TEDGlobal 2011
Cynthia Kenyon: Experiments that hint of longer lives
辛西娅·肯尼娅：昭示长寿的实验
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什么控制着衰老？生物化学家辛西娅·肯尼娅找到了一个变异基因，可以使秀丽隐杆线虫的寿命延长一倍。这项发现和其他发现一起，昭示出我们也许有一天能够显著延长人类青年期的寿命。
Cynthia Kenyon - Biochemist, geneticist
When it comes to aging well, having “good genes” (or rather, mutant ones) is key, says Cynthia Kenyon. She unlocked the genetic secret of longevity in roundworms — and now she’s working to do the same for humans. Full bio
When it comes to aging well, having “good genes” (or rather, mutant ones) is key, says Cynthia Kenyon. She unlocked the genetic secret of longevity in roundworms — and now she’s working to do the same for humans. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
Have you ever wanted to stay young a little longer
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大家有没有想过要年轻再久一点
00:18
and put off aging?
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延缓衰老呢？
00:20
This is a dream of the ages.
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这是很久以来的梦想了
00:23
But scientists have for a long time
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不过科学家以前一直认为
00:25
thought this just was never going to be possible.
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这大概根本永远不可能
00:27
They thought you just wear out, there's nothing you can do about it --
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他们认为每个人就是慢慢被消耗这个事实没办法改变
00:30
kind of like an old shoe.
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就像被磨损的旧鞋子
00:32
But if you look in nature,
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不过转而观察大自然的话
00:34
you see that different kinds of animals
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我们发现不同种的动物
00:36
can have really different lifespans.
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寿命差异可以非常之大
00:38
Now these animals are different from one another,
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这些动物彼此不一样
00:40
because they have different genes.
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是因为它们有不同的基因
00:42
So that suggests
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这就启发我们
00:44
that somewhere in these genes, somewhere in the DNA,
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在这些基因里的某个地方，在DNA里面
00:46
are genes for aging,
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有控制衰老的基因
00:48
genes that allow them to have different lifespans.
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让动物们有不同的寿命期
00:50
So if there are genes like that,
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所以有这样的基因
00:52
then you can imagine that,
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我们就能想像到
00:54
if you could change one of the genes in an experiment,
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如果我们通过实验改变一个基因
00:56
an aging gene,
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那个衰老基因
00:58
maybe you could slow down aging and extend lifespan.
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说不定就可以延缓衰老，延长寿命
01:01
And if you could do that, then you could find the genes for aging.
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如果这样做了，就可以找到那些衰老基因
01:04
And if they exist and you can find them,
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如果这些衰老基因真的存在并且能找到
01:06
then maybe one could eventually do something about it.
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那也许有人就能对它做点什么
01:09
So we've set out to look for genes that control aging.
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所以我们就开始寻找那些控制衰老的基因
01:12
And we didn't study any of these animals.
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不过我们没有研究刚才那些动物
01:15
Instead, we studied a little, tiny, round worm called C. elegans,
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而是研究一种小小圆圆的蠕虫，叫做秀丽隐杆线虫
01:18
which is just about the size of a comma in a sentence.
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大小刚好和句子里面逗号的大小差不多
01:21
And we were really optimistic that we could find something
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我们很有信心能找到相关的基因
01:24
because there had been a report of a long-lived mutant.
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因为曾经有种长寿变异的个体记录在案
01:27
So we started to change genes at random,
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所以我们就随机改变线虫的基因
01:29
looking for long-lived animals.
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寻找长寿的那些
01:31
And we were very lucky to find
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结果我们很幸运地发现
01:33
that mutations that damage one single gene called daf-2
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损坏单个基因daf-2的这种变异
01:37
doubled the lifespan of the little worm.
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能让这种小虫的寿命翻倍
01:40
So you can see in black, after a month --
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所以能看到这条黑色曲线，一个月以后--
01:42
they're very short-lived; that's why we like to study them
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这些线虫的寿命很短，这就是为什么我们用它们来做
01:44
for studies of aging --
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寿命的研究--
01:46
in black, after a month, the normal worms are all dead.
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黑色曲线表示一个月以后，正常线虫都死亡了
01:49
But at that time,
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但是同时
01:51
most of the mutant worms are still alive.
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大部分变异线虫还活着
01:53
And it isn't until twice as long
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直到又过了同样长的时间
01:55
that they're all dead.
