ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Charles Limb - Researcher
Charles Limb is a doctor and a musician who researches the way musical creativity works in the brain.

Why you should listen

Charles Limb is the Francis A. Sooy, MD Professor and Chief of Otology/Neurotology and Skull Base Surgery at the University of California, San Francisco, and he's a Faculty Member at the Peabody Conservatory of Music. He combines his two passions to study the way the brain creates and perceives music. He's a hearing specialist and surgeon at Johns Hopkins who performs cochlear implantations on patients who have lost their hearing. And he plays sax, piano and bass.

In search of a better understanding of how the mind perceives complex auditory stimuli such as music, he's been working with Allen Braun to look at the brains of improvising musicians and study what parts of the brain are involved in the kind of deep creativity that happens when a musician is really in the groove.

Read our Q&A about hip-hop studies with Charles Limb on the TED Blog >>

Plus our quick catchup Q&A at TEDMED 2011 -- including his top 5 songs of all time >>

Read the 2014 paper "Neural Substrates of Interactive Musical Improvisation: An fMRI Study of ‘Trading Fours’ in Jazz" >>

More profile about the speaker
Charles Limb | Speaker | TED.com
TEDMED 2011

Charles Limb: Building the musical muscle

Charles Limb:构建音乐感官

Filmed:
718,820 views

Charles Limb实施人工耳蜗植入手术。这种手术被用来治疗失聪,能帮助失聪患者恢复听力。但同时作为一个音乐家,Limb意识到人工耳蜗植入手术的缺失:手术还不能让患者完全欣赏音乐。(这里有一个惊心动魄的例子。)在TEDMED,Limb展示最前沿的手术状况,并指出了前进方向。
- Researcher
Charles Limb is a doctor and a musician who researches the way musical creativity works in the brain. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:15
Now when we think of our senses感官,
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当我们想到我们的感官时,
00:20
we don't usually平时 think of the reasons原因
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我们一般不会从生物学的角度来考虑
00:22
why they probably大概 evolved进化, from a biological生物 perspective透视.
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为什么我们会进化出感官。
00:24
We don't really think of the evolutionary发展的 need
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我们并不会想到,因为进化需求,
00:27
to be protected保护 by our senses感官,
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我们需要得到感官的保护。
00:29
but that's probably大概 why our senses感官 really evolved进化 --
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但那也许才是我们的感官进化的真正原因——
00:31
to keep us safe安全, to allow允许 us to live生活.
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保护我们的安全,让我们得以存活。
00:34
Really when we think of our senses感官,
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当我们想到我们的感官时,
00:36
or when we think of the loss失利 of the sense,
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或想到失去感官时,
00:38
we really think about something more like this:
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我们更多想到的是:
00:40
the ability能力 to touch触摸 something luxurious豪华, to taste味道 something delicious美味的,
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触摸奢华物品的能力,品尝美味食物的能力,
00:43
to smell something fragrant,
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嗅到芬芳气息的能力,
00:45
to see something beautiful美丽.
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看见美丽事物的能力。
00:47
This is what we want out of our senses感官.
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这些正是我们希望通过感官得到的东西。
00:49
We want beauty美女; we don't just want function功能.
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我们追求美;我们不只是追求实用。
00:52
And when it comes to sensory感觉的 restoration恢复,
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当我们帮患者恢复感官时,
00:54
we're still very far away from being存在 able能够 to provide提供 beauty美女.
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我们离帮助他们恢复赏美能力还差得远。
00:57
And that's what I'd like to talk to you a little bit about today今天.
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这就是我今天想要和大家讲的。
01:00
Likewise同样 for hearing听力.
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听力亦如此。
01:02
When we think about why we hear,
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当我们想到我们为什么要听时,
01:04
we don't often经常 think about the ability能力 to hear an alarm报警 or a siren警笛,
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我们一般不会想到能听见警报或者警笛,
01:07
although虽然 clearly明确地 that's an important重要 thing.
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虽然毫无疑问这也是很重要的。
01:09
Really what we want to hear is music音乐.
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但我们真正想要听的是音乐。
01:12
(Music音乐)
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(音乐)
01:27
So many许多 of you know that that's Beethoven's贝多芬 Seventh第七 Symphony交响乐.
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在座的许多都知道这是贝多芬的第七交响曲。
01:29
Many许多 of you know that he was deaf, or near profoundly深深 deaf,
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在座的许多都知道当他谱写这首曲子时,
01:32
when he wrote that.
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他已失聪,或近乎完全失聪。
01:34
Now I'd like to impress upon you
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我想向诸位强调,
01:36
how unusual异常 it is that we can hear music音乐.
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我们能够听到音乐, 是多么的不寻常。
01:39
Music音乐 is just one of the strangest奇怪 things that there is.
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音乐真是所有事物中最奇特的事物之一。
