TED2002
Dan Dennett: Dangerous memes
谈危险的模因，丹尼尔·丹尼特
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从一只蚂蚁的小故事说起，哲学家丹·丹尼特用摧枯拉朽的思想齐鸣，有力地辩护了活着的思想--模因--的存在。
Dan Dennett - Philosopher, cognitive scientist
Dan Dennett thinks that human consciousness and free will are the result of physical processes. Full bio
Dan Dennett thinks that human consciousness and free will are the result of physical processes. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:25
How many Creationists do we have in the room?
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我们这儿有多少神创论者？
00:28
Probably none. I think we're all Darwinians.
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可能没有。我估计都是达尔文主义者。
00:31
And yet many Darwinians are anxious, a little uneasy --
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可是很多达尔文主义者都有点急切不安，
00:38
would like to see some limits on just how far the Darwinism goes.
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想看看达尔文主义的极限，看它到底能走多远。
00:43
It's all right.
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没问题
00:45
You know spiderwebs? Sure, they are products of evolution.
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你知道蜘蛛网吗？当然了，这是进化来的。
00:49
The World Wide Web? Not so sure.
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万维网呢？不太确定。
00:53
Beaver dams, yes. Hoover Dam, no.
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海狸窝，是。胡佛大坝，不是。
00:55
What do they think it is that prevents the products of human ingenuity
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是什么让他们认为
01:01
from being themselves, fruits of the tree of life,
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人的智慧不是生命之树的果实
01:04
and hence, in some sense, obeying evolutionary rules?
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因而在某种意义上，不遵守进化的法则呢？
01:10
And yet people are interestingly resistant
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人们很有趣地抵制这个想法：
01:14
to the idea of applying evolutionary thinking to thinking -- to our thinking.
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抵制把进化论应用到“思维”--我们的思维--上。
01:21
And so I'm going to talk a little bit about that,
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我将对此发表些看法
01:25
keeping in mind that we have a lot on the program here.
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同时提醒自己，节目上还有很多其他的内容呢。
01:29
So you're out in the woods, or you're out in the pasture,
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设想一下你现在身处森林里，或者在田园中
01:33
and you see this ant crawling up this blade of grass.
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你看见一只蚂蚁正爬上一片草叶
01:36
It climbs up to the top, and it falls,
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它爬到顶上，又落下来
01:39
and it climbs, and it falls, and it climbs --
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然后又爬到顶，又落下来，然后又爬——
01:42
trying to stay at the very top of the blade of grass.
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总想停留在草叶的最尖端
01:46
What is this ant doing? What is this in aid of?
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它在干吗？它想做什么？
01:51
What goals is this ant trying to achieve by climbing this blade of grass?
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试图爬到草的尖端，想达到什么目的？
01:58
What's in it for the ant?
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那里对于蚂蚁而言有什么呢？
02:00
And the answer is: nothing. There's nothing in it for the ant.
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答案是：什么也没有。对于蚂蚁，那里什么也没有
02:06
Well then, why is it doing this?
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那为什么要这么做呢？
02:09
Is it just a fluke?
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它只是侥幸吗？
02:11
Yeah, it's just a fluke. It's a lancet fluke.
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是的，它只是个侥幸。它叫枝双腔吸虫。
02:18
It's a little brain worm.
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是个在大脑里的小虫子
02:20
It's a parasitic brain worm that has to get into the stomach of a sheep or a cow
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这种大脑里的虫子，要钻进羊或者牛的腹部
02:25
in order to continue its life cycle.
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来继续自己的生命周期
02:28
Salmon swim upstream to get to their spawning grounds,
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三文鱼逆流而上而到达卵场
02:33
and lancet flukes commandeer a passing ant,
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枝双腔吸虫霸占一只路过的蚂蚁
02:37
crawl into its brain, and drive it up a blade of grass like an all-terrain vehicle.
