TEDMED 2018
Emily F. Rothman: How porn changes the way teens think about sex
艾蜜莉 F. 羅斯曼: 色情如何改變青少年對於性的想法
Filmed:
Readability: 4.8
2,440,511 views
「免費、線上的主流色情產品，是青少年最有可能看見的類型，它完全是一種非常糟糕的性教育形式。」公共衛生研究者艾蜜莉 F. 羅斯曼說。她分享了她的使命－終結約會暴力和性暴力－如何引導她去創造出一個分析色情產品的知識課程，來協助青少年學習同意和尊重－並請他們對露骨的性產業媒體做出嚴謹、批判性的思考。
Emily Rothman - Public health researcher
Boston University professor Emily F. Rothman is a leading public health scholar on sexually explicit media and its impact on adolescent dating relationships. Full bio
Boston University professor Emily F. Rothman is a leading public health scholar on sexually explicit media and its impact on adolescent dating relationships. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
[This talk contains mature content]
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〔本演說含有成人內容〕
00:17
Six years ago,
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六年前，
00:18
I discovered something that scientists
have been wanting to know for years.
have been wanting to know for years.
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我發現了某件科學家多年來
一直想要知道的事。
一直想要知道的事。
00:23
How do you capture the attention
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你如何吸引滿屋子中
00:25
of a roomful of extremely bored teenagers?
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無聊透頂的青少年們的注意力？
00:29
It turns out all you have to do
is mention the word pornography.
is mention the word pornography.
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結果發現，你只要做一件事，
就是提到「色情」這個詞。
就是提到「色情」這個詞。
00:33
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
00:34
Let me tell you how I first learned this.
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讓我告訴你最初我是怎麼發現的。
00:37
In 2012, I was sitting in a crowded room
full of high school students
full of high school students
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2012 年，我坐在一間
滿是高中生的擁擠房間中，
滿是高中生的擁擠房間中，
00:41
who were attending
an after-school program in Boston.
an after-school program in Boston.
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他們是去參加個課後活動，
地點在波士頓。
地點在波士頓。
00:43
And my job, as guest speaker for the day,
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身為當天的客座講者，我的工作
00:46
was to inspire them to think
about how exciting it would be
about how exciting it would be
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就是要鼓勵他們去思考
投入公共衛生的職涯
是多麼讓人興奮。
是多麼讓人興奮。
00:49
to have a career in public health.
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00:52
The problem was,
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問題是，
00:53
as I looked at their faces,
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當我看著他們的臉，
00:54
I could see that their eyes
were glazing over,
were glazing over,
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我看得出來他們目光呆滯，
00:57
and they were just tuning out.
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他們已經充耳不聞。
00:59
It didn't even matter that I wore
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即使那天我穿著自認為很酷的服裝，
01:01
what I thought was
my cool outfit that day.
my cool outfit that day.
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也沒有任何幫助。
01:05
I was just losing my audience.
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我就要失去我的聽眾了。
01:07
So, then one of the two adults
who worked for the program said,
who worked for the program said,
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於是，成年活動工作人員的
兩者之一問道：
01:11
"Aren't you doing some research
about pornography?
about pornography?
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「你不是有做一些關於色情的研究嗎？
01:13
Maybe tell them about that."
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也許可以跟他們談那些。」
01:16
All of a sudden, that room
full of high school students exploded
full of high school students exploded
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突然，那間滿是高中生的房間
歡聲雷動，大家互相擊掌。
01:20
into laughter, high fives.
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01:22
I think there were some
loud hooting noises.
loud hooting noises.
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我認為還有一些很大的噓叫聲。
01:25
And all anyone had done
was say that one word -- pornography.
was say that one word -- pornography.
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一切都只是因為有人說了
「色情」這個詞。
「色情」這個詞。
01:30
That moment would prove to be
an important turning point
an important turning point
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事實證明，那一刻
是個重要的轉捩點，
是個重要的轉捩點，
01:32
for me and my professional mission
of finding solutions
of finding solutions
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改變了我和我專業使命：
找出終結約會暴力
和性暴力的解決方案。
和性暴力的解決方案。
01:35
to end dating and sexual violence.
