TEDMED 2011
Charles Limb: Building the musical muscle
Charles Limb: Gradnja glazbenog mišića
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Charles Limb obavlja ugradnju umjetne pužnice, operaciju koja liječi gubitak sluha i može vratiti sposobnost razpoznavanja govora. Kao glazbenik, Limb razmišlja o tome što implantantima nedostaje: Još uvijek vam ne dopuštaju da potpuno iskusite glazbu. (Postoji zapanjujući primjer). Na TEDMED-u, Limb razmatra stanje stvati i mogući napredak.
Charles Limb - Researcher
Charles Limb is a doctor and a musician who researches the way musical creativity works in the brain. Full bio
Charles Limb is a doctor and a musician who researches the way musical creativity works in the brain. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
Now when we think of our senses,
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Kada razmišljamo o našim osjetilima,
00:20
we don't usually think of the reasons
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obično ne razmišljamo o razlogu
00:22
why they probably evolved, from a biological perspective.
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zbog kojeg su se vjerojatno razvila, sa biološke strane.
00:24
We don't really think of the evolutionary need
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Zapravo ne razmišljamo o evolucijskoj potrebi
00:27
to be protected by our senses,
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da budemo zaštićeni svojim osjetilima,
00:29
but that's probably why our senses really evolved --
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ali to je vjerojatno razlog što su se naša osjetila stvarno razvila –
00:31
to keep us safe, to allow us to live.
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da nas zaštite, da nam dopuste da živimo.
00:34
Really when we think of our senses,
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Zapravo kad razmišljamo o svojim osjetilima
00:36
or when we think of the loss of the sense,
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ili kad razmišljamo o njihovom gubitku,
00:38
we really think about something more like this:
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zapravo razmišljamo o nečemu sličnijem ovome:
00:40
the ability to touch something luxurious, to taste something delicious,
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sposobnost da dotaknemo nešto luksuzno, okusimo nešto ukusno,
00:43
to smell something fragrant,
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pomirišimo nešto mirišljavo,
00:45
to see something beautiful.
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vidimo nešto predivno.
00:47
This is what we want out of our senses.
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To je ono što mi želimo od naših osjetila.
00:49
We want beauty; we don't just want function.
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Želimo ljepotu, ne želimo samo funkciju.
00:52
And when it comes to sensory restoration,
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I kad se radi o oporavku osjetila,
00:54
we're still very far away from being able to provide beauty.
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još uvijek smo vrlo daleko od toga da možemo pružiti ljepotu.
00:57
And that's what I'd like to talk to you a little bit about today.
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I to je ono o čemu bih vam htio malo pričati danas.
01:00
Likewise for hearing.
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Isto vrijedi i za sluh.
01:02
When we think about why we hear,
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Kad razmislimo o tome zašto čujemo,
01:04
we don't often think about the ability to hear an alarm or a siren,
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ne pomislimo često na mogućnost da čujemo alarm ili sirenu,
01:07
although clearly that's an important thing.
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iako je to očito bitna stvar.
01:09
Really what we want to hear is music.
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Ono što stvarno želimo čuti je glazba.
01:12
(Music)
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(Glazba)
01:27
So many of you know that that's Beethoven's Seventh Symphony.
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Mnogi od vas znaju da je to Beethovenova Sedma simfonija.
01:29
Many of you know that he was deaf, or near profoundly deaf,
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Mnogi od vas znaju da je on bio gluh, ili gotovo gluh
01:32
when he wrote that.
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kada je to napisao.
01:34
Now I'd like to impress upon you
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Sada bih vas htio impresionirati
01:36
how unusual it is that we can hear music.
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time koliko je neobično to što možemo čuti glazbu.
01:39
Music is just one of the strangest things that there is.
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Glazba je jedna od najčudnijih stvari što postoje.
01:42
It's acoustic vibrations in the air,
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To su akustične vibracije u zraku,
01:45
little waves of energy in the air that tickle our eardrum.
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mali valovi energije u zraku koje škakljaju naš bubnjić.
