ABOUT THE SPEAKER
David R. Dow - Death penalty lawyer
David R. Dow has defended over 100 death row inmates in 20 years.

Why you should listen

What does it feel like to know exactly the day and time you’re going to die -- because the state has decided for you? As a death penalty attorney in Texas, the state with the highest death penalty rate in the US, David R. Dow asks himself questions like this every day. In the past 20 years he has defended over 100 death row inmates, many of whom have died -- and most of whom were guilty. But according to an interview with Dow, “They should have been sentenced to life in prison instead of death at the hands of the state.” Dow is the Litigation Director at the Texas Defender Service and the Founder and Co-director of the Texas Innocence Network, an organization in which law students provide pro bono legal services to investigate claims of actual innocence brought by Texas prisoners. He writes on contract law, constitutional law and theory, and death penalty law, and has most recently published a book called The Autobiography of an Execution, partly a memoir and partly about the politics of capital punishment. Dow is a professor at the University of Houston Law Center.

More profile about the speaker
David R. Dow | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxAustin

David R. Dow: Lessons from death row inmates

Filmed:
3,920,670 views

What happens before a murder? In looking for ways to reduce death penalty cases, David R. Dow realized that a surprising number of death row inmates had similar biographies. In this talk he proposes a bold plan, one that prevents murders in the first place. (Filmed at TEDxAustin.)
- Death penalty lawyer
David R. Dow has defended over 100 death row inmates in 20 years. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:17
Two weeks ago,
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De semèn de sa a,
00:19
I was sitting at the
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m te chita bò tab ki nan sal a manje
00:21
kitchen table with my wife Katya,
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lakay mwen, avèk madanm mwen Katya,
00:24
and we were talking about what I was gonna talk about today.
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epi, nou t ap pale de sa m pral diskite jodi a.
00:29
We have an 11-year-old son; his name is Lincoln. He was sitting at the same table
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Nou gen yon pitit gason ki gen 11 an, ki rele Lincoln (Lenkenn). Li te chita bò menm tab la,
00:34
doing his math homework.
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li t ap fè devwa matematik li.
00:37
And during a pause in my conversation
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Epi, pandan yon pòz nan konvèsasyon m nan
00:39
with Katya, I looked over at Lincoln
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avèk Katya, m te gade Lincoln
00:42
and I was suddenly thunderstruck
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epi, m te toudenkou sezi
00:46
by a recollection of a client of mine.
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lè lide m te vin tonbe sou youn nan kliyan m yo.
00:49
My client was a guy named Will.
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Kliyan m nan, se te yon nèg ki te rele Will (Wil),
00:52
He was from North Texas.
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ki te soti nan nò Texas (Tèkzas).
00:54
He never knew his father very well, because his father left
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Li pa t janm fin konnen papa l trè byen, paske papa l te kite l
00:59
his mom while she was pregnant with him.
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poukò l ak manman l, lè l te nan vant.
01:03
And so, he was destined to be raised by a single mom,
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Alò, akoz de sa, misye te arive vin grandi ak yon manman ki san mari.
01:07
which might have been all right
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Sikonstans sa a, li pa t ap petèt yon pwoblèm
01:09
except that this particular single mom
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si manman sa a
01:11
was a paranoid schizophrenic,
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pa t yon moun ki gen yon pwoblèm mantal ke yo rele eskitsofreni,
01:14
and when Will was five years old she
tried to kill him with a butcher knife.
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epi lè Wil te gen 5 an, manmzèl te eseye touye l avèk yon gwo kouto file.
01:19
She was
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Ofisye leta te pran l
01:21
taken away by authorities and placed in a
psychiatric hospital,
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epi yo te mete l nan yon lopital ki fèt pou moun ki gen pwoblèm mantal,
01:25
and so for the next several years Will
lived with his older brother
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akoz de sa a, pandan plizyè ane aprè, Will t ap viv avèk yon gran frè l
01:28
until he committed suicide by shooting
himself through the heart.
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avan ke frè sa a te touye tèt li, lè li te pèse pwòp kè l avèk yon bal ki sot nan zam.
01:31
And after that
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Epi apre sa a
01:34
Will bounced around from one family
member to another,
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Will te fè va e vyen kay moun fanmi l yo,
01:37
until, by the time he was nine years old,
he was essentially living on his own.
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jiskaske lè l te vin gen 9 an, li te prèske ap viv poukò l.
01:43
That morning that I was sitting with
Katya and Lincoln, I looked at my son,
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Maten sa a, pandan ke m te chita prè Katya ak Lincoln, m te gade pitit gason m nan,
01:47
and I realized that when my client, Will,
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epi, m te reyalize ke: lè Will, kliyan m nan,
01:51
was his age,
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te gen menm laj avè l,
01:53
he'd been living by himself for two years.
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li te gentan ap viv poukò l pandan de zan.
01:57
Will eventually joined a gang
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Will te arive rantre nan yon gang
02:00
and committed
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epi li te arive komèt
02:01
a number of very serious crimes,
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plizyè krim ki trè serye,
02:04
including, most seriously of all,
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pami lekèl ki te krim ki pi grav la,
02:07
a horrible, tragic murder.
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yon asasinasyon ki te tèrib e tris.
02:09
And Will was ultimately executed
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Epi, lajistis te finalman egzekite Will
02:15
as punishment for that crime.
