TED1998
Milton Glaser: Using design to make ideas new
米爾頓．葛雷瑟談運用設計使構想煥然一新
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TED資料庫: 米爾頓．葛雷瑟,一位美國有名繪圖設計師,剖析自己如何以畢也洛．德拉．法蘭契斯卡為靈感創作新的作品。他也沉思於如何拆解構想並讓此換然一新，做出令人說服的海報。
Milton Glaser - Graphic designer
If his career began and ended with "I [heart] N Y," Milton Glaser would still be a legend. But over his multi-decade career, his body of work is sprinkled with similarly iconic images and logos. Full bio
If his career began and ended with "I [heart] N Y," Milton Glaser would still be a legend. But over his multi-decade career, his body of work is sprinkled with similarly iconic images and logos. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:18
'Theme and variations' is one of those forms that
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思考 "主題"和"主題的變化"
00:21
require a certain kind of intellectual activity,
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需要相當的智力活動。
00:26
because you are always comparing the variation
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因為你得不斷地比較
00:29
with the theme that you hold in your mind.
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烙印在你腦中的"主題"與其"變化"。
00:32
You might say that the theme is nature
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你可以說"主題"是事物的根源
00:36
and everything that follows is a variation on the subject.
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而隨之而來的皆是這個主題的變化。
00:46
I was asked, I guess about six years ago,
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差不多在六年前，
00:54
to do a series of paintings
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我受邀創作一系列的畫
00:59
that in some way would celebrate the birth of Piero della Francesca.
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為了慶祝畢也洛.德拉.法蘭契斯卡的生日。
01:06
And it was very difficult for me to imagine
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對我而言
01:10
how to paint pictures that were based on Piero
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以畢也洛為靈感去創作是件難事
01:19
until I realized that I could look at Piero as nature --
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直到我領悟畢也洛就是這個靈感的根源。
01:26
that I would have the same attitude towards looking at Piero della Francesca
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我可以以等同於觀看一棵窗外綠樹的態度
01:33
as I would if I were looking out a window at a tree.
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去觀看畢也洛.德拉.法蘭契斯卡。
01:36
And that was enormously liberating to me.
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這對我來說是個徹底的解放，
01:39
Perhaps it's not a very insightful observation,
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或許這是種不太深刻的觀察，
01:43
but that really started me on a path to be able to do a kind of theme and variations
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但這確實讓我找到一個辦法依照畢也洛(Piero)的作品，
01:49
based on a work by Piero,
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進行主題和變動。
01:53
in this case that remarkable painting that's in the Uffizi, "The Duke of Montefeltro,"
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以烏菲茲美術館中著名的藏品“烏爾班公爵-費德里柯.達.蒙特費爾托‘為例，
02:00
who faces his consort, Battista.
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他面對著他配偶 巴蒂絲達。
02:05
Once I realized that I could take some liberties with the subject,
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當我明瞭可以不用受限於主題後，
02:09
I did the following series of drawings.
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我創作了以下這系列的繪畫。
02:13
That's the real Piero della Francesca --
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這是畢也洛．德拉．法蘭契斯卡的原作。
02:18
one of the greatest portraits in human history.
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其中一幅在人類歷史上非常重要的肖像畫。
02:23
And these, I'll just show these without comment.
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這些我就不一一解說了。
02:27
It's just a series of variations on the head of the Duke of Montefeltro,
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都是從原本的肖像發展出來的變化。
02:33
who's a great, great figure in the Renaissance,
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這位公爵是在文藝復興時期非常重要的人物，
02:36
and probably the basis for Machiavelli's "The Prince."
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馬基維利所寫君王論可能就是以他為榜樣。
02:39
He apparently lost an eye in battle,
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他顯然在某場戰役中失去了一隻眼睛，
02:42
which is why he is always shown in profile.
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因此他總是以側面示人。
02:45
And this is Battista.
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這是巴蒂絲達。
02:50
And then I decided I could move them around a little bit --
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接著我決定把他們稍加移動一下。
02:56
so that for the first time in history, they're facing the same direction.
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做就史上第一次他們望向同一方向。
02:59
Whoops! Passed each other.
