TEDxPaloAlto
Leila Takayama: What's it like to be a robot?
萊菈高山: 身為機器人是什麼感覺？
Filmed:
Readability: 3.8
1,183,118 views
我們已經住在機器人當中了：像是洗碗機、溫度調節器這類的工具和機器，它們完全融入我們的生活，讓我們完全沒想到要稱它們為機器人。有更多機器人的未來會是什麼樣子？社會科學家萊菈高山分享了在設計人類──機器人互動上一些獨特的挑戰，以及針對機器人未來做實驗，如何會讓我們最後更了解我們自己。
Leila Takayama - Social scientist
Leila Takayama conducts research on human-robot interaction. Full bio
Leila Takayama conducts research on human-robot interaction. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
You only get one chance
to make a first impression,
to make a first impression,
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你只有一次機會建立第一印象，
00:15
and that's true if you're a robot
as well as if you're a person.
as well as if you're a person.
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不論你是機器人或人類，都是如此。
00:18
The first time that I met
one of these robots
one of these robots
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當我初次見到一隻這種機器人，
00:21
was at a place
called Willow Garage in 2008.
called Willow Garage in 2008.
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是 2008 年，
在一個叫柳樹車庫公司的地方。
在一個叫柳樹車庫公司的地方。
00:24
When I went to visit there,
my host walked me into the building
my host walked me into the building
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當我去那裡造訪時，
東道主陪我走進大樓，
東道主陪我走進大樓，
00:27
and we met this little guy.
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我們見到了這個小傢伙。
00:29
He was rolling into the hallway,
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它在門廳跑來跑去，
00:30
came up to me, sat there,
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跑到我面前，坐在那裡，
00:32
stared blankly past me,
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面無表情地望穿我，
00:35
did nothing for a while,
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好一陣子什麼都沒做，
00:36
rapidly spun his head around 180 degrees
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快速把它的頭扭轉了180 度，
00:38
and then ran away.
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然後跑走了。
00:40
And that was not a great first impression.
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那不是很好的第一印象。
00:42
The thing that I learned
about robots that day
about robots that day
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我那天學到一件關於機器人的事，
00:44
is that they kind of do their own thing,
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就是它們會做自己的事，
00:46
and they're not totally aware of us.
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並且完全沒有意識到我們的存在。
00:49
And I think as we're experimenting
with these possible robot futures,
with these possible robot futures,
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我想，當我們在實驗這些
可能的未來機器人時，
可能的未來機器人時，
00:52
we actually end up learning
a lot more about ourselves
a lot more about ourselves
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我們其實最後學到很多
關於我們自己的事，
關於我們自己的事，
00:54
as opposed to just these machines.
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不只學到關於這些機器的事。
00:56
And what I learned that day
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我那天學到的是，
00:58
was that I had pretty high
expectations for this little dude.
expectations for this little dude.
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我對這個小傢伙有很高的期望。
01:01
He was not only supposed to be able
to navigate the physical world,
to navigate the physical world,
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它不僅應該要能夠引導實體世界，
01:04
but also be able
to navigate my social world --
to navigate my social world --
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也應該要能引導我的社交世界。
01:07
he's in my space; it's a personal robot.
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它在我的空間中，它是個人機器人，
01:09
wWhy didn't it understand me?
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為什麼它不了解我？
01:11
My host explained to me,
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東道主向我解釋：
01:12
"Well, the robot is trying
to get from point A to point B,
to get from point A to point B,
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「嗯，機器人試著從Ａ點到達Ｂ點，
01:16
and you were an obstacle in his way,
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而你是擋在它路上的障礙物，
01:17
so he had to replan his path,
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所以它得重新規劃它的路徑，
01:19
figure out where to go,
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搞清楚要走去哪裡，
01:21
and then get there some other way,"
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然後走其他的路到達目的地。」
01:22
which was actually
not a very efficient thing to do.
not a very efficient thing to do.
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這其實並不是很有效益的做法。
01:25
If that robot had figured out
that I was a person, not a chair,
that I was a person, not a chair,
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如果那隻機器人能理解
我是一個人，不是一張椅子，
我是一個人，不是一張椅子，
01:28
and that I was willing
to get out of its way
to get out of its way
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那我其實願意讓開，
01:30
if it was trying to get somewhere,
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讓它能到它的目的地，
01:32
then it actually
would have been more efficient
would have been more efficient
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這樣就會用更有效益的方式
01:34
at getting its job done
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完成它的工作，
01:35
if it had bothered
to notice that I was a human
to notice that I was a human
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如果它花點功夫注意到我是一個人，
01:38
and that I have different affordances
than things like chairs and walls do.
than things like chairs and walls do.