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kòm pinisyon pou krim sa a.
02:17
But I don't want to
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Men, jodi a, m pa vle
02:20
talk today
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pale sou moralite
02:22
about the morality of capital punishment. I certainly think that my client
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bagay ki rele pèn lanmò a. Sètènman, m panse ke lajistis
02:26
shouldn't have been executed, but what I would like to do today instead
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pa t dwe egzekite kliyan m nan, men sa m vle fè jodi a pito,
02:31
is talk about the death penalty
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se pale de bagay ki rele pèn lanmò a
02:34
in a way I've never done before,
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nan yon fason ke m pa t janm fè sa deja,
02:36
in a way
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nan yon fason
02:38
that is entirely noncontroversial.
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ki pa p fè okenn moun fache.
02:40
I think that's possible,
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Mwen panse ke sa posib,
02:43
because there is a corner
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paske gen yon kwen
02:46
of the death penalty debate --
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nan deba ki konn fèt sou bagay pèn lanmò a,
02:48
maybe the most important corner --
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petèt se kwen sa a ki pi enpòtan,
02:49
where everybody agrees,
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kote ke tout moun dakò,
02:52
where the most ardent death penalty supporters
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kote moun ki plis sipòte koze pèn lanmò a
02:56
and the most vociferous abolitionists
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ak moun ki vrèman kont sa,
03:00
are on exactly the same page.
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byen dakò.
03:03
That's the corner I want to explore.
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Se kwen sa a ke m vle analize.
03:07
Before I do that, though, I want to spend a couple of minutes telling you how a death
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Men, avan ke m fè sa a, mwen vle pran kèlke minit pou m eksplike w kijan dosye jiridik
03:11
penalty case unfolds,
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pèn lanmò yo dewoule,
03:13
and then I want to tell you two lessons that I have learned over the last 20 years
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epi mwen vle pale w de 2 leson ke m te aprann pandan 20 an ki sot pase yo
03:19
as a death penalty lawyer,
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kòm yon avoka ki konn defann moun ke lajistis kondane a mò,
03:21
from watching well more than a hundred cases unfold in this way.
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lè m te gade plis ke 100 dosye dewoule nan fason ke m pra l eksplike la a.
03:26
You can think of a death penalty case as
a story
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Ou ka panse de yon ka pèn lanmò tankou yon istwa
03:30
that has four chapters.
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ki gen 4 chapit.
03:32
The first chapter of every case is exactly the same,
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Premye chapit chak dosye yo menm jan,
03:35
and it is tragic.
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epi sa tris.
03:37
It begins with the murder
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Chapit sa a kòmanse lè yon moun
03:38
of an innocent human being,
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touye yon lòt ki inosan,
03:41
and it's followed by a trial
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epi apre sa a, yon pwosè tribinal komanse
03:43
where the murderer is convicted and sent to death row,
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kote lajistis kondane epi voye moun ki touye lòt la, al tan lè l pou yo egzekite l.
03:45
and that death sentence is ultimately
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Finalman, pèn lanmò ke yo bay kriminèl sa a arive
03:47
upheld by the state appellate court.
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jwenn konfimasyon kay yon Kou Dapèl nan leta kote pwosè ya te komanse.
03:49
The second chapter consists of a
complicated legal proceeding known as
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Dezyèm chapit la gen yon etap legal ki konplike ke yo rele
03:54
a state habeas corpus appeal.
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«apèl habeas corpus leta».
03:57
The third chapter is an even more complicated legal proceeding known as a
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Twazyèm chapit lan se yon etap legal ki pi konplike ke yo rele
04:00
federal habeas corpus proceeding.
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«etap habeas corpus federal».
04:02
And the fourth chapter
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Epi, katriyèm chapit lan
04:04
is one where a variety of things can happen. The lawyers might file a clemency petition,
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se youn kote ke yon pakèt bagay ka pase. Avoka yo ka petèt ranpli yon fòmilè pou yo mande padon pou kilyan yo,
04:08
they might initiate even more complex
litigation,
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yo ka komanse yon lòt etap ankò ki pi konplike,
04:11
or they might not do anything at all.
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oubyen, yo gen dwa pa fè anyen ankò.
04:14
But that fourth chapter always ends
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Men, katriyèm chapit sa a toujou pran fen
04:15
with an execution.
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lè yo egzekite moun sa a ki te touye lòt moun ki inosan an.
04:18
When I started representing death row
inmates more than 20 years ago,
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20 an de sa a, lè m te kòmanse defann prizonye ke yo mete nan koulwa lanmò
04:23
people on death row did not have a right
to a lawyer in either the second
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prizonye sa yo pat gen dwa jwenn èd avoka pandan dezyèm
04:26
or the fourth chapter of this story.
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oubyen katriyèm chapit nan istwa ki antoure ka tribinal yo a.
04:29
They were on their own.
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Yo te poukont yo.
04:31
In fact, it wasn't until the late 1980s that they acquired a
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Anfèt, se pandan fen ane 1980 yo ke yo te arive jwenn
04:34
right to a lawyer during the third chapter
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dwa ki te pemèt yo jwenn yon avoka ki pou defann yo pandan twazyèm chapit
04:36
of the story.
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istwa tribinal yo.
