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Michel Dugon: The secrets of spider venom
Michel Dugon: Los secretos del veneno de araña
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El veneno de araña puede detener tu corazón en minutos, causar un dolor inimaginable y potencialmente salvar tu vida, dice el zoólogo Michel Dugon. Mientras una tarántula se arrastra hacia arriba y abajo de su brazo,. Dugon explica las propiedades médicas de esta potente toxina y cómo podría usarse para producir la próxima generación de antibióticos.
Michel Dugon - Zoologist, venom researcher
Michel Dugon researches the potential of spider venom as a source of novel therapeutic agents. Full bio
Michel Dugon researches the potential of spider venom as a source of novel therapeutic agents. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
Well, hello.
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Hola.
00:16
This is Sophie.
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Esta es Sophie.
00:17
It's all right, don't worry,
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Está bien, no se preocupen.
00:20
everything's going to be fine.
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Todo va a ir bien.
(Risas)
00:21
(Laughter)
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00:23
There are some people on the balcony
that are very happy to be up there now.
that are very happy to be up there now.
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Ahora algunos del palco estarán
muy contentos de estar arriba.
muy contentos de estar arriba.
00:27
(Laughter)
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(Risas)
00:28
So this is Sophie --
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Esta es Sophie.
00:30
not Sophia -- no, Sophie.
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No Sofía, no, Sophie.
00:32
She has a French name.
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Tiene un nombre francés.
00:33
And you wonder why?
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¿Se preguntarán por qué?
00:35
(Laughter)
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(Risas)
00:36
So Sophie, for most people,
is the incarnation of terror, really.
is the incarnation of terror, really.
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Sophie, para la mayoría,
es la encarnación del terror, de verdad
es la encarnación del terror, de verdad
00:40
She's far too leggy, she's far too hairy,
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Con patas demasiado largas,
demasiado peluda
demasiado peluda
00:42
and she's far too big to ever be trusted.
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y demasiado grande para ser confiable.
00:45
But to me, Sophie is a fantastic
feat of bioengineering.
feat of bioengineering.
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Pero para mí, Sophie es una
fantástica hazaña de la bioingeniería.
fantástica hazaña de la bioingeniería.
00:50
You see, Sophie is a testimony
to all those creatures
to all those creatures
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Verán, es un testimonio
de todas esas criaturas
de todas esas criaturas
00:54
that have managed to survive
since the beginning of time;
since the beginning of time;
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que han sobrevivido desde
el comienzo de los años;
el comienzo de los años;
00:57
all those animals
that have managed to have offspring
that have managed to have offspring
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todos esos animales que han
logrado tener descendencia
logrado tener descendencia
01:01
generation after generation,
until this day.
until this day.
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generación tras generación, hasta hoy.
01:05
You see, over one billion years ago,
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Verán hace alrededor mil millones de años
01:07
the first primitive cells
started to evolve on this planet.
started to evolve on this planet.
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las primeras células primitivas comenzaron
a evolucionaron en nuestro planeta.
a evolucionaron en nuestro planeta.
01:12
It took spiders 430 million years
to become what they are now:
to become what they are now:
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Las arañas tardaron 430 millones de años
en convertirse en lo que son ahora:
en convertirse en lo que son ahora:
01:17
one of the most versatile,
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uno de los más versátiles.
uno de los más diversos,
01:19
one of the most diverse
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01:21
and one of the most evolved groups --
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y uno de los más evolucionados grupos...
01:26
(Laughter)
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(Risas)
01:27
of predators to ever walk this earth.
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que jamás han pasado por este planeta.
01:31
It's actually quite sporty
to give a speech
to give a speech
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Es bastante difícil dar un discurso
01:33
while wrangling a tarantula,
I have to say.
I have to say.
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mientras te peleas con una tarántula.
01:35
(Laughter)
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(Risas)
01:40
So, we shouldn't forget that Sophie --
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No tenemos que olvidar que Sophie,
01:43
and in fact, all of us --
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y en realidad, todos nosotros,
01:44
we all are a testimony
to all those ruthless battles
to all those ruthless battles
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somos testimonio de las más arduas luchas
01:48
that actually were won
consistently by all our ancestors,
consistently by all our ancestors,
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que han vencido todos
nuestros antecesores,
nuestros antecesores,
01:52
all our predecessors.
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todos nuestros predecesores.
