ABOUT THE SPEAKER
David R. Dow - Death penalty lawyer
David R. Dow has defended over 100 death row inmates in 20 years.

Why you should listen

What does it feel like to know exactly the day and time you’re going to die -- because the state has decided for you? As a death penalty attorney in Texas, the state with the highest death penalty rate in the US, David R. Dow asks himself questions like this every day. In the past 20 years he has defended over 100 death row inmates, many of whom have died -- and most of whom were guilty. But according to an interview with Dow, “They should have been sentenced to life in prison instead of death at the hands of the state.” Dow is the Litigation Director at the Texas Defender Service and the Founder and Co-director of the Texas Innocence Network, an organization in which law students provide pro bono legal services to investigate claims of actual innocence brought by Texas prisoners. He writes on contract law, constitutional law and theory, and death penalty law, and has most recently published a book called The Autobiography of an Execution, partly a memoir and partly about the politics of capital punishment. Dow is a professor at the University of Houston Law Center.

More profile about the speaker
David R. Dow | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxAustin

David R. Dow: Lessons from death row inmates

大衛 R. 道: 從死囚身上學到的課

Filmed:
3,920,670 views

甚麼事情在謀殺案前發生? 在探討如何減少死刑案件的時候,大衛 R. 道 發現死囚的背景有驚人的相似程度。這場演講中,他提出一個大膽的方案,一個可以預防謀殺案發生的方案。(攝於 TEDx德州奧斯汀)
- Death penalty lawyer
David R. Dow has defended over 100 death row inmates in 20 years. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:17
Two weeks ago,
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兩個星期前
00:19
I was sitting坐在 at the
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我和我的太太卡地亞 (Katya)
00:21
kitchen廚房 table with my wife妻子 Katya卡佳,
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坐在廚房的餐桌上
00:24
and we were talking about what I was gonna talk about today今天.
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討論我今天應該講的題目
00:29
We have an 11-year-old-歲 son兒子; his name名稱 is Lincoln林肯. He was sitting坐在 at the same相同 table
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我們有一個11歲大的兒子,他的名字叫林肯(Lincoln)
他坐在同一餐桌上
00:34
doing his math數學 homework家庭作業.
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正在做數學作業。
00:37
And during a pause暫停 in my conversation會話
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當我和卡地亞的對話暫停之際
00:39
with Katya卡佳, I looked看著 over at Lincoln林肯
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我望一望林肯
00:42
and I was suddenly突然 thunderstruck嚇壞的
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一下子像被雷打中一樣
00:46
by a recollection回憶 of a client客戶 of mine.
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我當時想起我曾經的一個客戶“
00:49
My client客戶 was a guy named命名 Will.
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他名叫威廉
00:52
He was from North Texas德州.
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他家鄉在德州北部
00:54
He never knew知道 his father父親 very well, because his father父親 left
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他對父親沒有清晰的印象,因為他父親
00:59
his mom媽媽 while she was pregnant with him.
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在他母親懷著他的時候把兩人拋棄
01:03
And so, he was destined注定 to be raised上調 by a single mom媽媽,
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所以,他在命中注定了要由他的單親媽媽養大
01:07
which哪一個 might威力 have been all right
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原本,這個也並非甚麼大問題
01:09
except that this particular特定 single mom媽媽
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可是這一個母親
01:11
was a paranoid偏執 schizophrenic精神分裂症,
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患有偏執型精神分裂症
01:14
and when Will was five years年份 old she
tried試著 to kill him with a butcher屠夫 knife.
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當威廉還是五歲的時候,她就試圖以屠刀把他殺死
01:19
She was
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她最後
01:21
taken採取 away by authorities當局 and placed放置 in a
psychiatric精神病 hospital醫院,
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被執法當局帶走並關在精神病院
01:25
and so for the next下一個 several一些 years年份 Will
lived生活 with his older舊的 brother哥哥
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在往後的幾年間,小威廉一直跟他的哥哥同住
01:28
until直到 he committed提交 suicide自殺 by shooting射擊
himself他自己 through通過 the heart.
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直至他哥哥一槍打進自己的心房自殺
01:31
And after that
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從此以後
01:34
Will bounced反彈 around from one family家庭
member會員 to another另一個,
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威廉像人球一樣被推到不同的親戚家中
01:37
until直到, by the time he was nine years年份 old,
he was essentially實質上 living活的 on his own擁有.
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直至他九歲那年以後,他就自己獨自生活
01:43
That morning早上 that I was sitting坐在 with
Katya卡佳 and Lincoln林肯, I looked看著 at my son兒子,
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那天早上,當我坐在卡地亞和林肯旁邊,我看著兒子林肯
01:47
and I realized實現 that when my client客戶, Will,
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我發覺當我的當時人威廉
01:51
was his age年齡,
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和我兒子一樣大的時候
01:53
he'd他會 been living活的 by himself他自己 for two years年份.