04:38
So what all of these death row inmates had to do
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Akoz de sa a, sa ke prizonye nan koulwa lanmò yo te arive fè
04:41
was rely on volunteer lawyers
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sè ke yo te arive al konte sou avoka ki konn travay gratis, ke yo rele «avoka pro bono»,
04:44
to handle their legal proceedings.
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pou yo te regle zafè tribinal yo.
04:46
The problem is that there were way more
guys on death row
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Pwoblèm ki te vinn genyen, te vinn gen pi plis prizonye nan koulwa lanmò ki te bezwen èd
04:49
than there were lawyers who had both the interest and the expertise to work on these cases.
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ke avoka ki te gen enterè avèk konpetans espesyal pou yo travay sou ka tribinal yo.
04:55
And so inevitably,
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Akoz de sa a,
04:56
lawyers drifted to cases that were
already in chapter four --
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avoka yo te kouri al pran ka ki te gentan nan katriyèm chapit yo.
05:00
that makes sense, of course. Those are the
cases that are most urgent;
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Sètènman, sa fè sans paske ka sa yo, se yo ki te pi ijan.
05:03
those are the guys who are closest to being executed.
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Se prizonye ki te nan etap sa a ki te pi pre egzekisyon yo.
05:06
Some of these lawyers were successful; they managed to get new trials for their clients.
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Gen kèk nan avoka sa yo ki te reyisi; yo te arive rekòmanse ka kliyan yo.
05:10
Others of them managed to extend
the lives of their clients, sometimes by
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Kèk lòt pami yo te arive pwolonje vi kliyan yo. Kèk fwa
05:14
years, sometimes by months.
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yo te pèmèt yo viv plizyè ane oubyen plizyè mwa an plis.
05:16
But the one thing that didn't happen
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Men yon bagay ki pa t fèt,
05:18
was that there was never a serious and
sustained decline in the number of
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kantite moun ke yo te konn egzekite chak ane nan eta Texas la pat janm vrèman diminye;
05:23
annual executions in Texas.
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epi lè kantite sa a te diminye, li pa t dire lontan.
05:25
In fact, as you can see from this graph,
from the time that the Texas execution
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Okontrè, si w gade graf sa a, w ap konstate ke depi lè Texas te amelyore
05:29
apparatus got efficient in the mid- to
late-1990s,
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prosesis ke l konn itilize pou l egzekite prizonye l yo, pandan mitan a fen ane 1990 yo,
05:32
there've only been a couple of years where
the number of annual executions dipped
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gen sèlman kèk grenn ane pandanke valè moun ke yo te egzekite yo desann
05:37
below 20.
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pi ba ke 20.
05:39
In a typical year in Texas,
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Dabitid, chak ane nan eta Texas la
05:40
we're averaging about
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nou egzekite a pe prè
05:43
two people a month.
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2 moun chak mwa.
05:44
In some years in Texas, we've executed
close to 40 people, and this number
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Gen kèk ane nou egzekite anviwon 40 moun, epi nimewo sa a
05:49
has never significantly declined over
the last 15 years.
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pa janm diminye anpil padan 15 ane ki sot pase yo.
05:54
And yet, at the same time that we
continue to execute
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Men, pandan ke n kontinye ap egzekite
05:57
about the same number of people every
year,
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menm kantite moun chak ane,
05:59
the number of people who we're sentencing
to death
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valè moun ke n ap kondane a mò
06:02
on an annual basis
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chak ane
06:03
has dropped rather steeply.
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arive vinn desann anpil.
06:06
So we have this paradox,
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Akoz de sa a, nou vinn trouve yon paradòks.
06:07
which is that the number of annual
executions has remained high
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Pandan kantite moun ke n egzekite chak ane rete wo
06:12
but the number of new death sentences
has gone down.
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valè moun ke n kondane a mò ap desann.
06:16
Why is that?
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Poukisa sa rive?
06:17
It can't be attributed to a decline in the murder rate,
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Sa pa t fèt paske kantite moun ke yo asasine chak ane desann.
06:20
because the murder rate has not declined
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Paske pousantaj moun ke yo touye pa bese
06:22
nearly so steeply as the red line on
that graph has gone down.
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anpil tankòm liy rouj nan graf sa a desann.
06:26
What has happened instead is
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Sa k vinn rive pito
06:29
that juries have started to sentence
more and more people to prison
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moun ki fè pati jiri tribinal yo kòmanse voye plis moun nan prizon
06:33
for the rest of their lives without the
possibility of parole,
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pou rès vi yo, san yo pa ba yo posibilite pou yo soti,
06:36
rather than sending them to the
execution chamber.
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olye ke yo voye yo al nan chanm egzekisyon.
06:40
Why has that happened?
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Poukisa sa vin rive?
06:42
it hasn't happened because of a
dissolution of popular support
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Li pa rive fèt paske koze pèn lanmò a ap pèdi sipò popilè l.
06:47
for the death penalty. Death penalty opponents take great solace in the fact
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Moun ki kont bagay pèn lanmò a kontan anpil paske
06:50
that death penalty support in Texas is at
an all-time low.
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kantite moun ki sipòte sa a nan eta Texas la vin rive nan yon nivo ki se nivo ki pi ba a travè listwa eta a.
06:55
Do you know what all-time low in Texas
means?
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Ou konn sa nivo ba sa ye?
06:57
It means that it's in the low 60 percent.
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Li yon ti jan pi plis ke 60 pousan konsa.
