TEDxStanford
Salil Dudani: How jails extort the poor
Salil Dudani: Així extorsionen les presons als pobres
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Per què encarcerem gent pobra? Actualment, mig milió d'americans es troben a la presó simplement per no poder permetre's pagar la fiança, i molts més estàn tancats perquè no poden pagar els deutes judicials, sovint per faltes tan mínimes com multes de tràfic. Salil Dudani comparteix històries de persones que han passat per les presons de deutors de Ferguson, Missouri, i ens desafia a canviar la mentalitat sobre la forma en que castiguem els pobres i marginats.
Salil Dudani - Legal activist
Salil Dudani has experienced the legal system from two vantage points: being detained by D.C. police on suspicion of "terrorist activity," and working as an investigator with civil rights lawyers challenging poverty-jailing. Full bio
Salil Dudani has experienced the legal system from two vantage points: being detained by D.C. police on suspicion of "terrorist activity," and working as an investigator with civil rights lawyers challenging poverty-jailing. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
One summer afternoon in 2013,
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Una vesprada d'estiu del 2013,
00:15
DC police detained, questioned
and searched a man
and searched a man
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la policía de DC va detindre,
interrogar i registrar un home
interrogar i registrar un home
00:18
who appeared suspicious
and potentially dangerous.
and potentially dangerous.
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que pareixia sospitós
i potencialment perillós.
i potencialment perillós.
00:22
This wasn't what I was wearing
the day of the detention, to be fair,
the day of the detention, to be fair,
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Açò no era el que portava
el dia de la detenció,
el dia de la detenció,
00:25
but I have a picture of that as well.
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però tinc una foto d'aquell dia.
00:27
I know it's very frightening --
try to remain calm.
try to remain calm.
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Ja sé que fa molta por --
intenteu mantindre la calma.
intenteu mantindre la calma.
00:30
(Laughter)
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(Riures)
00:31
At this time, I was interning
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En aquell moment jo era becari
00:33
at the Public Defender Service
in Washington DC,
in Washington DC,
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al Servei de Defensa Pública
a Washington DC,
a Washington DC,
00:36
and I was visiting
a police station for work.
a police station for work.
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i havia anat per feina
a una comissaria.
a una comissaria.
00:39
I was on my way out,
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Estava eixint,
00:40
and before I could make it to my car,
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i abans d'arribar al cotxe,
00:42
two police cars pulled up
to block my exit,
to block my exit,
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dos cotxes de policia em
van bloquejar l'eixida,
van bloquejar l'eixida,
00:44
and an officer approached me from behind.
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i un policia es va apropar per darrere.
00:46
He told me to stop, take my backpack off
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Em va dir que parara,
que em llevara la motxilla,
que em llevara la motxilla,
00:49
and put my hands on the police car
parked next to us.
parked next to us.
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i que posara les mans
sobre el cotxe de policia.
sobre el cotxe de policia.
00:52
About a dozen officers
then gathered near us.
then gathered near us.
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Al moment van vindre
una dotzena de policies.
una dotzena de policies.
Tots portaven pistola,
00:55
All of them had handguns,
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alguns tenien rifles d'assalt.
00:57
some had assault rifles.
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00:58
They rifled through my backpack.
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Em van regirar la motxilla.
01:00
They patted me down.
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Em van escorcollar.
01:01
They took pictures of me
spread on the police car,
spread on the police car,
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Em van fer fotos
estès sobre el cotxe,
estès sobre el cotxe,
01:04
and they laughed.
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mentre reien.
01:05
And as all this was happening --
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I mentre açò passava,
01:06
as I was on the police car trying
to ignore the shaking in my legs,
to ignore the shaking in my legs,
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assegut dins del cotxe
ignorant la tremolor de cames,
ignorant la tremolor de cames,
intentant pensar amb claredat
sobre el que havia de fer,
sobre el que havia de fer,
01:10
trying to think clearly
about what I should do --
about what I should do --
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01:12
something stuck out to me as odd.
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alguna cosa em va parèixer estranya.
01:14
When I look at myself in this photo,
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Quan em mire en esta foto,
01:16
if I were to describe myself,
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si m'hagués de descriure,
01:18
I think I'd say something like,
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crec que diria alguna cosa com,
01:20
"19-year-old Indian male,
bright T-shirt, wearing glasses."
bright T-shirt, wearing glasses."
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"Xic de 19 anys d'origen hindú,
samarreta llampant, duu ulleres."
samarreta llampant, duu ulleres."
Però la policia no va incloure
cap d'aquests detalls.
cap d'aquests detalls.
01:25
But they weren't including
any of these details.
any of these details.
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01:27
Into their police radios
as they described me,
as they described me,
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Em descrivien per la ràdio així:
01:30
they kept saying, "Middle Eastern
male with a backpack.
male with a backpack.
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"Home de l'Orient Mitjà
amb una motxilla.
amb una motxilla.
01:32
Middle Eastern male with a backpack."
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Home de l'Orient Mitjà
amb una motxilla."
amb una motxilla."
