、宏都拉斯，
01:07
who only want to bring their kids
to safety and security.
to safety and security.
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他們只想要把孩子帶到安全的地方。
01:11
They are fleeing some of
the worst violence in the world.
the worst violence in the world.
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他們在躲避世界上最可怖的暴力。
01:14
They've been attacked by gangs,
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他們受到幫派攻擊、
01:16
assaulted, raped, extorted, threatened.
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施暴、強暴、勒索、威脅。
01:20
They have faced death.
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他們面臨過死亡。
01:22
And they can't turn to their police
because the police are complicit,
because the police are complicit,
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他們無法去找警察，
因為警察參與同謀、
因為警察參與同謀、
01:27
corrupt, ineffective.
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腐敗、無效率。
01:29
Then they get to our border,
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接著，他們到了我們的邊界，
01:32
and we put them in detention centers,
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我們把他們送入拘留中心、監獄，
01:34
prisons, as if they were common criminals.
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當成一般罪犯。
01:39
Back in 2014, I met some of
the first children in detention centers.
the first children in detention centers.
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2014 年時，我見過
拘留中心的第一批孩童。
拘留中心的第一批孩童。
01:46
And I wept.
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我落淚了。
01:48
I sat in my car afterwards and I cried.
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事後我坐在我的車裡，哭了出來。
01:53
I was seeing some of the worst
suffering I'd ever known,
suffering I'd ever known,
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這是我見過最糟糕的苦難之一，
01:56
and it went against everything
I believed in my country,
I believed in my country,
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這個做法違背了
我對我的國家所相信的一切，
我對我的國家所相信的一切，
01:59
the rule of law
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法規，
02:02
and everything my parents taught me.
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以及我父母教我的一切。
02:06
The way the United States
has handled the immigrants
has handled the immigrants
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過去五年間，美國處理這些到美國
尋找庇護的移民的方式——
02:11
seeking asylum in our country
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02:13
over the past five years --
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是錯的，根本就是錯的。
02:14
it's wrong, just simply wrong.
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02:18
Tonight, I want to tell you
that children in immigration detention
that children in immigration detention
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今晚，我想要告訴各位，
在移民拘留所中的孩童
02:21
are being traumatized.
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受到了創傷。
02:24
And we are causing the trauma.
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而創傷是我們造成的。
02:28
We in America --
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在美國的我們——
02:29
actually, those of us here tonight --
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其實就連今晚在這裡的我們——
02:32
will not necessarily be on the same page
with respect to immigration.
with respect to immigration.
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對於移民議題都不見得
會有相同看法。
會有相同看法。
02:37
We'll disagree on how we're going
to handle all those people
to handle all those people
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對於要如何處理這些
想要進入我們國家的人，
想要進入我們國家的人，
02:40
who want to come to our country.
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我們會有歧見。
02:43
Frankly, it doesn't matter to me
whether you're a Republican or a Democrat,
whether you're a Republican or a Democrat,
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坦白說，我不在乎
你是共和黨或民主黨，
你是共和黨或民主黨，
02:46
liberal or conservative.
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自由派或保守派。
02:50
I want secure borders.
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我希望邊界安全。
02:54
I also want to keep the bad actors out.
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我也不想讓行為惡劣的人進來。
02:59
I want national security.
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我希望國家能安全。
03:01
And of course, you'll have your ideas
about those topics, too.
about those topics, too.
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當然，你對這些議題
也會有你自己的看法。
也會有你自己的看法。
03:07
But I think we can agree
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但我想，我們都能認同，
03:09
that America should not be doing harm.
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美國不應該去做造成傷害的事。
03:13
The government, the state, should not
be in the business of hurting children.
be in the business of hurting children.
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政府和國家不應該
做出傷害孩童的事。
做出傷害孩童的事。
03:18
It should be protecting them,
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應該要保護他們，
03:21
no matter whose children they are:
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不論那些孩子是什麼人：
03:23
your children, my grandchildren
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你的孩子、我的孫子，
03:28
and the children of families
just looking for asylum.
just looking for asylum.
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及只是要尋求庇護的家庭的孩子。
03:34
Now, I could tell you story after story
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我有說不完的故事，
03:37
of children who have witnessed
some of the worst violence in the world
some of the worst violence in the world
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都是目擊了世界上
最殘酷的暴力的孩子
最殘酷的暴力的孩子
03:40
and are now sitting in detention.
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現在遭到拘留。
03:42
But two little boys have stayed with me
over these past five years.
over these past five years.
