TED Salon Verizon
Fadi Chehadé and Bryn Freedman: What everyday citizens can do to claim power on the internet
Fadi Chehadé i Bryn Freedman: Što građani mogu učiniti da preuzmu moć na internetu
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Arhitekt informatičke tehnologije Fadi Chehadé je pomogao napraviti infrastrukturu zbog koje internet radi — neophodne stvari poput sustava naziva domene i IP adresa. Danas je fokusiran na pronalaženje načina da tehnologija koristi društvu. U oštrom razgovoru s Bryn Freedman, upraviteljicom TED instituta, Chehadé raspravlja o ratu koji je u tijeku između Zapada i Kine zbog umjetne inteligencije, o tome kako tehnološke kompanije mogu postati upravitelji moći da bi oblikovali živote i ekonomiju, te što građani mogu učiniti da preuzmu moć na internetu.
Fadi Chehadé - Technologist, entrepreneur
Fadi Chehadé is focused on finding ways for society to benefit from technology and strengthening international cooperation in the digital space. Full bioBryn Freedman - Editorial director and curator, TED Institute
Bryn Freedman helps those who want to give the "talk of their lives" in a clear, passionate and authentic way. Full bio
Fadi Chehadé is focused on finding ways for society to benefit from technology and strengthening international cooperation in the digital space. Full bioBryn Freedman - Editorial director and curator, TED Institute
Bryn Freedman helps those who want to give the "talk of their lives" in a clear, passionate and authentic way. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Bryn Freedman: So you said
that in the 20th century,
that in the 20th century,
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Bryn Freedman: Rekli ste da u 20. stoljeću
00:15
global power was in the hands
of government.
of government.
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globalna moć je bila u rukama vlade.
00:18
At the beginning of this digital century,
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Na početku ovog digitalnog stoljeća,
00:21
it really moved to corporations
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stvarno je prešla na korporacije
00:23
and that in the future,
it would move to individuals.
it would move to individuals.
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i u budućnosti će prijeći na pojedince.
00:26
And I've interviewed a lot of people,
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Intervjuirala sam puno ljudi
00:28
and they say you're wrong,
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i kažu da ste u krivu,
00:30
and they are betting on the companies.
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oni se klade na kompanije.
00:32
So why are you right,
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Dakle, zašto ste Vi u pravu
00:34
and why are individuals going to win out?
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i zašto će pojedinci pobijediti?
00:37
Fadi Chehadé: Because companies
cater to individuals,
cater to individuals,
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Fadi Chehadé: Jer kompanije
opslužuju pojedince,
opslužuju pojedince,
00:39
and we as the citizenry
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a mi kao građani
00:42
need to start understanding
that we have a big role
that we have a big role
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moramo shvatiti da imamo veliku ulogu
u tome kako će se svijet voditi,
kročiti naprijed.
kročiti naprijed.
00:46
in shaping how the world
will be governed, moving forward.
will be governed, moving forward.
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00:49
Yes, indeed, the tug of war right now
is between governments,
is between governments,
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Da, poteže se konop između vlada
00:53
who lost much of their power to companies
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kojima su kompanije preuzele puno moći,
00:57
because the internet is not built
around the nation-state system
around the nation-state system
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jer internet nije građen
oko nacionalnog sustava
oko nacionalnog sustava
01:01
around which governments have power.
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oko kojeg vlade imaju moć.
01:03
The internet is transnational.
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Internet je transnacionalni.
01:05
It's not international,
and it's not national,
and it's not national,
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Nije internacionalni, nije nacionalni,
01:08
and therefore the companies
became very powerful.
became very powerful.
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i zbog toga su kompanije
postale vrlo moćne.
postale vrlo moćne.
01:12
They shape our economy.
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One oblikuju naš gospodarski sustav.
01:13
They shape our society.
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One oblikuju naše društvo.
01:15
Governments don't know what to do.
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Vlade ne znaju što da rade.