01:34
And this description carried on
into their police reports.
into their police reports.
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I esta és la descripció
que van posar als informes.
que van posar als informes.
01:38
I never expected to be described
by my own government in these terms:
by my own government in these terms:
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Mai m'havera imaginat que
el meu govern em descrigués així:
el meu govern em descrigués així:
01:43
"lurking,"
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"A l'aguait,"
01:45
"nefarious,"
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"pervers,"
01:47
"terrorist."
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"terrorista."
01:49
And the detention dragged on like this.
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I la detenció va continuar d'esta forma.
01:50
They sent dogs trained to smell explosives
to sweep the area I'd been in.
to sweep the area I'd been in.
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Van portar gossos entrenats
per detectar explosius.
per detectar explosius.
Van cridar el govern federal per vore
si estava en alguna llista de buscats.
si estava en alguna llista de buscats.
01:54
They called the federal government
to see if I was on any watch lists.
to see if I was on any watch lists.
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01:58
They sent a couple of detectives
to cross-examine me on why,
to cross-examine me on why,
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Van enviar detectius per
interrogar-me sobre per què,
interrogar-me sobre per què,
02:01
if I claimed I had nothing to hide,
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si mantenia que no
amagava res,
amagava res,
02:03
I wouldn't consent to a search of my car.
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no consentia un registre
del meu cotxe.
del meu cotxe.
I m'adonava que
no estaven contents amb mi,
no estaven contents amb mi,
02:05
And I could see
they weren't happy with me,
they weren't happy with me,
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02:07
but I felt I had no way of knowing
what they'd want to do next.
what they'd want to do next.
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però no tenia ni idea
del que em farien a continuació.
del que em farien a continuació.
02:10
At one point, the officer
who patted me down
who patted me down
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En un moment donat, l'oficial
que em va registrar
que em va registrar
02:13
scanned the side of the police station
to see where the security camera was
to see where the security camera was
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va buscar les càmeres
de seguretat arreu de l'estació,
de seguretat arreu de l'estació,
02:17
to see how much of this
was being recorded.
was being recorded.
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per veure el que s'estava gravant.
02:19
And when he did that,
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I quan el vaig veure fer això,
02:21
it really sank in how completely
I was at their mercy.
I was at their mercy.
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em vaig adonar
que tenien poder sobre mi.
que tenien poder sobre mi.
02:24
I think we're all normalized
from a young age
from a young age
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Crec que ben prompte
normalitzem
normalitzem
02:27
to the idea of police officers
and arrests and handcuffs,
and arrests and handcuffs,
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la idea de la policia
i les detencions i les manilles,
i les detencions i les manilles,
02:30
so it's easy to forget how demeaning
and coercive a thing it is
and coercive a thing it is
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i és fàcil oblidar la degradació
que s'hi amaga darrere
que s'hi amaga darrere
02:34
to seize control over
another person's body.
another person's body.
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del fet de prendre el control
del cos d'una altra persona.
del cos d'una altra persona.
02:37
I know it sounds like
the point of my story
the point of my story
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Sé que pensareu que
el que vull contar-vos
el que vull contar-vos
02:39
is how badly treated I was
because of my race --
because of my race --
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és el maltractament que
vaig rebre per la meua raça --
vaig rebre per la meua raça --
02:42
and yes, I don't think I would've been
detained if I were white.
detained if I were white.
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i sí, dubte que m'haguessen
detingut si fos blanc.
detingut si fos blanc.
02:45
But actually, what I have in mind
today is something else.
today is something else.
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Però el que he vingut
a contar és una altra cosa.
a contar és una altra cosa.
02:48
What I have in mind is how
much worse things might've been
much worse things might've been
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La qüestió és que
tot hauria acabat pitjor
tot hauria acabat pitjor
de no haver tingut diners.
02:50
if I weren't affluent.
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02:52
I mean, they thought I might be trying
to plant an explosive,
to plant an explosive,
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Pensaven que intentava posar una bomba,
02:55
and they investigated that possibility
for an hour and a half,
for an hour and a half,
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i van investigar-ne la possibilitat
durant hora i mitja,
durant hora i mitja,
02:58
but I was never put in handcuffs,
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però no em van emmanillar,
03:00
I was never taken to a jail cell.
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ni em van tancar en una cel·la.
03:02
I think if I were from one of Washington
DC's poor communities of color,
DC's poor communities of color,
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Si jo fora d'una comunitat
pobra i de color de Washington
pobra i de color de Washington
i pensaren que posava
en perill la vida dels oficials,
en perill la vida dels oficials,
03:06
and they thought I was
endangering officers' lives,
endangering officers' lives,
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les coses haurien anat
d'una altra manera.
d'una altra manera.
03:08
things might've ended differently.
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03:10
And in fact, in our system, I think
it's better to be an affluent person
it's better to be an affluent person
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De fet, al nostre sistema
és millor tindre recursos
és millor tindre recursos
i que et culpen d'intentar
explotar la comissaria,
explotar la comissaria,
03:13
suspected of trying
to blow up a police station
to blow up a police station
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03:15
than it is to be a poor person
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que ser una persona pobra
03:17
who's suspected of much,
much less than this.
much less than this.