01:42
It's acoustic vibrations振动 in the air空气,
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它是空气中的声波震动,
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little waves波浪 of energy能源 in the air空气 that tickle痒痒 our eardrum鼓膜.
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空气中的微小的能量波敲击我们的耳膜。
01:48
Somehow不知何故 in tickling发痒 our eardrum鼓膜
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在声波敲击我们的耳膜时,
01:50
that transmits发送 energy能源 down our hearing听力 bones骨头,
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能量被传送入我们的听骨,
01:52
which哪一个 get converted转换 to a fluid流体 impulse冲动 inside the cochlea耳蜗
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在耳蜗里被转化为流体性冲力,
01:55
and then somehow不知何故 converted转换 into an electrical电动 signal信号 in our auditory听觉 nerves神经
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然后在我们的听觉神经中被转变成电信号,
01:58
that somehow不知何故 wind up in our brains大脑
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最后传入我们的脑中,
02:01
as a perception知觉 of a song歌曲 or a beautiful美丽 piece of music音乐.
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被大脑接收为一首歌或者一首美丽的乐曲。
02:04
That process处理 is entirely完全 abstract抽象 and very, very unusual异常.
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这个过程是完全抽象的,而且非常、非常得不寻常。
02:07
And we could discuss讨论 that topic话题 alone单独 for days
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我们光讨论这个话题就可以讨论上好多天,
02:10
to really try to figure数字 out, how is it that we hear something that's emotional情绪化
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来试着弄清楚,我们从最开始的空气中的震动,
02:14
from something that starts启动 out as a vibration振动 in the air空气?
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到最后听到充满感情的音乐,到底是怎么一回事。
02:17
Turns out that if you have hearing听力 loss失利,
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事实上如果你失去了听力,
02:19
most people that lose失去 their hearing听力
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大多数人失去听力是
02:21
lose失去 it at what's called the cochlea耳蜗, the inner ear.
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因为失去了耳蜗,就是内耳。
02:24
And it's at the hair头发 cell细胞 level水平 that they do this.
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这种失聪发生在毛细胞水平。
02:27
Now if you had to pick a sense to lose失去,
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如果你不得不失去一项感官的话,
02:29
I have to be very honest诚实 with you
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我必须实话告诉你,
02:31
and say, we're better at restoring恢复 hearing听力
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我们恢复听力的能力
02:33
than we are at restoring恢复 any sense that there is.
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比我们恢复其他感官的能力都要好。
02:35
In fact事实, nothing even actually其实 comes close
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事实上,我们恢复其他感官的能力
02:37
to our ability能力 to restore恢复 hearing听力.
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跟我们恢复听力的能力根本没法比。
02:39
And as a physician医师 and a surgeon外科医生, I can confidently信心十足地 tell my patients耐心
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作为一位内外科医生,我可以很自信地告诉我的病人,
02:42
that if you had to pick a sense to lose失去,
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如果你不得不失去一项感官的话,
02:44
we are the furthest最远 along沿 medically医疗 and surgically手术 with hearing听力.
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从医学和手术角度上讲,我们更容易帮助你恢复听力。
02:48
As a musician音乐家, I can tell you
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作为一个音乐家,我可以告诉你,
02:50
that if I had to have a cochlear人工耳蜗 implant注入,
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如果我不得不做耳蜗植入的话,
02:52
I'd be heartbroken肠断. I'd just be plainly明白地 heartbroken肠断,
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我会伤心欲绝的。我真的会伤心欲绝,
02:54
because I know that music音乐 would never sound声音 the same相同 to me.
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因为我知道音乐听起来决不会和以前一样了。
02:58
Now this is a video视频 that I'm going to show显示 you
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现在我想展示一段录像。
03:01
of a girl女孩 who's谁是 born天生 deaf.
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这段录像是关于一个失聪的女孩的。
03:03
She's in a very supportive支持 environment环境.
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她周围的环境给予了她很大的支持。
03:05
Her mother's母亲 doing everything she can.
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她的妈妈做了一切她能做的事来支持她。
03:07
Okay, play that video视频 please.
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好,请播放这段录像。
03:09
(Video视频) Mother母亲: That's an owl猫头鹰.
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(录像)母亲:这是个猫头鹰。
03:11
Owl猫头鹰, yeah.
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猫头鹰,对!
03:18
Owl猫头鹰. Owl猫头鹰.
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猫头鹰。猫头鹰。
03:21
Yeah.
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对!
03:28
Baby宝宝. Baby宝宝.
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宝宝。宝宝。
03:31
You want it?
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你想要宝宝么?
03:34
(Kiss)
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(亲吻)
03:37
Charles查尔斯 Limb: Now despite尽管 everything going for this child儿童
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Charles Limb: 尽管这个孩子得到了许多帮助,
03:39
in terms条款 of family家庭 support支持
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有家庭支持,
03:41
and simple简单 infused输注 learning学习,
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和简单的灌输式学习,