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它们才死亡
01:57
And now I want to show what they actually look like in this movie here.
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现在我来用视频演示线虫真正是什么样子
02:00
So the first thing you're going to see
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首先这里看到的
02:02
is the normal worm
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是正常的线虫
02:04
when it's about college student age -- a young adult.
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大概在我们大学生的年龄--青年人的年龄
02:07
It's quite a cute little fellow.
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很可爱的小家伙
02:10
And next you're going to see the long-lived mutant when it's young.
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下面你将看到年轻的长寿变异体
02:13
So this animal is going to live twice as long.
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它会活到正常线虫两倍的年龄
02:15
Is it miserable? It doesn't seem to be.
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很可怜吧？其实不是
02:17
It's active. You can't tell the difference really.
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它相当活跃，和正常线虫几乎看不出区别
02:20
And they can be completely fertile --
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而且它们也有繁殖能力--
02:22
have the same number of progeny as the normal worms do.
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后代的数目可以和正常线虫的一样多
02:24
Now get out your handkerchiefs here.
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现在准备拿出手绢来擦眼泪吧
02:26
You're going to see, in just two weeks,
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你会看到，就在仅仅两周之后
02:28
the normal worms are old.
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正常的线虫就老了
02:30
You can see the little head moving down at the bottom there.
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可以看见它的头在屏幕下面，在动
02:33
But everything else is just lying there.
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但是其它部位就只是躺在那儿不动
02:35
The animal's clearly in the nursing home.
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它显然已经在老人院了
02:37
And if you look at the tissues of the animal, they're starting to deteriorate.
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再看它的身体组织，能看到已经老化了
02:40
You know, even if you've never seen one of these little C. elegans --
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你看，就算从来没见过秀丽隐杆线虫--
02:42
which probably most of you haven't seen one --
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多数人应该是没见过--
02:44
you can tell they're old -- isn't that interesting?
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你就知道它们老了--这不是很有意思吗？
02:47
So there's something about aging that's kind of universal.
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衰老这件事是有普世性的
02:50
And now here is the daf-2 mutant.
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现在这个是daf-2变异体
02:53
One gene is changed out of 20,000, and look at it.
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20000个基因里只改变了一个，看
02:55
It's the same age, but it's not in the nursing home;
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年龄是一样的，但是它不在养老院里
02:58
it's going skiing.
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它看起来在滑雪
03:01
This is what's really cool: it's aging more slowly.
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这就是最酷的地方：它衰老得更慢
03:04
It takes this worm two days
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达到正常线虫衰老一天的程度
03:06
to age as much as the normal worm ages in one day.
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它们需要两天时间
03:08
And when I tell people about this,
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而我告诉其他人这件事的时候
03:10
they tend to think of maybe an 80 or 90 year-old person
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他们认为也许这就像一个八九十岁的人
03:14
who looks really good for being 90 or 80.
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看起来身体仍然硬朗一样
03:16
But it's really more like this:
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但是其实更像这样：
03:18
let's say you're a 30 year-old guy -- or in your 30s --
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如果你是个30岁、30多岁的单身汉
03:21
and you're a bachelor and you're dating people.
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你去和别人约会
03:23
And you meet someone you really like, you get to know her.
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然后你见到了一个中意的女孩，想多了解她
03:26
And you're in a restaurant, and you say, "Well how old are you?"
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在饭桌上，你问她，“你多大了？”
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She says, "I'm 60."
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她说，“我60岁”
03:31
That's what it's like. And you would never know.
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就像这样。你根本不知道
03:33
You would never know, until she told you.
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根本不知道她有多大，要不是她告诉你的话
03:35
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:39
Okay.
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好了
03:41
So what is the daf-2 gene?
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那么daf-2基因到底是什么？
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Well as you know, genes, which are part of the DNA,
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正如大家所知，基因是DNA的一部分
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they're instructions to make a protein that does something.
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它们是经编码的指令，用于制造特定功能的蛋白质
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And the daf-2 gene
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而daf-2基因的编码
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encodes a hormone receptor.
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对应了一类激素受体
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So what you see in the picture there
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图片上可以看到的是一个细胞
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is a cell with a hormone receptor in red
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以及红色的激素受体
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punching through the edge of the cell.
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插在细胞的边缘
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So part of it is like a baseball glove.