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amb càrrecs molt inferiors a aquest.
03:20
I want to give you an example
from my current work.
from my current work.
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Vull donar-vos un exemple
de la meva feina actual.
de la meva feina actual.
03:23
Right now, I'm working
at a civil rights organization in DC,
at a civil rights organization in DC,
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Treballe en una organització
de drets civils a DC,
de drets civils a DC,
03:26
called Equal Justice Under Law.
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que es diu
Justícia Igualitària dins la Llei.
Justícia Igualitària dins la Llei.
03:28
Let me start by asking you all a question.
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Deixeu que comence
fent-vos una pregunta.
fent-vos una pregunta.
03:31
How many of you have ever gotten
a parking ticket in your life?
a parking ticket in your life?
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Quants de vosaltres heu
rebut una multa de tràfic?
rebut una multa de tràfic?
03:34
Raise your hand.
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Alceu les mans.
03:36
Yeah. So have I.
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Sí. Jo també.
03:38
And when I had to pay it,
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I quan anava a pagar-la,
03:39
it felt annoying and it felt bad,
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em feia ràbia i em sentia malament,
03:41
but I paid it and I moved on.
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però la vaig pagar i llestos.
03:43
I'm guessing most of you
have paid your tickets as well.
have paid your tickets as well.
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Supose que la majoria
també les heu pagat.
també les heu pagat.
03:46
But what would happen if you
couldn't afford the amount on the ticket
couldn't afford the amount on the ticket
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Però què passaria si
no tinguereu diners
no tinguereu diners
03:50
and your family doesn't have
the money either, what happens then?
the money either, what happens then?
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i la vostra família tampoc,
què passaria?
què passaria?
03:54
Well, one thing that's not supposed
to happen under the law is,
to happen under the law is,
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Una cosa que no hauria
de permetre la llei és
de permetre la llei és
03:57
you're not supposed to be
arrested and jailed
arrested and jailed
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ser detingut i encarcerat
03:59
simply because you can't afford to pay.
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només per no poder
pagar una multa.
pagar una multa.
04:01
That's illegal under federal law.
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La llei federal diu
que això és il·legal.
que això és il·legal.
04:03
But that's what local governments
across the country are doing
across the country are doing
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Però aixó és
el que els governs locals estan fent
el que els governs locals estan fent
a la gent sense recursos.
04:06
to people who are poor.
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04:07
And so many of our lawsuits
at Equal Justice Under Law
at Equal Justice Under Law
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I moltes de les causes
que portem a Justicia Igualitària
que portem a Justicia Igualitària
04:10
target these modern-day debtors' prisons.
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vigilen estes presons
de deutors modernes.
de deutors modernes.
04:13
One of our cases is against
Ferguson, Missouri.
Ferguson, Missouri.
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Un dels nostres casos és
contra Ferguson a Missouri.
contra Ferguson a Missouri.
04:16
And I know when I say Ferguson,
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I sé que quan dic Ferguson,
04:18
many of you will think of police violence.
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molts pensareu en violència policial.
04:20
But today I want to talk
about a different aspect
about a different aspect
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Però hui vinc a parlar
d'un aspecte diferent
d'un aspecte diferent
04:22
of the relationship between
their police force and their citizens.
their police force and their citizens.
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de la relació entre el cos policial
i els ciutadans.
i els ciutadans.
04:26
Ferguson was issuing an average
of over two arrest warrants,
of over two arrest warrants,
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Ferguson signava més de dues
ordres d'arrestament
ordres d'arrestament
04:29
per person, per year,
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per persona a l'any,
04:31
mostly for unpaid debt to the courts.
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la majoria per deutes judicials.
04:34
When I imagine what that would feel like
if, every time I left my house,
if, every time I left my house,
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Quan imagine com seria sentir
que cada volta que isca de casa,
que cada volta que isca de casa,
04:39
there was a chance a police officer
would run my license plate,
would run my license plate,
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és possible que un oficial
comprovara la meua matrícula,
comprovara la meua matrícula,
04:42
see a warrant for unpaid debt,
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i en veure un deute judicial,
04:43
seize my body they way the did in DC
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m'enxampara com van fer a DC,
04:46
and then take me to a jail cell,
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i em clavaren a la cel·la,
04:47
I feel a little sick.
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em pose malalt.
04:50
I've met many of the people in Ferguson
who have experienced this,
who have experienced this,
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He conegut més persones
a Ferguson que han viscut açò,
a Ferguson que han viscut açò,
04:54
and I've heard some of their stories.
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i he escoltat les seues històries.
04:55
In Ferguson's jail,
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A la presó de Ferguson,
04:57
in each small cell,
there's a bunk bed and a toilet,
there's a bunk bed and a toilet,
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en cada cel·la hi ha
una llitera i un vàter,
una llitera i un vàter,
05:00
but they'd pack four people
into each cell.
into each cell.
