ABOUT THE SPEAKER
David R. Dow - Death penalty lawyer
David R. Dow has defended over 100 death row inmates in 20 years.

Why you should listen

What does it feel like to know exactly the day and time you’re going to die -- because the state has decided for you? As a death penalty attorney in Texas, the state with the highest death penalty rate in the US, David R. Dow asks himself questions like this every day. In the past 20 years he has defended over 100 death row inmates, many of whom have died -- and most of whom were guilty. But according to an interview with Dow, “They should have been sentenced to life in prison instead of death at the hands of the state.” Dow is the Litigation Director at the Texas Defender Service and the Founder and Co-director of the Texas Innocence Network, an organization in which law students provide pro bono legal services to investigate claims of actual innocence brought by Texas prisoners. He writes on contract law, constitutional law and theory, and death penalty law, and has most recently published a book called The Autobiography of an Execution, partly a memoir and partly about the politics of capital punishment. Dow is a professor at the University of Houston Law Center.

More profile about the speaker
David R. Dow | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxAustin

David R. Dow: Lessons from death row inmates

David R. Dow: 从死刑囚犯中得出的道理

Filmed:
3,920,670 views

在一次谋杀之前会发生什么呢?为了寻找方式去减少死刑判罚案件,David R. Row意识到了有惊讶数目的一部分死刑囚犯都有着相似的经历。在这个演讲中他提出了一个大胆的方案,一个能够第一手制止谋杀的方案。 (在TED 德州奥斯丁拍摄)
- Death penalty lawyer
David R. Dow has defended over 100 death row inmates in 20 years. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:17
Two weeks ago,
0
1567
1893
两周前,
00:19
I was sitting坐在 at the
1
3460
2107
我和我的妻子,卡特亚,
00:21
kitchen厨房 table with my wife妻子 Katya卡佳,
2
5567
3000
坐在餐桌旁,
00:24
and we were talking about what I was gonna talk about today今天.
3
8567
4866
我们两人当时谈论着我今天将要讨论的事情。
00:29
We have an 11-year-old-岁 son儿子; his name名称 is Lincoln林肯. He was sitting坐在 at the same相同 table
4
13433
5027
我们有个11岁大的儿子;叫林肯。他当时也坐在同一张餐桌旁
00:34
doing his math数学 homework家庭作业.
5
18460
2693
做他的数学作业。
00:37
And during a pause暂停 in my conversation会话
6
21153
1417
我和卡特亚的谈话暂停了一下,
00:39
with Katya卡佳, I looked看着 over at Lincoln林肯
7
23754
2513
我看着林肯
00:42
and I was suddenly突然 thunderstruck吓坏的
8
26267
1866
然后突然被我想起来的一位客户的经历所
00:46
by a recollection回忆 of a client客户 of mine.
9
30167
3466
震惊了。
00:49
My client客户 was a guy named命名 Will.
10
33633
2892
我的客户是一个叫威尔的男孩。
00:52
He was from North Texas德州.
11
36525
1918
他来自北德克萨斯。
00:54
He never knew知道 his father父亲 very well, because his father父亲 left
12
38443
5096
他的父亲在他母亲怀着他的时候就离开了他们,所以
00:59
his mom妈妈 while she was pregnant with him.
13
43539
3694
从没见过他的父亲。
01:03
And so, he was destined注定 to be raised上调 by a single mom妈妈,
14
47233
4367
所以,命中注定他成长在一个单亲妈妈的家庭,
01:07
which哪一个 might威力 have been all right
15
51600
1567
也许他可以成长的很好
01:09
except that this particular特定 single mom妈妈
16
53167
2166
只是他的特殊的单身母亲
01:11
was a paranoid偏执 schizophrenic精神分裂症,
17
55333
3321
有偏执型精神分裂症,
01:14
and when Will was five years年份 old she
tried试着 to kill him with a butcher屠夫 knife.
18
58654
4613
更糟糕的是她曾经想用一把屠刀杀死只有5岁的威尔。
01:19
She was
19
63267
1933
她被
01:21
taken采取 away by authorities当局 and placed放置 in a
psychiatric精神病 hospital醫院,
20
65200
4135
警察带走后并被送进了精神病院,
01:25
and so for the next下一个 several一些 years年份 Will
lived生活 with his older旧的 brother哥哥
21
69335
3732
那之后的几年威尔和他的哥哥生活在一起直到
01:28
until直到 he committed提交 suicide自杀 by shooting射击
himself他自己 through通过 the heart.
22
73067
2885
他的哥哥将一颗子弹送进了自己的心脏。
01:31
And after that
23
75952
3081
那之后
01:34
Will bounced反弹 around from one family家庭
member会员 to another另一个,
24
79033
3034
威尔就在亲戚家中轮流居住,
01:37
until直到, by the time he was nine years年份 old,
he was essentially实质上 living活的 on his own拥有.
25
82067
5333
直到,他九岁的时候,他基本上只是自己独自生活了。
01:43
That morning早上 that I was sitting坐在 with
Katya卡佳 and Lincoln林肯, I looked看着 at my son儿子,
26
87400
4388
那天早上我,卡特亚和林肯坐在一起,我看着我的儿子,
01:47
and I realized实现 that when my client客户, Will,
27
91788
4045
我意识到当我的客户,威尔,
01:51
was his age年龄,
28
95833
2067
和我儿子一样大的时候,
01:53
he'd他会 been living活的 by himself他自己 for two years年份.
29
97900
4033
他已经独自生活了两年了。
01:57
Will eventually终于 joined加盟 a gang结伙
30
101933
2580
威尔最后加入了黑手党
02:00
and committed提交
31
104513
1347
并严重触犯了
02:01
a number of very serious严重 crimes犯罪,
32
105860
2940
一系列法律,
02:04
including包含, most seriously认真地 of all,
33
108800
2833
包括,其中最严重,
02:07
a horrible可怕, tragic悲惨 murder谋杀.
34
111633
2296
一场可怕,悲剧性的谋杀。
02:09
And Will was ultimately最终 executed执行
35
113929
5571
威尔最后被判处死刑
02:15
as punishment惩罚 for that crime犯罪.
36
119500
