TEDxGalway
Michel Dugon: The secrets of spider venom
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Spider venom can stop your heart within minutes, cause unimaginable pain -- and potentially save your life, says zoologist Michel Dugon. As a tarantula crawls up and down his arm, Dugon explains the medical properties of this potent toxin and how it might be used to produce the next generation of antibiotics.
Michel Dugon - Zoologist, venom researcher
Michel Dugon researches the potential of spider venom as a source of novel therapeutic agents. Full bio
Michel Dugon researches the potential of spider venom as a source of novel therapeutic agents. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
Well, hello.
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This is Sophie.
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It's all right, don't worry,
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everything's going to be fine.
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(Laughter)
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There are some people on the balcony
that are very happy to be up there now.
that are very happy to be up there now.
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(Laughter)
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So this is Sophie --
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not Sophia -- no, Sophie.
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She has a French name.
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And you wonder why?
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(Laughter)
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So Sophie, for most people,
is the incarnation of terror, really.
is the incarnation of terror, really.
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She's far too leggy, she's far too hairy,
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and she's far too big to ever be trusted.
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But to me, Sophie is a fantastic
feat of bioengineering.
feat of bioengineering.
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You see, Sophie is a testimony
to all those creatures
to all those creatures
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that have managed to survive
since the beginning of time;
since the beginning of time;
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all those animals
that have managed to have offspring
that have managed to have offspring
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generation after generation,
until this day.
until this day.
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You see, over one billion years ago,
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the first primitive cells
started to evolve on this planet.
started to evolve on this planet.
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It took spiders 430 million years
to become what they are now:
to become what they are now:
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one of the most versatile,
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one of the most diverse
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and one of the most evolved groups --
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(Laughter)
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of predators to ever walk this earth.
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It's actually quite sporty
to give a speech
to give a speech
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while wrangling a tarantula,
I have to say.
I have to say.
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(Laughter)
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So, we shouldn't forget that Sophie --
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and in fact, all of us --
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we all are a testimony
to all those ruthless battles
to all those ruthless battles
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that actually were won
consistently by all our ancestors,
consistently by all our ancestors,
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all our predecessors.
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In fact, all of us,
every single one of you,
every single one of you,
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is in fact an uninterrupted,
one-billion-years-old success story.
one-billion-years-old success story.
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And in the gaze of Sophie,
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that success is partly due
to what she has in her chest,
to what she has in her chest,
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just under her eyes.
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In there, she has a pair of venom glands
that are attached to a pair of fangs,
that are attached to a pair of fangs,
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and those fangs are folded into her mouth.
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So, without those fangs
and without this venom,
and without this venom,
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Sophie would have never
managed to survive.
managed to survive.
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Now, many animals have evolved
venom systems in order to survive.
venom systems in order to survive.
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Nowadays, any species of venomous snakes,
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any species of spider,
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any species of scorpion,
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has its own venom signature, if you will,
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made out of dozens, if not hundreds,
of chemical compounds.
of chemical compounds.
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And all of those compounds
have evolved purely for one purpose:
have evolved purely for one purpose:
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disable and, eventually, kill.
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Now, venom can actually act
in many different ways.
in many different ways.
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Venom, believe me, can make you feel
pains that you've never felt before.
pains that you've never felt before.
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Venom can also make
your heart stop within minutes,
your heart stop within minutes,
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or it can turn your blood into jelly.
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Venom can also paralyze you
almost instantly,
almost instantly,
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or it can just eat
your flesh away, like acid.
your flesh away, like acid.
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Now, all of these are pretty
gruesome stories, I know,
gruesome stories, I know,
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but, to me, it's kind of music to my ears.
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It's what I love.
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So why is that?
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Well, it's not because I'm a nutcase, no.
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(Laughter)
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Just imagine what we could do
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if we could harvest
all those super powerful compounds
all those super powerful compounds
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and use them to our benefit.
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That would be amazing, right?
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What if we could, I don't know,
produce new antibiotics with those venoms?
produce new antibiotics with those venoms?
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What if we could actually help people
that are suffering from diabetes
that are suffering from diabetes
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or hypertension?
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Well, in fact, all those applications
are already being developed
are already being developed
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by scientists just like me
everywhere around the world, as I speak.
everywhere around the world, as I speak.
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You see, hypertension is actually treated
regularly with a medication
regularly with a medication
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that has been developed from the toxin
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that is produced
by a South American viper.
by a South American viper.
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People that have type 2 diabetes
can be monitored using, actually,
can be monitored using, actually,
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the toxin produced
by a lizard from North America.
by a lizard from North America.
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And in hospitals all around the world,
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a new protocol is being developed
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to use a toxin from
a marine snail for anesthetics.
a marine snail for anesthetics.
