ABOUT THE SPEAKER
David R. Dow - Death penalty lawyer
David R. Dow has defended over 100 death row inmates in 20 years.

Why you should listen

What does it feel like to know exactly the day and time you’re going to die -- because the state has decided for you? As a death penalty attorney in Texas, the state with the highest death penalty rate in the US, David R. Dow asks himself questions like this every day. In the past 20 years he has defended over 100 death row inmates, many of whom have died -- and most of whom were guilty. But according to an interview with Dow, “They should have been sentenced to life in prison instead of death at the hands of the state.” Dow is the Litigation Director at the Texas Defender Service and the Founder and Co-director of the Texas Innocence Network, an organization in which law students provide pro bono legal services to investigate claims of actual innocence brought by Texas prisoners. He writes on contract law, constitutional law and theory, and death penalty law, and has most recently published a book called The Autobiography of an Execution, partly a memoir and partly about the politics of capital punishment. Dow is a professor at the University of Houston Law Center.

More profile about the speaker
David R. Dow | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxAustin

David R. Dow: Lessons from death row inmates

David R. Dow: 从死刑囚犯中得出的道理

Filmed:
3,920,670 views

在一次谋杀之前会发生什么呢?为了寻找方式去减少死刑判罚案件,David R. Row意识到了有惊讶数目的一部分死刑囚犯都有着相似的经历。在这个演讲中他提出了一个大胆的方案,一个能够第一手制止谋杀的方案。 (在TED 德州奥斯丁拍摄)
- Death penalty lawyer
David R. Dow has defended over 100 death row inmates in 20 years. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:17
Two weeks ago,
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两周前,
00:19
I was sitting坐在 at the
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我和我的妻子,卡特亚,
00:21
kitchen厨房 table with my wife妻子 Katya卡佳,
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坐在餐桌旁,
00:24
and we were talking about what I was gonna talk about today今天.
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我们两人当时谈论着我今天将要讨论的事情。
00:29
We have an 11-year-old-岁 son儿子; his name名称 is Lincoln林肯. He was sitting坐在 at the same相同 table
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我们有个11岁大的儿子;叫林肯。他当时也坐在同一张餐桌旁
00:34
doing his math数学 homework家庭作业.
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做他的数学作业。
00:37
And during a pause暂停 in my conversation会话
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我和卡特亚的谈话暂停了一下,
00:39
with Katya卡佳, I looked看着 over at Lincoln林肯
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我看着林肯
00:42
and I was suddenly突然 thunderstruck吓坏的
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然后突然被我想起来的一位客户的经历所
00:46
by a recollection回忆 of a client客户 of mine.
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震惊了。
00:49
My client客户 was a guy named命名 Will.
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我的客户是一个叫威尔的男孩。
00:52
He was from North Texas德州.
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他来自北德克萨斯。
00:54
He never knew知道 his father父亲 very well, because his father父亲 left
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他的父亲在他母亲怀着他的时候就离开了他们,所以
00:59
his mom妈妈 while she was pregnant with him.
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从没见过他的父亲。
01:03
And so, he was destined注定 to be raised上调 by a single mom妈妈,
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所以,命中注定他成长在一个单亲妈妈的家庭,
01:07
which哪一个 might威力 have been all right
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也许他可以成长的很好
01:09
except that this particular特定 single mom妈妈
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只是他的特殊的单身母亲
01:11
was a paranoid偏执 schizophrenic精神分裂症,
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有偏执型精神分裂症,
01:14
and when Will was five years年份 old she
tried试着 to kill him with a butcher屠夫 knife.
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更糟糕的是她曾经想用一把屠刀杀死只有5岁的威尔。
01:19
She was
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她被
01:21
taken采取 away by authorities当局 and placed放置 in a
psychiatric精神病 hospital醫院,
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警察带走后并被送进了精神病院,
01:25
and so for the next下一个 several一些 years年份 Will
lived生活 with his older旧的 brother哥哥
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那之后的几年威尔和他的哥哥生活在一起直到
01:28
until直到 he committed提交 suicide自杀 by shooting射击
himself他自己 through通过 the heart.
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他的哥哥将一颗子弹送进了自己的心脏。
01:31
And after that
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那之后
01:34
Will bounced反弹 around from one family家庭
member会员 to another另一个,
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威尔就在亲戚家中轮流居住,
01:37
until直到, by the time he was nine years年份 old,
he was essentially实质上 living活的 on his own拥有.
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直到,他九岁的时候,他基本上只是自己独自生活了。
01:43
That morning早上 that I was sitting坐在 with
Katya卡佳 and Lincoln林肯, I looked看着 at my son儿子,
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那天早上我,卡特亚和林肯坐在一起,我看着我的儿子,
01:47
and I realized实现 that when my client客户, Will,
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我意识到当我的客户,威尔,
01:51
was his age年龄,
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和我儿子一样大的时候,
01:53
he'd他会 been living活的 by himself他自己 for two years年份.