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però hi posen quatre persones dins.
05:02
So there'd be two people on the bunks
and two people on the floor,
and two people on the floor,
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De forma que dos dormen a la llitera
i dos a terra,
i dos a terra,
05:05
one with nowhere to go except
right next to the filthy toilet,
right next to the filthy toilet,
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i una ha de posar-se
al costat del vàter,
al costat del vàter,
que ningú ha netejat mai.
05:08
which was never cleaned.
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05:09
In fact, the whole cell was never cleaned,
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De fet, la cel·la sencera
mai l'han netejat,
mai l'han netejat,
05:12
so the floor and the walls were lined
with blood and mucus.
with blood and mucus.
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així que el sòl i les parets
són plenes de sang i mocs.
són plenes de sang i mocs.
05:16
No water to drink,
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No hi ha aigua
05:17
except coming out of a spigot
connected to the toilet.
connected to the toilet.
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excepte la de l'aixeta
connectada al vàter.
connectada al vàter.
05:19
The water looked and tasted dirty,
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L'aigua era bruta i tenia mal gust,
05:21
there was never enough food,
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mai hi havia prou menjar,
05:23
never any showers,
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no et pots dutxar,
05:24
women menstruating
without any hygiene products,
without any hygiene products,
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les dones menstruaven
sense cap producte d'higiene,
sense cap producte d'higiene,
no hi havia cap mena
d'atenció mèdica.
d'atenció mèdica.
05:27
no medical attention whatsoever.
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05:29
When I asked a woman
about medical attention,
about medical attention,
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Quan li vaig preguntar
a una dona sobre açò,
a una dona sobre açò,
05:31
she laughed, and she said, "Oh, no, no.
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es va riure i em va dir,
"Ai, no, no,
"Ai, no, no,
05:34
The only attention you get
from the guards in there is sexual."
from the guards in there is sexual."
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L'única atenció que reps
dels guàrdies aquí és sexual."
dels guàrdies aquí és sexual."
05:37
So, they'd take the debtors
to this place and they'd say,
to this place and they'd say,
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Així que ficaven ací
als deutors i els deien,
als deutors i els deien,
05:40
"We're not letting you leave
until you make a payment on your debt."
until you make a payment on your debt."
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"No eixireu fins que no
pagueu el deute."
pagueu el deute."
05:44
And if you could -- if you
could call a family member
could call a family member
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I si podies trucar un familiar
05:46
who could somehow come up with some money,
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que puguera portar-te els diners,
05:48
then maybe you were out.
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potser et deixaven eixir.
05:50
If it was enough money, you were out.
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Si et portaven prou diners
et deixaven eixir.
et deixaven eixir.
05:52
But if it wasn't, you'd stay there
for days or weeks,
for days or weeks,
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Però si no, t'hi quedaves
dies o setmanes,
dies o setmanes,
05:55
and every day the guards
would come down to the cells
would come down to the cells
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i cada dia els guàrdies
baixaven a les cel·les
baixaven a les cel·les
05:58
and haggle with the debtors
about the price of release that day.
about the price of release that day.
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i regatejaven amb els deutors
el preu d'eixida d'aquell dia.
el preu d'eixida d'aquell dia.
06:02
You'd stay until, at some point,
the jail would be booked to capacity,
the jail would be booked to capacity,
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Et quedaves fins que
la presó s'omplia,
la presó s'omplia,
06:06
and they'd want to book someone new in.
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i volien posar-n'hi un altre.
06:08
And at that point, they'd think,
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1561
Arribats a este punt pensaven,
06:10
"OK, it's unlikely this person
can come up with the money,
can come up with the money,
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2755
"No crec que esta persona
reuneixi els diners,
reuneixi els diners,
06:13
it's more likely this new person will."
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potser la nova sí que en tindrà."
06:14
You're out, they're in,
and the machine kept moving like that.
and the machine kept moving like that.
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Tu ixes, l'altre entra,
i la màquina continua movent-se.
i la màquina continua movent-se.
06:17
I met a man who,
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Vaig conèixer un home
06:20
nine years ago, was arrested
for panhandling in a Walgreens.
for panhandling in a Walgreens.
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4267
que va ser detingut feia nou anys
per pidolar en un Walgreens.
per pidolar en un Walgreens.
06:24
He couldn't afford his fines
and his court fees from that case.
and his court fees from that case.
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No podia pagar les multes
i els honoraris del seu cas.
i els honoraris del seu cas.
06:28
When he was young
he survived a house fire,
he survived a house fire,
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De jove va sobreviure un incendi
06:31
only because he jumped out
of the third-story window to escape.
of the third-story window to escape.
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2973
perquè va saltar
des de la finestra d'un tercer pis.
des de la finestra d'un tercer pis.
06:34
But that fall left him
with damage to his brain
with damage to his brain
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Però en caure
es va fer mal al cervell
es va fer mal al cervell
06:36
and several parts of this body,
including his leg.
including his leg.