01:48
Somehow in tickling our eardrum
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Nekako tijekom škakljanja tog bubnjića
01:50
that transmits energy down our hearing bones,
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prenosi se energija do naših slušnih koščica,
01:52
which get converted to a fluid impulse inside the cochlea
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što se pretvara u tečan impuls unutar pužnice
01:55
and then somehow converted into an electrical signal in our auditory nerves
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i onda se nekako pretvara u električni signal u našim slušnim živcima
01:58
that somehow wind up in our brains
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koji nekako završe u našem mozgu
02:01
as a perception of a song or a beautiful piece of music.
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kao percepcija pjesme ili prekrasnog glazbenog djela.
02:04
That process is entirely abstract and very, very unusual.
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Taj proces je potpuno apstraktan i vrlo, vrlo neobičan.
02:07
And we could discuss that topic alone for days
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I mogli bismo pričati samo o toj temi danima
02:10
to really try to figure out, how is it that we hear something that's emotional
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da bismo pokušali shvatiti kako to da nešto
02:14
from something that starts out as a vibration in the air?
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što je počelo kao vibracija u zraku čujemo kao emocionalno?
02:17
Turns out that if you have hearing loss,
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Čini se da ako imate gubitak sluha,
02:19
most people that lose their hearing
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većina ljudi koji izgube svoj sluh,
02:21
lose it at what's called the cochlea, the inner ear.
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izgube ga u onome što se zove pužnica, unutrašnje uho.
02:24
And it's at the hair cell level that they do this.
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I to na razini stanica sa dlačicama.
02:27
Now if you had to pick a sense to lose,
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Kad biste morali izabrati koji ćete osjet izgubiti,
02:29
I have to be very honest with you
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moram biti iskren
02:31
and say, we're better at restoring hearing
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i reći da smo bolji u obnavljanju sluha
02:33
than we are at restoring any sense that there is.
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nego u obnavljanju bilo kojeg drugog osjeta koji postoji.
02:35
In fact, nothing even actually comes close
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Zapravo, ništa nije ni blizu
02:37
to our ability to restore hearing.
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našoj sposobnost da vratimo sluh.
02:39
And as a physician and a surgeon, I can confidently tell my patients
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Kao doktor i kirurg mogu pouzdano reći svojim pacijentima da,
02:42
that if you had to pick a sense to lose,
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kada bi morali birati koji osjet će izgubiti,
02:44
we are the furthest along medically and surgically with hearing.
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da smo medicinski i kirurški najdalje stigli sa sluhom.
02:48
As a musician, I can tell you
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Kao glazbenik, mogu vam reći da,
02:50
that if I had to have a cochlear implant,
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kada bih morao imati umjetnu pužnicu,
02:52
I'd be heartbroken. I'd just be plainly heartbroken,
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to bi mi slomilo srce. Jednostavno bi mi slomilo srce,
02:54
because I know that music would never sound the same to me.
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jer znam da mi glazba nikada ne bi isto zvučala.
02:58
Now this is a video that I'm going to show you
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Ovo je video koji ću vam pokazati
03:01
of a girl who's born deaf.
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o curici koja je rođena gluha.
03:03
She's in a very supportive environment.
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Ona je u okruženju koje je jako podržava.
03:05
Her mother's doing everything she can.
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Njena majka radi sve što može.
03:07
Okay, play that video please.
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U redu, pustite taj video molim.
03:09
(Video) Mother: That's an owl.
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(Video) Majka: To je sova.
03:11
Owl, yeah.
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Sova, da.
03:18
Owl. Owl.
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Sova. Sova.
03:21
Yeah.
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Da.
03:28
Baby. Baby.
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Dijete. Dijete.
03:31
You want it?
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Želiš ju?
03:34
(Kiss)
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(Poljubac)
03:37
Charles Limb: Now despite everything going for this child
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Charles Limb: Unatoč svemu što ide u korist ovom djetetu
03:39
in terms of family support
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u vidu obiteljske podrške
03:41
and simple infused learning,
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i jednostavnog učenja
03:43
there is a limitation to what a child who's deaf, an infant who was born deaf,
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postoji ograničenje prema onome što dijete koje je gluho, maleno dijete rođeno gluho,
03:46
has in this world
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ima u ovom svijetu
03:48
in terms of social, educational, vocational opportunities.
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što se tiče društvenih, obrazovnih i glasovnih mogućnosti.
03:51
I'm not saying that they can't live a beautiful, wonderful life.
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Ne kažem da ne mogu imati prekrasan, predivan život.