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他已經獨個兒生活兩年了
01:57
Will eventually終於 joined加盟 a gang結夥
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威廉最後加入了黑社會
02:00
and committed提交
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亦犯下了
02:01
a number of very serious嚴重 crimes犯罪,
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一連串的嚴重罪行
02:04
including包含, most seriously認真地 of all,
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包括,最嚴重的
02:07
a horrible可怕, tragic悲慘 murder謀殺.
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令人心寒的、兇殺悲劇
02:09
And Will was ultimately最終 executed執行
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威廉最後被處決
02:15
as punishment懲罰 for that crime犯罪.
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作為他犯罪的懲罰
02:17
But I don't want to
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但我今天並非
02:20
talk today今天
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要談論
02:22
about the morality道德 of capital首都 punishment懲罰. I certainly當然 think that my client客戶
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有關死刑的道德問題。我當然不認為
02:26
shouldn't不能 have been executed執行, but what I would like to do today今天 instead代替
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我的當時人應該受到死刑這制裁,但我今天想
02:31
is talk about the death死亡 penalty罰款
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以一種我從未試過的方式
02:34
in a way I've never doneDONE before,
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去談論死刑
02:36
in a way
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我要探討的事
02:38
that is entirely完全 noncontroversial無爭議.
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是完全沒有爭議的
02:40
I think that's possible可能,
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我認為這是可能的
02:43
because there is a corner
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因為這場死刑辯論當中
02:46
of the death死亡 penalty罰款 debate辯論 --
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有一個角落
02:48
maybe the most important重要 corner --
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可能是最重要的角落
02:49
where everybody每個人 agrees同意,
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是所有人都認同的
02:52
where the most ardent熱心 death死亡 penalty罰款 supporters支持者
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即使是那些對於保留死刑的忠實支持者
02:56
and the most vociferous喧嚷 abolitionists廢奴主義者
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或是那些最暄嚷的、支持廢除死刑的人
03:00
are on exactly究竟 the same相同 page.
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都會站在同一陣線
03:03
That's the corner I want to explore探索.
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這就是我要探討的角落
03:07
Before I do that, though雖然, I want to spend a couple一對 of minutes分鐘 telling告訴 you how a death死亡
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在這之前,我希望用幾分鐘的時間去告訴你們
03:11
penalty罰款 case案件 unfolds展開,
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一個死刑的判決是怎樣開展的
03:13
and then I want to tell you two lessons教訓 that I have learned學到了 over the last 20 years年份
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接著我會告訴你,這二十年裏
03:19
as a death死亡 penalty罰款 lawyer律師,
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我作為死刑律師
03:21
from watching觀看 well more than a hundred cases unfold展開 in this way.
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處理一百多個案件的其中兩課
03:26
You can think of a death死亡 penalty罰款 case案件 as
a story故事
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你可以把一個死刑的案件
03:30
that has four chapters.
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分成四個章節
03:32
The first chapter章節 of every一切 case案件 is exactly究竟 the same相同,
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每個案件的第一章都是一樣
03:35
and it is tragic悲慘.
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悲哀的
03:37
It begins開始 with the murder謀殺
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它從一宗
03:38
of an innocent無辜 human人的 being存在,
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無辜受害者被殺的事件開始
03:41
and it's followed其次 by a trial審訊
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接著是審訊
03:43
where the murderer兇手 is convicted被定罪 and sent發送 to death死亡 row,
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殺人犯被定罪並被判死刑
03:45
and that death死亡 sentence句子 is ultimately最終
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之後死刑的判決
03:47
upheld堅持 by the state appellate受理上訴的 court法庭.
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州的上訴法院維持原判
03:49
The second第二 chapter章節 consists of a
complicated複雜 legal法律 proceeding訴訟 known已知 as
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第二章是一個複雜的司法程序
03:54
a state habeas人身保護令 corpus文集 appeal上訴.
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叫做州人身保護令上訴
03:57
The third第三 chapter章節 is an even more complicated複雜 legal法律 proceeding訴訟 known已知 as a
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第三章是一個更為繁複的司法程序
04:00
federal聯邦 habeas人身保護令 corpus文集 proceeding訴訟.
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叫做聯邦人身保護令審裁
04:02
And the fourth第四 chapter章節
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之後的第四章中
04:04
is one where a variety品種 of things can happen發生. The lawyers律師 might威力 file文件 a clemency寬大 petition請願,
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一系列的事情可以發生。律師們可能會可能會提出特赦申請
04:08
they might威力 initiate發起 even more complex複雜
litigation訴訟,
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他們可能會啟動更繁複的訴訟
04:11
or they might威力 not do anything at all.
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又或者他們甚麼都不再做
04:14
But that fourth第四 chapter章節 always ends結束
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但第四章很多時都會
04:15
with an execution執行.
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以執行死刑為終結
04:18
When I started開始 representing代表 death死亡 row
inmates囚犯 more than 20 years年份 ago,
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二十多年前,當我開始作死囚代表律師的時候
04:23
people on death死亡 row did not have a right
to a lawyer律師 in either the second第二
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被判死刑的人在第二或第四章的時候
04:26
or the fourth第四 chapter章節 of this story故事.