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受体的一部分就像棒球手套
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Part of it's on the outside,
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外面的部分伸出去
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and it's catching the hormone as it comes by in green.
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当绿色的激素靠近的时候抓住这个激素
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And the other part is on the inside
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另外的部分在细胞内
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where it sends signals into the cell.
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向细胞传递信号
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Okay, so what is the daf-2 receptor
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好了，那daf-2受体向细胞里
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telling the inside of the cell?
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传了什么样的信号？
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I just told you that, if you make a mutation in the daf-2 gene cell,
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我刚刚说过，如果突变细胞里的daf-2基因
04:15
that you get a receptor that doesn't work as well;
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就能得到一个功能不太给力的受体
04:17
the animal lives longer.
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并且动物的寿命变长
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So that means that the normal function of this hormone receptor
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这就意味着这个激素受体的正常功能
04:22
is to speed up aging.
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是加速衰老
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That's what that arrow means.
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就是图上箭头的意思
04:26
It speeds up aging. It makes it go faster.
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总之会让衰老来得更快
04:28
So it's like the animal has the grim reaper inside of itself,
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就好像动物的身体里有个死神
04:30
speeding up aging.
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一直在加速衰老
04:32
So this is altogether really, really interesting.
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总之这个结论就非常有趣了
04:35
It says that aging is subject to control by the genes,
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结论就是，衰老是受基因控制的
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and specifically by hormones.
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具体讲是受激素控制的
04:41
So what kind of hormones are these?
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这些激素又是什么样的激素呢？
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There's lots of hormones. There's testosterone, adrenalin.
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有很多种激素，比如睾酮和肾上腺素
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You know about a lot of them.
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你肯定知道很多
04:47
These hormones are similar
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这些激素和我们
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to hormones that we have in our bodies.
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身体里的激素差不多
04:51
The daf-2 hormone receptor
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daf-2激素受体
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is very similar to the receptor
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与胰岛素和IGF-1的受体
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for the hormone insulin and IGF-1.
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非常像
04:58
Now you've all heard of at least insulin.
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至少大家都听说过胰岛素
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Insulin is a hormone that promotes the uptake of nutrients
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胰岛素是一种激素，在饭后促进
05:03
into your tissues after you eat a meal.
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身体的组织吸收营养
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And the hormone IGF-1 promotes growth.
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而IGF-1这种激素促进生长
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So these functions were known for these hormones for a long time,
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这些激素的功能是我们长久以来就知道的
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but our studies suggested
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但是我们的研究似乎暗示
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that maybe they had a third function that nobody knew about --
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有可能有第三种我们未知的功能--
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maybe they also affect aging.
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或许也能影响衰老
05:17
And it's looking like that's the case.
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而且看起来似乎的确是这样
05:19
So after we made our discoveries with little C. elegans,
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所以在我们对秀丽隐杆线虫的小发现之后
05:22
people who worked on other kinds of animals
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研究其他动物的研究员提出问题
05:24
started asking, if we made the same daf-2 mutation,
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如果在其他动物身上造成同样的daf-2变异
05:27
the hormone receptor mutation, in other animals,
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也就是激素受体变异
05:30
will they live longer?
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它们也会更长寿吗？
05:32
And that is the case in flies.
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在苍蝇身上，是的
05:34
If you change this hormone pathway in flies, they live longer.
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如果改变苍蝇体内这种激素的传递方式，它们就会长寿
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And also in mice -- and mice are mammals like us.
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在老鼠身上也一样--而老鼠是像我们一样的哺乳动物
05:40
So it's an ancient pathway,
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所以其实这是一个古老原始的传递方式
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because it must have arisen a long time ago in evolution
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一定在很久以前的进化进程中就出现了
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such that it still works in all these animals.
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这样才会让所有动物身上都有这样的效应
05:47
And also, the common precursor also gave rise to people.
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而且，这些共同的实验前兆也引向到人类的衰老问题上
05:50
So maybe it's working in people the same way.
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所以或许在人类中也同样适用
05:52
And there are hints of this.
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确实有迹象表明这点
05:54
So for example, there was one study that was done
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比如，曾有人针对纽约市
05:56
in a population of Ashkenazi Jews in New York City.
