TEDGlobal 2012
Robert Neuwirth: The power of the informal economy
羅伯特‧紐沃夫: 地下經濟的力量
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羅伯特‧紐沃夫花了4年時間在街頭髒亂的攤販及市場研究，他和推推車叫賣的小販、水貨商交談，深入了解被稱為「D 體系」與眾不同的地下經濟世界；我們所忽視的，是地下經濟近18億工作者，和其龐大的力量和規模。
Robert Neuwirth - Author
Robert Neuwirth’s writings on the street-level reality of the developing world have opened a new dialogue on development and economics. Full bio
Robert Neuwirth’s writings on the street-level reality of the developing world have opened a new dialogue on development and economics. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
In System D, this
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在「D體系」的世界裡
00:18
is a store,
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這是間商店
00:20
and what I mean by that is that this is a photograph
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而我要說的是，這張照片
00:23
I took in Makoko, shantytown in Lagos, Nigeria.
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是我在奈及利亞，拉哥斯的馬可可貧民窟(Makoko)拍的
00:28
It's built over the lagoon, and there are no streets
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商店位於潟湖的上方，那裡沒有街道
00:30
where there can be stores to shop,
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也就沒有商店可逛
00:32
and so the store comes to you.
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因此流動攤販就這麼出現了
00:34
And in the same community,
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在同一個社區中
00:36
this is business synergy.
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有所謂的企業合作
00:38
This is the boat that that lady was paddling around in,
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這艘小船是剛剛那位小販的
00:42
and this artisan makes the boat and the paddles
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這位是製作船和槳的工匠
00:44
and sells directly
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現做現賣
00:46
to the people who need the boat and the paddles.
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給需要的人
00:48
And this is a global business.
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這是個跨國生意
00:50
Ogandiro smokes fish in Makoko in Lagos,
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小販歐甘狄羅(Ogandiro)在拉哥斯的馬可可賣燻魚
00:54
and I asked her, "Where does the fish come from?"
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我問她「這些魚是哪來的？」
00:57
And I thought she'd say, "Oh, you know,
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我猜她應該會說，「噢，這個啊...」
01:00
up the lagoon somewhere, or maybe across Africa,"
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「就在這潟湖裡，要不就非洲」
01:03
but you'll be happy to know she said
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不過你會很高興聽到她說
01:04
it came from here, it comes from the North Sea.
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魚是從我們這裡，北海來的
01:06
It's caught here, frozen, shipped down to Lagos,
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在北海捕撈，冷凍，再運到拉哥斯
01:09
smoked, and sold for a tiny increment of profit
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煙燻料理後再以微薄利潤
01:12
on the streets of Lagos.
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賣到拉哥斯的街頭
01:13
And this is a business incubator.
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這是那兒的企業創新育成中心
01:15
This is Olusosun dump, the largest garbage dump in Lagos,
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奧盧梭森(Olusosun)，拉哥斯最大的垃圾場
01:19
and 2,000 people work here, and I found this out
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有2000多人在這討生活
01:22
from this fellow, Andrew Saboru.
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這是安德魯‧薩布魯(Andrew Saboru)跟我說的
01:24
Andrew spent 16 years scavenging materials on the dump,
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安德魯在這拾荒了16年
01:28
earned enough money to turn himself into a contract scaler,
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他賺了錢，成了約聘秤重員
01:32
which meant he carried a scale and went around and
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也就是說，他得帶著磅秤到處跑
01:34
weighed all the materials that people had scavenged
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測量大家撿來的東西有多重
01:37
from the dump. Now he's a scrap dealer.
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現在的他則是廢棄回收物商
01:40
That's his little depot behind him,
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在他身後的是他的小倉庫
01:42
and he earns twice the Nigerian minimum wage.
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他的薪水為奈及利亞最低薪資的2倍
01:46
This is a shopping mall.
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這是他們的購物中心
01:49
This is Oshodi Market in Lagos.