03:43
there is a limitation局限性 to what a child儿童 who's谁是 deaf, an infant婴儿 who was born天生 deaf,
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但一个失聪的孩子,一个生来就失聪的孩子,
03:46
has in this world世界
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在这个世界上能得到的东西还是有限的,
03:48
in terms条款 of social社会, educational教育性, vocational专业 opportunities机会.
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不管是社交方面、教育方面,还是职业方面。
03:51
I'm not saying that they can't live生活 a beautiful美丽, wonderful精彩 life.
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我并不是说他们就不会有幸福美好的生活,
03:54
I'm saying that they're going to face面对 obstacles障碍
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我只是说,他们要面对许多大多数听力正常的人
03:56
that most people who have normal正常 hearing听力 will not have to face面对.
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不会遇到的困难。
03:59
Now hearing听力 loss失利 and the treatment治疗 for hearing听力 loss失利
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失聪和治疗失聪
04:01
has really evolved进化 in the past过去 200 years年份.
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在过去的200年有了很大的发展。
04:03
I mean literally按照字面,
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过去人们会把耳朵形的东西插进你的耳朵里,
04:05
they used to do things like stick ear-shaped耳形 objects对象 onto your ears耳朵
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把漏斗插进你的耳朵里,
04:08
and stick funnels漏斗 in.
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是真的把这些东西插进耳朵里。
04:10
And that was the best最好 you could do for hearing听力 loss失利.
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那就是当时我们能做的最好的失聪治疗了。
04:12
Back then you couldn't不能 even look at the eardrum鼓膜.
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那时我们甚至不会看耳鼓。
04:14
So it's not too surprising奇怪
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因此当时没有好的失聪治疗,
04:16
that there were no good treatments治疗 for hearing听力 loss失利.
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这一点也不吃惊。
04:18
And now today今天 we have the modern现代 multi-channel多通道 cochlear人工耳蜗 implant注入,
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现在我们有现代的多通道人工耳蜗植入,
04:20
which哪一个 is an outpatient门诊病人 procedure程序.
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这是个门诊治疗。
04:22
It's surgically手术 placed放置 inside the inner ear.
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人工耳蜗通过手术,被放置入内耳。
04:24
It takes about an hour小时 and a half to two hours小时, depending根据 on where it's doneDONE,
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在全身麻醉下,根据手术地点,
04:26
under general一般 anesthesia麻醉.
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整个手术需要一个半到两个小时。
04:28
And in the end结束, you achieve实现 something like this
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手术最后就是这个效果,
04:30
where an electrode电极 array排列 is inserted插入 inside the cochlea耳蜗.
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一个电极阵列被放入在耳蜗内部。
04:33
Now actually其实, this is quite相当 crude原油
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事实上,这个和我们正常的内耳比,
04:35
in comparison对照 to our regular定期 inner ear.
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太粗糙了。
04:37
But here is that same相同 girl女孩 who is implanted植入 now.
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但是这是刚才同一个女孩,她植入了人工耳蜗。
04:40
This is her 10 years年份 later后来.
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这是她10年后的录像。
04:42
And this is a video视频 that was taken采取
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这段录像是我的手术导师,John Niparko医生,拍摄的。
04:44
by my surgical外科 mentor导师, Dr博士. John约翰 NiparkoNiparko, who implanted植入 her.
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他为她做了人工耳蜗植入手术。
04:46
If we could play this video视频 please.
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请播放这段录像。
04:49
(Video视频) John约翰 NiparkoNiparko: So you've written书面 two books图书?
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(录像)John Niparko:你写了两本书?
04:51
Girl女孩: I have written书面 two books图书. (Mother母亲: Was the other one a book or a journal日志 entry条目?)
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女孩:我写了两本书。(母亲:另一本是书还是日记?)
04:54
Girl女孩: No, the other one was a book. (Mother母亲: Oh, okay.)
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女孩:不,另一本是本书。(母亲:好吧。)
04:58
JNJN: Well this book has seven chapters,
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JN:这本书有7个章节,
05:01
and the last chapter章节
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最后一章
05:04
is entitled标题 "The Good Things About Being存在 Deaf."
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叫做“失聪的美妙”。
05:08
Do you remember记得 writing写作 that chapter章节?
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你还记得你写了这个章节么?
05:11
Girl女孩: Yes I do. I remember记得 writing写作 every一切 chapter章节.
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女孩:记得。我记得我写过的每个章节。
05:14
JNJN: Yeah.
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JN:好。
05:16
Girl女孩: Well sometimes有时 my sister妹妹 can be kind of annoying恼人的.
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女孩:有时候我妹妹很烦人。
05:20
So it comes in handy便利 to not be annoyed懊恼 by her.
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失聪就不会被她烦到了。
05:24
JNJN: I see. And who is that?
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JN:明白了。她是谁?
05:27
Girl女孩: Holly冬青. (JNJN: Okay.)
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女孩:Holly。(JN:好吧。)
05:29
