TED@UPS
Wanis Kabbaj: How nationalism and globalism can coexist
瓦尼斯·卡巴扎: 民族主义和全球主义如何共存
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为什么我们要在民族主义和全球主义，爱我们的国家和关心全世界中二选一？在这个面向民族主义者和全球主义者的演讲中，瓦尼斯·卡巴扎向我们解释了我们应如何挑战这个极端，二元的想法——同为是一个国家和世界的公民感到骄傲。
Wanis Kabbaj - Transportation geek
UPS's Wanis Kabbaj works at the intersection of biology and transportation. Full bio
UPS's Wanis Kabbaj works at the intersection of biology and transportation. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
So two weeks ago, I searched
the word "nationalist" on Twitter.
the word "nationalist" on Twitter.
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两周前，我在推特上
搜索“民族主义者” 。
搜索“民族主义者” 。
00:18
The results were quite colorful,
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结果多种多样，
00:19
with expressions like,
"Emboldened Racist Moron," --
"Emboldened Racist Moron," --
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有的说是“大胆的种族主义白痴”
00:23
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
00:24
"White Supremacist Idiot,"
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“白种至上主义笨蛋”
00:26
"Fascist Sock Puppets," --
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“法西斯的袜子木偶”
00:28
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
00:29
"Orwellian, Hitlerian, Terrifying."
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“奥威尔式的、希特勒式的，令人恐怖的。”
00:32
I then searched the word "globalist"
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然后我搜索了“全球主义者”这个词，
00:34
and got things like,
"Socialist Sell-Outs,"
"Socialist Sell-Outs,"
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然后得到的结果是
“来自社会主义的叛徒，”
“来自社会主义的叛徒，”
00:37
"Disgusting Corporate Propaganda,"
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“令人恶心的企业宣传，”
00:40
"Elitist Financial Overlords,"
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“精英阶层的金融霸主，”
00:43
"Ruthless Cosmopolitan Rats."
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”无情的世界主义老鼠。“
00:45
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
00:47
Even by social media standards,
the words are cruel and disgusting.
the words are cruel and disgusting.
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即使用社交媒体的标准来看，
这些词是让人难受和厌恶的。
这些词是让人难受和厌恶的。
00:51
But they reflect the intensity
of one of the most fundamental questions
of one of the most fundamental questions
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但是它们反应了一个
很严重的基本问题
很严重的基本问题
00:56
of our times:
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在我们当下这个时代：
00:57
Nationalism or globalism --
what is the best path forward?
what is the best path forward?
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民族主义还是全球主义——哪一个
才是最好的前进方向呢？
才是最好的前进方向呢？
01:01
This question impacts
everything we care about:
everything we care about:
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这个问题影响了我们
所关心的每一件事情：
所关心的每一件事情：
01:03
our cultural identity,
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我们的文化身份，
01:05
our prosperity,
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繁荣兴旺，
01:07
our political systems --
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政治体制，
01:09
everything -- the health
of our planet -- everything.
of our planet -- everything.
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所有事情——我们星球的兴旺。
01:13
So on the one hand, we have nationalism.
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一方面，民族主义。
01:16
Collins defines it as
a "devotion to one's nation,"
a "devotion to one's nation,"
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《柯林斯词典》把这一名词
解释为“对一个民族的忠诚”，
解释为“对一个民族的忠诚”，
01:19
but also, a "doctrine that puts
national interests
national interests
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但同时也是“一种把
民族利益放在
民族利益放在
01:22
above international considerations."
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全球环境之上的信条。”
01:25
For nationalists, our modern societies
are built on national grounds:
are built on national grounds:
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对于民族主义者来说，我们
现代社会是建立在民族的基础上：
现代社会是建立在民族的基础上：
01:30
we share a land, a history, a culture,
and we defend each other.
and we defend each other.
