TED2017
Tristan Harris: How a handful of tech companies control billions of minds every day
崔斯頓．哈瑞斯: 科技公司為了吸引你的注意所使用的手段
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Readability: 4
2,591,029 views
設計思考者崔斯頓．哈瑞斯（Tristan Harris）說，有一小部分科技公司的一小部分人，每天掌控制著數十億人的想法，從 Facebook 的消息通知到 Snapstreaks 再到 YouTube 的自動播放，他們都在為同一件東西競爭：你的注意力。哈瑞斯向我們分享了這些公司如何利用我們的心理為他們自己謀利，並且呼籲進行一次經過設計的科技文藝復興，讓科技幫助我們按照我們想要的方式生活。
Tristan Harris - Design thinker
Tristan Harris helps the technology industry more consciously and ethically shape the human spirit and human potential. Full bio
Tristan Harris helps the technology industry more consciously and ethically shape the human spirit and human potential. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I want you to imagine
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我要各位去想像一個場景，
00:15
walking into a room,
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你走進了一個房間，
00:17
a control room with a bunch of people,
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這個控制室裡有一群人，
00:19
a hundred people, hunched
over a desk with little dials,
over a desk with little dials,
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一百多人縮在布置着
各種小儀表盤的辦公桌前，
各種小儀表盤的辦公桌前，
00:23
and that that control room
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而這間控制室，
00:25
will shape the thoughts and feelings
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即將影響
十億多人的想法與感受。
00:29
of a billion people.
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00:32
This might sound like science fiction,
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這聽起來像是科幻小說，
00:35
but this actually exists
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但它確實存在，
00:37
right now, today.
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就在當下，今天。
00:40
I know because I used to be
in one of those control rooms.
in one of those control rooms.
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我會知道的原因，是因為
我也曾經是控制室裡的一員。
我也曾經是控制室裡的一員。
00:44
I was a design ethicist at Google,
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我曾經是谷歌的倫理設計學家，
00:46
where I studied how do you ethically
steer people's thoughts?
steer people's thoughts?
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我在研究如何在符合道德的前提下，
控制人們的思想。
控制人們的思想。
00:50
Because what we don't talk about
is how the handful of people
is how the handful of people
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因為我們不會去討論
00:53
working at a handful
of technology companies
of technology companies
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這幾家科技公司裡面的人
00:56
through their choices will steer
what a billion people are thinking today.
what a billion people are thinking today.
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會如何以他們的選擇意志
去控制十幾億人的想法。
去控制十幾億人的想法。
01:02
Because when you pull out your phone
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因為當你拿出手機時，
01:04
and they design how this works
or what's on the feed,
or what's on the feed,
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他們已經設計好如何運作
或者要給你什麼資訊。
或者要給你什麼資訊。
01:07
it's scheduling little blocks
of time in our minds.
of time in our minds.
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它已經在我們的腦中
安排好很多小時段。
安排好很多小時段。
01:10
If you see a notification,
it schedules you to have thoughts
it schedules you to have thoughts
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如果你看了通知，
這會促使你產生一個
這會促使你產生一個
01:13
that maybe you didn't intend to have.
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你也許不想要的想法。
01:16
If you swipe over that notification,
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如果你跳過那個通知，
01:19
it schedules you into spending
a little bit of time
a little bit of time
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它就會讓你多花點時間
投入到你不想要的東西上，
01:21
getting sucked into something
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01:22
that maybe you didn't intend
to get sucked into.
to get sucked into.
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而你原本也許不想要
花時間在那上面。
花時間在那上面。
01:27
When we talk about technology,
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當我們在談論科技時，
01:30
we tend to talk about it
as this blue sky opportunity.
as this blue sky opportunity.
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我們傾向於把它當作是
湛藍天空的機會。
湛藍天空的機會。
01:32
It could go any direction.
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它可以往任何方向發展。
01:35
And I want to get serious for a moment
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但我想認真地說，
01:37
and tell you why it's going
in a very specific direction.
in a very specific direction.
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我要告訴各位，
為什麼科技正在往特定的方向發展。
為什麼科技正在往特定的方向發展。
01:40
Because it's not evolving randomly.
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因為科技的演變不是隨機的。
01:44
There's a hidden goal
driving the direction
driving the direction
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在我們所有創造的科技背後，
01:46
of all of the technology we make,
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都隱藏著一個特定目標，
01:48
and that goal is the race
for our attention.
for our attention.
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而那個目標就是
競相爭奪我們的注意力。
競相爭奪我們的注意力。
01:52
Because every new site --
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因為每一個新網頁──
01:55
TED, elections, politicians,
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TED 網頁、選舉網頁、政客網頁、
01:58
games, even meditation apps --
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遊戲網頁，甚至是冥想的應用軟體──
02:00
have to compete for one thing,
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都必須競爭同樣的東西，
02:03
which is our attention,
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也就是我們的注意力，
02:04
and there's only so much of it.
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但市場就這麼大。
02:08
And the best way to get people's attention
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而要獲得人們注意力的最佳方法，
02:10
is to know how someone's mind works.
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就是去了解使用者的腦袋
是如何運作的。
是如何運作的。
02:13
And there's a whole bunch
of persuasive techniques
of persuasive techniques
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有很多說服的技巧，
02:16
that I learned in college at a lab
called the Persuasive Technology Lab
called the Persuasive Technology Lab
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我是從大學的
「說服力技術實驗室」學來的，
「說服力技術實驗室」學來的，
02:19
to get people's attention.