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他已经独自生活了两年了。
01:57
Will eventually终于 joined加盟 a gang结伙
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威尔最后加入了黑手党
02:00
and committed提交
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并严重触犯了
02:01
a number of very serious严重 crimes犯罪,
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一系列法律,
02:04
including包含, most seriously认真地 of all,
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包括,其中最严重,
02:07
a horrible可怕, tragic悲惨 murder谋杀.
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一场可怕,悲剧性的谋杀。
02:09
And Will was ultimately最终 executed执行
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威尔最后被判处死刑
02:15
as punishment惩罚 for that crime犯罪.
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作为犯罪的惩罚。
02:17
But I don't want to
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但是今天我不打算
02:20
talk today今天
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谈论
02:22
about the morality道德 of capital首都 punishment惩罚. I certainly当然 think that my client客户
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关于死刑的道德问题。我坚定的认为
02:26
shouldn't不能 have been executed执行, but what I would like to do today今天 instead代替
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我的客户不应该被判死刑,但是我今天想从一个
02:31
is talk about the death死亡 penalty罚款
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以前没有讨论过的角度去
02:34
in a way I've never doneDONE before,
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谈一谈死刑,
02:36
in a way
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一个
02:38
that is entirely完全 noncontroversial无争议.
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完全无可争议的角度。
02:40
I think that's possible可能,
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我认为这是可能的,
02:43
because there is a corner
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因为总有一个关于死刑争议
02:46
of the death死亡 penalty罚款 debate辩论 --
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的角落--
02:48
maybe the most important重要 corner --
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也许是最重要的角落--
02:49
where everybody每个人 agrees同意,
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所有人都可以认同,
02:52
where the most ardent热心 death死亡 penalty罚款 supporters支持者
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其中死刑最忠实的拥护者
02:56
and the most vociferous喧嚷 abolitionists废奴主义者
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和坚持废除死刑的人
03:00
are on exactly究竟 the same相同 page.
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都认同的事。
03:03
That's the corner I want to explore探索.
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那就是我想探索的角落。
03:07
Before I do that, though虽然, I want to spend a couple一对 of minutes分钟 telling告诉 you how a death死亡
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在这之前,可是,我想几分钟时间向你们说明一下
03:11
penalty罚款 case案件 unfolds展开,
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死刑案例是如何开展的,
03:13
and then I want to tell you two lessons教训 that I have learned学到了 over the last 20 years年份
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之后我想再告诉你们过去的20年中
03:19
as a death死亡 penalty罚款 lawyer律师,
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作为一个死刑律师我学到的两件事,
03:21
from watching观看 well more than a hundred cases unfold展开 in this way.
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从过去以这样的形式已经开展的上百例案件。
03:26
You can think of a death死亡 penalty罚款 case案件 as
a story故事
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您可以把死刑案件看做的一个
03:30
that has four chapters.
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有四个章节的故事。
03:32
The first chapter章节 of every一切 case案件 is exactly究竟 the same相同,
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每宗个案的第一章是完全相同的,
03:35
and it is tragic悲惨.
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是个悲剧。
03:37
It begins开始 with the murder谋杀
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它始于谋杀
03:38
of an innocent无辜 human人的 being存在,
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无辜的人,
03:41
and it's followed其次 by a trial审讯
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接下来是审判
03:43
where the murderer凶手 is convicted被定罪 and sent发送 to death死亡 row,
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法庭上杀人凶手被定罪为死囚,
03:45
and that death死亡 sentence句子 is ultimately最终
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最终,
03:47
upheld坚持 by the state appellate受理上诉的 court法庭.
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被州诉讼法院判为死刑。
03:49
The second第二 chapter章节 consists of a
complicated复杂 legal法律 proceeding诉讼 known已知 as
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第二章由复杂的法律程序组成,称为
03:54
a state habeas人身保护令 corpus文集 appeal上诉.
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州人身保护诉讼令。
03:57
The third第三 chapter章节 is an even more complicated复杂 legal法律 proceeding诉讼 known已知 as a
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第三章的法律程序更为复杂,称为
04:00
federal联邦 habeas人身保护令 corpus文集 proceeding诉讼.
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联邦人身保护令程序。
04:02
And the fourth第四 chapter章节
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第四章中
04:04
is one where a variety品种 of things can happen发生. The lawyers律师 might威力 file文件 a clemency宽大 petition请愿,
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各种各样的事情都可能发生。律师们可能会提出申请,
04:08
they might威力 initiate发起 even more complex复杂
litigation诉讼,
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他们可能会引发更多复杂的诉讼,
04:11
or they might威力 not do anything at all.
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或者,他们可能什么都不做。
04:14
But that fourth第四 chapter章节 always ends结束
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但这四章总是以
04:15
with an execution执行.
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执行死刑结束。
04:18
When I started开始 representing代表 death死亡 row
inmates囚犯 more than 20 years年份 ago,
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当我 20 多年前开始为死囚牢房的囚犯做代表的时候,
04:23
people on death死亡 row did not have a right
to a lawyer律师 in either the second第二
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死囚并没有使用律师的权利,在这个故事的第二章
04:26
or the fourth第四 chapter章节 of this story故事.