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You see, venom is that kind of huge
library of chemical compounds
library of chemical compounds
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that are available to us,
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that are produced by hundreds
of thousands of live creatures.
of thousands of live creatures.
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And --
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Oh, sorry, she just wants
to go for a little walk.
to go for a little walk.
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(Laughter)
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Spiders alone are actually
thought to produce
thought to produce
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over 10 million different
kinds of compounds
kinds of compounds
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with potential therapeutic application.
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10 million.
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And do you know how many scientists
actually have managed to study so far?
actually have managed to study so far?
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About 0.01 percent.
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So that means that there is still
99.99 percent of all those compounds
99.99 percent of all those compounds
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that are out there, completely unknown,
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and are just waiting
to be harvested and tested,
to be harvested and tested,
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which is fantastic.
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You see, so far, scientists
have concentrated their efforts
have concentrated their efforts
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on very charismatic,
very dangerous animals --
very dangerous animals --
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vipers and cobras or scorpions
and black widows.
and black widows.
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But what about all those little bugs
that we actually have all around us?
that we actually have all around us?
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You know, like that spider
that lives behind your couch?
that lives behind your couch?
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You know, the one that decides
to just shoot through the floor
to just shoot through the floor
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when you're watching TV
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and freaks you out?
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Ah, you have that one at home as well.
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(Laughter)
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Well, what about those guys?
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Do they actually produce
some kind of amazing compound
some kind of amazing compound
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in their tiny body as well?
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Well, an honest answer a few months ago
would have been, "We have no clue."
would have been, "We have no clue."
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But now that my students and myself
have started to look into it,
have started to look into it,
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I can tell you those guys
actually are producing
actually are producing
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very, very interesting compounds.
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And I'm going to tell you
more about that in a second,
more about that in a second,
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but first, I would like to tell you more
about this "we are looking into it."
about this "we are looking into it."
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How does one look into it?
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Well, first of all, my students and I
have to capture a lot of spiders.
have to capture a lot of spiders.
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So how do we do that?
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Well, you'd be surprised.
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Once one starts to look,
one finds a lot of spiders.
one finds a lot of spiders.
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They actually live everywhere around us.
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Within a couple of hours,
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we are capable of catching maybe
two, three, four hundred spiders,
two, three, four hundred spiders,
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and we bring them back to my laboratory,
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and we house each of them
in its own individual home.
in its own individual home.
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And we give each of them a little meal.
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So now I know what you're thinking:
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"This guy's nuts.
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He has a spider B&B at work ..."
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(Laughter)
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No, no it's not exactly that,
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and it's not the kind of venture
I would advise you to start.
I would advise you to start.
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No, once we're done with that,
we wait a few days,
we wait a few days,
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and then, we anesthetize those spiders.
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Once they're asleep, we run a tiny
little electric current through their body
little electric current through their body
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and that contracts their venom glads.
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Then, under a microscope, we can see
a tiny little droplet of venom appearing.
a tiny little droplet of venom appearing.
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So we take a hair-thin
glass tube, a capillary,
glass tube, a capillary,
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and we collect that tiny droplet.
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Then, we take the spider
and we put it back into its home,
and we put it back into its home,
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and we start again with another one.
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Because spiders are completely
unharmed during the process,
unharmed during the process,
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it means that a few days later,
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once they've produced a little bit
of venom again and they've recovered,
of venom again and they've recovered,
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we can release them back into the wild.
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It takes literally hundreds of spiders
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to just produce the equivalent
of one raindrop of venom.
of one raindrop of venom.
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So that drop is incredibly precious to us.
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And once we have it, we freeze it,
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and we then pass it in a machine
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that will separate and purify every
chemical compound that is in that venom.
chemical compound that is in that venom.
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We're speaking about tiny amounts.
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We're actually speaking about a tenth
of a millionth of a liter of compound,
of a millionth of a liter of compound,
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but we can dilute that compound
several thousand times
several thousand times
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in its own volume of water
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and then test it against
a whole range of nasty stuff,
a whole range of nasty stuff,
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like cancer cells or bacteria.
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And this is when the very exciting
part of my job starts,
part of my job starts,
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because this is pure scientific gambling.
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It's kind of "Las Vegas, baby," for me.
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(Laughter)
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We spend so many hours, so much resources,
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so much time trying to get
those compounds ready,
those compounds ready,
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and then we test them.
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And most of the time, nothing happens.
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Nothing at all.
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But once in a while --
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just once in a while,
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we get that particular compound
that has absolutely amazing effects.
that has absolutely amazing effects.
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That's the jackpot.
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And when I'm saying that, actually,
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I should take out something
else from my pocket --
else from my pocket --
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be afraid, be very afraid.