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他們教你如何獲得別人的注意力。
02:21
A simple example is YouTube.
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一個簡單的例子就是 YouTube。
02:24
YouTube wants to maximize
how much time you spend.
how much time you spend.
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YouTube 想要最大化
你花費在他們網站的時間。
你花費在他們網站的時間。
02:26
And so what do they do?
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那他們會怎麼做？
02:28
They autoplay the next video.
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他們會幫你自動撥放下一部片。
02:31
And let's say that works really well.
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這一招真的很有效，
02:33
They're getting a little bit
more of people's time.
more of people's time.
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他們也因此得到
使用者更多的時間。
使用者更多的時間。
02:36
Well, if you're Netflix,
you look at that and say,
you look at that and say,
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但，如果你是 Netflix，
你看到了這樣的狀況，你會說，
你看到了這樣的狀況，你會說，
02:38
well, that's shrinking my market share,
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不行，這樣會把我的客戶給搶走，
02:40
so I'm going to autoplay the next episode.
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所以，我也要自動播放下一集。
02:43
But then if you're Facebook,
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但如果你是 Facebook，
02:44
you say, that's shrinking
all of my market share,
all of my market share,
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你會說，那這樣我的市場
都被你們瓜分掉了，
都被你們瓜分掉了，
02:47
so now I have to autoplay
all the videos in the newsfeed
all the videos in the newsfeed
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所以我會在你點擊播放按鍵前
02:49
before waiting for you to click play.
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自動播放所有的影片給你看。
02:52
So the internet is not evolving at random.
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所以，網際網路的演化不是隨機的。
02:56
The reason it feels
like it's sucking us in the way it is
like it's sucking us in the way it is
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它會讓你感覺欲罷不能的原因，
就是因為這場注意力的爭奪賽。
03:00
is because of this race for attention.
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03:03
We know where this is going.
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我們知道這會有什麼後果。
03:04
Technology is not neutral,
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因為科技不是中立的。
03:07
and it becomes this race
to the bottom of the brain stem
to the bottom of the brain stem
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這個競賽已變成
看誰可以更深地滲入
使用者腦袋的比賽。
使用者腦袋的比賽。
03:10
of who can go lower to get it.
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03:13
Let me give you an example of Snapchat.
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我跟各位舉個例子， Snapchat。
03:16
If you didn't know,
Snapchat is the number one way
Snapchat is the number one way
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不知道各位是否了解，
Snapchat 目前是
Snapchat 目前是
美國年輕人之間，
最熱門的社交軟體。
最熱門的社交軟體。
03:20
that teenagers in
the United States communicate.
the United States communicate.
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03:22
So if you're like me, and you use
text messages to communicate,
text messages to communicate,
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所以，如果你們和我一樣，
有在用簡訊在與人交流，
有在用簡訊在與人交流，
應該知道 Snapchat 就是專門
設計給年輕人使用的，
設計給年輕人使用的，
03:26
Snapchat is that for teenagers,
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03:28
and there's, like,
a hundred million of them that use it.
a hundred million of them that use it.
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差不多將近有一億人在使用它。
03:31
And they invented
a feature called Snapstreaks,
a feature called Snapstreaks,
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這家公司發明了一個叫做
Snapstreaks 的特色功能，
Snapstreaks 的特色功能，
03:33
which shows the number of days in a row
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它會告訴你，
你跟你朋友兩個人之間，
連續不間斷地聊了幾天。
連續不間斷地聊了幾天。
03:35
that two people have
communicated with each other.
communicated with each other.
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03:37
In other words, what they just did
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換句話說，它們給予的是一種
03:39
is they gave two people
something they don't want to lose.
something they don't want to lose.
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兩人都捨不得放棄的東西。
03:44
Because if you're a teenager,
and you have 150 days in a row,
and you have 150 days in a row,
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因為，如果你是年輕人
而有著連續 150 天的聊天紀錄，
而有著連續 150 天的聊天紀錄，
03:47
you don't want that to go away.
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你不會想讓紀錄就此中斷的。
03:49
And so think of the little blocks of time
that that schedules in kids' minds.
that that schedules in kids' minds.
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所以想想孩子們
腦袋裡被設定好的時間模式。
腦袋裡被設定好的時間模式。
03:54
This isn't theoretical:
when kids go on vacation,
when kids go on vacation,
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我沒在騙你：已經有人證實，
當孩子在度假時，
當孩子在度假時，
03:56
it's been shown they give their passwords
to up to five other friends
to up to five other friends
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他們會把密碼給另外五位朋友，
03:59
to keep their Snapstreaks going,
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請他們幫忙維持
Snapstreaks 的聊天記錄，
Snapstreaks 的聊天記錄，
04:02
even when they can't do it.
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就算他們不能用手機。
04:04
And they have, like, 30 of these things,
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他們差不多有 30 種類似
這樣的東西要維護，
這樣的東西要維護，
04:06
and so they have to get through
taking photos of just pictures or walls
taking photos of just pictures or walls
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所以他們每天要東拍拍、西拍拍
拍牆壁、拍天花板，
不然當天他們會渾身不舒服。
不然當天他們會渾身不舒服。
04:09
or ceilings just to get through their day.
