TED2002
Dan Dennett: Dangerous memes
丹尼爾•丹尼特談危險的模因
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從一隻螞蟻的小故事說起，哲學家丹•丹尼特用摧枯拉朽的思想共鳴，有力地辯護了活著的思想—模因—的存在。
Dan Dennett - Philosopher, cognitive scientist
Dan Dennett thinks that human consciousness and free will are the result of physical processes. Full bio
Dan Dennett thinks that human consciousness and free will are the result of physical processes. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:25
How many Creationists do we have in the room?
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我們這兒有多少神創論者？
00:28
Probably none. I think we're all Darwinians.
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可能沒有。估計在座都是達爾文主義者。
00:31
And yet many Darwinians are anxious, a little uneasy --
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不過，許多達爾文主義者都有點急切不安，
00:38
would like to see some limits on just how far the Darwinism goes.
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想看看達爾文主義的極限，看它到底能走多遠。
00:43
It's all right.
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這沒有問題。
00:45
You know spiderwebs? Sure, they are products of evolution.
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你們知道蜘蛛網嗎？當然了，這是進化來的。
00:49
The World Wide Web? Not so sure.
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全球資訊網呢？不太確定。
00:53
Beaver dams, yes. Hoover Dam, no.
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水獺壩，是。 胡佛大壩，不是。
00:55
What do they think it is that prevents the products of human ingenuity
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到底是什麼讓人認為人類的機靈智巧
01:01
from being themselves, fruits of the tree of life,
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不會是生命樹上長出來的果實
01:04
and hence, in some sense, obeying evolutionary rules?
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因此在某種意義上並不遵守進化的法則呢？
01:10
And yet people are interestingly resistant
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然而有趣的是，人們抵制這樣的想法：
01:14
to the idea of applying evolutionary thinking to thinking -- to our thinking.
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抵制把進化論應用到思維上—應用到我們的思維上。
01:21
And so I'm going to talk a little bit about that,
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我將對此發表一些看法，
01:25
keeping in mind that we have a lot on the program here.
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同時提醒自己，節目上還有許多其他的東西。
01:29
So you're out in the woods, or you're out in the pasture,
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你到森林裏或到田園中，
01:33
and you see this ant crawling up this blade of grass.
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你看見一隻螞蟻爬上一片草葉。
01:36
It climbs up to the top, and it falls,
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它爬到頂上，又落下來，
01:39
and it climbs, and it falls, and it climbs --
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然後又爬到頂，又落下來，然後又再爬—
01:42
trying to stay at the very top of the blade of grass.
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總想停留在草葉的最尖端
01:46
What is this ant doing? What is this in aid of?
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它在幹嘛？它想做什麼？
01:51
What goals is this ant trying to achieve by climbing this blade of grass?
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試圖爬到草葉尖端，它想達到什麼目的？
01:58
What's in it for the ant?
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這對它有什麼好處呢？
02:00
And the answer is: nothing. There's nothing in it for the ant.
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答案是：沒有。對它而言，什麼好處也沒有。
02:06
Well then, why is it doing this?
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那為什麼要這樣做呢？
02:09
Is it just a fluke?
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那只是碰巧嗎？
02:11
Yeah, it's just a fluke. It's a lancet fluke.
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沒錯，正是碰巧，碰巧是枝雙腔吸蟲。
02:18
It's a little brain worm.
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在大腦裏的小蟲。
02:20
It's a parasitic brain worm that has to get into the stomach of a sheep or a cow
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這種大腦裏的蟲要鑽進羊或牛的肚子裏，
02:25
in order to continue its life cycle.
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好繼續它的生命週期。
02:28
Salmon swim upstream to get to their spawning grounds,
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三文魚逆流而上要到產卵場，
02:33
and lancet flukes commandeer a passing ant,
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枝雙腔吸蟲霸佔一隻路過的螞蟻，
02:37
crawl into its brain, and drive it up a blade of grass like an all-terrain vehicle.
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爬進它的大腦，像駕著越野車，使它爬上草葉頂端。
02:42
So there's nothing in it for the ant.