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位於拉哥斯的奧修地市場(Oshodi Market)
01:51
Jorge Luis Borges had a story called "The Aleph,"
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博爾赫斯(Jorge Luis Borges)有部作品叫「阿萊斯」(The Aleph)
01:53
and the Aleph is a point in the world
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「阿萊斯」是世界的上一個小小的點
01:55
where absolutely everything exists,
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卻無奇不有
01:57
and for me, this image is a point in the world
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對我而言，這畫面就好比是「阿萊斯」
02:00
where absolutely everything exists.
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什麼都有，是世界的縮影
02:02
So, what am I talking about when I talk about System D?
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而當談到「D體系」時，該講些什麼呢?
02:05
It's traditionally called the informal economy,
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他正式的說法是非法經濟
02:07
the underground economy, the black market.
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地下經濟或黑市
02:11
I don't conceive of it that way.
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我無法想像這種模式
02:13
I think it's really important to understand that something like
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但我認為這非常重要，必須得去理解這個情況
02:16
this is totally open. It's right there for you to find.
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畢竟黑市就大剌剌的擺在眼前，等著你去探索
02:20
All of this is happening openly, and aboveboard.
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沒有任何遮掩，完全赤裸地公開
02:23
There's nothing underground about it.
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根本沒有地下不地下這回事
02:26
It's our prejudgment that it's underground.
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那只是我們的刻板印象
02:29
I've pirated the term System D from the former French colonies.
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我從前法國殖民地那借用了「D體系」這個詞
02:34
There's a word in French that is débrouillardise,
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法文有個單字是débrouillardise
02:37
that means to be self-reliant,
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即自力更生的意思
02:39
and the former French colonies have turned that into
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後來前法國殖民地把這個字變成「D體系」
02:42
System D for the economy of self-reliance,
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用來表示他們自助式的經濟方式
02:45
or the DIY economy.
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或稱DIY經濟
02:48
But governments hate the DIY economy,
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但是政府痛恨DIY經濟
02:51
and that's why -- I took this picture in 2007,
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這就是為什麼我在2007年拍了這張照片
02:54
and this is the same market in 2009 --
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同一個市場在2009年卻變了樣
02:59
and I think, when the organizers of this conference
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我相信，這場演講的策畫人
03:01
were talking about radical openness,
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在討論到「極端開放」之時
03:03
they didn't mean that the streets should be open
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並不會把街道清空
03:05
and the people should be gone.
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或驅散民眾
03:07
I think what we have is a pickle problem.
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我想我們面對的是醃菜問題
03:11
I had a friend who worked at a pickle factory,
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我有個朋友曾在醃菜工廠上班
03:14
and the cucumbers would come flying down
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有些小黃瓜會被丟出輸送帶
03:16
this conveyer belt, and his job was to pick off the ones
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他的工作就是去撿那些小黃瓜
03:20
that didn't look so good and throw them in the bin
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把賣相不好的小黃瓜丟進標有「可口」字樣的籃子裡
03:22
labeled "relish" where they'd be crushed and mixed
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再被送去攪碎、用醋調和
03:24
with vinegar and used for other kinds of profit.
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當作其他商品販售
03:27
This is the pickle economy.
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這就是醃菜的獲利方式
03:30
We're all focusing on — this is a statistic from
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但我們都只關注數據
03:32
earlier this month in the Financial Times —
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月初在金融時報中的數據
03:35
we're all focusing on the luxury economy.
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只關注大型的經濟活動
03:38
It's worth 1.5 trillion dollars every year, and that's
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這每年可值1.5兆美元
03:41
a vast amount of money, right?
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相當龐大的數字，是吧?
03:43
That's three times the Gross Domestic Product of Switzerland.
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相當於瑞士GDP的3倍
03:46
So it's vast. But it should come with an asterisk,
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的確是一塊大餅，但我們應該給它標記一下
03:51
and the asterisk is that it excludes two thirds of the workers
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這個大餅把3分之2的工作者排除在外
03:55
of the world.
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全世界的工作者
03:56
1.8 billion people around the world work
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全球18億人是在
03:59
in the economy that is unregulated and informal.