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哎呀! 他們擦身而過。
03:06
And then a visitor from another painting by Piero,
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接下來有位訪客，
03:09
this is from "The Resurrection of Christ" --
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他來自畢也洛(Piero)所畫的"基督的復活(The Resurrection of Christ)"。
03:12
as though the cast had just gotten of the set to have a chat.
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擺出好像要聊天一樣的陣式。
03:17
And now, four large panels:
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現在把圖分成四大格。
03:20
this is upper left;
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這是左上。
03:22
upper right;
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右上。
03:26
lower left;
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左下。
03:29
lower right.
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右下。
03:31
Incidentally, I've never understood the conflict between abstraction and naturalism.
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順道一提，我從未搞懂為什麼抽象主義和自然主義之間會有衝突，
03:38
Since all paintings are inherently abstract to begin with
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因為所有的畫作都開始於一種與生俱來的抽象
03:42
there doesn't seem to be an argument there.
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所以實在沒有道理有任何爭議存在。
03:45
On another subject --
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換個話題，
03:48
(Laughter) --
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(笑聲)
03:51
I was driving in the country one day with my wife,
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有一天我和我太太在鄉間開著車，
03:55
and I saw this sign,
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我看到一個標誌，(可靠的荷蘭人 汽車維修廠)
03:57
and I said, "That is a fabulous piece of design."
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我說："這是一個很棒的設計。"
04:00
And she said, "What are you talking about?"
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她說："你在說些什麼?"
04:03
I said, "Well, it's so persuasive,
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我說"嗯，這標誌非常有說服力，
04:05
because the purpose of that sign is to get you into the garage,
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因為這標誌的目的就是希望你把車開進他的修車廠，
04:10
and since most people are so suspicious of garages,
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而大多數人都不相信修車廠，
04:15
and know that they're going to be ripped off,
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覺得進去之後都會被騙，
04:18
they use the word 'reliable.'
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他們用了"可靠的"這個詞。
04:21
But everybody says they're reliable.
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但每一個人都說他們是可靠的。
04:23
But, reliable Dutchman" --
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但是 "可靠的荷蘭人 (reliable Dutchman)" --
04:26
(Laughter) --
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(笑聲)
04:28
"Fantastic!"
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太了不起了!
04:30
Because as soon as you hear the word Dutchman --
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因為只要你聽到這詞"Dutchman"，
04:33
which is an archaic word, nobody calls Dutch people "Dutchmen" anymore --
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這是一個古老的用語，已經沒有人用這字稱呼荷蘭人了，
04:36
but as soon as you hear Dutchman,
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但是只要你聽到"Dutchman"
04:38
you get this picture of the kid with his finger in the dike,
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你腦中就會浮現一個小孩站在堤防前，
04:41
preventing the thing from falling and flooding Holland, and so on.
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用他的手指堵住堤防的裂縫，避免洪水淹沒荷蘭等等之類的事。
04:44
And so the entire issue is detoxified by the use of "Dutchman."
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所以說這整個問題都因為用了"Dutchman"而解套。
04:51
Now, if you think I'm exaggerating at all in this,
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如果你覺得這種說法太過誇大，
04:54
all you have to do is substitute something else, like "Indonesian."
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那你可以用其他字來取代它，像是"印尼人"。
04:58
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
05:06
Or even "French."
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或甚至是法國人。
05:09
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
05:14
Now, "Swiss" works, but you know it's going to cost a lot of money.
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瑞士人也可以，但你知道這將會花一大筆錢。
05:18
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
05:21
I'm going to take you quickly through the actual process of doing a poster.
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我將帶你們快速瀏覽海報創作的實際過程。
05:27
I do a lot of work for the School of Visual Arts, where I teach,
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在我任教於視覺藝術學院(SVA)時，我為了這間學校做很多作品。
05:30
and the director of this school -- a remarkable man named Silas Rhodes --
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這間學校的總監，一位很傑出的先生 - Silas Rhodes
05:33
often gives you a piece of text and he says, "Do something with this."
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經常給人一段文字，然後說"用這段話做些什麼。"
05:38
And so he did.
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他也這樣對我做過。
05:40
And this was the text -- "In words as fashion the same rule will hold/
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這段文字是"用詞和時尚皆擁有相同的規則，
05:43
Alike fantastic if too new or old/
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過於立異或守舊都同樣的荒唐，
05:44
Be not the first by whom the new are tried/
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不要第一個去嘗試標新的東西，
05:48
Nor yet the last to lay the old aside."