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因此對螞蟻來說，什麼好處都沒有。
02:46
The ant's brain has been hijacked by a parasite that infects the brain,
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這隻螞蟻的大腦被寄生蟲劫持了，
02:54
inducing suicidal behavior.
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導致它的自殺行為。
02:58
Pretty scary.
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相當可怕。
03:00
Well, does anything like that happen with human beings?
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那麼，類似的事情會發生在人的身上嗎？
03:05
This is all on behalf of a cause other than one's own genetic fitness, of course.
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這種事情當然不會是順著人的基因特性而發生的。
03:10
Well, it may already have occurred to you
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你可能已經想到
03:15
that Islam means "surrender," or "submission of self-interest to the will of Allah."
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「伊斯蘭」即是「服從」，或是說「為服從真主的意志而放棄自我利益」。
03:25
Well, it's ideas -- not worms -- that hijack our brains.
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劫持我們大腦的是思想，不是蟲子。
03:31
Now, am I saying that a sizable minority of the world's population
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那我是不是在說，世界人口的一小部分
03:36
has had their brain hijacked by parasitic ideas?
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大腦已經被寄生思想劫持了呢？
03:43
No, it's worse than that.
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不是，比這還糟糕呢。
03:45
Most people have.
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大部分的人都已經被劫持了。
03:49
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
03:53
There are a lot of ideas to die for.
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有許多思想會教人獻身。
03:55
Freedom, if you're from New Hampshire.
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比方說自由—如果你來自新罕布夏的話。
03:58
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:02
Justice. Truth. Communism.
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正義、真理、共產主義。
04:06
Many people have laid down their lives for communism,
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許多人為共產主義捐軀，
04:09
and many have laid down their lives for capitalism.
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也有許多人為資本主義捐軀。
04:12
And many for Catholicism. And many for Islam.
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許多人為天主教獻身，也有許多為伊斯蘭。
04:16
These are just a few of the ideas that are to die for.
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這些只是一小部分會教人獻身的思想。
04:21
They're infectious.
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它們都具有傳染性。
04:24
Yesterday, Amory Lovins spoke about "infectious repititis."
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昨天，阿莫銳•陸文斯提到「傳染性的複製品」。
04:28
It was a term of abuse, in effect.
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那其實是個貶義詞。
04:31
This is unthinking engineering.
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是未經思考的工程設計。
04:33
Well, most of the cultural spread that goes on
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瞧，大部分文化的傳播
04:37
is not brilliant, new, out-of-the-box thinking.
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並非什麼了不得、嶄新、開箱即用的思想。
04:41
It's "infectious repetitis,"
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都只是傳染性的複製品。
04:43
and we might as well try to have a theory of what's going on when that happens
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也許可以找出一套解釋發生這種現象的理論，
04:48
so that we can understand the conditions of infection.
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讓人能理解傳染性所需的條件。
04:54
Hosts work hard to spread these ideas to others.
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寄主努力傳播那些思想給他人。
05:01
I myself am a philosopher, and one of our occupational hazards
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我自己是個哲學家，我們這行的公害之一
05:07
is that people ask us what the meaning of life is.
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即是總有人要問我們生命的意義是什麼。
05:11
And you have to have a bumper sticker,
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大家知道，你得在防撞桿上貼一張貼紙，
05:14
you know. You have to have a statement.
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你得貼上某種宣言式的東西。
05:17
So, this is mine.
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好，我的是這個。
05:19
The secret of happiness is: Find something more important than you are
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幸福的秘密在於：尋找某種比你更重要的東西，
05:23
and dedicate your life to it.
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並將生命投入其中。
05:25
Most of us -- now that the "Me Decade" is well in the past --
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我們之中的大多數—「我」的時代已經過去了—
05:29
now we actually do this.
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都確實身體力行。
05:31
One set of ideas or another
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這一套或那一套理論
05:34
have simply replaced our biological imperatives in our own lives.
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取代了我們生命中的生物性使命。
05:38
This is what our summum bonum is.
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這是我們存在的最高價值。
05:41
It's not maximizing the number of grandchildren we have.