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並沒有聘請律師作辯護的權利
04:29
They were on their own擁有.
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他們需要獨自面對審判
04:31
In fact事實, it wasn't until直到 the late晚了 1980s that they acquired後天 a
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實際上,一九八零年代以前
04:34
right to a lawyer律師 during the third第三 chapter章節
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他們在故事的第三章裏
04:36
of the story故事.
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都沒有聘請代表律師的權利
04:38
So what all of these death死亡 row inmates囚犯 had to do
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所以這些被判死刑的人
04:41
was rely依靠 on volunteer志願者 lawyers律師
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只能夠依靠義務律師
04:44
to handle處理 their legal法律 proceedings訴訟.
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去處理他們的司法程序
04:46
The problem問題 is that there were way more
guys on death死亡 row
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問題是,那些被判死刑的人的數目
04:49
than there were lawyers律師 who had both the interest利益 and the expertise專門知識 to work on these cases.
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遠遠多於那些既願意幫助死囚,又有具備專門知識的律師的數目
04:55
And so inevitably必將,
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無可避免地
04:56
lawyers律師 drifted漂流 to cases that were
already已經 in chapter章節 four --
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律師們都會先處理已經到了第四章的死囚案件
05:00
that makes品牌 sense, of course課程. Those are the
cases that are most urgent緊急;
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這不難埋解,因為這些案件都比較趕急
05:03
those are the guys who are closest最近的 to being存在 executed執行.
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這些死囚都在被處決的最邊緣
05:06
Some of these lawyers律師 were successful成功; they managed管理 to get new trials試驗 for their clients客戶.
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有一些律師成功了;他們為當時人爭取新的審訊
05:10
Others其他 of them managed管理 to extend延伸
the lives生活 of their clients客戶, sometimes有時 by
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其他律師就爭取了延長他們當時人的生命
05:14
years年份, sometimes有時 by months個月.
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有時幾年,有時幾個月
05:16
But the one thing that didn't happen發生
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但有一種事並沒有發生
05:18
was that there was never a serious嚴重 and
sustained持續 decline下降 in the number of
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那就是德州的行刑數目,以年計
05:23
annual全年 executions處決 in Texas德州.
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一直沒有重大而持久的下降趨勢
05:25
In fact事實, as you can see from this graph圖形,
from the time that the Texas德州 execution執行
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實際上,看看這個圖表,德州在一九九零年代
05:29
apparatus儀器 got efficient高效 in the mid-中- to
late-晚了-1990s,
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添置了足夠的行刑工具後
05:32
there've已經有 only been a couple一對 of years年份 where
the number of annual全年 executions處決 dipped
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只有少數年份,行刑數子以年計
05:37
below下面 20.
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在二十以下
05:39
In a typical典型 year in Texas德州,
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在一個普通的年份
05:40
we're averaging平均 about
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德州每個月處決
05:43
two people a month.
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兩個人
05:44
In some years年份 in Texas德州, we've我們已經 executed執行
close to 40 people, and this number
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在某些年份,德州每年處決近四十人
05:49
has never significantly顯著 declined下降 over
the last 15 years年份.
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這個數字在過去的十五年間一直沒有顯著的下降
05:54
And yet然而, at the same相同 time that we
continue繼續 to execute執行
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但是,在我們每年繼續處決
05:57
about the same相同 number of people every一切
year,
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相當數量的死囚的同時
05:59
the number of people who we're sentencing宣判
to death死亡
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實際上我們的法庭
06:02
on an annual全年 basis基礎
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以年計大幅減少了
06:03
has dropped下降 rather steeply.
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作出死刑的裁決
06:06
So we have this paradox悖論,
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現在我們有這個矛盾
06:07
which哪一個 is that the number of annual全年
executions處決 has remained保持 high
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一方面被行刑的數字一直居高不下
06:12
but the number of new death死亡 sentences句子
has gone走了 down.
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另一方面新增的死刑裁決一直下降
06:16
Why is that?
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為甚麼會這樣呢
06:17
It can't be attributed由於 to a decline下降 in the murder謀殺 rate,
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謀殺案罪案率下降並不能解釋這個現象
06:20
because the murder謀殺 rate has not declined下降
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因為罪案率在這幾年間並沒有
06:22
nearly幾乎 so steeply as the red line on
that graph圖形 has gone走了 down.
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像圖表中的紅線下降得一樣厲害
06:26
What has happened發生 instead代替 is
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真正的原因是
06:29
that juries陪審團 have started開始 to sentence句子
more and more people to prison監獄
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仲裁員傾向將犯人判以
06:33
for the rest休息 of their lives生活 without the
possibility可能性 of parole言語,
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沒有假釋機會的終身監禁
06:36
rather than sending發出 them to the
execution執行 chamber.
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多於送他們到行刑室
06:40
Why has that happened發生?
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為甚麼會這樣呢
06:42
it hasn't有沒有 happened發生 because of a
dissolution解散 of popular流行 support支持
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這個情況發生並不是因為公眾對死刑的支持已經瓦解
06:47
for the death死亡 penalty罰款. Death死亡 penalty罰款 opponents對手 take great solace慰藉 in the fact事實
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反對死刑的人因為德州對死刑的支持度
06:50
that death死亡 penalty罰款 support支持 in Texas德州 is at
an all-time整天 low.