06:59
Now that's really good compared to the
mid 1980s, when it was in
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Nivo sa a pi bon ke nivo ki te egziste pandan ane 1980 yo, lè sa
07:03
excess of 80 percent,
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te pi plis ke 80 pousan.
07:05
but we can't explain the decline in
death sentences and the affinity for
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Menm si sa, nou pa ka di se paske koze pèn lanmò a te pèdi sipò popilè l ki fè ke
07:09
life without the possibility of parole
by an erosion of support for the death
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kantite fwa yo kondane moun a mò vin bese, avèk preferans moun vin genyen pou kondanasyon pèmanant nan prizon ogmante.
07:13
penalty, because people still support the
death penalty.
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Plen moun jodi a ki toujou sipòte koze pèn lanmò a.
07:16
What's happened to cause this phenomenon?
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Kisa ki koze fenomèn sa a?
07:19
What's happened is
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Sa k rive
07:20
that lawyers
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sè ke avoka
07:21
who represent death row inmates have
shifted their focus
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ki konn defann prizonye ki nan koulwa lanmò yo te kòmanse konsantre
07:25
to earlier and earlier chapters of the
death penalty story.
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sou chapit ki o kòmansman istwa bagay pèn lanmò a.
07:29
So 25 years ago, they focused on
chapter four.
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Alò, 25 an de sa, yo te konsantre sou chapit 4.
07:33
And they went from chapter four 25 years ago to chapter three
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Epi, 25 an de sa, yo retire fokis yo sou chapit 4 pou yo al nan chapit 3
07:36
in the late 1980s.
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pandan fen ane 1980 yo.
07:38
And they went from chapter three in the
late 1980s to chapter two in
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Epi, yo te chanje fokis yo sou chapit 3 en 1980 pou yo vire l sou chapit 2
07:42
the mid-1990s. And beginning
in the mid- to late-1990s,
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pandan ane ki nan mitan syèk 1990 yo. Epi, apati de mitan a fen ane 1990 yo,
07:45
they began to focus on chapter one of
the story.
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yo te kòmanse fokis sou chapit 1 de istwa a.
07:48
Now you might think that this decline in
death sentences and the increase in the
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Ou ka panse dèske kantite de moun ke yo kondane a mò, epi ogmantasyon nan
07:52
number of life sentences is a good thing
or a bad thing.
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nimewo pèn a vi yo, se yon bagay ki bon ou mal.
07:54
I don't want to have a conversation about that
today.
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Mwen pa vle pale de sa jodi a.
07:57
All that I want to tell you is that the
reason that this has happened
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Sa ke m vle di w sèlman sè ke rezon ki fèt ke sa rive
08:00
is because death penalty lawyers have
understood
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sè ke avoka prizonye kòz pèn lanmò sa yo, yo arive konprann
08:03
that the earlier you intervene in a
case,
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ke pi bonè ke w entèvni nan yon ka,
08:06
the greater the likelihood that you're
going to save your client's life.
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pi bon chans ke w genyen pou w sove vi kliyan w lan.
08:11
That's the first thing I've learned.
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Se premye bagay ke m te arive aprann.
08:12
Here's the second thing I learned:
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Men dezyèm bagay ke m te aprann:
08:14
My client Will
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Kliyanm nan ki rele Will la
08:16
was not the exception to the rule;
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se pa yon ka eksepsyonèl ke ka li a te ye;
08:19
he was the rule.
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pito, ka li a te trè nòmal.
08:22
I sometimes say, if you tell me the name
of a death row inmate --
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Gen dè fwa, mwen di ke si w di m non yon prizonye ki te nan koulwa lanmò
08:26
doesn't matter what state he's in, doesn't matter if I've ever met him before --
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mwen pa bezwen konn nan ki eta ke l ye, sa pa fè okenn diferans si m te rankontre l deja
08:29
I'll write his biography for you.
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Mwen ka ekri istwa vil pou ou.
08:31
And eight out of 10 times,
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Epi, 8 nan 10 fwa sa yo,
08:34
the details of that biography
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detay ke m te ka bay sou istwa vi l,
08:36
will be more or less accurate.
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yo a p jeneralman vrè.
08:39
And the reason for that is that 80 percent of the people on death row are
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Epi, rezon ki fè sa a, sè ke 80 pousan moun ke yo plase nan koulwa lanmò
08:43
people who came from the same sort of
dysfunctional family that Will did.
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se moun ki te soti nan menm tip de fanmiy disfonksyonèl ke Will te soti ladan l lan.
08:47
Eighty percent of the people on death row
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80 pou san de moun ki nan koulwa lanmò
08:48
are people who had exposure
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se moun ki te nan prizon
08:51
to the juvenile justice system.
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ke yo fè pou jèn ki gen mwen ke 18 an.
08:53
That's the second lesson
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Se dezwèm leson sa a
08:55
that I've learned.
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ke m te arive aprann
08:57
Now we're right on the cusp of that corner
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Kounya, nou trouve tèt nou prè kònè kote ke
09:01
where everybody's going to agree.
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tout moun pral dakò.
09:04
People in this room might disagree
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Kèk moun isi a gen dwa pa dakò
09:06
about whether Will should have been
executed,
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avèk desizyon ke leta te pran pou l egzekite Will,
09:08
but I think everybody would agree
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men mwen panse ke tout moun ta dakò
09:11
that the best possible version of his story
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ke vèsyon istwa Will la ki ta pi bon an
09:14
would be a story
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se ta yon istwa
09:16
where no murder ever occurs.