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不在於金玉滿堂。
05:44
Now, this is a profound biological effect.
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請注意，這是意義深刻的生物性效應。
05:48
It's the subordination of genetic interest to other interests.
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這是基因利益對其他利益的屈服。
05:51
And no other species does anything at all like it.
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沒有任何其他物種會這麼做。
05:55
Well, how are we going to think about this?
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那我們對此該作何感想？
05:57
It is, on the one hand, a biological effect, and a very large one.
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這一方面是生物性的效應，影響很大。
06:01
Unmistakable.
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毫無疑問。
06:03
Now, what theories do we want to use to look at this?
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我們用什麼理論來探查它呢？
06:06
Well, many theories. But how could something tie them together?
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嗯，不少呢。但如何一言以蔽之呢？
06:09
The idea of replicating ideas;
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那就是「複制思想」的概念，
06:12
ideas that replicate by passing from brain to brain.
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即傳遞於大腦之間而得到複製的那些思想。
06:17
Richard Dawkins, whom you'll be hearing later in the day, invented the term "memes,"
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你們今天稍後會聽到理查•道金斯的演講，他發明「模因」這個詞，
06:22
and put forward the first really clear and vivid version of this idea
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而且是在他的《自私的基因》這本書裏第一個清晰生動地
06:27
in his book "The Selfish Gene."
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闡釋這個概念的人。
06:29
Now here am I talking about his idea.
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我在這裏說他的思想。
06:32
Well, you see, it's not his. Yes -- he started it.
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當然也知道這已經不是他的了。沒錯—他是思想的創始人。
06:38
But it's everybody's idea now.
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但這個思想現在已經是所有人的。
06:41
And he's not responsible for what I say about memes.
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他不必為我所說的模因負責。
06:45
I'm responsible for what I say about memes.
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我所說的模因由我自己負責。
06:50
Actually, I think we're all responsible
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事實上，我認為我們都要負責，
06:53
for not just the intended effects of our ideas,
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不僅要為我們的思想所要達到的效果負責，
06:59
but for their likely misuses.
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也要為它們可能會被誤用而負責。
07:03
So it is important, I think, to Richard, and to me,
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所以我想，對我和理查（道金斯）重要的是，
07:07
that these ideas not be abused and misused.
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確保這些想法不會被濫用或被誤用。
07:11
They're very easy to misuse. That's why they're dangerous.
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它們很容易被誤用。這也是它們的危險之處。
07:14
And it's just about a full-time job
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這幾乎是一份全職的工作：
07:17
trying to prevent people who are scared of these ideas
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要防止害怕這些想法的人
07:20
from caricaturing them and then running off to one dire purpose or another.
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醜化這些思想，然後嚇跑了，去做出一件又一件可怕的事。
07:28
So we have to keep plugging away,
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所以我們必須堅持不懈，
07:31
trying to correct the misapprehensions
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不斷試圖矯正各種誤解，
07:33
so that only the benign and useful variants of our ideas continue to spread.
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確保只有在我們思想中有用的、無害的部分得到傳播。
07:41
But it is a problem.
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但這是個問題。
07:45
We don't have much time, and I'm going to go over just a little bit of this and cut out,
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我們的時間不多了，所以我只說一點就打住，
07:50
because there's a lot of other things that are going to be said.
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因為我還有許多其他的東西要說。
07:53
So let me just point out: memes are like viruses.
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那麼讓我指出：模因如同病毒。
07:58
That's what Richard said, back in '93.
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這是理查93年就說過的。
08:00
And you might think, "Well, how can that be?
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你可能會想：這怎麼可能？
08:02
I mean, a virus is -- you know, it's stuff! What's a meme made of?"
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我是說大家都知道，病毒是「物質」！模因是什麼構成的呢？
08:09
Yesterday, Negroponte was talking about viral telecommunications
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昨天，尼葛洛龐帝提到病毒電子通訊，
08:14
but -- what's a virus?
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可是—病毒是什麼？
08:15
A virus is a string of nucleic acid with attitude.
