TEDxPaloAlto
Leila Takayama: What's it like to be a robot?
Leila Takayama: 机器人到底是什么样的
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我们已经生活在一个充满机器人的世界了：比如说洗碗机和恒温器之类的机器，它们已经完全融入我们的生活以至于我们不会将它们称为机器人。未来的机器人会变成什么样子呢？社会科学家Leila Takayama分享了一些在设计人与机器人交互界面过程中的独特挑战以及对创造机器人世界的探索如何引导我们更好的理解我们自己
Leila Takayama - Social scientist
Leila Takayama conducts research on human-robot interaction. Full bio
Leila Takayama conducts research on human-robot interaction. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
You only get one chance
to make a first impression,
to make a first impression,
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形成第一印象只有一次机会，
00:15
and that's true if you're a robot
as well as if you're a person.
as well as if you're a person.
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无论对人类还是对机器人都是如此。
00:18
The first time that I met
one of these robots
one of these robots
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我第一次看到机器人
00:21
was at a place
called Willow Garage in 2008.
called Willow Garage in 2008.
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是2008年在一个叫做
Willow Garage的地方。
Willow Garage的地方。
00:24
When I went to visit there,
my host walked me into the building
my host walked me into the building
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当我到那的时候，
主人邀请我进去
主人邀请我进去
00:27
and we met this little guy.
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我见到了这个小东西。
00:29
He was rolling into the hallway,
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他在走廊上闲逛，
00:30
came up to me, sat there,
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向我这个方向走来，停在那，
00:32
stared blankly past me,
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盯着我好像我不存在，
00:35
did nothing for a while,
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它待了一会儿，
00:36
rapidly spun his head around 180 degrees
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快速地把头转了180度，
00:38
and then ran away.
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然后走开了。
00:40
And that was not a great first impression.
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这可不是个好的第一印象。
00:42
The thing that I learned
about robots that day
about robots that day
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我那天才知道
00:44
is that they kind of do their own thing,
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这些机器人只做他们自己的事情，
00:46
and they're not totally aware of us.
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完全没有意识到我们的存在。
00:49
And I think as we're experimenting
with these possible robot futures,
with these possible robot futures,
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而且我认为，随着我们对未来
可实现机器人的实验的进行，
可实现机器人的实验的进行，
00:52
we actually end up learning
a lot more about ourselves
a lot more about ourselves
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我们不光是在研究这些机器
00:54
as opposed to just these machines.
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我们对自己的了解也会越来越深刻。
00:56
And what I learned that day
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另外，那天我也意识到，
00:58
was that I had pretty high
expectations for this little dude.
expectations for this little dude.
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我对这些小东西有着很高的期待。
01:01
He was not only supposed to be able
to navigate the physical world,
to navigate the physical world,
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他不仅应该存在于现实生活，
01:04
but also be able
to navigate my social world --
to navigate my social world --
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更应该存在于我的社交领域--
01:07
he's in my space; it's a personal robot.
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在我的社交空间；它是一个人。
01:09
wWhy didn't it understand me?
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为什么他不能理解我？
01:11
My host explained to me,
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我的主人跟我解释说，
01:12
"Well, the robot is trying
to get from point A to point B,
to get from point A to point B,
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“这个机器人正试图从A点移动到B点，
01:16
and you were an obstacle in his way,
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你挡住他的路了，
01:17
so he had to replan his path,
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所以他不得不重新规划路线，
01:19
figure out where to go,
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弄清楚该往哪儿走，
01:21
and then get there some other way,"
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然后找到另一条路径，”
01:22
which was actually
not a very efficient thing to do.
not a very efficient thing to do.
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这明显不是个高效的办法。
01:25
If that robot had figured out
that I was a person, not a chair,
that I was a person, not a chair,
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如果这个机器人知道我是个人，
而不是把椅子，
而不是把椅子，
01:28
and that I was willing
to get out of its way
to get out of its way
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如果我挡到它的路，
01:30
if it was trying to get somewhere,
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我会愿意给他让路，
01:32
then it actually
would have been more efficient
would have been more efficient
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那么这是让他到达B点的
01:34
at getting its job done
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更有效的办法，
01:35
if it had bothered
to notice that I was a human
to notice that I was a human
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只要它能意识到我是个人，
01:38
and that I have different affordances
than things like chairs and walls do.
than things like chairs and walls do.