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也不要當最後墨守成規的俗人。"
05:51
I could make nothing of that.
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我不知道該怎麼做。
05:53
And I really struggled with this one.
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這讓我感到非常吃力。
05:55
And the first thing I did, which was sort of in the absence of another idea,
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最初我做的作品缺乏了想法，
05:58
was say I'll sort of write it out and make some words big,
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我就把他們寫出來，並且把某些字放大，
06:01
and I'll have some kind of design on the back somehow,
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然後大概對背景做了一些設計，
06:06
and I was hoping -- as one often does -- to stumble into something.
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如同其他人一樣，我希望從中激發出些靈感。
06:09
So I took another crack at it --
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然後我又做了其他的嘗試，
06:12
you've got to keep it moving --
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你必須一直嘗試。
06:14
and I Xeroxed some words on pieces of colored paper
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我把一些字印在不同的色紙上
06:16
and I pasted them down on an ugly board.
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然後我把他們貼在一個不怎樣的板子上。
06:19
I thought that something would come out of it,
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我想有些字會特別浮現出來，
06:22
like "Words rule fantastic new old first last Pope"
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像是"字、規則、完美、新、舊、第一、最後、波普"
06:25
because it's by Alexander Pope,
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因為這是出自亞歷山大.波普，
06:28
but I sort of made a mess out of it,
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但是也被我搞的有些雜亂，
06:30
and then I thought I'd repeat it in some way so it was legible.
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我想我可以依照這方式，讓他們更清楚。
06:32
So, it was going nowhere.
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但好像走進死胡同了。
06:35
Sometimes, in the middle of a resistant problem,
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有時候，在遇到這難纏的問題時，
06:39
I write down things that I know about it.
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我會寫下我所了解的部份。
06:42
But you can see the beginning of an idea there,
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你可以在上頭看到我一開始的想法，
06:44
because you can see the word "new" emerging from the "old."
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你可以看到"新(new)"從"舊(old)"浮現出來。
06:47
That's what happens.
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事情就是這樣發生了。
06:49
There's a relationship between the old and the new;
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舊（old）和新（new）有種聯繫，
06:52
the new emerges from the context of the old.
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"新（new）"是從"舊（old）" 這字中間浮現出來。
06:54
And then I did some variations of it,
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然後我做了一些變化。
06:56
but it still wasn't coalescing graphically at all.
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但是這樣的設計看起來一點都不協調。
07:00
I had this other version which had something interesting about it
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然後我做了另一個版本，加入一些有趣的想法
07:03
in terms of being able to put it together in your mind from clues.
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依據你所能收集線索把他們拼湊起來。
07:09
The W was clearly a W, the N was clearly an N,
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W清楚的顯示是個W，N也是一樣，
07:12
even though they were very fragmentary
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雖然他們非常的不完整，
07:16
and there wasn't a lot of information in it.
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也沒有太多的資訊在裡頭。
07:18
Then I got the words "new" and "old"
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然後我換種字型，
07:20
and now I had regressed back to a point where there seemed to be no return.
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但似乎我又走入了另一個死胡同。
07:25
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
07:27
I was really desperate at this point.
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這時候我真的感到非常的絕望。
07:30
And so, I do something I'm truthfully ashamed of,
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接下來我做了一些令人羞愧的事情，
07:34
which is that I took two drawings I had made for another purpose
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我拿了兩幅畫，這兩幅畫是為了其他事而作的
07:38
and I put them together.
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我把他們放在一起
07:43
It says "dreams" at the top.
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這是關於夢的畫。
07:46
And I was going to do a thing, I say, "Well, change the copy.
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然後我準備做件事情，我說："嗯，改變一下這個版本。
07:49
Let it say something about dreams, and come to SVA
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讓它說一些關於夢的事情，來視覺藝術學院
07:53
and you'll sort of fulfill your dreams."
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你將會實現你的夢想。"
07:55
But, to my credit,
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但是對我來說，
07:57
I was so embarrassed about doing that
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做這件事會讓我感到很不好意思，
08:00
that I never submitted this sketch.
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因此我從來沒有提出這份草稿。
08:04
And, finally, I arrived at the following solution.