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我们分享一片土地，
一种历史，文化，并且互相保护。
一种历史，文化，并且互相保护。
01:35
In a big and chaotic world,
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在一个巨大的混乱的世界里，
01:37
they see nationalism as the only
sensible way to maintain social stability.
sensible way to maintain social stability.
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他们将民族主义视作唯一一种
合理的维护社会稳定的方法。
合理的维护社会稳定的方法。
01:43
But alarmed globalists warn us:
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但是警惕的全球主义者提醒我们：
01:46
self-centered nationalism
can easily turn ugly.
can easily turn ugly.
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以自我为中心的民族主义
会很容易变得丑陋。
会很容易变得丑陋。
01:49
We've seen it with 20th-century fascisms:
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我们已经在20世纪的
法西斯主义里见到过：
法西斯主义里见到过：
01:52
bloody wars, millions of deaths,
immeasurable destruction.
immeasurable destruction.
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血腥的战争，数百万人的死亡，
无可计量的破坏。
无可计量的破坏。
01:57
On the other hand, we have globalism.
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另一方面，全球主义。
01:59
The Oxford Living Dictionary
defines it as:
defines it as:
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《牛津生活字典》对它定义为：
02:02
"the operation or planning
of economic and foreign policy
of economic and foreign policy
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“对经济和外交政策的经营或计划
02:05
on a global basis."
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建立在全球的基础上。”
02:07
For nationalists, globalism
is rapidly deconstructing
is rapidly deconstructing
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对于民族主义者来说，
全球主义是一种对于
全球主义是一种对于
我们祖先用很长时间
建立起的体制的快速破坏。
建立起的体制的快速破坏。
02:11
what our ancestors took decades to build.
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02:13
It's like spitting on our soldiers' tombs;
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就好像对着我们
士兵的坟墓吐痰；
士兵的坟墓吐痰；
02:16
it's eroding our national solidarities
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它正在侵蚀我们的
国家团结；
国家团结；
02:19
and opening the doors
to foreign invasions.
to foreign invasions.
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并向来自外部的入侵敞开大门。
02:22
But globalists make the case
that reinforcing our global governance
that reinforcing our global governance
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但是全球主义主张
增强全球化管理，
增强全球化管理，
02:27
is the only way to tackle
big supernational problems,
big supernational problems,
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这是处理跨国问题的唯一方法，
02:31
like nuclear proliferation,
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例如核扩散，
02:34
the global refugee crisis,
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全球难民危机，
02:36
climate change or terrorism
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气候变化或恐怖组织，
02:38
or even the consequences of superhuman AI.
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甚至超级人工智能带来的后果。
02:42
So we are at the crossroads,
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所以，我们现在站在一个十字路口，
02:45
and we are asked to choose:
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我们被要求做出选择：
02:46
nationalism or globalism?
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民族主义或是全球主义？
02:51
Having lived in four continents,
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我已经在四个大洲上居住过了，
02:52
I've always been interested
in this question.
in this question.
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常常对这个问题产生兴趣。
02:55
But it took a whole new level
when I saw this happening:
when I saw this happening:
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但我看到这个后，使我对这个问题的
看法到了另一个层面上：
看法到了另一个层面上：
02:58
the biggest surge in nationalist votes
in Western democracies
in Western democracies
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如今，在西方民主国家中支持民族主义
投票的陡增，
投票的陡增，
03:03
since World War II.
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自从第二次世界大战以来。
03:05
All of a sudden,
this isn't theory anymore.
this isn't theory anymore.
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一瞬间，这并不只是一个理论了。
03:08
I mean, these political movements
have built their success with ideas
have built their success with ideas
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这些政治运动已经取得成功，
背后的想法
背后的想法
03:12
that could mean, down the road,
losing my French citizenship
losing my French citizenship
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可能意味着，在不久的将来，
我可能会失去我法国公民的身份
我可能会失去我法国公民的身份
03:15
because I'm North African
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因为我是一个北非人，
03:17
or not being able to come
back home to the US
back home to the US
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或者再也无法返回美国
03:19
because I come from
a Muslim-majority country.
a Muslim-majority country.