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或第四章。
04:29
They were on their own拥有.
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他们得靠自己。
04:31
In fact事实, it wasn't until直到 the late晚了 1980s that they acquired后天 a
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事实上,直到20世纪80年代他们才获得在
04:34
right to a lawyer律师 during the third第三 chapter章节
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这个故事的第三章期间
04:36
of the story故事.
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使用律师的权利。
04:38
So what all of these death死亡 row inmates囚犯 had to do
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所以所有这些死囚犯人不得不
04:41
was rely依靠 on volunteer志愿者 lawyers律师
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依靠志愿律师
04:44
to handle处理 their legal法律 proceedings诉讼.
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来处理他们的法律诉讼。
04:46
The problem问题 is that there were way more
guys on death死亡 row
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问题是死囚的数量比起
04:49
than there were lawyers律师 who had both the interest利益 and the expertise专门知识 to work on these cases.
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对死囚案件有兴趣以及具有相关技能的律师更多。
04:55
And so inevitably必将,
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所以不可避免的是,
04:56
lawyers律师 drifted漂流 to cases that were
already已经 in chapter章节 four --
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律师漂流到了已经在第四章的案件 — —
05:00
that makes品牌 sense, of course课程. Those are the
cases that are most urgent紧急;
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这的确有道理,当然。这些案件都是最迫切的 ;
05:03
those are the guys who are closest最近的 to being存在 executed执行.
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这些家伙都是最接近于执行死刑的人。
05:06
Some of these lawyers律师 were successful成功; they managed管理 to get new trials试验 for their clients客户.
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这些律师有的成功的为他们的客户争取到了新的审判。
05:10
Others其他 of them managed管理 to extend延伸
the lives生活 of their clients客户, sometimes有时 by
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其他的设法延长了他们的客户生命,有时
05:14
years年份, sometimes有时 by months个月.
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是几年,有时是几个月。
05:16
But the one thing that didn't happen发生
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但有一件事没有发生,
05:18
was that there was never a serious严重 and
sustained持续 decline下降 in the number of
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在德克萨斯州,每年处决的人数从没有
05:23
annual全年 executions处决 in Texas德州.
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真正意义的持续下降。
05:25
In fact事实, as you can see from this graph图形,
from the time that the Texas德州 execution执行
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实际上,正如您看到的这张图表,从20世纪90年代中期到晚期,
05:29
apparatus仪器 got efficient高效 in the mid-中- to
late-晚了-1990s,
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德克萨斯州执行机构有了执行能力,
05:32
there've已经有 only been a couple一对 of years年份 where
the number of annual全年 executions处决 dipped
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只有过了几年每年处决的人数在下降
05:37
below下面 20.
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到20个案例以下。
05:39
In a typical典型 year in Texas德州,
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德克萨斯州一年中,
05:40
we're averaging平均 about
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我们现在平均大约
05:43
two people a month.
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每个月有两人被执行。
05:44
In some years年份 in Texas德州, we've我们已经 executed执行
close to 40 people, and this number
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在德克萨斯州的一些年里,我们曾经执行过近 40 人,并且这一数字
05:49
has never significantly显著 declined下降 over
the last 15 years年份.
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在过去的 15 年中从来没有显著下降过。
05:54
And yet然而, at the same相同 time that we
continue继续 to execute执行
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然而,同时,我们继续执行
05:57
about the same相同 number of people every一切
year,
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几乎每年相同数量的人数,
05:59
the number of people who we're sentencing宣判
to death死亡
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我们正在宣判死刑的人数
06:02
on an annual全年 basis基础
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以年为单位
06:03
has dropped下降 rather steeply.
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在急剧下降。
06:06
So we have this paradox悖论,
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所以我们得出这种自相矛盾的结论,
06:07
which哪一个 is that the number of annual全年
executions处决 has remained保持 high
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就是每年处决的人数保持很高
06:12
but the number of new death死亡 sentences句子
has gone走了 down.
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但新的死刑判决的数目下降了。
06:16
Why is that?
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这是为什么?
06:17
It can't be attributed由于 to a decline下降 in the murder谋杀 rate,
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它不能归咎于谋杀数量的下降,
06:20
because the murder谋杀 rate has not declined下降
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因为谋杀数量没有下降
06:22
nearly几乎 so steeply as the red line线 on
that graph图形 has gone走了 down.
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近那么快,图上的红线已经减少了。
06:26
What has happened发生 instead代替 is
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取而代之,
06:29
that juries陪审团 have started开始 to sentence句子
more and more people to prison监狱
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陪审团着手把更多的人判入监狱
06:33
for the rest休息 of their lives生活 without the
possibility可能性 of parole言语,
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终生监禁他们完全没有释放的机会,
06:36
rather than sending发出 them to the
execution执行 chamber.
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而不是将它们发送到死刑室。
06:40
Why has that happened发生?
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为什么?
06:42
it hasn't有没有 happened发生 because of a
dissolution解散 of popular流行 support支持
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这不是因民意支持取消
06:47
for the death死亡 penalty罚款. Death死亡 penalty罚款 opponents对手 take great solace慰藉 in the fact事实
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死刑。死刑反对者获得了极大的安慰是因为
06:50
that death死亡 penalty罚款 support支持 in Texas德州 is at
an all-time整天 low.