01:54
In fact, all of us,
every single one of you,
every single one of you,
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Todos nosotros, todos y cada uno de Uds.
01:58
is in fact an uninterrupted,
one-billion-years-old success story.
one-billion-years-old success story.
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es un éxito de la historia
que ha durado mil millones de años.
que ha durado mil millones de años.
02:05
And in the gaze of Sophie,
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Y en la mirada de Sophie,
02:06
that success is partly due
to what she has in her chest,
to what she has in her chest,
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es debido a lo que tiene en su pecho,
02:10
just under her eyes.
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justo debajo de sus ojos:
02:11
In there, she has a pair of venom glands
that are attached to a pair of fangs,
that are attached to a pair of fangs,
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un par de glándulas venenosas unidas
02:17
and those fangs are folded into her mouth.
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a dos colmillos plegados en su boca.
02:21
So, without those fangs
and without this venom,
and without this venom,
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Sin esos colmillos y sin ese veneno,
02:25
Sophie would have never
managed to survive.
managed to survive.
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Sophie nunca habría logrado sobrevivir.
02:28
Now, many animals have evolved
venom systems in order to survive.
venom systems in order to survive.
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Muchos animales han desarrollado
02:32
Nowadays, any species of venomous snakes,
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sistemas venenosos para sobrevivir
02:34
any species of spider,
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cada especie serpiente,
02:36
any species of scorpion,
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de araña, o de escorpión,
02:38
has its own venom signature, if you will,
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tiene su propia firma de veneno
02:42
made out of dozens, if not hundreds,
of chemical compounds.
of chemical compounds.
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hecha de cientos de compuestos químicos.
02:47
And all of those compounds
have evolved purely for one purpose:
have evolved purely for one purpose:
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que han evolucionado con un propósito:
02:52
disable and, eventually, kill.
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inhabilitar, y finalmente, matar.
02:55
Now, venom can actually act
in many different ways.
in many different ways.
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El veneno puede actuar de muchas formas
02:59
Venom, believe me, can make you feel
pains that you've never felt before.
pains that you've never felt before.
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Hace sentir dolores horribles
03:04
Venom can also make
your heart stop within minutes,
your heart stop within minutes,
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parar tu corazón en unos minutos,
03:08
or it can turn your blood into jelly.
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o puede convertir tu sangre en gelatina.
03:10
Venom can also paralyze you
almost instantly,
almost instantly,
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Puede incluso paralizarte al instante,
03:13
or it can just eat
your flesh away, like acid.
your flesh away, like acid.
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o puede devorar tu carne, como el ácido.
03:18
Now, all of these are pretty
gruesome stories, I know,
gruesome stories, I know,
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Historias bastante horripilantes, lo sé,
03:22
but, to me, it's kind of music to my ears.
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pero para mí, es música para los oídos.
03:26
It's what I love.
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Es lo que amo.
03:27
So why is that?
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Y, ¿por qué es así?
03:29
Well, it's not because I'm a nutcase, no.
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Bueno, no es porque soy un retorcido, no.
03:31
(Laughter)
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(Risas)
03:33
Just imagine what we could do
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Tan solo imaginen lo que podríamos hacer
03:36
if we could harvest
all those super powerful compounds
all those super powerful compounds
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si pudiéramos tomar todos estos compuestos
03:40
and use them to our benefit.
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y usarlos en nuestro beneficio.
03:43
That would be amazing, right?
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Sería maravilloso, ¿no?
03:45
What if we could, I don't know,
produce new antibiotics with those venoms?
produce new antibiotics with those venoms?
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¿Y si hiciéramos nuevos antibióticos?
03:49
What if we could actually help people
that are suffering from diabetes
that are suffering from diabetes
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¿Y ayudar a la gente con diabetes?
03:53
or hypertension?
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¿O hipertensión?
03:55
Well, in fact, all those applications
are already being developed
are already being developed
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Todo esto se está ya desarrollando
04:00
by scientists just like me
everywhere around the world, as I speak.
everywhere around the world, as I speak.
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por científicos como yo por todo el mundo
04:06
You see, hypertension is actually treated
regularly with a medication
regularly with a medication
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la hipertensión se trata con un fármaco
04:11
that has been developed from the toxin
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que se ha extraído de una toxina
04:13
that is produced
by a South American viper.
by a South American viper.
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que produce una víbora en Sudamérica.