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沒有規範、非法的情況下工作
04:05
That's a huge number, and what does that mean?
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這個驚人的數字又意味著什麼?
04:08
Well, it means if it were united in a single political system,
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這代表著，如果把這些人集結為單一政治體系
04:13
one country, call it
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變成一個國家
04:17
"The United Street Sellers Republic," the U.S.S.R.,
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稱為「攤販聯盟共和國」，簡稱U.S.S.R.
04:20
or "Bazaaristan,"
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或「市集斯坦」
04:22
it would be worth 10 trillion dollars every year,
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那每年將值10兆美元
04:26
and that would make it the second largest economy
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甚至會是全球第二大經濟體
04:28
in the world, after the United States.
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僅次於美國
04:31
And given that projections are that the bulk
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而從未來15年，開發中國家新興經濟體
04:34
of economic growth over the next 15 years will come
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龐大的經濟成長規模
04:37
from emerging economies in the developing world,
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可以預測得到
04:41
it could easily overtake the United States
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美國被取代是早晚的是
04:43
and become the largest economy in the world.
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地下經濟將成為最大經濟體
04:46
So the implications of that are vast, because it means
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言外之意是，這是不容小覷的
04:50
that this is where employment is — 1.8 billion people —
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因為這就是勞動力的來源，18億人口
04:53
and this is where we can create a more egalitarian world,
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我們甚至能創造更平等的世界
04:58
because people are actually able to earn money and live
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因為大家是真的為了討生活而賺錢
05:02
and thrive, as Andrew Saboru did.
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接著繁榮起來，就像安德魯的例子一樣。
05:05
Big businesses have recognized this,
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商人很清楚這點
05:07
and what's fascinating about this slide,
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在這張幻燈片裡令人驚訝的
05:09
it's not that the guys can carry boxes on their heads
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並非是有人可以用頭頂著箱子
05:11
and run around without dropping them off.
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跑東跑西還可穩如泰山
05:14
it's that the Gala sausage roll is a product that's made
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令人眼睛為之一亮的是那裡頭的Gala牌的臘腸捲
05:17
by a global company called UAC foods
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是由跨國食品公司UAC生產的
05:20
that's active throughout Africa and the Middle East,
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在非洲和中東都有這家公司的蹤影
05:22
but the Gala sausage roll is not sold in stores.
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不過在店裡可是買不到Gala臘腸捲的
05:26
UAC foods has recognized that it won't sell if it's in stores.
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UAC公司發現臘腸捲擺在裡是賣不掉的
05:29
It's only sold by a phalanx of street hawkers
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大家只到街頭攤販那買
05:33
who run around the streets of Lagos at bus stations
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小販會把臘腸當作點心，在拉哥斯靠公車站的街道上
05:36
and in traffic jams and sell it as a snack,
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或在塞車的時候奔走叫賣
05:41
and it's been sold that way for 40 years.
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這樣的販賣方式已經持續40年了
05:44
It's a business plan for a corporation.
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這對公司來說是商業策略
05:46
And it's not just in Africa.
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這不單是在非洲
05:48
Here's Mr. Clean looking amorously at all the other
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這是寶僑清潔品牌「清潔先生」
05:51
Procter & Gamble products,
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和其他寶僑的產品
05:53
and Procter & Gamble, you know,
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一說到寶僑
05:56
the statistic always cited is that Wal-Mart
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數據總是會說沃爾瑪(Wal-Mart)
05:58
is their largest customer, and it's true, as one store,
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是寶僑的頭號大客戶，以一家店的規模來看這沒有錯
06:03
Wal-Mart buys 15 percent, thus 15 percent
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有15%由沃爾瑪買單，也就是說
06:06
of Procter & Gamble's business is with Wal-Mart,
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寶僑在生意上有15%是和沃爾瑪合作的
06:10
but their largest market segment is something that they call
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但是他們最大市場區是他們所謂的「高頻率商店」
06:13
"high frequency stores," which is all these tiny kiosks
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指的就是一些小販售亭
06:16
and the lady in the canoe and all these other businesses
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一個亭子配一個店員，其他類似的經營手法
06:19
that exist in System D, the informal economy,
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就和地下經濟「D體系」的情況一樣
06:25
and Procter & Gamble makes 20 percent of its money
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而寶僑在這樣的市場區裡
06:28
from that market segment,
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獲利了20%
06:30
and it's the only market segment that's growing.