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爬进它的大脑，像驾着越野车一样使它爬上草叶的顶端，
02:42
So there's nothing in it for the ant.
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所以对于蚂蚁来说，那里一无所有
02:46
The ant's brain has been hijacked by a parasite that infects the brain,
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这蚂蚁的大脑，被寄生虫劫持了
02:54
inducing suicidal behavior.
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继而产生了自杀行为
02:58
Pretty scary.
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相当可怕
03:00
Well, does anything like that happen with human beings?
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那么，类似的事情发生在人类身上吗？
03:05
This is all on behalf of a cause other than one's own genetic fitness, of course.
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当然，这完全不以某人的基因适应性的名义
03:10
Well, it may already have occurred to you
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你可能已经猜到了
03:15
that Islam means "surrender," or "submission of self-interest to the will of Allah."
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“伊斯兰”的意思，是“投降”，或者“自我利益服从于真主的意志”
03:25
Well, it's ideas -- not worms -- that hijack our brains.
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劫持我们大脑的，是思想，不是虫子
03:31
Now, am I saying that a sizable minority of the world's population
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那我是不是说，世界人口的一小部分
03:36
has had their brain hijacked by parasitic ideas?
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大脑已经被寄生思想劫持了呢？
03:43
No, it's worse than that.
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不是。比这还糟。
03:45
Most people have.
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“大部分人”都已经被劫持了
03:49
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:53
There are a lot of ideas to die for.
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让人献身的思想有很多
03:55
Freedom, if you're from New Hampshire.
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自由--如果你来自新罕布什尔
03:58
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:02
Justice. Truth. Communism.
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正义，真理，共产主义
04:06
Many people have laid down their lives for communism,
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很多人为共产主义而死掉了
04:09
and many have laid down their lives for capitalism.
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也很多为了资本主义而死掉了
04:12
And many for Catholicism. And many for Islam.
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很多为天主教献身，也很多为伊斯兰教
04:16
These are just a few of the ideas that are to die for.
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这只是一小部分使人献身的思想
04:21
They're infectious.
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它们都具传染性
04:24
Yesterday, Amory Lovins spoke about "infectious repititis."
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昨天，阿莫锐·陆文斯(Amory Lovins）提到了"传染性的复制"
04:28
It was a term of abuse, in effect.
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那其实是个贬义词。
04:31
This is unthinking engineering.
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这是未经思考的工程设计。
04:33
Well, most of the cultural spread that goes on
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大部分文化的传播，
04:37
is not brilliant, new, out-of-the-box thinking.
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并不是伟大、崭新、拿来就用的思想。
04:41
It's "infectious repetitis,"
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只是传染性的复制。
04:43
and we might as well try to have a theory of what's going on when that happens
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或许有一套解释它的理论
04:48
so that we can understand the conditions of infection.
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让人能理解传染所需的条件。
04:54
Hosts work hard to spread these ideas to others.
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寄主努力传播思想给他人。
05:01
I myself am a philosopher, and one of our occupational hazards
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我自己是一个哲学家。我们这个行业的公害之一
05:07
is that people ask us what the meaning of life is.
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就是总被问到生命的意义是什么
05:11
And you have to have a bumper sticker,
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你必须得有个保险杠贴纸
05:14
you know. You have to have a statement.
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你知道，某种宣言式的东西
05:17
So, this is mine.
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我的是这个
05:19
The secret of happiness is: Find something more important than you are
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幸福的秘密在于：寻找某种比你更重要的东西
05:23
and dedicate your life to it.
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并把生命投入其中
05:25
Most of us -- now that the "Me Decade" is well in the past --
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我们中的大多数--“‘我’的时代”已经过去了--
05:29
now we actually do this.
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是这样做的
05:31
One set of ideas or another
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这样或者那样的一套理论
05:34
have simply replaced our biological imperatives in our own lives.
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取代了我们生命中的、生物学上的使命
05:38
This is what our summum bonum is.