1933
作为犯罪的惩罚。
02:17
But I don't want to
37
121433
3003
但是今天我不打算
02:20
talk today今天
38
124436
1672
谈论
02:22
about the morality道德 of capital首都 punishment惩罚. I certainly当然 think that my client客户
39
126108
4249
关于死刑的道德问题。我坚定的认为
02:26
shouldn't不能 have been executed执行, but what I would like to do today今天 instead代替
40
130357
5010
我的客户不应该被判死刑,但是我今天想从一个
02:31
is talk about the death死亡 penalty罚款
41
135367
2885
以前没有讨论过的角度去
02:34
in a way I've never doneDONE before,
42
138252
2548
谈一谈死刑,
02:36
in a way
43
141008
1092
一个
02:38
that is entirely完全 noncontroversial无争议.
44
142100
2533
完全无可争议的角度。
02:40
I think that's possible可能,
45
144633
2883
我认为这是可能的,
02:43
because there is a corner
46
147516
2717
因为总有一个关于死刑争议
02:46
of the death死亡 penalty罚款 debate辩论 --
47
150233
1881
的角落--
02:48
maybe the most important重要 corner --
48
152114
1786
也许是最重要的角落--
02:49
where everybody每个人 agrees同意,
49
153900
3183
所有人都可以认同,
02:52
where the most ardent热心 death死亡 penalty罚款 supporters支持者
50
157083
3950
其中死刑最忠实的拥护者
02:56
and the most vociferous喧嚷 abolitionists废奴主义者
51
161069
3978
和坚持废除死刑的人
03:00
are on exactly究竟 the same相同 page.
52
165047
2903
都认同的事。
03:03
That's the corner I want to explore探索.
53
167950
3715
那就是我想探索的角落。
03:07
Before I do that, though虽然, I want to spend a couple一对 of minutes分钟 telling告诉 you how a death死亡
54
171665
4087
在这之前,可是,我想几分钟时间向你们说明一下
03:11
penalty罚款 case案件 unfolds展开,
55
175752
2015
死刑案例是如何开展的,
03:13
and then I want to tell you two lessons教训 that I have learned学到了 over the last 20 years年份
56
177767
5438
之后我想再告诉你们过去的20年中
03:19
as a death死亡 penalty罚款 lawyer律师,
57
183205
2362
作为一个死刑律师我学到的两件事,
03:21
from watching观看 well more than a hundred cases unfold展开 in this way.
58
185567
4900
从过去以这样的形式已经开展的上百例案件。
03:26
You can think of a death死亡 penalty罚款 case案件 as
a story故事
59
190467
3833
您可以把死刑案件看做的一个
03:30
that has four chapters.
60
194300
2167
有四个章节的故事。
03:32
The first chapter章节 of every一切 case案件 is exactly究竟 the same相同,
61
196467
3266
每宗个案的第一章是完全相同的,
03:35
and it is tragic悲惨.
62
199733
1886
是个悲剧。
03:37
It begins开始 with the murder谋杀
63
201619
1106
它始于谋杀
03:38
of an innocent无辜 human人的 being存在,
64
202725
2864
无辜的人,
03:41
and it's followed其次 by a trial审讯
65
205589
1644
接下来是审判
03:43
where the murderer凶手 is convicted被定罪 and sent发送 to death死亡 row,
66
207233
2400
法庭上杀人凶手被定罪为死囚,
03:45
and that death死亡 sentence句子 is ultimately最终
67
209633
1901
最终,
03:47
upheld坚持 by the state appellate受理上诉的 court法庭.
68
211534
2133
被州诉讼法院判为死刑。
03:49
The second第二 chapter章节 consists of a
complicated复杂 legal法律 proceeding诉讼 known已知 as
69
213667
4926
第二章由复杂的法律程序组成,称为
03:54
a state habeas人身保护令 corpus文集 appeal上诉.
70
218593
2693
州人身保护诉讼令。
03:57
The third第三 chapter章节 is an even more complicated复杂 legal法律 proceeding诉讼 known已知 as a
71
221286
3481
第三章的法律程序更为复杂,称为
04:00
federal联邦 habeas人身保护令 corpus文集 proceeding诉讼.
72
224767
2166
联邦人身保护令程序。
04:02
And the fourth第四 chapter章节
73
226933
1767
第四章中
04:04
is one where a variety品种 of things can happen发生. The lawyers律师 might威力 file文件 a clemency宽大 petition请愿,
74
228700
4150
各种各样的事情都可能发生。律师们可能会提出申请,
04:08
they might威力 initiate发起 even more complex复杂
litigation诉讼,
75
232850
3134
他们可能会引发更多复杂的诉讼,
04:11
or they might威力 not do anything at all.
76
235984
2349
或者,他们可能什么都不做。
04:14
But that fourth第四 chapter章节 always ends结束
77
238333
1634
但这四章总是以
04:15
with an execution执行.
78
239967
2300
执行死刑结束。
04:18
When I started开始 representing代表 death死亡 row
inmates囚犯 more than 20 years年份 ago,
79
242267
4863
当我 20 多年前开始为死囚牢房的囚犯做代表的时候,
04:23
people on death死亡 row did not have a right
to a lawyer律师 in either the second第二
80
247130
3937
死囚并没有使用律师的权利,在这个故事的第二章
04:26
or the fourth第四 chapter章节 of this story故事.
81
251067
2700
或第四章。
04:29
They were on their own拥有.
82
253767
1513
他们得靠自己。
04:31
In fact事实, it wasn't until直到 the late晚了 1980s that they acquired后天 a
83
255280
3437
事实上,直到20世纪80年代他们才获得在
04:34
right to a lawyer律师 during the third第三 chapter章节
84
258717
2206
这个故事的第三章期间
04:36
of the story故事.
85
260923
1834
使用律师的权利。
04:38
So what all of these death死亡 row inmates囚犯 had to do
86
262757
2676
所以所有这些死囚犯人不得不
04:41
was rely依靠 on volunteer志愿者 lawyers律师
87
265433
3000
依靠志愿律师
04:44
to handle处理 their legal法律 proceedings诉讼.
88
268433
2196
来处理他们的法律诉讼。
04:46
The problem问题 is that there were way more
guys on death死亡 row
89
270629
3088
问题是死囚的数量比起
04:49
than there were lawyers律师 who had both the interest利益 and the expertise专门知识 to work on these cases.
90
273717
5516
对死囚案件有兴趣以及具有相关技能的律师更多。
04:55
And so inevitably必将,
91
279233
1500
所以不可避免的是,
04:56
lawyers律师 drifted漂流 to cases that were
already已经 in chapter章节 four --
92
280733
3700
律师漂流到了已经在第四章的案件 — —
05:00
that makes品牌 sense, of course课程. Those are the
