TEDxWomen 2012
Janine di Giovanni: What I saw in the war
珍妮• 迪• 乔瓦尼: 我所看到的战争
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Readability: 3.2
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做为一名记者，珍妮•迪•乔瓦尼曾去过世界上最艰苦的地方，从那里带回了波斯尼亚，塞拉利昂和叙利亚的报导。她的故事充满着人类的巨大纠纷，并探讨一个令人难以置信，震惊的转变：一个熟悉的城市街道变成了被炸毁的战场的过程。
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
This is how war starts.
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战争是这样开始的
00:19
One day you're living your ordinary life,
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有一天，你一如既往地过着你的生活
00:22
you're planning to go to a party,
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你正准备参加一个派对
00:25
you're taking your children to school,
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你正在送孩子上学
00:27
you're making a dentist appointment.
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你正在去看牙医的路上。
00:30
The next thing, the telephones go out,
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突然，手机没有了信号
00:33
the TVs go out, there's armed men on the street,
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电视信号也中断了，大街上到处都是武装分子。
00:37
there's roadblocks.
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道路被拦了起来
00:40
Your life as you know it goes into suspended animation.
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你的生活突然停滞了
00:44
It stops.
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它停止了。
00:46
I'm going to steal a story from a friend of mine,
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我要从我朋友那里借一个故事
00:49
a Bosnian friend, about what happened to her,
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我的一个波斯尼亚的朋友，一个关于她的故事
00:52
because I think it will illustrate for you exactly what it feels like.
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因为我认为它将为你呈现的正是这种感觉。
00:56
She was walking to work one day in April, 1992,
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在 1992 年 4 月的一天，她正在上班的路上
01:00
in a miniskirt and high heels. She worked in a bank.
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穿着迷你裙和高跟鞋。她在一家银行工作。
01:04
She was a young mother. She was someone who liked to party.
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她是一位年轻的母亲，一位很喜欢参加派对的人。
01:07
Great person.
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总之是一个很棒的人。
01:09
And suddenly she sees a tank
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她突然看到了一辆坦克
01:12
ambling down the main road of Sarajevo
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缓缓地在萨拉热窝的路上行驶
01:15
knocking everything out of its path.
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把路上一切阻挡它的东西给撞开
01:19
She thinks she's dreaming, but she's not.
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她一瞬间认为她在做梦，但她错了。
01:23
And she runs as any of us would have done
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她像任何正常人一样逃离了那个地方
01:26
and takes cover, and she hides behind a trash bin,
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她躲在了一个隐蔽的垃圾桶后
01:30
in her high heels and her miniskirt.
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穿着她的高跟鞋和她的迷你裙。
01:32
And as she's hiding there, she's feeling ridiculous,
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在那时，她感觉这一切很可笑
01:37
but she's seeing this tank go by with soldiers
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但她看到坦克随着士兵行驶着
01:39
and people all over the place and chaos
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和人们处于一片混乱之中
01:42
and she thinks, "I feel like Alice in Wonderland
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她想着，"我怎么觉得自己像梦游仙境里的爱丽丝
01:46
going down the rabbit hole,
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一样掉入兔子洞，
01:49
down, down, down into chaos,
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一直往下，陷入一片混乱
01:52
and my life will never be the same again."
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我永远不会回到过去了。”
01:57
A few weeks later, my friend was in a crowd of people
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几个星期后，我的那位朋友在一群人里
02:01
pushing with her infant son in her arms
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抱着自己怀里的婴儿，推搡着前面的人，
02:06
to give him to a stranger on a bus,
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她要把他送给一个大巴上的陌生人
02:08
which was one of the last buses leaving Sarajevo
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这是离开萨拉热窝的最后一个巴士之一
02:11
to take children out so they could be safe.
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为了把孩子带到安全的地方
02:14
And she remembers struggling with her mother to the front,
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她记得她和母亲挣扎着抢到前面
02:19
crowds and crowds of people, "Take my child! Take my child!"
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成群成片的人大喊着："带走我的孩子！带走我的孩子!"
02:22
and passing her son to someone through a window.