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我和椅子或者墙相比是不一样的。
01:41
You know, we tend to think of these robots
as being from outer space
as being from outer space
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我们总是认为机器人要么来自外太空
01:45
and from the future
and from science fiction,
and from science fiction,
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来自未来或者科幻小说。
01:47
and while that could be true,
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虽然这些也许是真的，
01:48
I'd actually like to argue
that robots are here today,
that robots are here today,
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我今天想论证的是机器人就在这里，
01:51
and they live and work
amongst us right now.
amongst us right now.
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此时此刻他们就跟我们一起生活一起工作。
01:54
These are two robots that live in my home.
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这是我家的两个机器人。
01:57
They vacuum the floors
and they cut the grass
and they cut the grass
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他们每天都
01:59
every single day,
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扫地，除草，
02:00
which is more than I would do
if I actually had time to do these tasks,
if I actually had time to do these tasks,
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他们做这些事比我做得更快，
02:04
and they probably
do it better than I would, too.
do it better than I would, too.
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也比我做得更好。
02:06
This one actually takes care of my kitty.
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这个机器人专门照顾我的小猫咪。
02:09
Every single time
he uses the box, it cleans it,
he uses the box, it cleans it,
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每次猫咪便便后，它都会清理掉，
02:11
which is not something I'm willing to do,
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我可不愿意干这事儿，
02:13
and it actually makes
his life better as well as mine.
his life better as well as mine.
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猫咪和我的生活都变得更舒服了。
02:16
And while we call these robot products --
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当我们称呼这些机器人产品
02:18
it's a "robot vacuum cleaner,
it's a robot lawnmower,
it's a robot lawnmower,
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“这是一个真空吸尘器机器人，
这是个除草剂机器人，
这是个除草剂机器人，
02:21
it's a robot littler box,"
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这是个猫马桶机器人，“
02:22
I think there's actually a bunch
of other robots hiding in plain sight
of other robots hiding in plain sight
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我想在日常生活中有大量的机器人
02:27
that have just become so darn useful
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已经变得特别有用
02:28
and so darn mundane
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特别平常了
02:30
that we call them things
like, "dishwasher," right?
like, "dishwasher," right?
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以至于我们不会称呼它们机器人，
比如“洗碗机”，对吧？
比如“洗碗机”，对吧？
02:32
They get new names.
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他们有了新名字。
02:34
They don't get called robot anymore
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他们不再被称作机器人了
因为他们在我们生活中发挥特定作用了。
02:35
because they actually
serve a purpose in our lives.
serve a purpose in our lives.
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类似地，还有恒温器，对吧？
02:38
Similarly, a thermostat, right?
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我一些研究机器人的朋友
02:39
I know my robotics friends out there
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有可能会对我称呼这玩意儿机器人
表示不满
表示不满
02:41
are probably cringing
at me calling this a robot,
at me calling this a robot,
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但是它有自己的任务。
02:44
but it has a goal.
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02:45
Its goal is to make my house
66 degrees Fahrenheit,
66 degrees Fahrenheit,
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它的任务是让我的房子保持66华氏度，
02:48
and it senses the world.
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它能感知世界。
02:49
It knows it's a little bit cold,
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它能知道，周围有点冷了
02:51
it makes a plan and then
it acts on the physical world.
it acts on the physical world.
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然后它提高温度，
然后周围的气温就改变了。
然后周围的气温就改变了。
02:53
It's robotics.
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这是机器人学。
02:55
Even if it might not
look like Rosie the Robot,
look like Rosie the Robot,
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即使它不是像是“杰森一家”中
罗茜那样的机器女仆，
罗茜那样的机器女仆，
02:57
it's doing something
that's really useful in my life
that's really useful in my life
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在我的生活中它也很有用。
03:00
so I don't have to take care
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所以我根本不用
03:02
of turning the temperature
up and down myself.
up and down myself.
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亲自调节我周围的气温。
03:04
And I think these systems
live and work amongst us now,
live and work amongst us now,
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并且我认为这些系统
和我们一起生活、工作
和我们一起生活、工作
03:08
and not only are these systems
living amongst us
living amongst us
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这些设备不仅仅和我们共存，
03:10
but you are probably
a robot operator, too.
a robot operator, too.