01:17
Right now, they're reacting.
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Trenutno, odgovaraju, reagiraju.
01:19
And I fear that if we do not,
as the citizenry --
as the citizenry --
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Bojim se da ako mi kao građani --
01:22
which are, in my opinion,
the most important leg of that stool --
the most important leg of that stool --
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koji smo, po mom mišljenju,
najvažniji dio jednadžbe --
najvažniji dio jednadžbe --
01:27
don't take our role,
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ne preuzimamo svoju ulogu,
01:29
then you are right.
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onda ste u pravu.
01:30
The detractors, or the people telling you
that businesses will prevail, are right.
that businesses will prevail, are right.
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Klevetnici, ili ljudi koji vam govore
da će poslovanje prevladati, su u pravu.
da će poslovanje prevladati, su u pravu.
01:35
It will happen.
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To će se dogoditi.
01:36
BF: So are you saying that individuals
will force businesses
will force businesses
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BF: Znači, vi govorite da će
pojedinci gurati poslovanje
pojedinci gurati poslovanje
01:40
or business will be forced
to be responsive,
to be responsive,
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ili će poslovanje biti prisiljeno
da više reagira,
da više reagira,
01:42
or is there a fear that they won't be?
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ili postoji strah da toga neće biti?
01:46
FC: I think they will be.
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FC: Ja mislim da hoće.
01:47
Look at two weeks ago,
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Pogledajte, prije dva tjedna,
01:49
a small company called Skip
winning over Uber and Lyft and everyone
winning over Uber and Lyft and everyone
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mala tvrtka zvana Skip
je pobijedila Uber, Lyft i druge
je pobijedila Uber, Lyft i druge
01:53
to actually get the license
for the San Francisco scooter business.
for the San Francisco scooter business.
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te dobila dozvolu za poslovanje
skuterima u San Franciscu.
skuterima u San Franciscu.
01:59
And if you read why did Skip win,
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I ako pročitate zašto je Skip pobijedio,
02:01
because Skip listened
to the people of San Francisco,
to the people of San Francisco,
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to je zato što je Skip slušao
ljude San Francisca,
ljude San Francisca,
02:04
who were tired of scooters
being thrown everywhere,
being thrown everywhere,
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kojima je već dojadilo
da se skuteri posvuda ostavljaju,
da se skuteri posvuda ostavljaju,
02:07
and actually went to the city and said,
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otišli su u upravu grada i rekli,
02:09
"We will deploy the service,
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"Mi ćemo razviti uslugu,
02:12
but we will respond
to the people's requirements
to the people's requirements
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ali ćemo se prilagođavati
zahtjevima ljudi
zahtjevima ljudi
02:15
that we organize ourselves
around a set of rules."
around a set of rules."
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i organizirati se oko skupa pravila."
02:18
They self-governed their behavior,
and they won the contract
and they won the contract
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Sami su se dogovorili i dobili ugovor
02:21
over some very powerful companies.
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pored nekih jako moćnih kompanija.
02:23
BF: So speaking of guidelines
and self-governance,
and self-governance,
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BF: Govoreći o odrednicama
i samo-upravljanju,
i samo-upravljanju,
02:27
you've spent an entire lifetime
creating guidelines and norms
creating guidelines and norms
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potrošili ste cijeli životni vijek
stvarajući norme i odrednice
stvarajući norme i odrednice
02:31
for the internet.
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za internet.
02:33
Do you think those days are over?
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Mislite li da su ti dani prošli?
02:34
Who is going to guide,
who is going to control,
who is going to control,
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Tko će voditi, tko će kontrolirati
02:37
and who is going to create those norms?
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i tko će stvoriti te norme?