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但，在過去五年，
有兩個小男孩讓我無法忘懷。
有兩個小男孩讓我無法忘懷。
03:48
One of them was Danny.
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其中一個是丹尼。
03:51
Danny was seven and a half years old
when I met him in a detention center
when I met him in a detention center
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2014 年，我在德州
卡恩斯城的拘留中心
卡恩斯城的拘留中心
03:54
in Karnes City, Texas, back in 2014.
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見到丹尼時，他七歲半。
03:56
He was there with his mother
and his brother,
and his brother,
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他的母親及兄弟都在那裡，
他們從宏都拉斯逃出來。
他們從宏都拉斯逃出來。
03:59
and they had fled Honduras.
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04:01
You know, Danny is one of these kids
that you get to love instantly.
that you get to love instantly.
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丹尼是那種你會馬上愛上的孩子。
04:05
He's funny, he's innocent,
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他很有趣，他很純真，
04:08
he's charming and very expressive.
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他很迷人，表情豐富。
04:11
And he's drawing pictures for me,
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他會為我畫畫，
04:14
and one of the pictures he drew for me
was of the Revos Locos.
was of the Revos Locos.
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他為我畫的其中一張圖
是「Revos Locos」。
是「Revos Locos」。
04:18
The Revos Locos: this is the name
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Revos Locos：這是他們替
他們小鎮上的幫派取的名字。
他們小鎮上的幫派取的名字。
04:21
that they gave to gangs
in the town that he was in.
in the town that he was in.
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04:25
I said to Danny,
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我對丹尼說：
04:26
"Danny, what makes them bad guys?"
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「丹尼，他們為什麼是壞人？」
04:30
Danny looked at me with puzzlement.
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丹尼一臉困惑地看著我。
其實，他的表情比較像是：
04:33
I mean, the look was more like,
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04:36
"Are you clueless or just stupid?"
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「你是真的沒頭緒還是太笨？」
04:38
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:40
He leaned in and he whispered,
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他靠向我，低聲說：
04:42
"Don't you see?
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「你不懂嗎？
04:44
They smoke cigarettes."
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他們會抽煙。」
04:45
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:47
"And they drink beer."
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「且他們會喝啤酒。」
04:50
Danny had learned, of course,
about the evils of drinking and smoking.
about the evils of drinking and smoking.
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當然，丹尼已經知道
喝酒和抽菸是不好的事。
喝酒和抽菸是不好的事。
04:55
Then he said, "And they carry guns."
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接著，他說：「他們會帶槍。」
04:58
In one of the pictures,
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在其中一張畫裡，
05:00
the stick figures of the Revos Locos
are shooting at birds and at people.
are shooting at birds and at people.
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用簡筆畫的 Revos Locos，
對著鳥兒和人開槍。
對著鳥兒和人開槍。
05:05
Danny told me about the day his uncle
was killed by those Revos Locos
was killed by those Revos Locos
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丹尼告訴我，他的舅舅
被 Revos Locos 殺害的那天，
被 Revos Locos 殺害的那天，
05:10
and how he ran from his house
to his uncle's farmhouse,
to his uncle's farmhouse,
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他從他的房子跑到他舅舅的農舍，
05:13
only to see his uncle's dead body,
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卻只看到他舅舅的屍體，
05:16
his face disfigured by bullets.
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他的臉被子彈損毀。
05:20
And Danny told me he saw his uncle's teeth
coming out the back of his head.
coming out the back of his head.
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丹尼告訴我，他看到
舅舅的牙齒從頭部後方跑出來。
舅舅的牙齒從頭部後方跑出來。
05:25
He was only six at the time.
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那時他才六歲。
05:27
Sometime after that,
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之後不久，
05:29
one of those Revos Locos
beat little Danny badly, severely,
beat little Danny badly, severely,
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Revos Locos 的一員
將小丹尼打成重傷，
將小丹尼打成重傷，
05:33
and that's when his parents said,
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那時他的父母說：
05:35
"We have got to leave
or they will kill us."
or they will kill us."
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「我們必須離開，
不然就會被他們殺了。」
不然就會被他們殺了。」
05:41
So they set out.
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所以他們出發了。
05:42
But Danny's father was
a single-leg amputee with a crutch,
a single-leg amputee with a crutch,
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但丹尼的父親一隻腳被截肢，
要用拐杖走路，
要用拐杖走路，
05:45
and he couldn't manage the rugged terrain.