cases that are most urgent紧急;
93
284433
3234
这的确有道理,当然。这些案件都是最迫切的 ;
05:03
those are the guys who are closest最近的 to being存在 executed执行.
94
287667
2666
这些家伙都是最接近于执行死刑的人。
05:06
Some of these lawyers律师 were successful成功; they managed管理 to get new trials试验 for their clients客户.
95
290333
4189
这些律师有的成功的为他们的客户争取到了新的审判。
05:10
Others其他 of them managed管理 to extend延伸
the lives生活 of their clients客户, sometimes有时 by
96
294522
3945
其他的设法延长了他们的客户生命,有时
05:14
years年份, sometimes有时 by months个月.
97
298467
2000
是几年,有时是几个月。
05:16
But the one thing that didn't happen发生
98
300467
2100
但有一件事没有发生,
05:18
was that there was never a serious严重 and
sustained持续 decline下降 in the number of
99
302567
4833
在德克萨斯州,每年处决的人数从没有
05:23
annual全年 executions处决 in Texas德州.
100
307400
2400
真正意义的持续下降。
05:25
In fact事实, as you can see from this graph图形,
from the time that the Texas德州 execution执行
101
309800
3767
实际上,正如您看到的这张图表,从20世纪90年代中期到晚期,
05:29
apparatus仪器 got efficient高效 in the mid-中- to
late-晚了-1990s,
102
313567
3333
德克萨斯州执行机构有了执行能力,
05:32
there've已经有 only been a couple一对 of years年份 where
the number of annual全年 executions处决 dipped
103
316900
4333
只有过了几年每年处决的人数在下降
05:37
below下面 20.
104
321233
2167
到20个案例以下。
05:39
In a typical典型 year in Texas德州,
105
323400
1540
德克萨斯州一年中,
05:40
we're averaging平均 about
106
324940
2252
我们现在平均大约
05:43
two people a month.
107
327192
1672
每个月有两人被执行。
05:44
In some years年份 in Texas德州, we've我们已经 executed执行
close to 40 people, and this number
108
328864
4636
在德克萨斯州的一些年里,我们曾经执行过近 40 人,并且这一数字
05:49
has never significantly显著 declined下降 over
the last 15 years年份.
109
333500
4722
在过去的 15 年中从来没有显著下降过。
05:54
And yet然而, at the same相同 time that we
continue继续 to execute执行
110
338222
3645
然而,同时,我们继续执行
05:57
about the same相同 number of people every一切
year,
111
341867
2100
几乎每年相同数量的人数,
05:59
the number of people who we're sentencing宣判
to death死亡
112
343967
2568
我们正在宣判死刑的人数
06:02
on an annual全年 basis基础
113
346535
1161
以年为单位
06:03
has dropped下降 rather steeply.
114
347696
2484
在急剧下降。
06:06
So we have this paradox悖论,
115
350180
1387
所以我们得出这种自相矛盾的结论,
06:07
which哪一个 is that the number of annual全年
executions处决 has remained保持 high
116
351567
4720
就是每年处决的人数保持很高
06:12
but the number of new death死亡 sentences句子
has gone走了 down.
117
356287
4435
但新的死刑判决的数目下降了。
06:16
Why is that?
118
360722
1278
这是为什么?
06:17
It can't be attributed由于 to a decline下降 in the murder谋杀 rate,
119
362000
2767
它不能归咎于谋杀数量的下降,
06:20
because the murder谋杀 rate has not declined下降
120
364767
1833
因为谋杀数量没有下降
06:22
nearly几乎 so steeply as the red line线 on
that graph图形 has gone走了 down.
121
366600
4267
近那么快,图上的红线已经减少了。
06:26
What has happened发生 instead代替 is
122
370867
2866
取而代之,
06:29
that juries陪审团 have started开始 to sentence句子
more and more people to prison监狱
123
373733
3834
陪审团着手把更多的人判入监狱
06:33
for the rest休息 of their lives生活 without the
possibility可能性 of parole言语,
124
377567
3500
终生监禁他们完全没有释放的机会,
06:36
rather than sending发出 them to the
execution执行 chamber.
125
381067
3316
而不是将它们发送到死刑室。
06:40
Why has that happened发生?
126
384383
2350
为什么?
06:42
it hasn't有没有 happened发生 because of a
dissolution解散 of popular流行 support支持
127
386733
4407
这不是因民意支持取消
06:47
for the death死亡 penalty罚款. Death死亡 penalty罚款 opponents对手 take great solace慰藉 in the fact事实
128
391140
3560
死刑。死刑反对者获得了极大的安慰是因为
06:50
that death死亡 penalty罚款 support支持 in Texas德州 is at
an all-time整天 low.
129
394700
4660
在德克萨斯州的死刑支持率正处于历史低点。
06:55
Do you know what all-time整天 low in Texas德州
means手段?
130
399360
2007
你知道在德克萨斯州创历史新低意味着什么吗?
06:57
It means手段 that it's in the low 60 percent百分.
131
401367
2566
这意味着它是低于60%。
06:59
Now that's really good compared相比 to the
mid 1980s, when it was in
132
403933
3734
与之相比,一个很好的例子是80年代中期,当时
07:03
excess过量 of 80 percent百分,
133
407667
1724
这个数字是超过 80%,
07:05
but we can't explain说明 the decline下降 in
death死亡 sentences句子 and the affinity亲和力 for
134
409391
4409
但我们不能简单的解释死刑判决的减少是因为人们对生命的关注
07:09
life without the possibility可能性 of parole言语
by an erosion侵蚀 of support支持 for the death死亡
135
413800
3867
而把死刑支持者言论减少的可能性排除在外。
07:13
penalty罚款, because people still support支持 the
death死亡 penalty罚款.
136
417667
2466
,因为有人仍支持死刑。
07:16
What's happened发生 to cause原因 this phenomenon现象?
137
420133
3074
发生了什么,导致这种现象呢?
07:19
What's happened发生 is
138
423207
1626
说发生的事是
07:20
that lawyers律师
139
424833
905
这些代表死囚的律师们
07:21
who represent代表 death死亡 row inmates囚犯 have
shifted their focus焦点
140
425738
3695
已经开始将他们的注意力向更早
07:25
to earlier and earlier chapters of the
death死亡 penalty罚款 story故事.
141
429433
4502
死刑故事的章节。
07:29
So 25 years年份 ago, they focused重点 on
chapter章节 four.
142
433935
3265
所以 25 年前,他们关注第四章。
07:33
And they went from chapter章节 four 25 years年份 ago to chapter章节 three
143
437200
3863