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且我有著和椅子及牆壁
不同的能力，就可以做到這點。
不同的能力，就可以做到這點。
01:41
You know, we tend to think of these robots
as being from outer space
as being from outer space
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我們傾向於認為
這些機器人是來自外太空，
這些機器人是來自外太空，
01:45
and from the future
and from science fiction,
and from science fiction,
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來自未來，來自科幻小說，
01:47
and while that could be true,
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雖然那是有可能的，
01:48
I'd actually like to argue
that robots are here today,
that robots are here today,
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但其實我認為，
機器人現今就在這裡了，
機器人現今就在這裡了，
01:51
and they live and work
amongst us right now.
amongst us right now.
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它們現在就在人類當中生活、工作。
01:54
These are two robots that live in my home.
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這兩隻機器人住在我家。
01:57
They vacuum the floors
and they cut the grass
and they cut the grass
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它們會吸地板和除草，
01:59
every single day,
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每天都做，
02:00
which is more than I would do
if I actually had time to do these tasks,
if I actually had time to do these tasks,
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就算我有時間做這些工作，
我也無法做到這麼多，
我也無法做到這麼多，
02:04
and they probably
do it better than I would, too.
do it better than I would, too.
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且它們可能也做得比我好。
02:06
This one actually takes care of my kitty.
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這隻機器人會照顧我的貓。
02:09
Every single time
he uses the box, it cleans it,
he uses the box, it cleans it,
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每當牠使用貓砂時，它就會清理，
02:11
which is not something I'm willing to do,
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這就不是我願意做的事了，
02:13
and it actually makes
his life better as well as mine.
his life better as well as mine.
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它讓牠和我的生活都變得更好。
02:16
And while we call these robot products --
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雖然我們稱這些機器人為產品，
02:18
it's a "robot vacuum cleaner,
it's a robot lawnmower,
it's a robot lawnmower,
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它是打掃機器人、
它是除草機器人、
它是除草機器人、
02:21
it's a robot littler box,"
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它是貓砂機器人，
02:22
I think there's actually a bunch
of other robots hiding in plain sight
of other robots hiding in plain sight
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我認為，在我們視線能及之處
還隱藏了一堆其他的機器人，
還隱藏了一堆其他的機器人，
02:27
that have just become so darn useful
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只是它們變得太有用、太平凡，
02:28
and so darn mundane
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以致於我們為它們另外命名，
比如「洗碗機」，對吧？
比如「洗碗機」，對吧？
02:30
that we call them things
like, "dishwasher," right?
like, "dishwasher," right?
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02:32
They get new names.
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它們得到新的名字。
02:34
They don't get called robot anymore
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它們不再被稱為機器人，
02:35
because they actually
serve a purpose in our lives.
serve a purpose in our lives.
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因為，在我們的人生中，
它們有目的、用途。
它們有目的、用途。
02:38
Similarly, a thermostat, right?
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同樣的，自動調溫器，對吧？
02:39
I know my robotics friends out there
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我知道外頭那些機器人朋友們
02:41
are probably cringing
at me calling this a robot,
at me calling this a robot,
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大概對我稱呼它們為機器人
感到難為情，
感到難為情，
02:44
but it has a goal.
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但它有個目標，
02:45
Its goal is to make my house
66 degrees Fahrenheit,
66 degrees Fahrenheit,
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它的目標就是讓我的房子
維持在華氏 66 度。
維持在華氏 66 度。
02:48
and it senses the world.
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它會感知這個世界，
02:49
It knows it's a little bit cold,
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知道有一點冷，
02:51
it makes a plan and then
it acts on the physical world.
it acts on the physical world.
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它會做計畫，然後
在實體世界採取行動。
在實體世界採取行動。
02:53
It's robotics.
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這就是機器人。
02:55
Even if it might not
look like Rosie the Robot,
look like Rosie the Robot,
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即使它看起來不像
《傑森一家》裡的機器人，
《傑森一家》裡的機器人，
02:57
it's doing something
that's really useful in my life
that's really useful in my life
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但在我的人生中，
它所做的事非常有用，
它所做的事非常有用，
03:00
so I don't have to take care
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它讓我不用去費心
03:02
of turning the temperature
up and down myself.
up and down myself.
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自己把溫度調高調低。
03:04
And I think these systems
live and work amongst us now,
live and work amongst us now,
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我認為，這些系統在
我們人類當中生活和工作，
我們人類當中生活和工作，
03:08
and not only are these systems
living amongst us
living amongst us
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且，不僅這些系統生活在我們當中，
03:10
but you are probably
a robot operator, too.
a robot operator, too.
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你可能也是個機器人操作員。
03:13
When you drive your car,
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當你駕駛你的車時，
03:14
it feels like you are operating machinery.
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感覺就像你在操作機械。
03:17
You are also going
from point A to point B,
from point A to point B,
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你也是在從Ａ點前往Ｂ點，
03:19
but your car probably has power steering,
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但你的車可能有動力方向盤，
03:22
it probably has automatic braking systems,
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它可能有自動煞車系統，
03:24
it might have an automatic transmission
and maybe even adaptive cruise control.
and maybe even adaptive cruise control.