03:54
I'm saying that they're going to face obstacles
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Kažem da će naići na prepreke
03:56
that most people who have normal hearing will not have to face.
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s kojima se većina ljudi s normalnim sluhom ne mora suočiti.
03:59
Now hearing loss and the treatment for hearing loss
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Dakle, gubitak sluha i liječenje gubitka sluha
04:01
has really evolved in the past 200 years.
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se mnogo razvilo u zadnjih 200 godina.
04:03
I mean literally,
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Mislim doslovno,
04:05
they used to do things like stick ear-shaped objects onto your ears
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nekada su ljudi znali zataknuti predmete nalik uhu na vaše uho
04:08
and stick funnels in.
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i umetnuti lijevke u njih.
04:10
And that was the best you could do for hearing loss.
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I to je bilo najbolje što ste mogli napraviti za gubitak sluha.
04:12
Back then you couldn't even look at the eardrum.
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Tada niste mogli ni pogledati bubnjić.
04:14
So it's not too surprising
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Stoga nije previše iznenađujuće
04:16
that there were no good treatments for hearing loss.
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što nije bilo nikakvog dobrog tretmana za gubitak sluha.
04:18
And now today we have the modern multi-channel cochlear implant,
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A danas ugrađujemo modernu višekanalnu umjetnu pužnicu,
04:20
which is an outpatient procedure.
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što je procedura koja ne zahtijeva noćenje u bolnici.
04:22
It's surgically placed inside the inner ear.
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Kirurški se stavlja unutar unutarnjeg uha.
04:24
It takes about an hour and a half to two hours, depending on where it's done,
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Traje otprilike sat i pol do dva sata, ovisno o tome gdje se obavlja,
04:26
under general anesthesia.
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pod općom anestezijom.
04:28
And in the end, you achieve something like this
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I na kraju, postignete nešto kao ovo ovdje
04:30
where an electrode array is inserted inside the cochlea.
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gdje je niz elektroda umetnut unutar pužnice.
04:33
Now actually, this is quite crude
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No zapravo , ovo je vrlo banalno
04:35
in comparison to our regular inner ear.
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u usporedbi s našim normalnim unutarnjim uhom.
04:37
But here is that same girl who is implanted now.
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Ali ovdje je ona ista curica koja sada ima pužnicu.
04:40
This is her 10 years later.
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To je ona 10 godina kasnije.
04:42
And this is a video that was taken
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I ovo je video koji je snimio
04:44
by my surgical mentor, Dr. John Niparko, who implanted her.
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moj kirurški mentor, dr. John Niparko koji joj je usadio implant.
04:46
If we could play this video please.
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Ako biste mogli pustiti ovaj video, molim.
04:49
(Video) John Niparko: So you've written two books?
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(Video) John Niparko: Dakle napisala si dvije knjige?
04:51
Girl: I have written two books. (Mother: Was the other one a book or a journal entry?)
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Djevojčica: Napisala sam dvije knjige. (Majka: Je li druga bila knjiga ili dnevnik?)
04:54
Girl: No, the other one was a book. (Mother: Oh, okay.)
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Djevojčica: Ne, druga je bila knjiga. (Majka: O, dobro. )
04:58
JN: Well this book has seven chapters,
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JN: Pa ova knjiga ima sedam poglavlja,
05:01
and the last chapter
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i zadnje poglavlje
05:04
is entitled "The Good Things About Being Deaf."
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je naslovljeno „Dobre stvari u gluhoći.“
05:08
Do you remember writing that chapter?
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Sjećaš li se da si napisala ovo poglavlje?
05:11
Girl: Yes I do. I remember writing every chapter.
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Djevojčica: Da, sjećam se. Sjećam se pisanja svakog poglavlja.
05:14
JN: Yeah.
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JN: Da.
05:16
Girl: Well sometimes my sister can be kind of annoying.
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Djevojčica: Pa ponekad moja sestra zna biti pomalo naporna.
05:20
So it comes in handy to not be annoyed by her.
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Pa bude korisno kad mi ona ne smeta.
05:24
JN: I see. And who is that?
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JN: Vidim. A tko je ovo?
05:27
Girl: Holly. (JN: Okay.)
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Djevojčica: Holly. (JN: U redu.)
05:29
Mother: Her sister. (JN: Her sister.) Girl: My sister.