25年前,80年代后期,他们从
07:36
in the late晚了 1980s.
144
441063
1704
第四章转移到了第三章。
07:38
And they went from chapter章节 three in the
late晚了 1980s to chapter章节 two in
145
442767
3400
他们从八十年代后期第 3 章中进入到了
07:42
the mid-中-1990s. And beginning开始
in the mid-中- to late-晚了-1990s,
146
446167
3200
上世纪 90 年代中期的了第两章。从90年代中期到后期,
07:45
they began开始 to focus焦点 on chapter章节 one of
the story故事.
147
449367
3190
他们开始专注于故事的第一章。
07:48
Now you might威力 think that this decline下降 in
death死亡 sentences句子 and the increase增加 in the
148
452557
4010
现在,你也许会认为死刑判决的减少和上升的
07:52
number of life sentences句子 is a good thing
or a bad thing.
149
456567
2466
终身监禁刑罚的人数是一件好事或坏事。
07:54
I don't want to have a conversation会话 about that
today今天.
150
459033
2556
我今天不想讨论。
07:57
All that I want to tell you is that the
reason原因 that this has happened发生
151
461589
3158
所有的我想要告诉是发生的理由
08:00
is because death死亡 penalty罚款 lawyers律师 have
understood了解
152
464747
3112
正是因为死刑律师能看明白
08:03
that the earlier you intervene干预 in a
case案件,
153
467859
2774
在你的案例中越早干预,
08:06
the greater更大 the likelihood可能性 that you're
going to save保存 your client's客户 life.
154
470633
4500
你越有希望保护你的客户的生命。
08:11
That's the first thing I've learned学到了.
155
475133
1867
这是我所学到的第一件事。
08:12
Here's这里的 the second第二 thing I learned学到了:
156
477000
1935
我学到了第二件事:
08:14
My client客户 Will
157
478935
1165
我的客户威尔
08:16
was not the exception例外 to the rule规则;
158
480100
3456
并不是个规则的例外;
08:19
he was the rule规则.
159
483556
3077
他就是规则。
08:22
I sometimes有时 say, if you tell me the name名称
of a death死亡 row inmate犯人 --
160
486633
3534
我有时会说,如果你告诉我一个死囚犯人的名字— —
08:26
doesn't matter what state he's in, doesn't matter if I've ever met会见 him before --
161
490167
3048
不管他现在是什么状态也不管我之前是否见过他 — —
08:29
I'll write his biography for you.
162
493215
2618
我可以为你写出他的自传。
08:31
And eight out of 10 times,
163
495833
3200
80%的情况下,
08:34
the details细节 of that biography
164
499033
1634
该传记的细节
08:36
will be more or less accurate准确.
165
500667
2463
或多或少是准确的。
08:39
And the reason原因 for that is that 80 percent百分 of the people on death死亡 row are
166
503130
4003
原因是 80%的死囚
08:43
people who came来了 from the same相同 sort分类 of
dysfunctional功能失调 family家庭 that Will did.
167
507133
3967
都来自同一种功能失调的家庭。
08:47
Eighty八十 percent百分 of the people on death死亡 row
168
511100
1968
80%的死囚
08:48
are people who had exposure曝光
169
513068
2132
都接触过
08:51
to the juvenile少年 justice正义 system系统.
170
515200
2633
少年司法制度系统。
08:53
That's the second第二 lesson
171
517833
2131
这就是我学会的
08:55
that I've learned学到了.
172
519964
1803
第二个教训。
08:57
Now we're right on the cusp风口浪尖 of that corner
173
521767
3400
现在我们就在那个角落的尖点
09:01
where everybody's每个人的 going to agree同意.
174
525167
3146
那里每个人都认同。
09:04
People in this room房间 might威力 disagree不同意
175
528313
2193
在这个房间里的人可能不同意
09:06
about whether是否 Will should have been
executed执行,
176
530506
2113
关于威尔是否应该被执行死刑,
09:08
but I think everybody每个人 would agree同意
177
532619
2514
但我想大家都会同意
09:11
that the best最好 possible可能 version of his story故事
178
535133
3700
他的故事最好的可能版本
09:14
would be a story故事
179
538833
1334
是一个谋杀不曾出现的
09:16
where no murder谋杀 ever occurs发生.
180
540167
4782
故事。
09:20
How do we do that?
181
544949
1984
我们如何做哪?
09:22
When our son儿子 Lincoln林肯 was working加工 on that
math数学 problem问题
182
546933
4030
两周前,当我们的儿子林肯正在研究这一数学问题
09:26
two weeks ago, it was a big, gnarly粗糙 problem问题.
183
550963
3042
的时候,是一个很麻烦的问题。
09:29
And he was learning学习 how, when you have a big old gnarly粗糙 problem问题,
184
554005
3483
他学习如何(解决问题),当你有一个麻烦的问题,
09:33
sometimes有时 the solution is to slice it
into smaller problems问题.
185
557488
3912
有时解决方案是把它分成较小的问题。
09:37
That's what we do for most problems问题 -- in
math数学 and physics物理, even in social社会 policy政策 --
186
561400
3567
这是我们做大多数问题--数学和物理,即使社会政策-
09:40
we slice them into smaller, more
manageable管理 problems问题.
187
564967
3766
我们把它们分割为更小、 更易于管理的问题。
09:44
But every一切 once一旦 in a while,
188
568733
1735
但每隔一段时间,
09:46
as Dwight德怀特 Eisenhower艾森豪威尔 said,
189
570468
2032
正如德怀特 · 艾森豪威尔说,
09:48
the way you solve解决 a problem问题
190
572500
1520
解决问题的方法
09:49
is to make it bigger.
191
574020
2080
是要使它变得更大。
09:52
The way we solve解决 this problem问题
192
576100
3933
我们解决这个问题的方法
09:55
is to make the issue问题 of the death死亡
penalty罚款 bigger.
193
580033
3856
是要使死刑的问题更大。
09:59
We have to say, all right.
194
583889
2244
我们不得不说,好吧。
10:02
We have these four chapters
195
586133
2261
我们有这四章
10:04
of a death死亡 penalty罚款 story故事,
196
588394
2839
死刑的故事,
10:07
but what happens发生 before
197
591233
1767
但是故事开始之前
10:08
that story故事 begins开始?
198
593000
2127
会发生什么?
10:11
How can we intervene干预 in the life of a murderer凶手
199
595127
4806
我们如何可以凶手犯罪之前干预
10:15
before he's a murderer凶手?
200
599933
2667