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01:38
At that point, I'd been working
for more than a decade
for more than a decade
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那時，我已經投入十多年的時間
01:41
on this seemingly intractable problem
of dating violence.
of dating violence.
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在處理看似很棘手的約會暴力問題。
01:45
Data from the US Centers
for Disease Control and Prevention
for Disease Control and Prevention
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美國疾病管制與預防中心的資料顯示，
01:48
demonstrate that one in five
high school-attending youth
high school-attending youth
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每年在美國，每五位高中生就有一位
01:52
experience physical and/or sexual abuse
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會遭到約會對象
施以身體及／或性虐待。
施以身體及／或性虐待。
01:56
by a dating partner each year in the US.
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01:59
That makes dating violence more prevalent
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在同樣的年輕族群中，
02:02
than being bullied on school property,
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約會暴力比在校內的霸凌還更普遍，
02:04
seriously considering suicide,
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也多過慎重思考想要自殺
或甚至抽電子香菸的人數比例。
或甚至抽電子香菸的人數比例。
02:07
or even vaping,
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02:08
in that same population.
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02:10
But solutions were proving elusive.
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但已證明很難找到解決方案。
02:13
And I was working with a research team
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我和一個研究團隊合作，
02:15
that was hunting
for novel answers to the question:
for novel answers to the question:
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該團隊的宗旨是在為
這個問題找出新穎的答案：
這個問題找出新穎的答案：
02:18
What's causing dating abuse,
and how do we stop it?
and how do we stop it?
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造成約會暴力的原因為何
以及我們要如何阻止它？
以及我們要如何阻止它？
02:22
One of the research studies
that we were working on at the time
that we were working on at the time
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當時我們所進行的一個研究項目
02:25
happened to include
a few questions about pornography.
a few questions about pornography.
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剛好涵蓋了幾個和色情有關的問題。
02:28
And something unexpected
was emerging from our findings.
was emerging from our findings.
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從我們的研究結果中，
發現了未預期的現象。
發現了未預期的現象。
02:32
Eleven percent of the teen
girls in our sample
girls in our sample
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我們的樣本中有 11% 的青少女
02:36
reported that they had been
forced or threatened
forced or threatened
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據報說她們曾經被強迫或遭威脅
02:39
to do sexual things that
the perpetrator saw in pornography.
the perpetrator saw in pornography.
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去做犯罪者在色情產品中
看過的性行為。
看過的性行為。
02:44
That got me curious.
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那激起了我的好奇心。
02:46
Was pornography to blame
for any percentage of dating violence?
for any percentage of dating violence?
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約會暴力要歸咎於色情產品嗎？
02:51
Or was it more like a coincidence
that the pornography users
that the pornography users
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還是恰巧色情產品的使用者
02:55
also happen to be more likely
to be in unhealthy relationships?
to be in unhealthy relationships?
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更可能是處於不健康關係的那些人？
02:59
I investigated by reading
everything that I could
everything that I could
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我藉著閱讀同儕審查的文獻，
03:02
from the peer-reviewed literature,
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03:04
and by conducting my own research.
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和自己所進行的研究，
來調查、探討這些問題。
來調查、探討這些問題。
03:06
I wanted to know
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我想知道，年輕人看的
是哪種露骨的色情媒體、
是哪種露骨的色情媒體、
03:08
what kinds of sexually explicit media
youth were watching,
youth were watching,
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03:10
and how often and why,
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觀看的次數、原因，
03:12
and see if I could piece together
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想知道我能不能拼湊出色情是否是
03:14
if it was part of the reason
that for so many of them
that for so many of them
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這麼多年輕人的約會關係
顯然不健康的原因之一。
顯然不健康的原因之一。
03:16
dating relationships
were apparently unhealthy.
were apparently unhealthy.
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03:20
As I read, I tried to keep an open mind,
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我在閱讀時，盡量保持開放心態，
03:24
even though there were
plenty of members of the public
plenty of members of the public
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即使有很多社會大眾
03:26
who'd already made up
their mind about the issue.
their mind about the issue.