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那也是唯一正成長的市場區
06:34
So Procter & Gamble says, "We don't care whether a store
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寶僑還說:「我們不考慮商店是否有合法登記
06:37
is incorporated or registered or anything like that.
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之類的問題
06:40
We want our products in that store."
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我們只想要貨品在店裡上架」
06:43
And then there's mobile phones.
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在來是手機
06:46
This is an ad for MTN,
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這是MTN電信的廣告
06:47
which is a South African multinational
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一家南非的跨國電信公司
06:50
active in about 25 countries,
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觸角遍及約25國
06:53
and when they came into Nigeria —
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當他們進入奈及利亞市場
06:54
Nigeria is the big dog in Africa.
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奈及利亞在非洲是個金礦
06:56
One in seven Africans is a Nigerian,
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7個非洲人中有1個就是奈及利亞人
06:59
and so everyone wants in to the mobile phone market
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大家都想打進奈及利亞的手機市場
07:01
in Nigeria. And when MTN came in, they wanted
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MTN電信進駐後，想用在美國的一樣方案
07:03
to sell the mobile service like I get in the United States
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兜售電信服務
07:06
or like people get here in the U.K. or in Europe --
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或像大家在英國或歐洲那樣的方案
07:10
expensive monthly plans, you get a phone,
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付昂貴的月費後有了手機
07:14
you pay overages,
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接著完全超支
07:16
you're killed with fees --
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整個人被淹沒在帳單堆中
07:18
and their plan crashed and burned.
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電信公司推出的方案觸礁失敗
07:20
And they went back to the drawing board, and they retooled,
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因此他們重新規劃，改良方案
07:22
and they came up with another plan:
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最後推出了新的方案
07:23
We don't sell you the phone,
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不賣手機
07:26
we don't sell you the monthly plan.
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也沒有月費方案
07:27
We only sell you airtime.
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只收通話費
07:31
And where's the airtime sold?
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那通話時間要上哪買呢?
07:33
It's sold at umbrella stands all over the streets,
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就在街頭巷尾隨處可見的陽傘下
07:37
where people are unregistered, unlicensed,
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沒有人是合法登記或持照的
07:40
but MTN makes most of its profits,
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但卻幫MTN電信賺了大把鈔票
07:43
perhaps 90 percent of its profits,
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公司大概有90%的利潤
07:46
from selling through System D, the informal economy.
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是來自「D體系」，所謂的地下經濟
07:50
And where do the phones come from?
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那麼手機又是哪來的呢?
07:52
Well, they come from here. This is in Guangzhou, China,
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這兒，這是中國的廣州
07:55
and if you go upstairs in this rather sleepy looking
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如果你走到這間看似死氣沉沉電子商場的樓上
07:59
electronics mall, you find the Guangzhou Dashatou
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你會看到「廣州大沙頭」
08:03
second-hand trade center,
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二手交易中心
08:06
and if you go in there, you follow the guys with the muscles
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如果你走進來逛逛，跟著身材壯碩
08:09
who are carrying the boxes, and where are they going?
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搬著箱子的人走，會通到哪呢?
08:12
They're going to Eddy in Lagos.
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拉哥斯的艾迪那兒
08:15
Now, most of the phones there are not second-hand at all.
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大部分的手機並非二手貨
08:17
The name is a misnomer.
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大家會錯意了
08:19
Most of them are pirated. They have the name brand
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大多是山寨機，上頭有牌子
08:22
on them, but they're not manufactured by the name brand.
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但並非出自原廠
08:25
Now, are there downsides to that?