他的生活?
10:18
What options选项 do we have
201
602600
2349
我们有哪些选择
10:20
to nudge微调 that person
202
604949
1384
改变谋杀犯的
10:22
off of the path路径
203
606333
1234
人生轨迹
10:23
that is going to lead to a result结果 that
everybody每个人 --
204
607567
4163
这会导致一个结果,所有人— —
10:27
death死亡 penalty罚款 supporters支持者 and death死亡 penalty罚款
opponents对手 --
205
611730
2856
死刑的支持者和反对者 — —
10:30
still think
206
614586
747
仍然认为
10:31
is a bad result结果:
207
615333
2434
是一个糟糕的结果:
10:33
the murder谋杀 of an innocent无辜 human人的 being存在?
208
617767
2566
一个无辜的人被杀害吗?
10:38
You know, sometimes有时 people say
209
622248
2685
你知道,有时候人们会说
10:40
that something
210
624933
1240
有一些事情
10:42
isn't rocket火箭 science科学.
211
626173
2127
不是火箭科学。
10:44
And by that, what they mean is rocket火箭
science科学 is really complicated复杂
212
628300
3333
是,他们的意思是火箭科学确实很复杂
10:47
and this problem问题 that we're talking
about now is really simple简单.
213
631633
3502
而这个问题,我们正在谈论其实是真的非常简单。
10:51
Well that's rocket火箭 science科学;
214
635135
1432
嗯,这是火箭科学 ;
10:52
that's the mathematical数学的 expression表达
215
636567
1800
这就是数学方程式
10:54
for the thrust推力 created创建 by a rocket火箭.
216
638367
3866
为一枚火箭创建的推力。
10:58
What we're talking about today今天
217
642233
2367
我们今天讨论的
11:00
is just as complicated复杂.
218
644600
2401
事很复杂。
11:02
What we're talking about today今天 is also
219
647001
2624
我们今天在讨论的也是
11:05
rocket火箭 science科学.
220
649625
2647
火箭科学。
11:08
My client客户 Will
221
652272
1811
我的客户威尔
11:09
and 80 percent百分 of the people on
death死亡 row
222
654083
2670
和 80%的死囚
11:12
had five chapters in their lives生活
223
656753
3447
在他们的生活中有五个章节
11:16
that came来了 before
224
660200
1533
这都在
11:17
the four chapters of the death死亡 penalty罚款
story故事.
225
661733
1800
死刑故事的四个章节之前。
11:19
I think of these five chapters as points
of intervention介入,
226
663533
4767
我认为这些五个章节的干预点,
11:24
places地方 in their lives生活 when our society社会
227
668300
2867
在他们的生活中当我们的社会
11:27
could've可能已经 intervened干预 in their lives生活 and
nudged碰一碰 them off of the path路径 that they were on
228
671167
4933
可以介入他们的生活并改变他们正在走向一个结局,那个我们所有人
11:32
that created创建 a consequence后果 that we all -- death死亡 penalty罚款 supporters支持者 or death死亡
229
676100
4268
— — 死刑的支持者或死刑
11:36
penalty罚款 opponents对手 --
230
680368
1718
的反对者 — —
11:37
say was a bad result结果.
231
682086
2020
认为是很差的结局。
11:40
Now, during each of these five
chapters:
232
684106
2627
现在,这五个章节的每个章节:
11:42
when his mother母亲 was pregnant with him;
233
686733
1634
当他的母亲怀孕;
11:44
in his early childhood童年 years年份;
234
688367
2266
在他早期的童年 ;
11:46
when he was in elementary初级 school学校;
235
690633
1867
当他上小学 ;
11:48
when he was in middle中间 school学校 and then high
school学校;
236
692500
2167
当他上中学和高中 ;
11:50
and when he was in the juvenile少年 justice正义
system系统 -- during each of those five chapters,
237
694667
3500
当他在少年司法系统 — — 期间的每个章节,
11:54
there were a wide variety品种 of things that society社会 could have doneDONE.
238
698167
3215
有各种各样社会能做的事情。
11:57
In fact事实, if we just imagine想像
239
701382
2118
事实上,如果我们只是想象
11:59
that there are five different不同 modes模式 of
intervention介入, the way that society社会 could intervene干预
240
703500
5100
有五种不同模式的干预,社会可以介入的方式
12:04
in each of those five chapters,
241
708600
1884
五个章节的每一章,
12:06
and we could mix混合 and match比赛 them any way
we want,
242
710484
2216
我们可以混合匹配成任何我们想要的方式,
12:08
there are 3,000 -- more than 3,000 -- possible可能 strategies策略
243
712700
4170
有 3,000 — — 超过 3,000 — — 可能行性措施
12:12
that we could embrace拥抱 in order订购 to nudge微调
kids孩子 like Will
244
716870
3863
我们可以帮助,像威尔一样的孩子
12:16
off of the path路径 that they're on.
245
720733
2834
改变他们的人生之路。
12:19
So I'm not standing常设 here today今天
246
723567
1755
所以我今天不是站在这里
12:21
with the solution.
247
725322
2078
提出解决方案。
12:23
But the fact事实 that we still have a lot to learn学习,
248
727400
4533
但事实是我们仍有很多要学,
12:27
that doesn't mean that we don't know a lot already已经.
249
731933
3373
这并不意味着我们一无所知。
12:31
We know from experience经验 in other states状态
250
735306
2894
我们从其他州的经验知道
12:34
that there are a wide variety品种 of modes模式
of intervention介入
251
738200
3667
有多种方式干预
12:37
that we could be using运用 in Texas德州, and in
every一切 other state that isn't using运用 them,
252
741867
3888
那我们可以用在得克萨斯州,并在每个其他州都不使用它们,
12:41
in order订购 to prevent避免 a consequence后果 that we all agree同意 is bad.
253
745755
4993
为了防止我们都共同认为是不好的后果。
12:46
I'll just mention提到 a few少数.
254
750748
2623
我得提一下几个。
12:49
I won't惯于 talk today今天 about reforming改革 the
legal法律 system系统.
255
753371
3925
我今天不会讨论关于司法制度改革。
12:53
That's probably大概 a topic话题 that is best最好
reserved保留的 for a room房间 full充分 of lawyers律师 and judges法官.
256
757296
4771
这可能是一个最好的预留给满屋子的律师和法官的话题。
12:57
Instead代替, let me talk about a couple一对 of