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最後，我得到了以下的解答。
08:09
Now, it doesn't look terribly interesting,
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這看起來不是這麼有趣，
08:13
but it does have something
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但確實存在某些意思
08:16
that distinguishes it from a lot of other posters.
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在眾多海報中顯得與眾不同。
08:22
For one thing, it transgresses the idea of what a poster's supposed to be,
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但有一點，他違背了一張海報應有的特點，
08:26
which is to be understood and seen immediately, and not explained.
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一張海報應該可以馬上被人了解、看懂，而不需要額外的解釋。
08:34
I remember hearing all of you in the graphic arts --
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在平面藝術裡，大家都懂一個道理 -
08:37
"If you have to explain it, it ain't working."
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"如果還需要解釋，那就行不通了。"
08:40
And one day I woke up and I said, "Well, suppose that's not true?"
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但有一天我起床時，想到，"或許，這也不一定對？"
08:44
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
08:50
So here's what it says in my explanation at the bottom left.
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所以左下角有我寫的註解
08:55
It says, "Thoughts: This poem is impossible.
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這寫到 "思想：這首詩是不可能的。
09:01
Silas usually has a better touch with his choice of quotations.
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Silas常常對於他所選擇的引證有比較好的感受。
09:05
This one generates no imagery at all."
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但這首詩在我腦中產生不出一點影像。"
09:07
I am now exposing myself to my audience, right?
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我現在正在剖析自己給我的觀眾。對吧?
09:10
Which is something you never want to do professionally.
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這種事你絕對不會想要做的很專業。
09:13
"Maybe the words can make the image without anything else happening.
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"或許文字可以不需借助任何東西而變成圖像。
09:17
What's the heart of this poem?
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這首詩所要表達的是什麼?
09:19
Don't be trendy if you want to be serious.
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你要認真就不要趕潮流。
09:21
Is doing the poster this way trendy in itself?
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但製作廣告本身不就在趕潮流嗎？
09:24
I guess one could reduce the idea further
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我想我們可以簡化這個想法
09:26
by suggesting that the new emerges behind and through the old,
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假設"新"浮現在"舊"之後，然後穿越過，
09:30
like this."
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像是這個："
09:32
And then I show you a little drawing --
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我展示給你一些畫作 -
09:34
you see, you remember that old thing I discarded?
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你記得剛剛那些被我丟棄的作品嗎？
09:37
Well, I found a way to use it.
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嗯，我找到方法去利用他。
09:39
So, there's that little alternative over there,
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所以在這裡，我們有些不同的作法。
09:42
and I say, "Not bad," -- criticizing myself --
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我說"還不錯" - 我評論我自己
09:46
"but more didactic than visual.
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"但嘴巴上說得還是比看得到部份多。
09:49
Maybe what wants to be said is that old and the new are locked in a dialectical embrace,
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或許說這麼多，最重要的是新和舊互為唇齒。
09:52
a kind of dance where each defines the other."
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他們彼此共舞，相互輝映。"
09:54
And then more self-questioning -- "Am I being simple-minded?
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再一次的自我懷疑 -- "我是不是想簡單了呢?
09:58
Is this the kind of simple that looks obvious, or the kind that looks profound?
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這種所謂的"簡單"，到底是就是看起來明顯，還是那種看起來艱深的呢?
10:02
There's a significant difference.
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這中間有非常大的差異。
10:04
This could be embarrassing.
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這可以令人尷尬。
10:06
Actually, I realize fear of embarrassment drives me as much as any ambition.
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實際上，我明白驅動著我是這種令人為難的恐懼，野心反而是其次。
10:10
Do you think this sort of thing could really attract a student to the school?"
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你覺得這樣的東西可以吸引學生來學校嗎?“
10:14
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
10:21
Well, I think there are two fresh things here -- two fresh things.
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嗯，在這裡我想出現了兩個新的想法 -- 兩個嶄新的想法。
10:26
One is the sort of willingness to expose myself to a critical audience,
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其一是 - 樂意在挑剔的觀眾前面剖析自己，
10:33
and not to suggest that I am confident about what I'm doing.
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並且不去預設我對我所做的事情很有自信。
10:39
And as you know, you have to have a front.
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如你所知的，你必須朝向前方。
10:43
I mean -- you've got to be confident;
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我的意思是 - 你必須有自信。
10:45
if you don't believe in your work, who else is going to believe in it?