02:39
FC: The rules that govern
the technology layers of the internet
the technology layers of the internet
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FC: Pravila koja upravljaju
tehnološkim slojevima interneta
tehnološkim slojevima interneta
02:45
are now well put in place,
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su sada dobro posložena
02:47
and I was very busy for a few years
setting those rules
setting those rules
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i par godina sam imao puno posla
oko postavljanja tih pravila,
oko postavljanja tih pravila,
02:51
around the part of the internet
that makes the internet one network.
that makes the internet one network.
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oko dijela interneta
koji ga čini jednom mrežom.
koji ga čini jednom mrežom.
02:55
The domain-name system, the IP numbers,
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Imena domena, IP brojevi
02:58
all of that is in place.
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i sve to je na svom mjestu.
02:59
However, as we get now
into the upper layers of the internet,
into the upper layers of the internet,
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Međutim, kako dolazimo do
gornjih slojeva interneta,
gornjih slojeva interneta,
03:04
the issues that affect
me and you every day --
me and you every day --
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problemi koji utječu na mene
i na Vas svaki dan --
i na Vas svaki dan --
03:06
privacy, security, etc. --
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privatnost, sigurnost, itd. --
03:09
the system to create norms for those
unfortunately is not in place.
unfortunately is not in place.
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sustav koji za to stvara norme
nije na mjestu.
nije na mjestu.
03:17
So we do have an issue.
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Tako da imamo problem.
03:18
We have a system
of cooperation and governance
of cooperation and governance
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Imamo sustav suradnje i upravljanja
03:22
that really needs to be created right now
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koji se treba odmah stvoriti,
03:25
so that companies, governments
and the citizenry can agree
and the citizenry can agree
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tako da se kompanije, vlade
i građani slože
i građani slože
03:30
how this new digital world
is going to advance.
is going to advance.
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kako će ovaj novi
digitalni svijet napredovati.
digitalni svijet napredovati.
03:32
BF: So what gives
a digital company any incentive?
a digital company any incentive?
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BF: Što daje digitalnoj kompaniji
ikakav poticaj?
ikakav poticaj?
03:35
Let's say -- Facebook comes to mind --
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Recimo, na pamet mi pada Facebook,
03:37
they would say they have
their users' best interests at heart,
their users' best interests at heart,
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oni bi rekli da brinu
za interes korisnika,
za interes korisnika,
03:40
but I think a lot of people
would disagree with that.
would disagree with that.
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ali mislim da se puno ljudi
ne bi složilo s tim.
ne bi složilo s tim.
03:43
FC: It's been very difficult to watch
how tech companies have reacted
how tech companies have reacted
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FC: Bilo je jako teško gledati
kako su tehnološke kompanije reagirale
kako su tehnološke kompanije reagirale
03:49
to the citizenry's response
to their technologies.
to their technologies.
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na odgovor građana na njihovu tehnologiju.
03:52
And some of them, two or three years ago,
basically dismissed it.
basically dismissed it.
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I neki od njih su ih otkazali
prije dvije ili tri godine.
prije dvije ili tri godine.
03:56
The word that I heard in many board rooms
is, "We're just a technology platform.
is, "We're just a technology platform.
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U brojnim salama za sastanke čuo sam:
"Mi smo samo tehnološka platforma.
"Mi smo samo tehnološka platforma.
04:01
It's not my issue
if my technology platform
if my technology platform
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Nije moj problem ako
zbog moje tehnološke platforme
zbog moje tehnološke platforme
04:04
causes families
to go kill their girls in Pakistan.
to go kill their girls in Pakistan.
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obitelji u Pakistanu
ubijaju svoje djevojke.
ubijaju svoje djevojke.
04:07
It's not my issue. It's their problem.
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Nije moj problem. Njihov je.
04:09
I just have a technology platform."
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Ja samo imam tehnološku platformu."