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我们也操控着这些设备。
03:13
When you drive your car,
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当你开车时，
03:14
it feels like you are operating machinery.
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你就像正在操作一个机器。
03:17
You are also going
from point A to point B,
from point A to point B,
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你也正要从A点到B点去，
03:19
but your car probably has power steering,
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但是你的车可能有动力转向系统，
03:22
it probably has automatic braking systems,
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可能还有防锁死刹车系统，
它可能有一个自动变速器
甚至可能是自适应巡航控制。
甚至可能是自适应巡航控制。
03:24
it might have an automatic transmission
and maybe even adaptive cruise control.
and maybe even adaptive cruise control.
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03:28
And while it might not be
a fully autonomous car,
a fully autonomous car,
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但它可能不是个全自动车，
03:31
it has bits of autonomy,
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它有一些自主能力，
03:32
and they're so useful
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这很有用，
03:34
and they make us drive safer,
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让我们开车更安全，
03:36
and we just sort of feel
like they're invisible-in-use, right?
like they're invisible-in-use, right?
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我们无意中就在使用他们，对吧？
03:39
So when you're driving your car,
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当你正在开车时，
03:41
you should just feel like
you're going from one place to another.
you're going from one place to another.
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你觉得你只是
从一个地方到另一个地方去,
从一个地方到另一个地方去,
而不觉得这是一件难事,
03:44
It doesn't feel like it's this big thing
that you have to deal with and operate
that you have to deal with and operate
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你必须处理和操作和使用这些控件，
03:48
and use these controls
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因为我们花了很长时间学习驾驶
03:49
because we spent so long
learning how to drive
learning how to drive
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03:51
that they've become
extensions of ourselves.
extensions of ourselves.
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他们已经变成我们的左膀右臂。
03:54
When you park that car
in that tight little garage space,
in that tight little garage space,
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当你在一个狭小的车库停车时，
03:57
you know where your corners are.
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你知道角落在哪儿。
03:58
And when you drive a rental car
that maybe you haven't driven before,
that maybe you haven't driven before,
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当你开着一辆以前从没开过的租来的车，
04:02
it takes some time
to get used to your new robot body.
to get used to your new robot body.
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你需要一些时间去熟悉这个陌生的车。
04:05
And this is also true for people
who operate other types of robots,
who operate other types of robots,
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对于其他种类的机器也是一样的，
04:09
so I'd like to share with you
a few stories about that.
a few stories about that.
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所以我想跟你们分享一些故事。
04:12
Dealing with the problem
of remote collaboration.
of remote collaboration.
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一些解决远程协作问题的故事。
04:14
So, at Willow Garage
I had a coworker named Dallas,
I had a coworker named Dallas,
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在Willow Garage我有个同事叫Dallas，
04:17
and Dallas looked like this.
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Dallas看起来就像这样。
04:18
He worked from his home in Indiana
in our company in California.
in our company in California.
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他在印第安纳州的家中
与我们加利福尼亚州的员工一起工作。
与我们加利福尼亚州的员工一起工作。
04:22
He was a voice in a box
on the table in most of our meetings,
on the table in most of our meetings,
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在很多会议上，
他只是语音盒中的声音。
他只是语音盒中的声音。
04:25
which was kind of OK
except that, you know,
except that, you know,
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这些会议有时候很和谐，
除非我们正在激烈讨论
而且不喜欢他说的，
而且不喜欢他说的，
04:28
if we had a really heated debate
and we didn't like what he was saying,
and we didn't like what he was saying,
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我们可能就得关掉语音盒。
04:31
we might just hang up on him.
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（笑声）
04:32
(Laughter)
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会议结束后我们会再开个会
04:33
Then we might have a meeting
after that meeting
after that meeting
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当他不在的时候
04:36
and actually make the decisions
in the hallway afterwards
in the hallway afterwards
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在走廊上做决定。
04:38
when he wasn't there anymore.
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所以这对他不太友好。
04:40
So that wasn't so great for him.