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2435
i a diverses parts del cos,
incloent-hi la cama.
incloent-hi la cama.
06:39
So he can't work,
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1159
No pot treballar,
06:40
and he relies on social security
payments to survive.
payments to survive.
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i sobreviu gràcies
a les ajudes socials.
a les ajudes socials.
06:42
When I met him in his apartment,
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Quan vaig anar al seu pis,
06:44
he had nothing of value there --
not even food in his fridge.
not even food in his fridge.
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no hi havia res de valor,
ni tan sols menjar a la nevera.
ni tan sols menjar a la nevera.
06:47
He's chronically hungry.
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1165
És un famolenc crònic.
06:48
He had nothing of value in his apartment
except a small piece of cardboard
except a small piece of cardboard
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No hi havia res de valor
llevat d'un tros de cartró
llevat d'un tros de cartró
06:52
on which he'd written
the names of his children.
the names of his children.
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on havia escrit
els noms dels seus fills.
els noms dels seus fills.
06:54
He cherished this a lot.
He was happy to show it to me.
He was happy to show it to me.
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Açò s'ho estimava molt.
Me'l va ensenyar molt content.
Me'l va ensenyar molt content.
06:56
But he can't pay his fines and fees
because he has nothing to give.
because he has nothing to give.
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Però no pot pagar les multes
i les quotes perquè no té res.
i les quotes perquè no té res.
07:00
In the last nine years,
he's been arrested 13 times,
he's been arrested 13 times,
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3366
En els últims nou anys,
l'han detingut 13 vegades,
l'han detingut 13 vegades,
07:03
and jailed for a total of 130 days
on that panhandling case.
on that panhandling case.
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i ha estat empresonat
130 dies per pidolar.
130 dies per pidolar.
07:08
One of those stretches lasted 45 days.
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Una vegada 45 dies seguits.
07:11
Just imagine spending from right now
until sometime in June
until sometime in June
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Imagineu passar des
d'ara mateix fins a juny
d'ara mateix fins a juny
07:16
in the place that I described to you
a few moments ago.
a few moments ago.
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en aquell lloc que
vos he descrit abans.
vos he descrit abans.
07:20
He told me about all the suicide attempts
he's seen in Ferguson's jail;
he's seen in Ferguson's jail;
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Em va contar els intents
de suïcidi que ha vist a la presó;
de suïcidi que ha vist a la presó;
aquella volta que un home
va aconseguir penjar-se
va aconseguir penjar-se
07:24
about the time a man found
a way to hang himself
a way to hang himself
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on no el pogueren
salvar els altres presos,
salvar els altres presos,
07:27
out of reach of the other inmates,
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07:28
so all they could do
was yell and yell and yell,
was yell and yell and yell,
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3162
i l'única cosa que podien
fer era cridar i cridar
fer era cridar i cridar
intentant cridar l'atenció d'un guàrdia
07:31
trying to get the guards' attention
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1740
07:33
so they could come down and cut him down.
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441652
1993
perquè vinguera a baixar-lo.
07:35
And he told me that it took the guards
over five minutes to respond,
over five minutes to respond,
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Em va contar que els guàrdies
tardaren més de cinc minuts en respondre,
tardaren més de cinc minuts en respondre,
07:39
and when they came,
the man was unconscious.
the man was unconscious.
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i quan van arribar,
l'home estava inconscient.
l'home estava inconscient.
07:41
So they called the paramedics
and the paramedics went to the cell.
and the paramedics went to the cell.
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Van cridar els paramèdics
i estos van anar a la cel·la.
i estos van anar a la cel·la.
07:44
They said, "He'll be OK,"
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1332
Van dir que es posaria bé,
07:45
so they just left him there on the floor.
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2204
el van deixar allí a terra i ja està.
07:48
I heard many stories like this
and they shouldn't have surprised me,
and they shouldn't have surprised me,
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Vaig sentir moltes històries
com esta i no m'hauria de sorprendre,
com esta i no m'hauria de sorprendre,
07:51
because suicide is the single leading
cause of death in our local jails.
cause of death in our local jails.
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perquè el suïcidi és la principal
causa de mort a les presons locals.
causa de mort a les presons locals.
07:55
This is related to the lack
of mental health care in our jails.
of mental health care in our jails.
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Açò és per causa de la manca
d'atenció psicològica a les presons.
d'atenció psicològica a les presons.
07:58
I met a woman, single mother of three,
making seven dollars an hour.
making seven dollars an hour.
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3920
Vaig conèixer una mare de tres xiquets
que guanyava set dòlars l'hora.
que guanyava set dòlars l'hora.
08:02
She relies on food stamps
to feed herself and her children.
to feed herself and her children.
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Ella i els seus fills
s'alimenten gràcies a cupons.
s'alimenten gràcies a cupons.
08:06
About a decade ago,
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1544
Fa més o menys una dècada,
08:07
she got a couple of traffic tickets
and a minor theft charge,
and a minor theft charge,
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3765
li van posar un parell de multes
de tràfic i un càrrec menor de robatori,
de tràfic i un càrrec menor de robatori,
08:11
and she can't afford her fines
and fees on those cases.
and fees on those cases.