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對於這個議題已經自有定見。
03:29
Why would I keep an open mind
about pornography?
about pornography?
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我為什麼要對色情保持開放心態？
03:33
Well, I'm a trained social scientist,
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我是位訓練有素的社會科學家，
03:35
so it's my job to be objective.
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所以我的工作就是要保持客觀。
03:38
But I'm also what people
call sex-positive.
call sex-positive.
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但，我也有所謂積極正面的性態度。
03:42
That means that
I fully support people's right
I fully support people's right
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意思就是，我完全支持人們有權
03:45
to enjoy whatever kind of sex life
and sexuality they find fulfilling,
and sexuality they find fulfilling,
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享受他們自己覺得很滿足的
那種性生活和性行為，
那種性生活和性行為，
03:50
no matter what it involves,
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不論是怎樣的，
只要得到參與各方的熱情同意即可。
03:52
as long as it includes
the enthusiastic consent
the enthusiastic consent
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03:55
of all parties involved.
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03:57
That said, I personally wasn't inclined
towards watching pornography.
towards watching pornography.
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即使如此，我個人
並不傾向去看色情片。
並不傾向去看色情片。
04:02
I'd seen some, didn't really
do anything for me.
do anything for me.
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我看過一些，對我沒起什麼作用。
04:05
And as a mom of two
soon-to-be teenage children,
soon-to-be teenage children,
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身為兩個即將踏入青少年小孩的媽，
04:08
I had my own concerns
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我有我個人的擔憂，
04:10
about what seeing pornography
could do to them.
could do to them.
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擔心看色情產品
會對他們造成什麼影響。
會對他們造成什麼影響。
04:14
I noticed that while
there were a lot of people
there were a lot of people
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我注意到，雖然
有很多人會譴責色情產品，
有很多人會譴責色情產品，
04:16
who were denouncing pornography,
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04:18
there were also people
who were staunch defenders of it
who were staunch defenders of it
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但也有出於各種理由
而非常堅定捍衛著它的守護者。
而非常堅定捍衛著它的守護者。
04:20
for a variety of reasons.
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04:22
So in my scholarly exploration,
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在我的學術探索中，
04:25
I genuinely tried to understand:
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我真的想要了解：
04:28
Was pornography bad for you
or was it good for you?
or was it good for you?
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色情對你是有好處還是壞處？
04:32
Was it misogynist or was it empowering?
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它是在仇視女性，
還是能賦權給女性？
還是能賦權給女性？
04:36
And there was not one singular answer
that emerged clearly.
that emerged clearly.
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沒有單一個答案清楚浮現。
04:41
There was one longitudinal study
that had me really worried,
that had me really worried,
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有一項縱貫性研究真的讓我很擔心，
04:44
that showed that teenagers
who saw pornography
who saw pornography
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該研究顯示，看了色情片的青少年
04:48
were subsequently more likely
to perpetrate sexual violence.
to perpetrate sexual violence.
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之後更有可能犯下性暴力的罪行。
04:51
But the design of the study
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但該研究的設計並沒有辦法
導出明確因果關係的結論。
導出明確因果關係的結論。
04:53
didn't allow for definitive
causal conclusions.
causal conclusions.
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04:56
And there were other studies
that did not find
that did not find
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還有其他研究，並沒有發現
青春期接觸色情產品
會和某種負面的結果有關。
會和某種負面的結果有關。
04:59
that adolescent pornography use
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05:01
was associated with certain
negative outcomes.
negative outcomes.
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即便如此，還是有其他研究
發現它和負面結果有關。
發現它和負面結果有關。
05:04
Even though there were other studies
that did find that.
that did find that.
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05:06
But as I spoke to other experts,
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但我和其他專家談過，
05:08
I felt tremendous pressure
to pick a side about pornography.
to pick a side about pornography.
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要我針對色情選邊站，
我感到很大的壓力。
我感到很大的壓力。
05:14
Join one team or the other.
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加入這隊或另一隊。
05:16
I was even told that
it was weak-minded of me
it was weak-minded of me
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甚至有人告訴我，我心智薄弱
05:19
not to be able to pick out the one
correct answer about pornography.
correct answer about pornography.