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如果你都不能相信你的作品，誰又能夠相信呢?
10:48
So that's one thing,
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這是一件，某程度上
10:50
to introduce the idea of doubt into graphics.
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介紹"對圖像抱懷疑理念"的事。
10:55
That can be a big contribution.
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這可以是個相當大的貢獻。
10:57
The other thing is to actually give you two solutions for the price of one;
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另一件事情是，用一個價錢，其實給自己提供兩個方案。
11:01
you get the big one
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你可以選一個比較偉大的
11:04
and if you don't like that, how about the little one?
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如果你不喜歡那個，那選小巧的如何？
11:07
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
11:09
And that too is a relatively new idea.
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這也是較為新的想法。
11:12
And here's just a series of experiments
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這裡有一系列的實驗
11:15
where I ask the question of -- does a poster have to be square?
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這裡我問我自己，海報一定要是方正的嗎？
11:20
Now, this is a little illusion.
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這個讓你有些錯覺。
11:23
That poster is not folded.
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這海報沒有被摺疊。
11:25
It's not folded, that's a photograph
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真的沒有摺疊，這就是一張圖片。
11:28
and it's cut on the diagonal.
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只是在對角線上被切割了。
11:31
Same cheap trick in the upper left-hand corner.
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同樣的招式用在左上角。
11:36
And here,
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而這個，
11:38
a very peculiar poster because,
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一個非常特殊的海報，
11:40
simply because of using the isometric perspective in the computer,
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因為它用了電腦上的等角投影法，
11:45
it won't sit still in the space.
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它不是很穩固的放在半空中。
11:48
At times, it seems to be wider at the back than the front,
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它似乎後面比前面更寬些，
11:51
and then it shifts.
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有一些位移。
11:53
And if you sit here long enough, it'll float off the page into the audience.
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如果你坐在這裡夠久，他會從紙浮出來到你們面前。
11:58
But, we don't have time.
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但我們沒有這麼多的時間。
12:00
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
12:01
And then an experiment --
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接著另一個實驗 -
12:03
a little bit about the nature of perspective,
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用到一點關於透視法的特性，
12:06
where the outside shape is determined by the peculiarity of perspective,
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外部的形狀被透視法的特性所決定了
12:10
but the shape of the bottle -- which is identical to the outside shape --
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但是瓶子的形狀 -- 他與外部的形狀是一樣的 --
12:14
is seen frontally.
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看似立體而面向你的。
12:16
And another piece for the art directors' club
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另一幅作品是為了藝術總監俱樂部所作的
12:20
is "Anna Rees" casting long shadows.
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是Anna Rees投射出長長的影子。
12:24
This is another poster from the School of Visual Arts.
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這張海報不是出自於視覺藝術學院。
12:27
There were 10 artists invited to participate in it,
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有十位藝術家被邀請參與這個活動，
12:32
and it was one of those things where it was extremely competitive
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這是其中一件非常有競爭性的事情，
12:34
and I didn't want to be embarrassed,
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我不希望丟臉，
12:36
so I worked very hard on this.
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所以我很認真的去創作。
12:39
The idea was -- and it was a brilliant idea --
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這構想 - 這是一個非常出色的構想 -
12:41
was to have 10 posters distributed throughout the city's subway system
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讓十張海報散佈於城市的地鐵系統裡，
12:45
so every time you got on the subway you'd be passing a different poster,
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所以每次搭乘地鐵時，就會經過不同的海報，
12:49
all of which had a different idea of what art is.
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而這些海報對於"藝術是什麼"有不同的詮釋。
12:53
But I was absolutely stuck on the idea of "art is"
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但我完全被"藝術是"(art is)困住了
12:59
and trying to determine what art was.
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我嘗試去決定藝術就是這樣。
13:03
But then I gave up and I said, "Well, art is whatever."
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但我放棄了，我說："嗯，藝術是什麼都可以(art is whatever)。"
13:07
And as soon as I said that,
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當我一說出這句話時，
13:09
I discovered that the word "hat" was hidden in the word "whatever,"
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我發現 "帽子（hat）“這字藏在”什麼都可以（whatever）“ 裡頭。
13:12
and that led me to the inevitable conclusion.