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04:13
So it's not even like
they're having real conversations.
they're having real conversations.
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所以這根本不像是
他們在真正的交流。
他們在真正的交流。
04:15
We have a temptation to think about this
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我們可能會這麽想，
04:17
as, oh, they're just using Snapchat
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他們用 Snapchat 的方式
04:20
the way we used to
gossip on the telephone.
gossip on the telephone.
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就像我們曾經用電話聊八卦一樣。
04:22
It's probably OK.
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應該還好吧！
04:24
Well, what this misses
is that in the 1970s,
is that in the 1970s,
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但，不同於 1970 年代的是：
04:26
when you were just
gossiping on the telephone,
gossiping on the telephone,
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當你們用電話聊八卦時，
04:29
there wasn't a hundred engineers
on the other side of the screen
on the other side of the screen
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旁邊並沒有數百位工程師在監控你，
04:32
who knew exactly
how your psychology worked
how your psychology worked
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準確地知道你的心理，
04:34
and orchestrated you
into a double bind with each other.
into a double bind with each other.
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並操控著你們倆緊緊地綁在一起。
04:38
Now, if this is making you
feel a little bit of outrage,
feel a little bit of outrage,
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如果現在你有點生氣了，
04:42
notice that that thought
just comes over you.
just comes over you.
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有沒有注意到，你生氣了？
04:45
Outrage is a really good way also
of getting your attention,
of getting your attention,
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因為激怒你也是引起你
注意的方式之一，
注意的方式之一，
04:49
because we don't choose outrage.
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因為就算我們不想生氣，
04:51
It happens to us.
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它還是會發生。
04:52
And if you're the Facebook newsfeed,
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如果你是 Facebook 的新聞推送者，
04:54
whether you'd want to or not,
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不管你是刻意或是不經意，
04:56
you actually benefit when there's outrage.
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人們憤怒的時候，實際上你是受益的。
04:59
Because outrage
doesn't just schedule a reaction
doesn't just schedule a reaction
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因為憤怒不僅僅在
情感上讓你有個宣洩的出口，
情感上讓你有個宣洩的出口，
05:01
in emotional time, space, for you.
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更提供了你一個發洩的空間。
05:05
We want to share that outrage
with other people.
with other people.
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我們還會想和其他人
分享我們的憤怒。
分享我們的憤怒。
05:07
So we want to hit share and say,
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所以我們會按下分享鍵然後說，
05:09
"Can you believe the thing
that they said?"
that they said?"
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「你敢相信他們說的嗎？」
05:12
And so outrage works really well
at getting attention,
at getting attention,
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所以讓人發怒，可以吸引到注意力，
05:15
such that if Facebook had a choice
between showing you the outrage feed
between showing you the outrage feed
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所以，如果 Facebook 可以在
向你展示令人憤怒或者
令人平靜的消息之間進行選擇，
令人平靜的消息之間進行選擇，
05:19
and a calm newsfeed,
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05:22
they would want
to show you the outrage feed,
to show you the outrage feed,
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他們會選擇向你展示令人憤怒的消息，
05:24
not because someone
consciously chose that,
consciously chose that,
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不是因為有人刻意如此選，
05:26
but because that worked better
at getting your attention.
at getting your attention.
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只是因為這樣可以讓你
更注意到他們。
更注意到他們。
05:31
And the newsfeed control room
is not accountable to us.
is not accountable to us.
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新聞控制室不對我們負責。
05:37
It's only accountable
to maximizing attention.
to maximizing attention.
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它只對最大化注意力負責。
05:39
It's also accountable,
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它也要向──
05:40
because of the business model
of advertising,
of advertising,
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因為商業模式的關係，
05:43
for anybody who can pay the most
to actually walk into the control room
to actually walk into the control room
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它也要向走進控制室
付廣告費的人負責，
付廣告費的人負責，
05:46
and say, "That group over there,
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他們會說，「那個團體在那邊，
05:47
I want to schedule these thoughts
into their minds."
into their minds."
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我想要灌輸一些想法到他們腦裡。」
05:51
So you can target,
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所以你可以定位，
05:54
you can precisely target a lie
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你可以準確直接定位到
05:56
directly to the people
who are most susceptible.
who are most susceptible.
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那些最容易被受到影響的人。
06:00
And because this is profitable,
it's only going to get worse.
it's only going to get worse.
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因為這是有利可圖的，
所以狀況只會越來越糟。
所以狀況只會越來越糟。
06:05
So I'm here today
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所以我今天來到這裡的原因，
06:08
because the costs are so obvious.
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是因為這件事的代價太高了。
06:12
I don't know a more urgent
problem than this,
problem than this,
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我認為沒有其它事
比這問題還要緊急，
比這問題還要緊急，
06:14
because this problem
is underneath all other problems.
is underneath all other problems.
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因為其它所有問題的背後，
都與這個問題有關。
都與這個問題有關。
06:18
It's not just taking away our agency
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它不僅剝奪我們的自主權，
06:21
to spend our attention
and live the lives that we want,
and live the lives that we want,
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還浪費我們的注意力，
影響我們的生活方式。
影響我們的生活方式。
06:25
it's changing the way
that we have our conversations,
that we have our conversations,
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也改變了我們的交流方式，
06:29
it's changing our democracy,
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改變了我們的民主制度，
06:31
and it's changing our ability
to have the conversations
to have the conversations
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而且還改變了我們
想要與他人交流、
想要與他人交流、
06:33
and relationships we want with each other.