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2768
i no pot pagar les multes
i les quotes d'eixos casos.
i les quotes d'eixos casos.
08:14
Since then, she's been jailed
about 10 times on those cases,
about 10 times on those cases,
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3500
Ja ha passat unes deu
voltes per la presó per allò,
voltes per la presó per allò,
però pateix d'esquizofrènia
i de trastorn bipolar,
i de trastorn bipolar,
08:18
but she has schizophrenia
and bipolar disorder,
and bipolar disorder,
185
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2283
08:20
and she needs medication every day.
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2151
i necessita medicació diària.
08:22
She doesn't have access
to those medications in Ferguson's jail,
to those medications in Ferguson's jail,
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490732
3038
A la presó no té accés a la medicació,
08:25
because no one has access
to their medications.
to their medications.
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2216
ni ella ni ningú.
08:28
She told me about what it was like
to spend two weeks in a cage,
to spend two weeks in a cage,
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4026
Em va contar el que és passar
dues setmanes dins d'una gàbia,
dues setmanes dins d'una gàbia,
08:32
hallucinating people and shadows
and hearing voices,
and hearing voices,
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500084
3553
tenint al·lucinacions
i veient ombres i sentint veus,
i veient ombres i sentint veus,
08:35
begging for the medication
that would make it all stop,
that would make it all stop,
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2594
mentre demanava la
medicació per deixar de patir,
medicació per deixar de patir,
08:38
only to be ignored.
192
506279
1370
i que no li feren ni cas.
Aquest cas no és cap anomalia:
08:40
And this isn't anomalous, either:
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508370
1846
trenta per cent de
les dones encarcerades
les dones encarcerades
08:42
thirty percent of women in our local jails
have serious mental health needs
have serious mental health needs
194
510240
3525
necessiten ajuda psicològica,
08:45
just like hers,
195
513789
1156
08:46
but only one in six receives
any mental health care while in jail.
any mental health care while in jail.
196
514969
4517
però només una de sis
rep cap ajuda mentre està tancada.
rep cap ajuda mentre està tancada.
08:51
And so, I heard all these stories
about this grotesque dungeon
about this grotesque dungeon
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519510
3825
Vaig sentir tota mena d'històries
sobre estes masmorres grotesques
sobre estes masmorres grotesques
08:55
that Ferguson was operating
for its debtors,
for its debtors,
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523359
2198
que Ferguson manté
per als seus deutors,
per als seus deutors,
08:57
and when it came time
for me to actually see it
for me to actually see it
199
525581
2293
i quan em va arribar
el torn de veure-les
el torn de veure-les
08:59
and to go visit Ferguson's jail,
200
527898
1954
i de visitar la presó de Ferguson,
09:01
I'm not sure what I was expecting to see,
201
529876
2040
no tinc clar què esperava veure,
09:03
but I wasn't expecting this.
202
531940
1954
però no esperava açò.
09:06
It's an ordinary government building.
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1839
Un edifici del govern normal.
09:08
It could be a post office or a school.
204
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2456
Podria ser una oficina de correus
o una escola,
o una escola,
09:10
It reminded me that these illegal
extortion schemes
extortion schemes
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538838
3692
Em vaig adonar que
aquestes extorsions il·legals
aquestes extorsions il·legals
09:14
aren't being run somewhere in the shadows,
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2088
no es duen a terme a l'ombra,
09:16
they're being run out in the open
by our public officials.
by our public officials.
207
544666
2716
sinó en plena llum del dia
i per funcionaris públics.
i per funcionaris públics.
09:19
They're a matter of public policy.
208
547406
1700
Són una qüestió de política pública.
09:21
And this reminded me
that poverty jailing in general,
that poverty jailing in general,
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2839
I vaig comprendre que
l'empresonament de pobres,
l'empresonament de pobres,
09:23
even outside the debtors' prison context,
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551993
2208
encara que siga en altres contextos,
09:26
plays a very visible and central role
in our justice system.
in our justice system.
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554225
2921
juga un paper visible i central
en el nostre sistema judicial.
en el nostre sistema judicial.
Estic parlant del nostre
sistema de fiança.
sistema de fiança.
09:29
What I have in mind is our policy of bail.
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2212
09:32
In our system, whether
you're detained or free,
you're detained or free,
213
560054
2552
En el nostre sistema,
ja estigues detingut o no,
ja estigues detingut o no,
09:34
pending trial is not a matter
of how dangerous you are
of how dangerous you are
214
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3130
anar a judici no és qüestió
del perill que comportes
del perill que comportes
09:37
or how much of a flight risk you pose.
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2248
o les possibilitats de fuga.
09:40
It's a matter of whether you can afford
to post your bail amount.
to post your bail amount.
216
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3086
És qüestió de si pots
permetre't pagar la fiança.
permetre't pagar la fiança.
