TED2006
Peter Gabriel: Fight injustice with raw video
彼得．凱柏爾用影片對抗不公不義
Filmed:
Readability: 3.8
996,827 views
同時是歌手也是活動發起人的彼得．凱柏爾，告訴我們他支持「證人計畫」這個人權運動的個人私密動機，並為我們講述了一些人權故事。
Peter Gabriel - Musician, activist
Peter Gabriel writes incredible songs but, as the co-founder of WITNESS and TheElders.org, is also a powerful human rights advocate. Full bio
Peter Gabriel writes incredible songs but, as the co-founder of WITNESS and TheElders.org, is also a powerful human rights advocate. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:25
I love trees, and I'm very lucky,
0
0
3000
我喜歡樹，而我很幸運，
00:28
because we live near a wonderful arboretum,
1
3000
3000
因為我們住在一個很棒的植物園附近，
00:31
and Sundays, usually, I'd go there with my wife
2
6000
3000
通常在星期天的時候，我會和我太太到那裡走走，
00:34
and now, with my four-year-old,
3
9000
2000
現在則是和我四歲的小孩去那裡，
00:36
and we'd climb in the trees, we'd play hide and seek.
4
11000
3000
我們會爬上樹梢，或是在樹林裡玩躲迷藏。
00:39
The second school I was at had big trees too,
5
14000
4000
我讀的第二所學校也有很雄偉的樹，
00:43
had a fantastic tulip tree, I think it was the biggest in the country,
6
18000
4000
有一株很美的鵝掌楸，我想大概是全國最大的吧...
00:47
and it also had a lot of wonderful bushes and vegetation
7
22000
4000
還有很棒的灌木叢和一些花草樹木，
00:51
around it, around the playing fields.
8
26000
2000
就在遊戲區附近。
00:53
One day I was grabbed by some of my classmates,
9
28000
4000
有一天，我被幾個同學捉住，
00:57
and taken in the bushes -- I was stripped; I was attacked;
10
32000
4000
他們把我帶進灌木叢裡，扒掉我的衣服打我，
01:01
I was abused; and this came out of the blue.
11
36000
3000
我被毒打一頓，後來還造成了憂鬱症。
01:06
Now, the reason I say that, because, afterwards, I was thinking --
12
41000
4000
我現在說出來的原因是，我認為，經過了這些事--
01:10
well, I went back into the school -- I felt dirty; I felt betrayed;
13
45000
6000
嗯，後來我回到學校，我覺得自己很骯髒、被人背叛了，
01:16
I felt ashamed, but mainly -- mainly, I felt powerless.
14
51000
5000
我也覺得很羞恥，但是主要還是無力感。
01:23
And 30 years later I was sitting in an airplane,
15
58000
3000
三十年之後，我在搭乘一架飛機的時候，
01:26
next to a lady called Veronica, who came from Chile,
16
61000
3000
隔壁坐了一位來自智利的女士，她叫做薇若妮卡，
01:29
and we were on a human rights tour,
17
64000
3000
我們一同參與某個人權團體行程，
01:32
and she was starting to tell me what it was like to be tortured,
18
67000
5000
她告訴我被人虐待的感覺是什麼，
01:37
and, from my very privileged position,
19
72000
3000
而我剛好有那個獨特的經驗，
01:40
this was the only reference point that I had.
20
75000
3000
於是我便和她分享我那唯一的經驗。
01:44
And it was an amazing learning experience
21
79000
2000
那真是一次很棒的學習經驗，
01:46
because, for me, human rights have been something in which I had,
22
81000
3000
因為對我來說，人權只不過是我個人
01:49
you know, a part-time interest, but, mainly,
23
84000
3000
休閒時的興趣，但是對其他人來說，
01:52
it was something that happened to other people over there.