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維持關係的能力。
06:37
And it affects everyone,
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這會影響到每一個人，
06:38
because a billion people
have one of these in their pocket.
have one of these in their pocket.
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因為十幾億人口的口袋裡
都有一台這個東西。
都有一台這個東西。
06:45
So how do we fix this?
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所以我們要如何修復這個問題？
06:49
We need to make three radical changes
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我們需要對科技和我們的社會
06:52
to technology and to our society.
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做三大激進的改變。
06:55
The first is we need to acknowledge
that we are persuadable.
that we are persuadable.
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首先，我們需要了解
我們是會被說服的。
我們是會被說服的。
07:00
Once you start understanding
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一旦你了解
07:02
that your mind can be scheduled
into having little thoughts
into having little thoughts
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人腦可以被有計劃性地
注入一些思想
注入一些思想
07:05
or little blocks of time
that you didn't choose,
that you didn't choose,
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或被占用掉一些時間時，
07:07
wouldn't we want to use that understanding
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我們難道不會利用這點
07:09
and protect against the way
that that happens?
that that happens?
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來防止這樣的事發生嗎？
07:12
I think we need to see ourselves
fundamentally in a new way.
fundamentally in a new way.
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我認為我們需要以全新的方式審視自己。
07:15
It's almost like a new period
of human history,
of human history,
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就像是人類歷史上新的篇章，
07:18
like the Enlightenment,
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就像啟蒙運動，
07:19
but almost a kind of
self-aware Enlightenment,
self-aware Enlightenment,
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但是是自覺性的啟蒙運動，
07:21
that we can be persuaded,
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瞭解到我們是會被說服的，
07:24
and there might be something
we want to protect.
we want to protect.
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並意識到我們也有想要保護的東西。
07:27
The second is we need new models
and accountability systems
and accountability systems
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第二點是我們需要新的
模式和責任系統，
模式和責任系統，
07:32
so that as the world gets better
and more and more persuasive over time --
and more and more persuasive over time --
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如此，當世界變得越來越好、
我們越來越容易被說服時──
我們越來越容易被說服時──
07:35
because it's only going
to get more persuasive --
to get more persuasive --
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因為它只會變得更有說服力──
07:37
that the people in those control rooms
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這樣在控制室裡的那些人
07:39
are accountable and transparent
to what we want.
to what we want.
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才會對我們想要的東西負責
並把它透明化。
並把它透明化。
07:42
The only form of ethical
persuasion that exists
persuasion that exists
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道德說服存在的唯一前提就是：
07:44
is when the goals of the persuader
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只有當說服者的目標
07:46
are aligned with the goals
of the persuadee.
of the persuadee.
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和被說服者的目標是一致時才存在。
07:49
And that involves questioning big things,
like the business model of advertising.
like the business model of advertising.
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而這涉及到對大型事件的質疑，
像是廣告的商業模式。
像是廣告的商業模式。
07:54
Lastly,
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最後，
07:56
we need a design renaissance,
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我們需要一個經過設計的
科技文藝復興，
科技文藝復興，
07:59
because once you have
this view of human nature,
this view of human nature,
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因為一旦你對人性本質
有一定的了解，
有一定的了解，
08:02
that you can steer the timelines
of a billion people --
of a billion people --
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那你就可以控制十億人的時間軸──
08:05
just imagine, there's people
who have some desire
who have some desire
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想像一下，人都會有一些慾望，
08:07
about what they want to do
and what they want to be thinking
and what they want to be thinking
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會有想做的事、想思考的事、
想感受的事物、想了解的事物，
08:10
and what they want to be feeling
and how they want to be informed,
and how they want to be informed,
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而我們卻只能被引導到其它方向。
08:13
and we're all just tugged
into these other directions.
into these other directions.
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十億人只會被引導到這些不同的方向。
08:16
And you have a billion people just tugged
into all these different directions.
into all these different directions.
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所以，試想一下
一個完整的文藝復興設計，
一個完整的文藝復興設計，
08:20
Well, imagine an entire design renaissance
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08:22
that tried to orchestrate
the exact and most empowering
the exact and most empowering
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可以幫助我們引導至
正確的、有自主性的、
正確的、有自主性的、
08:25
time-well-spent way
for those timelines to happen.
for those timelines to happen.
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時間分配良好的路上。
08:28
And that would involve two things:
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那就得包含兩件事：
08:30
one would be protecting
against the timelines
against the timelines
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一是我們要保護自己的時間軸
08:32
that we don't want to be experiencing,
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不被支配到不想經歷的事情上、
08:34
the thoughts that we
wouldn't want to be happening,
wouldn't want to be happening,
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不去產生我們不想要的想法，
08:36
so that when that ding happens,
not having the ding that sends us away;
not having the ding that sends us away;
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如此，當簡訊的提醒聲響起時，
我們就不會被牽著鼻子走；
我們就不會被牽著鼻子走；
08:40
and the second would be empowering us
to live out the timeline that we want.
to live out the timeline that we want.