09:43
So Bill Cosby, whose bail
was set at a million dollars,
was set at a million dollars,
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2712
Bill Cosby, amb una
fiança d'un mil·lió de dòlars,
fiança d'un mil·lió de dòlars,
09:45
immediately writes the check,
and doesn't spend a second in a jail cell.
and doesn't spend a second in a jail cell.
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3460
firma el taló i no passa
ni un segon en una cel·la.
ni un segon en una cel·la.
Sandra Bland,
que va morir a la presó,
que va morir a la presó,
09:49
But Sandra Bland, who died in jail,
219
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1732
09:51
was only there because her family
was unable to come up with 500 dollars.
was unable to come up with 500 dollars.
220
579142
3998
estava allí perquè la seua familia
no podia pagar 500 dòlars.
no podia pagar 500 dòlars.
09:55
In fact, there are half a million
Sandra Blands across the country --
Sandra Blands across the country --
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3387
Hi ha mig mil·lió de
dones com ella al país --
dones com ella al país --
09:58
500,000 people who are in jail right now,
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2266
500.000 persones que estan empresonades,
10:00
only because they can't afford
their bail amount.
their bail amount.
223
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2661
només perquè no poden pagar la fiança.
10:03
We're told that our jails
are places for criminals,
are places for criminals,
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3057
Se suposa que les presons
són per als criminals,
són per als criminals,
10:06
but statistically that's not the case:
225
594631
2013
però la estadística diu una altra cosa:
10:08
three out of every five people
in jail right now are there pretrial.
in jail right now are there pretrial.
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4301
tres de cada cinc persones
encarcerades estàn en presó preventiva.
encarcerades estàn en presó preventiva.
10:12
They haven't been convicted of any crime;
227
600993
2182
No els han condemnat per cap crim;
10:15
they haven't pled guilty to any offense.
228
603199
2511
no han estat declarats culpables
per cap delicte.
per cap delicte.
10:18
Right here in San Francisco,
229
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1344
Ací a San Francisco,
10:19
85 percent of the inmates
in our jail in San Francisco
in our jail in San Francisco
230
607719
3390
el 85 per cent dels presos
són detinguts en presó preventiva.
10:23
are pretrial detainees.
231
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1744
10:24
This means San Francisco is spending
something like 80 million dollars
something like 80 million dollars
232
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3385
Això significa que la ciutat
gasta al voltant de 80 milions
gasta al voltant de 80 milions
10:28
every year
233
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1170
cada any
10:29
to fund pretrial detention.
234
617504
1716
per finançar la presó preventiva.
10:33
Many of these people who are in jail
only because they can't post bail
only because they can't post bail
235
621240
4419
Molts d'aquests encarcerats
que no poden pagar la fiança
que no poden pagar la fiança
10:37
are facing allegations so minor
236
625683
2246
s'enfronten a càrrecs tan lleus
10:39
that the amount of time it would take
for them to sit waiting for trial
for them to sit waiting for trial
237
627953
3383
que el termini que esperaran pel judici
10:43
is longer than the sentence
they would receive if convicted,
they would receive if convicted,
238
631360
3052
és més llarg que les sentències
que rebrien de ser condemnats,
que rebrien de ser condemnats,
10:46
which means they're guaranteed
to get out faster
to get out faster
239
634436
2268
això vol dir que surten abans
10:48
if they just plead guilty.
240
636728
1284
si es declaren culpables.
10:50
So now the choice is:
241
638036
1559
Així que l'elecció és la següent:
10:51
Should I stay here in this horrible place,
242
639619
2873
Em quede en aquest lloc horrible,
10:54
away from my family and my dependents,
243
642516
2110
lluny de la família i
els que depenen de mi,
els que depenen de mi,
10:56
almost guaranteed to lose my job,
244
644650
2477
arriscant-me a perdre la meva feina,
i he de rebatre els càrrecs?
10:59
and then fight the charges?
245
647151
1621
11:00
Or should I just plead guilty to whatever
the prosecutor wants and get out?
the prosecutor wants and get out?
246
648796
3569
O em declare culpable del que
siga que vulga l'acusació?
siga que vulga l'acusació?
En aquest moment encara
no són criminals declarats.
no són criminals declarats.
11:04
And at this point, they're pretrial
detainees, not criminals.
detainees, not criminals.
247
652389
2935
Però una vegada confessen,
els direm criminals,
els direm criminals,
11:07
But once they take that plea deal,
we'll call them criminals,
we'll call them criminals,
248
655348
2892
encara que algú amb recursos
mai s'haguera enfrentat a açò,
mai s'haguera enfrentat a açò,
11:10
even though an affluent person
would never have been in this situation,
would never have been in this situation,
249
658264
3380
perquè haguera pagat
la fiança i fi de la història.
la fiança i fi de la història.
11:13
because an affluent person
would have simply been bailed out.
would have simply been bailed out.
250
661668
2874
11:16
At this point you might be wondering,
251
664566
2090
Ara mateix estareu pensant,
11:18
"This guy's in the inspiration section,
what is he doing --
what is he doing --
252
666680
2794
"Però açò no estava
a la secció d'inspiració?"
a la secció d'inspiració?"