24
87000
3000
卻是真實的發生在自己身上的事。
01:55
But I got a phone call from Bono in 1985 and, as you know,
25
90000
7000
我在1985年時接到波諾(Bono)的電話，
02:02
he's a great singer, but he's a magnificent hustler, and --
26
97000
5000
大家都知道他是很棒的歌手，但我覺得他嘴上功夫也很好--
02:07
(Laughter) --
27
102000
2000
(笑聲)
02:09
a very hard guy to say no to, and he was saying,
28
104000
3000
你很難拒絕這個人，他總有他的說法。
02:12
you know, just after I'd done the Biko song,
29
107000
2000
就在我完成Biko(南非人權運動者)的紀念專輯後，
02:14
we're going to do a tour for Amnesty,
30
109000
2000
他們正要為國際特赦組織進行巡迴演出，
02:16
you have to be on it, and really that was the first time
31
111000
3000
他說：你真的得加入我們。那是我第一次
02:19
that I'd been out and started meeting people
32
114000
4000
站出來認識這麼多朋友，
02:23
who'd watched their family being shot in front of them,
33
118000
3000
他們有的人親眼看到自己的親人被槍殺，
02:26
who'd had a partner thrown out of an airplane into an ocean,
34
121000
3000
有的親人被人從飛機上丟下大海，
02:29
and suddenly this world of human rights arrived in my world,
35
124000
5000
突然之間，我的世界裡多了人權議題，
02:34
and I couldn't really walk away in quite the same way as before.
36
129000
5000
我再也無法像以前那樣不聞不問了。
02:39
So I got involved with this tour, which was for Amnesty,
37
134000
4000
所以我就加入了那次巡迴演出，那是為國際特赦組織所做的演出，
02:43
and then in '88 I took over Bono's job trying to learn how to hustle.
38
138000
5000
然後在1988年，我接替波諾的工作開始騙人，
02:48
I didn't do it as well, but we managed to get Youssou N'Dour, Sting,
39
143000
4000
我做得沒有那麼好，但我設法讓尤蘇．安多爾、史汀、
02:52
Tracy Chapman, and Bruce Springsteen to go 'round the world for Amnesty,
40
147000
5000
崔西．查普曼和布魯斯．史普林斯汀一起加入這場巡演，
02:57
and it was an amazing experience.
41
152000
2000
那真是一個很棒的經驗。
03:00
And, once again, I got an extraordinary education,
42
155000
4000
而且，我從中學到了很特別的東西，
03:04
and it was the first time, really,
43
159000
2000
那是我第一次
03:06
that I'd met a lot of these people in the different countries,
44
161000
4000
認識這麼多來自不同國家的人，
03:10
and these human rights stories became very physical,
45
165000
5000
他們的人權故事是那麼具體，
03:15
and, again, I couldn't really walk away quite so comfortably.
46
170000
6000
我一樣沒辦法假裝不聞不問。
03:21
But the thing that really amazed me, that I had no idea,
47
176000
3000
但真正令我驚訝而我也搞不懂的是，
03:24
was that you could suffer in this way
48
179000
3000
人們在受到這麼具大的創傷後，
03:27
and then have your whole experience, your story, denied,
49
182000
6000
加害者竟會全盤否認那些經歷、那些故事，
03:33
buried and forgotten.
50
188000
2000
只為掩蓋和遺忘這些罪行。
03:36
And it seemed that whenever there was a camera around,
51
191000
5000
但只要那附近有照相機、
03:41
or a video or film camera,
52
196000
3000
錄影機或攝影機，
03:44
it was a great deal harder to do -- for those in power to bury the story.
53
199000
6000
當權者要掩蓋他們的罪行就沒有那麼容易了。
03:51
And Reebok set up a foundation after these Human Rights Now tours
54
206000
4000
銳跑(Reebok)公司在我們的人權巡演之後，設立了一個基金會，
03:55
and there was a decision then --
55
210000
4000
他們決定要--
03:59
well, we made a proposal, for a couple of years,
56
214000
3000
嗯，我們在幾年前提出了一個建議，
04:02
about trying to set up a division
57
217000
2000
我們希望在基金會裡設立一個部門，
04:04
that was going to give cameras to human rights activists.