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阿什肯纳兹犹太人做了研究
05:59
And just like any population,
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和其他人群一样
06:01
most of the people live to be about 70 or 80,
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大多数人活到70或80岁
06:04
but some live to be 90 or 100.
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但是有的人活到了90或100岁
06:06
And what they found
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研究人员发现
06:08
was that people who lived to 90 or 100
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活到90或100岁的人
06:11
were more likely to have daf-2 mutations --
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更有可能有daf-2变异--
06:14
that is, changes in the gene
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也就是说，编码了IGF-1受体
06:16
that encodes the receptor for IGF-1.
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的那段基因产生了变异
06:18
And these changes made the gene not act as well
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这些变异让基因行为与正常基因相比
06:23
as the normal gene would have acted.
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效果更弱一些
06:25
It damaged the gene.
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相当于基因受损了
06:27
So those are hints
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所以这些迹象
06:29
suggesting that humans are susceptible
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表明人类对于控制衰老的激素
06:31
to the effects of the hormones for aging.
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所带来的效果是很敏感的
06:33
So the next question, of course, is:
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所以接下来的问题当然就是
06:35
Is there any effect on age-related disease?
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这对与年龄相关的老龄病有影响吗？
06:38
As you age, you're much more likely
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因为当年龄变老的时候，我们就更可能
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to get cancer, Alzheimer's disease,
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患上癌症，老年痴呆症
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heart disease, all sorts of diseases.
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心脏病，等等一系列的疾病
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It turns out that these long-lived mutants
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结果这些长寿的变异体
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are more resistant to all these diseases.
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对于这些疾病更有抵抗能力
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They hardly get cancer,
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他们几乎不得癌症
06:50
and when they do it's not as severe.
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就算得了，也并不如本来应该的那样严重
06:52
So it's really interesting, and it makes sense in a way,
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所以这很有趣，而且这样想来确实有道理
06:54
that they're still young,
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他们的身体还年轻
06:56
so why would they be getting diseases of aging until their old?
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所以为什么只有到老年，他们会得衰老的一些疾病
07:00
So it suggests
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这就启发我们
07:02
that, if we could have a therapeutic or a pill to take
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如果有疗法或者药片
07:05
to replicate some of these effects in humans,
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来对人体复制这些减缓衰老的效应
07:07
maybe we would have a way
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也许我们就有办法
07:09
of combating lots of different age-related diseases
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一下子抵抗所有种类的
07:11
all at once.
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老龄病
07:13
So how can a hormone ultimately affect the rate of aging?
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那么，激素到底是怎样影响衰老的速度呢？
07:15
How could that work?
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原理是什么呢？
07:17
Well it turns out that in the daf-2 mutants,
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原来在daf-2变异体中
07:20
a whole lot of genes are switched on in the DNA
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有大量的基因被转变到DNA里面
07:23
that encode proteins that protect the cells and the tissues,
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蛋白质编码保护细胞和组织
07:26
and repair damage.
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和修复损坏基因的功能
07:28
And the way that they're switched on
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同时基因被转变的途径
07:31
is by a gene regulator protein called FOXO.
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是被一个基因调节器的蛋白质叫FOXO
07:34
So in a daf-2 mutant --
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所以在daf 2 的变异体中
07:36
you see that I have the X drawn here through the receptor.
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你可以看到这个X 型绘制图的受体
07:38
The receptor isn't working as well.
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这个受体也运转得不怎么好
07:40
Under those conditions, the FOXO protein in blue
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在这些条件下，蓝颜色的FOXO蛋白质
07:43
has gone into the nucleus --
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已经转移到核心里面了
07:45
that little compartment there in the middle of the cell --
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这个小小的隔室在细胞的最中间
07:47
and it's sitting down on a gene binding to it.
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同时也坐落在基因的粘合物上
07:49
You see one gene. There are lots of genes actually that bind on FOXO.
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你看到一个基因。这里有大量的基因实际上捆绑在FOXO上
07:51
And it's just sitting on one of them.
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并且坐落在它们其中的一个上面
07:53
So FOXO turns on a lot of genes.
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所以FOXO开启着大量的基因
07:55
And the genes it turns on includes antioxidant genes,
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同时这些基因也开启着抗氧化的基因
07:58
genes I call carrot-giver genes,
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这些基因我称呼它为胡萝卜者基因
08:00
whose protein products
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这些蛋白质产物
08:02
actually help other proteins to function well --
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实际上帮助其他的蛋白质的机能运转顺畅
08:04
to fold correctly and function correctly.