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二是要讓我們能活出
自己想要的時光。
自己想要的時光。
08:43
So let me give you a concrete example.
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我給各位舉個例子。
08:46
Today, let's say your friend
cancels dinner on you,
cancels dinner on you,
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比如說，今天你朋友取消了
與你的晚餐約會，
與你的晚餐約會，
08:48
and you are feeling a little bit lonely.
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所以你感到有點寂寞。
那當下你會做甚麼？
08:52
And so what do you do in that moment?
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08:54
You open up Facebook.
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你會打開 Facebook。
08:56
And in that moment,
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而就在那一刻，
08:58
the designers in the control room
want to schedule exactly one thing,
want to schedule exactly one thing,
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控制室裡的設計者
想要準確地規劃一件事，
想要準確地規劃一件事，
09:02
which is to maximize how much time
you spend on the screen.
you spend on the screen.
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那就是最大化你盯著螢幕的時間。
09:06
Now, instead, imagine if those designers
created a different timeline
created a different timeline
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現在，反過來，想像一下，
是否這些設計師可以創造出一個
是否這些設計師可以創造出一個
09:10
that was the easiest way,
using all of their data,
using all of their data,
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不一樣的時間軸，以最簡單的方法、
利用他們所有的數據，
利用他們所有的數據，
09:14
to actually help you get out
with the people that you care about?
with the people that you care about?
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幫你準確地約出你關心的人？
09:17
Just think, alleviating
all loneliness in society,
all loneliness in society,
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試想一下，消除社會中所有的寂寞，
09:22
if that was the timeline that Facebook
wanted to make possible for people.
wanted to make possible for people.
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這樣的時間軸不就是 Facebook
想要為我們實現的嗎？
想要為我們實現的嗎？
09:26
Or imagine a different conversation.
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或試想另一個對話。
09:27
Let's say you wanted to post
something supercontroversial on Facebook,
something supercontroversial on Facebook,
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比方說你想要在 Facebook 上
發表備受爭議的言論，
發表備受爭議的言論，
09:31
which is a really important
thing to be able to do,
thing to be able to do,
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你覺得這個爭議性話題很重要，
09:33
to talk about controversial topics.
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需要被拿出來討論。
09:35
And right now, when there's
that big comment box,
that big comment box,
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現在，有一個很大的留言區，
09:37
it's almost asking you,
what key do you want to type?
what key do you want to type?
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它就像是在問你，
你想要輸入什麽東西？
你想要輸入什麽東西？
09:41
In other words, it's scheduling
a little timeline of things
a little timeline of things
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換句話說，它正在安排一些時間軸，
09:44
you're going to continue
to do on the screen.
to do on the screen.
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好讓你可以繼續待在螢幕上。
09:46
And imagine instead that there was
another button there saying,
another button there saying,
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試想如果有另一個按鈕跳出來說，
09:49
what would be most
time well spent for you?
time well spent for you?
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你想怎麼安排你的時間？
09:51
And you click "host a dinner."
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然後你點選，「舉辦一個晚餐的聚會」。
09:52
And right there
underneath the item it said,
underneath the item it said,
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然後，底下就會跳出一個，
09:54
"Who wants to RSVP for the dinner?"
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「有誰想要聚餐，請盡速回覆」？
09:56
And so you'd still have a conversation
about something controversial,
about something controversial,
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所以，你的爭議性話題
可以被繼續討論，
可以被繼續討論，
09:59
but you'd be having it in the most
empowering place on your timeline,
empowering place on your timeline,
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而且可以放置在你時間軸上
最顯眼的位置，
最顯眼的位置，
10:03
which would be at home that night
with a bunch of a friends over
with a bunch of a friends over
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那天晚上，你就可以邀請到一堆朋友
10:06
to talk about it.
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來你家裡晚餐並討論這個話題。
10:09
So imagine we're running, like,
a find and replace
a find and replace
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想像我們正在賽跑，
想盡快找到並替換掉
想盡快找到並替換掉
10:13
on all of the timelines
that are currently steering us
that are currently steering us
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所有那些正在促使我們
10:15
towards more and more
screen time persuasively
screen time persuasively
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花越來越多的時間在螢幕上的時間軸，
10:19
and replacing all of those timelines
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並盡快把這些時間軸
10:21
with what do we want in our lives.
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用我們在生活中想做的事情替代掉。
10:26
It doesn't have to be this way.
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真的不須要這樣。
10:30
Instead of handicapping our attention,
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不需要癱瘓我們的注意力，
10:32
imagine if we used all of this data
and all of this power
and all of this power
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試想如果我們利用所有這些數據和能力，
10:35
and this new view of human nature
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加上對人性本質的全新認識，
10:37
to give us a superhuman ability to focus
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來讓我們擁有超人般的注意力、
10:40
and a superhuman ability to put
our attention to what we cared about
our attention to what we cared about
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讓我們更關心我們在乎的事情、
10:44
and a superhuman ability
to have the conversations
to have the conversations
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讓我們擁有超人般的能力，
10:46
that we need to have for democracy.
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來進行民主所需要的互動交流。
10:51
The most complex challenges in the world
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世界上最複雜的挑戰，
10:56
require not just us
to use our attention individually.
to use our attention individually.
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不僅需要我們每個人的注意力。
11:00
They require us to use our attention
and coordinate it together.
and coordinate it together.