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才會無法針對色情選出一個正確答案。
05:24
And it was complicated,
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這很複雜，
05:25
because there is an industry
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因為有一個產業
05:28
that is capitalizing
off of audience's fascination
off of audience's fascination
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是靠著觀眾對女性的迷戀
與幻想來賺大錢，
與幻想來賺大錢，
05:31
with seeing women, in particular,
not just having sex,
not just having sex,
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特別的是，不僅僅只是性行為，
05:36
but being chocked, gagged, slapped,
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還有被掐住、被塞住嘴巴、
被賞巴掌、被吐口水、被射精，
05:41
spit upon, ejaculated upon,
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05:44
called degrading names
over and over during sex,
over and over during sex,
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在性行為過程中不斷地
用卑劣的用語辱罵女性，
用卑劣的用語辱罵女性，
05:48
and not always clearly with their consent.
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且不見得都有明確得到她們的同意。
05:51
Most people would agree
that we have a serious problem
that we have a serious problem
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大部分人會認同，
我們在這個國家中
我們在這個國家中
05:55
with misogyny, sexual violence
and rape in this country,
and rape in this country,
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有仇視女性、性暴力，
和強暴的嚴重問題，
和強暴的嚴重問題，
05:59
and pornography probably
isn't helping with any of that.
isn't helping with any of that.
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而色情產品可能一點忙也沒幫到。
06:03
And a critically important
problem to me was that
problem to me was that
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對我來說，有個非常重要的問題，
06:06
for more than a century,
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超過一世紀之久，
06:08
the anti-pornography position
had been used as a pretext
had been used as a pretext
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反色情的立場都一直被用來當作
06:12
for discriminating
against gays and lesbians
against gays and lesbians
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歧視男同志和女同志，
06:16
or people who have kinks or have fetishes.
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或有怪癖或戀物傾向的人的藉口。
06:18
So I could see why, on the one hand,
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一方面，我能理解為什麼
06:20
we might be very worried about
the messages that pornography is sending,
the messages that pornography is sending,
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我們會非常擔心色情產品傳遞的訊息，
06:25
and on the other hand,
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另一方面，
06:26
why we might be really worried
about going overboard indicting it.
about going overboard indicting it.
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也能理解為什麼
我們會擔心過分控訴它。
我們會擔心過分控訴它。
06:30
For the next two years,
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在接下來兩年，
06:32
I looked into every scary,
horrifying claim that I could find
horrifying claim that I could find
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我去研究了我所能找到的
各種可怕、嚇人的主張，
各種可怕、嚇人的主張，
06:37
about the average age
at which people first see pornography,
at which people first see pornography,
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都是關於大家第一次
接觸到色情產品的平均年齡，
接觸到色情產品的平均年齡，
06:41
or what it does to their brains
or their sexuality.
or their sexuality.
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或者它對他們的大腦
或性行為造成什麼影響。
或性行為造成什麼影響。
06:45
Here's what I have to report back.
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我所得到的資訊如下。
06:47
The free, online, mainstream pornography,
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免費、線上的主流色情產品，
06:51
that's the kind that teenagers
are most likely to see,
are most likely to see,
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那是青少年最可能會看見的類型，
06:54
is a completely terrible form
of sex education.
of sex education.
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它是一種最糟糕的性教育形式。
06:58
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
07:03
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
07:08
But that's not what it was intended for.
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但它原本的目就不是要教導性教育。
07:12
And it probably is not
instantly poisoning their minds
instantly poisoning their minds
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它可能也不會馬上毒害他們的大腦，
07:17
or turning them into compulsive users,
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或者將他們變成強迫型使用者，
有些倡導家會試圖
用上述這些說詞來說服各位。
用上述這些說詞來說服各位。
07:19
the way that some ideologues
would have you believe.
would have you believe.
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07:22
It's a rare person who doesn't see
some pornography in their youth.
some pornography in their youth.