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在德克萨斯州的死刑支持率正处于历史低点。
06:55
Do you know what all-time整天 low in Texas德州
means手段?
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你知道在德克萨斯州创历史新低意味着什么吗?
06:57
It means手段 that it's in the low 60 percent百分.
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这意味着它是低于60%。
06:59
Now that's really good compared相比 to the
mid 1980s, when it was in
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与之相比,一个很好的例子是80年代中期,当时
07:03
excess过量 of 80 percent百分,
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这个数字是超过 80%,
07:05
but we can't explain说明 the decline下降 in
death死亡 sentences句子 and the affinity亲和力 for
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但我们不能简单的解释死刑判决的减少是因为人们对生命的关注
07:09
life without the possibility可能性 of parole言语
by an erosion侵蚀 of support支持 for the death死亡
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而把死刑支持者言论减少的可能性排除在外。
07:13
penalty罚款, because people still support支持 the
death死亡 penalty罚款.
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,因为有人仍支持死刑。
07:16
What's happened发生 to cause原因 this phenomenon现象?
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发生了什么,导致这种现象呢?
07:19
What's happened发生 is
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说发生的事是
07:20
that lawyers律师
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这些代表死囚的律师们
07:21
who represent代表 death死亡 row inmates囚犯 have
shifted their focus焦点
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已经开始将他们的注意力向更早
07:25
to earlier and earlier chapters of the
death死亡 penalty罚款 story故事.
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死刑故事的章节。
07:29
So 25 years年份 ago, they focused重点 on
chapter章节 four.
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所以 25 年前,他们关注第四章。
07:33
And they went from chapter章节 four 25 years年份 ago to chapter章节 three
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25年前,80年代后期,他们从
07:36
in the late晚了 1980s.
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第四章转移到了第三章。
07:38
And they went from chapter章节 three in the
late晚了 1980s to chapter章节 two in
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他们从八十年代后期第 3 章中进入到了
07:42
the mid-中-1990s. And beginning开始
in the mid-中- to late-晚了-1990s,
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上世纪 90 年代中期的了第两章。从90年代中期到后期,
07:45
they began开始 to focus焦点 on chapter章节 one of
the story故事.
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他们开始专注于故事的第一章。
07:48
Now you might威力 think that this decline下降 in
death死亡 sentences句子 and the increase增加 in the
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现在,你也许会认为死刑判决的减少和上升的
07:52
number of life sentences句子 is a good thing
or a bad thing.
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终身监禁刑罚的人数是一件好事或坏事。
07:54
I don't want to have a conversation会话 about that
today今天.
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我今天不想讨论。
07:57
All that I want to tell you is that the
reason原因 that this has happened发生
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所有的我想要告诉是发生的理由
08:00
is because death死亡 penalty罚款 lawyers律师 have
understood了解
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正是因为死刑律师能看明白
08:03
that the earlier you intervene干预 in a
case案件,
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在你的案例中越早干预,
08:06
the greater更大 the likelihood可能性 that you're
going to save保存 your client's客户 life.
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你越有希望保护你的客户的生命。
08:11
That's the first thing I've learned学到了.
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这是我所学到的第一件事。
08:12
Here's这里的 the second第二 thing I learned学到了:
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我学到了第二件事:
08:14
My client客户 Will
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我的客户威尔
08:16
was not the exception例外 to the rule规则;
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并不是个规则的例外;
08:19
he was the rule规则.
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他就是规则。
08:22
I sometimes有时 say, if you tell me the name名称
of a death死亡 row inmate犯人 --
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我有时会说,如果你告诉我一个死囚犯人的名字— —
08:26
doesn't matter what state he's in, doesn't matter if I've ever met会见 him before --
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不管他现在是什么状态也不管我之前是否见过他 — —
08:29
I'll write his biography for you.
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我可以为你写出他的自传。
08:31
And eight out of 10 times,
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80%的情况下,
08:34
the details细节 of that biography
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该传记的细节
08:36
will be more or less accurate准确.
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或多或少是准确的。
08:39
And the reason原因 for that is that 80 percent百分 of the people on death死亡 row are
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原因是 80%的死囚
08:43
people who came来了 from the same相同 sort分类 of
dysfunctional功能失调 family家庭 that Will did.
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都来自同一种功能失调的家庭。
08:47
Eighty八十 percent百分 of the people on death死亡 row
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80%的死囚
08:48
are people who had exposure曝光
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都接触过
08:51
to the juvenile少年 justice正义 system系统.
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少年司法制度系统。
08:53
That's the second第二 lesson
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这就是我学会的
08:55
that I've learned学到了.
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第二个教训。
08:57
Now we're right on the cusp风口浪尖 of that corner
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现在我们就在那个角落的尖点
09:01
where everybody's每个人的 going to agree同意.