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病毒是一串具有態度的核酸。
08:19
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
08:20
That is, there is something about it
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也就是說， 它具有某種東西，
08:22
that tends to make it replicate better than the competition does.
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這東西使它在複製的競賽中脫穎而出。
08:26
And that's what a meme is. It's an information packet with attitude.
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這也就是模因，它是一包有態度的資訊。
08:30
What's a meme made of? What are bits made of, Mom?
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模因是什麼構成的呢？「媽，比特是什麼構成的呢？」
08:36
Not silicon.
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反正不是矽。
08:38
They're made of information, and can be carried in any physical medium.
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它們是資訊構成的，載體可以是任何物理媒介。
08:42
What's a word made of?
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單詞是什麼構成的呢？
08:44
Sometimes when people say, "Do memes exist?"
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有時會有人問：「模因存在嗎？」
08:49
I say, "Well, do words exist? Are they in your ontology?"
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我說：「單詞存在嗎？它們存在於你的存有論中嗎？」
08:53
If they are, words are memes that can be pronounced.
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若是存在，那麼單詞就是可以被發出聲音的模因。
08:58
Then there's all the other memes that can't be pronounced.
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那麼也有其他不能被發出聲音的模因。
09:01
There are different species of memes.
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它們是模因中的不同物種。
09:09
Remember the Shakers? Gift to be simple?
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還記得震教徒嗎？天賦簡樸？
09:13
Simple, beautiful furniture?
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簡單而漂亮的傢俱？
09:16
And, of course, they're basically extinct now.
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當然了，他們基本上已經滅絕了。
09:19
And one of the reasons is that among the creed of Shaker-dom
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其中一個原因是，他們的信條之中
09:25
is that one should be celibate.
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有一條要求獨身。
09:27
Not just the priests. Everybody.
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不光是牧師，所有的人都要。
09:29
Well, it's not so surprising that they've gone extinct. (Laughter)
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嗯，難怪他們滅絕了（笑聲）
09:37
But in fact that's not why they went extinct.
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事實上，這不是他們消失的原因。
09:42
They survived as long as they did
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他們維持了很久。
09:45
at a time when the social safety nets weren't there.
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那時候還沒有社會保障制度，
09:47
And there were lots of widows and orphans,
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有許多鰥夫寡婦和孤兒，
09:50
people like that, who needed a foster home.
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像這樣需要被收容的人。
09:53
And so they had a ready supply of converts.
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因此他們有一個皈依信徒的供應鏈。
09:56
And they could keep it going.
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所以他們能夠繼續存在。
09:58
And, in principle, it could've gone on forever,
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理論上可以直到永遠。
10:00
with perfect celibacy on the part of the hosts.
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儘管寄主們都是獨身的，
10:03
The idea being passed on through proselytizing,
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思想經由皈依得到傳遞，
10:08
instead of through the gene line.
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不是經由基因遺傳，
10:13
So the ideas can live on in spite of the fact
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因此思想可以一直傳播下去，
10:17
that they're not being passed on genetically.
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儘管並不經由遺傳。
10:20
A meme can flourish in spite of having a negative impact on genetic fitness.
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即使模因對基因的適應性有負面影響，還是能夠繁衍；
10:24
After all, the meme for Shaker-dom was essentially a sterilizing parasite.
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畢竟震教徒們的模因，本質上是令人絕育的寄生蟲。
10:33
There are other parasites that do this -- which render the host sterile.
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還有許多這種讓寄主不育的寄生蟲。
10:40
It's part of their plan.
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它們的計畫就是如此。
10:42
They don't have to have minds to have a plan.
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它們不需要心靈來做計畫。
10:47
I'm just going to draw your attention to just one
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從觀察模因的角度來看，在其眾多的意涵中，
10:52
of the many implications of the memetic perspective, which I recommend.
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我只指出一個我認為必須留意的意涵。
11:01
I've not time to go into more of it.