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Majka: Njena sestra. (JN: Njena sestra) Djevojčica: Moja sestra.
05:31
JN: And how can you avoid being annoyed by her?
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JN: I kako možeš izbjeći da ti ona dosađuje?
05:34
Girl: I just take off my CI, and I don't hear anything.
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Djevojčica: Samo skinem svoj umetak i onda ništa ne čujem.
05:37
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
05:39
It comes in handy.
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Korisno je.
05:41
JN: So you don't want to hear everything that's out there?
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JN: Dakle ne želiš čuti sve što možeš?
05:44
Girl: No.
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Djevojčica: Ne.
05:46
CL: And so she's phenomenal.
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CL: I dakle, ona je fenomenalna.
05:48
And there's no way that you can't look at that as an overwhelming success.
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I nema šanse da ne možete gledati na to kao na nadmoćan uspjeh.
05:51
It is. It's a huge success story in modern medicine.
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Stvarno je. To je ogromna priča o uspjehu moderne medicine.
05:54
However, despite this incredible facility
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Međutim, unatoč ovoj nevjerojatnoj mogućnosti
05:57
that some cochlear implant users display with language,
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koju neki korisnici umjetnih pužnica pokazuju sa jezikom,
05:59
you turn on the radio and all of a sudden they can't hear music almost at all.
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upalite radio i odjednom gotovo uopće ne mogu čuti glazbu.
06:03
In fact, most implant users really struggle
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Zapravo, većina korisnika umjetnih pužnica stvarno se muči
06:05
and dislike music because it sounds so bad.
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i ne voli glazbu jer zvuči tako loše.
06:08
And so when it comes to this idea
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I kada dođemo do zamisli
06:10
of restoring beauty to somebody's life,
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da vratimo ljepotu u nečiji život,
06:12
we have a long way to go when it comes to audition.
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imamo vrlo dug put kada se radi o sluhu.
06:14
Now there are a lot of reasons for that.
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No, postoji puno razloga za to.
06:16
I mentioned earlier the fact
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Spomenuo sam ranije
06:18
that music is a different capacity because it's abstract.
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da je glazba drugačije svojstvo zato što je apstraktna.
06:20
Language is very different. Language is very precise.
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Jezik je puno drugačiji. Jezik je vrlo precizan.
06:22
In fact, the whole reason we use it
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Zapravo, pravi razlog zašto ga koristimo
06:24
is because it has semantic-specificity.
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je taj što ima semantičku specifičnost.
06:26
When you say a word,
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Kad kažete riječ,
06:28
what you care is that word was perceived correctly.
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ono što je bitno jest da je ta riječ pravilno percepirana.
06:30
You don't care that the word sounded pretty
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Nije vas briga je li riječ zvučala lijepo
06:32
when it was spoken.
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kad je izgovorena.
06:34
Music is entirely different.
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Glazba je potpuno drugačija.
06:36
When you hear music, if it doesn't sound good, what's the point?
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Kada čujete glazbu, ako ne zvuči dobro, koji je smisao?
06:38
There's really very little point in listening to music
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Gotovo da nema svrhe u slušanju glazbe
06:40
when it doesn't sound good to you.
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kada vam ne zvuči dobro.
06:42
The acoustics of music are much harder than those of language.
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Akustika glazbe je puno složenija od jezične.
06:45
And you can see on this figure,
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I možete vidjeti na ovoj slici
06:47
that the frequency range
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da raspon frekvencije
06:49
and the decibel range, the dynamic range of music
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i raspon decibela, raspon dinamike glazbe
06:51
is far more heterogeneous.
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je puno više heterogen.
06:53
So if we had to design a perfect cochlear implant,
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Stoga kada bismo morali dizajnirati savršenu umjetnu pužnicu,
06:55
what we would try to do
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ono što bismo pokušali napraviti
06:57
is target it to be able to allow music transmission.
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jest ciljati da možemo omogućiti prijenos glazbe.
07:00
Because I always view music as the pinnacle of hearing.
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Zato što uvijek vidim glazbu kao vrhunac sluha.
07:03
If you can hear music,
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Ako možete čuti glazbu,
07:05
you should be able to hear anything.
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trebali biste moći čuti sve.
07:07
Now the problems begin first with pitch perception.
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Problem počinje prvo s percepcijom visine tona.