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那里每个人都认同。
09:04
People in this room房间 might威力 disagree不同意
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在这个房间里的人可能不同意
09:06
about whether是否 Will should have been
executed执行,
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关于威尔是否应该被执行死刑,
09:08
but I think everybody每个人 would agree同意
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但我想大家都会同意
09:11
that the best最好 possible可能 version of his story故事
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他的故事最好的可能版本
09:14
would be a story故事
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是一个谋杀不曾出现的
09:16
where no murder谋杀 ever occurs发生.
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故事。
09:20
How do we do that?
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我们如何做哪?
09:22
When our son儿子 Lincoln林肯 was working加工 on that
math数学 problem问题
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两周前,当我们的儿子林肯正在研究这一数学问题
09:26
two weeks ago, it was a big, gnarly粗糙 problem问题.
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的时候,是一个很麻烦的问题。
09:29
And he was learning学习 how, when you have a big old gnarly粗糙 problem问题,
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他学习如何(解决问题),当你有一个麻烦的问题,
09:33
sometimes有时 the solution is to slice it
into smaller problems问题.
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有时解决方案是把它分成较小的问题。
09:37
That's what we do for most problems问题 -- in
math数学 and physics物理, even in social社会 policy政策 --
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这是我们做大多数问题--数学和物理,即使社会政策-
09:40
we slice them into smaller, more
manageable管理 problems问题.
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我们把它们分割为更小、 更易于管理的问题。
09:44
But every一切 once一旦 in a while,
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但每隔一段时间,
09:46
as Dwight德怀特 Eisenhower艾森豪威尔 said,
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正如德怀特 · 艾森豪威尔说,
09:48
the way you solve解决 a problem问题
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解决问题的方法
09:49
is to make it bigger.
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是要使它变得更大。
09:52
The way we solve解决 this problem问题
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我们解决这个问题的方法
09:55
is to make the issue问题 of the death死亡
penalty罚款 bigger.
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是要使死刑的问题更大。
09:59
We have to say, all right.
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我们不得不说,好吧。
10:02
We have these four chapters
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我们有这四章
10:04
of a death死亡 penalty罚款 story故事,
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死刑的故事,
10:07
but what happens发生 before
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但是故事开始之前
10:08
that story故事 begins开始?
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会发生什么?
10:11
How can we intervene干预 in the life of a murderer凶手
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我们如何可以凶手犯罪之前干预
10:15
before he's a murderer凶手?
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他的生活?
10:18
What options选项 do we have
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我们有哪些选择
10:20
to nudge微调 that person
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改变谋杀犯的
10:22
off of the path路径
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人生轨迹
10:23
that is going to lead to a result结果 that
everybody每个人 --
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这会导致一个结果,所有人— —
10:27
death死亡 penalty罚款 supporters支持者 and death死亡 penalty罚款
opponents对手 --
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死刑的支持者和反对者 — —
10:30
still think
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仍然认为
10:31
is a bad result结果:
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是一个糟糕的结果:
10:33
the murder谋杀 of an innocent无辜 human人的 being存在?
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一个无辜的人被杀害吗?
10:38
You know, sometimes有时 people say
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你知道,有时候人们会说
10:40
that something
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有一些事情
10:42
isn't rocket火箭 science科学.
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不是火箭科学。
10:44
And by that, what they mean is rocket火箭
science科学 is really complicated复杂
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是,他们的意思是火箭科学确实很复杂
10:47
and this problem问题 that we're talking
about now is really simple简单.
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而这个问题,我们正在谈论其实是真的非常简单。
10:51
Well that's rocket火箭 science科学;
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嗯,这是火箭科学 ;
10:52
that's the mathematical数学的 expression表达
215
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1800
这就是数学方程式
10:54
for the thrust推力 created创建 by a rocket火箭.
216
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为一枚火箭创建的推力。
10:58
What we're talking about today今天
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我们今天讨论的
11:00
is just as complicated复杂.
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事很复杂。
11:02
What we're talking about today今天 is also
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我们今天在讨论的也是
11:05
rocket火箭 science科学.
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火箭科学。
11:08
My client客户 Will
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我的客户威尔
11:09
and 80 percent百分 of the people on
death死亡 row
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和 80%的死囚
11:12
had five chapters in their lives生活
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在他们的生活中有五个章节
11:16
that came来了 before
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这都在
11:17
the four chapters of the death死亡 penalty罚款
story故事.
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死刑故事的四个章节之前。
11:19
I think of these five chapters as points
of intervention介入,
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我认为这些五个章节的干预点,
11:24
places地方 in their lives生活 when our society社会
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在他们的生活中当我们的社会
11:27
could've可能已经 intervened干预 in their lives生活 and
nudged碰一碰 them off of the path路径 that they were on
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可以介入他们的生活并改变他们正在走向一个结局,那个我们所有人
11:32
that created创建 a consequence后果 that we all -- death死亡 penalty罚款 supporters支持者 or death死亡
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— — 死刑的支持者或死刑
11:36
penalty罚款 opponents对手 --
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的反对者 — —
11:37
say was a bad result结果.