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此乃我们的最高价值之所在
05:41
It's not maximizing the number of grandchildren we have.
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而非最大化我们的儿孙数
05:44
Now, this is a profound biological effect.
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请注意，这是个意义深刻的生物学效应
05:48
It's the subordination of genetic interest to other interests.
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这是基因利益对其他利益的服从
05:51
And no other species does anything at all like it.
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而且没有任何其他物种这么做
05:55
Well, how are we going to think about this?
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我们对此应该作何感想？
05:57
It is, on the one hand, a biological effect, and a very large one.
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一方面，这是生物学上的效应，很大的一个。
06:01
Unmistakable.
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毫无疑问。
06:03
Now, what theories do we want to use to look at this?
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我们用什么理论来探查它呢？
06:06
Well, many theories. But how could something tie them together?
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有很多的理论。但什么才能使他们得到统一？
06:09
The idea of replicating ideas;
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那就是“复制思想”这个主意
06:12
ideas that replicate by passing from brain to brain.
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即那些在大脑之间传递而得到复制的思想
06:17
Richard Dawkins, whom you'll be hearing later in the day, invented the term "memes,"
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今天晚些时候你们会听理查德·道金斯（Richard Dawkins）的演讲。他发明了“模因”这个词
06:22
and put forward the first really clear and vivid version of this idea
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并第一次清晰生动阐释地解释了“模因”
06:27
in his book "The Selfish Gene."
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就在他《自私的基因》这本书里
06:29
Now here am I talking about his idea.
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我在这里说说他的思想
06:32
Well, you see, it's not his. Yes -- he started it.
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当然，你也知道，现在这已经不是他的了。尽管他创造了它
06:38
But it's everybody's idea now.
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现在，它属于所有人
06:41
And he's not responsible for what I say about memes.
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他不为我说的负责
06:45
I'm responsible for what I say about memes.
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我负责
06:50
Actually, I think we're all responsible
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事实上，我认为我们都要为其负责
06:53
for not just the intended effects of our ideas,
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不仅仅为我们思想意图达到的效果
06:59
but for their likely misuses.
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还要为对它们潜在的错误使用负责
07:03
So it is important, I think, to Richard, and to me,
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所以我想，对我和理查德（道金斯）而言，很重要的事
07:07
that these ideas not be abused and misused.
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就是确保这些想法不被误用或者滥用
07:11
They're very easy to misuse. That's why they're dangerous.
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它们很容易被误用。这也是它们的危险之处
07:14
And it's just about a full-time job
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这几乎是一份全职工作
07:17
trying to prevent people who are scared of these ideas
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来防止害怕这些想法的人
07:20
from caricaturing them and then running off to one dire purpose or another.
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去讽刺这些思想，然后跑去做一件又一件可怕的事
07:28
So we have to keep plugging away,
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所以我们必须坚持不懈地
07:31
trying to correct the misapprehensions
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不断试图矫正各种误解
07:33
so that only the benign and useful variants of our ideas continue to spread.
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确保只有思想中有用的、无害的部分得到传播
07:41
But it is a problem.
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但这是个问题。
07:45
We don't have much time, and I'm going to go over just a little bit of this and cut out,
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我们的时间不多了，所以我就说一点点，然后打住
07:50
because there's a lot of other things that are going to be said.
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因为还有很多其他的内容
07:53
So let me just point out: memes are like viruses.
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我想说的是：模因就像病毒
07:58
That's what Richard said, back in '93.
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这是理查德在93年说的
08:00
And you might think, "Well, how can that be?
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你可能在想：这怎么可能？
08:02
I mean, a virus is -- you know, it's stuff! What's a meme made of?"
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你知道，病毒是个“东西”！模因是什么构成的呢？
08:09
Yesterday, Negroponte was talking about viral telecommunications
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昨天，尼葛洛庞帝提到了病毒电子通讯
08:14
but -- what's a virus?