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因为我来自穆斯林为主的国家。
03:22
You know, when you live in a democracy,
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当你生活在民主国家中，
03:25
you live with this idea that
your government will always protect you,
your government will always protect you,
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你相信，你的政府会永远保护你
03:28
as long as you abide by the laws.
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只要你遵守法律。
03:31
With the rise of national populism,
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随着当下兴起的民族民粹主义，
03:34
despite being the best citizen I can,
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尽管我是一个良好的市民，
03:36
I now have to live with the idea
that my government can hurt me
that my government can hurt me
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我现在也要接受我的
政府可能会伤害我
政府可能会伤害我
03:40
for reasons I cannot control.
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只是因为一些我无法控制的原因。
03:42
It's very unsettling.
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这极其令人不安。
03:44
But it forced me to rethink
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但这让我再次思考，
03:46
and rethink this question
and try to think deeper.
and try to think deeper.
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再次并且更深入地
思考这个问题。
思考这个问题。
03:49
And the more I thought about it,
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随着我思考的越多，
03:51
the more I started
questioning the question.
questioning the question.
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我越来越开始质疑
这个问题本身。
这个问题本身。
03:54
Why would we have to choose
between nationalism and globalism,
between nationalism and globalism,
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为什么我们一定要在民族主义
和全球主义中选择一个，
和全球主义中选择一个，
03:57
between loving our country
and caring for the world?
and caring for the world?
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在热爱国家和关心世界
中选择一个呢？
中选择一个呢？
04:02
There's no reason for that.
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这是毫无道理的。
我们没有必要在家庭
和国家地区中选择
和国家地区中选择
04:03
We don't have to choose
between family and country
between family and country
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04:05
or region or religion and country.
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或是在宗教和国家中选择。
04:07
We already have multiple identities,
and we live with them very well.
and we live with them very well.
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我们已经有了多重的身份，
伴随着这些，我们生活得也很好。
伴随着这些，我们生活得也很好。
04:12
Why would we have to choose
between country and world?
between country and world?
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为什么我们要在国家和
世界中做出抉择呢？
世界中做出抉择呢？
04:16
What if, instead of accepting
this absurd choice,
this absurd choice,
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假如，与其去接受
这些荒谬的选择，
这些荒谬的选择，
04:19
we took it on ourselves to fight
this dangerous, binary thinking?
this dangerous, binary thinking?
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我们对抗这个危险的
二元选择会怎么样？
二元选择会怎么样？
04:24
So for all the globalists in the audience,
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所以面对在坐的
全球主义观众们，
全球主义观众们，
04:27
I want to ask:
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我想问：
04:28
When I say the word "nationalist,"
what image comes to your mind?
what image comes to your mind?
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当我说“民族主义”这个词时
你们想到了什么？
你们想到了什么？
04:33
Something like this?
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是不是这样的？
04:34
Believe me, I think of that, too.
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相信我，我也是这样想的。
04:36
But I'd like you to remember
that for most people,
that for most people,
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但我像让你们记住，
对大多数人来说
对大多数人来说
04:39
nationalism feels more like this.
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民族主义的感觉更像是这样的。
04:42
Or maybe like that.
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或者像这样的。
04:44
You know, it's that thing inside you
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这就是你们内心深处的感受，
04:46
when you accidentally watch
an obscure Olympic sport on TV --
an obscure Olympic sport on TV --
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当你们无意间在电视上看到了
一个难懂的奥林匹克运动，
一个难懂的奥林匹克运动，
04:51
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:53
wait --
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等一下，
04:54
and the mere sight of an unknown athlete
wearing your national colors
wearing your national colors
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仅仅看到一个不知名的运动员
穿着你们国家颜色的衣服
穿着你们国家颜色的衣服
04:58
gets you all excited.