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2020
认为是很差的结局。
11:40
Now, during each of these five
chapters:
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现在,这五个章节的每个章节:
11:42
when his mother母亲 was pregnant with him;
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当他的母亲怀孕;
11:44
in his early childhood童年 years年份;
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在他早期的童年 ;
11:46
when he was in elementary初级 school学校;
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当他上小学 ;
11:48
when he was in middle中间 school学校 and then high
school学校;
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当他上中学和高中 ;
11:50
and when he was in the juvenile少年 justice正义
system系统 -- during each of those five chapters,
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当他在少年司法系统 — — 期间的每个章节,
11:54
there were a wide variety品种 of things that society社会 could have doneDONE.
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有各种各样社会能做的事情。
11:57
In fact事实, if we just imagine想像
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事实上,如果我们只是想象
11:59
that there are five different不同 modes模式 of
intervention介入, the way that society社会 could intervene干预
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有五种不同模式的干预,社会可以介入的方式
12:04
in each of those five chapters,
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五个章节的每一章,
12:06
and we could mix混合 and match比赛 them any way
we want,
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我们可以混合匹配成任何我们想要的方式,
12:08
there are 3,000 -- more than 3,000 -- possible可能 strategies策略
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有 3,000 — — 超过 3,000 — — 可能行性措施
12:12
that we could embrace拥抱 in order订购 to nudge微调
kids孩子 like Will
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我们可以帮助,像威尔一样的孩子
12:16
off of the path路径 that they're on.
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改变他们的人生之路。
12:19
So I'm not standing常设 here today今天
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1755
所以我今天不是站在这里
12:21
with the solution.
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提出解决方案。
12:23
But the fact事实 that we still have a lot to learn学习,
248
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但事实是我们仍有很多要学,
12:27
that doesn't mean that we don't know a lot already已经.
249
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这并不意味着我们一无所知。
12:31
We know from experience经验 in other states状态
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我们从其他州的经验知道
12:34
that there are a wide variety品种 of modes模式
of intervention介入
251
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有多种方式干预
12:37
that we could be using运用 in Texas德州, and in
every一切 other state that isn't using运用 them,
252
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3888
那我们可以用在得克萨斯州,并在每个其他州都不使用它们,
12:41
in order订购 to prevent避免 a consequence后果 that we all agree同意 is bad.
253
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为了防止我们都共同认为是不好的后果。
12:46
I'll just mention提到 a few少数.
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我得提一下几个。
12:49
I won't惯于 talk today今天 about reforming改革 the
legal法律 system系统.
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我今天不会讨论关于司法制度改革。
12:53
That's probably大概 a topic话题 that is best最好
reserved保留的 for a room房间 full充分 of lawyers律师 and judges法官.
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这可能是一个最好的预留给满屋子的律师和法官的话题。
12:57
Instead代替, let me talk about a couple一对 of
modes模式 of intervention介入
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3820
相反,让我谈一谈几个的干预模式
13:01
that we can all help accomplish完成,
258
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2368
我们可以所有帮助完成,
13:04
because they are modes模式 of intervention介入
that will come about
259
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2485
因为它们是将会出现的干预方式
13:06
when legislators立法者 and policymakers政策制定者, when taxpayers纳税人 and citizens公民,
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3960
当立法会议员和政策制定者,当纳税人和公民,
13:10
agree同意 that that's what we ought应该 to be
doing
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2233
一致认为这是我们应该做什么
13:12
and that's how we ought应该 to be spending开支 our money.
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而这是我们应该如何花自己的钱。
13:15
We could be providing提供 early childhood童年 care关心
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2386
我们可以提供早期儿童护理
13:17
for economically经济 disadvantaged劣势 and
otherwise除此以外 troubled苦恼 kids孩子,
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5814
帮助经济处于弱势和陷入其他困境的孩子们,
13:23
and we could be doing it for free自由.
265
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2383
并且是免费的。
13:25
And we could be nudging轻推 kids孩子 like Will
off of the path路径 that we're on.
266
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4110
这样我们就可以改变像威尔这样的孩子们的命运。
13:29
There are other states状态 that do that, but we don't.
267
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3840
已经其他州在这样做了,但我们还没有。
13:33
We could be providing提供 special特别 schools学校, at
both the high school学校 level水平
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4101
我们可以提供专门的学校,从高中
13:37
and the middle中间 school学校 level水平, but even in K-K-5,
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到初中,甚至是小学5年级的孩子,
13:41
that target目标 economically经济 and otherwise除此以外
disadvantaged劣势 kids孩子, and particularly尤其 kids孩子
270
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4389
目标是帮助经济和其他方面处于不利地位的孩子,特别是
13:45
who have had exposure曝光
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已经触犯过
13:46
to the juvenile少年 justice正义 system系统.
272
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2100
少年司法系统的孩子。
13:48
There are a handful少数 of states状态 that do that;
273
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1867
这正是几个州都在做的事 ;
13:50
Texas德州 doesn't.