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也需要我們的同心協力才能克服。
11:04
Climate change is going to require
that a lot of people
that a lot of people
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地球暖化議題需要大家
11:07
are being able
to coordinate their attention
to coordinate their attention
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一起使用最有力的方式
11:09
in the most empowering way together.
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將所有人的注意力整合起來。
11:11
And imagine creating
a superhuman ability to do that.
a superhuman ability to do that.
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試想如果有了這樣的超人能力會怎樣。
11:19
Sometimes the world's
most pressing and important problems
most pressing and important problems
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有時世界上最要緊、最重要的問題
11:24
are not these hypothetical future things
that we could create in the future.
that we could create in the future.
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不是未來我們可以創造的
假設性事物。
假設性事物。
11:28
Sometimes the most pressing problems
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有時最要緊的問題，
11:30
are the ones that are
right underneath our noses,
right underneath our noses,
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就是我們眼前的問題，
11:32
the things that are already directing
a billion people's thoughts.
a billion people's thoughts.
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已經在影響著十億人思想的事情。
11:36
And maybe instead of getting excited
about the new augmented reality
about the new augmented reality
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與其花時間對擴增實境感到興奮、
11:40
and virtual reality
and these cool things that could happen,
and these cool things that could happen,
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對虛擬實境這類酷炫產品感到興奮──
11:43
which are going to be susceptible
to the same race for attention,
to the same race for attention,
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對這些注意力競賽的產品感到興奮──
11:46
if we could fix the race for attention
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不如把時間放在修正注意力競賽上，
11:48
on the thing that's already
in a billion people's pockets.
in a billion people's pockets.
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修正十億人口袋裡的那台機器上。
11:52
Maybe instead of getting excited
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與其花時間對刺激、
11:53
about the most exciting
new cool fancy education apps,
new cool fancy education apps,
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酷炫的教育軟體感到興奮，
11:57
we could fix the way
kids' minds are getting manipulated
kids' minds are getting manipulated
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不如花時間找出方法，
來挽救那些已經被操控、
來挽救那些已經被操控、
12:00
into sending empty messages
back and forth.
back and forth.
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腦中只想傳些空洞簡訊的孩子們。
12:04
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
12:08
Maybe instead of worrying
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與其擔憂那假想的未來：
12:09
about hypothetical future
runaway artificial intelligences
runaway artificial intelligences
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只為了吸引我們注意力的
人工智慧未來，
人工智慧未來，
12:13
that are maximizing for one goal,
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12:16
we could solve the runaway
artificial intelligence
artificial intelligence
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倒不如開始解決我們現有的、
12:19
that already exists right now,
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已經失去控制的人工智慧，
12:21
which are these newsfeeds
maximizing for one thing.
maximizing for one thing.
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也就是這些為了吸引我們注意力
推送新聞的人工智慧機器。
推送新聞的人工智慧機器。
12:26
It's almost like instead of running away
to colonize new planets,
to colonize new planets,
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就像是，與其逃跑到新的殖民星球，
12:29
we could fix the one
that we're already on.
that we're already on.
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不如好好地拯救我們的地球。
12:32
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
12:40
Solving this problem
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解決這個問題
12:41
is critical infrastructure
for solving every other problem.
for solving every other problem.
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是解決其它問題的關鍵所在。
12:46
There's nothing in your life
or in our collective problems
or in our collective problems
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在你生命中或是我們彼此的共同問題中，
12:50
that does not require our ability
to put our attention where we care about.
to put our attention where we care about.
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沒有一件事是不需要我們
花時間關注、花心思在乎的。
花時間關注、花心思在乎的。
12:55
At the end of our lives,
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畢竟，到了生命的盡頭，
12:58
all we have is our attention and our time.
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我們最後所擁有的
就是曾經在乎的美好時光。
就是曾經在乎的美好時光。
13:01
What will be time well spent for ours?
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讓時間為我們所用。
13:03
Thank you.
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謝謝各位。
13:04
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
13:17
Chris Anderson: Tristan, thank you.
Hey, stay up here a sec.
Hey, stay up here a sec.
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克里斯 · 安德森：
崔斯頓，謝謝你。請留步。
崔斯頓，謝謝你。請留步。
13:20
First of all, thank you.
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首先，謝謝你。
13:22
I know we asked you to do this talk
on pretty short notice,
on pretty short notice,
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我知道我們很晚才通知你要做這次演講，
13:24
and you've had quite a stressful week
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你這禮拜壓力很大，
13:27
getting this thing together, so thank you.
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為了這次的演講，所以謝謝你。
13:30
Some people listening might say,
what you complain about is addiction,
what you complain about is addiction,
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有些聽眾可能會說，
你抱怨的是沉迷，
你抱怨的是沉迷，
13:34
and all these people doing this stuff,
for them it's actually interesting.
for them it's actually interesting.
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而對於那些已經沉迷的人來說，
他們認為那是興趣。
他們認為那是興趣。
13:38
All these design decisions
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所有這些設計過的決策、內容，
13:39
have built user content
that is fantastically interesting.
that is fantastically interesting.
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對用戶而言是相當有趣的。
13:42
The world's more interesting
than it ever has been.
than it ever has been.
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這個世界從未如此有趣過。
13:45
What's wrong with that?