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都会使你们激动。
05:00
Your heartbeat goes up,
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你的心跳加快，
05:01
your stress level goes up,
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血压升高，
05:03
and you're standing in front of the TV
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并且你会驻足于电视前
05:05
and screaming with passion
for that athlete to win.
for that athlete to win.
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为这个运动员的胜利激情尖叫，
05:08
That's nationalism.
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这就是民族主义。
05:09
It's people happy to be together,
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人们乐于聚集在一起
05:11
happy to belong to a large
national community.
national community.
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为属于同一个
民族共同体感到开心。
民族共同体感到开心。
05:14
Why would it be wrong?
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哪里又有错的呢？
05:17
You know, globalists,
you may think of nationalism
you may think of nationalism
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全球主义者或许
认为民族主义
认为民族主义
是一个古老的19世纪的
思想，注定会消失。
思想，注定会消失。
05:19
as an old, 19th-century idea
that is destined to fade.
that is destined to fade.
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05:23
But I'm sorry to tell you
that the facts are not on your side.
that the facts are not on your side.
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但我很不幸的告诉你们，
真相并不如你们所想。
真相并不如你们所想。
05:27
When the World Values Survey
asked more than 89,000 people
asked more than 89,000 people
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当世界价值观调查问了
超过89000人
超过89000人
05:31
across 60 countries
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来自60个国家，
05:33
how proud they felt about their country,
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他们对自己国家的自豪感如何？
05:36
88.5 percent said "very proud"
or "quite proud" --
or "quite proud" --
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88.5%的都表示“非常自豪”或
“比较自豪”，
“比较自豪”，
05:39
88.5 percent.
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88.5%。
05:41
Nationalism is not
going away anytime soon.
going away anytime soon.
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民族主义不会很快消失的。
05:45
It's a powerful feeling
that, according to another study,
that, according to another study,
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另一项研究表明，
它是一种强大的感觉，
它是一种强大的感觉，
05:49
is a strong predictor
of individual happiness.
of individual happiness.
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是个体幸福的有效的预测仪。
05:53
It's crazy, but your happiness is more
correlated with national satisfaction
correlated with national satisfaction
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听起来难以置信，但你们的快乐或许
真的与民族满足感有关，
真的与民族满足感有关，
05:58
than with things you would expect,
like household income
like household income
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胜过你们所认为的
其他事物，如家庭收入
其他事物，如家庭收入
06:01
or your job satisfaction
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工作成就感
06:03
or your health satisfaction.
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健康满意度。
06:05
So if nationalism makes people happy,
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所以，如果民族主义使人开心，
06:08
why would anybody take it away from them?
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为什么一些人要消灭它呢？
06:11
Fellow globalists, if you are like me,
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各位全球主义者们，
如果你们像我一样，
如果你们像我一样，
06:14
you may be attached to globalization
for humanistic reasons.
for humanistic reasons.
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你们可能是因为全人类的
一些原因倾向于全球化。
一些原因倾向于全球化。
06:17
And you may take great joy
in some of its accomplishments since 1945.
in some of its accomplishments since 1945.
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与此同时，你们可能因从1945年以来的
一系列成就感受到喜悦。
一系列成就感受到喜悦。
06:22
After all, major regions of the world
have been exceptionally peaceful;
have been exceptionally peaceful;
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毕竟，世界上主要地区
都格外的和平；
都格外的和平；
06:26
extreme poverty rates around
the globe are trending down;
the globe are trending down;
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全世界的极端贫困率正在下降；
06:30
and more than two billion people,
most notably in Asia,
most notably in Asia,
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超过20亿人口，
主要是在亚洲，
主要是在亚洲，
06:33
show spectacular improvements
in their standards of living.
in their standards of living.
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生活水平有了极大的提高。
06:37
But studies also show
that globalization has a dark side.
that globalization has a dark side.
