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Julia Shaw: A memory scientist's advice on reporting harassment and discrimination
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How do you turn a memory, especially one of a traumatic event, into hard evidence of a crime? Julia Shaw is working on this challenge, combining tools from memory science and artificial intelligence to change how we report workplace harassment and bias. She shares three lessons to apply if you've been harassed or discriminated against -- and introduces Spot: a free, anonymous, online reporting tool that helps empower victims.
Julia Shaw - Psychological scientist
Julia Shaw is best known for her work in the areas of memory and criminal psychology. Full bio
Julia Shaw is best known for her work in the areas of memory and criminal psychology. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
Me Too and Time's Up have highlighted
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that harassment and discrimination
are a shockingly common part
are a shockingly common part
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of many people's lived reality,
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and that this reality
extends into the workplace.
extends into the workplace.
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Whether in tech or finance,
sports or the service industry,
sports or the service industry,
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every day we seem to hear another story
about an abuse of power
about an abuse of power
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or another grossly inappropriate
workplace behavior.
workplace behavior.
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People are furious.
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They're taking to Twitter and social media
to voice that this must change.
to voice that this must change.
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But it's time to move beyond the hashtag.
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It's time for us to report
harassment and discrimination
harassment and discrimination
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to those who can fix this mess.
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And it's time for us
to talk about harassment
to talk about harassment
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in a more inclusive way:
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not just about sexual harassment,
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but to encourage people to come forward
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about harassment and discrimination
based on other characteristics
based on other characteristics
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such as age, disability or ethnicity.
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Because only together can we fix
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the underlying causes
and consequences of harassment.
and consequences of harassment.
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You see, most of us will,
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at some point in our lives,
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experience workplace
harassment or discrimination.
harassment or discrimination.
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Research shows that particularly
women, people of color
women, people of color
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and people who openly identify as LGBTQI
are likely to be targeted,
are likely to be targeted,
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and for some people, this is a pervasive
and persistent part of their reality.
and persistent part of their reality.
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And for most of these people --
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98 percent according to some studies --
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most of these people will never
speak up and tell their employer.
speak up and tell their employer.
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Too often, harassment and discrimination
is a lonely and isolating experience,
is a lonely and isolating experience,
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but we need to help people
out from under their desks.
out from under their desks.
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We need to empower people to have a voice.
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The reasonable first question
that everybody asks
that everybody asks
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once they've been harassed
is "What do I do now?"
is "What do I do now?"
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And this is what I want to help you with.
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Navigating the barriers to reporting
can be absolutely dizzying.
can be absolutely dizzying.
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How can we speak up in a society
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that too often discredits
or diminishes our experiences?
or diminishes our experiences?
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How can we speak up in a society
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that is likely to be
retributive towards us?
retributive towards us?
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How can we deal with the silencing
that goes on all around us?
that goes on all around us?
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Making matters worse,
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often our memories are the only
evidence we have of what happened.
evidence we have of what happened.
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Now, here's where I can come in.
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I'm a memory scientist,
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and I specialize in how we remember
important emotional events.
important emotional events.
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I've particularly focused
on how the memory interview process
on how the memory interview process
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can severely impact the evidentiary
quality of reports that we produce.
quality of reports that we produce.
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A bad interview can lead you
to forget details or misremember them
to forget details or misremember them
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while a good interview can forever
change your life for the better.
change your life for the better.
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After looking at lab reports
and working,
and working,
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studying this issue both in the courtroom
and in research settings,
and in research settings,
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I've dissected all the different things
that can go wrong with our memories
that can go wrong with our memories
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that can really threaten your case.
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And now I'm turning my attention
to helping people tackle
to helping people tackle
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recording and reporting of workplace
harassment and discrimination.
harassment and discrimination.
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There's three things that I've learned
from my research on this
from my research on this
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that you can immediately apply
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if you've been harassed
or discriminated against at work.
or discriminated against at work.
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I want to help you
turn your memory into evidence --
turn your memory into evidence --
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evidence that even
a memory skeptic like me
a memory skeptic like me
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is unlikely to find fault with.
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First of all, James Comey had it right.
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The former head of the FBI
used to sit in his car,
used to sit in his car,
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lock himself in after meetings
with the president
with the president
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and write down absolutely everything
he could remember about what happened.
he could remember about what happened.
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The now-famous recordings
proved to be quite useful later on.
proved to be quite useful later on.
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Be like Comey.
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Now, you don't need to lock yourself
into your car to do this,
into your car to do this,
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but please, immediately
after something happens,
after something happens,
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I want you to contemporaneously
record what happened.
record what happened.
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And do this before talking
to anyone else about it.
to anyone else about it.
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Because as soon as your share your story
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with friends or family
or colleagues or therapists,
or colleagues or therapists,
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you have the potential to distort
or change your memory of the event.
or change your memory of the event.
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Uncontaminated, contemporaneous
evidence is worth gold.
evidence is worth gold.
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Second: the type of evidence matters.
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Sure, you can do a handwritten
note of what happens,
note of what happens,
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but how do you prove when you wrote it?
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Instead, pull out
your computer or smartphone
your computer or smartphone
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and make a note that's time-stamped,
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where you can prove
this was recorded at this time.
this was recorded at this time.
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Contemporaneous,
time-stamped evidence is better.
time-stamped evidence is better.
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Finally, make sure what you're writing
down is actually relevant.
down is actually relevant.
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Too often, we see that people
bring out Facebook messages,
bring out Facebook messages,
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they bring out time-stamped
pieces of evidence,
pieces of evidence,
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but sure, they're
not particularly relevant,
not particularly relevant,
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they're not particularly useful.