Mother母亲: Her sister妹妹. (JNJN: Her sister妹妹.) Girl女孩: My sister妹妹.
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母亲:她的妹妹。(JN:她的妹妹。)女孩:我妹妹。
05:31
JNJN: And how can you avoid避免 being存在 annoyed懊恼 by her?
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JN:你怎么避免被她烦到?
05:34
Girl女孩: I just take off my CICI, and I don't hear anything.
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女孩:我把我的人工耳蜗取下来,我就什么都听不到了。
05:37
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
05:39
It comes in handy便利.
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很方便的。
05:41
JNJN: So you don't want to hear everything that's out there?
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JN:你不想听到所有的声音?
05:44
Girl女孩: No.
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女孩:不想。
05:46
CLCL: And so she's phenomenal非凡的.
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CL:她的例子令人惊叹。
05:48
And there's no way that you can't look at that as an overwhelming压倒 success成功.
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我们不能不承认人工耳蜗是个巨大的成功。
05:51
It is. It's a huge巨大 success成功 story故事 in modern现代 medicine医学.
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它是的。它是现代医学的巨大成功。
05:54
However然而, despite尽管 this incredible难以置信 facility设施
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然而,尽管这个设备如此奇特,
05:57
that some cochlear人工耳蜗 implant注入 users用户 display显示 with language语言,
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一些人工耳蜗的使用者甚至都写了书,
05:59
you turn on the radio无线电 and all of a sudden突然 they can't hear music音乐 almost几乎 at all.
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你打开收音机,他们却几乎完全听不到音乐。
06:03
In fact事实, most implant注入 users用户 really struggle斗争
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事实上,大部分人工耳蜗使用者听到音乐时一点也不喜欢,
06:05
and dislike反感 music音乐 because it sounds声音 so bad.
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感到痛苦极了,因为音乐听起来太糟糕了。
06:08
And so when it comes to this idea理念
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我们距离
06:10
of restoring恢复 beauty美女 to somebody's某人的 life,
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帮助病人恢复审美能力
06:12
we have a long way to go when it comes to audition面试.
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还差的远得很。
06:14
Now there are a lot of reasons原因 for that.
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导致这个的原因有许多。
06:16
I mentioned提到 earlier the fact事实
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之前我提到过
06:18
that music音乐 is a different不同 capacity容量 because it's abstract抽象.
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音乐是不一样的,因为它是抽象的。
06:20
Language语言 is very different不同. Language语言 is very precise精确.
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语言就不同了。语言非常的具体。
06:22
In fact事实, the whole整个 reason原因 we use it
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事实上,我们使用语言,
06:24
is because it has semantic-specificity语义特异性.
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就是因为它具有特定的语义。
06:26
When you say a word,
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当我们说到一个词时,
06:28
what you care关心 is that word was perceived感知 correctly正确地.
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我们在乎的是这个词是否被准确得理解了。
06:30
You don't care关心 that the word sounded满面 pretty漂亮
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我们不在乎这个词说起来
06:32
when it was spoken.
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好不好听。
06:34
Music音乐 is entirely完全 different不同.
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音乐完全不一样。
06:36
When you hear music音乐, if it doesn't sound声音 good, what's the point?
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当我们听到音乐时,如果它不好听,我们还听什么?
06:38
There's really very little point in listening to music音乐
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如果音乐听起来不好听,
06:40
when it doesn't sound声音 good to you.
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我们就不会再听下去了。
06:42
The acoustics声学 of music音乐 are much harder更难 than those of language语言.
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音乐的音质比语言的音质要高多了。
06:45
And you can see on this figure数字,
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从这幅图中我们可以看到,
06:47
that the frequency频率 range范围
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音乐的频率范围,
06:49
and the decibel分贝 range范围, the dynamic动态 range范围 of music音乐
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分贝范围,和能动范围
06:51
is far more heterogeneous异质.
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比起语言要复杂多了。
06:53
So if we had to design设计 a perfect完善 cochlear人工耳蜗 implant注入,
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因此如果我们必须要设计出一个完美的人工耳蜗的话,
06:55
what we would try to do
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我们必须要让它能够
06:57
is target目标 it to be able能够 to allow允许 music音乐 transmission传输.
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传输音乐。
07:00
Because I always view视图 music音乐 as the pinnacle巅峰 of hearing听力.
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我一直把音乐视为听力的巅峰。
07:03
If you can hear music音乐,
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如果你能听见音乐,
07:05
you should be able能够 to hear anything.
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你就应该可以听见任何东西。
07:07
Now the problems问题 begin开始 first with pitch沥青 perception知觉.
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问题首先起于音高接收。
07:10
I mean, most of us know that pitch沥青 is a fundamental基本的 building建造 block of music音乐.