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作为一个在Willlow的机器人公司，
04:41
And as a robotics company at Willow,
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我们周围遍布着一些
多余的机器人零部件,
多余的机器人零部件,
04:43
we had some extra
robot body parts laying around,
robot body parts laying around,
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Dallas和他的伙计Curt把这些组装起来，
04:46
so Dallas and his buddy Curt
put together this thing,
put together this thing,
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看起来有点像是卡在轮子上的 Skype，
04:48
which looks kind of
like Skype on a stick on wheels,
like Skype on a stick on wheels,
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看起来像是个无聊的劣质玩具，
04:51
which seems like a techy, silly toy,
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但是它确实是我见过的远程协作中
04:53
but really it's probably
one of the most powerful tools
one of the most powerful tools
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最有用的工具之一了。
04:56
that I've seen ever made
for remote collaboration.
for remote collaboration.
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所以现在，如果我没有回复
Dallas邮件中的问题，
Dallas邮件中的问题，
04:59
So now, if I didn't answer
Dallas' email question,
Dallas' email question,
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05:02
he could literally roll into my office,
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他就可以滚到我的办公室里，
05:04
block my doorway
and ask me the question again --
and ask me the question again --
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挡住我的门，再问我一遍--
05:07
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
直到我回答它。
05:08
until I answered it.
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我也不会关掉它，对吧？
那有点粗鲁。
那有点粗鲁。
05:09
And I'm not going to turn him off, right?
That's kind of rude.
That's kind of rude.
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这不仅可以用于一对一的交流，
05:12
Not only was it good
for these one-on-one communications,
for these one-on-one communications,
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也能让你在公司的全体会议中出席。
05:15
but also for just showing up
at the company all-hands meeting.
at the company all-hands meeting.
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你坐在椅子上，
05:18
Getting your butt in that chair
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05:20
and showing people that you're present
and committed to your project
and committed to your project
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让别人知道你的存在以及对项目的贡献
05:23
is a big deal
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这很重要，
05:24
and can help remote collaboration a ton.
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而且也有助于远程协作。
05:26
We saw this over the period
of months and then years,
of months and then years,
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我们在经年累月的过程中看到，
05:29
not only at our company
but at others, too.
but at others, too.
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改变不仅发生在我们公司，
也发生在其他公司。
也发生在其他公司。
这些系统最好的地方在于
05:32
The best thing that can happen
with these systems
with these systems
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它能让我觉得你就在那儿。
05:35
is that it starts to feel
like you're just there.
like you're just there.
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那就是你，就是你的身体。
05:37
It's just you, it's just your body,
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所以人们开始给这些东西个人空间。
05:39
and so people actually start
to give these things personal space.
to give these things personal space.
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05:42
So when you're having a stand-up meeting,
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当你在开会的时候，
人们就会站在这周围，
05:44
people will stand around the space
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就像你亲自出席一样。
05:45
just as they would
if you were there in person.
if you were there in person.
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这情况挺好的直到有发生一些插曲。
05:48
That's great until
there's breakdowns and it's not.
there's breakdowns and it's not.
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当人们第一次见到这东西时，
05:50
People, when they first see these robots,
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05:52
are like, "Wow, where's the components?
There must be a camera over there,"
There must be a camera over there,"
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会说，“哇，别的零件在哪儿？
应该有一个相机的，”
应该有一个相机的，”
然后显示屏中的脸就会被乱戳一气
05:56
and they start poking your face.
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“你声音太低了，
我要提高你的音量，”
我要提高你的音量，”
05:58
"You're talking too softly,
I'm going to turn up your volume,"
I'm going to turn up your volume,"
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就像一个同事向你走来，和你说话，
06:00
which is like having a coworker
walk up to you and say,
walk up to you and say,
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"你声音太低了，
我要抬起你的脸。"
我要抬起你的脸。"
06:03
"You're speaking too softly,
I'm going to turn up your face."
I'm going to turn up your face."
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这行为有点尴尬而且不合适，
06:06
That's awkward and not OK,
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06:07
and so we end up having to build
these new social norms
these new social norms
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因此, 我们最终不得不在使用这些系统时
06:10
around using these systems.
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建立新的协约。
同理，当你觉得它像你的身体了，
06:12
Similarly, as you start
feeling like it's your body,
feeling like it's your body,
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06:16
you start noticing things like,
"Oh, my robot is kind of short."
"Oh, my robot is kind of short."