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它可能有自排變速箱，
甚至有主動車距控制巡航系統。
甚至有主動車距控制巡航系統。
03:28
And while it might not be
a fully autonomous car,
a fully autonomous car,
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雖然它可能不是完全自主的車，
03:31
it has bits of autonomy,
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它還是有一些自主性，
03:32
and they're so useful
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且這些自主性很有用，
03:34
and they make us drive safer,
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讓我們能更安全地開車，
03:36
and we just sort of feel
like they're invisible-in-use, right?
like they're invisible-in-use, right?
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我們只會感覺到，在使用它們時，
它們好像隱形了，對嗎？
它們好像隱形了，對嗎？
03:39
So when you're driving your car,
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當你在駕駛你的車時，
03:41
you should just feel like
you're going from one place to another.
you're going from one place to another.
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你應該只會感覺到你是
從一個地方到另一個地方。
從一個地方到另一個地方。
03:44
It doesn't feel like it's this big thing
that you have to deal with and operate
that you have to deal with and operate
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感覺並不像是件需要你
去處理、操作、使用
去處理、操作、使用
這些控制功能的大事，
03:48
and use these controls
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03:49
because we spent so long
learning how to drive
learning how to drive
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因為我們花了太多時間學習駕駛，
03:51
that they've become
extensions of ourselves.
extensions of ourselves.
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以致於它們已經成了
我們自己的延伸體。
我們自己的延伸體。
03:54
When you park that car
in that tight little garage space,
in that tight little garage space,
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當你把車停在那狹小的車庫空間中，
你知道車子的邊角在什麼位置。
03:57
you know where your corners are.
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當你開一輛你可能以前
沒開過的出租車時，
沒開過的出租車時，
03:58
And when you drive a rental car
that maybe you haven't driven before,
that maybe you haven't driven before,
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04:02
it takes some time
to get used to your new robot body.
to get used to your new robot body.
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要花一點時間去習慣
你的機器人身體。
你的機器人身體。
04:05
And this is also true for people
who operate other types of robots,
who operate other types of robots,
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操作其他種類的機器人也是這樣的，
04:09
so I'd like to share with you
a few stories about that.
a few stories about that.
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所以我想要和各位
分享幾個相關的故事。
分享幾個相關的故事。
04:12
Dealing with the problem
of remote collaboration.
of remote collaboration.
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處理遠端協同作業的問題。
04:14
So, at Willow Garage
I had a coworker named Dallas,
I had a coworker named Dallas,
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在柳樹車庫，我有個同事叫達拉斯，
04:17
and Dallas looked like this.
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達拉斯看起來是這樣子。
04:18
He worked from his home in Indiana
in our company in California.
in our company in California.
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在我們加州的公司中，
他在印第安納州的家中工作。
他在印第安納州的家中工作。
在我們大部分的會議中，
他是桌上盒子裡傳出來的聲音，
他是桌上盒子裡傳出來的聲音，
04:22
He was a voice in a box
on the table in most of our meetings,
on the table in most of our meetings,
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04:25
which was kind of OK
except that, you know,
except that, you know,
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這樣是還好，不過，你們知道的，
04:28
if we had a really heated debate
and we didn't like what he was saying,
and we didn't like what he was saying,
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如果我們發生火熱的辯論，
且我們不喜歡他的說法時，
且我們不喜歡他的說法時，
04:31
we might just hang up on him.
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我們可能就會把他掛斷。
04:32
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:33
Then we might have a meeting
after that meeting
after that meeting
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在那場會議後，
我們會再開一場會議，
我們會再開一場會議，
04:36
and actually make the decisions
in the hallway afterwards
in the hallway afterwards
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且之後就在走廊做決策，
04:38
when he wasn't there anymore.
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當他不在那裡的時候。
04:40
So that wasn't so great for him.
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那對他而言並非好事。
04:41
And as a robotics company at Willow,
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柳樹車庫是間機器人公司，
04:43
we had some extra
robot body parts laying around,
robot body parts laying around,
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在公司裡滿地都是
機器人的身體部件，
機器人的身體部件，
所以，達拉斯和他的伙伴柯特
組裝了這個東西，
組裝了這個東西，
04:46
so Dallas and his buddy Curt
put together this thing,
put together this thing,
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04:48
which looks kind of
like Skype on a stick on wheels,
like Skype on a stick on wheels,
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看起來像是 Skype
接著一根棍子且下面有輪子，
接著一根棍子且下面有輪子，
04:51
which seems like a techy, silly toy,
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它看來是個很蠢的科技玩具，
04:53
but really it's probably
one of the most powerful tools
one of the most powerful tools
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但其實，它可能是我所見過
所有為了遠端協同作業所製出
所有為了遠端協同作業所製出
04:56
that I've seen ever made
for remote collaboration.
for remote collaboration.