04:17
People that have type 2 diabetes
can be monitored using, actually,
can be monitored using, actually,
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La gente que tiene diabetes tipo 2,
04:20
the toxin produced
by a lizard from North America.
by a lizard from North America.
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de un lagarto de Norteamérica.
04:24
And in hospitals all around the world,
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Y en los hospitales de todo el mundo,
04:26
a new protocol is being developed
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se está creando un nuevo protocolo
04:28
to use a toxin from
a marine snail for anesthetics.
a marine snail for anesthetics.
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con caracoles marinos en los anestésicos.
04:34
You see, venom is that kind of huge
library of chemical compounds
library of chemical compounds
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El veneno es una biblioteca de compuestos
04:40
that are available to us,
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a nuestra disposición
04:42
that are produced by hundreds
of thousands of live creatures.
of thousands of live creatures.
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producidos por miles de criaturas vivas.
04:46
And --
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Y....
04:48
Oh, sorry, she just wants
to go for a little walk.
to go for a little walk.
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Oh, quiere ir a darse un pequeño paseo...
04:51
(Laughter)
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(Risa)
04:52
Spiders alone are actually
thought to produce
thought to produce
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Se piensa que tan solo la arañas producen
04:56
over 10 million different
kinds of compounds
kinds of compounds
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unos diez millones de compuestos
05:00
with potential therapeutic application.
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con posible aplicación terapéutica.
05:03
10 million.
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Diez millones.
05:04
And do you know how many scientists
actually have managed to study so far?
actually have managed to study so far?
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Y, ¿que se ha logrado
estudiar hasta ahora?
estudiar hasta ahora?
05:08
About 0.01 percent.
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Un 0,01 % aproximadamente.
05:11
So that means that there is still
99.99 percent of all those compounds
99.99 percent of all those compounds
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Lo cual significa que un 99,99 de ellos
05:17
that are out there, completely unknown,
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siguen ahí, completamente desconocidos,
05:19
and are just waiting
to be harvested and tested,
to be harvested and tested,
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y están esperando a ser analizados,
05:21
which is fantastic.
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lo cual es fantástico.
05:23
You see, so far, scientists
have concentrated their efforts
have concentrated their efforts
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Los científicos usan sus esfuerzos
05:27
on very charismatic,
very dangerous animals --
very dangerous animals --
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en animales llamativos y peligrosos,
05:31
vipers and cobras or scorpions
and black widows.
and black widows.
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víboras, cobras, escorpiones.
05:35
But what about all those little bugs
that we actually have all around us?
that we actually have all around us?
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Pero ¿qué pasa con los otros insectos?
05:40
You know, like that spider
that lives behind your couch?
that lives behind your couch?
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como esa araña que vive debajo del sofá,
05:44
You know, the one that decides
to just shoot through the floor
to just shoot through the floor
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¿sabes? esa que sale disparada del suelo
05:47
when you're watching TV
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cuando ves la televisión
05:48
and freaks you out?
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y te da un susto.
05:50
Ah, you have that one at home as well.
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Tú también la tienes en tu casa, ¿no?
05:52
(Laughter)
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(Risas)
05:53
Well, what about those guys?
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Y, ¿qué pasa con esos tipos?
05:55
Do they actually produce
some kind of amazing compound
some kind of amazing compound
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¿Producen también algún compuesto
05:59
in their tiny body as well?
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en su cuerpo minúsculo?
06:01
Well, an honest answer a few months ago
would have been, "We have no clue."
would have been, "We have no clue."
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Hace poco dirían: ''ni idea''.
06:05
But now that my students and myself
have started to look into it,
have started to look into it,
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Pero ahora que hemos empezado a investigar
06:09
I can tell you those guys
actually are producing
actually are producing
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Os digo que sí, que están produciendo
06:12
very, very interesting compounds.
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compuestos muy, muy interesantes.
06:15
And I'm going to tell you
more about that in a second,
more about that in a second,
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Hablaré más sobre esto en un segundo,
06:18
but first, I would like to tell you more
about this "we are looking into it."
about this "we are looking into it."
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antes quiero contaros cómo investigamos
06:22
How does one look into it?
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¿Cómo investiga uno el asunto?
06:25
Well, first of all, my students and I
have to capture a lot of spiders.
have to capture a lot of spiders.
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Primero, tenemos que cazar muchas arañas.
06:30
So how do we do that?
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Y, ¿cómo lo hacemos?