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我沒有時間多說。
11:03
In Jared Diamond's wonderful book, "Guns, Germs and Steel,"
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在賈雷德•戴蒙德《槍炮，細菌和鋼鐵》這本奇書中，
11:07
he talks about how it was germs, more than guns and steel,
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他談到為什麼是細菌，而非槍炮和鋼鐵
11:13
that conquered the new hemisphere -- the Western hemisphere --
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征服了新半球—也就是西半球—
11:18
that conquered the rest of the world.
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然後西半球又征服了世界的其他部分。
11:20
When European explorers and travelers spread out,
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當歐洲的探險家和旅行者們分散出去，
11:27
they brought with them the germs
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他們隨身帶去
11:29
that they had become essentially immune to,
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他們已經形成免疫力的細菌；
11:32
that they had learned how to tolerate over
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好幾百、上千年來，他們已經學會了
11:35
hundreds and hundreds of years, thousands of years,
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和那些細菌相安無事；
11:38
of living with domesticated animals who were the sources of those pathogens.
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他們和帶有病原體的馴養動物一起生活，
11:43
And they just wiped out -- these pathogens just wiped out the native people,
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然後它們—那些病原體—徹底摧毀了原住民
11:48
who had no immunity to them at all.
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因為原住民對它們毫無免疫力
11:51
And we're doing it again.
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現在我們又在做同樣的事
11:55
We're doing it this time with toxic ideas.
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這次我們用的是有毒的思想。
12:00
Yesterday, a number of people -- Nicholas Negroponte and others --
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昨天，尼古拉斯•尼葛洛龐帝等人
12:04
spoke about all the wonderful things
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說到這些奇妙的事情，
12:06
that are happening when our ideas get spread out,
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這些在思想傳播出去時會發生的事情。
12:09
thanks to all the new technology all over the world.
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這要歸功於整個世界的新科學技術。
12:11
And I agree. It is largely wonderful. Largely wonderful.
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這點我同意；絕大部分都是美妙的—絕大部分。
12:17
But among all those ideas that inevitably flow out into the whole world
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可是，當它們無可避免地傳遍全世界時，
12:25
thanks to our technology, are a lot of toxic ideas.
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也夾帶大量有毒的思想—同樣歸功於我們的科技。
12:30
Now, this has been realized for some time.
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這已經發生一段時間了。
12:33
Sayyid Qutb is one of the founding fathers of fanatical Islam,
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薩伊德•庫是狂熱伊斯蘭教的創始人之一，
12:39
one of the ideologues that inspired Osama bin Laden.
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也是奧薩馬•賓拉登的靈感源泉之一。
12:44
"One has only to glance at its press films, fashion shows, beauty contests,
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「看看他們的新聞、電影、時裝表演、選美比賽、
12:49
ballrooms, wine bars and broadcasting stations." Memes.
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舞會大廳、葡萄酒吧和廣播電臺」。這些是模因。
12:55
These memes are spreading around the world
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模因正傳遍全世界，
12:59
and they are wiping out whole cultures.
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消滅整個整個的文化，
13:04
They are wiping out languages.
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消滅語言，
13:06
They are wiping out traditions and practices.
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消滅傳統和習俗。
13:11
And it's not our fault, anymore than it's our fault when our germs lay waste
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這不能怪我們，正如同我們的細菌摧毀原住民那樣，
13:19
to people that haven't developed the immunity.
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也不是我們的錯。
13:22
We have an immunity to all of the junk that lies around the edges of our culture.
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對我們自己文化邊緣的各種破銅爛鐵，我們都具有免疫力。
13:28
We're a free society, so we let pornography and all these things -- we shrug them off.
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我們是自由的社會，色情等等東西，我們不在乎。
13:34
They're like a mild cold.
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那些東西像是輕微的感冒。
13:36
They're not a big deal for us.
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沒什麼大不了。
13:38
But we should recognize that for many people in the world,
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但我們應當意識到，對世界上許多人而言，
13:42
they are a big deal.
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這可是至關重要的。
13:46
And we should be very alert to this.
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我們應該保持高度警惕，
13:49
As we spread our education and our technology,
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在我們傳播教育和科技時，
13:52
one of the things that we are doing is we're the vectors of memes
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我們就成了模因的帶原媒介，
14:00
that are correctly viewed by the hosts of many other memes
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其他模因的寄主們當然要將我們視為敵人，
14:06
as a dire threat to their favorite memes --
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嚴重威脅到他們所愛之模因的敵人—
14:09
the memes that they are prepared to die for.