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并将她的儿子通过一个窗口传递给他人
02:28
And she didn't see him for years.
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她很多年没见到自己的孩子了。
02:31
The siege went on for three and a half years,
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这次的围攻持续了三个半年
02:35
and it was a siege without water,
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那时没有任何的水源
02:37
without power, without electricity, without heat, without food,
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没有电源，电力，暖气，食物，
02:42
in the middle of Europe, in the middle of the 20th century.
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在 20 世纪中的欧洲中部。
02:48
I had the honor of being one of those reporters
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身为诸多记者中的一员，我有幸的
02:51
that lived through that siege,
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在战争中活了下来
02:54
and I say I have the honor and the privilege of being there
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我感到我很幸运，很荣幸
02:57
because it's taught me everything,
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因为这次的经历教会了我很多的事情，
02:59
not just about being a reporter, but about being a human being.
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不只身为一名记者，而作为一名人类
03:03
I learned about compassion.
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我学到了同情。
03:06
I learned about ordinary people who could be heroes.
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我明白了普通人也能成为英雄
03:09
I learned about sharing. I learned about camaraderie.
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我学会了共享，我学会了友情。
03:14
Most of all, I learned about love.
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最重要的是，我学到了爱。
03:17
Even in the midst of terrible destruction and death and chaos,
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即使在可怕的破坏，死亡，和混乱之中，
03:22
I learned how ordinary people could help their neighbors,
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我学到了如何普通人可以帮助他们的邻居，
03:25
share food, raise their children,
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分享食物、 养育对方的儿女，
03:28
drag someone who's being sniped at from the middle of the road
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比如从路中间拉回一个将被射死的人
03:31
even though you yourself were endangering your life,
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即使这个举动会危及你的生命，
03:34
helping people get into taxis who were injured
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帮助受伤的人上出租车
03:37
to try to take them to hospitals.
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尝试把他们带到医院。
03:40
I learned so much about myself.
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我重新认识了自己。
03:43
Martha Gellhorn, who's one of my heroes, once said,
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我心目中的英雄之一，玛莎 · 盖尔霍恩，曾经说过：
03:46
"You can only love one war. The rest is responsibility."
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"你只能爱一场战争。其余是只是责任"
03:51
I went on to cover many, many, many wars after that,
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在那以后，我报导了许多许多的战争
03:55
so many that I lost count,
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多到我无法数清
03:57
but there was nothing like Sarajevo.
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但没有任何一个和萨拉热窝一样。
04:00
Last April, I went back to a very strange --
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而去年 4 月，我到了一个很奇怪的—
04:04
what I called a deranged high school reunion.
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一个我称为扭曲的高中聚会
04:08
What it was, was the 20th anniversary of the siege,
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它其实是战争的二十年周年庆祝会
04:12
the beginning of the siege of Sarajevo,
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纪念着萨拉热窝围攻的初始
04:15
and I don't like the word "anniversary," because it sounds like a party,
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我不喜欢"周年庆祝会"这个词，因为它听起来像一个派对
04:19
and this was not a party.
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它不是一个派对
04:21
It was a very somber gathering of the reporters
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而是一个非常抑郁的聚会，为了在战争里工作的记者
04:25
that worked there during the war, humanitarian aid workers,
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为了在那里工作的人道主义援助工作者
04:28
and of course the brave and courageous people of Sarajevo themselves.
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当然，还有萨拉热窝的英勇人民
04:33
And the thing that struck me the most,
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一件影响我最大的事，
04:35
that broke my heart,
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一件伤碎了我的心的事是
04:37
was walking down the main street of Sarajevo,
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当我走在萨拉热窝的大街上
04:39
where my friend Aida saw the tank coming 20 years ago,
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就是我的朋友阿依达初次看到坦克的那一条街
04:43
and in that road were more than 12,000 red chairs,
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在这条街上有着超过 12,000 的红色椅子，
04:50
empty,
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空无一人
04:51
and every single one of them symbolized
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而每一个椅子代表了
04:54
a person who had died during the siege,
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战争期间死亡的人
04:57
just in Sarajevo, not in all of Bosnia,
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只是在萨拉热窝去世的，还不包括所有的波斯尼亚亡者，
05:02
and it stretched from one end of the city
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它从这座城市的一端延伸
05:04
to a large part of it,
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到更远的地方
05:06
and the saddest for me were the tiny little chairs
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而对我来说最可悲的是那些
05:10
for the children.