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最強大工具中的其中之一。
04:59
So now, if I didn't answer
Dallas' email question,
Dallas' email question,
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所以，現在，如果我沒回覆
達拉斯在電子郵件中問的問題，
達拉斯在電子郵件中問的問題，
05:02
he could literally roll into my office,
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他可以直接進入我的辦公室，
05:04
block my doorway
and ask me the question again --
and ask me the question again --
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擋住我的門，再問我一次那個問題
05:07
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
05:08
until I answered it.
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直到我回答為止。
05:09
And I'm not going to turn him off, right?
That's kind of rude.
That's kind of rude.
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我不會把他關機，
對吧？那樣有點失禮。
對吧？那樣有點失禮。
05:12
Not only was it good
for these one-on-one communications,
for these one-on-one communications,
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它不只很適合用在一對一的溝通上，
05:15
but also for just showing up
at the company all-hands meeting.
at the company all-hands meeting.
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也很適合出席公司的全員大會。
05:18
Getting your butt in that chair
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把你的屁股坐到椅子上，
05:20
and showing people that you're present
and committed to your project
and committed to your project
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讓人們看到你有出席，
有投入你的專案計畫，
有投入你的專案計畫，
05:23
is a big deal
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這是很重要的，
05:24
and can help remote collaboration a ton.
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且能大大協助遠端協同作業。
05:26
We saw this over the period
of months and then years,
of months and then years,
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在數個月、接著數年的期間，
我們都看到這個狀況，
我們都看到這個狀況，
05:29
not only at our company
but at others, too.
but at others, too.
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不只在我們的公司裡，
也在其他公司裡。
也在其他公司裡。
05:32
The best thing that can happen
with these systems
with these systems
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對於這些系統，最棒的情況就是
05:35
is that it starts to feel
like you're just there.
like you're just there.
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你開始覺得你就是在那裡。
05:37
It's just you, it's just your body,
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那就是你，那就是你的身體，
05:39
and so people actually start
to give these things personal space.
to give these things personal space.
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所以人們開始留
個人空間給這些東西。
個人空間給這些東西。
05:42
So when you're having a stand-up meeting,
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當你參加一場站立會議時，
人們在那空間中站立的位置，
05:44
people will stand around the space
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就跟真人開會時的情況一樣。
05:45
just as they would
if you were there in person.
if you were there in person.
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一切都很美好，
直到當機，就不好了。
直到當機，就不好了。
05:48
That's great until
there's breakdowns and it's not.
there's breakdowns and it's not.
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05:50
People, when they first see these robots,
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當人們初次看到這些機器人時，
05:52
are like, "Wow, where's the components?
There must be a camera over there,"
There must be a camera over there,"
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通常會：「哇，零件在哪裡？
這裡一定有個攝影機。」
這裡一定有個攝影機。」
05:56
and they start poking your face.
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他們開始戳你的臉。
05:58
"You're talking too softly,
I'm going to turn up your volume,"
I'm going to turn up your volume,"
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「你說話太輕柔了，
我要把你的音量調高。」
我要把你的音量調高。」
這感覺就像有個同事
走到你面前，說：
走到你面前，說：
06:00
which is like having a coworker
walk up to you and say,
walk up to you and say,
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「你說話太輕柔了，
我來把你的臉調一下。」
我來把你的臉調一下。」
06:03
"You're speaking too softly,
I'm going to turn up your face."
I'm going to turn up your face."
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那挺尷尬的，且不太好，
06:06
That's awkward and not OK,
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06:07
and so we end up having to build
these new social norms
these new social norms
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所以我們最後就建立了使用
這些系統時的新社交規範。
這些系統時的新社交規範。
06:10
around using these systems.
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06:12
Similarly, as you start
feeling like it's your body,
feeling like it's your body,
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同樣的，當你開始覺得
它是你身體的一部分時，
它是你身體的一部分時，
06:16
you start noticing things like,
"Oh, my robot is kind of short."
"Oh, my robot is kind of short."
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你就會開始注意到一些事：
「喔，我的機器人有點矮。」
「喔，我的機器人有點矮。」
06:19
Dallas would say things to me --
he was six-foot tall --
he was six-foot tall --
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達拉斯會對我說些事。他有六呎高。
06:22
and we would take him via robot
to cocktail parties and things like that,
to cocktail parties and things like that,
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而我們會透過機器人帶他去
雞尾酒派對之類的活動，
雞尾酒派對之類的活動，
06:26
as you do,
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跟你會做的一樣。
06:27
and the robot was about five-foot-tall,
which is close to my height.
which is close to my height.
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而機器人大約五呎高，和我差不多。
06:30
And he would tell me,
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他會告訴我：
06:31
"You know, people are not
really looking at me.
really looking at me.