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我们大部分人都知道音高是音乐的一个基本组成部分。
07:13
And without the ability能力 to perceive感知 pitch沥青 well,
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如果不能很好地接收音高,
07:15
music音乐 and melody旋律 is a very difficult thing to do --
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音乐和旋律听起来就会非常困难。
07:18
forget忘记 about a harmony和谐 and things like that.
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更别说和弦之类的了。
07:20
Now this is a MIDIMIDI arrangement安排 of Rachmaninoff's拉赫玛尼诺夫 Prelude序幕.
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这是拉赫玛尼诺夫的序曲的MIDI版本。
07:23
Now if we could just play this.
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我们来播放一下。
07:25
(Music音乐)
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(音乐)
07:49
Okay, now if we consider考虑
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好的,现在我们假设
07:52
that in a cochlear人工耳蜗 implant注入 patient患者
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有一个植入了人工耳蜗的病人,
07:54
pitch沥青 perception知觉 could be off as much as two octaves八度,
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他的音高接收也许能差上两个八度,
07:57
let's see what happens发生 here
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我们来看看当我们随机地把这些音符升高或降低半个音调时
07:59
when we randomize随机 this to within one semitone半音.
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会发生什么。
08:01
We would be thrilled高兴 if we had one semitone半音 pitch沥青 perception知觉 in cochlear人工耳蜗 implant注入 users用户.
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如果人工耳蜗的使用者能接收到半个音调的不同,那会好极了。
08:04
Go ahead and play this one.
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播放一下这段音乐。
08:06
(Music音乐)
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(音乐)
08:29
Now my goal目标 in showing展示 you that
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我向各位展示这段音乐的目的
08:31
is to show显示 you that music音乐 is not robust强大的 to degradation降解.
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是想展示音乐经不起损伤。
08:33
You distort歪曲 it a little bit, especially特别 in terms条款 of pitch沥青, and you've changed it.
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你只是篡改了一点点,特别是从音高角度来讲,但你已经改变整个音乐。
08:37
And it might威力 be that you kind of like that.
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也许你有点喜欢这么做。
08:39
That's kind of hypnotic催眠.
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这有点儿像催眠。
08:41
But it certainly当然 wasn't the way the music音乐 was intended.
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但毫无疑问,音乐听起来不应该是这样的。
08:43
And you're not hearing听力 the same相同 thing
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你听到的和大多数听力正常的人听到的
08:45
that most people who have normal正常 hearing听力 are hearing听力.
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是不一样的。
08:47
Now the other issue问题 comes with,
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另一个问题不仅是因为病人
08:49
not just the ability能力 to tell pitches球场 apart距离,
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缺乏区分音高的能力,
08:51
but the ability能力 to tell sounds声音 apart距离.
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还因为他们无法区分声音。
08:53
Most cochlear人工耳蜗 implant注入 users用户 cannot不能 tell the difference区别 between之间 an instrument仪器.
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大多数人工耳蜗使用者不能区分不同的乐器。
08:56
If we could play these two sound声音 clips剪辑 in succession演替.
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我们来连续播放一下这两段音频。
08:58
(Trumpet喇叭)
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(喇叭)
09:00
The trumpet喇叭.
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喇叭。
09:02
And the second第二 one.
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第二段。
09:04
(Violin小提琴)
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(小提琴)
09:05
That's a violin小提琴.
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是小提琴。
09:07
These have similar类似 wave forms形式. They're both sustained持续 instruments仪器.
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这两段音频的声波波形很相似。它们都来自持续演奏的乐器。
09:09
Cochlear人工耳蜗 implant注入 users用户 cannot不能 tell the difference区别
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人工耳蜗使用者无法辨别
09:11
between之间 these instruments仪器.
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乐器间的差异。
09:13
The sound声音 quality质量, or the sound声音 of the sound声音
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我喜欢用音质,或是说声音的声音
09:15
is how I like to describe描述 timbre音色, tone color颜色 --
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来描述音色,音调——
09:17
they cannot不能 tell these things whatsoever任何.
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但人工耳蜗使用者无法辨别这些区别。
09:19
This implant注入 is not transmitting发射
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人工耳蜗没法传递
09:22
the quality质量 of music音乐 that usually平时 provides提供 things like warmth热情.
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音乐的质感,这种质感带给我们,比如说,温暖的感觉。
09:25
Now if you look at the brain of an individual个人 who has a cochlear人工耳蜗 implant注入
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我们来观察一下一位人工耳蜗使用者的大脑,
09:28
and you have them listen to speech言语,
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让他听人讲话,
09:30
have them listen to rhythm韵律 and have them listen to melody旋律,
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或者听节奏,听旋律,
09:32
what you find is that the auditory听觉 cortex皮质
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我们会发现他的听觉皮层