58
219000
3000
由這個部門發放攝影機給人權運動領袖。
04:09
It didn't really get anywhere,
59
224000
1000
這個建議在當時並沒有被採納，
04:10
and then the Rodney King incident happened, and people thought,
60
225000
3000
然而，在1992年洛杉磯暴動發生後，人們開始思考，
04:13
OK, if you have a camera in the right place at the right time,
61
228000
3000
若我們能在對的時間、對的地點放上一台攝影機，
04:16
or, perhaps, the wrong time, depending who you are,
62
231000
4000
或許就算是在錯誤的時間，要看你是什麼人，
04:20
then you can actually start doing something,
63
235000
5000
你或許就能發揮某些作用，
04:25
and campaigning, and being heard,
64
240000
4000
發起某項運動，為自己發聲，
04:29
and telling people about what's going on.
65
244000
2000
告訴世人發生了什麼事。
04:31
So, WITNESS was started in '92
66
246000
4000
證人計畫在1992年開始運作，
04:35
and it's since given cameras out in over 60 countries.
67
250000
6000
發放攝影機到超過60個國家，
04:41
And we campaign with activist groups
68
256000
6000
我們和其他團體一起發起運動，
04:47
and help them tell their story and, in fact,
69
262000
4000
幫助他們訴說他們的故事，
04:51
I will show you in a moment one of the most recent campaigns,
70
266000
4000
等一下我會告訴你們，最近的一個運動，
04:55
and I'm afraid it's a story from Uganda,
71
270000
3000
那是在烏干達發生的故事，
04:58
and, although we had a wonderful story from Uganda yesterday,
72
273000
4000
雖然我們昨天有聽到關於烏干達美好的故事，
05:02
this one isn't quite so good.
73
277000
2000
但這一個不是美好的故事。
05:04
In the north of Uganda,
74
279000
2000
在烏干達北部，
05:06
there are something like 1.5 million internally displaced people,
75
281000
3000
大約有一百五十萬流離失所的烏干達人民，
05:09
people who are not refugees in another country,
76
284000
3000
他們不是來自其他國家的難民，
05:12
but because of the civil war, which has been going on for about 20 years,
77
287000
4000
而是長達20年來烏干達內戰的難民，
05:16
they have nowhere to live.
78
291000
2000
他們沒有地方去。
05:18
And 20,000 kids have been taken away to become child soldiers,
79
293000
6000
有二萬個孩童被徵召成為兒童兵，
05:24
and the International Criminal Court is going after five of the leaders of the --
80
299000
8000
國際刑事法庭目前在追捕五個軍事領導人，
05:32
now, what's it called?
81
307000
2000
他們叫什麼名字呢？
05:34
I forget the name of the of the army --
82
309000
2000
我忘了軍隊的名稱，
05:36
it's Lord's Resistance Army, I believe --
83
311000
3000
大概是叫做聖主反抗軍吧...
05:39
but the government, also, doesn't have a clean sheet,
84
314000
2000
但是烏干達政府也好不到哪裡去，
05:41
so if we could run the first video.
85
316000
2000
讓我們先來看第一支影片。
05:43
(Music)
86
318000
2000
(音樂)
05:46
Woman: Life in the camp is never simple. Even today life is difficult.
87
321000
3000
女性：生活在難民營裡不容易，即使到今天也是一樣，
05:49
We stay because of the fear that what pushed us into the camp ...
88
324000
4000
我們擔心迫使我們逃到難民營的恐怖事件，
05:53
still exists back home.
89
328000
3000
到今天還在家鄉持續上演。
05:59
Text: "Between Two Fires: Torture and Displacement in Northern Uganda"
90
334000
7000
文字：「進退二難：受虐，或逃到烏干達北部」
06:10
Man: When we were at home, it was Kony's [rebel] soldiers disturbing us.
91
345000
7000
男性：我們在家鄉的時候，科尼的反叛軍一直在騷擾我們，
06:17
At first, we were safe in the camp.
92
352000
3000
一開始來到難民營時還滿安全的，
06:20
But later the government soldiers began mistreating us a lot.
93
355000
5000
但之後，政府軍就開始虐待我們。
06:25
(Chanting)
94
360000
2000
(軍歌聲)
06:28
Jennifer: A soldier walked onto the road, asking where we'd been.
95
363000
4000
珍妮佛：一個軍人走在路上，問我們從哪裡來，
06:32
Evelyn and I hid behind my mother.