modes模式 of intervention介入
257
762067
3820
相反,让我谈一谈几个的干预模式
13:01
that we can all help accomplish完成,
258
765887
2368
我们可以所有帮助完成,
13:04
because they are modes模式 of intervention介入
that will come about
259
768255
2485
因为它们是将会出现的干预方式
13:06
when legislators立法者 and policymakers政策制定者, when taxpayers纳税人 and citizens公民,
260
770740
3960
当立法会议员和政策制定者,当纳税人和公民,
13:10
agree同意 that that's what we ought应该 to be
doing
261
774700
2233
一致认为这是我们应该做什么
13:12
and that's how we ought应该 to be spending开支 our money.
262
776933
2334
而这是我们应该如何花自己的钱。
13:15
We could be providing提供 early childhood童年 care关心
263
779267
2386
我们可以提供早期儿童护理
13:17
for economically经济 disadvantaged劣势 and
otherwise除此以外 troubled苦恼 kids孩子,
264
781653
5814
帮助经济处于弱势和陷入其他困境的孩子们,
13:23
and we could be doing it for free自由.
265
787467
2383
并且是免费的。
13:25
And we could be nudging轻推 kids孩子 like Will
off of the path路径 that we're on.
266
789850
4110
这样我们就可以改变像威尔这样的孩子们的命运。
13:29
There are other states状态 that do that, but we don't.
267
793960
3840
已经其他州在这样做了,但我们还没有。
13:33
We could be providing提供 special特别 schools学校, at
both the high school学校 level水平
268
797800
4101
我们可以提供专门的学校,从高中
13:37
and the middle中间 school学校 level水平, but even in K-K-5,
269
801901
3367
到初中,甚至是小学5年级的孩子,
13:41
that target目标 economically经济 and otherwise除此以外
disadvantaged劣势 kids孩子, and particularly尤其 kids孩子
270
805268
4389
目标是帮助经济和其他方面处于不利地位的孩子,特别是
13:45
who have had exposure曝光
271
809657
1176
已经触犯过
13:46
to the juvenile少年 justice正义 system系统.
272
810833
2100
少年司法系统的孩子。
13:48
There are a handful少数 of states状态 that do that;
273
812933
1867
这正是几个州都在做的事 ;
13:50
Texas德州 doesn't.
274
814800
2682
德克萨斯州并没有。
13:53
There's one other thing we can be doing --
275
817482
1818
有一件事,是我们可以做的 — —
13:55
well, there are a bunch of other things that we could be doing -- there's one other thing that we could be
276
819300
2338
也许,有很多其他我们应该做的事情 — — 但是有一件事我们可以做的,
13:57
doing that I'm going to mention提到, and this is
gonna be the only controversial争论的 thing
277
821638
2562
我也不得不在这里提一下,这也是今天唯一有
14:00
that I say today今天.
278
824200
2633
争议的事。
14:02
We could be intervening介入
279
826833
1300
我们可以更加积极
14:04
much more aggressively积极
280
828133
2100
的干预
14:06
into dangerously危险 dysfunctional功能失调 homes家园,
281
830233
3224
那些已经变得危险并功能失调的家庭,
14:09
and getting得到 kids孩子 out of them
282
833457
1843
并把他们的孩子
14:11
before their moms妈妈 pick up butcher屠夫 knives
and threaten威胁 to kill them.
283
835300
5471
在他们的妈妈拿起屠夫刀并威胁要杀死他们之前解救出来。
14:16
If we're gonna do that,
284
840771
2020
如果我们要这样做,
14:18
we need a place地点 to put them.
285
842791
2076
我们需要地方安置他们。
14:20
Even if we do all of those things, some
kids孩子 are going to fall秋季 through通过 the cracks裂缝
286
844867
3404
即使我们做到所有这些事,仍然会有一些孩子会被漏掉
14:24
and they're going to end结束 up in that last
chapter章节 before the murder谋杀 story故事 begins开始,
287
848271
3596
然后他们在这谋杀的故事最后一章开始之前
14:27
they're going to end结束 up in the juvenile少年
justice正义 system系统.
288
851867
2033
最终在少年司法系统中结束。
14:29
And even if that happens发生,
289
853900
3102
即使发生这种情况,
14:32
it's not yet然而 too late晚了.
290
857002
1904
它还不算太晚。
14:34
There's still time to nudge微调 them,
291
858906
2794
仍有时间去改变他们的命运,
14:37
if we think about nudging轻推 them
292
861700
1757
如果我们想帮助他们
14:39
rather than just punishing惩罚 them.
293
863457
2369
而不是只惩罚他们。
14:41
There are two professors教授 in the Northeast东北 --
one at Yale耶鲁 and one at Maryland马里兰 --
294
865826
2740
有两位教授在东北部地区 — — 个在耶鲁大学 — —一个在马里兰州
14:44
they set up a school学校
295
868566
1767
他们建立了一所学校
14:46
that is attached to a juvenile少年 prison监狱.
296
870333
3900
该学校于一个少年监狱相连。
14:50
And the kids孩子 are in prison监狱, but they go
to school学校 from eight in the morning早上
297
874233
3249
孩子们虽然在狱中,但他们早上八点上课
14:53
until直到 four in the afternoon下午.
298
877482
1685
下午四点结束。
14:55
Now, it was logistically后勤 difficult.
299
879167
1636
逻辑上很难理解。
14:56
They had to recruit teachers教师
300
880803
1164
他们需要招聘可以在监狱内教课的教师
14:57
who wanted to teach inside a prison监狱, they had to establish建立 strict严格
301
881967
3366
他们建立了严格
15:01
separation分割 between之间 the people who work
at the school学校 and the prison监狱 authorities当局,
302
885333
3202
制度把在这所学校工作的人和监狱当局分离开,
15:04
and most dauntingly吓人 of all, they needed需要
to invent发明 a new curriculum课程 because
303
888535
3432
最难的是,他们需要设计新的课程表,因为
15:07
you know what?
304
891967
1000
你知道?
15:08
People don't come into and out of prison监狱
on a semester学期 basis基础.
305
892967
5500
这些人不可能以学期的基础上进出监狱。
15:14
But they did all those things.
306
898467
3117
但他们做了所有这些事情。
15:17
Now what do all of these things have in common共同?
307
901584
2749
所有这些事情有什么共同点?
15:20
What all of these things have in common共同
is that they cost成本 money.
308
904333
6367
这些事情的共同点是他们需要花钱。
15:26