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他無法在高低不平的地形上行走。
05:48
So he said to his wife,
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所以他對他的妻子說：
05:51
"Go without me. Take our boys.
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「不要管我，帶著孩子們走吧。
05:55
Save our boys."
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救救我們的孩子。」
05:57
So Mom and the boys set off.
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於是母親和兒子們出發了。
05:58
Danny told me he looked back,
said goodbye to his father,
said goodbye to his father,
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丹尼告訴我，他回頭
向他的父親說再見，
向他的父親說再見，
06:01
looked back a couple of times
until he lost sight of his father.
until he lost sight of his father.
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又回頭看了好幾次，
直到看不見父親的身影。
直到看不見父親的身影。
06:04
In detention, he had not
heard from his father.
heard from his father.
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在被拘留時，他完全
沒有父親的消息。
沒有父親的消息。
06:08
And it's very likely that his father
was killed by the Revos Locos,
was killed by the Revos Locos,
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很有可能他父親已經
被 Revos Locos 殺害，
被 Revos Locos 殺害，
06:11
because he had tried to flee.
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因為他曾經嘗試逃走。
06:14
I can't forget Danny.
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我忘不了丹尼。
另一個男孩是費南多。
06:19
The other boy was Fernando.
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06:22
Now, Fernando was
in the same detention center,
in the same detention center,
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費南多也在同一個拘留中心，
06:25
roughly the same age as Danny.
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和丹尼的年齡差不多。
06:27
Fernando was telling me about the 24 hours
he spent in isolation with his mother
he spent in isolation with his mother
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費南多跟我說到
他和他母親在拘留中心裡
他和他母親在拘留中心裡
被與其他人隔離了大約二十四小時。
06:32
in the detention center,
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06:33
placed there because his mother
had led a hunger strike
had led a hunger strike
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他們被隔離，是因為
他母親在拘留中心
他母親在拘留中心
帶領母親們發起一場絕食抗議，
06:36
among the mothers in the detention center,
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現在，守衛的壓力
讓她精神出問題了，
讓她精神出問題了，
06:38
and now she was cracking
under the pressure of the guards,
under the pressure of the guards,
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守衛不但做出威脅
且虐待她和費南多。
且虐待她和費南多。
06:41
who were threatening and being
very abusive towards her and Fernando.
very abusive towards her and Fernando.
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06:45
As Fernando and I are talking
in the small office,
in the small office,
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當費南多和我在一間
小型辦公室中交談時，
小型辦公室中交談時，
06:49
his mother burst in,
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他的母親闖進來，
06:51
and she says, "They hear you!
They're listening to you."
They're listening to you."
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她說：「他們聽得見你！
他們在偷聽你。」
他們在偷聽你。」
06:55
And she dropped to her hands and knees,
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她將雙手和雙膝都放在地上趴下，
06:59
and she began to look under the table,
groping under all the chairs.
groping under all the chairs.
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開始在桌子下找尋、
摸索每一張椅子底下。
摸索每一張椅子底下。
07:02
She looked at the electric sockets,
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她察看電插座、
07:05
at the corner of the room,
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房間的角落、
07:07
the floor, the corner of the ceiling,
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地板、屋頂的角落、
07:09
at the lamp, at the air vent, looking
for hidden microphones and cameras.
for hidden microphones and cameras.
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檯燈、通風孔，尋找
隱藏的麥克風和攝影機。
隱藏的麥克風和攝影機。
07:15
I watched Fernando
as he watched his mother spiral
as he watched his mother spiral
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費南多看著他母親忙上忙下
陷入這種恐慌的狀態中，
陷入這種恐慌的狀態中，
07:19
into this paranoid state.
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我則看著費南多。
07:22
I looked in his eyes
and I saw utter terror.
and I saw utter terror.
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我看著他的眼睛，
我看到完全的恐懼。
我看到完全的恐懼。
07:25
After all, who would take care
of him if she couldn't?
of him if she couldn't?
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畢竟，如果她無法照顧他，還有誰能？
07:29
It was just the two of them.
They only had each other.
They only had each other.
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他們就只有彼此相依為命。
07:32
I could tell you story after story,
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我有說不完的故事
可以跟大家分享，
可以跟大家分享，
07:37
but I haven't forgotten Fernando.
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但我仍然忘不了費南多。
07:41
And I know something about
what that kind of trauma,
what that kind of trauma,
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我了解那種創傷、壓力，
和逆境會對孩子有什麼影響。
07:45
stress and adversity does to children.