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跌至新低而得到慰藉
06:55
Do you know what all-time整天 low in Texas德州
means手段?
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你知道“新低”的意思嗎?
06:57
It means手段 that it's in the low 60 percent百分.
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這是指稍為多於百分之六十
06:59
Now that's really good compared相比 to the
mid 1980s, when it was in
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相對上世紀八十年代
07:03
excess過量 of 80 percent百分,
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多於百分之八十的支持度,這已是很好了
07:05
but we can't explain說明 the decline下降 in
death死亡 sentences句子 and the affinity親和力 for
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但我們不能以民眾對死刑的支持度減少
07:09
life without the possibility可能性 of parole言語
by an erosion侵蝕 of support支持 for the death死亡
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去解釋死刑減少與無期徒刑增加的倩況
07:13
penalty罰款, because people still support支持 the
death死亡 penalty罰款.
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因為大部分的民眾還是支持死刑
07:16
What's happened發生 to cause原因 this phenomenon現象?
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那甚麼促使這個情況發生呢?
07:19
What's happened發生 is
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這個由於
07:20
that lawyers律師
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那些代表死囚的律師
07:21
who represent代表 death死亡 row inmates囚犯 have
shifted their focus焦點
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將他們的焦點移到
07:25
to earlier and earlier chapters of the
death死亡 penalty罰款 story故事.
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死刑故事較早、較早的章節
07:29
So 25 years年份 ago, they focused重點 on
chapter章節 four.
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二十五年前,他們聚焦在第四章
07:33
And they went from chapter章節 four 25 years年份 ago to chapter章節 three
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大概二十五年前,即是八十年代後期
07:36
in the late晚了 1980s.
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他們改為聚焦在第三章
07:38
And they went from chapter章節 three in the
late晚了 1980s to chapter章節 two in
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到九十年代中期,他們從第三章改為聚焦在第二章
07:42
the mid-中-1990s. And beginning開始
in the mid-中- to late-晚了-1990s,
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直到九十年代中至後期
07:45
they began開始 to focus焦點 on chapter章節 one of
the story故事.
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他們將焦點放在故事的第一章
07:48
Now you might威力 think that this decline下降 in
death死亡 sentences句子 and the increase增加 in the
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現在,你或許會對死刑數目減少和
07:52
number of life sentences句子 is a good thing
or a bad thing.
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無期徒刑的增長有正面或負面的看法
07:54
I don't want to have a conversation會話 about that
today今天.
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我今天不想觸及這個問題
07:57
All that I want to tell you is that the
reason原因 that this has happened發生
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我想說的,是這個情況發生的原因
08:00
is because death死亡 penalty罰款 lawyers律師 have
understood了解
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死囚代表律師明白到
08:03
that the earlier you intervene干預 in a
case案件,
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你愈早介入一個案件
08:06
the greater更大 the likelihood可能性 that you're
going to save保存 your client's客戶 life.
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你更加容易保住你當時人的性命
08:11
That's the first thing I've learned學到了.
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這是我學到的第一件事
08:12
Here's這裡的 the second第二 thing I learned學到了:
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第二件事我學到的:
08:14
My client客戶 Will
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我的當時人威廉
08:16
was not the exception例外 to the rule規則;
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他的故事不是一個例外
08:19
he was the rule規則.
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他本身就是一個典型的例子
08:22
I sometimes有時 say, if you tell me the name名稱
of a death死亡 row inmate犯人 --
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我有時會說-如果你給我一個死囚的名字
08:26
doesn't matter what state he's in, doesn't matter if I've ever met會見 him before --
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不論他在哪一個州,不論我跟他有沒有相遇過
08:29
I'll write his biography for you.
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我都可以替他寫一篇傳記
08:31
And eight out of 10 times,
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十次裏面有八次
08:34
the details細節 of that biography
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傳記的細節
08:36
will be more or less accurate準確.
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多多少少都是準確的
08:39
And the reason原因 for that is that 80 percent百分 of the people on death死亡 row are
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這是因為百分之八十的死囚
08:43
people who came來了 from the same相同 sort分類 of
dysfunctional功能失調 family家庭 that Will did.
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都像威廉一樣來自一些無法起效的家庭
08:47
Eighty八十 percent百分 of the people on death死亡 row
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百分之八十的死囚
08:48
are people who had exposure曝光
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都曾經接觸過
08:51
to the juvenile少年 justice正義 system系統.
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少年司法制度
08:53
That's the second第二 lesson
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這是我學到的
08:55
that I've learned學到了.
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第二課
08:57
Now we're right on the cusp風口浪尖 of that corner
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現在,我們應該達到了
09:01
where everybody's每個人的 going to agree同意.