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nan lekèl yon asasinasyon pa t ap janm rive.
09:20
How do we do that?
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Kijan ke n ka fè sa rive?
09:22
When our son Lincoln was working on that
math problem
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Lè pitit nou an, Lincoln, t ap travay sou pwoblèm matematik sa a
09:26
two weeks ago, it was a big, gnarly problem.
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2 semèn de sa a, se te yon pwoblèm ki te jeyan epi efreyan
09:29
And he was learning how, when you have a big old gnarly problem,
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Epi li t ap aprann kòman ke lè w gen yon gwo problèm
09:33
sometimes the solution is to slice it
into smaller problems.
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Gen dè fwa, solisyon an se separe gwo problèm sa a an pati ki pi piti;
09:37
That's what we do for most problems -- in
math and physics, even in social policy --
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Se sa ke n fè pou majorite gwo pwoblèm --nan matematik epi fizik, menm nan domèn politik sosyal --
09:40
we slice them into smaller, more
manageable problems.
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nou separe yo epi nou fè yo vin tounen pwoblèm ke moun ka pi byen jere.
09:44
But every once in a while,
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Men, gen kèt fwa konsa,
09:46
as Dwight Eisenhower said,
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tankòm Dwight Eisenhower te di,
09:48
the way you solve a problem
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«Fason ke moun dwe rezoud yon pwoblèm,
09:49
is to make it bigger.
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se fè sa a vin pi gwo.»
09:52
The way we solve this problem
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Fason ke n ka rezoud pwoblèm sa a
09:55
is to make the issue of the death
penalty bigger.
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se si n ta bay zafè pèn lanmò sa a plis enpòtans.
09:59
We have to say, all right.
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Fòk nou deklare ke:
10:02
We have these four chapters
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oke, nou gen 4 chapit
10:04
of a death penalty story,
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nan istwa pèn lanmò a,
10:07
but what happens before
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men, sa k rive avan
10:08
that story begins?
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istwa sa kòmanse?
10:11
How can we intervene in the life of a murderer
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Kijan èske n ka entèvni nan vi yon asasen
10:15
before he's a murderer?
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avan ke l devni yon asasen?
10:18
What options do we have
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Ki chwa ke n genyen
10:20
to nudge that person
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ki ka pèmèt nou jantiyman retire moun sa a
10:22
off of the path
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sou chemen
10:23
that is going to lead to a result that
everybody --
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ki pral bay yon rezilta ke tout moun --
10:27
death penalty supporters and death penalty
opponents --
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sipòtè pèn lanmò yo, ak moun ki kont sa a --
10:30
still think
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toujou panse
10:31
is a bad result:
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ki se yon rezilta ki mal:
10:33
the murder of an innocent human being?
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asasinasyon yon èt imen ki inosan?
10:38
You know, sometimes people say
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Ou konnen, gen dè fwa moun di
10:40
that something
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ke kèk bagay
10:42
isn't rocket science.
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pa konplike anpil tankòm syans fize (jeni ayewospasyal).
10:44
And by that, what they mean is rocket
science is really complicated
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Lè yo di sa a, sa yo vle di, sè ke syans fize a se yon bagay ki trè konplike.
10:47
and this problem that we're talking
about now is really simple.
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Men, pwoblèm sa ke n a p diskite la a, li trè senp.
10:51
Well that's rocket science;
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Imaj sa a montre w sa syans fize ye;
10:52
that's the mathematical expression
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1800
sa se ekspresyon matematik
10:54
for the thrust created by a rocket.
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pou fòs ke yon fize bay lè l a p fè mouvman.
10:58
What we're talking about today
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Bagay ke n a p egzamine jodi a
11:00
is just as complicated.
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se menm nivo konplikasyon an ke l genyen.
11:02
What we're talking about today is also
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Sa ke n a p analize la a jodia, se
11:05
rocket science.
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syans fize ke l ye tou.
11:08
My client Will
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Kliyanm nan ki rele Will la
11:09
and 80 percent of the people on
death row
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ak 80 pou san moun ki nan koulwa lanmò
11:12
had five chapters in their lives
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te gen 5 chapit nan vi yo
11:16
that came before
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ki te vini avan
11:17
the four chapters of the death penalty
story.
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661733
1800
4 chapit istwa pèn lanmò a.
11:19
I think of these five chapters as points
of intervention,
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Mwen panse a 5 chapit sa yo tankòm pwen entèvansyon;
11:24
places in their lives when our society
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668300
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pati nan vi yo kote ke sosyete nou an
11:27
could've intervened in their lives and
nudged them off of the path that they were on
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4933
te ka entèveni nan vi yo pou l te ka retire yo sou chemen ke yo te ye ya;
11:32
that created a consequence that we all -- death penalty supporters or death
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Ki te kreye yon kosekans ke nou tout, ni moun ki sipòte pèn lanmò ni moun ki kont li,
11:36
penalty opponents --
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di ki pa yon bon rezilta.
11:37
say was a bad result.