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但什么是病毒？
08:15
A virus is a string of nucleic acid with attitude.
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病毒是一串有态度的核酸
08:19
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
08:20
That is, there is something about it
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也就是说，它有某种东西
08:22
that tends to make it replicate better than the competition does.
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这东西使它在复制的比赛中脱颖而出
08:26
And that's what a meme is. It's an information packet with attitude.
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这也就是模因；有态度的一包信息
08:30
What's a meme made of? What are bits made of, Mom?
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模因是由什么构成的？“妈妈，比特是由什么构成的？”
08:36
Not silicon.
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反正不是硅
08:38
They're made of information, and can be carried in any physical medium.
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他们是信息构成的，载体可以是任何物理媒介
08:42
What's a word made of?
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单词是什么构成的？
08:44
Sometimes when people say, "Do memes exist?"
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有时候人们说：“模因存在吗？”
08:49
I say, "Well, do words exist? Are they in your ontology?"
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我说：“单词存在吗？它们在你的本体论里吗？”
08:53
If they are, words are memes that can be pronounced.
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如果在，单词就是可以发音的模因
08:58
Then there's all the other memes that can't be pronounced.
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那么也有其他不能发音的模因
09:01
There are different species of memes.
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它们是模因中的不同物种
09:09
Remember the Shakers? Gift to be simple?
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还记得震教徒吗？天赋简朴？
09:13
Simple, beautiful furniture?
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漂亮而简单的家具？
09:16
And, of course, they're basically extinct now.
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当然了，他们基本上已经灭绝了。
09:19
And one of the reasons is that among the creed of Shaker-dom
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其中的一个原因是，他们的信条当中，
09:25
is that one should be celibate.
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有一条求要独身。
09:27
Not just the priests. Everybody.
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不光是牧师，所有人都要。
09:29
Well, it's not so surprising that they've gone extinct. (Laughter)
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它们灭绝也就不奇怪了（笑声）
09:37
But in fact that's not why they went extinct.
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事实上，这不是他们消失的原因。
09:42
They survived as long as they did
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他们维持了很久。
09:45
at a time when the social safety nets weren't there.
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那时候还没有社会保障制度，
09:47
And there were lots of widows and orphans,
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有很多的鳏寡和孤儿，
09:50
people like that, who needed a foster home.
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这些需要收容的人。
09:53
And so they had a ready supply of converts.
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所以他们有个皈依信徒的供应链。
09:56
And they could keep it going.
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这样他们就不会绝迹。
09:58
And, in principle, it could've gone on forever,
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理论上说，他们可以永远这样下去，
10:00
with perfect celibacy on the part of the hosts.
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尽管寄主们都是独身的。
10:03
The idea being passed on through proselytizing,
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思想通过皈依得到传递，
10:08
instead of through the gene line.
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而不是基因线。
10:13
So the ideas can live on in spite of the fact
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所以思想可以一直传播下去，
10:17
that they're not being passed on genetically.
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尽管并没有通过基因。
10:20
A meme can flourish in spite of having a negative impact on genetic fitness.
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纵使模因对生物基因的适合度有负面影响，
10:24
After all, the meme for Shaker-dom was essentially a sterilizing parasite.
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毕竟震教徒们的模因本质上是令人绝育的寄生虫
10:33
There are other parasites that do this -- which render the host sterile.
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有很多这种让寄主不育的寄生虫
10:40
It's part of their plan.
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它们的计划就是如此
10:42
They don't have to have minds to have a plan.
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它们不需要心灵来做计划
10:47
I'm just going to draw your attention to just one
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我只指出模因视角的许多含义里面，
10:52
of the many implications of the memetic perspective, which I recommend.
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我所推荐的一个。
11:01
I've not time to go into more of it.