11:21
(Laughter)
253
669498
1160
(Riures)
11:22
"This is extremely depressing.
I want my money back."
I want my money back."
254
670682
2806
"Què depriment.
Que em tornen els diners."
Que em tornen els diners."
11:25
(Laughter)
255
673512
1206
(Riures)
11:26
But in actuality,
256
674742
2399
En realitat,
11:29
I find talking about jailing much less
depressing than the alternative,
depressing than the alternative,
257
677165
4390
trobe que parlar d'aquest tema
és menys depriment que no fer-ho,
és menys depriment que no fer-ho,
11:33
because I think if we don't talk
about these issues
about these issues
258
681579
2436
perquè crec que si no
parlem d'aquestos temes
parlem d'aquestos temes
11:36
and collectively change
how we think about jailing,
how we think about jailing,
259
684039
2401
i canviem junts la forma
de pensar sobre açò,
de pensar sobre açò,
11:38
at the end of all of our lives,
260
686464
1504
al final de les nostres vides,
11:39
we'll still have jails full of poor people
who don't belong there.
who don't belong there.
261
687992
3131
les presons encara
estaran plenes d'innocents.
estaran plenes d'innocents.
Açò sí que em resulta depriment.
11:43
That really is depressing to me.
262
691147
1554
11:44
But what's exciting to me is the thought
that these stories can move us
that these stories can move us
263
692725
3424
Però el que m'inspira
és que estes històries
és que estes històries
ens animen a veure
la presó de forma diferent.
la presó de forma diferent.
11:48
to think about jailing in different terms.
264
696173
2043
11:50
Not in sterile policy terms
like "mass incarceration,"
like "mass incarceration,"
265
698240
3371
No en termes estèrils
com "encarcerament massiu"
com "encarcerament massiu"
11:53
or "sentencing of nonviolent offenders,"
266
701635
1986
o "sentències a criminals
no violents,"
no violents,"
11:55
but in human terms.
267
703645
1166
sinó en termes humans.
11:56
When we put a human being in a cage
for days or weeks or months
for days or weeks or months
268
704835
4585
Quan engabiem un ésser humà
durant dies o setmanes
durant dies o setmanes
12:01
or even years,
269
709444
1444
mesos o anys,
12:02
what are we doing
to that person's mind and body?
to that person's mind and body?
270
710912
2349
què estem fent-li
a nivell mental i físic?
a nivell mental i físic?
12:05
Under what conditions
are we really willing to do that?
are we really willing to do that?
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En quines condicions
volem fer-ho?
volem fer-ho?
12:08
And so if starting with a few
hundred of us in this room,
hundred of us in this room,
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Si comencem amb
uns centenars dels que estem ací,
uns centenars dels que estem ací,
12:11
we can commit to thinking about
jailing in this different light,
jailing in this different light,
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podem començar a veure
aquest tema de forma diferent,
aquest tema de forma diferent,
12:14
then we can undo that normalization
I was referring to earlier.
I was referring to earlier.
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i aconseguir desfer
la normalització.
la normalització.
12:17
If I leave you with anything today,
I hope it's with the thought
I hope it's with the thought
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Si us emporteu alguna cosa hui,
espere que siga la idea
espere que siga la idea
12:21
that if we want anything
to fundamentally change --
to fundamentally change --
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que si volem que
alguna cosa canvie de veres --
alguna cosa canvie de veres --
12:23
not just to reform our policies
on bail and fines and fees --
on bail and fines and fees --
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que no siga sols reformar
les polítiques de les fiances --
les polítiques de les fiances --
12:26
but also to make sure that whatever
new policies replace those
new policies replace those
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i assegurar-nos que
les polítiques noves
les polítiques noves
12:29
don't punish the poor and the marginalized
in their own new way.
in their own new way.
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no castiguen els pobres
i els marginats de formes noves.
i els marginats de formes noves.
12:32
If we want that kind of change,
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Si volem aquest tipus de canvi,
12:34
then this shift in thinking
is required of each of us.
is required of each of us.
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és necessari
que canviem el xip.
que canviem el xip.
12:37
Thank you.
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Gràcies.
12:38
(Applause)
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(Aplaudiments)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Salil Dudani - Legal activistSalil Dudani has experienced the legal system from two vantage points: being detained by D.C. police on suspicion of "terrorist activity," and working as an investigator with civil rights lawyers challenging poverty-jailing.
Why you should listen
As a John Gardner Public Service fellow, Salil Dudani worked on civil rights cases challenging debtors' prisons and money bail. These included cases in Ferguson, Missouri, where people who could not pay fines and court fees were routinely jailed; Rutherford County, Tennessee, where a private probation company would extort impoverished probationers with the threat of jail; and San Francisco and Houston, where thousands of people are in jail cells every night because they cannot afford to post bail. Before this work, Salil was a defense investigator at the Public Defender Service in Washington, D.C. He is now a student at Yale Law School.
Salil Dudani | Speaker | TED.com