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同时也帮助蛋白质融合和运转准确
08:06
And it can also escort them to the garbage cans of the cell
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同时也给它们护航到细胞中的垃圾场
08:09
and recycle them if they're damaged.
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并且回收被损坏的蛋白质
08:11
DNA repair genes
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DNA修复基因
08:13
are more active in these animals.
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在这些动物身上更活跃
08:15
And the immune system is more active.
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免疫系统也更活跃
08:17
And many of these different genes, we've shown,
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我们展示的许多这些不同基因
08:20
actually contribute to the long lifespan of the daf-2 mutant.
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实际上都作用于daf 2变异体的延长寿命
08:23
So it's really interesting.
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所以这是很有趣的
08:25
These animals have within them
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带有这些基因的动物
08:27
the latent capacity to live much longer than they normally do.
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比起普通的有活得更久的潜力
08:30
They have the ability
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它们有能力
08:32
to protect themselves from many kinds of damage,
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保护自身免于很多的伤害
08:34
which we think makes them live longer.
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我们认为这使得它们活得更长
08:37
So what about the normal worm?
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那关于正常线虫呢
08:39
Well when the daf-2 receptor is active,
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当daf-2受体是活跃的
08:42
then it triggers a series of events
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它引发了一系列
08:44
that prevent FOXO
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来阻止FOXO
08:46
from getting into the nucleus where the DNA is.
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进入到DNA所处的中心
08:49
So it can't turn the genes on.
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所以基因不能激活
08:51
That's how it works. That's why we don't see the long lifespan,
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这就是运作的方式。也就是我们看不到延长寿命的原因
08:53
until we have the daf-2 mutant.
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除非有daf 2变异体
08:55
But what good is this for the worm?
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但对线虫来说有什么好处吗
08:57
Well we think that insulin and IGF-1 hormones
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胰岛素和IGF-1激素
09:00
are hormones that are particularly active
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是特别活跃
09:02
under favorable conditions -- in the good times --
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在有利条件下--好的时机下--
09:04
when food is plentiful and there's not a lot of stress in the environment.
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当食物是充足的，没有很多压力的环境下
09:07
Then they promote the uptake of nutrients.
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然后它们促使营养品的产生
09:09
You can store the food, use it for energy,
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可以储存食物，用它来补能量
09:12
grow, etc.
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成长等
09:14
But what we think is that, under conditions of stress,
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但我们认为在压力条件下
09:17
the levels of these hormones drop --
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这些激素水平会下降
09:19
for example, having limited food supply.
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例如在有限的食物供给时
09:22
And that, we think,
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我们认为那
09:24
is registered by the animal as a danger signal,
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对于动物而言是个危险信号
09:26
a signal that things are not okay
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预示什么不对头
09:28
and that it should roll out its protective capacity.
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它们的保护功能就开启了
09:31
So it activates FOXO, FOXO goes to the DNA,
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所以它激活了FOXO，FOXO进入DNA
09:34
and that triggers the expression of these genes
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引发这些基因显现
09:36
that improves the ability of the cell
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来带动细胞能力
09:38
to protect itself and repair itself.
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从而保护和修复自身
09:40
And that's why we think the animals live longer.
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这是我们认为动物活长久的原因
09:42
So you can think of FOXO
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你可以想象FOXO
09:44
as being like a building superintendent.
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为一个大楼的看门人
09:47
So maybe he's a little bit lazy,
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或许他有点懒
09:49
but he's there, he's taking care of the building.
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但他在那儿掌管着大楼
09:51
But it's deteriorating.
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但这是不好的
09:53
And then suddenly, he learns that there's going to be a hurricane.
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突然，他了解到将有一场飓风
09:56
So he doesn't actually do anything himself.
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所以他自己实际不做任何事
09:58
He gets on the telephone --
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但他打起电话--
10:00
just like FOXO gets on the DNA --
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就像FOXO进入到DNA--
10:02
and he calls up
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他打电话给
10:04
the roofer, the window person,
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修屋顶的人，修窗户的人
10:06
the painter, the floor person.
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油漆工，修地板的人
10:09
And they all come and they fortify the house.
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他们都来了，加固了房屋。
10:11
And then the hurricane comes through,
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然后飓风穿过
10:13
and the house is in much better condition than it would normally have been in.