96
367000
6000
艾佛琳和我躲在媽媽後面。
06:38
Evelyn: He ordered us to sit down, so we sat down.
97
373000
3000
艾佛琳：他命令我們坐下，所以我們就坐下來，
06:41
The other soldier also came.
98
376000
3000
又來了另一個軍人。
06:44
Jennifer: The man came and started undressing me.
99
379000
4000
珍妮佛：那個人過來把我的衣服脫掉，
06:48
The other one carried Evelyn aside.
100
383000
3000
另一個就把艾佛琳帶走，
06:51
The one who was defiling me then left me and went to rape Evelyn.
101
386000
5000
猥褺我的那個人後來跑去強暴艾佛琳，
06:56
And the one who was raping Evelyn came and defiled me also.
102
391000
4000
之前強暴艾佛琳的人則又跑來猥褺我。♫
07:00
Man: The soldiers with clubs this long beat us to get a confession.
103
395000
8000
男性：拿著長長棍子的軍人毒打我們，要我們招認，
07:08
They kept telling us, "Tell the truth!" as they beat us.
104
403000
12000
他們一邊毒打我們，一邊說：「快招認！」
07:20
Woman: They insisted that I was lying.
105
415000
5000
女性：他們一直認為我在說謊，
07:25
At that moment, they fired and shot off my fingers.
106
420000
5000
所以就開槍射斷了我的手指，
07:30
I fell. They ran to join the others ... leaving me for dead.
107
425000
9000
我倒了下來，他們跑回原隊伍，就讓我在那裡等死。
07:43
(Music)
108
438000
2000
(音樂)
07:45
Text: Uganda ratified the Convention Against Torture in 1986.
109
440000
9000
文字：烏干達在1986年通過了反虐待公約。
07:54
Torture is defined as any act by which severe pain of suffering,
110
449000
4000
凡憑藉公權力，意圖獲取資訊、
07:58
whether physical or mental,
111
453000
3000
逼供、處罰、
08:01
is intentionally inflicted by a person acting in an official capacity
112
456000
4000
脅迫或恫嚇，而刻意將巨大的痛楚
08:05
to obtain information or a confession, to punish, coerce or intimidate.
113
460000
6000
施加於另一人的身體或心理，都被定義為虐待。
08:13
Peter Gabriel: So torture is not something that always happens on other soil.
114
468000
5000
不是只有別的國家才會有虐待的事情發生，
08:19
In my country, it was --
115
474000
2000
在我們國家，
08:21
we had been looking at pictures of British soldiers beating up young Iraqis;
116
476000
6000
就有英國軍人毒打年輕伊拉克人的照片曝光，
08:28
we've got Abu Ghraib; we've got Guantanamo Bay.
117
483000
2000
還有阿布格來布監獄和關達那摩監獄(均有虐囚案)，
08:30
I had a driver on my way to Newark Airport,
118
485000
3000
載我到紐渥克機場的司機，
08:33
and he told me a story that, in the middle of the night, 4 a.m.,
119
488000
6000
他告訴我，某天半夜四點鐘，
08:39
he'd been taken out of his home in Queens -- taken to a place in the Midwest,
120
494000
6000
他被人從皇后區的家中帶走，帶到（美國）中西部，
08:45
that he was interrogated and tortured
121
500000
4000
在那裡被人毒打和審問，
08:49
and returned to the street four weeks later,
122
504000
4000
四個星期之後才被放走，
08:53
because he had the same -- he was Middle Eastern,
123
508000
3000
只因為他是中東人，而他的名字，
08:56
and he had the same name as one of the 9/11 pilots,
124
511000
4000
他的名字剛好和911事件中的飛機駕駛同名。
09:00
and that may or may not be true --
125
515000
4000
這件事或許是真的，也有可能是假的，
09:04
I didn't think he was a liar, though.