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那是他們願意為之捐軀獻身的模因。
14:12
Well now, how are we going to tell the good memes from the bad memes?
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那麼，如何區分模因的好壞呢？
14:16
That is not the job of the science of memetics.
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這並不是模因學的工作。
14:21
Memetics is morally neutral. And so it should be.
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模因學在道德上是中性的，而且理應如此。
14:27
This is not the place for hate and anger.
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這裏沒有喜怒愛憎。
14:31
If you've had a friend who's died of AIDS, then you hate HIV.
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如果你有朋友死于愛滋，你會恨HIV。
14:36
But the way to deal with that is to do science,
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但對付病毒要用科學的方法，
14:40
and understand how it spreads and why in a morally neutral perspective.
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從中立的角度，探究病毒為何、如何傳播，
14:47
Get the facts.
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實事求是，
14:49
Work out the implications.
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探明意涵；
14:53
There's plenty of room for moral passion once we've got the facts
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有了事實，道德情感自然有發揮的空間，
14:57
and can figure out the best thing to do.
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然後再決定該做什麼。
14:59
And, as with germs, the trick is not to try to annihilate them.
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對於細菌，秘訣在於不要試圖消滅它們。
15:04
You will never annihilate the germs.
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你永遠消滅不了細菌。
15:07
What you can do, however, is foster public health measures and the like
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你能做的就是加強公共衛生之類的措施，
15:13
that will encourage the evolution of avirulence.
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那會激勵病毒毒性的演化。
15:19
That will encourage the spread of relatively benign mutations
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那會激勵毒性最烈的病毒只散播出
15:26
of the most toxic varieties.
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毒性較弱的變種。
15:29
That's all the time I have,
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我的時間就到此為止，
15:32
so thank you very much for your attention.
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非常感謝各位的聆聽。
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Dan Dennett - Philosopher, cognitive scientistDan Dennett thinks that human consciousness and free will are the result of physical processes.
Why you should listen
One of our most important living philosophers, Dan Dennett is best known for his provocative and controversial arguments that human consciousness and free will are the result of physical processes in the brain. He argues that the brain's computational circuitry fools us into thinking we know more than we do, and that what we call consciousness — isn't. His 2003 book "Freedom Evolves" explores how our brains evolved to give us -- and only us -- the kind of freedom that matters, while 2006's "Breaking the Spell" examines belief through the lens of biology.
This mind-shifting perspective on the mind itself has distinguished Dennett's career as a philosopher and cognitive scientist. And while the philosophy community has never quite known what to make of Dennett (he defies easy categorization, and refuses to affiliate himself with accepted schools of thought), his computational approach to understanding the brain has made him, as Edge's John Brockman writes, “the philosopher of choice of the AI community.”
“It's tempting to say that Dennett has never met a robot he didn't like, and that what he likes most about them is that they are philosophical experiments,” Harry Blume wrote in the Atlantic Monthly in 1998. “To the question of whether machines can attain high-order intelligence, Dennett makes this provocative answer: ‘The best reason for believing that robots might some day become conscious is that we human beings are conscious, and we are a sort of robot ourselves.'"
In recent years, Dennett has become outspoken in his atheism, and his 2006 book Breaking the Spell calls for religion to be studied through the scientific lens of evolutionary biology. Dennett regards religion as a natural -- rather than supernatural -- phenomenon, and urges schools to break the taboo against empirical examination of religion. He argues that religion's influence over human behavior is precisely what makes gaining a rational understanding of it so necessary: “If we don't understand religion, we're going to miss our chance to improve the world in the 21st century.”
Dennett's landmark books include The Mind's I, co-edited with Douglas Hofstaedter, Consciousness Explained, and Darwin's Dangerous Idea. Read an excerpt from his 2013 book, Intuition Pumps, in the Guardian >>
Dan Dennett | Speaker | TED.com