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我没时间讲多些
11:03
In Jared Diamond's wonderful book, "Guns, Germs and Steel,"
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在贾雷德·戴蒙德《枪炮，细菌和钢铁》这本奇书中
11:07
he talks about how it was germs, more than guns and steel,
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他谈到为什么是细菌，而不是枪炮和钢铁
11:13
that conquered the new hemisphere -- the Western hemisphere --
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征服了新半球--也就是西半球
11:18
that conquered the rest of the world.
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然后西半球又征服了世界的其他部分。
11:20
When European explorers and travelers spread out,
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当欧洲的探险家和旅行者们分散出去
11:27
they brought with them the germs
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他们也随身带去了
11:29
that they had become essentially immune to,
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他们已经形成免疫的细菌
11:32
that they had learned how to tolerate over
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他们已经可以相安无事了
11:35
hundreds and hundreds of years, thousands of years,
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成百上千年来，
11:38
of living with domesticated animals who were the sources of those pathogens.
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他们同带有病原体的驯养的动物们一起生存
11:43
And they just wiped out -- these pathogens just wiped out the native people,
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然后它们--那些病原体们--彻底摧毁了原住民们
11:48
who had no immunity to them at all.
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因为原住民对它们毫无免疫力
11:51
And we're doing it again.
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现在我们又在做同样的事
11:55
We're doing it this time with toxic ideas.
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这次我们用的是有毒的思想。
12:00
Yesterday, a number of people -- Nicholas Negroponte and others --
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昨天，尼古拉斯·尼葛洛庞帝等人
12:04
spoke about all the wonderful things
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说到了这些奇妙的事情
12:06
that are happening when our ideas get spread out,
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这些当思想得到传播时发生的事
12:09
thanks to all the new technology all over the world.
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这要归功于世界范围内的新科学技术
12:11
And I agree. It is largely wonderful. Largely wonderful.
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这一点，我同意。绝大部分都是美妙的。绝大部分。
12:17
But among all those ideas that inevitably flow out into the whole world
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可是，当它们无可避免，传遍世界时
12:25
thanks to our technology, are a lot of toxic ideas.
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也夹带着有毒思想--同样归功于我们的科技。
12:30
Now, this has been realized for some time.
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这已经发生一段时间了
12:33
Sayyid Qutb is one of the founding fathers of fanatical Islam,
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萨伊德·库（Sayyid Qutb）是狂热伊斯兰教的创始人之一
12:39
one of the ideologues that inspired Osama bin Laden.
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也是奥萨马·本拉登的灵感源泉之一
12:44
"One has only to glance at its press films, fashion shows, beauty contests,
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“看看新闻、电影、时装表演、选美比赛
12:49
ballrooms, wine bars and broadcasting stations." Memes.
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舞会大厅、葡萄酒吧和广播电台”。模因。
12:55
These memes are spreading around the world
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模因正遍及世界
12:59
and they are wiping out whole cultures.
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整个儿地消灭文化
13:04
They are wiping out languages.
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消灭语言
13:06
They are wiping out traditions and practices.
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消灭传统和习俗。
13:11
And it's not our fault, anymore than it's our fault when our germs lay waste
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这不能怪我们，正如我们的细菌摧毁原住民
13:19
to people that haven't developed the immunity.
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也不是我们的错
13:22
We have an immunity to all of the junk that lies around the edges of our culture.
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对自己文化边缘的各种破烂货，我们都有免疫
13:28
We're a free society, so we let pornography and all these things -- we shrug them off.
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我们是自由的社会，色情这些东西，我们也不在乎
13:34
They're like a mild cold.
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就像感冒发烧一样
13:36
They're not a big deal for us.
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没什么大不了
13:38
But we should recognize that for many people in the world,
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但我们应当意识到，对于世界上很多人
13:42
they are a big deal.
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这可是至关重要的
13:46
And we should be very alert to this.
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我们应该保持警惕
13:49
As we spread our education and our technology,
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传播科技、教育时
13:52
one of the things that we are doing is we're the vectors of memes
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我们成了模因的媒介生物
14:00
that are correctly viewed by the hosts of many other memes
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其他寄主正确地视我们为敌
14:06
as a dire threat to their favorite memes --
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他们模因的可怕敌人
14:09
the memes that they are prepared to die for.