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你就开始注意到一些事情，
像是“哦，我的机器人有点矮。”
像是“哦，我的机器人有点矮。”
Dallas会对我说这些事，
他有六英尺高，
他有六英尺高，
06:19
Dallas would say things to me --
he was six-foot tall --
he was six-foot tall --
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我们会带他的机器人
参加鸡尾酒派对之类的，
参加鸡尾酒派对之类的，
06:22
and we would take him via robot
to cocktail parties and things like that,
to cocktail parties and things like that,
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就像你们一样，
06:26
as you do,
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这个机器人大概有五英尺高，
跟我差不多高。
跟我差不多高。
06:27
and the robot was about five-foot-tall,
which is close to my height.
which is close to my height.
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06:30
And he would tell me,
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他会跟我说，
06:31
"You know, people are not
really looking at me.
really looking at me.
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“你知道吗，人们都不看我。
06:34
I feel like I'm just looking
at this sea of shoulders,
at this sea of shoulders,
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我感觉我只看到一堆堆的肩膀，
所以，我们需要一个更高机器人。”
06:37
and it's just -- we need a taller robot."
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我告诉他，
06:39
And I told him,
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“额，不行。”
06:40
"Um, no.
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你今天要感受一下我的日常。
06:41
You get to walk in my shoes for today.
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06:43
You get to see what it's like
to be on the shorter end of the spectrum."
to be on the shorter end of the spectrum."
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你可以看到一个矮子眼中的世界。”
06:47
And he actually ended up building
a lot of empathy for that experience,
a lot of empathy for that experience,
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他后来从这次经历中
获得了很多感受，
获得了很多感受，
对他影响很大。
06:50
which was kind of great.
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当他亲自来找我的时候，
06:51
So when he'd come visit in person,
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他不会再站在我旁边对我说话，
06:53
he no longer stood over me
as he was talking to me,
as he was talking to me,
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他会坐下来，直视着我和我说话，
06:56
he would sit down
and talk to me eye to eye,
and talk to me eye to eye,
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这是件很美好的事情。
06:58
which was kind of a beautiful thing.
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06:59
So we actually decided
to look at this in the laboratory
to look at this in the laboratory
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所以我们决定在实验室里观察
07:02
and see what others kinds of differences
things like robot height would make.
things like robot height would make.
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不同机器人的身高
会造成其他什么不同。
会造成其他什么不同。
07:06
And so half of the people in our study
used a shorter robot,
used a shorter robot,
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在我们的研究中,
一半的人使用了较矮的机器人,
一半的人使用了较矮的机器人,
一半的人使用较高的机器人。
07:09
half of the people in our study
used a taller robot
used a taller robot
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我们发现同一个人，
07:11
and we actually found
that the exact same person
that the exact same person
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07:13
who has the exact same body
and says the exact same things as someone,
and says the exact same things as someone,
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使用外观完全相同的机器人，
并且和其他人汇报相同的事情时，
并且和其他人汇报相同的事情时，
通过身高较高的机器人述说的话
07:17
is more persuasive
and perceived as being more credible
and perceived as being more credible
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会更加令人信服以及让人觉得可靠。
07:19
if they're in a taller robot form.
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这不符合常理，
07:21
It makes no rational sense,
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07:23
but that's why we study psychology.
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所以这就是我们学习心理学的原因。
07:25
And really, you know,
the way that Cliff Nass would put this
the way that Cliff Nass would put this
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事实上, 你知道, Cliff Nass的风格是,
07:28
is that we're having to deal
with these new technologies
with these new technologies
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我们不得不接受这些新技术,
07:31
despite the fact
that we have very old brains.
that we have very old brains.
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即使我们的观念已经过时。
07:33
Human psychology is not changing
at the same speed that tech is
at the same speed that tech is
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人类心理学认知没有技术更新的那么快，
所以我们总是在追赶，
07:36
and so we're always playing catch-up,
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试图去理解这个
07:38
trying to make sense of this world
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东西到处乱跑的世界。
07:40
where these autonomous things
are running around.
are running around.
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通常, 是人在说, 不是这个机器, 对吗？
07:42
Usually, things that talk are people,
not machines, right?
not machines, right?
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所以我们把这个东西只是看成机器,
07:45
And so we breathe a lot of meaning
into things like just height of a machine,
into things like just height of a machine,
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07:50
not a person,
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而不是人，
07:51
and attribute that
to the person using the system.
to the person using the system.