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只有很少數的人在年輕時
沒有看過色情作品。
沒有看過色情作品。
07:27
By the time they're 18 years old,
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到了十八歲時，
07:29
93 percent of first year college males
and 62 percent of females
and 62 percent of females
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大學新鮮人中，
93% 男性和 62% 女性
93% 男性和 62% 女性
07:34
have seen pornography at least once.
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都至少看過一次色情作品。
07:37
And though people like to say
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雖然大家會說
07:38
that the internet has made
pornography ubiquitous,
pornography ubiquitous,
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網路讓色情無所不在，
07:42
or basically guarantees
that any young child
that any young child
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或基本上保證任何一個孩子
07:46
who's handed a smartphone
is definitely going to see pornography,
is definitely going to see pornography,
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只要有智慧手機
就一定會看到色情片，
就一定會看到色情片，
07:50
data don't really support that.
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資料並不支持這種說法。
07:52
A nationally representative study
found that in the year 2000
found that in the year 2000
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一項有全國代表性的研究
發現，在 2000 年，
發現，在 2000 年，
07:56
16 percent of 10-to-13-year-old youth
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十到十三歲的孩子中，有 16%
07:59
reported that they'd seen
pornography in the past year.
pornography in the past year.
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說他們在去年有看過色情作品。
08:02
And by 2010, that figure had increased.
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到了 2010 年，那個數字增加了。
08:06
But only to 30 percent.
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但只增加到 30%。
08:07
So it wasn't everybody.
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所以不是每個人都會。
08:10
Our problems with adolescents
and sexual violence perpetration
and sexual violence perpetration
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青少年和性暴力犯罪的問題
08:14
is not only because of pornography.
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並不只是因為色情。
08:16
In fact, a recent study
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事實上，一項近期的研究發現
08:18
found that adolescents
are more likely to see sexualized images
are more likely to see sexualized images
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青少年更有可能
在色情產品以外的
其他類型媒體上看到色情圖像。
其他類型媒體上看到色情圖像。
08:21
in other kinds of media
besides pornography.
besides pornography.
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08:25
Think about all those
sexualized video games,
sexualized video games,
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想想看那些含有性暗示的電玩遊戲，
08:28
or TV shows, or music videos.
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或者電視節目，
或者音樂影片（MV）。
或者音樂影片（MV）。
08:31
And it could be exposure
to a steady stream of violent media
to a steady stream of violent media
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它可能源源不斷地在強勢媒體中曝光，
08:36
that instead of or in addition to
the sexualized images
the sexualized images
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而不是／不僅是色情圖像，
08:40
is causing our problems.
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造成我們的問題。
08:42
By focusing on the potential harms
of pornography alone,
of pornography alone,
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單單把焦點放在色情產品
會帶來的潛在傷害，
會帶來的潛在傷害，
08:48
we may be distracting ourselves
from bigger issues.
from bigger issues.
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可能讓我們無法看到更大的議題。
08:52
Or missing root causes
of dating and sexual violence,
of dating and sexual violence,
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或者漏掉了約會暴力
及性暴力的根本原因，
及性暴力的根本原因，
08:56
which are the true public health crises.
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這才是真正的公共衛生危機。
08:59
That said, even my own research
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也就是說，就連我自己的研究
09:01
demonstrates that adolescents
are turning to pornography
are turning to pornography
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也顯示出青少年開始把色情作品
09:05
for education and information about sex.
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當作性教育和知識的來源。
09:08
And that's because they can't find
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那是因為他們無法在其他地方
09:10
reliable and factual
information elsewhere.
information elsewhere.
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找到可靠、真實的資訊。
09:13
Less than 50 percent of the states
in the United States
in the United States
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美國只有不到一半的州
09:17
require that sex education
be taught in schools,
be taught in schools,
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要求學校要教性教育，
09:21
including how to prevent coerced sex.
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包括如何預防強迫性行為。
09:24
And less than half of those states
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在那些州當中，又只有不到一半的州
09:26
require that the information presented
be medically accurate.
be medically accurate.
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會要求呈現出來的資訊
具醫學的準確性。
具醫學的準確性。
09:32
So in that Boston after-school program,
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所以，在波士頓的
那個課後活動方案中，
那個課後活動方案中，
09:34
those kids really wanted
to talk about sex,
to talk about sex,
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那些孩子真的想要談談性，
09:37
and they really wanted
to talk about pornography.
to talk about pornography.