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It's easy to write an emotional,
unstructured account of what happened --
unstructured account of what happened --
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understandable because
it's an emotional experience --
it's an emotional experience --
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but those might not actually be
the details that matter later on
the details that matter later on
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for an investigation.
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Write down this list.
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I want you to keep track of this
and simply fill in the blanks.
and simply fill in the blanks.
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First of all, what happened?
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In as much detail as possible,
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describe the situation,
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and do it on the day it happened
if at all possible.
if at all possible.
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Second, who was there?
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Were there any witnesses?
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This becomes crucial potentially later on.
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What exact time and date did this happen?
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What location? Where did this happen?
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Who did you tell after the event?
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How did it make you feel
during and after it happened?
during and after it happened?
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And is there any other evidence
such as WhatsApps, photos or emails
such as WhatsApps, photos or emails
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that might lend
more credibility to your case.
more credibility to your case.
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These are all details that are incredibly
easy to record contemporaneously
easy to record contemporaneously
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but are also incredibly easy
to forget later on.
to forget later on.
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Humans, according to research,
often overestimate their ability
often overestimate their ability
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to remember important
emotional details later on.
emotional details later on.
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Assume that you're going to forget.
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Assume you have to write it down.
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Now, these three pieces of advice
are a good start,
are a good start,
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but of course they don't overcome
a lot of the other barriers to reporting.
a lot of the other barriers to reporting.
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According to the Equality
and Human Rights Commission,
and Human Rights Commission,
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which published a report in 2018,
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there's one key recommendation
to overcome some of the other fears
to overcome some of the other fears
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often associated with reporting
these kinds of incidents to your employer.
these kinds of incidents to your employer.
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One piece of advice that they made?
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Have an online, anonymous reporting tool.
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Only that way, they say,
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can you truly overcome many
of the fears associated with reporting.
of the fears associated with reporting.
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Now, in line with this,
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and informed by what
was happening all around me
was happening all around me
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and taking and applying
the memory science,
the memory science,
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the science that I had
been doing for many years,
been doing for many years,
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I sat down with a number of people
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and we together created TalkToSpot.com.
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Spot is an online,
anonymous reporting tool
anonymous reporting tool
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that helps you record and report
workplace harassment and discrimination.
workplace harassment and discrimination.
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It allows you to do it anonymously,
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it allows you to do it for free,
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and it's completely evidence-based.
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You don't have to talk to a person,
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there's no fear of judgment,
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and you can do it
whenever and wherever you need.
whenever and wherever you need.
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Now you have the power to walk through
an evidence-based memory interview.
an evidence-based memory interview.
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Now, this is called a cognitive interview.
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This is the same technique that police use
when they're doing their job properly.
when they're doing their job properly.
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So in best-case scenarios,
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people who are being asked
about important emotional events
about important emotional events
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are being asked in line
with the cognitive interview.
with the cognitive interview.
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Now, this walks you through
all the relevant information
all the relevant information
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so that at the end,
after you've talked to the bot --
after you've talked to the bot --
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which is an automatic messaging system --
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after you've talked to the bot,
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it generates a PDF record
that's time-stamped and securely signed
that's time-stamped and securely signed
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that you can keep for yourself as evidence
in case you want to share it later,
in case you want to share it later,
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or you can submit it
to your employer right away.
to your employer right away.
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And in line with recommendations,
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you can submit it
to your employer anonymously.
to your employer anonymously.
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But a reporting tool is only as useful
as the audience that's listening.
as the audience that's listening.
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So if your employer
is truly committed to change,
is truly committed to change,
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we've decided to also offer them
the tool to respond.
the tool to respond.
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So if organizations work with us
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and are truly committed to doing something
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about workplace harassment
and discrimination,
and discrimination,
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they're also able to respond to you
even if you've chosen to stay anonymous.
even if you've chosen to stay anonymous.
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We think it's important that you can work
together with your employer
together with your employer
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to tackle this issue.
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We think that everybody wins
when we bring light into this dark issue.
when we bring light into this dark issue.
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Whether it happens to you
or to someone you know,
or to someone you know,
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recording and reporting what happened
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can really improve
how we talk about these issues.
how we talk about these issues.
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And if you're an organization,
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this is a call to give
your employees access
your employees access
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to better and more effective
reporting mechanisms.
reporting mechanisms.
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We know that the current methods
that are used in most organizations
that are used in most organizations
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don't work effectively.
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It's time to change that if you're
committed to inclusion and diversity.
committed to inclusion and diversity.
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It's time for us
to celebrate our diversity.
to celebrate our diversity.
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It's time for us to give a voice
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to those who have for too long
been denied one.
been denied one.
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It's time for us to celebrate
those who come forward,
those who come forward,
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even if they feel
they need to stay anonymous --
they need to stay anonymous --
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to stay masked to do so.
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It's time for a reporting revolution.
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Thank you.
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(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Julia Shaw - Psychological scientistJulia Shaw is best known for her work in the areas of memory and criminal psychology.
Why you should listen
In 2017 Dr. Julia Shaw cofounded the memory science and artificial intelligence start-up Spot. Spot helps employees report workplace harassment and discrimination and empowers organizations to build a more inclusive and respectful work environment.
In 2016 Shaw published her bestselling book The Memory Illusion, which has appeared in 18 languages. Her second book, Evil: The Science Behind Humanity's Dark Side, was released in Germany in September 2018 and was a Der Spiegel top-20 best seller. She is also a regular contributor to Scientific American.
Besides her research, Shaw is a regular keynote speaker on the topic of memory hacking and artificial intelligence. She also consults as an expert on legal cases, particularly cases involving historical allegations.
Julia Shaw | Speaker | TED.com