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他们最爱的、为之献身的模因
14:12
Well now, how are we going to tell the good memes from the bad memes?
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如何区分模因的好坏呢？
14:16
That is not the job of the science of memetics.
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这并不是模因学的工作
14:21
Memetics is morally neutral. And so it should be.
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模因学在道德上是中性的。并且理应如此。
14:27
This is not the place for hate and anger.
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这里没有爱恨。
14:31
If you've had a friend who's died of AIDS, then you hate HIV.
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若朋友死于艾滋病，你会恨HIV
14:36
But the way to deal with that is to do science,
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但对付病毒的，是科学
14:40
and understand how it spreads and why in a morally neutral perspective.
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从中立的角度，探究病毒为何、如何传播
14:47
Get the facts.
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实事求是
14:49
Work out the implications.
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探明含义
14:53
There's plenty of room for moral passion once we've got the facts
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有了事实，道德情感自然有发挥的空间
14:57
and can figure out the best thing to do.
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然后再决定应该做什么
14:59
And, as with germs, the trick is not to try to annihilate them.
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对于细菌，秘诀在于，不要试图消灭它们
15:04
You will never annihilate the germs.
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你永远消灭不了细菌
15:07
What you can do, however, is foster public health measures and the like
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你能做的，就是加强公共卫生之类的措施
15:13
that will encourage the evolution of avirulence.
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鼓励病原性的进化
15:19
That will encourage the spread of relatively benign mutations
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鼓励毒性最强的变种
15:26
of the most toxic varieties.
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进行良性的变异
15:29
That's all the time I have,
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我的时间就这么多
15:32
so thank you very much for your attention.
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非常感谢你们的关注
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Dan Dennett - Philosopher, cognitive scientistDan Dennett thinks that human consciousness and free will are the result of physical processes.
Why you should listen
One of our most important living philosophers, Dan Dennett is best known for his provocative and controversial arguments that human consciousness and free will are the result of physical processes in the brain. He argues that the brain's computational circuitry fools us into thinking we know more than we do, and that what we call consciousness — isn't. His 2003 book "Freedom Evolves" explores how our brains evolved to give us -- and only us -- the kind of freedom that matters, while 2006's "Breaking the Spell" examines belief through the lens of biology.
This mind-shifting perspective on the mind itself has distinguished Dennett's career as a philosopher and cognitive scientist. And while the philosophy community has never quite known what to make of Dennett (he defies easy categorization, and refuses to affiliate himself with accepted schools of thought), his computational approach to understanding the brain has made him, as Edge's John Brockman writes, “the philosopher of choice of the AI community.”
“It's tempting to say that Dennett has never met a robot he didn't like, and that what he likes most about them is that they are philosophical experiments,” Harry Blume wrote in the Atlantic Monthly in 1998. “To the question of whether machines can attain high-order intelligence, Dennett makes this provocative answer: ‘The best reason for believing that robots might some day become conscious is that we human beings are conscious, and we are a sort of robot ourselves.'"
In recent years, Dennett has become outspoken in his atheism, and his 2006 book Breaking the Spell calls for religion to be studied through the scientific lens of evolutionary biology. Dennett regards religion as a natural -- rather than supernatural -- phenomenon, and urges schools to break the taboo against empirical examination of religion. He argues that religion's influence over human behavior is precisely what makes gaining a rational understanding of it so necessary: “If we don't understand religion, we're going to miss our chance to improve the world in the 21st century.”
Dennett's landmark books include The Mind's I, co-edited with Douglas Hofstaedter, Consciousness Explained, and Darwin's Dangerous Idea. Read an excerpt from his 2013 book, Intuition Pumps, in the Guardian >>
Dan Dennett | Speaker | TED.com