Some of the people in the room房间 might威力 be
old enough足够 to remember记得
309
910700
3028
这里的一些年纪够大的人可能还记得
15:29
the guy on the old oil filter过滤 commercial广告.
310
913728
3762
曾经在机油滤清器商业广告上那个人。
15:33
He used to say, "Well, you can pay工资 me now
311
917490
3810
他常说,"好吧,你现在可以支付我
15:37
or you can pay工资 me later后来."
312
921300
3067
或者您可以再付给我钱。“
15:40
What we're doing
313
924367
2133
我们正在做什么
15:42
in the death死亡 penalty罚款 system系统
314
926500
2020
在死刑制度中
15:44
is we're paying付款 later后来.
315
928520
3599
正是我们后付钱。
15:48
But the thing is
316
932119
1848
但是事实是
15:49
that for every一切 15,000 dollars美元
that we spend intervening介入
317
933967
3866
我们每花 15000 美元越早帮助
15:53
in the lives生活 of economically经济 and
otherwise除此以外 disadvantaged劣势 kids孩子
318
937833
4367
在经济和其他方面处于
15:58
in those earlier chapters,
319
942200
1320
不利地位的孩子们,
15:59
we save保存 80,000 dollars美元 in crime-related与犯罪有关 costs成本 down the road.
320
943520
4413
我们在与犯罪有关的费用中就可以节省 80,000 美元。
16:03
Even if you don't agree同意
321
947933
1763
即使您不同意
16:05
that there's a moral道德 imperative势在必行 that we do it,
322
949696
2396
我们道德责任去做这些事,
16:09
it just makes品牌 economic经济 sense.
323
953435
2577
它仍然有经济意义。
16:14
I want to tell you about the last conversation会话 that
I had with Will.
324
958589
4023
我想告诉你们我和威尔最后的谈话。
16:18
It was the day that he was going to be executed执行,
325
962612
4088
就是在他被执行死刑的那那天,
16:22
and we were just talking.
326
966700
4312
我们只是谈话。
16:26
There was nothing left to do
327
971012
1055
没有别的事情可以做了
16:27
in his case案件.
328
972067
1615
在他的案子里。
16:29
And we were talking about his life.
329
973682
2351
我们谈论了他的一生。
16:31
And he was talking first about his dad,
who he hardly几乎不 knew知道,
330
976033
2867
首先,他谈到他的爸爸,一个他几乎不认识的人
16:34
who had died死亡,
331
978900
833
而且已经死了,
16:35
and then about his mom妈妈,
332
979733
2634
然后关于他的妈妈,
16:38
who he did know,
333
982367
1764
他知道,
16:40
who is still alive.
334
984131
2169
还活着。
16:42
And I said to him,
335
986300
2700
我对他说,
16:44
"I know the story故事.
336
989000
2051
"我知道这个故事。
16:46
I've read the records记录.
337
991051
1816
我读过记录。
16:48
I know that she tried试着 to kill you."
338
992867
2642
我知道她想杀了你"。
16:51
I said, "But I've always wondered想知道 whether是否 you
really
339
995509
2438
我说,"但是我一直在想是否你真的
16:53
actually其实 remember记得 that."
340
997947
2120
记得。
16:55
I said, "I don't remember记得 anything
341
1000067
1503
我说,"我不记得任何件事
16:57
from when I was five years年份 old.
342
1001570
2159
从我五岁那年。
16:59
Maybe you just remember记得 somebody telling告诉 you."
343
1003729
2938
也许你只是记得有人告诉你。"
17:02
And he looked看着 at me and he leaned凑近 forward前锋,
344
1006667
2500
他看着我然后俯身向前,
17:05
and he said, "Professor教授," -- he'd他会 known已知 me for
12 years年份, he still called me Professor教授.
345
1009167
3600
说,"教授,"— — 他认识了我 12 年,仍然称我教授。
17:08
He said, "Professor教授, I don't mean any
disrespect by this,
346
1012767
3315
他说,"教授,我没有对你不尊重的意思,
17:11
but when your mama妈妈
347
1016082
1651
但当你的妈妈
17:13
picks精选 up a butcher屠夫 knife that looks容貌 bigger
than you are,
348
1017733
3100
拿起一把看上去比你还要大的屠刀,
17:16
and chases追逐 you through通过 the house
screaming尖叫 she's gonna kill you,
349
1020833
3800
并尖叫着在房间里追杀你,
17:20
and you have to lock yourself你自己 in the
bathroom浴室 and lean against反对 the door and
350
1024633
3825
你只能把你自己锁在浴室,靠着门
17:24
holler抱怨 for help until直到 the police警察 get
there,"
351
1028458
2763
直到警察赶到才能得救,"
17:27
he looked看着 at me and he said,
352
1031221
3079
他看着我,说,
17:30
"that's something you don't forget忘记."
353
1034300
3500
"这是你永远忘不了的事。"
17:33
I hope希望 there's one thing you all won't惯于 forget忘记:
354
1037800
2500
我希望你们都不会忘记一件事:
17:36
In between之间 the time you arrived到达 here
this morning早上 and the time we break打破 for lunch午餐,
355
1040300
2856
从你今天早晨到达这里到午餐时间,
17:39
there are going to be four homicides杀人
356
1043156
3411
在美国就有四个人
17:42
in the United联合的 States状态.
357
1046567
1433
被杀。
17:43
We're going to devote奉献 enormous巨大 social社会
resources资源 to punishing惩罚 the people who
358
1048000
4167
我们投入了大量社会资源惩治这些
17:48
commit承诺 those crimes犯罪, and that's
appropriate适当, because we should punish惩治
359
1052167
2300
犯下这些罪行的人,这是适当的,因为我们应惩罚
17:50
people who do bad things.
360
1054467
2066
做坏事的人。
17:52
But three of those crimes犯罪 are
preventable预防的.
361
1056533
3567
但其中三起犯罪都是可以预防的。
17:56
If we make the picture图片 bigger
362
1060100
2910
如果我们把眼光放的更远
17:59
and devote奉献 our attention注意 to the
earlier chapters,
363
1063172
4644
同时关注早期的章节,
18:03
then we're never going to write the
first sentence句子
364
1067816
3384
然后我们就永远不会撰写出
18:07
that begins开始 the death死亡 penalty罚款 story故事.
365
1071200
1794
死刑故事开始的第一句。
18:08
Thank you.
366
1072994
1706
谢谢。
18:10
(Applause掌声)
367
1074700
1331
(掌声)
Translated by Shang Sinian
Reviewed by Yuguo Zhang