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「你知道嗎，人們沒有真正看著我。
06:34
I feel like I'm just looking
at this sea of shoulders,
at this sea of shoulders,
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我覺得我好像是看著一片肩膀海，
06:37
and it's just -- we need a taller robot."
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那就是──我們需要更高的機器人。」
06:39
And I told him,
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而我告訴他：
06:40
"Um, no.
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「呃，不。
06:41
You get to walk in my shoes for today.
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今天，你要嚐嚐當我的滋味。
06:43
You get to see what it's like
to be on the shorter end of the spectrum."
to be on the shorter end of the spectrum."
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你可以體會一下身為
比較矮的族群是什麼感覺。」
比較矮的族群是什麼感覺。」
06:47
And he actually ended up building
a lot of empathy for that experience,
a lot of empathy for that experience,
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結果他從那次經驗
建立起了相當的同理心，
建立起了相當的同理心，
06:50
which was kind of great.
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這樣挺好的。
所以當他親自來造訪時，
06:51
So when he'd come visit in person,
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他若要跟我說話，
也不會站得比我高，
也不會站得比我高，
06:53
he no longer stood over me
as he was talking to me,
as he was talking to me,
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06:56
he would sit down
and talk to me eye to eye,
and talk to me eye to eye,
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他會坐下來，
和我能真正面對面談話，
和我能真正面對面談話，
06:58
which was kind of a beautiful thing.
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這是件很美好的事。
06:59
So we actually decided
to look at this in the laboratory
to look at this in the laboratory
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所以，我們決定在
實驗室中研究這一點，
實驗室中研究這一點，
07:02
and see what others kinds of differences
things like robot height would make.
things like robot height would make.
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看看像類似機器人身高
這種特性會造什麼其他的差異。
這種特性會造什麼其他的差異。
07:06
And so half of the people in our study
used a shorter robot,
used a shorter robot,
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在我們的研究中，半數
受試者使用較矮的機器人，
受試者使用較矮的機器人，
07:09
half of the people in our study
used a taller robot
used a taller robot
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另外半數則用較高的機器人，
07:11
and we actually found
that the exact same person
that the exact same person
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結果發現，當同一個人
07:13
who has the exact same body
and says the exact same things as someone,
and says the exact same things as someone,
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用同樣的身體，說同樣的話，
07:17
is more persuasive
and perceived as being more credible
and perceived as being more credible
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如果用比較高的機器人，
就會比較有說服力，
就會比較有說服力，
07:19
if they're in a taller robot form.
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且被認為比較可靠。
07:21
It makes no rational sense,
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這沒有理性的解釋，
但那就是為什麼我們要研究心理學。
07:23
but that's why we study psychology.
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07:25
And really, you know,
the way that Cliff Nass would put this
the way that Cliff Nass would put this
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其實，用克利福德那斯的說法，
07:28
is that we're having to deal
with these new technologies
with these new technologies
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我們得要處理這些嶄新的技術，
07:31
despite the fact
that we have very old brains.
that we have very old brains.
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儘管我們的大腦是老舊的。
07:33
Human psychology is not changing
at the same speed that tech is
at the same speed that tech is
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人類心理學的改變速度沒有科技快，
07:36
and so we're always playing catch-up,
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所以我們一直在努力追趕，
07:38
trying to make sense of this world
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試圖把這個有很多自動的東西
跑來跑去的世界給合理化。
跑來跑去的世界給合理化。
07:40
where these autonomous things
are running around.
are running around.
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通常，會說話的就是人，
不是機器，對嗎？
不是機器，對嗎？
07:42
Usually, things that talk are people,
not machines, right?
not machines, right?
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07:45
And so we breathe a lot of meaning
into things like just height of a machine,
into things like just height of a machine,
191
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所以我們把很多的意義帶到
像機器高度這樣的事物中，
像機器高度這樣的事物中，
07:50
not a person,
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而非人，
07:51
and attribute that
to the person using the system.
to the person using the system.
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然後將之歸因給使用系統的人。
07:55
You know, this, I think,
is really important
is really important
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當談到機器人學的時候，
07:57
when you're thinking about robotics.
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我認為這點十分重要。
07:59
It's not so much about reinventing humans,
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它的重點並不是在重新發明人類，
08:01
it's more about figuring out
how we extend ourselves, right?
how we extend ourselves, right?
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比較是在於我們要如何
延伸我們自己，對嗎？
延伸我們自己，對嗎？
08:04
And we end up using things
in ways that are sort of surprising.
in ways that are sort of surprising.
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結果是，我們會用
蠻讓人訝異的方式來使用東西。
蠻讓人訝異的方式來使用東西。
08:07
So these guys can't play pool
because the robots don't have arms,
because the robots don't have arms,
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這些人無法玩撞球，
因為機器人沒有手臂，
因為機器人沒有手臂，
08:11
but they can heckle the guys
who are playing pool
who are playing pool
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但他們能和玩撞球的那些人起鬨，
08:14
and that can be an important thing
for team bonding,
for team bonding,
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那對於團隊連結來說
可能是件重要的事，
可能是件重要的事，
08:17
which is kind of neat.