07:10
I mean, most of us know that pitch is a fundamental building block of music.
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Mislim, većina nas zna da je visina tona osnovni građevni materijal glazbe.
07:13
And without the ability to perceive pitch well,
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I bez sposobnosti da percepiramo visinu tona dobro,
07:15
music and melody is a very difficult thing to do --
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glazba i melodija su vrlo teške za napraviti –
07:18
forget about a harmony and things like that.
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zaboravite na harmoniju i slične stvari.
07:20
Now this is a MIDI arrangement of Rachmaninoff's Prelude.
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Ovo je MIDI aranžman Rachmaninoffova preludija.
07:23
Now if we could just play this.
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Ako bismo mogli to pustiti.
07:25
(Music)
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(Glazba)
07:49
Okay, now if we consider
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Ok, ako uzmemo u obzir
07:52
that in a cochlear implant patient
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da percepcija visine tona pacijenta s ugrađenom umjetnom pužnicom
07:54
pitch perception could be off as much as two octaves,
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može biti pogrešna za čak dvije oktave,
07:57
let's see what happens here
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pogledajmo šta se događa
07:59
when we randomize this to within one semitone.
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kada uzmemo slučajni uzorak unutar jednog polutona.
08:01
We would be thrilled if we had one semitone pitch perception in cochlear implant users.
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Bilo bi zaista izvrsno kada bismo imali percepciju visine jednog polutona kod pacijenata s ugrađenom pužnicom.
08:04
Go ahead and play this one.
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Pustite glazbu.
08:06
(Music)
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(Glazba)
08:29
Now my goal in showing you that
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Moj cilj je pokazati vam
08:31
is to show you that music is not robust to degradation.
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da glazba nije otporna na degradaciju.
08:33
You distort it a little bit, especially in terms of pitch, and you've changed it.
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Napravimo distorziju, pogotovo visine tona, i promijenili smo ju.
08:37
And it might be that you kind of like that.
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Možda vam se to i sviđa.
08:39
That's kind of hypnotic.
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Hipnotično je, na neki način,
08:41
But it certainly wasn't the way the music was intended.
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ali zasigurno ne predstavlja oblik koji je prvobitno zamišljen.
08:43
And you're not hearing the same thing
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Nećete čuti istu stvar
08:45
that most people who have normal hearing are hearing.
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koju čuje većina ljudi s normalnim sluhom.
08:47
Now the other issue comes with,
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Sljedeći problem je
08:49
not just the ability to tell pitches apart,
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ne samo sa sposobnošću razlikovanja visine tona,
08:51
but the ability to tell sounds apart.
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nego i sa sposobnošću razlikovanja zvukova.
08:53
Most cochlear implant users cannot tell the difference between an instrument.
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Većina korisnika umjetne pužnice ne može razlikovati zvukove koje proizvode različiti instrumenti.
08:56
If we could play these two sound clips in succession.
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Ako bismo pustili ova dva zvuka jedan za drugim.
08:58
(Trumpet)
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(Truba)
09:00
The trumpet.
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Truba.
09:02
And the second one.
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I sljedeći.
09:04
(Violin)
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(Violina)
09:05
That's a violin.
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To je violina.
09:07
These have similar wave forms. They're both sustained instruments.
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Ova dva instrumenta imaju slične valne oblike i trajanje tona.
09:09
Cochlear implant users cannot tell the difference
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Korisnici umjetne pužnice ne mogu razlikovati
09:11
between these instruments.
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ova dva instrumenta.
09:13
The sound quality, or the sound of the sound
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Kvaliteta zvuka, ili "zvuk zvuka"
09:15
is how I like to describe timbre, tone color --
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kako ja volim opisati boju tona -
09:17
they cannot tell these things whatsoever.
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oni ju uopće ne mogu razlikovati.
09:19
This implant is not transmitting
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Ovaj implantat ne prenosi
09:22
the quality of music that usually provides things like warmth.
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osobine glazbe koje joj obično daju toplinu i slično.
09:25
Now if you look at the brain of an individual who has a cochlear implant
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Ako pogledate mozak osobe koja ima umjetnu pužnicu
09:28
and you have them listen to speech,
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i date joj da sluša govor,
09:30
have them listen to rhythm and have them listen to melody,
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ritam i melodiju,
09:32
what you find is that the auditory cortex
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otkrit ćete da će slušni korteks
09:34
is the most active during speech.