04:11
Now, I think we are now entering a stage
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Mislim da sad ulazimo u fazu
04:15
where companies are starting to realize
this is no longer sustainable,
this is no longer sustainable,
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gdje kompanije počinju shvaćati
da ovo više nije održivo
da ovo više nije održivo
04:20
and they're starting to see the pushback
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i počinju vidjeti negativne reakcije
04:22
that's coming
from people, users, citizens,
from people, users, citizens,
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koje dolaze od ljudi, korisnika, građana,
04:25
but also governments
that are starting to say,
that are starting to say,
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ali također i vlada,
koje počinju govoriti,
koje počinju govoriti,
04:28
"This cannot be."
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"Ovo ne može ovako."
04:30
So I think there is a maturity
that is starting to set,
that is starting to set,
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Mislim da postoji zrelost
koja se počinje nazirati,
koja se počinje nazirati,
04:35
especially in that Silicon Valley area,
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pogotovo u području Silicijske doline,
04:38
where people are beginning to say,
"We have a role."
"We have a role."
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gdje ljudi počinju govoriti,
"Mi imamo ulogu."
"Mi imamo ulogu."
04:42
So when I speak to these leaders, I say,
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Tako da, kada ja pričam
s tim vođama, kažem,
s tim vođama, kažem,
04:45
"Look, you could be the CEO,
a very successful CEO of a company,
a very successful CEO of a company,
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"Gledajte, mogli biste biti direktor,
vrlo uspješan direktor kompanije,
vrlo uspješan direktor kompanije,
04:49
but you could also be a steward."
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ali biste mogli biti i upravitelj."
04:51
And that's the key word.
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I to je ključna riječ.
04:52
"You could be a steward
of the power you have
of the power you have
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"Mogli biste biti upravitelj
moći koju imate
moći koju imate
04:56
to shape the lives and the economies
of billions of people.
of billions of people.
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da oblikujete živote
i gospodarstva milijardi ljudi.
i gospodarstva milijardi ljudi.
05:00
Which one do you want to be?"
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Koje biste htjeli biti?"
05:03
And the answer is,
it's not one or the other.
it's not one or the other.
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Odgovor je, ni jedno, ni drugo.
05:06
This is what we are missing right now.
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To je ono što sada propuštamo.
05:09
So when an adult like Brad Smith,
the president of Microsoft,
the president of Microsoft,
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Kada je odrasla osoba poput Brada Smitha,
predsjednika Microsofta,
predsjednika Microsofta,
05:13
said a few months ago,
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nedavno rekla,
05:14
"We need a new set of Geneva Conventions
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"Trebamo novi set Ženevskih konvencija
05:17
to manage the security
of the digital space,"
of the digital space,"
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kako bismo upravljali sigurnošću
digitalnog prostora",
digitalnog prostora",
05:20
many of the senior leaders
in Silicon Valley
in Silicon Valley
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puno starijih vođa Silicijske doline
05:23
actually spoke against his words.
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zapravo su pričali protiv njegovih riječi.
05:27
"What do you mean, Geneva Convention?
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"Kako mislite Ženevska konvencija?
05:29
We don't need any Geneva Conventions.
We self-regulate."
We self-regulate."
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Ne trebamo Ženevsku konvenciju.
Upravljamo sami sobom."
Upravljamo sami sobom."
05:32
But that mood is changing,
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Ali to raspoloženje se mijenja
05:34
and I'm starting to see many leaders say,
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i ja počinjem vidjeti puno vođa koji kažu:
05:37
"Help us out."
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"Pomozite nam."
05:39
But here lies the conundrum.
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Ali tu je zagonetka.
05:41
Who is going to help those leaders
do the right thing?
do the right thing?
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Tko će pomoći tim vođama
da učine pravu stvar?
da učine pravu stvar?
05:44
BF: So who is going to help them?
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BF: Tko će im pomoći?
05:47
Because I'd love
to interview you for an hour,
to interview you for an hour,
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Jer ja bih voljela
intervjuirati Vas čitav sat,
intervjuirati Vas čitav sat,
05:51
but give me your biggest fear
and your best hope
and your best hope
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ali recite mi svoj najveći strah
i najveću nadu
i najveću nadu
05:56
for how this is going to work out.