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房屋比起它原本的要更加稳固
10:15
And not only that, it can also just last longer,
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不但如此，它也可以很久矗立不倒
10:18
even if there isn't a hurricane.
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甚至不是飓风来临
10:20
So that's the concept here
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所以这的概念
10:22
for how we think this life extension ability exists.
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就类似我们认为生命延长力的发生情形
10:26
Now the really cool thing about FOXO
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关于FOXO真正有趣的
10:28
is that there are different forms of it.
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是有不同种的FOXO
10:30
We all have FOXO genes,
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我们大家都有FOXO基因
10:33
but we don't all have exactly the same form of the FOXO gene.
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但我们不是完全拥有同一种FOXO基因
10:36
Just like we all have eyes,
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如同我们都有眼睛
10:38
but some of us have blue eyes and some of us have brown eyes.
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但有些人是蓝色的眼睛，有些是棕色的
10:41
And there are certain forms of the FOXO gene
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我们发现活到90或者100岁人里
10:44
that have found to be more frequently present
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最常有的
10:46
in people who live to be 90 or 100.
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某种FOXO基因
10:48
And that's the case all over the world,
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这是遍布全球的例子
10:50
as you can see from these stars.
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正如大家看到的这些星星
10:52
And each one of these stars represents a population
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每一个星星代表一个人群
10:54
where scientists have asked,
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科学家曾问过
10:56
"Okay, are there differences in the type of FOXO genes
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“好吧，在这些活得非常久人群里
10:58
among people who live a really long time?" and there are.
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FOXO基因有什么不同吗？” 是的
11:01
We don't know the details of how this works,
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我们不知道这起作用的细节
11:03
but we do know then
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但我们知道
11:05
that FOXO genes can impact
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这FOXO基因能影响
11:07
the lifespan of people.
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人们的寿命
11:09
And that means that, maybe if we tweak it a little bit,
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这意味着或许如果我们调试一下基因
11:12
we can increase the health and longevity of people.
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我们可以增加人们的寿命和保健功能
11:16
So this is really exciting to me.
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所以这对我而言很兴奋
11:18
A FOXO is a protein that we found in these little, round worms
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我们在这些小圆形线虫发现的FOXO是种蛋白质
11:20
to affect lifespan,
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它影响寿命
11:22
and here it affects lifespan in people.
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它也影响人们的寿命
11:24
So we've been trying in our lab now
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所以现在我们一直在我们实验室
11:26
to develop drugs
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研发药物
11:28
that will activate this FOXO cell
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它会激活这种FOXO细胞
11:30
using human cells now
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现使用人类细胞
11:32
in order to try and come up with drugs
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为了试药
11:34
that will delay aging and age-related diseases.
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用药来延缓衰老和老龄引发的疾病
11:37
And I'm really optimistic that this is going to work.
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这会行得通，我对此非常乐观
11:40
There are lots of different proteins that are known to affect aging.
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延缓衰老所熟知的有许多不同蛋白质
11:43
And for at least one of them, there is a drug.
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至少它们中的之一就是药物
11:46
There's one called TOR, which is another nutrient sensor,
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有种叫TOR，它是另一种营养传感器
11:48
like the insulin pathway.
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如同胰岛素传递
11:50
And mutations that damage the TOR gene --
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毁坏TOR基因的变异体
11:52
just like the daf-2 mutations --
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如同daf 2变异体--
11:54
extend lifespan in worms
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延长线虫
11:56
and flies and mice.
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苍蝇和老鼠的寿命
11:59
But in this case, there's already a drug called rapamycin
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但在这情况下，已经有种药叫纳巴霉素
12:01
that binds to the TOR protein
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和TOR蛋白质联系在一起
12:03
and inhibits its activity.
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抑制它的活性
12:05
And you can take rapamycin and give it to a mouse --
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你可以拿纳巴霉素，给老鼠试试--
12:08
even when it's pretty old, like age 60 for a human,
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甚至当它非常老，如同60岁的老人
12:10
that old for a mouse --
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那么老的一只老鼠--
12:12
if you give the mouse rapamycin,
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如果给老鼠纳巴霉素
12:14
it will live longer.
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它会活得久点
12:16
Now I don't want you all to go out taking rapamycin.