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他們真的想要談談色情。
09:39
And they wanted to talk about those things
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比起約會暴力或性暴力，
09:41
a whole lot more than they wanted
to talk about dating or sexual violence.
to talk about dating or sexual violence.
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他們更想要談談那些議題。
09:45
So we realized,
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所以，我們發現，
09:46
we could cover all of the same topics
that we might normally talk about
that we might normally talk about
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我們可以用上健康關係教育的名義，
09:51
under the guise of healthy
relationships education,
relationships education,
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來談論所有那些相同的主題，
09:54
like, what's a definition
of sexual consent?
of sexual consent?
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比如，性同意的定義是什麼？
09:57
Or, how do you know
if you're hurting somebody during sex?
if you're hurting somebody during sex?
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或你要如何知道在性行為
過程中你已經傷到對方了？
過程中你已經傷到對方了？
10:01
Or what are healthy boundaries to have
when you're flirting?
when you're flirting?
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又或者在調情時的健康界線到哪裡？
10:04
All of these same things we could discuss
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我們要討論上述所有這些主題時，
10:07
by using pornography
as the jumping-off point
as the jumping-off point
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都可以用色情當作起始點，
10:11
for our conversation.
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開啟我們的對話。
10:12
It's sort of like when adults
give kids a desert like brownies,
give kids a desert like brownies,
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這有點像是成人會
給孩子像是布朗尼的點心，
給孩子像是布朗尼的點心，
10:16
but they secretly baked a zucchini
or something healthy inside of it.
or something healthy inside of it.
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但他們會偷偷把櫛瓜
或有益健康的東西放在裡面。
或有益健康的東西放在裡面。
10:19
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
10:21
We could talk to the kids
about the healthy stuff,
about the healthy stuff,
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我們能和孩子們談
健康、有助益的內容，
10:25
the stuff that's good for you,
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10:26
but hide it inside a conversation
that was about something
that was about something
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但把這些都包裝在一個
他們會想要去談論的對話當中。
10:29
that they thought
they wanted to be talking about.
they wanted to be talking about.
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10:32
We also discovered something
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我們也有一個無預期的發現，
10:33
that we didn't necessarily
set out to find,
set out to find,
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10:36
which is that there's a fantastic way
to have a conversation with teenagers
to have a conversation with teenagers
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那就是有一種很棒的方法，
可以和青少年來探討色情。
10:41
about pornography.
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10:43
And that is,
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那方法就是，
10:44
keep the conversation true to science.
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確保談話都有科學根據。
10:47
Admit what we know and what we don't know
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承認對於色情所帶來的影響
我們已知和不知道的部分。
10:50
about the impact of pornography.
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10:52
Talk about where there are mixed results
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談談可能會有混雜的結果，
10:56
or where there are weaknesses
in the studies that have been conducted.
in the studies that have been conducted.
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或已進行的研究中存在的缺失之處。
11:01
Invite the adolescents
to become critical consumers
to become critical consumers
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邀請青少年成為色情研究文獻
11:04
of the research literature on pornography,
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以及色情產品本身的重要消費者。
11:07
as well as the pornography itself.
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11:09
That really fits
with adolescent development.
with adolescent development.
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那真的符合青春期的發展。
11:13
Adolescents like to question things
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青少年喜歡質疑事物，
11:15
and they like to be invited
to think for themselves.
to think for themselves.
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他們也喜歡受邀為他們自己思考。
11:19
And we realized by starting to experiment,
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我們透過實驗瞭解到，
11:22
teaching some classes in consent,
respect and pornography,
respect and pornography,
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在教導學生們同意、尊重和色情時，
11:26
that trying to scare adolescents
into a particular point of view
into a particular point of view
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試圖用恫嚇的方式
灌輸青少年某種觀點，
灌輸青少年某種觀點，
11:31
or jam a one-sided argument
down their throat about pornography
down their throat about pornography
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或強迫他們接受單一面向的色情論點，
11:37
not only probably does not work,
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不僅大概行不通，
11:41
but really doesn't model
the kind of respectful,
the kind of respectful,
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同時也沒有以身作責，
示範我們希望他們能學到
示範我們希望他們能學到
11:45
consensual behavior
that we want them to learn.
that we want them to learn.