126
519000
3000
但我認為他沒有說謊。
09:07
And, I think, if we look around the world,
127
522000
3000
我想，在我們觀看這個世界的同時，
09:11
as well as the polar ice caps melting,
128
526000
2000
北極冰山正在溶化，
09:13
human rights, which have been fought for,
129
528000
3000
而我們奮鬥了
09:16
for many hundreds of years in some cases,
130
531000
3000
幾個世紀的人權，
09:19
are, also, eroding very fast,
131
534000
3000
也正快速地被侵蝕，
09:22
and that is something that we need to take a look at
132
537000
4000
或許，人權是值得我們觀注的議題，
09:26
and, maybe, start campaigning for.
133
541000
4000
我們或許也該為人權做些事了。
09:30
I mean, here, too, one of our partners was at Van Jones
134
545000
5000
就在這裡，我們有一位夥伴，參加了范瓊斯所發起的
09:35
and the Books Not Bars project -- they have managed,
135
550000
4000
「要教育，不要監獄」活動，
09:39
with their footage in California
136
554000
3000
他們希望能在加州用影片
09:42
to change the youth correction systems employed,
137
557000
5000
來改變目前的青少年行為矯正體系，
09:47
and it's much -- much -- I think, more humane methods
138
562000
5000
他們在找的是更有人性的作法，
09:52
are being looked at, how you should lock up young kids,
139
567000
4000
而不只是把青少年關在監獄，
09:56
and that's questionable to start off.
140
571000
2000
那絕對是個不好的開始。
09:58
And as the story of Mr. Morales, just down the road,
141
573000
4000
就像道德先生這個故事所講的，
10:04
excuse me, Mr. Gabriel,
142
579000
2000
「抱歉，凱柏爾先生，
10:06
would you mind if we delayed your execution a little bit?
143
581000
4000
你介意我們將你的死刑延後一點嗎？」
10:10
No, not at all, no problem, take your time.
144
585000
3000
「不會，沒問題，就慢慢來吧。」
10:13
But this, surely, whoever that man is, whatever he's done,
145
588000
6000
但不管那個人是誰、做了什麼，
10:19
this is cruel and unusual punishment.
146
594000
3000
那都是殘忍且特殊的處罰。
10:23
Anyway, WITNESS has been trying to arm the brave people
147
598000
6000
證人計畫要做的是去武裝那些勇敢的人，
10:29
who often put their lives at risk around the world, with cameras,
148
604000
4000
他們冒著生命危險，帶著攝影機到世界各地，
10:33
and I'd like to show you just a little more of that. Thank you.
149
608000
3000
讓我們再看一段影片，謝謝。
10:41
(Thunder) Text: You can say a story is fabricated.
150
616000
2000
(雷聲)
10:44
(Music)
151
619000
4000
(音樂)
10:48
Text: You can say a jury is corrupt.
152
623000
2000
文字：你可以說陪審團貪污，
10:53
You can say a person is lying.
153
628000
2000
你也可以指控某人說謊，
11:00
You can say you don't trust newspapers.
154
635000
2000
你也可以說你不相信報紙，
11:06
But you can't say
155
641000
2000
但你不能說
11:12
what you just saw
156
647000
3000
你所看到的事情
11:15
never happened.
157
650000
3000
從未發生過。
11:22
Help WITNESS give cameras to the world.
158
657000
5000
協助證人計畫，將攝影機散佈到全世界，
11:27
Shoot a video;
159
662000
2000
拍下一段影片，
11:36
expose injustice;
160
671000
2000
揭發不公不義的事，
11:42
reveal the truth;
161
677000
2000
告訴我們真相，
11:47
show us what's wrong with the world;
162
682000
2000
讓我們知道世界上發生了什麼事，
11:52
and maybe
163
687000
2000
或許，
11:54
we can help
164
689000
2000
我們就能
11:56
make it
165
691000
2000
導正
11:58
right.
166
693000
5000
這些事。
12:06
WITNESS.
167
701000
4000
「證人計畫」
12:12
All the video you have just seen was recorded by
168
707000
2000
你所看到的影片是由和證人計畫
12:14
human rights groups working with WITNESS.
169
709000
3000
一同合作的人權團體所拍攝。
12:17
(Applause)
170
712000
3000
(掌聲)
12:22
PG: WITNESS was born of technological innovation --
171
717000
4000
證人計畫是科技創新的結晶，
12:26
in a sense the small, portable, DV cam
172
721000
2000
這麼小的一台可攜式數位攝影機，
12:28
was really what allowed it to come into being.