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2020
Pandan chak nan
11:40
Now, during each of these five
chapters:
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5 chapit sa yo:
11:42
when his mother was pregnant with him;
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lè manman l te ansent,
11:44
in his early childhood years;
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2266
pandan ane ke l te pase tankòm yon anfan,
11:46
when he was in elementary school;
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lè l te nan lekòl primè,
11:48
when he was in middle school and then high
school;
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lè l te nan lekòl segondè,
11:50
and when he was in the juvenile justice
system -- during each of those five chapters,
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epi lè l te nan sistèm jistis ki fèt pou ti moun yo,
11:54
there were a wide variety of things that society could have done.
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pandan chak nan 5 chapit sa yo, te gen anpil bagay sosyete ya te ka fè.
11:57
In fact, if we just imagine
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Anfèt, si nou imajine:
11:59
that there are five different modes of
intervention, the way that society could intervene
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gen 5 diferan sòt de entèvansyon, fason sosyete a te ka entèveni.
12:04
in each of those five chapters,
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Nan chak 5 chapit sa yo
12:06
and we could mix and match them any way
we want,
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710484
2216
nou ka melange yo fason nou vle
12:08
there are 3,000 -- more than 3,000 -- possible strategies
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4170
gen plis ke 3000 strateji
12:12
that we could embrace in order to nudge
kids like Will
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ke nou ka anbrase pou nou te ka retire timoun tankou Will
12:16
off of the path that they're on.
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sou chemen ke yo ye.
12:19
So I'm not standing here today
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Mwen pa kanpe la jodi a
12:21
with the solution.
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2078
pou m di tke mwen posede solisyon an.
12:23
But the fact that we still have a lot to learn,
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Men, le fèt ke nou gen anpil bagay pou nou aprann toujou,
12:27
that doesn't mean that we don't know a lot already.
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pa vle di ke nou pa konn anpil lòt bagay deja.
12:31
We know from experience in other states
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2894
Daprè eksperyans lòt eta peyi a,
12:34
that there are a wide variety of modes
of intervention
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3667
nou konnen ke gen anpil tip de entèvansyon
12:37
that we could be using in Texas, and in
every other state that isn't using them,
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ke nou ka itilizé an Texas epi nan nenpot lòt eta ki pa pitilize yo aktyèlman,
12:41
in order to prevent a consequence that we all agree is bad.
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pou nou prevante yon konsekans ke nou tout dakò ki pa bon.
12:46
I'll just mention a few.
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Ban mwen mansyone kèk ladan yo.
12:49
I won't talk today about reforming the
legal system.
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Mwen pa p pale jodi a de refòmasyon sistèm lalwa nou an.
12:53
That's probably a topic that is best
reserved for a room full of lawyers and judges.
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Sa se yon sijè ke nou ka rezève pou yon sal ki plen avoka ak jij.
12:57
Instead, let me talk about a couple of
modes of intervention
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Mwen pito vle pale de 2 tip entèvansyon
13:01
that we can all help accomplish,
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ke nou tout ka ede peyi a reyalize.
13:04
because they are modes of intervention
that will come about
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Paske se sòt de entèvansyon k ap vin yon reyalite
13:06
when legislators and policymakers, when taxpayers and citizens,
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lè lejislatè yo, avèk moun ki kreye règ politik peyo nou an, debousè enpo yo, ak sitwayen,
13:10
agree that that's what we ought to be
doing
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2233
dakò ke se konsa
13:12
and that's how we ought to be spending our money.
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ke nou ta dwe ap depanse lajan nou.
13:15
We could be providing early childhood care
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Nou te kapab founi swen
13:17
for economically disadvantaged and
otherwise troubled kids,
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5814
pou ti moun ki gen kontraryete ekonomik, ak lòt tip de pwoblèm ankò, ki ap soufri,
13:23
and we could be doing it for free.
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2383
epi nou te ka fè sa a gratis.
13:25
And we could be nudging kids like Will
off of the path that we're on.
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4110
Epi ankò, nou te ka retire timoun tankou Will sou chemen ke yo ye a.
13:29
There are other states that do that, but we don't.
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3840
Gen lòt eta ki fè sa, men, nan Texas, nou pa fè l.
13:33
We could be providing special schools, at
both the high school level
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4101
Nou te kapab founi lekòl spesyal --ni nan primè, ni nan segondè--
13:37
and the middle school level, but even in K-5,
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epi menm pandan kintègaden jiska senkyèm
13:41
that target economically and otherwise
disadvantaged kids, and particularly kids
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pwogram ki gen objektif pou yo ede timoun ki gen pwoblèm ekonomik, epi nan lòt fason tou
13:45
who have had exposure
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espesyalman pou timoun ki gentan fè pati
13:46
to the juvenile justice system.
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2100
sistèm jistis tribinal ki rezève pou timoun.
13:48
There are a handful of states that do that;
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Gen kèk grenn eta ki fè sa
13:50
Texas doesn't.
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Texas pa fè l.
13:53
There's one other thing we can be doing --
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Gen yon lòt bagay ankò ke nou te kapab fè;
13:55
well, there are a bunch of other things that we could be doing -- there's one other thing that we could be
276
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2338
franchman, gen anpil lòt bagay ankò ke nou te kapab fè.
13:57
doing that I'm going to mention, and this is
gonna be the only controversial thing
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2562
Gen yon lòt bagay ke nou te kapab fè ke m pra l pale de li.
14:00
that I say today.