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帶著尊重且雙方皆同意的態度行為。
11:48
So our approach, what we call
pornography literacy,
pornography literacy,
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我們的方法稱為色情產品知識，
11:53
is about presenting the truth
about pornography
about pornography
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它的重點在於，
在我們所知的範圍內，
在我們所知的範圍內，
鑒於證據不斷改變的基礎下，
11:56
to the best of our knowledge,
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11:58
given that there is
an ever-changing evidence base.
an ever-changing evidence base.
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盡可能呈現出色情產品的背後真相。
12:02
When people hear that we teach
a nine-session, 18-hour class
a nine-session, 18-hour class
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當別人聽到我們安排
十八小時共九堂課
十八小時共九堂課
12:07
in pornography literacy to teenagers,
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來教導青少年分析色情產品的知識時，
12:09
I think that they either think
that we're sitting kids down
that we're sitting kids down
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我想，他們若不是認為
我們是要孩子坐下來，
我們是要孩子坐下來，
12:12
and trying to show them
how to watch pornography,
how to watch pornography,
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試圖教他們如何看色情片，
12:15
which is not what we do,
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其實我們不會這麼做，
12:17
or that we're part of
an anti-pornography activist group
an anti-pornography activist group
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3351
要不然就認為我們是
反色情活動團體的人，
反色情活動團體的人，
12:21
that's trying to convince them
that if they ever saw pornography,
that if they ever saw pornography,
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在試圖說服青少年，
色情片是影響健康的頭號敵人。
12:24
it would be the number one
worst thing for their health ever.
worst thing for their health ever.
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12:27
And that's not it, either.
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我們也不會這樣做。
12:28
Our secret ingredient
is that we're nonjudgmental.
is that we're nonjudgmental.
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我們的秘密成份是：
我們不會評斷。
我們不會評斷。
12:32
We don't think that youth
should be watching pornography.
should be watching pornography.
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我們不認為年輕人應該看色情片。
12:36
But, above all, we want them
to become critical thinkers
to become critical thinkers
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但，我們希望他們如果
真的看到了色情片，
真的看到了色情片，
首先要能夠做出批評性的思考。
12:40
if and when they do see it.
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12:43
And we've learned,
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我們發現，
12:44
from the number of requests
for our curriculum and our training,
for our curriculum and our training,
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根據全美各地和其他地方
12:47
from across the US and beyond,
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對課程和訓練的需求量來看，
12:50
that there are a lot of parents
and a lot of teachers
and a lot of teachers
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我們發現其實有很多父母和老師
12:54
who really do want to be having
these more nuanced
these more nuanced
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都真的想要針對色情，
跟青少年做更細微、更真實的對談。
12:57
and realistic conversations
with teenagers about pornography.
with teenagers about pornography.
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13:01
We've had requests from Utah to Vermont,
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我們接到的請求，
從猶他州到佛蒙特州、
從猶他州到佛蒙特州、
13:06
to Alabama, to Hawaii.
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到阿拉巴馬州、到夏威夷。
13:09
So in that after-school program,
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所以，在那課後活動專案中，
13:12
what I saw, is that from the minute
we mentioned the word pornography,
we mentioned the word pornography,
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我看到的是，從我們
提到「色情」一詞開始，
提到「色情」一詞開始，
13:16
those kids were ready
to jump in to a back-and-forth
to jump in to a back-and-forth
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那些孩子已經開始你來我往，
13:20
about what they did
and didn't want to see in pornography,
and didn't want to see in pornography,
249
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談論他們想要和不想要
在色情片中看到什麼，
在色情片中看到什麼，
13:24
and what they did
and didn't want to do during sex.
and didn't want to do during sex.
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以及在性愛的過程中
他們想要和不想要做什麼。
他們想要和不想要做什麼。
13:27
And what was degrading to women
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也談到怎樣是貶低女性，
13:30
or unfair to men or racist, all of it.