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biti najaktivniji tijekom slušanja govora.
09:36
You would think that because these implants are optimized for speech,
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Pomislit ćete da je to zato što su te pužnice namijenjene govoru,
09:38
they were designed for speech.
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dizajnirane za slušanje govora.
09:40
But actually if you look at melody,
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Ali, ako pogledate slušanje melodije,
09:42
what you find is that there's very little cortical activity
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otkrit ćete da je tu vrlo malo kortikalne aktivnosti
09:44
in implant users compared with normal hearing controls.
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kod korisnika umjetne pužnice, u odnosu na kontrolnu skupinu normalnog sluha.
09:47
So for whatever reason,
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Tako da, koji god je razlog,
09:49
this implant is not successfully stimulating auditory cortices
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umjetna pužnica nije uspješna u stimulaciji slušnog korteksa
09:52
during melody perception.
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tijekom percepcije melodije.
09:55
Now the next question is,
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Sljedeće pitanje je,
09:57
well how does it really sound?
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kako to doista zvuči?
09:59
Now we've been doing some studies
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Radili smo neka istraživanja
10:01
to really get a sense of what sound quality is like for these implant users.
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da bismo shvatili kakva je kvaliteta zvuka za korisnike implanta.
10:04
I'm going to play you two clips of Usher,
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Pustit ću vam dva isječka Ushera,
10:06
one which is normal
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jedan normalan,
10:08
and one which has almost no high frequencies, almost no low frequencies
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a jedan skoro u potpunosti bez visokih frekvencija, bez niskih frekvencija,
10:10
and not even that many mid frequencies.
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a čak ne ni tako puno srednjih frekvencija.
10:12
Go ahead and play that.
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Pustite to.
10:14
(Music)
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(Glazba)
10:18
(Limited Frequency Music)
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(Glazba ograničene frekvencije)
10:24
I had patients tell me that those sound the same.
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Imao sam pacijente koji bi mi rekli da zvuče jednako.
10:27
They cannot differentiate sound quality differences
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Ne mogu razlikovati kvalitetu zvuka
10:30
between those two clips.
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između ova dva isječka.
10:32
Again, we are very, very far away in just getting to where we want to get to.
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Opet, mi smo vrlo, vrlo daleko od postizanja cilja.
10:35
Now the question comes to mind: Is there any hope?
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Sada na pamet pada pitanje: Ima li ikakve nade?
10:38
And yes, there is hope.
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Da, ima nade.
10:40
Now I don't know if anybody knows who this is.
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Ne znam zna li itko tko je ovo.
10:42
This is ... does somebody know?
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Ovo je ... Zna li netko?
10:44
This is Beethoven.
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Ovo je Beethoven.
10:47
Now why would we know what Beethoven's skull looks like?
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Zašto bismo mi znali kako izgleda Beethovenova lubanja?
10:50
Because his grave was exhumed.
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Zato što je njegov grob ekshumiran
10:52
And it turns out that his temporal bones were harvested when he died
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i pokazalo se da su njegove temporalne kosti uzete
10:55
to try to look at the cause of his deafness,
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kako bi se ustanovio razlog gluhoće,
10:57
which is why he has molding clay
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stoga je tu glina za oblikovanje,
10:59
and his skull is bulging out on the side there.
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a njegova lubanja strši tu sa strane.
11:01
But Beethoven composed music
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Ali, Beethoven je skladao
11:03
long after he lost his hearing.
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dugo nakon što je izgubio sluh.
11:05
What that suggests is that, even in the case of hearing loss,
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To nam pokazuje da, čak i u slučaju gubitka sluha,
11:08
the capacity for music remains.
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zadržavamo glazbenu sposobnost.
11:10
The brains remain hardwired for music.
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Mozak ostaje "ožičen" za glazbu.
11:14
I've been very lucky to work with Dr. David Ryugo
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Imao sam sreću raditi s dr. Davidom Ryugom,
11:16
where I've been working on deaf cats that are white
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gdje sam radio na gluhim, bijelim mačkama,
11:19
and trying to figure out what happens when we give them cochlear implants.
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pokušavajući shvatiti što se dogodi kad im ugradimo umjetnu pužnicu.