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现我不想让大家都去吃纳巴霉素
12:18
It is a drug for people,
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它是适应于人类的药
12:20
but the reason is it suppresses the immune system.
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但原因是它会抵制免疫系统
12:23
So people take it to prevent organ transplants from being rejected.
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所以人们吃了它会因排斥而不能器官移植
12:27
So this may not be the perfect drug
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所以这或许不是种完美的药物
12:29
for staying young longer.
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来永葆青春
12:31
But still, here in the year 2011,
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但这还是2011年
12:34
there's a drug that you can give to mice at a pretty old age
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就是这种药，你能把它给非常老的老鼠
12:36
that will extend their lifespan,
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它会延长它们的寿命
12:38
which comes out of this science
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这科学试验
12:40
that's been done in all these different animals.
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已经试用于所有这些不同动物身上
12:42
So I'm really optimistic,
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所以我非常乐观
12:44
and I think it won't be too long, I hope,
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我认为我希望，它会不久
12:46
before this age-old dream begins to come true.
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这个延缓衰老梦想早日实现
12:49
Thank you.
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谢谢
12:51
(Applause)
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（掌声）
13:00
Matt Ridley: Thank you, Cynthia.
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马特·瑞德里：谢谢，辛西娅
13:03
Let me get this straight.
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让我直说
13:05
Although you're looking for a drug
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尽管你在找寻一种药
13:07
that can solve aging
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它能解决
13:09
in old men like me,
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像我一样老人的衰老问题
13:12
what you could do now pretty well in the lab,
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几乎在实验室你能做什么
13:15
if you were allowed ethically,
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如果你在道德上被准许
13:17
is start a human life from scratch
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从人类生命开始
13:20
with altered genes that would make it live for a lot longer?
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改变基因就能使得人们生命更长久吗
13:23
CK: Ah, so the kinds of drugs I was talking about
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辛西娅·肯尼娅：我刚在讲这些药
13:26
would not change the genes,
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不是改变基因
13:28
they would just bind to the protein itself
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它们只会联系到蛋白质本身
13:31
and change its activity.
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改变它的活性
13:33
So if you stop taking the drug, the protein would go back to normal.
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所以如果你停止服药，蛋白质会返回到平常
13:36
You could change the genes in principle.
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原则上你可以改变基因
13:39
There isn't the technology to do that.
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还没有科技这样做
13:41
But I don't think that's a good idea.
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但我也认为这不是个好主意
13:43
And the reason is
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理由是
13:45
that these hormones,
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这些激素
13:47
like the insulin and the IGF hormones and the TOR pathway,
343
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就像胰岛素和IGF-1激素和TOR传递
13:50
they're essential.
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它们是最基本的
13:52
If you knock them out completely, then you're very sick.
345
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假若你完全没有它们，随后你就病得很重
13:55
So it might be that you would just have to fine tune it very carefully
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所以可能只会非常小心地调试它们
13:58
to get the benefits without getting any problems.
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在没有什么意外情况下使它们起作用
14:01
And I think that's much better,
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我想这会更好
14:03
that kind of control would be much better as a drug.
349
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这种调试就像用药一样会更好
14:05
And also, there are other ways of activating FOXO
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当然，也有其他方法激活FOXO
14:08
that don't even involve insulin or IGF-1
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甚至不需要胰岛素和IGF-1激素
14:10
that might even be safer.
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这甚至会更加安全
14:12
MR: I wasn't suggesting that I was going to go and do it, but ...
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马特·瑞德里：我不是建议我要去试试，但是
14:15
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
14:19
There's a phenomenon which you have written about and spoken about,
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你曾写过和讲过一种现象
14:23
which is a negligible senescence.
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它是一种可忽略的衰老
14:26
There are some creatures on this planet already
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在这星球上已经有些生物
14:28
that don't really do aging.
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它们不会衰老
14:31
Just move to one side for us, if you would.
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那让我们从另一面来说，假若可行的话
14:34
CK: There are. There are some animals that don't seem to age.
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辛西娅·肯尼娅：是的，有些动物好像不会衰老
14:37
For example, there are some tortoises called Blanding's turtles.
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例如，有种叫布兰丁的龟
14:41
And they grow to be about this size.
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它们生长到约这种尺寸
14:43
And they've been tagged, and they've been found to be 70 years old.