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把它看成使用这个东西的人。
我认为，当你想到机器人学，
07:55
You know, this, I think,
is really important
is really important
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这才是真正重要的。
07:57
when you're thinking about robotics.
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这不是要重塑人类，
07:59
It's not so much about reinventing humans,
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而是要搞清楚怎样去提升人类，
对吧？
对吧？
08:01
it's more about figuring out
how we extend ourselves, right?
how we extend ourselves, right?
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08:04
And we end up using things
in ways that are sort of surprising.
in ways that are sort of surprising.
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我们最终会用一些令人惊讶的方式
来使用这些东西。
来使用这些东西。
08:07
So these guys can't play pool
because the robots don't have arms,
because the robots don't have arms,
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这些家伙不能玩台球
因为机器人没有手臂
因为机器人没有手臂
但是他们可以骚扰玩台球的人
08:11
but they can heckle the guys
who are playing pool
who are playing pool
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这有助于团队的团结，
08:14
and that can be an important thing
for team bonding,
for team bonding,
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很纯粹的作用。
08:17
which is kind of neat.
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08:18
People who get really good
at operating these systems
at operating these systems
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那些能熟练操作这些系统的人
甚至会创造一些新的游戏,
08:21
will even do things
like make up new games,
like make up new games,
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就像午夜机器人足球，
08:23
like robot soccer
in the middle of the night,
in the middle of the night,
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来回踢易拉罐。
08:25
pushing the trash cans around.
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但是并不是所有人都能适应。
08:26
But not everyone's good.
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08:28
A lot of people have trouble
operating these systems.
operating these systems.
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很多人在运行这些系统时遇到了问题。
08:30
This is actually a guy
who logged into the robot
who logged into the robot
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有一个人登陆上了自己的机器人
机器人的眼球向左边转了90度。
08:33
and his eyeball was turned
90 degrees to the left.
90 degrees to the left.
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但他不知道，
08:35
He didn't know that,
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所以他在办公室里嗨起来了，
08:36
so he ended up just bashing
around the office,
around the office,
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跑到人们的办公桌上,
让场面变得超级尴尬,
让场面变得超级尴尬,
08:39
running into people's desks,
getting super embarrassed,
getting super embarrassed,
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还哈哈大笑，他的音量太高了。
08:41
laughing about it --
his volume was way too high.
his volume was way too high.
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在照片中的这个人告诉我，
08:44
And this guy here
in the image is telling me,
in the image is telling me,
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“我们需要一个机器人静音按钮。”
08:46
"We need a robot mute button."
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08:48
And by that what he really meant
was we don't want it to be so disruptive.
was we don't want it to be so disruptive.
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他真正的意思是
我们不想让它变得如此混乱。
我们不想让它变得如此混乱。
08:51
So as a robotics company,
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所以作为一个机器人公司，
08:53
we added some obstacle
avoidance to the system.
avoidance to the system.
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我们在系统中增加了一些避障装置。
一个小的激光测距仪，
可以检测到障碍，
可以检测到障碍，
08:56
It got a little laser range finder
that could see the obstacles,
that could see the obstacles,
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如果我作为一个主人说,
撞向一个椅子,
撞向一个椅子,
08:59
and if I as a robot operator
try to say, run into a chair,
try to say, run into a chair,
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09:02
it wouldn't let me,
it would just plan a path around,
it would just plan a path around,
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它不会照做，它会在周围找一条路径，
09:04
which seems like a good idea.
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这看起来很好。
09:06
People did hit fewer obstacles
using that system, obviously,
using that system, obviously,
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很显然，配有该系统的机器人
撞到的障碍物更少,
撞到的障碍物更少,
09:09
but actually, for some of the people,
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但是实际上，对某些人来说，
09:11
it took them a lot longer
to get through our obstacle course,
to get through our obstacle course,
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他们花了更长的时间
才能适应机器人的避障功能，
才能适应机器人的避障功能，
我们想知道其中的原因。
09:14
and we wanted to know why.