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這樣挺好的。
08:18
People who get really good
at operating these systems
at operating these systems
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非常擅長操作這些系統的人
08:21
will even do things
like make up new games,
like make up new games,
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能做到像是創造新遊戲這類的事，
比如半夜玩機器人足球，
08:23
like robot soccer
in the middle of the night,
in the middle of the night,
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把垃圾筒推來推去。
08:25
pushing the trash cans around.
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08:26
But not everyone's good.
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但並非每個人都很擅長。
08:28
A lot of people have trouble
operating these systems.
operating these systems.
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有些人在操作這些
系統時會遇到問題。
系統時會遇到問題。
08:30
This is actually a guy
who logged into the robot
who logged into the robot
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這個人登入了機器人，
而他的眼球向左轉了九十度。
08:33
and his eyeball was turned
90 degrees to the left.
90 degrees to the left.
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他自己並沒察覺，
08:35
He didn't know that,
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結果他在辦公室裡頭亂撞，
08:36
so he ended up just bashing
around the office,
around the office,
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撞到別人的桌子，弄得非常尷尬，
08:39
running into people's desks,
getting super embarrassed,
getting super embarrassed,
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因此而大笑。他的音量太高了。
08:41
laughing about it --
his volume was way too high.
his volume was way too high.
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而照片裡的這個人告訴我：
08:44
And this guy here
in the image is telling me,
in the image is telling me,
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「我們需要機器人靜音按鈕。」
08:46
"We need a robot mute button."
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08:48
And by that what he really meant
was we don't want it to be so disruptive.
was we don't want it to be so disruptive.
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他那麼說的意思是，我們不希望
機器人會這樣引起混亂。
機器人會這樣引起混亂。
08:51
So as a robotics company,
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所以，既然我們是機器人公司，
08:53
we added some obstacle
avoidance to the system.
avoidance to the system.
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我們就在系統上加裝了
障礙閃避功能。
障礙閃避功能。
08:56
It got a little laser range finder
that could see the obstacles,
that could see the obstacles,
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機器人有了一個小雷射測距儀，
能夠看見障礙物，
能夠看見障礙物，
08:59
and if I as a robot operator
try to say, run into a chair,
try to say, run into a chair,
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如果我在操作機器人時，
試圖比如撞向一張椅子，
試圖比如撞向一張椅子，
09:02
it wouldn't let me,
it would just plan a path around,
it would just plan a path around,
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它不會讓我這麼做，它會規劃繞路，
09:04
which seems like a good idea.
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這看似是個好主意。
09:06
People did hit fewer obstacles
using that system, obviously,
using that system, obviously,
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很顯然，用了那個系統之後，
人們比較少撞到障礙物，
人們比較少撞到障礙物，
09:09
but actually, for some of the people,
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但，對一些人而言，
09:11
it took them a lot longer
to get through our obstacle course,
to get through our obstacle course,
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他們要花比較長的時間
通過障礙物課程，
通過障礙物課程，
09:14
and we wanted to know why.
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我們想要知道為什麼。
09:17
It turns out that there's
this important human dimension --
this important human dimension --
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結果發現，有個很重要的人類維度，
09:20
a personality dimension
called locus of control,
called locus of control,
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一個人格維度，叫做「控制點」，
09:22
and people who have
a strong internal locus of control,
a strong internal locus of control,
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如果一個人有很強的內在控制點，
09:25
they need to be the masters
of their own destiny --
of their own destiny --
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他會想要主宰自己的命運，
09:28
really don't like giving up control
to an autonomous system --
to an autonomous system --
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他們不喜歡把控制權交給自動系統
09:31
so much so that they will
fight the autonomy;
fight the autonomy;
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以致會去對抗自動化：
09:34
"If I want to hit that chair,
I'm going to hit that chair."
I'm going to hit that chair."
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「如果我想要撞到椅子，
我就要撞到椅子。」
我就要撞到椅子。」
09:37
And so they would actually suffer
from having that autonomous assistance,
from having that autonomous assistance,
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自動化的協助反而會
讓這類人很辛苦，
讓這類人很辛苦，
09:40
which is an important thing for us to know
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我們能知道這點是很重要的，
09:43
as we're building increasingly
autonomous, say, cars, right?
autonomous, say, cars, right?
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畢竟我們在建立越來越
自動化的…比如汽車，對吧？
自動化的…比如汽車，對吧？
09:46
How are different people going
to grapple with that loss of control?
to grapple with that loss of control?
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要如何讓不同型的人使用而不失控？
09:50
It's going to be different
depending on human dimensions.
depending on human dimensions.
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不同的人類維度會有不同的方式。
09:53
We can't treat humans
as if we're just one monolithic thing.
as if we're just one monolithic thing.