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它们被标记，我们发现它们是70岁
14:46
And when you look at these 70 year-old turtles,
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当看着这些70岁龟
14:48
you can't tell the difference, just by looking,
365
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你不能只从相貌看出区别
14:51
between those turtles and 20 year-old turtles.
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在这些70岁龟和20岁龟之间
14:53
And the 70 year-old ones,
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70岁龟
14:55
actually they're better at scouting out the good nesting places,
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事实上能更好地探出安巢的好地方
14:58
and they also have more progeny every year.
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它们每年也有更多的后代
15:01
And there are other examples of these kinds of animals,
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还有其它这种动物
15:04
like turns, certain kinds of birds are like this.
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像是某种鸟类就好比这个
15:07
And nobody knows if they really can live forever,
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没人知道它们真的能永世活着
15:09
or what keeps them from aging.
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或者是什么使得它们不衰老
15:11
It's not clear.
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这都不清楚
15:13
If you look at birds, which live a long time,
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如果你看看鸟类，那些活很长的
15:16
cells from the birds tend to be more resistant
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这些鸟的细胞趋于更能抵制
15:19
to a lot of different environmental stresses
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许多不同种的环境压力
15:21
like high temperature
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比如高温
15:23
or hydrogen peroxide, things like that.
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或过氧化氢，像这类似的
15:25
And our long-lived mutants are too.
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我们长寿变异体也是如此
15:27
They're more resistant to these kinds of stresses.
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它们更能抵制这些压力
15:29
So it could be that the pathways that I've been talking about,
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所以这可能是我所说的传递
15:32
which are set to run really quickly in the worm,
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它在线虫身上设定和运转得非常快
15:35
have a different normal set point
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有一个不同标准设定点
15:38
in something like a bird, so that a bird can live a lot longer.
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如同鸟身上的那种，以至于鸟类能活很久
15:41
And maybe they're even set really differently
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或许它们甚至在动物中设定得非常不同
15:43
in animals with no senescence at all -- but we don't know.
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一点都没有衰老--但我们不得而知
15:46
MR: But what you're talking about here
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马特·瑞德里：但你这儿所谈到的
15:48
is not extending human lifespan
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不是通过预防死亡
15:51
by preventing death,
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来延长人类寿命
15:53
so much as extending human youthspan.
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如同延长人类青春期一样
15:55
CK: Yes, that's right.
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辛西娅·肯尼娅：是的，是这样
15:57
It's more like, say, if you were a dog.
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这更像是，如果比作狗
15:59
You notice that you're getting old, and you look at your human
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你发觉你在变老，你看看人类
16:01
and you think, "Why isn't this human getting old?"
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你想，“为什么这人不变老？”
16:03
They're not getting old in the dog's lifespan.
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在狗的一生，人们没有变老
16:05
It's more like that.
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这更像这种情况
16:07
But now we're the human looking out and imagining a different human.
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但现在我们是人类看着和想象着一个不同的人
16:11
MR: Thank you very much indeed, Cynthia Kenyon.
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马特·瑞德里：的确十分感谢，辛西娅·肯尼娅
16:14
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Cynthia Kenyon - Biochemist, geneticistWhen it comes to aging well, having “good genes” (or rather, mutant ones) is key, says Cynthia Kenyon. She unlocked the genetic secret of longevity in roundworms — and now she’s working to do the same for humans.
Why you should listen
Cynthia Kenyon is revolutionizing our understanding of aging. As an expert in biochemistry and biophysics at the University of California at San Francisco, she is particularly interested in the influence that genetics have on age-related diseases (from cancer to heart failure) in living things.
Her biggest breakthrough was figuring out that there’s a “universal hormonal control for aging”: carbohydrate intake, which can have a dramatic effect on how two critical genes behave, reducing insulin production and boosting repair and renovation activities. So far, her theory has proved true for worms, mice, rats, and monkeys — and she suspects it applies to humans, too.
By studying aging, Kenyon believes that she and other scientists (many of whom have successfully duplicated her experiments) will be able to pinpoint the molecules responsible for the onset of age-related diseases in people and prevent them. She’s co-founded a drug-development company called Elixir Pharmaceuticals to do just that.
She says: "The link between aging and age-related disease suggests an entirely new way to combat many diseases all at once; namely, by going after their greatest risk factor: aging itself."
Cynthia Kenyon | Speaker | TED.com