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2633
Sa se sè l bagay kontwovèsyal ke m ap di jodi a:
14:02
We could be intervening
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1300
nou ka entèvni
14:04
much more aggressively
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2100
pi agresiveman
14:06
into dangerously dysfunctional homes,
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nan fwaye fanmiy ki pa fonksyone byen.
14:09
and getting kids out of them
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Nou ka retire timoun yo nan jan de kay sa yo,
14:11
before their moms pick up butcher knives
and threaten to kill them.
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5471
avan ke manman yo pran couto pou yo menase yo.
14:16
If we're gonna do that,
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2020
Si poun n fè sa a,
14:18
we need a place to put them.
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2076
nou ap bezwen yon kote pou nou mete yo.
14:20
Even if we do all of those things, some
kids are going to fall through the cracks
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844867
3404
Menm lè nou fe tout jan de bagay sa yo, gen timoun ke sistèm nan an ap arive neglije
14:24
and they're going to end up in that last
chapter before the murder story begins,
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3596
yo pral arive nan dènye chapit avan istwa asasinasyon yo a kòmanse.
14:27
they're going to end up in the juvenile
justice system.
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2033
Yo pral rantre nan sistèm jistis ki fèt pou ti moun yo.
14:29
And even if that happens,
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Menm si sa ta rive,
14:32
it's not yet too late.
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1904
li t ap toujou pako twò ta.
14:34
There's still time to nudge them,
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2794
T ap gen tan toujou pou n ta epanye yo.
14:37
if we think about nudging them
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1757
Si nou panse a epanye yo
14:39
rather than just punishing them.
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2369
olye ke nou pini yo.
14:41
There are two professors in the Northeast --
one at Yale and one at Maryland --
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2740
Gen 2 profesè nan pati nòdès peyi a, yonn nan Yale, lòt la nan Maryland.
14:44
they set up a school
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1767
Yo mete yon lekòl sou pye
14:46
that is attached to a juvenile prison.
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3900
ki konekte avèk prizon ki fèt pou timoun yo.
14:50
And the kids are in prison, but they go
to school from eight in the morning
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874233
3249
Timoun yo nan prizon, men yo a l lekòl
14:53
until four in the afternoon.
298
877482
1685
de 8 è di maten jiska 4 aprè midi.
14:55
Now, it was logistically difficult.
299
879167
1636
Se pa t yon plan ki te fasil pou yo te reyalize.
14:56
They had to recruit teachers
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1164
Yo te oblije chache profesè
14:57
who wanted to teach inside a prison, they had to establish strict
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3366
ki te vle ansenye anndan prizon.
15:01
separation between the people who work
at the school and the prison authorities,
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885333
3202
Yo te oblije etabli yon separasyon di, ant moun ki travay nan lekól la avèk moun ki gen otorite nan prizon an.
15:04
and most dauntingly of all, they needed
to invent a new curriculum because
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3432
E sa ki te pi difisil la a,
15:07
you know what?
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891967
1000
yo te oblije envante yon nouvo pwogram skolè.
15:08
People don't come into and out of prison
on a semester basis.
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5500
Paske moun pa antre soti nan prizon regilyèman chak semès.
15:14
But they did all those things.
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3117
Men, yo te kanmèm arive reyalize tout bagay sa yo.
15:17
Now what do all of these things have in common?
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2749
Kisa trè tout bagay sa yo genyen ki menm?
15:20
What all of these things have in common
is that they cost money.
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904333
6367
Sa bagay sa yo genyen en komen, sè ke yo tout koute lajan.
15:26
Some of the people in the room might be
old enough to remember
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3028
Kèk nan moun ki nan sal la gen ase laj pou yo sonje
15:29
the guy on the old oil filter commercial.
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3762
mesye sou ansyen reklam filt lwil ki fèt pou machin yo;
15:33
He used to say, "Well, you can pay me now
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3810
li te kon, di,
15:37
or you can pay me later."
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3067
«Ou ka peye m kounya oubyen ou ka peye m pita.»
15:40
What we're doing
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2133
Sa ke n ap fè la,
15:42
in the death penalty system
314
926500
2020
nan sistèm ki pèmèt nou kondane moun a pèn lanmó,
15:44
is we're paying later.
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928520
3599
sè ke n ap peye pita.
15:48
But the thing is
316
932119
1848
Men, yon sèl bagay
15:49
that for every 15,000 dollars
that we spend intervening
317
933967
3866
pou chak 15.000 dola ke nou depanse
15:53
in the lives of economically and
otherwise disadvantaged kids
318
937833
4367
pou nou entèveni nan vi timoun
15:58
in those earlier chapters,
319
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1320
ki gen pwoblèm ekonomik
15:59
we save 80,000 dollars in crime-related costs down the road.
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4413
nou evite yon depans de 80.000 dola
16:03
Even if you don't agree
321
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1763
nan bidjé ke nou kreye pou n konbat krim.
16:05
that there's a moral imperative that we do it,
322
949696
2396
Menm si ou pa dakò pou n ta aji akoz de yon rezon moral,
16:09
it just makes economic sense.
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2577
li fè sans nan domèn ekonomik.
16:14
I want to tell you about the last conversation that
I had with Will.
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958589
4023
Mwen vle pale w de yon mòso nan dènye konvèsasyon ke mwen te fè ak Will.
16:18
It was the day that he was going to be executed,
325
962612
4088
Se te jou yo te pral egzekite l la.