▲Back to top

ABOUT THE SPEAKER
David R. Dow - Death penalty lawyer
David R. Dow has defended over 100 death row inmates in 20 years.

Why you should listen

What does it feel like to know exactly the day and time you’re going to die -- because the state has decided for you? As a death penalty attorney in Texas, the state with the highest death penalty rate in the US, David R. Dow asks himself questions like this every day. In the past 20 years he has defended over 100 death row inmates, many of whom have died -- and most of whom were guilty. But according to an interview with Dow, “They should have been sentenced to life in prison instead of death at the hands of the state.” Dow is the Litigation Director at the Texas Defender Service and the Founder and Co-director of the Texas Innocence Network, an organization in which law students provide pro bono legal services to investigate claims of actual innocence brought by Texas prisoners. He writes on contract law, constitutional law and theory, and death penalty law, and has most recently published a book called The Autobiography of an Execution, partly a memoir and partly about the politics of capital punishment. Dow is a professor at the University of Houston Law Center.

More profile about the speaker
David R. Dow | Speaker | TED.com

Data provided by TED.

This site was created in May 2015 and the last update was on January 12, 2020. It will no longer be updated.

We are currently creating a new site called "eng.lish.video" and would be grateful if you could access it.

If you have any questions or suggestions, please feel free to write comments in your language on the contact form.

Privacy Policy

Developer's Blog

Buy Me A Coffee