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或對男性不公平，或有種族主義，
所有這些都有談到。
所有這些都有談到。
13:33
And they made some
really sophisticated points.
really sophisticated points.
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他們還有一些很精湛的論點。
13:36
Exactly the kinds of things that
we would want them to be talking about
we would want them to be talking about
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這些正是身為預防暴力活動家的我們
13:40
as violence prevention activists.
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希望他們能夠去談論的主題。
13:43
And as teachers, we might leave
the class one day and think,
the class one day and think,
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身為老師，可能有一天
我們離開教室時，會想：
我們離開教室時，會想：
13:47
"It is really sad that there's
that one boy in our class
that one boy in our class
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「真悲哀，我們班上有一個男孩
13:51
who thinks that all women
have orgasms from anal sex."
have orgasms from anal sex."
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認為所有的女性都是
從肛交產生高潮的。」
從肛交產生高潮的。」
13:56
And we might leave class
the next week and think,
the next week and think,
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可能下週我們離開教室時，會想：
13:59
"I'm really glad that there's
that one kid in our class who's gay,
that one kid in our class who's gay,
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4101
「我很高興我們班上
有一個同性戀孩子說，
有一個同性戀孩子說，
14:04
who said that seeing his sexuality
represented in pornography
represented in pornography
261
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在色情中看到他的性向被描繪出來，
14:09
saved his life."
262
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救了他一命。」
14:11
Or, "There's that one girl in our class
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或：「我們班上有一個女孩，
14:13
who said that she's feeling
a lot better about her body,
a lot better about her body,
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她說對自己身體的觀感
覺得變好許多，
覺得變好許多，
14:17
because she saw someone shaped like her
as the object of desire
as the object of desire
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因為她在比較溫和的色情片中
看到和她身材一樣的人
看到和她身材一樣的人
被當成渴望的對象。」
14:22
in some tame pornography."
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14:25
So this is where I find myself
as a violence prevention activist.
as a violence prevention activist.
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這是我發覺自己扮演
預防暴力的活動家的時候。
預防暴力的活動家的時候。
14:30
I find myself talking about
and researching pornography.
and researching pornography.
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我發現自己會去談論、研究色情。
14:35
And though it would be easier
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雖然，如果人生中凡事都
非黑即白就會容易許多，
非黑即白就會容易許多，
14:36
if things in life
were all one way or the other,
were all one way or the other,
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14:38
what I've found in my conversations
with teenagers about pornography
with teenagers about pornography
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我在和青少年探討色情的對話中，
14:42
is that they remain engaged
in these conversations
in these conversations
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發現他們持續參與這些對談，
14:47
because we allow them
to grapple with the complexities.
to grapple with the complexities.
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因為我們讓他們盡力解決
這些複雜的問題。
這些複雜的問題。
14:51
And because we're honest
about the science.
about the science.
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且因我們忠於科學的事證。
14:56
These adolescents may not be adults yet,
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這些青少年還不是成人，
14:59
but they are living in an adult world.
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但他們生活在成人的世界裡。
15:02
And they're ready for adult conversations.
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他們已準備好做成人的對談了。
15:05
Thank you.
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謝謝。
15:07
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Emily Rothman - Public health researcherBoston University professor Emily F. Rothman is a leading public health scholar on sexually explicit media and its impact on adolescent dating relationships.
Why you should listen
Emily F. Rothman has conducted multiple research studies with teenage participants to identify what they view, when, why and how it may affect them. She also co-designed and co-taught the first course on pornography at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and partnered with the Boston Public Health Commission to create a "pornography literacy curriculum" for teenagers. Rothman has led several federally-funded research projects sponsored by the NIH, the National Institute of Justice and various foundations in an effort to help identify causes and consequences of adolescent dating aggression, sexual assault and human trafficking. She also founded and served as Chair of the Violence and Trauma special interest group at the Society for Behavioral Medicine, authored a report on batterer intervention programs for the World Health Organization and is an appointed member of the Massachusetts Governor's Council on Sexual and Domestic Violence.
Emily Rothman | Speaker | TED.com