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我們不能把人看成是單一的東西。
09:57
We vary by personality, by culture,
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我們有不同的人格、文化，
09:59
we even vary by emotional state
moment to moment,
moment to moment,
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我們甚至在不同時刻
會有不同的情緒狀態，
會有不同的情緒狀態，
10:02
and being able to design these systems,
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如果要能夠設計這些系統，
10:04
these human-robot interaction systems,
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這些人類與機器人的互動系統，
10:06
we need to take into account
the human dimensions,
the human dimensions,
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我們就得要考量人類維度，
10:09
not just the technological ones.
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不只是技術維度。
10:11
Along with a sense of control
also comes a sense of responsibility.
also comes a sense of responsibility.
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隨著控制感而來的，就是責任感。
10:15
And if you were a robot operator
using one of these systems,
using one of these systems,
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如果你是個在使用
這些系統的機器人操作員，
這些系統的機器人操作員，
10:18
this is what the interface
would look like.
would look like.
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介面看起來就是這樣子的。
10:20
It looks a little bit like a video game,
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它看起來有一點像電玩遊戲，
10:22
which can be good because
that's very familiar to people,
that's very familiar to people,
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這是好事，因為人們熟悉它；
10:25
but it can also be bad
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但也可能是壞事，
10:27
because it makes people feel
like it's a video game.
like it's a video game.
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因為它會讓人們覺得
它是個電玩遊戲。
它是個電玩遊戲。
10:29
We had a bunch of kids
over at Stanford play with the system
over at Stanford play with the system
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我們找了一群小朋友
到史丹佛來玩這個系統，
到史丹佛來玩這個系統，
操作我們在門洛公園
辦公室裡的機器人，
辦公室裡的機器人，
10:32
and drive the robot
around our office in Menlo Park,
around our office in Menlo Park,
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小朋友們開始說像這樣的話：
10:34
and the kids started saying things like,
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「如果你撞到那邊的那個人，
得十分，那個人則是二十分。」
得十分，那個人則是二十分。」
10:36
"10 points if you hit that guy over there.
20 points for that one."
20 points for that one."
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他們會在走廊上追著目標跑。
10:40
And they would
chase them down the hallway.
chase them down the hallway.
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（笑聲）
10:42
(Laughter)
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10:43
I told them, "Um, those are real people.
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我告訴他們：「呃，那些是真人。
10:45
They're actually going to bleed
and feel pain if you hit them."
and feel pain if you hit them."
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如果你們撞到他們，
他們真的會流血且會痛。」
他們真的會流血且會痛。」
10:48
And they'd be like, "OK, got it."
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他們才說：「好，了解。」
10:50
But five minutes later,
they would be like,
they would be like,
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但五分鐘之後，他們又會說：
「撞到那邊那個人有二十分，
他看起來需要被撞一下。」
他看起來需要被撞一下。」
10:52
"20 points for that guy over there,
he just looks like he needs to get hit."
he just looks like he needs to get hit."
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這有一點像《戰爭遊戲》，對嗎？
10:55
It's a little bit
like "Ender's Game," right?
like "Ender's Game," right?
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在另一端有一個真實的世界，
10:58
There is a real world on that other side
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10:59
and I think it's our responsibility
as people designing these interfaces
as people designing these interfaces
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我認為我們身為人的責任，
是要設計這些介面
是要設計這些介面
11:03
to help people remember
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來協助人們記得
11:04
that there's real consequences
to their actions
to their actions
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他們的行為會造成真實的後果，
11:06
and to feel a sense of responsibility
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讓他們在操作這些
越來越自動的東西時，
越來越自動的東西時，
11:09
when they're operating
these increasingly autonomous things.
these increasingly autonomous things.
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能夠有責任感。
11:13
These are kind of a great example
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這些是很棒的例子，
11:16
of experimenting with one
possible robotic future,
possible robotic future,
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說明對一種可能的
機器人未來所做的實驗，
機器人未來所做的實驗，
11:19
and I think it's pretty cool
that we can extend ourselves
that we can extend ourselves
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我覺得我們能將自己
延伸出去，是挺酷的事，
延伸出去，是挺酷的事，
11:23
and learn about the ways
that we extend ourselves
that we extend ourselves
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同時也能學習我們
將自己延伸出去的方式，
將自己延伸出去的方式，
11:25
into these machines
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延伸至機器中，
11:26
while at the same time
being able to express our humanity
being able to express our humanity
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同時還能表現出我們的人性
以及我們的個性。
11:29
and our personality.
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我們也會建立對他人的同理心，
11:30
We also build empathy for others
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理解那些比較矮、比較高、
比較快、比較慢，
比較快、比較慢，
11:32
in terms of being
shorter, taller, faster, slower,
shorter, taller, faster, slower,
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11:35
and maybe even armless,
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甚至沒有手臂的人，
11:37
which is kind of neat.