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一個大家都認同的共識
09:04
People in this room房間 might威力 disagree不同意
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這個演講廳裏的人可能不同意
09:06
about whether是否 Will should have been
executed執行,
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威廉應否被處以死刑
09:08
but I think everybody每個人 would agree同意
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我的相信所有人都會同意
09:11
that the best最好 possible可能 version of his story故事
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這個故事最佳的版本
09:14
would be a story故事
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會是沒有兇殺案發的
09:16
where no murder謀殺 ever occurs發生.
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一個故事
09:20
How do we do that?
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我們可以怎樣做呢?
09:22
When our son兒子 Lincoln林肯 was working加工 on that
math數學 problem問題
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我的兒子林肯在兩星期前
09:26
two weeks ago, it was a big, gnarly粗糙 problem問題.
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嘗試解答他的數學難題。那是一個很大、很複雜的問題
09:29
And he was learning學習 how, when you have a big old gnarly粗糙 problem問題,
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他學習到,當你要解決一個很大、很複雜的問題時
09:33
sometimes有時 the solution is to slice it
into smaller problems問題.
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有時候你要將這個問題分割成幾個細小的問題
09:37
That's what we do for most problems問題 -- in
math數學 and physics物理, even in social社會 policy政策 --
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這是我們解決大部分問題的方法-
在數學上、物理上、甚至社會政策上
09:40
we slice them into smaller, more
manageable管理 problems問題.
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我們將問題分割成較細少的、較容易處理的問題
09:44
But every一切 once一旦 in a while,
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但是,總有一些時候
09:46
as Dwight德懷特 Eisenhower艾森豪威爾 said,
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像(前美國總統)艾森豪曾經講過
09:48
the way you solve解決 a problem問題
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你解決問題的方法
09:49
is to make it bigger.
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就是要將它放大
09:52
The way we solve解決 this problem問題
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我們現在處理死刑這個問題
09:55
is to make the issue問題 of the death死亡
penalty罰款 bigger.
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正正就是要將死刑的事件變大
09:59
We have to say, all right.
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我們要說,好了
10:02
We have these four chapters
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我們有這四個
10:04
of a death死亡 penalty罰款 story故事,
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關於死刑故事章節
10:07
but what happens發生 before
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但甚麼發生
10:08
that story故事 begins開始?
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在這個故事之前呢?
10:11
How can we intervene干預 in the life of a murderer兇手
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我們可以怎樣在一個人變成殺人犯之前
10:15
before he's a murderer兇手?
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阻止這件事情發生呢?
10:18
What options選項 do we have
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我們有甚麼選擇
10:20
to nudge微調 that person
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去把這個人
10:22
off of the path路徑
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輕輕推出這條不歸路呢
10:23
that is going to lead to a result結果 that
everybody每個人 --
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這個問題引領我們到一個結局,每個人-
10:27
death死亡 penalty罰款 supporters支持者 and death死亡 penalty罰款
opponents對手 --
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死刑支持者也好,反對死刑的人也好-
10:30
still think
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都認為是
10:31
is a bad result結果:
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一個悲哀的結局:
10:33
the murder謀殺 of an innocent無辜 human人的 being存在?
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一個無辜的人被殺?
10:38
You know, sometimes有時 people say
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你知道,有時候人們會說
10:40
that something
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有些事情
10:42
isn't rocket火箭 science科學.
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並非“火箭科學”
10:44
And by that, what they mean is rocket火箭
science科學 is really complicated複雜
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他們這樣說,就是指火箭科學的確很複雜
10:47
and this problem問題 that we're talking
about now is really simple簡單.
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相對地,我們今日探討的問題就簡單得多
10:51
Well that's rocket火箭 science科學;
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哎喲... 其實我們今天討論的問題確實是一種火箭科學
10:52
that's the mathematical數學的 expression表達
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就像推進火箭發射
10:54
for the thrust推力 created創建 by a rocket火箭.
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所用的數學公式一樣
10:58
What we're talking about today今天
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今天我們所討論的問題
11:00
is just as complicated複雜.
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就是一樣的複雜
11:02
What we're talking about today今天 is also
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我們今天所討論的問題
11:05
rocket火箭 science科學.
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就是高深的科學
11:08
My client客戶 Will
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我的當時人威廉
11:09
and 80 percent百分 of the people on
death死亡 row
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跟百分之八十的死囚一樣
11:12
had five chapters in their lives生活
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他們的生命中有五個章節
11:16
that came來了 before
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在死囚故事
11:17
the four chapters of the death死亡 penalty罰款
story故事.
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的四個章節前發生
11:19
I think of these five chapters as points
of intervention介入,
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我視這五個章節為我們的“介入點”
11:24
places地方 in their lives生活 when our society社會
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一些我們的社會可以
11:27
could've可能已經 intervened干預 in their lives生活 and
nudged碰一碰 them off of the path路徑 that they were on
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介入他們的生活、把他們輕輕推出這條不歸路的機會
11:32
that created創建 a consequence後果 that we all -- death死亡 penalty罰款 supporters支持者 or death死亡
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一個我們-死刑支持者或
11:36
penalty罰款 opponents對手 --
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反對死刑的人-
11:37
say was a bad result結果.