11:22
This is a cat that's been trained to respond to a trumpet for food.
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Ovo je mačka koja je trenirana da nakon trubljenja očekuje hranu.
11:27
(Music)
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(Glazba)
11:41
Text: Beethoven doesn't excite her.
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Tekst: Beethoven ju ne uzbuđuje.
11:44
(Music)
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(Glazba)
11:56
The "1812 Overture" isn't worth waking for.
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"1812. uvertira" nije vrijedna buđenja.
12:01
(Trumpet)
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(Truba)
12:11
But she jumps to action when called to duty!
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Ali skače u akciju kada je pozvana na dužnost!
12:14
(Trumpet)
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(Truba)
12:18
CL: Now I'm not suggesting
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CL: Ne želim reći da
12:20
that the cat is hearing that trumpet the way we're hearing it.
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mačka čuje trubu na način na koji ju mi čujemo.
12:23
I'm suggesting that with training
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Samo hoću reći da se treningom
12:25
you can imbue a musical sound with significance,
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može usvojiti zvuk sa značenjem,
12:28
even in a cat.
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čak i kod mačke.
12:30
If we were to direct efforts
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Ako bismo ulagali trud
12:32
towards training cochlear implant users to hear music --
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u treniranje korisnika umjetne pužnice da čuju glazbu,
12:35
because right now there's virtually no effort put towards that,
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budući da se trenutno ne ulaže trud u to,
12:38
no rehabilitative strategies,
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nema rehabilitacijskih strategija,
12:40
very little in the way of technological advances to actually improve music --
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jako malo je tehničkih pristupa da bi se poboljšala glazba -
12:43
we would come a long way.
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napravili bismo veliki napredak.
12:45
Now I want to show you one last video.
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Sada vam želim pokazati zadnji video.
12:48
And this is of a student of mine named Joseph
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Ovo je jedan moj student, Joseph,
12:50
who I had the good fortune to work with for three years in my lab.
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s kojim sam imao sreću raditi 3 godine u svom laboratoriju.
12:53
He's deaf, and he learned to play the piano
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On je gluh i naučio je svirati klavir
12:56
after he received the cochlear implant.
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nakon što mu je ugrađena umjetna pužnica.
12:58
And here's a video of Joseph.
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Ide video o Josephu.
13:01
(Music)
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(Glazba)
13:45
(Video) Joseph: I was born in 1986.
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(Video) Joseph: Rođen sam 1986.
13:48
And at about four months old,
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Kad sam imao oko 4 mjeseca,
13:50
I was diagnosed with profoundly severe hearing loss.
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dijagnosticirano mi je teško oštećenje sluha.
13:52
Not long after,
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Nedugo nakon toga,
13:54
I was fitted with hearing aids.
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dobio sam slušna pomagala.
13:56
But although these hearing aids
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Ali, iako su ta slušna pomagala
13:58
were the most powerful hearing aids on the market at the time,
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bila najjača na tržištu tada,
14:00
they weren't very helpful.
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nisu bila od pomoći.
14:02
So as a result, I had to rely on lip reading a lot,
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Kao rezultat, morao sam se puno oslanjati na čitanje s usana,
14:07
and I couldn't really hear what people were saying.
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i nisam baš čuo što ljudi govore.
14:09
When I was 12 years old,
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Kada sam imao 12 godina,
14:11
I was one of the first few people in Singapore
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bio sam jedan od prvih ljudi u Singapuru
14:14
who underwent cochlear implantation.
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koji je podvrgnut implantaciji pužnice.
14:17
And not long after I got my cochlear implant,
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Ubrzo nakon toga,
14:21
I started learning how to play piano.
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počeo sam učiti svirati klavir.
14:23
And it was absolutely wonderful.
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I bilo je apsolutno prekrasno.
14:25
Since then, I've never looked back.
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Od tada, nisam pomišljao na prošlost.
14:27
CL: Joseph is phenomenal. He's brilliant.
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CL: Joseph je izvanredan. On je sjajan.
14:29
He is now a medical student at Yale University,
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Sada je student medicine na Yaleu
14:31
and he's contemplating a surgical career --
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i razmišlja o kirurškoj karijeri -
14:33
one of the first deaf individuals to consider a career in surgery.
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jedan je od prvih gluhih osoba koje razmišljaju o karijeri u kirurgiji.