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這有什麽錯嗎？
13:46
Tristan Harris:
I think it's really interesting.
I think it's really interesting.
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崔斯頓．哈瑞斯：我認為這確實有趣。
我們換個角度看這件事，
假設，你在用 Youtube 看影片，
假設，你在用 Youtube 看影片，
13:48
One way to see this
is if you're just YouTube, for example,
is if you're just YouTube, for example,
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13:52
you want to always show
the more interesting next video.
the more interesting next video.
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你總是希望下一部影片是最有趣的。
13:55
You want to get better and better
at suggesting that next video,
at suggesting that next video,
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你希望下一部推薦的影片越來越棒，
但是即使你推薦了一部比一部好看，
所有人都想要看的完美影片，
所有人都想要看的完美影片，
13:58
but even if you could propose
the perfect next video
the perfect next video
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14:00
that everyone would want to watch,
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這只會讓你一直盯著螢幕看。
14:02
it would just be better and better
at keeping you hooked on the screen.
at keeping you hooked on the screen.
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而其中遺漏的是要找出
我們的邊界。對吧？
我們的邊界。對吧？
14:05
So what's missing in that equation
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14:07
is figuring out what
our boundaries would be.
our boundaries would be.
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你會想讓 YouTube 知道，
你甚麼時候會「睡著」嗎？
你甚麼時候會「睡著」嗎？
14:09
You would want YouTube to know
something about, say, falling asleep.
something about, say, falling asleep.
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Netflix 的 CEO 最近說，
14:12
The CEO of Netflix recently said,
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我們最大的競爭者就是臉書、
YouTube 和「睡著了」，對吧？
YouTube 和「睡著了」，對吧？
14:14
"our biggest competitors
are Facebook, YouTube and sleep."
are Facebook, YouTube and sleep."
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14:17
And so what we need to recognize
is that the human architecture is limited
is that the human architecture is limited
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所以我們需要認識到
人體是有極限的、
人體是有極限的、
14:21
and that we have certain boundaries
or dimensions of our lives
or dimensions of our lives
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我們的生活是有某種界線的、
14:24
that we want to be honored and respected,
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我們都想要被尊重，
14:26
and technology could help do that.
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而科技可以幫我們做到。
14:28
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
14:31
CA: I mean, could you make the case
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克里斯：可否請你說明一下，
14:33
that part of the problem here is that
we've got a naïve model of human nature?
we've got a naïve model of human nature?
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這裡還有個問題是，會不會
我們把人性想的太天真了？
我們把人性想的太天真了？
14:39
So much of this is justified
in terms of human preference,
in terms of human preference,
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如何判別各式各樣
人類偏好的合理性，
人類偏好的合理性，
14:41
where we've got these algorithms
that do an amazing job
that do an amazing job
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我們可以用這些演算法
幫我們完成，
幫我們完成，
14:44
of optimizing for human preference,
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幫我們優化人類的偏好，
14:46
but which preference?
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但是，是哪方面的偏好？
14:47
There's the preferences
of things that we really care about
of things that we really care about
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有我們確實關心的、
14:51
when we think about them
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在意的事情的偏好，
14:52
versus the preferences
of what we just instinctively click on.
of what we just instinctively click on.
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也有我們只是直覺地點擊的偏好。
14:55
If we could implant that more nuanced
view of human nature in every design,
view of human nature in every design,
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如果我們在每個設計中
植入了對人性本質的微妙了解，
植入了對人性本質的微妙了解，
15:00
would that be a step forward?
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這會是一種進步嗎？
15:01
TH: Absolutely. I mean, I think right now
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崔斯頓：那是肯定的。
我的意思是，我認為現在
我的意思是，我認為現在
好像我們的科技基本上
15:03
it's as if all of our technology
is basically only asking our lizard brain
is basically only asking our lizard brain
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只詢問我們本能反應的腦的意見，
15:07
what's the best way
to just impulsively get you to do
to just impulsively get you to do
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它們最好的方式就是強迫你
15:09
the next tiniest thing with your time,
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在下一秒、下一刻做出一些小事，
15:11
instead of asking you in your life
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而不是問你人生中的大事、
15:13
what we would be most
time well spent for you?
time well spent for you?
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問你花時間在哪方面
才是對你有幫助的？
才是對你有幫助的？
也不是問你接下來
完美的時間安排是怎樣的，
完美的時間安排是怎樣的，
15:15
What would be the perfect timeline
that might include something later,
that might include something later,
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最後一天你要不要
聽一下 TED 演講之類的？
聽一下 TED 演講之類的？
15:19
would be time well spent for you
here at TED in your last day here?
here at TED in your last day here?
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克里斯： 所以，是不是要臉書、
谷歌在一開始就問我們，
谷歌在一開始就問我們，
15:22
CA: So if Facebook and Google
and everyone said to us first up,
and everyone said to us first up,
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嘿，你想要我們優化思考的腦
還是優化本能反應的腦？
還是優化本能反應的腦？
15:25
"Hey, would you like us
to optimize for your reflective brain
to optimize for your reflective brain
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15:28
or your lizard brain? You choose."
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由你來選擇。
15:29
TH: Right. That would be one way. Yes.