274
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2682
德克萨斯州并没有。
13:53
There's one other thing we can be doing --
275
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1818
有一件事,是我们可以做的 — —
13:55
well, there are a bunch of other things that we could be doing -- there's one other thing that we could be
276
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2338
也许,有很多其他我们应该做的事情 — — 但是有一件事我们可以做的,
13:57
doing that I'm going to mention提到, and this is
gonna be the only controversial争论的 thing
277
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2562
我也不得不在这里提一下,这也是今天唯一有
14:00
that I say today今天.
278
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2633
争议的事。
14:02
We could be intervening介入
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1300
我们可以更加积极
14:04
much more aggressively积极
280
828133
2100
的干预
14:06
into dangerously危险 dysfunctional功能失调 homes家园,
281
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3224
那些已经变得危险并功能失调的家庭,
14:09
and getting得到 kids孩子 out of them
282
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1843
并把他们的孩子
14:11
before their moms妈妈 pick up butcher屠夫 knives
and threaten威胁 to kill them.
283
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5471
在他们的妈妈拿起屠夫刀并威胁要杀死他们之前解救出来。
14:16
If we're gonna do that,
284
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2020
如果我们要这样做,
14:18
we need a place地点 to put them.
285
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2076
我们需要地方安置他们。
14:20
Even if we do all of those things, some
kids孩子 are going to fall秋季 through通过 the cracks裂缝
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3404
即使我们做到所有这些事,仍然会有一些孩子会被漏掉
14:24
and they're going to end结束 up in that last
chapter章节 before the murder谋杀 story故事 begins开始,
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3596
然后他们在这谋杀的故事最后一章开始之前
14:27
they're going to end结束 up in the juvenile少年
justice正义 system系统.
288
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2033
最终在少年司法系统中结束。
14:29
And even if that happens发生,
289
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3102
即使发生这种情况,
14:32
it's not yet然而 too late晚了.
290
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1904
它还不算太晚。
14:34
There's still time to nudge微调 them,
291
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2794
仍有时间去改变他们的命运,
14:37
if we think about nudging轻推 them
292
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1757
如果我们想帮助他们
14:39
rather than just punishing惩罚 them.
293
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2369
而不是只惩罚他们。
14:41
There are two professors教授 in the Northeast东北 --
one at Yale耶鲁 and one at Maryland马里兰 --
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有两位教授在东北部地区 — — 个在耶鲁大学 — —一个在马里兰州
14:44
they set up a school学校
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他们建立了一所学校
14:46
that is attached to a juvenile少年 prison监狱.
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该学校于一个少年监狱相连。
14:50
And the kids孩子 are in prison监狱, but they go
to school学校 from eight in the morning早上
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孩子们虽然在狱中,但他们早上八点上课
14:53
until直到 four in the afternoon下午.
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下午四点结束。
14:55
Now, it was logistically后勤 difficult.
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逻辑上很难理解。
14:56
They had to recruit teachers教师
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他们需要招聘可以在监狱内教课的教师
14:57
who wanted to teach inside a prison监狱, they had to establish建立 strict严格
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他们建立了严格
15:01
separation分割 between之间 the people who work
at the school学校 and the prison监狱 authorities当局,
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制度把在这所学校工作的人和监狱当局分离开,
15:04
and most dauntingly吓人 of all, they needed需要
to invent发明 a new curriculum课程 because
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最难的是,他们需要设计新的课程表,因为
15:07
you know what?
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你知道?
15:08
People don't come into and out of prison监狱
on a semester学期 basis基础.
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这些人不可能以学期的基础上进出监狱。
15:14
But they did all those things.
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但他们做了所有这些事情。
15:17
Now what do all of these things have in common共同?
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所有这些事情有什么共同点?
15:20
What all of these things have in common共同
is that they cost成本 money.
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这些事情的共同点是他们需要花钱。
15:26
Some of the people in the room房间 might威力 be
old enough足够 to remember记得
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这里的一些年纪够大的人可能还记得
15:29
the guy on the old oil filter过滤 commercial广告.
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曾经在机油滤清器商业广告上那个人。
15:33
He used to say, "Well, you can pay工资 me now
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他常说,"好吧,你现在可以支付我
15:37
or you can pay工资 me later后来."
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或者您可以再付给我钱。“
15:40
What we're doing
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我们正在做什么
15:42
in the death死亡 penalty罚款 system系统
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在死刑制度中
15:44
is we're paying付款 later后来.
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正是我们后付钱。
15:48
But the thing is
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但是事实是
15:49
that for every一切 15,000 dollars美元
that we spend intervening介入
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我们每花 15000 美元越早帮助
15:53
in the lives生活 of economically经济 and
otherwise除此以外 disadvantaged劣势 kids孩子
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在经济和其他方面处于
15:58
in those earlier chapters,
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不利地位的孩子们,
15:59
we save保存 80,000 dollars美元 in crime-related与犯罪有关 costs成本 down the road.
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我们在与犯罪有关的费用中就可以节省 80,000 美元。
16:03
Even if you don't agree同意
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即使您不同意
16:05
that there's a moral道德 imperative势在必行 that we do it,
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我们道德责任去做这些事,
16:09
it just makes品牌 economic经济 sense.
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它仍然有经济意义。
16:14
I want to tell you about the last conversation会话 that
I had with Will.