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這樣挺好的。
11:38
We also build empathy
for the robots themselves.
for the robots themselves.
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我們也會建立
對機器人本身的同理心。
對機器人本身的同理心。
11:41
This is one of my favorite robots.
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這是我最喜歡的機器人之一。
11:42
It's called the Tweenbot.
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它叫 Tweenbot。
11:44
And this guy has a little flag that says,
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這傢伙有一面小旗子，上面寫著：
11:46
"I'm trying to get
to this intersection in Manhattan,"
to this intersection in Manhattan,"
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「我想前往曼哈頓的
這個十字路口。」
這個十字路口。」
11:48
and it's cute and rolls
forward, that's it.
forward, that's it.
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它很可愛，會向前跑，就這樣。
11:51
It doesn't know how to build a map,
it doesn't know how to see the world,
it doesn't know how to see the world,
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它不知道如何建立地圖，
它不知道如何看世界，
它不知道如何看世界，
它只會尋求協助。
11:55
it just asks for help.
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而人們很棒的一點，
11:56
The nice thing about people
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11:57
is that it can actually depend
upon the kindness of strangers.
upon the kindness of strangers.
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就是它真的可以仰賴陌生人的善心。
12:00
It did make it across the park
to the other side of Manhattan --
to the other side of Manhattan --
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它真的穿過公園到了
曼哈頓的另一端。
曼哈頓的另一端。
12:04
which is pretty great --
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這很棒，
因為人們會把它拿起來，
轉向正確的方向。
轉向正確的方向。
12:06
just because people would pick it up
and point it in the right direction.
and point it in the right direction.
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（笑聲）
12:09
(Laughter)
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那樣很棒，對嗎？
12:10
And that's great, right?
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我們在試著建立
人類──機器人的世界，
人類──機器人的世界，
12:11
We're trying to build
this human-robot world
this human-robot world
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12:14
in which we can coexist
and collaborate with one another,
and collaborate with one another,
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在這個世界中，我們彼此能
共同存在且和諧地共事，
共同存在且和諧地共事，
12:17
and we don't need to be fully autonomous
and just do things on our own.
and just do things on our own.
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我們不用完全自動化，
也不用只靠自己做事。
也不用只靠自己做事。
12:21
We actually do things together.
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而是真正能夠一起做事。
要實現這個理想，
12:22
And to make that happen,
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我們其實需要其他人的協助，
像是藝術家、設計師、
像是藝術家、設計師、
12:24
we actually need help from people
like the artists and the designers,
like the artists and the designers,
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政策制訂者、法律學者、
12:27
the policy makers, the legal scholars,
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心理學家、社會學家、人類學家 ──
12:29
psychologists, sociologists,
anthropologists --
anthropologists --
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我們需要更多的觀點參與討論，
12:31
we need more perspectives in the room
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12:33
if we're going to do the thing
that Stu Card says we should do,
that Stu Card says we should do,
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如果我們要做史都華卡德
說我們應該做的事情，
說我們應該做的事情，
12:36
which is invent the future
that we actually want to live in.
that we actually want to live in.
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也就是：發明一個會讓我們
想要住在其中的未來。
想要住在其中的未來。
12:40
And I think we can continue to experiment
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我認為我們能持續做實驗，
12:43
with these different
robotic futures together,
robotic futures together,
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將不同的機器人未來一起拿來實驗，
12:45
and in doing so, we will end up
learning a lot more about ourselves.
learning a lot more about ourselves.
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這麼做，我們最後就能學到
很多關於我們自己的事。
很多關於我們自己的事。
12:50
Thank you.
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謝謝。
12:51
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Leila Takayama - Social scientistLeila Takayama conducts research on human-robot interaction.
Why you should listen
Leila Takayama is an acting associate professor of Psychology at the University of California, Santa Cruz, where she founded and leads the Re-Embodied Cognition Lab. Her lab examines how people make sense of, interact with, and relate to new technologies. Prior to academia, she was a researcher at GoogleX and Willow Garage, where she developed a taste for working alongside engineers, designers, animators, and more. Her interdisciplinary research continues in her current work on what happens when people interact with robots and through robots.
Takayama is a World Economic Forum Global Futures Council Member and Young Global Leader. In 2015, she was presented the IEEE Robotics & Automation Society Early Career Award. In 2012, she was named a TR35 winner and one of the 100 most creative people in business by Fast Company. She completed her PhD in Communication at Stanford University in 2008, advised by Professor Clifford Nass. She also holds a PhD minor in Psychology from Stanford, a master's degree in Communication from Stanford, and bachelor's of arts degrees in Psychology and Cognitive Science from UC Berkeley (2003). During her graduate studies, she was a research assistant in the User Interface Research (UIR) group at Palo Alto Research Center (PARC).
Photo: Melissa DeWitt
Leila Takayama | Speaker | TED.com