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07:48
So I'm going to get clinical
with you for a moment,
with you for a moment,
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所以我要和各位談一下臨床面，
07:51
and I'm going to be
the professor that I am.
the professor that I am.
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我要回到我的教授角色。
07:54
Under prolonged and intense stress,
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在很漫長和強烈的壓力、
07:59
trauma, hardship, adversity,
harsh conditions,
harsh conditions,
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創傷、困苦、逆境、嚴酷條件下，
08:04
the developing brain is harmed,
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發展中的大腦會受到傷害。
08:07
plain and simple.
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就這麼簡單。
08:09
Its wiring and its architecture
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大腦的連結和結構會被損傷。
08:11
are damaged.
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08:13
The child's natural stress
response system is affected.
response system is affected.
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孩子的自然壓力
因應系統會受到影響。
因應系統會受到影響。
它的保護因子會被削弱。
08:17
It's weakened of its protective factors.
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08:20
Regions of the brain
that are associated with cognition,
that are associated with cognition,
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大腦中和認知有關係的區域、
08:25
intellectual abilities,
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智力相關能力、
08:27
judgment, trust, self-regulation,
social interaction,
social interaction,
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判斷、信任、自我規範、社交互動
08:31
are weakened, sometimes permanently.
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都會變弱，有時是永久性的。
08:34
That impairs children's future.
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那會傷害到孩子的未來。
08:37
We also know that under stress,
the child's immune system is suppressed,
the child's immune system is suppressed,
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我們也知道，在壓力之下，
孩子的免疫系統會被壓制，
孩子的免疫系統會被壓制，
08:41
making them susceptible to infections.
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讓他們很容易被感染。
08:45
Chronic illnesses, like diabetes,
asthma, cardiovascular disease,
asthma, cardiovascular disease,
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慢性病，
比如糖尿病、氣喘、心血管疾病，
08:51
will follow those children into adulthood
and likely shorten their lives.
and likely shorten their lives.
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會跟著孩子進入成年期，
很可能會縮短他們的壽命。
08:57
Mental health problems are linked
to the breakdown of the body.
to the breakdown of the body.
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心理健康問題
讓身體的健康受到影響。
讓身體的健康受到影響。
09:01
I have seen children in detention
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我曾經見過被拘留的孩子
09:04
who have recurrent
and disturbing nightmares,
and disturbing nightmares,
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一再做讓他心神不寧的惡夢、
半夜驚恐、
09:07
night terrors,
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09:10
depression and anxiety,
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憂鬱和焦慮、
09:12
dissociative reactions,
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解離性反應、
09:15
hopelessness, suicidal thinking
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失去希望、自殺念頭，
09:18
and post-traumatic stress disorders.
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以及創傷後症候群。
09:21
And they regress in their behavior,
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他們的行為會退化，
09:23
like the 11-year-old boy
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就像有個十一歲的男孩，
09:27
who began to wet his bed again
after years of continence.
after years of continence.
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本來已經數年不會尿床，
又再度開始尿床。
又再度開始尿床。
09:31
And the eight-year-old girl
who was buckling under the pressure
who was buckling under the pressure
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還有個八歲女孩在壓力之下崩潰，
堅持要她的母親哺乳。
09:34
and was insisting
that her mother breastfeed her.
that her mother breastfeed her.
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09:36
That is what detention does to children.
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這就是拘留對孩子的影響。
09:41
Now, you may ask:
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你可能會問：
09:46
What do we do?
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我們能怎麼做？
09:47
What should our government do?
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我們的政府應該怎麼做？
09:50
Well, I'm just a mental
health professional,
health professional,
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我只是心理健康方面的專業人士，
09:53
so all I really know is about
children's health and development.
children's health and development.
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我懂的只是孩子的健康和發展。
09:56
But I have some ideas.
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但我有些想法。
09:58
First, we need to reframe our practices.
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首先，我們得要
重新建構我們的做法。
重新建構我們的做法。
10:02
We need to replace fear and hostility
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我們得用安全和憐憫
來取代恐懼和敵意。
10:06
with safety and compassion.
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10:10
We need to tear down the prison walls,
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我們得要拆除監獄的圍牆、
10:12
the barbed wire, take away the cages.
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有刺鐵絲網，不要再有牢籠。
10:15
Instead of prison, or prisons,
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我們應該建造有條理地
處理庇護的中心，而不是監獄，
處理庇護的中心，而不是監獄，
10:20
we should create orderly
asylum processing centers,
asylum processing centers,
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10:25
campus-like communities
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建造像校園一樣的社區，
10:27
where children and families
can live together.
can live together.