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za to kako će ovo završiti.
06:00
FC: My biggest hope
is that we will become each stewards
is that we will become each stewards
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FC: Moja najveća nada je
da ćemo mi postati upravitelji
da ćemo mi postati upravitelji
06:07
of this new digital world.
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ovog novog digitalnog svijeta.
06:09
That's my biggest hope,
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To je moja najveća nada,
06:10
because I do think, often,
we want to put the blame on others.
we want to put the blame on others.
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jer mislim da često
želimo okriviti druge za sve.
želimo okriviti druge za sve.
06:15
"Oh, it's these CEOs.
They're behaving this way."
They're behaving this way."
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"Direktori su krivi.
Oni se tako ponašaju."
Oni se tako ponašaju."
06:18
"These governments are not doing enough."
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"Vlade ne rade dovoljno."
06:20
But how about us?
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Ali što je s nama?
06:21
How is each of us actually taking
the responsibility to be a steward
the responsibility to be a steward
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Kako svatko od nas
preuzima ulogu upravitelja
preuzima ulogu upravitelja
06:27
of the digital space we live in?
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digitalnog prostora u kojem živimo?
06:29
And one of the things I've been pushing
on university presidents
on university presidents
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Jednu od stvari koje učim
predsjednike sveučilišta
predsjednike sveučilišta
06:32
is we need every engineering and science
and computer science student
and computer science student
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je potreba da svaki inženjer i
student znanosti ili računarstva,
student znanosti ili računarstva,
06:36
who is about to write
the next line of code
the next line of code
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koji će uskoro napisati neki novi kôd
06:39
or design the next IoT device
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ili dizajnirati novi IoT uređaj,
06:41
to actually have in them
a sense of responsibility and stewardship
a sense of responsibility and stewardship
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ima osjećaj odgovornosti i vođenja
06:46
towards what they're building.
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prema onome što stvara.
06:48
So I suggested we create a new oath,
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Predložio sam da stvorimo zakletvu,
06:50
like the Hippocratic Oath,
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poput Hipokratove zakletve,
06:52
so that every student
entering an engineering program
entering an engineering program
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tako da svaki student koji
započne studij inženjerstva
započne studij inženjerstva
06:55
takes a technocratic oath or a wisdom oath
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prisegne na tehnokratsku zakletvu
ili zakletvu mudrosti,
ili zakletvu mudrosti,
06:58
or some oath of commitment
to the rest of us.
to the rest of us.
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ili nekakvu zakletvu koja ih
obvezuje prema nama.
obvezuje prema nama.
07:01
That's my best hope, that we all rise.
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To je moja najveća nada,
da ćemo se svi uzdići.
da ćemo se svi uzdići.
07:04
Because governments and businesses
will fight over this power game,
will fight over this power game,
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Jer vlade i kompanije
se bore u ovoj borbi moći,
se bore u ovoj borbi moći,
07:09
but where are we?
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ali što mi radimo?
07:10
And unless we play into that power table,
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Ako se ne uključimo u borbu moći,
07:15
I think we'll end up in a bad place.
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mislim da ćemo loše završiti.
07:18
My biggest fear?
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Moj najveći strah?
07:21
My biggest fear,
to be very tactical today,
to be very tactical today,
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Moj najveći strah,
da budem vrlo taktičan,
da budem vrlo taktičan,
07:24
what is keeping me up at night
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što me drži budnim noćima,
07:26
is the current war between
the West, the liberal world,
the West, the liberal world,
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je trenutni rat između
zapada, liberalnog svijeta,
zapada, liberalnog svijeta,
07:33
and China,
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i Kine,
07:34
in the area of artificial intelligence.
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u području umjetne inteligencije.