09:34
is the most active活性 during speech言语.
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在他听别人讲话时最活跃。
09:36
You would think that because these implants植入物 are optimized优化 for speech言语,
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你也许会认为这是因为这些人工耳蜗是专为听讲话设计,
09:38
they were designed设计 for speech言语.
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会优化话语。
09:40
But actually其实 if you look at melody旋律,
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但事实上我们来看一下人工耳蜗使用者听旋律时的反应,
09:42
what you find is that there's very little cortical皮质 activity活动
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我们会发现,和听力正常的人比起来,
09:44
in implant注入 users用户 compared相比 with normal正常 hearing听力 controls控制.
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他们的皮质活动非常少。
09:47
So for whatever随你 reason原因,
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不管是基于什么原因,
09:49
this implant注入 is not successfully顺利 stimulating刺激 auditory听觉 cortices皮层
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耳蜗的植入没能在病人听旋律时
09:52
during melody旋律 perception知觉.
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成功地刺激他的听觉皮层。
09:55
Now the next下一个 question is,
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下一个问题就是,
09:57
well how does it really sound声音?
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对于耳蜗植入者来说,音乐听起来到底是什么样的?
09:59
Now we've我们已经 been doing some studies学习
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我们一直在研究,
10:01
to really get a sense of what sound声音 quality质量 is like for these implant注入 users用户.
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对于这些人工耳蜗使用者,音质到底是什么样的。
10:04
I'm going to play you two clips剪辑 of Usher招待员,
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我会给大家播放两段Usher的音乐,
10:06
one which哪一个 is normal正常
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一段是正常的,
10:08
and one which哪一个 has almost几乎 no high frequencies频率, almost几乎 no low frequencies频率
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另一断几乎没有高频音,没有低频音,
10:10
and not even that many许多 mid frequencies频率.
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甚至中频率音也没有多少。
10:12
Go ahead and play that.
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来播放一下。
10:14
(Music音乐)
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(音乐)
10:18
(Limited有限 Frequency频率 Music音乐)
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(限频音乐)
10:24
I had patients耐心 tell me that those sound声音 the same相同.
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病人告诉我,这两段音乐听起来是一样的。
10:27
They cannot不能 differentiate区分 sound声音 quality质量 differences分歧
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他们不能区分
10:30
between之间 those two clips剪辑.
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这两段音频的音质。
10:32
Again, we are very, very far away in just getting得到 to where we want to get to.
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再一次强调,我们距离我们的目标还差得非常、非常远。
10:35
Now the question comes to mind心神: Is there any hope希望?
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现在问题变成了:有希望么?
10:38
And yes, there is hope希望.
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有的,希望是有的。
10:40
Now I don't know if anybody任何人 knows知道 who this is.
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我不知道有没有人知道这是谁。
10:42
This is ... does somebody know?
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有人知道么?
10:44
This is Beethoven贝多芬.
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这是贝多芬。
10:47
Now why would we know what Beethoven's贝多芬 skull头骨 looks容貌 like?
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我们为什么会知道贝多芬的头骨是什么样的?
10:50
Because his grave was exhumed挖出.
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因为他的坟墓被挖掘了。
10:52
And it turns out that his temporal bones骨头 were harvested收获 when he died死亡
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事实上在他辞世时,他的颞骨被取走
10:55
to try to look at the cause原因 of his deafness,
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以研究他失聪的原因,
10:57
which哪一个 is why he has molding造型 clay粘土
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这就是为什么在他的头骨里有黏土,
10:59
and his skull头骨 is bulging挺着 out on the side there.
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头骨的侧面是鼓出来的。
11:01
But Beethoven贝多芬 composed music音乐
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但是贝多芬在他失聪后很长时间
11:03
long after he lost丢失 his hearing听力.
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还在作曲。
11:05
What that suggests提示 is that, even in the case案件 of hearing听力 loss失利,
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这意味着,即使在失去听力的情况下,
11:08
the capacity容量 for music音乐 remains遗迹.
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欣赏音乐的能力还是能保留下来。
11:10
The brains大脑 remain hardwired硬线 for music音乐.
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大脑还对音乐有感觉。
11:14
I've been very lucky幸运 to work with Dr博士. David大卫 Ryugo龙乡
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我曾有幸和David Ryugo医生一同工作。
11:16
where I've been working加工 on deaf cats that are white白色
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在他那儿我研究,如果我们给失聪的白猫
11:19
and trying to figure数字 out what happens发生 when we give them cochlear人工耳蜗 implants植入物.
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植入人工耳蜗,会发生什么。
11:22
This is a cat that's been trained熟练 to respond响应 to a trumpet喇叭 for food餐饮.
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这只猫受训后,知道喇叭声就是发食物的信号。