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但一些研究也显示了
全球化不好的一面。
全球化不好的一面。
06:41
And left on the side of the road
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在另一面的是
06:44
are hundreds of millions of people
in Western middle classes
in Western middle classes
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很多西方中产阶级人群
06:48
with anemic income growth
for more than two decades,
for more than two decades,
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在过去的20年里收入增长缓慢，
06:51
possibly three decades,
according to some studies.
according to some studies.
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甚至说是过去30年，
根据一些研究。
根据一些研究。
06:54
We cannot ignore
this elephant in our room.
this elephant in our room.
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我们无法忽视
这个巨大的问题。
这个巨大的问题。
06:57
If anything, our collective energy
would be better used
would be better used
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如果有可能，我们应该
更好地利用集体的力量
更好地利用集体的力量
06:59
finding ways to fix this aspect
of globalization,
of globalization,
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找到解决全球化中
这个问题的方法，
这个问题的方法，
07:03
instead of fighting this polarizing battle
against nationalism.
against nationalism.
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而不是用于这场对抗民族主义的
两极化斗争。
两极化斗争。
07:08
So now, the nationalists in the audience,
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所以，现在，观众里的
民族主义者们，
民族主义者们，
07:10
I have some crusty,
nonbinary nuggets for you.
nonbinary nuggets for you.
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我有一些强硬的，
非二元的好点子给你们。
非二元的好点子给你们。
07:14
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
07:16
When I say the word "globalist,"
what comes to your mind?
what comes to your mind?
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当我说“全球主义”时，
你们脑子里首先浮现的是什么？
你们脑子里首先浮现的是什么？
07:19
Out-of-touch, one-percent plutocrats?
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脱离现实的，
百分之一的富豪？
百分之一的富豪？
07:21
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
07:23
Or maybe the heartless,
greedy Wall Street type, right?
greedy Wall Street type, right?
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又或者是无情的，贪婪的
华尔街之徒，对么？
华尔街之徒，对么？
07:26
Or maybe people like me,
with multiple origins,
with multiple origins,
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又或者是一些像我这样的人，
有着多种根源
有着多种根源
07:28
living in a big, cosmopolitan metropolis.
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住在国际化大都市里。
07:32
Well, you remember that World
Values Survey that I mentioned earlier?
Values Survey that I mentioned earlier?
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好吧，你们还记得先前我
提到的国际价值观调查么？
提到的国际价值观调查么？
07:36
It showed another fascinating finding:
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它还有另外一个有趣的发现：
07:39
71 percent of the world population
agreed with the statement,
agreed with the statement,
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世界上71%的人口同意
07:43
"I am a citizen of the world."
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“我是这个世界的公民”这一观点。
07:45
Do you know what it means?
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你们知道这意味这什么吗？
07:47
Most of us are simultaneously
proud of our country
proud of our country
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我们中的大多数，
在为自己国家骄傲的同时
在为自己国家骄傲的同时
07:50
and citizens of the world.
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也为作为世界的公民而骄傲。
07:52
And it gets even better.
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还有更好的一点。
07:53
The citizens of the world in the survey
show a higher level of national pride
show a higher level of national pride
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在调查中，认为自己是世界公民的
人群中，有着更高的国家荣耀感，
人群中，有着更高的国家荣耀感，
07:58
than the ones that rejected that label.
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相比与那些不认同的人们。
08:00
So once and for all, being a globalist
doesn't mean betraying your country.
doesn't mean betraying your country.
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所以，一旦成为一名全球主义者
并不等同于背叛你的国家。
并不等同于背叛你的国家。
08:04
It just means that you have
enough social empathy,
enough social empathy,
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这只是表明，你有
足够的社会同情心，
足够的社会同情心，
08:06
and you project some of it outside
your national borders.
your national borders.