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讓孩子和家人能一起在那裡生活。
10:30
We could take old motels,
old army barracks,
old army barracks,
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我們可以採用老舊的
汽車旅館和軍方營房，
汽車旅館和軍方營房，
10:34
refit them so that children and parents
can live as family units
can live as family units
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整修之後，讓孩子和父母
能以家庭為單位住在那裡，
能以家庭為單位住在那裡，
10:37
in some safety and normality,
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能擁有安全和正常生活，
孩子可以四處奔跑。
孩子可以四處奔跑。
10:39
where kids can run around.
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10:42
In these processing centers,
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在這些處理中心裡，
10:44
pediatricians, family doctors,
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會有小兒科醫生、家庭醫生、
10:47
dentists and nurses,
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牙醫、護士
10:49
would be screening, examining,
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來篩選、檢測、治療孩子，
增強他們的免疫力，
增強他們的免疫力，
10:51
treating and immunizing children,
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10:53
creating records that will follow them
to their next medical provider.
to their next medical provider.
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建立記錄，讓下一個醫療服務
提供者也能取得他們的記錄。
提供者也能取得他們的記錄。
10:57
Social workers would be conducting
mental health evaluations
mental health evaluations
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社工會進行心理健康評估，
11:03
and providing treatment
for those who need it.
for those who need it.
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提供治療給需要的人。
11:05
Those social workers
would be connecting families
would be connecting families
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那些社工會協助家庭
與他們需要的服務做連結，
與他們需要的服務做連結，
11:08
to services that they're going
to need, wherever they're headed.
to need, wherever they're headed.
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不論他們將來會到何處。
11:11
And teachers would be teaching
and testing children
and testing children
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老師會教導、測驗孩子，
11:16
and documenting their learning
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記錄他們的學習狀況，
這樣，下一所學校的老師
就可以接續這些孩子的教育。
就可以接續這些孩子的教育。
11:19
so that the teachers at the next school
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11:21
can continue those children's education.
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11:23
There's a lot more that we could do
in these processing centers.
in these processing centers.
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在這些處理中心裡還有
很多我們可以做的事。
很多我們可以做的事。
11:29
A lot more.
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非常多。
11:31
And you probably are thinking,
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你可能在想，
11:33
this is pie-in-the-sky stuff.
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這是不可及的夢想。
11:37
Can't blame you.
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不能怪你。
11:39
Well, let me tell you that refugee camps
all over the world are holding families
all over the world are holding families
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讓我告訴各位，
世界各地難民營所收容的，
就是像我們拘留中心裡的那些家庭，
11:44
like those in our detention centers,
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11:46
and some of those refugee camps
are getting it right
are getting it right
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而有些難民營做得很好，
11:51
far better than we are.
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比我們好非常多。
11:53
The United Nations has issued reports
describing refugee camps
describing refugee camps
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聯合國發佈的報告中
描述這些難民營
描述這些難民營
會保護孩子的健康和發展。
11:58
that protect children's
health and development.
health and development.
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12:01
Children and parents live in family units
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孩子和父母以家庭
為單位住在一起，
為單位住在一起，
12:04
and clusters of families
are housed together.
are housed together.
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而數個家庭被安排群聚在一起。
12:08
Parents are given work permits
so they can earn some money,
so they can earn some money,
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父母能取得工作許可，
所以他們能夠賺錢，
所以他們能夠賺錢，
12:11
they're given food vouchers so they can
go to the local stores and shop.
go to the local stores and shop.
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他們能取得食物卷，
到當地的商店去購物。
到當地的商店去購物。
12:16
Mothers are brought together
to cook healthy meals for the children,
to cook healthy meals for the children,
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母親被聚集在一起，
為孩子烹飪健康餐點，
為孩子烹飪健康餐點，
12:20
and children go to school
every day and are taught.
every day and are taught.
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孩子每天都會上學、被教導。
12:24
Afterwards, after school,
they go home and they ride bikes,
they go home and they ride bikes,
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放學之後，他們會回家騎腳踏車、
12:27
hang out with friends, do homework
and explore the world --
and explore the world --
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和朋友玩、做作業、探索世界——
12:31
all the essentials for child development.
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這些對於孩子的發展都很重要。
12:36
We can get it right.
We have the resources to get it right.
We have the resources to get it right.