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为死去的儿童而留的小椅子。
05:13
I now cover Syria,
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我现在正在叙利亚报道，
05:16
and I started reporting it because I believed that
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我在那里报道是因为我相信
05:19
it needs to be done.
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我一定要这么做。
05:21
I believe a story there has to be told.
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我相信那里有一个必须让人知道的故事。
05:24
I see, again, a template of the war in Bosnia.
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我再次看到了波斯尼亚战争的模板。
05:28
And when I first arrived in Damascus,
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当我首次抵达大马士革
05:31
I saw this strange moment where people
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我看见一个很奇怪的现象
05:33
didn't seem to believe that war was going to descend,
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人们似乎并不相信战争正要降临，
05:37
and it was exactly the same in Bosnia
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同样的态度也曾在波斯尼亚出现过
05:38
and nearly every other country I've seen where war comes.
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和我见过几乎每个面临战争的国家一样。
05:41
People don't want to believe it's coming,
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人们不愿相信它的到来，
05:44
so they don't leave, they don't leave before they can.
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所以他们不离开，他们从不在可以离开时离开。
05:47
They don't get their money out.
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他们不把钱汇出去
05:49
They stay because you want to stay in your home.
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他们滞留在原地，因为他们想留在家里
05:53
And then war and chaos descend.
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而在这时，战争和混乱降临了。
05:57
Rwanda is a place that haunts me a lot.
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卢旺达是一个我忘不了的地方。
06:01
In 1994, I briefly left Sarajevo to go report the genocide in Rwanda.
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1994 年，我暂时离开萨拉热窝去报告卢旺达的种族灭绝。
06:07
Between April and August, 1994,
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4 月至 1994 年 8 月
06:12
one million people were slaughtered.
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100 万人被屠杀。
06:16
Now if those 12,000 chairs freaked me out
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现在，如果那 12,000 椅子纯粹的因为数量
06:21
with the sheer number,
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而把我吓着了
06:23
I want you just for a second to think of a million people.
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你想一下，一百万人是什么概念？
06:27
And to give you some example, I remember
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给你举几个例子，我记得
06:29
standing and looking down a road as far as I could see,
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我遥望着一条很长的路
06:34
at least a mile, and there were bodies piled twice my height
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至少离我一英里以内，所有的尸体堆积到了我身高的两倍，
06:41
of the dead.
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尸体。
06:42
And that was just a small percentage of the dead.
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我所看到的只是所有亡者中很小的一个百分比。
06:46
And there were mothers holding their children
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在那里，母亲抱着她们曾经
06:48
who had been caught in their last death throes.
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垂死挣扎的儿女。
06:51
So we learn a lot from war,
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因此所见，我们可以从战争学到很多事情，
06:54
and I mention Rwanda
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我之所以提起卢旺达
06:57
because it is one place, like South Africa,
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是因为它是一个像南非一样的地方，
07:01
where nearly 20 years on, there is healing.
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在 20 年过去了之后逐渐愈合
07:05
Fifty-six percent of the parliamentarians are women,
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百分之五十六的议员是女性，
07:08
which is fantastic,
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这是奇妙的事情
07:11
and there's also within the national constitution now,
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此外，现在它们的国家的宪法要求
07:15
you're actually not allowed to say Hutu or Tutsi.
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你不允许称呼认为胡图族或图西族
07:18
You're not allowed to identify anyone by ethnicity,
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你不能以族裔来称呼别人
07:22
which is, of course, what started the slaughter in the first place.
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因为种族歧视是导致大屠杀的第一原因
07:26
And an aid worker friend of mine told me the most beautiful story,
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我的一位朋友，一名援助工作者，曾告诉我一个美丽的故事，
07:29
or I find it beautiful.