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你把其中的一部分
投射到了国家以外的地区。
投射到了国家以外的地区。
08:11
Now, I know that when I dig
into my own nationalist feelings,
into my own nationalist feelings,
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现如今，我知道，当我挖掘
我民族主义情绪的时候，
我民族主义情绪的时候，
08:14
one of my anxieties versus
the globalized world
the globalized world
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在面对全球化的世界时，
我对一点感到不安
我对一点感到不安
08:17
is national identity:
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就是民族身份。
08:19
How are we going to preserve
what makes us special,
what makes us special,
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我们应该如何去延续
那些让我们特别
那些让我们特别
08:22
what makes us different,
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那些让我们不同
08:24
what brings us together?
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那些让我们聚集在一起的东西呢？
08:25
And as I started thinking about it,
I realized something really strange,
I realized something really strange,
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当我开始思考这个问题的时候，
我发现很奇怪的一点，
我发现很奇怪的一点，
08:29
which is that a lot of the key ingredients
of our national identities
of our national identities
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哪些才是关乎民族身份的关键地方呢？
08:33
actually come from outside
our national borders.
our national borders.
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相比于国家之外地方的。
08:37
Like, think of the letters
that we use every day.
that we use every day.
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比如说字母，
我们每天都在用
我们每天都在用
08:39
I don't know if you realize,
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我不知道你们是否意识到，
08:41
but the Latin script, the Latin
alphabet that we use
alphabet that we use
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拉丁语，我们使用的拉丁语字母
08:44
has its origins thousands of years ago,
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起源于数千年之前，
08:47
near the Nile River.
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在尼罗河附近。
08:49
It all started with a cow just like this,
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这一切的开始就像这头牛一样，
08:52
that was captured by a scribe
into an elegant hieroglyph.
into an elegant hieroglyph.
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被一个文士用优雅的象形文字
记录下来。
记录下来。
08:57
That hieroglyph was transcribed
by a Semite in the Sinai
by a Semite in the Sinai
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这种象形文字被闪米特人
在西奈半岛抄写下来，
在西奈半岛抄写下来，
09:00
into the letter aleph.
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变成了aleph这个字母
09:02
Aleph traveled with Phoenicians
and reached the European shores in Greece,
and reached the European shores in Greece,
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alephe被腓尼基人带着到了
希腊的欧洲海岸上，
希腊的欧洲海岸上，
09:08
where it became alpha,
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在那里变成了alpha。
09:09
the mother of our letter A.
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字母A的祖先。
09:11
So that's how an Egyptian cow
became our letter A.
became our letter A.
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这就是一头埃及牛如何
变成字母A的。
变成字母A的。
09:14
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
09:16
And same thing with the Egyptian house
that became bet, beta and B.
that became bet, beta and B.
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并且同样的事情也发生在埃及房子上，
它变成了bet，beta和B。
它变成了bet，beta和B。
09:22
And the Egyptian fish
that became daleth, delta and D.
that became daleth, delta and D.
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与此同时埃及的鱼，
它变成了daleth，delta和D。
它变成了daleth，delta和D。
09:27
Our most fundamental texts
are full of Egyptian cows,
are full of Egyptian cows,
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我们最基本的文字中
充满了埃及的牛，
充满了埃及的牛，
09:31
houses and fish.
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房子和鱼。
09:32
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
09:34
And there are so many other examples.
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这样的例子还有很多。
09:36
Take the United Kingdom and its monarchy.
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以英国和他们的君主为例。
09:39
Queen Elizabeth II?
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伊丽莎白女王二世？
09:41
German ancestry.
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她有着德国血统。
09:43
The mottos on the royal coat of arms?
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皇室纹章上的座右铭？
09:45
All written in French,
not a single word of English.
not a single word of English.
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全是用法语写的，
没有一个是英语。
没有一个是英语。
09:49
Take France and it's iconic Eiffel Tower.
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3779
以法国和它的地标性建筑
埃菲尔铁塔为例。
埃菲尔铁塔为例。
09:52
The inspiration?
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灵感来源？
09:54
The United States of America --
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美利坚。
09:56
and I don't mean Las Vegas,
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我并不是指拉斯维加斯赌城，
09:58
I mean 19th-century New York.