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都認為是悲哀的結局
11:40
Now, during each of these five
chapters:
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現在,我要談談這五個章節:
11:42
when his mother母親 was pregnant with him;
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第一,當他媽媽懷著他的時候
11:44
in his early childhood童年 years年份;
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第二,在他童年時
11:46
when he was in elementary初級 school學校;
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第三,在他讀小學的時候
11:48
when he was in middle中間 school學校 and then high
school學校;
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第四,在他上初中和高中的時候
11:50
and when he was in the juvenile少年 justice正義
system系統 -- during each of those five chapters,
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第五,在他接觸少年司法制度的時候-每一個階段裏
11:54
there were a wide variety品種 of things that society社會 could have doneDONE.
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我們的社會都有一系列的事情可以做
11:57
In fact事實, if we just imagine想像
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實際上,我們可以想像
11:59
that there are five different不同 modes模式 of
intervention介入, the way that society社會 could intervene干預
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我們有五種不同的介入方式,在五個不同的章節裏
12:04
in each of those five chapters,
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可以有不同的方式
12:06
and we could mix混合 and match比賽 them any way
we want,
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我們可以依據我們喜好混合和搭配不同方式
12:08
there are 3,000 -- more than 3,000 -- possible可能 strategies策略
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這樣我們有三千種-多於三千種-可以使用的策略
12:12
that we could embrace擁抱 in order訂購 to nudge微調
kids孩子 like Will
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去把這些像威廉一樣的青少年
12:16
off of the path路徑 that they're on.
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輕輕推出他們踏上的不歸路
12:19
So I'm not standing常設 here today今天
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今天,我站在這裏
12:21
with the solution.
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並沒有一個確實的解決方案
12:23
But the fact事實 that we still have a lot to learn學習,
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事實上,我們還有很多東西需要學習
12:27
that doesn't mean that we don't know a lot already已經.
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但這並不代表我們所知的有限
12:31
We know from experience經驗 in other states狀態
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我們從其他州份的經驗知道
12:34
that there are a wide variety品種 of modes模式
of intervention介入
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一系列的介入方式已經存在
12:37
that we could be using運用 in Texas德州, and in
every一切 other state that isn't using運用 them,
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而且可以應用在德州,和其他還沒有使用這些介入方式的州份
12:41
in order訂購 to prevent避免 a consequence後果 that we all agree同意 is bad.
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去阻止一個我們都認為是悲哀的結局
12:46
I'll just mention提到 a few少數.
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我會在以下提及一部分
12:49
I won't慣於 talk today今天 about reforming改革 the
legal法律 system系統.
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今天,我不會提及司法制度的改革
12:53
That's probably大概 a topic話題 that is best最好
reserved保留的 for a room房間 full充分 of lawyers律師 and judges法官.
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這個題目最好預留給一眾律師及法官
12:57
Instead代替, let me talk about a couple一對 of
modes模式 of intervention介入
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反而,我希望探討一些介入的方式
13:01
that we can all help accomplish完成,
258
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一些我們都可以推動的方式
13:04
because they are modes模式 of intervention介入
that will come about
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因為這些方式需要得到
13:06
when legislators立法者 and policymakers政策制定者, when taxpayers納稅人 and citizens公民,
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議員、政策制定者、納稅人和民眾
13:10
agree同意 that that's what we ought應該 to be
doing
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的支持,認同這是我們應該做的事
13:12
and that's how we ought應該 to be spending開支 our money.
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2334
以及認為我們應該這樣投放公帑
13:15
We could be providing提供 early childhood童年 care關心
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我們可以提供早期的托兒服務
13:17
for economically經濟 disadvantaged劣勢 and
otherwise除此以外 troubled苦惱 kids孩子,
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5814
去幫助低收入及有潛在危機的兒童
13:23
and we could be doing it for free自由.
265
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我們可以兒費提供這類服務
13:25
And we could be nudging輕推 kids孩子 like Will
off of the path路徑 that we're on.
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4110
這樣我們可以及早把那些像威廉一樣的誤入歧途的孩子扶正
13:29
There are other states狀態 that do that, but we don't.
267
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有一些州份正提供這些服務,但我們沒有
13:33
We could be providing提供 special特別 schools學校, at
both the high school學校 level水平
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4101
我們亦可以提供特殊教育,在高中、
13:37
and the middle中間 school學校 level水平, but even in K-K-5,
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3367
以及初中程度,甚至幼稚園至小學
13:41
that target目標 economically經濟 and otherwise除此以外
disadvantaged劣勢 kids孩子, and particularly尤其 kids孩子
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特別針對那些來自低收入家庭、弱勢群體,以至
13:45
who have had exposure曝光
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曾經接觸少年司法制度的
13:46
to the juvenile少年 justice正義 system系統.
272
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2100
青少年
13:48
There are a handful少數 of states狀態 that do that;
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在一些州份正在執行這類工作
13:50
Texas德州 doesn't.