11:27
(Music音乐)
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(音乐)
11:41
Text文本: Beethoven贝多芬 doesn't excite激发 her.
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文字:她对贝多芬不感冒。
11:44
(Music音乐)
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(音乐)
11:56
The "1812 Overture序曲" isn't worth价值 waking醒来 for.
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“1812序曲”也不管用。
12:01
(Trumpet喇叭)
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(喇叭)
12:11
But she jumps跳跃 to action行动 when called to duty义务!
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但是一听到喇叭,她就跳了起来!
12:14
(Trumpet喇叭)
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(喇叭)
12:18
CLCL: Now I'm not suggesting提示
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CL:我不是说
12:20
that the cat is hearing听力 that trumpet喇叭 the way we're hearing听力 it.
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这只猫听喇叭就跟我们听到喇叭一样。
12:23
I'm suggesting提示 that with training训练
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我是说,通过训练,
12:25
you can imbue a musical音乐 sound声音 with significance意义,
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你甚至可以给一只猫灌输
12:28
even in a cat.
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一种特别的音乐。
12:30
If we were to direct直接 efforts努力
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如果我们花些功夫,
12:32
towards training训练 cochlear人工耳蜗 implant注入 users用户 to hear music音乐 --
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来训练人工耳蜗植入者听音乐——
12:35
because right now there's virtually实质上 no effort功夫 put towards that,
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目前我们还从来没有在这方面上下过功夫,
12:38
no rehabilitative康复 strategies策略,
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我们没有什么康复策略,
12:40
very little in the way of technological技术性 advances进步 to actually其实 improve提高 music音乐 --
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我们也没什么能改进音乐的技术上的进步——
12:43
we would come a long way.
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我们将取得很大的成就。
12:45
Now I want to show显示 you one last video视频.
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现在我想给大家播放最后一段录像。
12:48
And this is of a student学生 of mine named命名 Joseph约瑟夫
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这是关于我的一个学生,他叫Joseph,
12:50
who I had the good fortune幸运 to work with for three years年份 in my lab实验室.
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三年前我有幸和他在我的实验室里一同工作。
12:53
He's deaf, and he learned学到了 to play the piano钢琴
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他失聪了,在他植入人工耳蜗后,
12:56
after he received收到 the cochlear人工耳蜗 implant注入.
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他学会了弹钢琴。
12:58
And here's这里的 a video视频 of Joseph约瑟夫.
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这是Joseph的录像。
13:01
(Music音乐)
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(音乐)
13:45
(Video视频) Joseph约瑟夫: I was born天生 in 1986.
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(录像)Joseph:我出生于1986年。
13:48
And at about four months个月 old,
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大概在我4个月大的时候,
13:50
I was diagnosed确诊 with profoundly深深 severe严重 hearing听力 loss失利.
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我被诊断患有严重的失聪。
13:52
Not long after,
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之后没过多久,
13:54
I was fitted with hearing听力 aids艾滋病.
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我开始使用助听器。
13:56
But although虽然 these hearing听力 aids艾滋病
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尽管那些助听器
13:58
were the most powerful强大 hearing听力 aids艾滋病 on the market市场 at the time,
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是当时市场上最好的助听器,
14:00
they weren't very helpful有帮助.
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它们没怎么帮到我。
14:02
So as a result结果, I had to rely依靠 on lip reading a lot,
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因此,我不得不经常依靠唇读。
14:07
and I couldn't不能 really hear what people were saying.
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我没法真的听见人们在说什么。
14:09
When I was 12 years年份 old,
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在我12岁时,
14:11
I was one of the first few少数 people in Singapore新加坡
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我成了新加坡为数不多的、
14:14
who underwent后行 cochlear人工耳蜗 implantation植入.
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接受人工耳蜗植入的人。
14:17
And not long after I got my cochlear人工耳蜗 implant注入,
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之后不久,
14:21
I started开始 learning学习 how to play piano钢琴.
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我开始学习演奏钢琴。
14:23
And it was absolutely绝对 wonderful精彩.
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钢琴真是太美妙了。
14:25
Since以来 then, I've never looked看着 back.
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从此之后,我一直在演奏。
14:27
CLCL: Joseph约瑟夫 is phenomenal非凡的. He's brilliant辉煌.
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CL: Joseph真是令人赞叹。他卓越杰出。
14:29
He is now a medical student学生 at Yale耶鲁 University大学,
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他现在是耶鲁大学的医学院学生,
14:31
and he's contemplating考虑 a surgical外科 career事业 --
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他想作一位外科医生——
14:33
one of the first deaf individuals个人 to consider考虑 a career事业 in surgery手术.
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他是最早考虑作外科医生的失聪患者之一。
14:36
There are almost几乎 no deaf surgeons外科医生 anywhere随地.