06:31
Well, you'd be surprised.
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Bueno, seguramente os sorprenda.
06:33
Once one starts to look,
one finds a lot of spiders.
one finds a lot of spiders.
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Si observas, encuentras muchas arañas.
06:38
They actually live everywhere around us.
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Viven en todos lados alrededor nuestra
06:40
Within a couple of hours,
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En un par de horas,
06:41
we are capable of catching maybe
two, three, four hundred spiders,
two, three, four hundred spiders,
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seríamos capaces de capturar cuatrocientas
06:46
and we bring them back to my laboratory,
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Luego, las llevamos a nuestro laboratorio,
06:48
and we house each of them
in its own individual home.
in its own individual home.
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las alojamos cada una en su hogar,
06:52
And we give each of them a little meal.
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Y le damos a cada una su ración de comida.
06:55
So now I know what you're thinking:
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Sé lo que estáis pensando:
06:57
"This guy's nuts.
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'Este tío está tarado'
06:58
He has a spider B&B at work ..."
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'Tiene un Air B&B para arañas'
07:00
(Laughter)
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(Risas)
07:02
No, no it's not exactly that,
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No, no es exactamente eso,
07:04
and it's not the kind of venture
I would advise you to start.
I would advise you to start.
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y no es un negocio que recomendaría.
07:09
No, once we're done with that,
we wait a few days,
we wait a few days,
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Una vez hecho esto, esperamos unos días,
07:12
and then, we anesthetize those spiders.
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y entonces, anestesiamos todas las arañas
07:15
Once they're asleep, we run a tiny
little electric current through their body
little electric current through their body
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les aplicamos suaves corrientes eléctricas
07:20
and that contracts their venom glads.
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para contraer sus glándulas venenosas.
07:22
Then, under a microscope, we can see
a tiny little droplet of venom appearing.
a tiny little droplet of venom appearing.
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Y, bajo el microscopio, podemos ver
07:27
So we take a hair-thin
glass tube, a capillary,
glass tube, a capillary,
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una pequeñísima gotita de veneno aparecer
07:30
and we collect that tiny droplet.
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y la recogemos con un conducto muy fino
07:33
Then, we take the spider
and we put it back into its home,
and we put it back into its home,
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Luego, devolvemos la araña a su hogar,
07:36
and we start again with another one.
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para empezar luego con otra.
07:38
Because spiders are completely
unharmed during the process,
unharmed during the process,
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Dado que las arañas no sufren ningún daño,
07:43
it means that a few days later,
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unos días después,
07:44
once they've produced a little bit
of venom again and they've recovered,
of venom again and they've recovered,
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cuando se han repuesto y producen veneno
07:48
we can release them back into the wild.
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podemos devolverlas a su medio natural.
07:50
It takes literally hundreds of spiders
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Hace falta literalmente cientos de arañas,
07:53
to just produce the equivalent
of one raindrop of venom.
of one raindrop of venom.
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solo para producir una cantidad de veneno
07:58
So that drop is incredibly precious to us.
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equivalente a una gota de agua
08:02
And once we have it, we freeze it,
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Por eso es muy valiosa para nosotros.
08:04
and we then pass it in a machine
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Luego la congelamos, y en una máquina
08:05
that will separate and purify every
chemical compound that is in that venom.
chemical compound that is in that venom.
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separamos y purificamos los compuestos.
08:11
We're speaking about tiny amounts.
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Hablamos de poquísima cantidad.
08:13
We're actually speaking about a tenth
of a millionth of a liter of compound,
of a millionth of a liter of compound,
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Una décima de millonésima de litro,
08:18
but we can dilute that compound
several thousand times
several thousand times
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diluimos el compuesto unas miles de veces,
08:21
in its own volume of water
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en su propio volumen de agua
08:23
and then test it against
a whole range of nasty stuff,
a whole range of nasty stuff,
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y lo probamos contra muchas cosas malas,
08:26
like cancer cells or bacteria.
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como células cancerígenas o bacterias.
08:30
And this is when the very exciting
part of my job starts,
part of my job starts,
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Ahora es cuando lo más divertido empieza
08:35
because this is pure scientific gambling.
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porque es como un juego de azar,
08:38
It's kind of "Las Vegas, baby," for me.
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Como ''¡Ea, llegamos a las Vegas, baby!''.