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但德州沒有
13:53
There's one other thing we can be doing --
275
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另外,也有一樣事情我們可以做-
13:55
well, there are a bunch of other things that we could be doing -- there's one other thing that we could be
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哎呀,事實上我們有很多其他事情可以做-但有一樣
13:57
doing that I'm going to mention提到, and this is
gonna be the only controversial爭論的 thing
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我想在這裏提及,而這件事是我今天要探討的
14:00
that I say today今天.
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唯一一件富爭議的事情
14:02
We could be intervening介入
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1300
我們可以
14:04
much more aggressively積極
280
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2100
更積極地介入
14:06
into dangerously危險 dysfunctional功能失調 homes家園,
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去從一些已經失效的家庭裏
14:09
and getting得到 kids孩子 out of them
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在孩子的母親拿起屠刀、威脅要殺死他們前
14:11
before their moms媽媽 pick up butcher屠夫 knives
and threaten威脅 to kill them.
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帶走孩子
14:16
If we're gonna do that,
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如果我們真的要這樣做
14:18
we need a place地點 to put them.
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我們需要一個地方去安置他們
14:20
Even if we do all of those things, some
kids孩子 are going to fall秋季 through通過 the cracks裂縫
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即使我們做足所有事情,總有一些孩子會踏上歧途
14:24
and they're going to end結束 up in that last
chapter章節 before the murder謀殺 story故事 begins開始,
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這時他們會進入殺人故事前的最後章節
14:27
they're going to end結束 up in the juvenile少年
justice正義 system系統.
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他們會接觸到少年司法制度
14:29
And even if that happens發生,
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即使這件事情發生
14:32
it's not yet然而 too late晚了.
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亦不代表為時已晚
14:34
There's still time to nudge微調 them,
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我們還有時間把他們帶回正軌
14:37
if we think about nudging輕推 them
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只要我們想帶他們重回正軌
14:39
rather than just punishing懲罰 them.
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而非懲罰他們
14:41
There are two professors教授 in the Northeast東北 --
one at Yale耶魯 and one at Maryland馬里蘭 --
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東北部有兩位大學教授-一位在耶魯,另一位在馬里蘭-
14:44
they set up a school學校
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他們籌辦了一所學校
14:46
that is attached to a juvenile少年 prison監獄.
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一所附設於少年監獄的學校
14:50
And the kids孩子 are in prison監獄, but they go
to school學校 from eight in the morning早上
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那些少年正在監獄服刑,但他們從早上八時至
14:53
until直到 four in the afternoon下午.
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下午四時都在學校上課
14:55
Now, it was logistically後勤 difficult.
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這當然有統籌上的困難
14:56
They had to recruit teachers教師
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他們很難找到
14:57
who wanted to teach inside a prison監獄, they had to establish建立 strict嚴格
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願意在監獄工作的教師,他們需要建立一套
15:01
separation分割 between之間 the people who work
at the school學校 and the prison監獄 authorities當局,
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將教學人員及監獄工作人員分隔的系統
15:04
and most dauntingly嚇人 of all, they needed需要
to invent發明 a new curriculum課程 because
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而最令人怯步的,是他們需要創造一套全新的課程
15:07
you know what?
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你知道為甚麼嗎?
15:08
People don't come into and out of prison監獄
on a semester學期 basis基礎.
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少年犯不會依著學期的開始、完結進出監獄
15:14
But they did all those things.
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但這些事情他們都辦到了
15:17
Now what do all of these things have in common共同?
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這些介入方法有甚麼共通的地方呢
15:20
What all of these things have in common共同
is that they cost成本 money.
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他們共通的地方就是它們都需要經費
15:26
Some of the people in the room房間 might威力 be
old enough足夠 to remember記得
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你們當中或許有些人比較年長
15:29
the guy on the old oil filter過濾 commercial廣告.
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記得那個古老的機油過濾器廣告
15:33
He used to say, "Well, you can pay工資 me now
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那個人說: 哎喲,你可以今天付鈔
15:37
or you can pay工資 me later後來."
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或者以後才付款
15:40
What we're doing
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現在我們的
15:42
in the death死亡 penalty罰款 system系統
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死刑制度
15:44
is we're paying付款 later後來.
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就是延後付鈔
15:48
But the thing is
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但問題是
15:49
that for every一切 15,000 dollars美元
that we spend intervening介入
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今大我們花一萬五千元
15:53
in the lives生活 of economically經濟 and
otherwise除此以外 disadvantaged劣勢 kids孩子
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在較早的章節裏介入
15:58
in those earlier chapters,
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那些來自低收入家庭、有潛在危機的孩子的生活時
15:59
we save保存 80,000 dollars美元 in crime-related與犯罪有關 costs成本 down the road.
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我們可以在以後的道路上,省卻與犯罪相關的八萬元支出
16:03
Even if you don't agree同意
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即使你不同意
16:05
that there's a moral道德 imperative勢在必行 that we do it,
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我們有必要的道德責任去履行這些事
16:09
it just makes品牌 economic經濟 sense.
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它們都符合經濟原則
16:14
I want to tell you about the last conversation會話 that
I had with Will.