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崔斯頓：是的。這也是個方法。是的。
15:34
CA: You said persuadability,
that's an interesting word to me
that's an interesting word to me
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克里斯：你剛提到的「說服能力」，
對我來說這個詞很有趣，
對我來說這個詞很有趣，
15:37
because to me there's
two different types of persuadability.
two different types of persuadability.
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因為在我看來，
有兩種不同的說服能力。
有兩種不同的說服能力。
15:40
There's the persuadability
that we're trying right now
that we're trying right now
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有一種說服能力是我們現在在嘗試的，
15:42
of reason and thinking
and making an argument,
and making an argument,
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用前因後果、提出看法的方式說服聽眾，
15:44
but I think you're almost
talking about a different kind,
talking about a different kind,
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但是我覺得你是在談論另一種
15:47
a more visceral type of persuadability,
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更能引起「情緒上本能反應」
的說服能力，
的說服能力，
15:49
of being persuaded without
even knowing that you're thinking.
even knowing that you're thinking.
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那種不經思考就被說服的能力。
沒錯。我會十分關心這個問題的原因是
15:52
TH: Exactly. The reason
I care about this problem so much is
I care about this problem so much is
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我在史丹佛的說服力技術實驗室待過，
15:55
I studied at a lab called
the Persuasive Technology Lab at Stanford
the Persuasive Technology Lab at Stanford
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那裡就是在教導人們這些技術。
15:58
that taught people
exactly these techniques.
exactly these techniques.
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那裡有論壇和討論，教導人們
使用這些偷偷摸摸的方式
使用這些偷偷摸摸的方式
16:00
There's conferences and workshops
that teach people all these covert ways
that teach people all these covert ways
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16:04
of getting people's attention
and orchestrating people's lives.
and orchestrating people's lives.
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來獲得人們的注意力，
指揮人們的生活。
指揮人們的生活。
16:07
And it's because most people
don't know that that exists
don't know that that exists
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正因為大部分人不知道
有這項技術的存在，
有這項技術的存在，
所以我們的討論才會如此重要。
16:09
that this conversation is so important.
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16:11
CA: Tristan, you and I, we both know
so many people from all these companies.
so many people from all these companies.
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克里斯：崔斯頓，你和我都認識
許多來自這些公司的人。
許多來自這些公司的人。
16:15
There are actually many here in the room,
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許多人也在這裡，
16:17
and I don't know about you,
but my experience of them
but my experience of them
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我不知道你是怎麽樣的，
但就我的經驗而言，
但就我的經驗而言，
16:20
is that there is
no shortage of good intent.
no shortage of good intent.
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他們也都是善意的。
16:22
People want a better world.
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大家都想要一個更好的世界。
16:24
They are actually -- they really want it.
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他們確實──他們真的想要。
16:28
And I don't think anything you're saying
is that these are evil people.
is that these are evil people.
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我不認為你所說的，
是在指這些人是壞人。
是在指這些人是壞人。
16:32
It's a system where there's
these unintended consequences
these unintended consequences
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你指的是有一個系統，
導致了一些意想不到的後果
導致了一些意想不到的後果
16:36
that have really got out of control --
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且超出了控制範圍──
16:38
TH: Of this race for attention.
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崔斯頓：關於注意力的競爭。
16:39
It's the classic race to the bottom
when you have to get attention,
when you have to get attention,
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當你想要吸引人家的注意
它就是一場無視規則的精典賽，
它就是一場無視規則的精典賽，
16:42
and it's so tense.
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而且競爭很激烈。
16:44
The only way to get more
is to go lower on the brain stem,
is to go lower on the brain stem,
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取得更多注意的唯一辦法，
只有更深入腦袋、
只有更深入腦袋、
16:46
to go lower into outrage,
to go lower into emotion,
to go lower into emotion,
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更引起憤怒、更深入情感、
16:49
to go lower into the lizard brain.
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更深入本能反應的腦。
16:51
CA: Well, thank you so much for helping us
all get a little bit wiser about this.
all get a little bit wiser about this.
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克里斯：非常感謝你幫助我們
對這個問題有更進一步的了解。
對這個問題有更進一步的了解。
16:54
Tristan Harris, thank you.
TH: Thank you very much.
TH: Thank you very much.
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謝謝你。
崔斯頓：非常感謝。
16:57
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Tristan Harris - Design thinkerTristan Harris helps the technology industry more consciously and ethically shape the human spirit and human potential.
Why you should listen
Tristan Harris has been called "the closest thing Silicon Valley has to a conscience" by The Atlantic magazine. Prior to founding the new Center for Humane Technology, he was Google's Design Ethicist, developing a framework for how technology should "ethically" steer the thoughts and actions of billions of people from screens.
Harris has spent a decade understanding the invisible influences that hijack human thinking and action. Drawing on literature from addiction, performative magic, social engineering, persuasive design and behavioral economics, he is currently developing a framework for ethical persuasion, especially as it relates to the moral responsibility of technology companies.
Rolling Stone magazine named Harris one of "25 People Shaping the World" in 2017. His work has been featured on TED, "60 Minutes," HBO's "RealTime with Bill Maher," "PBS NewsHour," Recode, The Atlantic, WIRED, the New York Times, Der Spiegel, The Economist and many more. Harris has briefed heads of state, technology company CEOs and members of the US Congress about the attention economy.
Tristan Harris | Speaker | TED.com