08:42
(Laughter)
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(Risas)
08:43
We spend so many hours, so much resources,
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Gastamos mucho tiempo y recursos,
08:47
so much time trying to get
those compounds ready,
those compounds ready,
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muchísimo, para preparar estos compuestos,
08:50
and then we test them.
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y entonces los analizamos.
08:52
And most of the time, nothing happens.
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Y la mayoría del tiempo, no ocurre nada.
08:55
Nothing at all.
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Nada en absoluto.
08:57
But once in a while --
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Pero entonces...a veces,
08:58
just once in a while,
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solo a veces,
09:00
we get that particular compound
that has absolutely amazing effects.
that has absolutely amazing effects.
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Hay uno que tiene efectos increíbles.
09:04
That's the jackpot.
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¡Nos toca la lotería!
09:06
And when I'm saying that, actually,
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Y cuando digo esto, en realidad,
09:08
I should take out something
else from my pocket --
else from my pocket --
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debería sacar algo más de mi bolsillo,
09:10
be afraid, be very afraid.
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asustaros, asustaros mucho.
09:12
(Laughter)
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(Risas)
09:13
Now, in that little tube,
I have, actually, a very common spider.
I have, actually, a very common spider.
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Aquí tengo una araña muy común.
09:17
The kind of spider
that you could find in your shed,
that you could find in your shed,
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que podríais encontrar en el cobertizo,
09:20
that you could find in your basement
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que podrías encontrar en el sótano,
09:22
or that you could find in your sewer pipe,
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o que podrías encontrar en tu sumidero,
09:25
understand: in your toilet.
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entiéndeme: en tu váter.
09:28
Now, that little spider happens to produce
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Resulta que esta pequeña araña produce
09:31
amazingly powerful
antimicrobial compounds.
antimicrobial compounds.
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compuestos antimicrobianos poderosísimos.
09:35
It is even capable of killing
those drug-resistant bacteria
those drug-resistant bacteria
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Que mata bacterias resistentes a fármacos.
09:40
that are giving us so much trouble,
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Esas que causan tantos problemas,
09:42
that are often making media headlines.
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y que están en todos los titulares.
09:45
Now, honestly, if I was living
in your sewer pipe,
in your sewer pipe,
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Bueno, si estuviera viviendo en un váter,
09:47
I'd produce antibiotics, too.
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estaría produciendo antibióticos.
09:49
(Laughter)
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(Risas)
09:51
But that little spider,
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Pero esta pequeña araña,
09:54
may actually hold the answer
to a very, very serious concern we have.
to a very, very serious concern we have.
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podría contener la respuesta a un problema
09:59
You see, around the world,
every single day,
every single day,
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muy serio, en todo el mundo, cada día,
10:02
about 1,700 people die because of
antimicrobial-resistant infections.
antimicrobial-resistant infections.
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Hay 1.700 muertes por infecciones
10:08
Multiply that by 365,
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de organismos resistentes a antibióticos.
10:11
and you're reaching the staggering number
of 700,000 people dead every single year
of 700,000 people dead every single year
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700.000 todos y cada uno de los años.
10:17
because antibiotics that were efficient
30, 20 or 10 years ago
30, 20 or 10 years ago
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porque los que fueron eficaces hace años
10:23
are not capable of killing
very common bugs.
very common bugs.
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ya no matan los bichos más comunes.
10:26
The reality is that the world
is running out of antibiotics,
is running out of antibiotics,
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El mundo se queda sin antibióticos,
10:30
and the pharmaceutical industry
does not have any answer,
does not have any answer,
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y la industria farmacéutica no tiene
10:34
actually, any weapon
to address that concern.
to address that concern.
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ningún arma para abordar este problema.
10:38
You see, 30 years ago,
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Hace treinta años,
10:40
you could consider that 10 to 15
new kinds of antibiotics
new kinds of antibiotics
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entre 10 y 15 nuevos tipos de antibióticos
10:44
would hit the market
every couple of years.
every couple of years.
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salían al mercado cada dos años.
10:46
Do you know how many of them
hit the market in the past five years?
hit the market in the past five years?
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¿Cuántos salieron los últimos cinco años?
10:50
Two.
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Dos.
10:51
The reality is
that if we continue this way,
that if we continue this way,
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La realidad es que, si continuamos así,
10:55
we are a few decades away
from being completely helpless
from being completely helpless
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estamos solo a unas cuantas décadas
10:59
in front of infections,
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de estar indefensos contra infecciones,
11:01
just like we were before the discovery
of penicillin 90 years ago.
of penicillin 90 years ago.