14:36
There are almost no deaf surgeons anywhere.
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Skoro nigdje nema gluhih kirurga.
14:39
And this is really unheard of stuff, and this is all because of this technology.
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Ovo je doista nečuveno, sve zbog te tehnologije.
14:42
And the fact that he can play the piano like that
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A činjenica da on može svirati klavir -
14:44
is a testament to his brain.
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to je testament njegova mozga.
14:46
Truth of the matter is you can play the piano without a cochlear implant,
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Istina je da možete svirati klavir bez umjetne pužnice,
14:49
because all you have to do is press the keys at the right time.
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budući da je sve što morate pritisnuti tipke u točno vrijeme.
14:51
You don't actually have to hear it.
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Ne morate to čuti.
14:53
I know he doesn't hear well, because I've heard him do Karaoke.
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Ja znam da on ne čuje dobro, budući da sam ga slušao kako pjeva na karaokama.
14:56
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
14:58
And it's one of the most awful things --
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I to je jedna od najgroznijih stvari -
15:01
heartwarming, but awful.
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možda vam od toga bude toplo oko srca, ali je istovremeno grozno.
15:03
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
15:05
And so there is certainly a lot of hope,
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Dakle, postoji nada,
15:07
but there's a lot more that needs to be done.
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ali preostaje još mnogo truda.
15:09
So I just want to conclude with the following words.
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Zato želim zaključiti sljedećim riječima.
15:11
When it comes to restoration of hearing,
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Kada je u pitanju vraćanje sluha,
15:13
we have certainly come a long way, a remarkably long way.
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prešli smo dug put, zamjetno dug put.
15:16
And we have a much longer way to go
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Ali moramo prijeći puno duži put
15:19
when it comes to the idea of restoring perfect hearing.
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kad je u pitanju vraćanje savršenog sluha.
15:21
And let me tell you right now,
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I, dopustite da vam kažem,
15:23
it's fine that we would all be very happy with speech.
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u redu je što bismo svi bili sretni s govorom.
15:25
But I tell you, if we lost our hearing,
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Ali, reći ću vam, ako izgubimo sluh,
15:27
if anyone here suddenly lost your hearing,
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kad bi itko ovdje odjednom izgubio sluh,
15:29
you would want perfect hearing back.
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htio bi nazad svoj savršeni sluh.
15:31
You wouldn't want decent hearing, you would want perfect hearing.
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Ne biste htjeli pristojan sluh, htjeli biste savršen sluh.
15:34
Restoration of basic sensory function is critical.
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Obnova osnovne senzorne funkcije je kritična.
15:37
And I don't mean to understate
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Ne želim podcjenjivati
15:39
how important it is to restore basic function.
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važnost obnove osnovne funkcije.
15:41
But it's really restoration of the ability to perceive beauty
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Ali potpuna obnova mogućnosti spoznaje ljepote
15:44
where we can get inspiring.
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je ono što nas može inspirirati.
15:46
And I don't think that we should give up on beauty.
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I ne mislim da bismo trebali odustati od ljepote.
15:48
And I want to thank you for your time.
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I želim vam zahvaliti za vaše vrijeme.
15:50
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Charles Limb - ResearcherCharles Limb is a doctor and a musician who researches the way musical creativity works in the brain.
Why you should listen
Charles Limb is the Francis A. Sooy, MD Professor and Chief of Otology/Neurotology and Skull Base Surgery at the University of California, San Francisco, and he's a Faculty Member at the Peabody Conservatory of Music. He combines his two passions to study the way the brain creates and perceives music. He's a hearing specialist and surgeon at Johns Hopkins who performs cochlear implantations on patients who have lost their hearing. And he plays sax, piano and bass.
In search of a better understanding of how the mind perceives complex auditory stimuli such as music, he's been working with Allen Braun to look at the brains of improvising musicians and study what parts of the brain are involved in the kind of deep creativity that happens when a musician is really in the groove.
Read our Q&A about hip-hop studies with Charles Limb on the TED Blog >>
Plus our quick catchup Q&A at TEDMED 2011 -- including his top 5 songs of all time >>
Read the 2014 paper "Neural Substrates of Interactive Musical Improvisation: An fMRI Study of ‘Trading Fours’ in Jazz" >>
Charles Limb | Speaker | TED.com