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那麼，這樣做會不會有問題呢?
08:27
Well, I guess. You know, China has no —
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我想，在中國...
08:31
(Laughter) — no intellectual property, right?
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是沒有智慧財產權的，對吧?
08:34
Versace without the vowels.
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少了幾個字母的凡爾賽斯(Versace)
08:36
Zhuomani instead of Armani.
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亞曼尼(Armani)變成卓瑪妮
08:38
S. Guuuci, and -- (Laughter) (Applause)
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這是S.古烏...烏馳...
08:43
All around the world this is how products
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全世界都是如此
08:46
are being distributed, so, for instance,
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這就是產品批發的過程，舉例來說
08:49
in one street market on Rua 25 de Março
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在巴西聖保羅
08:52
in São Paulo, Brazil,
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的25街( Rua 25 de Março)上
08:54
you can buy fake designer glasses.
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你可以買到盜版的名牌太陽眼鏡
08:57
You can buy cloned cologne.
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盜版古龍水
08:59
You can buy pirated DVDs, of course.
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當然也有盜版光碟
09:02
You can buy New York Yankees caps
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紐約洋基隊棒球帽
09:05
in all sorts of unauthorized patterns.
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名牌仿冒品隨處可見
09:08
You can buy cuecas baratas, designer underwear
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還有廉價的名牌內褲
09:11
that isn't really manufactured by a designer,
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也非出自原廠之手
09:13
and even pirated evangelical mixtapes. (Laughter)
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甚至還有基督教的聖樂合集
09:18
Now, businesses tend to complain about this,
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現在，商人們開始抱怨了
09:20
and their, they, I don't want to take away from their
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他們...我不想質疑
09:24
entire validity of complaining about it,
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他們抱怨的正確性
09:26
but I did ask a major sneaker manufacturer earlier this year
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但我在年初的時候，的確有問一家運動鞋大廠
09:30
what they thought about piracy,
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問問他們對盜版的看法
09:33
and they told me, "Well, you can't quote me on this,
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他們說:「這個嘛，你可不能說是我說的...
09:35
because if you quote me on this, I have to kill you,"
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要不然我得殺你滅口」
09:37
but they use piracy as market research.
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他們把盜版視為市場調查的一部分
09:42
The sneaker manufacturer told me that if
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運動鞋製造商告訴我
09:46
they find that Pumas are being pirated, or Adidas
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如果他們發現Puma或Adidas被人仿冒
09:49
are being pirated and their sneakers aren't being pirated,
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自己出產的鞋子卻沒被盜版商抄襲
09:53
they know they've done something wrong. (Laughter)
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他們就會知道大事不妙了 (笑聲)
09:56
So it's very important to them to track piracy
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所以盜版方面的消息他們來說是很重要的
09:59
exactly because of this, and the people who are buying,
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而掏腰包買盜版商品人
10:01
the pirates, are not their customers anyway,
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也不屬於他們的客群
10:03
because their customers want the real deal.
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因為他們的買家想要的是正版商品
10:06
Now, there's another problem.
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現在，另一個問題出現了
10:07
This is a real street sign in Lagos, Nigeria.
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這是奈及利亞的拉哥斯，路標上就寫著「落實納稅」
10:11
All of System D really doesn't pay taxes, right?
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顯然「D體系」的人沒在繳稅的，是吧?
10:14
And when I think about that, first of all I think that
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當我思考這問題時，我第一個想到的是
10:16
government is a social contract between the people and
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政府扮演的是他和人民間「社會契約」的角色
10:19
the government, and if the government isn't transparent,
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如果政府辦事不夠透明
10:22
then the people aren't going to be transparent either,
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人民當然就有樣學樣
10:24
but also that we're blaming the little guy
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但是我們卻用放大鏡再看那些
10:27
who doesn't pay his taxes, and we're not recognizing
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不繳稅的少數人上，我們沒意識到的是
10:29
that everyone's fudging things all over the world,
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騙術戲碼在世界各地都上演著
10:32
including some extremely respected businesses,
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甚至包括一些受人敬重的大企業
10:36
and I'll give you one example.