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我想告訴你我跟威廉的最後對話
16:18
It was the day that he was going to be executed執行,
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那是他將要行刑的當日
16:22
and we were just talking.
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我們在談天
16:26
There was nothing left to do
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在他的案件中
16:27
in his case案件.
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我們都沒有其他事情可以做
16:29
And we were talking about his life.
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所以只好談談他的人生
16:31
And he was talking first about his dad,
who he hardly幾乎不 knew知道,
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他先講他的父親,一個他不太認識的父親
16:34
who had died死亡,
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已經去世的父親
16:35
and then about his mom媽媽,
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接著是他母親
16:38
who he did know,
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這個人他認識
16:40
who is still alive.
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而且她還在生
16:42
And I said to him,
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我告訴他
16:44
"I know the story故事.
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我知道你的故事
16:46
I've read the records記錄.
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我看過你的檔案
16:48
I know that she tried試著 to kill you."
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我知道她曾經要殺死你
16:51
I said, "But I've always wondered想知道 whether是否 you
really
339
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我說: 但我很疑惑
16:53
actually其實 remember記得 that."
340
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為甚麼你還記得起這件事情
16:55
I said, "I don't remember記得 anything
341
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1503
我說: 五歲發生的事情
16:57
from when I was five years年份 old.
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我一點也記不起
16:59
Maybe you just remember記得 somebody telling告訴 you."
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可能你只是記得有人想過要殺你
17:02
And he looked看著 at me and he leaned湊近 forward前鋒,
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2500
接著,他向前傾,望著我說
17:05
and he said, "Professor教授," -- he'd他會 known已知 me for
12 years年份, he still called me Professor教授.
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教授-他已經認識我十二年了,但仍然稱呼我為教授
17:08
He said, "Professor教授, I don't mean any
disrespect by this,
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他說: 教授,我無意對你不敬
17:11
but when your mama媽媽
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1651
但如果你的媽媽
17:13
picks精選 up a butcher屠夫 knife that looks容貌 bigger
than you are,
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3100
拿起一把好像比你還要大的屠刀
17:16
and chases追逐 you through通過 the house
screaming尖叫 she's gonna kill you,
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跑遍全屋追逐你,並呼喊要殺死你
17:20
and you have to lock yourself你自己 in the
bathroom浴室 and lean against反對 the door and
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你要把自己反鎖在浴室、靠著門
17:24
holler抱怨 for help until直到 the police警察 get
there,"
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求她放過你,直至警察到來
17:27
he looked看著 at me and he said,
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他望著我、然後說
17:30
"that's something you don't forget忘記."
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這是你一生都難以忘記的事情
17:33
I hope希望 there's one thing you all won't慣於 forget忘記:
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我希望有一件事情你們永遠都不會忘記
17:36
In between之間 the time you arrived到達 here
this morning早上 and the time we break打破 for lunch午餐,
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在你今天早上進入會場直至我們吃午餐的時間
17:39
there are going to be four homicides殺人
356
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美國境內發生了
17:42
in the United聯合的 States狀態.
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四宗兇殺案
17:43
We're going to devote奉獻 enormous巨大 social社會
resources資源 to punishing懲罰 the people who
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我們需要調撥大量的社會資源去懲罰這些
17:48
commit承諾 those crimes犯罪, and that's
appropriate適當, because we should punish懲治
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干犯罪行的人。這是理所當然的,因為我們應該懲罰
17:50
people who do bad things.
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做壞事的人
17:52
But three of those crimes犯罪 are
preventable預防的.
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但是這四宗案件中,有三宗是可以避免的
17:56
If we make the picture圖片 bigger
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如果我們把這個局面放大
17:59
and devote奉獻 our attention注意 to the
earlier chapters,
363
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把我們的注意力放在較早的章節中
18:03
then we're never going to write the
first sentence句子
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那我們就毋須再寫下死刑幫絕書
18:07
that begins開始 the death死亡 penalty罰款 story故事.
365
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的第一個句子
18:08
Thank you.
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謝謝
18:10
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
Translated by Jonas Lau
Reviewed by Yuguo Zhang

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
David R. Dow - Death penalty lawyer
David R. Dow has defended over 100 death row inmates in 20 years.

Why you should listen

What does it feel like to know exactly the day and time you’re going to die -- because the state has decided for you? As a death penalty attorney in Texas, the state with the highest death penalty rate in the US, David R. Dow asks himself questions like this every day. In the past 20 years he has defended over 100 death row inmates, many of whom have died -- and most of whom were guilty. But according to an interview with Dow, “They should have been sentenced to life in prison instead of death at the hands of the state.” Dow is the Litigation Director at the Texas Defender Service and the Founder and Co-director of the Texas Innocence Network, an organization in which law students provide pro bono legal services to investigate claims of actual innocence brought by Texas prisoners. He writes on contract law, constitutional law and theory, and death penalty law, and has most recently published a book called The Autobiography of an Execution, partly a memoir and partly about the politics of capital punishment. Dow is a professor at the University of Houston Law Center.

More profile about the speaker
David R. Dow | Speaker | TED.com