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我说的是19世纪的纽约。
09:59
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
10:00
This was the tallest building
in New York in the mid-19th century.
in New York in the mid-19th century.
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这是19世纪中期，
纽约最高的建筑物。
纽约最高的建筑物。
10:04
Does it remind you of something?
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这有没有让你想起点什么？
10:07
And you may think of China
as a self-contained civilization,
as a self-contained civilization,
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你们可能会想到中国，
一个自给自足的文明，
一个自给自足的文明，
10:10
protected behind its Great Wall.
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被长城守护着。
10:12
But think twice.
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但再仔细想想。
10:14
The Chinese official ideology?
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中国的官方意识形态？
10:16
Marxism, made in Germany.
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马克思主义，起源于德国。
10:20
One of China's biggest religions?
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中国最大的宗教？
10:21
Buddhism, imported from India.
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佛教，从印度传入。
10:24
India's favorite pastime?
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印度最流行的娱乐项目？
10:26
Cricket.
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板球。
10:28
I really love this quote from Ashis Nandy,
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我真的很喜欢阿希斯·南迪这句话，
10:30
who said, "Cricket is an Indian game
accidentally discovered by the British."
accidentally discovered by the British."
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“板球是个印度的游戏，
只是碰巧被英国人发明了。”
只是碰巧被英国人发明了。”
10:35
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
10:37
So these are good reminders that a lot
of what we love in our national traditions
of what we love in our national traditions
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所以这些都是很好的提醒，
告诉我们，大家所热爱的民族传统
告诉我们，大家所热爱的民族传统
10:43
actually come from previous
waves of globalization.
waves of globalization.
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实际上来源于早些年的
全球化风潮。
全球化风潮。
10:46
And beyond individual symbols,
there are whole national traditions
there are whole national traditions
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除了个体的特征以外，
许多民族传统都是
许多民族传统都是
10:50
that could not have existed
without globalization.
without globalization.
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若无全球化，是不可能存在的。
10:54
And the example that comes to my mind
is a world-beloved national tradition:
is a world-beloved national tradition:
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我脑海里出现的一个例子，
就是全世界热爱的民族传统：
就是全世界热爱的民族传统：
10:58
Italian cuisine.
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意大利菜。
11:00
My friends, if you ever have a chance
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我的朋友们啊，
你们若有机会
你们若有机会
11:01
to go to a superauthentic
Italian restaurant
Italian restaurant
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去一个非常地道的意大利饭店，
11:04
that only serves ancient Roman recipes,
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里面只提供古罗马的菜品，
11:07
my advice for you is: don't go.
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我给你们的建议是：别去。
11:09
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
11:11
You'd get very, very disappointed.
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你会非常，非常失望的。
11:13
No spaghetti, no pasta --
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没有意大利面，没有通心粉，
11:15
that really started in Sicily
in the eighth century,
in the eighth century,
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他们都起源于第八世纪的西西里岛，
11:18
when it was under Arabian rule.
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当时还处于阿拉伯人的统治下。
11:20
No perfect espresso,
no creamy cappuccino --
no creamy cappuccino --
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没有好喝的意式浓缩咖啡，
没有奶油卡布奇诺，
没有奶油卡布奇诺，
11:23
that came from Abyssinia
via Yemen in the 17th century.
via Yemen in the 17th century.
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这些来源于阿比希尼亚，
在17世纪从也门传入。
在17世纪从也门传入。
11:26
And of course,
no perfect pizza Napoletana --
no perfect pizza Napoletana --
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当然了，也没有那不勒斯披萨——
11:29
how would you make it without
the tomatoes of the New World?
the tomatoes of the New World?