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至少我认为很美丽
07:31
There was a group of children, mixed Hutus and Tutsis,
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有一群孩子，包括了胡图族和图西人，
07:36
and a group of women who were adopting them,
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和一群准备领养他们的妇女，
07:38
and they lined up and one was just given to the next.
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他们排起队，一个孩子分给一个人
07:42
There was no kind of compensation for, you're a Tutsi,
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而这是没有任何补偿的。如果你是一个图西人
07:46
you're a Hutu, you might have killed my mother,
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或者一个胡图族人，你可能杀了我的母亲，
07:48
you might have killed my father.
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或者杀了我父亲。
07:50
They were just brought together in this kind of reconciliation,
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但是他们在这种无形的状况下和解，
07:56
and I find this remarkable.
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我觉得这是很奇妙的。
07:59
So when people ask me how I continue to cover war,
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所以，当人们问我我如何继续报导战争，
08:02
and why I continue to do it,
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为什么我继续做着这件事情
08:04
this is why.
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这就是我的原因。
08:06
When I go back to Syria, next week in fact,
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当我回到叙利亚，其实我下周就去，
08:09
what I see is incredibly heroic people,
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我看到的是令人难以置信的英勇的人，
08:13
some of them fighting for democracy,
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他们为民主主义而战
08:15
for things we take for granted every single day.
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为了我们认为理所应然的东西
08:19
And that's pretty much why I do it.
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这就是为什么我做着我做的事情
08:23
In 2004, I had a little baby boy,
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2004 年，我生了个小男孩，
08:27
and I call him my miracle child,
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我叫他奇迹的孩子
08:30
because after seeing so much death
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因为看到这么多的伤亡
08:33
and destruction and chaos and darkness in my life,
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在我的生活里那破坏，混乱和黑暗之中
08:38
this ray of hope was born.
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一线希望出生。
08:41
And I called him Luca, which means "The bringer of light,"
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我叫他卢卡，意味着"光明使者"，
08:46
because he does bring light to my life.
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因为他给我的生活带来光明。
08:50
But I'm talking about him because when he was four months old,
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我只所以提起他，是因为他四个月大时
08:54
my foreign editor forced me to go back to Baghdad
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我的外国编辑迫使我回到巴格达
08:59
where I had been reporting all throughout the Saddam regime
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在萨达姆政权中报导整个过程
09:02
and during the fall of Baghdad and afterwards,
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在巴格达沦陷期间以及之后，
09:05
and I remember getting on the plane in tears,
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我记得自己哭着上飞机
09:08
crying to be separated from my son,
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因为我和儿子的分离而哭泣
09:11
and while I was there,
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我在那里（巴格达）时，
09:13
a quite famous Iraqi politician who was a friend of mine
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我的朋友，一个相当有名的伊拉克政治家
09:16
said to me, "What are you doing here?
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对我说： "什么你在这里？
09:18
Why aren't you home with Luca?"
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你怎么不和卢卡在家里?"
09:20
And I said, "Well, I have to see." It was 2004
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我说，"嗯，因为我必须见证这一切。"在 2004 年
09:24
which was the beginning of the incredibly bloody time in Iraq,
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在伊拉克血腥的一段时期的初段
09:28
"I have to see, I have to see what is happening here.
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"我要看着，我一定要看着这里发生了什么。
09:32
I have to report it."
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我必须报告它"。
09:32
And he said, "Go home,
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他说，"回家吧，
09:36
because if you miss his first tooth,
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因为如果你错过了他（卢卡）第一次的脱牙
09:39
if you miss his first step, you'll never forgive yourself.
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如果你错过了他迈出的第一步，你永远不会原谅自己。
09:42
But there will always be another war."
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但是世界上总会有另一场战争。
09:46
And there, sadly, will always be wars.
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而可悲的是，战争是不会停止的。
09:51
And I am deluding myself if I think, as a journalist,
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我尽量的说服自己：作为一名记者，
09:54
as a reporter, as a writer,
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作为一名记者，一个作家，
09:56
what I do can stop them. I can't.