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como antes de la penicilina.
11:05
So you see, the reality
is that we are at war
is that we are at war
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En realidad, estamos en guerra
11:08
against an invisible enemy
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contra un enemigo invisible
11:10
that adapts and evolves
a lot quicker than we do.
a lot quicker than we do.
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que se adapta y evoluciona
11:14
And in that war,
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mucho más rápido, y esta araña
11:16
this little spider might be
one of our greatest secret weapons.
one of our greatest secret weapons.
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puede ser nuestra mejor arma secreta.
11:21
Just a half a millionth
of a liter of a venom,
of a liter of a venom,
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Solo la mitad de una millonésima parte
11:25
diluted 10,000 times,
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de un litro de veneno diluido 10.000 veces
11:28
is still capable of killing most bacteria
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puede matar la mayoría de las bacterias
11:34
that are resistant
to any other kind of antibiotics.
to any other kind of antibiotics.
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que se resisten a los antibióticos.
11:38
It's absolutely amazing.
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Es absolutamente maravilloso.
11:39
Every time I repeat
this experiment, I just wonder:
this experiment, I just wonder:
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Cada vez, con el experimento, me pregunto:
11:43
How is that possible?
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¿Cómo es posible?
11:45
How many other possibilities and secrets
do the siblings actually have?
do the siblings actually have?
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¿Cuántas posibilidades hay en ellas?
11:51
What kind of wonderful product
can we really find, if we care to look?
can we really find, if we care to look?
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¿Qué maravilloso producto nos podrían dar?
11:57
So when people ask me, "Are bugs
really the future of therapeutic drugs?"
really the future of therapeutic drugs?"
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Cuando preguntan: ''¿Son estos bichos
12:01
my answer is, "Well, I really believe
that they do hold some key answers."
that they do hold some key answers."
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el futuro de los medicamentos? Respondo:
12:08
And we need to really give ourselves
the means to investigate them.
the means to investigate them.
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''Guardan respuestas claves a investigar''
12:12
So when you head back home later tonight,
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Cuando vuelvan a casa luego por la noche,
12:15
and you see that spider
in the corner of your room ...
in the corner of your room ...
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y vean una araña en su habitación...
12:18
(Laughter)
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(Risas)
12:19
don't squash it.
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no la aplasten.
12:20
(Laughter)
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(Risas)
12:22
Just look at it, admire it
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Quédense mirándola, admírenla
12:25
and remember that it is
an absolutely fantastic creature,
an absolutely fantastic creature,
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recuerden que es una criatura maravillosa,
12:29
a pure product of evolution,
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puro producto de la evolución,
12:31
and that maybe that very spider,
one day, will hold the answer,
one day, will hold the answer,
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y que quizás, un día, dará la respuesta,
12:36
will hold the key
to your very own survival.
to your very own survival.
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la llave, para nuestra supervivencia.
12:40
You see, she's not so insignificant
anymore now, is she?
anymore now, is she?
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¿Ven?, no es insignificante, ¿no creen?
12:43
(Laughter)
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(Risas)
12:44
Thank you.
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Gracias.
12:45
(Applause)
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(Aplausos)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Michel Dugon - Zoologist, venom researcherMichel Dugon researches the potential of spider venom as a source of novel therapeutic agents.
Why you should listen
Michel Dugon runs the Venom Systems and Proteomics Lab and teaches zoology at the National University of Ireland Galway. His research focuses on the evolution of venom systems and on the potential of arthropod venom as a source of novel therapeutic agents. After a six-year stint chasing venomous creatures in the jungles of South East Asia, Dugon published extensively on the evolution of venom systems while pursuing a PhD in Evolutionary Developmental Biology. He was awarded the 2015 Irish National Teaching Award in Higher Education and the 2017 Ryan Award for Innovation. Dugon is currently working on developing the VIDAA network (Venom Investigations for the Development of Antimicrobial Agents) in collaboration with Irish, French and Belgian researchers.
As the founder and director of the science outreach Eco Explorers, Dugon dedicates a sizable amount of his time to promoting ecological awareness in the media and in schools throughout Ireland. Dr Dugon's work has been featured on national and international networks, including RTE, the BBC, Euronews and SKY.
Michel Dugon | Speaker | TED.com