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失聪的外科医生几乎哪儿也没有。
14:39
And this is really unheard闻所未闻 of stuff东东, and this is all because of this technology技术.
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这前所未闻,这是人工耳蜗技术的功劳。
14:42
And the fact事实 that he can play the piano钢琴 like that
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他能够那样演奏钢琴
14:44
is a testament遗嘱 to his brain.
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是对他大脑的证明。
14:46
Truth真相 of the matter is you can play the piano钢琴 without a cochlear人工耳蜗 implant注入,
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事实是,你没有人工耳蜗也可以弹钢琴,
14:49
because all you have to do is press the keys按键 at the right time.
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因为你只需要在适当的时间按琴键就是了。
14:51
You don't actually其实 have to hear it.
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你不需要真的能听见。
14:53
I know he doesn't hear well, because I've heard听说 him do Karaoke卡拉OK.
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我知道Joseph的听力不是很好,因为我听过他唱卡拉OK。
14:56
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
14:58
And it's one of the most awful可怕 things --
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那真是最糟糕的事情之一——
15:01
heartwarming感人, but awful可怕.
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他的心意我领了,但是还是很糟糕。
15:03
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
15:05
And so there is certainly当然 a lot of hope希望,
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因此毫无疑问我们有希望帮患者恢复审美,
15:07
but there's a lot more that needs需求 to be doneDONE.
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但我们需要做的还有很多。
15:09
So I just want to conclude得出结论 with the following以下 words.
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我想用以下的话来结束我的演讲。
15:11
When it comes to restoration恢复 of hearing听力,
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说到帮患者恢复听力,
15:13
we have certainly当然 come a long way, a remarkably异常 long way.
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我们毫无疑问已经走了一段很长、非常长的路。
15:16
And we have a much longer way to go
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我们前方的路会更长,
15:19
when it comes to the idea理念 of restoring恢复 perfect完善 hearing听力.
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如果我们想帮助患者恢复完美的听力。
15:21
And let me tell you right now,
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我现在就告诉大家,
15:23
it's fine that we would all be very happy快乐 with speech言语.
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我们为能听见别人讲话而满意,这没什么不好。
15:25
But I tell you, if we lost丢失 our hearing听力,
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但我想告诉大家,如果我们失去了听力,
15:27
if anyone任何人 here suddenly突然 lost丢失 your hearing听力,
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如果在座的某位突然失去了听力,
15:29
you would want perfect完善 hearing听力 back.
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我们会想要恢复完美的听力的。
15:31
You wouldn't不会 want decent正经 hearing听力, you would want perfect完善 hearing听力.
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我们不会想要不错的听力,我们想要完美的听力。
15:34
Restoration恢复 of basic基本 sensory感觉的 function功能 is critical危急.
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恢复基本的感官功能是极其重要的。
15:37
And I don't mean to understate保守地说
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我不是在低估,
15:39
how important重要 it is to restore恢复 basic基本 function功能.
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恢复基本功能的重要性。
15:41
But it's really restoration恢复 of the ability能力 to perceive感知 beauty美女
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但我们真正会从中得到启发的,
15:44
where we can get inspiring鼓舞人心.
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是恢复欣赏美的能力。
15:46
And I don't think that we should give up on beauty美女.
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我想我们不会放弃美的。
15:48
And I want to thank you for your time.
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谢谢大家。
15:50
(Applause掌声)
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(掌声)
Translated by Jing Gao
Reviewed by Angelia King

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Charles Limb - Researcher
Charles Limb is a doctor and a musician who researches the way musical creativity works in the brain.

Why you should listen

Charles Limb is the Francis A. Sooy, MD Professor and Chief of Otology/Neurotology and Skull Base Surgery at the University of California, San Francisco, and he's a Faculty Member at the Peabody Conservatory of Music. He combines his two passions to study the way the brain creates and perceives music. He's a hearing specialist and surgeon at Johns Hopkins who performs cochlear implantations on patients who have lost their hearing. And he plays sax, piano and bass.

In search of a better understanding of how the mind perceives complex auditory stimuli such as music, he's been working with Allen Braun to look at the brains of improvising musicians and study what parts of the brain are involved in the kind of deep creativity that happens when a musician is really in the groove.

Read our Q&A about hip-hop studies with Charles Limb on the TED Blog >>

Plus our quick catchup Q&A at TEDMED 2011 -- including his top 5 songs of all time >>

Read the 2014 paper "Neural Substrates of Interactive Musical Improvisation: An fMRI Study of ‘Trading Fours’ in Jazz" >>

More profile about the speaker
Charles Limb | Speaker | TED.com