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我這就有一個例子
10:37
There was one company that paid 4,000 bribes
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有個公司行賄量達到了4000筆
10:41
in the first decade of this millennium, and
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就發生在2000~2010年間
10:43
a million dollars in bribes every business day, right?
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每天花一百萬美元行賄，對吧?
10:48
All over the world. And that company
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全球各地都一樣，這家大公司
10:51
was the big German electronics giant Siemens.
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就是德國電子大廠西門子
10:54
So this goes on in the formal economy
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這就在我們所謂的合法經濟上真實上演
10:57
as well as the informal economy,
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當然在地下經濟的世界也不例外
11:00
so it's wrong of us to blame — and I'm not singling out
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因此，怪罪地下經濟是不對的；我並非針對西門子
11:02
Siemens, I'm saying everyone does it. Okay?
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我的意思的是大家都這麼做
11:06
I just want to end by saying that if Adam Smith
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我想以亞當‧斯密(Adam Smith)作的例子為結語
11:09
had framed out a theory of the flea market
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如果他的理論為跳蚤市場畫出了藍圖
11:12
instead of the free market, what would be some
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而非構想中的自由市場
11:15
of the principles?
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這些原則代表了什麼?
11:17
First, it would be to understand that it could be
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首先得要了解到
11:21
considered a cooperative, and this is a thought
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這是巴西法學家
11:23
from the Brazilian legal scholar Roberto Mangabeira Unger.
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羅貝多‧溫格(Roberto Mangabeira Unger)的構想
11:28
Cooperative development is a way forward.
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合作開發是條康莊大道
11:30
Secondly, from the [Austrian] anarchist philosopher Paul Feyerabend,
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第二，奧地利無政府主義哲學家保羅‧費耶阿本德(Paul Feyerabend) 認為
11:35
facts are relative, and what is a massive right
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事實是相對應的，而奈及利亞商人
11:39
of self-reliance to a Nigerian businessperson
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他們自助性的經濟
11:42
is considered unauthorized and horrible to other people,
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對其他人而言是不好、非法的
11:46
and we have to recognize that there are differences
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我們必須承認，差異一直都存在於
11:48
in how people define things and what their facts are.
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人們定義事情的方式和事情本身的事實之間
11:50
And third is, and I'm taking this from
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第三，是我從垮掉派美國詩人
11:53
the great American beat poet Allen Ginsberg,
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艾倫‧金斯堡(Allen Ginsberg)那引用的
11:57
that alternate economies barter and
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另類經濟世界中的以物易物
12:00
different kinds of currency, alternate currencies
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不同類型的貨幣、替代貨幣
12:03
are also very important, and he talked about
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都是很重要的，他還談到
12:05
buying what he needed just with his good looks.
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他用他充滿魅力的外表就能買到想要的東西
12:08
And so I just want to leave you there, and say that
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我就不再多話，讓你們想想
12:12
this economy is a tremendous force for global development
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地下經濟對全球的發展來說是顆強而有力的引擎
12:16
and we need to think about it that way.
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我們得改變對它的刻板印象
12:18
Thank you very much. (Applause)
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謝謝大家
12:21
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Robert Neuwirth - AuthorRobert Neuwirth’s writings on the street-level reality of the developing world have opened a new dialogue on development and economics.
Why you should listen
For too many people in the world, Robert Neuwirth suggests, the world's globalized economic system has turned out to be a capitalism of decay. Only by embracing true sharing strategies, he argues, can people develop an equitable vision of the future.
Neuwirth is the author of two previous books: Stealth of Nations (2011), on the global growth of the street markets and cross-border smuggling, and Shadow Cities (2005), on the power of squatter communities and shantytowns. His work has appeared in documentary films, on radio and television, and in many publications. In addition to writing, he has taught at Rikers Island, New York City’s jail, and at Columbia University’s Graduate School of Journalism.
Robert Neuwirth | Speaker | TED.com