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這引導我到一個必然的結論裡。
13:15
But then again, it's on my list of didactic posters.
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而且再一次，這成為我說教海報的其中之一。
13:19
My intent is to have a literary accompaniment that explains the poster,
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我意圖利用文學來解釋這幅海報，
13:23
in case you don't get it.
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以防你不了解這海報到底是什麼意思。
13:26
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
13:28
Now this says, "Note to the viewer:
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這裡說，" 觀眾注意 --
13:30
I thought I might use a visual cliche of our time -- Magritte's everyman --
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我想我運用了一個在現在用到爛的意象，馬格利特(René François Ghislain Magritte)的戴黑帽的男人。
13:33
to express the idea that art is mystery, continuity and history.
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來表達一個概念：藝術是神秘、連續和歷史的。
13:37
I'm also convinced that, in an age of computer manipulation,
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我也被說服這是一個電腦主宰的時代，
13:40
surrealism has become banal,
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超現實主義已經不算什麼了，
13:43
a shadow of its former self.
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變為之前自己的影子了。
13:45
The phrase 'Art is whatever'
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這句 "藝術是什麼都可以 (art is whatever)"
13:47
expresses the current inclusiveness that surrounds art-making --
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表達出現今藝術實踐的各種包容性、可能性 -
13:50
a sort of 'it ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it' notion.
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不關乎於你怎麼做，而關於你的概念、想法、見解。
13:53
The shadow of Magritte falls across the central part of the poster
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馬格利特的影子落在海報中間的部份
13:57
a poetic event that occurs as the shadow man isolates the word 'hat,'
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有種詩意的感覺，影子把 ”帽子（hat）“ 這字隔離起來，
14:02
hidden in the word 'whatever.'
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藏在”什麼都可以（whatever）”中。
14:04
The four hats shown in the poster suggests how art might be defined:
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顯示在海報中的帽子暗示藝術或許可以被定義
14:07
as a thing itself, the worth of the thing, the shadow of the thing,
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成為東西的本身，他的價值，他的影子，
14:11
and the shape of the thing.
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和他的形狀。
14:13
Whatever."
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什麼都可以。
14:15
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
14:16
OK.
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好
14:17
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
14:22
And the one that I did not submit,
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還有一幅我沒有交出去，
14:25
which I still like,
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可我還是很喜歡。
14:27
I wanted to use the same phrase.
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我想用相同的詞彙 --
14:29
There were wonderful experiments by Bruno Munari
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在幾年前Bruno Munari創造一個很棒的試驗，
14:35
on letterforms some years ago --
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一種字的形式 --
14:37
sort of, see how far you could go and still be able to read them.
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測試文字被拆解到什麼程度，還可以看得懂。
14:39
And that idea stuck in my head.
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這主意一直存在我腦中。
14:41
But then I took the pieces that I had taken off and put them at the bottom.
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不過之後，我把我去掉的部份放在海報的下方。
14:46
And, of course those are the remains, and they're so labeled.
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然而，當然這些剩下的部份，還是很有含意的。
14:51
But what really happens is that you read it as:
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而實際上你可以把它讀成 --
14:54
"Art is whatever remains."
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"藝術是剩下什麼都可以 (Art is whatever remains)。"
14:57
Thank you.
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謝謝。
14:59
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Milton Glaser - Graphic designerIf his career began and ended with "I [heart] N Y," Milton Glaser would still be a legend. But over his multi-decade career, his body of work is sprinkled with similarly iconic images and logos.
Why you should listen
Milton Glaser's work is easy to spot in a lineup -- it's simple, direct and clear, while leaping over conceptual boundaries, so that his work connects directly to the viewer like a happy virus. His best-known work may be the I [heart] N Y logo -- an image so ubiquitous, it's hard to believe there was a time when it didn't exist.
Glaser's other well-known work includes a cache of posters that defined the style of the '60s and early '70s, and numerous logos, including such instantly familiar identities as Barron's and the Brooklyn Brewery. He is a co-founder of New York magazine and helped set that magazine's honest and irreverent tone.
Recently he's been exploring the space where paintings and graphic design meet. A show in 2007 celebrated his explorations of Piero della Francesca's work. The 2009 film To Inform and Delight: The World of Milton Glaser tells the story of his celebrated career.
Milton Glaser | Speaker | TED.com