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我想告诉你们我和威尔最后的谈话。
16:18
It was the day that he was going to be executed执行,
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就是在他被执行死刑的那那天,
16:22
and we were just talking.
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我们只是谈话。
16:26
There was nothing left to do
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没有别的事情可以做了
16:27
in his case案件.
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在他的案子里。
16:29
And we were talking about his life.
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我们谈论了他的一生。
16:31
And he was talking first about his dad,
who he hardly几乎不 knew知道,
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首先,他谈到他的爸爸,一个他几乎不认识的人
16:34
who had died死亡,
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而且已经死了,
16:35
and then about his mom妈妈,
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然后关于他的妈妈,
16:38
who he did know,
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他知道,
16:40
who is still alive.
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还活着。
16:42
And I said to him,
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我对他说,
16:44
"I know the story故事.
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"我知道这个故事。
16:46
I've read the records记录.
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我读过记录。
16:48
I know that she tried试着 to kill you."
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我知道她想杀了你"。
16:51
I said, "But I've always wondered想知道 whether是否 you
really
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我说,"但是我一直在想是否你真的
16:53
actually其实 remember记得 that."
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记得。
16:55
I said, "I don't remember记得 anything
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我说,"我不记得任何件事
16:57
from when I was five years年份 old.
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从我五岁那年。
16:59
Maybe you just remember记得 somebody telling告诉 you."
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也许你只是记得有人告诉你。"
17:02
And he looked看着 at me and he leaned凑近 forward前锋,
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他看着我然后俯身向前,
17:05
and he said, "Professor教授," -- he'd他会 known已知 me for
12 years年份, he still called me Professor教授.
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说,"教授,"— — 他认识了我 12 年,仍然称我教授。
17:08
He said, "Professor教授, I don't mean any
disrespect by this,
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他说,"教授,我没有对你不尊重的意思,
17:11
but when your mama妈妈
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但当你的妈妈
17:13
picks精选 up a butcher屠夫 knife that looks容貌 bigger
than you are,
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拿起一把看上去比你还要大的屠刀,
17:16
and chases追逐 you through通过 the house
screaming尖叫 she's gonna kill you,
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并尖叫着在房间里追杀你,
17:20
and you have to lock yourself你自己 in the
bathroom浴室 and lean against反对 the door and
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你只能把你自己锁在浴室,靠着门
17:24
holler抱怨 for help until直到 the police警察 get
there,"
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直到警察赶到才能得救,"
17:27
he looked看着 at me and he said,
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他看着我,说,
17:30
"that's something you don't forget忘记."
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"这是你永远忘不了的事。"
17:33
I hope希望 there's one thing you all won't惯于 forget忘记:
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我希望你们都不会忘记一件事:
17:36
In between之间 the time you arrived到达 here
this morning早上 and the time we break打破 for lunch午餐,
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从你今天早晨到达这里到午餐时间,
17:39
there are going to be four homicides杀人
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在美国就有四个人
17:42
in the United联合的 States状态.
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1433
被杀。
17:43
We're going to devote奉献 enormous巨大 social社会
resources资源 to punishing惩罚 the people who
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我们投入了大量社会资源惩治这些
17:48
commit承诺 those crimes犯罪, and that's
appropriate适当, because we should punish惩治
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犯下这些罪行的人,这是适当的,因为我们应惩罚
17:50
people who do bad things.
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做坏事的人。
17:52
But three of those crimes犯罪 are
preventable预防的.
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但其中三起犯罪都是可以预防的。
17:56
If we make the picture图片 bigger
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如果我们把眼光放的更远
17:59
and devote奉献 our attention注意 to the
earlier chapters,
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4644
同时关注早期的章节,
18:03
then we're never going to write the
first sentence句子
364
1067816
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然后我们就永远不会撰写出
18:07
that begins开始 the death死亡 penalty罚款 story故事.
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死刑故事开始的第一句。
18:08
Thank you.
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谢谢。
18:10
(Applause掌声)
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(掌声)
Translated by Shang Sinian
Reviewed by Yuguo Zhang

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
David R. Dow - Death penalty lawyer
David R. Dow has defended over 100 death row inmates in 20 years.

Why you should listen

What does it feel like to know exactly the day and time you’re going to die -- because the state has decided for you? As a death penalty attorney in Texas, the state with the highest death penalty rate in the US, David R. Dow asks himself questions like this every day. In the past 20 years he has defended over 100 death row inmates, many of whom have died -- and most of whom were guilty. But according to an interview with Dow, “They should have been sentenced to life in prison instead of death at the hands of the state.” Dow is the Litigation Director at the Texas Defender Service and the Founder and Co-director of the Texas Innocence Network, an organization in which law students provide pro bono legal services to investigate claims of actual innocence brought by Texas prisoners. He writes on contract law, constitutional law and theory, and death penalty law, and has most recently published a book called The Autobiography of an Execution, partly a memoir and partly about the politics of capital punishment. Dow is a professor at the University of Houston Law Center.

More profile about the speaker
David R. Dow | Speaker | TED.com