173
723000
3000
就可以讓證人計畫發揮作用。
12:32
And we've also been trying to get computers out to the world,
174
727000
4000
我們也希望把電腦散佈到全世界，
12:36
so that groups can communicate much more effectively,
175
731000
2000
這樣各個團體就可以更有效的溝通，
12:38
campaign much more effectively,
176
733000
2000
也可以更有效率地發起運動。
12:40
but now we have the wonderful possibility,
177
735000
4000
現在，我們有更好的選擇，
12:46
which is given to us from the mobile phone with the camera in it,
178
741000
4000
就是附有攝影機功能的手機，
12:50
because that is cheap; it's ubiquitous; and it's moving fast
179
745000
5000
因為手機很便宜，也很普及，可以讓資訊
12:55
all around the world -- and it's very exciting for us.
180
750000
3000
快速地在世界上流通，所以我們很期待。
12:58
And so, the dream is that we could have a world
181
753000
4000
我們的願望是，
13:02
in which anyone who has anything bad happen to them of this sort
182
757000
6000
希望每當有人發生上述不幸的事時，
13:08
has a chance of getting their story uploaded,
183
763000
4000
可以把他們的故事上傳上來，
13:12
being seen, being watched,
184
767000
3000
讓大家知道，讓大家看到，
13:15
that they really know that they can be heard,
185
770000
3000
他們知道他們的聲音會被聽見，
13:18
that there would be a giant website,
186
773000
4000
所以那將是一個很大的網站，
13:22
maybe, a little like Google Earth,
187
777000
2000
有點像是Google Earth，
13:24
and you could fly over and find out the realities of what's going,
188
779000
4000
你可以點進網站看看世界上的
13:28
for the world's inhabitants. In a way
189
783000
3000
其他居民發生了什麼事。
13:31
what this technology is allowing is, really,
190
786000
3000
科技能幫助我們的是，
13:34
that a lot of the problems of the world can have a human face,
191
789000
4000
讓世界上的問題以人性的角度呈現出來，
13:38
that we can actually see who's dying of AIDS
192
793000
3000
我們就能看到有誰死於愛滋病，
13:41
or who's being beaten up, for the first time,
193
796000
5000
有誰被人毒打一頓。這是我們第一次
13:46
and we can hear their stories in a way that the blogger culture --
194
801000
4000
可以透過部落格看到別人的故事，
13:50
if we can move that into these sort of fields,
195
805000
3000
所以我們若能將這個工具運用到人權領域，
13:53
I think we can really transform the world in all sorts of ways.
196
808000
5000
我相信我們就能以某種方式改變這個世界。
14:00
There could be a new movement growing up,
197
815000
4000
未來會有一股新的運動萌芽，
14:04
rising from the ground, reaching for the light,
198
819000
5000
冒出地面，追尋陽光，
14:09
and growing strong, just like a tree. Thank you.
199
824000
3000
成長茁壯，就像大樹一樣。謝謝各位。
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Peter Gabriel - Musician, activistPeter Gabriel writes incredible songs but, as the co-founder of WITNESS and TheElders.org, is also a powerful human rights advocate.
Why you should listen
Peter Gabriel was a founding member of the extraordinarily successful progressive rock band Genesis. He left the band in 1975 to go solo and, in 1980, set up the international arts festival WOMAD (which stands for World of Music, Arts and Dance) and the record label Real World, both to champion music and artistic innovation from all over the world. Gabriel's stop motion video for "Sledgehammer" has been named the most-played music video in the history of MTV.
Gabriel is also very interested in human rights. In 1992, he co-founded WITNESS.org, an organization that helps human rights activists and citizen witnesses worldwide make change happen through the use of video. The organization not only distributes digital cameras to empower people to document human-rights abuses, but provides a platform for the spread of video that reveals what is really going on in places all over the globe.
In 2007, Gabriel also co-founded theElders.org with Richard Branson and Nelson Mandela, an independent group of global leaders working together for peace and human rights.
Peter Gabriel | Speaker | TED.com