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若没来自新大陆的番茄
又怎么做呢？
又怎么做呢？
11:33
No, instead, you would be served
probably a lot of porridge,
probably a lot of porridge,
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然而，能给你提供的
可能是许多麦片粥
可能是许多麦片粥
11:37
some vegetable -- mostly
cabbage -- some cheese,
cabbage -- some cheese,
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一些蔬菜，主要是卷心菜，
还有一些芝士，
还有一些芝士，
11:41
and maybe if you're lucky,
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如果你够幸运的话，
11:43
the absolute delicacy of that time --
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当时绝对佳肴，
11:46
mmm, perfectly cooked fattened dormice.
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嗯，精心烹饪的肥睡鼠。
11:49
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
11:52
Thankfully, it was not a close tradition
preserved by fanatic watchdogs.
preserved by fanatic watchdogs.
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值得庆幸的是，它并非一个封闭的传统
并没有被狂热监督者保留下来。
并没有被狂热监督者保留下来。
11:56
No, it was an open process,
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事实上，它是开放的过程，
11:58
nourished by explorers, traders,
street sellers and innovative home cooks.
street sellers and innovative home cooks.
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探险家，商人，小贩和创新的家厨
不断为其添砖加瓦。
不断为其添砖加瓦。
12:04
And in many ways,
globalization is a chance
globalization is a chance
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从多个角度来说，
全球化是一个机遇
全球化是一个机遇
12:06
for our national traditions to be
questioned, regenerated, reinterpreted,
questioned, regenerated, reinterpreted,
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能让我们民族的传统可以去
被质疑，再生，并且重新定义，
被质疑，再生，并且重新定义，
12:11
to attract new converts
to stay vibrant and relevant over time.
to stay vibrant and relevant over time.
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能够吸引新的皈依者，
随时间推移保持活力和意义。
随时间推移保持活力和意义。
12:15
So just remember this:
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所以，记住，
12:17
most of us nationalists
in the world are globalists,
in the world are globalists,
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世界上大多数的
民族主义者，是全球主义者的，
民族主义者，是全球主义者的，
12:20
and most of us globalists
in the world are nationalists.
in the world are nationalists.
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世界上大多数全球主义者
同时也是民族主义者。
同时也是民族主义者。
12:23
A lot of what we like
in our national traditions
in our national traditions
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许多我们喜欢的民族传统
12:26
come from outside our national borders.
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来源于我们国度之外。
12:28
And the reason we venture
outside our national borders
outside our national borders
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我们之所以向国度之外探险，
12:31
is to discover these other
national traditions.
national traditions.
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是为了发现其他的民族传统。
12:33
So the real question should not be
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所以，真正的问题不应该是
12:35
to choose between
nationalism and globalism.
nationalism and globalism.
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在民族主义和全球主义中二选一。
12:38
The real questions is:
How can we do both better?
How can we do both better?
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真正的问题是，如何让两者更好？
12:41
It's a complex question
for a complex world
for a complex world
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这是一个复杂世界的复杂问题
12:44
that calls for creative,
nonbinary solutions.
nonbinary solutions.
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它需要有创意的，非二元的
解决策略。
解决策略。
12:48
What are you waiting for?
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你们还在等什么呢？
12:49
Thank you.
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谢谢
12:50
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Wanis Kabbaj - Transportation geekUPS's Wanis Kabbaj works at the intersection of biology and transportation.
Why you should listen
As the director of global strategy for healthcare logistics at UPS, Wanis Kabbaj finds ways for organizations to transport their temperature-sensitive medicines and biotechnologies safely around the world. For more than 16 years, Kabbaj's professional engagements have always revolved around transportation and innovation. Some of his ventures involved helping EADS Astrium use its satellite space transportation expertise in unexpected markets or participating in the global launch of Logan, a revolutionary low-cost vehicle, that helped Renault-Nissan harness a surprising growth in emerging markets.
Kabbaj is a dual citizen of Morocco and France and lived in four continents. Experiencing constant cultural transitions throughout his life gave him a real taste for analyzing problems through non-traditional lenses and blending disciplines that are usually kept separate.
Wanis Kabbaj | Speaker | TED.com