16:22
and we were just talking.
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966700
4312
Nou t ap pale,
16:26
There was nothing left to do
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971012
1055
pa t gen anyen ankó pou nou te fè
16:27
in his case.
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972067
1615
pou n te sove ka l la.
16:29
And we were talking about his life.
329
973682
2351
Nou t ap pale de vi l. Premyéman li te pale de papa l,
16:31
And he was talking first about his dad,
who he hardly knew,
330
976033
2867
ke l pa t menm byen konnen,
16:34
who had died,
331
978900
833
ki te mouri.
16:35
and then about his mom,
332
979733
2634
Nou t ap pale de manman l,
16:38
who he did know,
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ke l te konnen,
16:40
who is still alive.
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ki toujou vivan.
16:42
And I said to him,
335
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Mwen te di li:
16:44
"I know the story.
336
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2051
mwen konnen istwa l la.
16:46
I've read the records.
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1816
Mwen te li achiv yo;
16:48
I know that she tried to kill you."
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2642
mwen konnen ke l te eseye touye w.
16:51
I said, "But I've always wondered whether you
really
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2438
Men, mwen toujou ap poze tèt mwen yon kesyon:
16:53
actually remember that."
340
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2120
mwen mande èske w sonje tout bon vre.
16:55
I said, "I don't remember anything
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1503
Paske mwen menm, mwen pa sonje anyen
16:57
from when I was five years old.
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2159
de lè m te gen 5 an.
16:59
Maybe you just remember somebody telling you."
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2938
Petèt ou ka sonje sa yon moun te di w.
17:02
And he looked at me and he leaned forward,
344
1006667
2500
Li te gade m, epi li te kage devan,
17:05
and he said, "Professor," -- he'd known me for
12 years, he still called me Professor.
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3600
li te rele m «Pwofesè» malgre ke l te gen 12 an depi ke l te konnen m,
17:08
He said, "Professor, I don't mean any
disrespect by this,
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3315
Li te deklare: «Pwofesè, mwen p ap di sa m pral di la a pou m derespekte w,
17:11
but when your mama
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1651
men lè manman w pran yon kouto
17:13
picks up a butcher knife that looks bigger
than you are,
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3100
ki parèt pi gwo pase w,
17:16
and chases you through the house
screaming she's gonna kill you,
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3800
epi l kouri dèyè w nan tout kay la, epi l ap deklare ke li pra l touye w.
17:20
and you have to lock yourself in the
bathroom and lean against the door and
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1024633
3825
Ou oblije al kache nan twalèt la,
apiye sou pót la,
17:24
holler for help until the police get
there,"
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2763
rele amwey pou jis kaske polisye yo vini.»
17:27
he looked at me and he said,
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3079
Li te gade m epi l te di:
17:30
"that's something you don't forget."
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3500
«Sa se yon bagay ke w pap janm bliye.»
17:33
I hope there's one thing you all won't forget:
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2500
Mwen swete ke gen yon bagay ke nou tout p ap bliyé
17:36
In between the time you arrived here
this morning and the time we break for lunch,
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2856
ant lè ke nou rive la ek lè ke nou pral kanpe, pou na l manje dejene,
17:39
there are going to be four homicides
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3411
pra l gen 4 asasinasyon atravè Ozetazini.
17:42
in the United States.
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1433
Nou pra l konsakre anpil resous sosyal
17:43
We're going to devote enormous social
resources to punishing the people who
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4167
pou n pini moun ki fè krim sa yo.
17:48
commit those crimes, and that's
appropriate, because we should punish
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2300
Pinisyon nou yo konvenab
17:50
people who do bad things.
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2066
paske nou dwe pini moun ki fè sa k pa sa.
17:52
But three of those crimes are
preventable.
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3567
Men gen 3 nan krim sa yo, nou te ka epanye.
17:56
If we make the picture bigger
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2910
Si nou pa gade pi byen
17:59
and devote our attention to the
earlier chapters,
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4644
pou nou konsantre sou chapit ki o kòmansman yo,
18:03
then we're never going to write the
first sentence
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nou p ap janm ka ekri premye fraz
18:07
that begins the death penalty story.
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ki kòmanse wout pèn lanmó a.
18:08
Thank you.
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1706
Mèsi!
18:10
(Applause)
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1331
(Aplodisman...)

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
David R. Dow - Death penalty lawyer
David R. Dow has defended over 100 death row inmates in 20 years.

Why you should listen

What does it feel like to know exactly the day and time you’re going to die -- because the state has decided for you? As a death penalty attorney in Texas, the state with the highest death penalty rate in the US, David R. Dow asks himself questions like this every day. In the past 20 years he has defended over 100 death row inmates, many of whom have died -- and most of whom were guilty. But according to an interview with Dow, “They should have been sentenced to life in prison instead of death at the hands of the state.” Dow is the Litigation Director at the Texas Defender Service and the Founder and Co-director of the Texas Innocence Network, an organization in which law students provide pro bono legal services to investigate claims of actual innocence brought by Texas prisoners. He writes on contract law, constitutional law and theory, and death penalty law, and has most recently published a book called The Autobiography of an Execution, partly a memoir and partly about the politics of capital punishment. Dow is a professor at the University of Houston Law Center.

More profile about the speaker
David R. Dow | Speaker | TED.com