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我做什么都不可能阻止他们。我不行。
10:01
I'm not Kofi Annan. He can't stop a war.
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我不是科菲 · 安南。他不能停止战争。
10:04
He tried to negotiate Syria and couldn't do it.
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他试图在叙利亚谈判，而失败了。
10:06
I'm not a U.N. conflict resolution person.
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我不是一个联合国冲突决议人。
10:10
I'm not even a humanitarian aid doctor,
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我甚至不是一个人道主义援助的医生，
10:13
and I can't tell you the times of how helpless I've felt
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我不能告诉你，我那时感到多么的无助
10:16
to have people dying in front of me, and I couldn't save them.
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有的人死在我面前，而我救不了他们。
10:19
All I am is a witness.
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我是一名证人。
10:23
My role is to bring a voice to people who are voiceless.
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我的角色是为那些没有发言权的人出声。
10:28
A colleague of mine described it as to shine a light
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我的同事形容其为用光照亮
10:31
in the darkest corners of the world.
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世界最黑暗的角落。
10:34
And that's what I try to do.
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而这正是我尽量去做的。
10:36
I'm not always successful,
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我不会每次都成功
10:39
and sometimes it's incredibly frustrating,
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有时候甚至是让人非常令人沮丧的，
10:42
because you feel like you're writing into a void,
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因为你会觉得你做着无用功
10:44
or you feel like no one cares.
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或你觉得没有人会在乎。
10:47
Who cares about Syria? Who cares about Bosnia?
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谁在乎叙利亚？谁在乎波斯尼亚？
10:49
Who cares about the Congo,
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有谁会在乎刚果、
10:51
the Ivory Coast, Liberia, Sierra Leone,
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象牙海岸、 利比里亚、 塞拉利昂，
10:53
all of these strings of places that
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这一整串的地方，
10:55
I will remember for the rest of my life?
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我会一辈子记住吗？
10:59
But my métier is to bear witness
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但我的职业是一名见证人
11:02
and that is the crux, the heart of the matter,
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这就是问题症结所在，问题的核心
11:06
for us reporters who do this.
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我们这样的记者。
11:08
And all I can really do is hope,
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我只能做的只有盼望，
11:12
not to policymakers or politicians,
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不是对政策制定者或政客，
11:14
because as much as I'd like to have faith
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因为我尽管希望
11:17
that they read my words and do something,
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他们会读我的报导，会改变现况
11:19
I don't delude myself.
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我不会欺骗自己。
11:22
But what I do hope is that if you remember anything I said
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但我真正的希望的是，如果你能记得我所说的话，
11:27
or any of my stories tomorrow morning over breakfast,
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或者明天早上吃早餐时想起我的故事
11:30
if you can remember the story of Sarajevo,
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如果你能记住萨拉热窝的故事
11:33
or the story of Rwanda,
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或者卢旺达的故事
11:36
then I've done my job.
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我完成了我的工作。
11:39
Thank you very much.
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非常感谢。
11:41
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Janine di Giovanni - ReporterJanine di Giovanni reports from war zones around the world.
Why you should listen
Janine di Giovanni is a contributing editor to Vanity Fair. She writes for the British, American, and French press, and has reported from Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Algeria, Gaza, the West Bank, Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Pakistan, East Timor, Ivory Coast, Bosnia, Kosovo, Liberia, Somalia, Nigeria and Sierra Leone. has won four major journalistic awards, including the National Magazine Award.
She is the author of Madness Visible and The Quick and the Dead, The Place at the End of the World, and Ghosts by Daylight which recently won Spears Best Memoir of the Year. She wrote the introduction to the international best seller Zlata’s Diary: a Child’s Life in Sarajevo. Two documentaries have been made about her life and work (Bearing Witness and No Man’s Land). In 2010, she was the President of the Jury of the Prix Bayeux-Calvados for War. She is now focused on Syria, Egypt, Libya and Yemen and so far has been inside Syria three times. Janine lives in Paris.
Janine di Giovanni | Speaker | TED.com