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我們能把事情做對。
我們有資源可以辦到。
我們有資源可以辦到。
12:40
What we need is the will
and the insistence of Americans
and the insistence of Americans
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我們需要的只是美國人
對於我們應該要人道
對待孩子的意願和堅持。
對待孩子的意願和堅持。
12:48
that we treat children humanely.
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12:52
You know, I can't forget
Danny or Fernando.
Danny or Fernando.
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我忘不了丹尼或費南多。
12:58
I wonder where they are today,
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我不知道他們現在在哪裡，
13:00
and I pray that they
are healthy and happy.
are healthy and happy.
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我祈禱他們能健康又快樂。
我見過許多孩子，
他們只是其中兩個，
他們只是其中兩個，
13:03
They are only two
of the many children I met
of the many children I met
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13:05
and of the thousands we know about
who have been in detention.
who have been in detention.
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我們知道有數千個孩子被拘留，
他們只是其中兩個。
他們只是其中兩個。
13:10
I may be saddened
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也許這些孩子的際遇
讓我感到難過，
讓我感到難過，
13:13
by what's happened to the children,
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13:15
but I'm inspired by them.
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但他們鼓舞了我。
13:18
I may cry, as I did,
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我可能會哭泣，我確實哭過，
13:22
but I admire those children's strength.
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但我欽佩那些孩子的力量。
13:25
They keep alive my hope
and my optimism in the work I do.
and my optimism in the work I do.
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3530
他們讓我在工作時能繼續
保有希望和樂觀。
保有希望和樂觀。
13:30
So while we may differ
on our approach to immigration,
on our approach to immigration,
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也許我們大家對於
移民的處理方式有歧見，
移民的處理方式有歧見，
13:35
we should be treating children
with dignity and respect.
with dignity and respect.
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但我們應該要用有尊嚴
和尊重的方式來對待孩子。
和尊重的方式來對待孩子。
13:39
We should do right by them.
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我們應該要對孩子們好。
13:41
If we do,
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如果我們做了，
13:44
we can prepare those children
who remain in the United States,
who remain in the United States,
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我們能協助那些待在美國的孩子，
13:47
prepare them to become productive,
engaged members of our society.
engaged members of our society.
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準備好成為我們社會中
有生產力、能投入的一份子。
有生產力、能投入的一份子。
13:53
And those who will return to their
countries whether voluntarily or not
countries whether voluntarily or not
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至於會被遣返回國的孩子，
不論是否出於自願，
不論是否出於自願，
13:57
will be prepared to become the teachers,
the merchants, the leaders
the merchants, the leaders
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我們也能能協助他們準備好，
在他們的國家中成為
老師、商人、領導人。
老師、商人、領導人。
14:01
in their country.
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14:03
And I hope together
all of those children and parents
all of those children and parents
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我希望，所有這些孩子和父母
14:06
could give testimony to the world
about the goodness of our country
about the goodness of our country
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能夠向世界證明
我們的國家是良善的，
我們的國家是良善的，
14:10
and our values.
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我們的價值觀。
14:12
But we have to get it right.
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但我們得把這件事做對。
14:15
So we can agree
to disagree on immigration,
to disagree on immigration,
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所以，對於移民，
我們可以有共識或歧見，
我們可以有共識或歧見，
14:20
but I hope we can agree on one thing:
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但我希望我們至少有一項共識：
14:22
that none of us wants to look back
at this moment in our history,
at this moment in our history,
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沒有人會想要在未來，
回頭看歷史上的這一刻，
回頭看歷史上的這一刻，
14:27
when we knew we were inflicting
lifelong trauma on children,
lifelong trauma on children,
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明明知道我們在讓
孩子受到一生的創傷，
孩子受到一生的創傷，
14:32
and that we sat back and did nothing.
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卻選擇袖手旁觀。
14:37
That would be the greatest tragedy of all.
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那會是最大的悲劇。
14:42
Thank you.
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謝謝。
14:44
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Luis H. Zayas - Social worker, psychologist, researcherLuis H. Zayas remains a proud active mental health practitioner through his evaluations of immigrant children and families facing deportation, and of refugee and asylum-seeking mothers and children in detention centers.
Why you should listen
Luis H. Zayas lends his expertise to legal advocates protecting the rights of asylees, refugees and immigrants in courts. A native of Coamo, Puerto Rico, Zayas believes deeply that social justice warriors cannot serve on all the battlefronts where human rights are trampled, and inhumane treatment occurs. Instead, we must use our natural talents, passions, skills and knowledge to fight in those areas that call out to us.
Luis H. Zayas | Speaker | TED.com