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(Laughter)
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Now, in that little tube,
I have, actually, a very common spider.
I have, actually, a very common spider.
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The kind of spider
that you could find in your shed,
that you could find in your shed,
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that you could find in your basement
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or that you could find in your sewer pipe,
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understand: in your toilet.
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Now, that little spider happens to produce
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amazingly powerful
antimicrobial compounds.
antimicrobial compounds.
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It is even capable of killing
those drug-resistant bacteria
those drug-resistant bacteria
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that are giving us so much trouble,
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that are often making media headlines.
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Now, honestly, if I was living
in your sewer pipe,
in your sewer pipe,
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I'd produce antibiotics, too.
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(Laughter)
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But that little spider,
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may actually hold the answer
to a very, very serious concern we have.
to a very, very serious concern we have.
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You see, around the world,
every single day,
every single day,
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about 1,700 people die because of
antimicrobial-resistant infections.
antimicrobial-resistant infections.
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Multiply that by 365,
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and you're reaching the staggering number
of 700,000 people dead every single year
of 700,000 people dead every single year
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because antibiotics that were efficient
30, 20 or 10 years ago
30, 20 or 10 years ago
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are not capable of killing
very common bugs.
very common bugs.
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The reality is that the world
is running out of antibiotics,
is running out of antibiotics,
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and the pharmaceutical industry
does not have any answer,
does not have any answer,
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actually, any weapon
to address that concern.
to address that concern.
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You see, 30 years ago,
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you could consider that 10 to 15
new kinds of antibiotics
new kinds of antibiotics
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would hit the market
every couple of years.
every couple of years.
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Do you know how many of them
hit the market in the past five years?
hit the market in the past five years?
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Two.
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The reality is
that if we continue this way,
that if we continue this way,
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we are a few decades away
from being completely helpless
from being completely helpless
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in front of infections,
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just like we were before the discovery
of penicillin 90 years ago.
of penicillin 90 years ago.
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So you see, the reality
is that we are at war
is that we are at war
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against an invisible enemy
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that adapts and evolves
a lot quicker than we do.
a lot quicker than we do.
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And in that war,
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this little spider might be
one of our greatest secret weapons.
one of our greatest secret weapons.
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Just a half a millionth
of a liter of a venom,
of a liter of a venom,
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diluted 10,000 times,
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is still capable of killing most bacteria
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that are resistant
to any other kind of antibiotics.
to any other kind of antibiotics.
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It's absolutely amazing.
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Every time I repeat
this experiment, I just wonder:
this experiment, I just wonder:
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How is that possible?
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How many other possibilities and secrets
do the siblings actually have?
do the siblings actually have?
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What kind of wonderful product
can we really find, if we care to look?
can we really find, if we care to look?
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So when people ask me, "Are bugs
really the future of therapeutic drugs?"
really the future of therapeutic drugs?"
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my answer is, "Well, I really believe
that they do hold some key answers."
that they do hold some key answers."
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And we need to really give ourselves
the means to investigate them.
the means to investigate them.
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So when you head back home later tonight,
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and you see that spider
in the corner of your room ...
in the corner of your room ...
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(Laughter)
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don't squash it.
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(Laughter)
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Just look at it, admire it
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and remember that it is
an absolutely fantastic creature,
an absolutely fantastic creature,
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a pure product of evolution,
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and that maybe that very spider,
one day, will hold the answer,
one day, will hold the answer,
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will hold the key
to your very own survival.
to your very own survival.
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You see, she's not so insignificant
anymore now, is she?
anymore now, is she?
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(Laughter)
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Thank you.
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(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Michel Dugon - Zoologist, venom researcherMichel Dugon researches the potential of spider venom as a source of novel therapeutic agents.
Why you should listen
Michel Dugon runs the Venom Systems and Proteomics Lab and teaches zoology at the National University of Ireland Galway. His research focuses on the evolution of venom systems and on the potential of arthropod venom as a source of novel therapeutic agents. After a six-year stint chasing venomous creatures in the jungles of South East Asia, Dugon published extensively on the evolution of venom systems while pursuing a PhD in Evolutionary Developmental Biology. He was awarded the 2015 Irish National Teaching Award in Higher Education and the 2017 Ryan Award for Innovation. Dugon is currently working on developing the VIDAA network (Venom Investigations for the Development of Antimicrobial Agents) in collaboration with Irish, French and Belgian researchers.
As the founder and director of the science outreach Eco Explorers, Dugon dedicates a sizable amount of his time to promoting ecological awareness in the media and in schools throughout Ireland. Dr Dugon's work has been featured on national and international networks, including RTE, the BBC, Euronews and SKY.
Michel Dugon | Speaker | TED.com