07:37
There is a real war going on,
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Rat je stvaran,
07:39
and for those of us who have lived
through the nuclear nonproliferation age
through the nuclear nonproliferation age
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i za nas koji smo doživjeli
doba ograničenja nuklearnog oružja
doba ograničenja nuklearnog oružja
07:44
and saw how people agreed
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i vidjeli kako su se ljudi složili
07:46
to take some very dangerous
things off the table,
things off the table,
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zabraniti nešto jako opasno,
07:50
well, the Carnegie Endowment
just finished a study.
just finished a study.
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Carnegie Endowment
je upravo završio istraživanje.
je upravo završio istraživanje.
07:54
They talked to every country
that made nuclear weapons
that made nuclear weapons
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Svaku zemlju koja je proizvela
nuklearno oružje
nuklearno oružje
07:57
and asked them,
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pitali su,
07:59
"Which digital 'weapon'
would you take off the table
would you take off the table
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"Koje digitalno 'oružje' biste zabranili
08:04
against somebody else's
schools or hospitals?"
schools or hospitals?"
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protiv tuđih škola ili bolnica?"
08:07
And the answer --
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I odgovor --
08:09
from every nuclear power --
to this question was,
to this question was,
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svake od tih nuklearnih sila
na ovo pitanje je bilo,
na ovo pitanje je bilo,
08:13
nothing.
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ništa.
08:15
That's what I'm worried about ...
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Toga se ja bojim...
08:18
The weaponization of the digital space,
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Naoružanje digitalnog prostora
08:21
and the race to get there.
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i utrka da se dođe do toga.
08:22
BF: Well, it sounds like
you've got a lot of work to do,
you've got a lot of work to do,
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BF: Izgleda da je pred Vama puno posla,
08:25
and so do the rest of us.
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kao i pred nama ostalima.
08:27
Fadi, thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
I really appreciate it.
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Fadi, puno Vam hvala. Zaista to cijenim.
08:29
FC: Thank you.
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FC: Hvala.
08:31
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Fadi Chehadé - Technologist, entrepreneurFadi Chehadé is focused on finding ways for society to benefit from technology and strengthening international cooperation in the digital space.
Why you should listen
Fadi Chehadé is a serial entrepreneur who has founded and led several companies in the digital space including Vocado LLC (acquired by Oracle in 2018) and Viacore (purchased by IBM in 2006). He is an advisory board member with the World Economic Forum's Center for the Fourth Industrial Revolution that focuses on maximizing the benefits of science and technology for society. Chehadé is also a member of the UN Secretary-General’s High-Level Panel on Digital Cooperation that will advance proposals to strengthen international cooperation in the digital space.
Chehadé serves on the corporate boards of Sentry Data Systems and Interactions LLC and the advisory board of the University of Southern California’s Center on Public Diplomacy. For two years, he was a Senior Advisor to Prof. Klaus Schwab, Executive Chairman of the World Economic Forum, where he focused on public-private cooperation to address issues affecting the digital economy. As former President and CEO of ICANN, the global authority managing the Internet's logical infrastructure and ensuring "one" internet for the world, Chehadé guided its historic transition to an independent transnational institution governed jointly by private, public and civic stakeholders.
Fadi Chehadé | Speaker | TED.com
Bryn Freedman - Editorial director and curator, TED Institute
Bryn Freedman helps those who want to give the "talk of their lives" in a clear, passionate and authentic way.
Why you should listen
Award-winning TV producer, investigative journalist and author, Bryn Freedman joined TED in 2014 as the editorial director and curator for the TED Institute. In her work with TED, Freedman creates and executes TED conference events for Fortune 500 companies, overseeing all editorial content as well as managing speaker coaches and determining both the topics for each talk and the overall conference theme. In addition to curating these events, she works as an executive speaker coach for professionals who want to give the "talk of their lives" in a clear, passionate and authentic way.
Freedman is also co-founder of Voices4Freedom, an international organization aimed at eradicating slavery through education and media.
Bryn Freedman | Speaker | TED.com