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09:17
It turns out that there's
this important human dimension --
this important human dimension --
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原来，有一个重要的人格因素--
一个叫做内外控倾向的人格因素，
09:20
a personality dimension
called locus of control,
called locus of control,
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09:22
and people who have
a strong internal locus of control,
a strong internal locus of control,
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拥有强内控倾向的人
09:25
they need to be the masters
of their own destiny --
of their own destiny --
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他们需要做自己命运的主人--
09:28
really don't like giving up control
to an autonomous system --
to an autonomous system --
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特别不喜欢放弃对
一个自主系统的控制--
一个自主系统的控制--
以至于他们会反抗这些自主行为；
09:31
so much so that they will
fight the autonomy;
fight the autonomy;
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09:34
"If I want to hit that chair,
I'm going to hit that chair."
I'm going to hit that chair."
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"如果我想撞上那把椅子,
那我就要去撞倒那把椅子。“
那我就要去撞倒那把椅子。“
09:37
And so they would actually suffer
from having that autonomous assistance,
from having that autonomous assistance,
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因此,
他们会因为存在辅助系统而感到难受
他们会因为存在辅助系统而感到难受
知道这件事对我们来说很重要
09:40
which is an important thing for us to know
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09:43
as we're building increasingly
autonomous, say, cars, right?
autonomous, say, cars, right?
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因为我们正在提高机器的自主性，
比如汽车，对吧？
比如汽车，对吧？
09:46
How are different people going
to grapple with that loss of control?
to grapple with that loss of control?
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不同的人如何去应对
机器控制权的减少？
机器控制权的减少？
09:50
It's going to be different
depending on human dimensions.
depending on human dimensions.
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这取决于个体的不同。
09:53
We can't treat humans
as if we're just one monolithic thing.
as if we're just one monolithic thing.
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我们不能把整个人类混为一谈。
09:57
We vary by personality, by culture,
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我们的性格，文化不同
09:59
we even vary by emotional state
moment to moment,
moment to moment,
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甚至每分钟都有不同的情绪状态，
我们应该考虑每一种人格，
10:02
and being able to design these systems,
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10:04
these human-robot interaction systems,
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从而设计这些系统，
10:06
we need to take into account
the human dimensions,
the human dimensions,
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人机交互系统，
而不仅仅关注科学技术。
10:09
not just the technological ones.
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10:11
Along with a sense of control
also comes a sense of responsibility.
also comes a sense of responsibility.
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如果你操作一个这样的机器人，
你除了控制权还要有责任感。
10:15
And if you were a robot operator
using one of these systems,
using one of these systems,
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这是界面的样子。
10:18
this is what the interface
would look like.
would look like.
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它有点像电子游戏，
10:20
It looks a little bit like a video game,
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10:22
which can be good because
that's very familiar to people,
that's very familiar to people,
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很棒, 因为人们都很熟悉，
但是它也可能是坏处，
10:25
but it can also be bad
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10:27
because it makes people feel
like it's a video game.
like it's a video game.
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因为它让人觉得它就是个电子游戏。
我们有一群孩子在斯坦福大学
操作这个系统
操作这个系统
10:29
We had a bunch of kids
over at Stanford play with the system
over at Stanford play with the system
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在我们公司旁边的Menlo公园
驱动机器人，
驱动机器人，
10:32
and drive the robot
around our office in Menlo Park,
around our office in Menlo Park,
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孩子们开始说，
10:34
and the kids started saying things like,
256
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打中那个人得10分，那个20分。
10:36
"10 points if you hit that guy over there.
20 points for that one."
20 points for that one."
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他们会在走廊里追那些人。
10:40
And they would
chase them down the hallway.
chase them down the hallway.
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（笑声）
我告诉他们，”嗯，那些是真人。
10:42
(Laughter)
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1016
10:43
I told them, "Um, those are real people.
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如果你们打他们的话
他们会流血会感到疼痛。”
他们会流血会感到疼痛。”
10:45
They're actually going to bleed
and feel pain if you hit them."
and feel pain if you hit them."
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他们说，“好吧，知道了。”
10:48
And they'd be like, "OK, got it."
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10:50
But five minutes later,
they would be like,
they would be like,
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但是五分钟后，他们又会开始，
10:52
"20 points for that guy over there,
he just looks like he needs to get hit."
he just looks like he needs to get hit."
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“打中那个人20分，
他看起来很欠扁。”
他看起来很欠扁。”
这有点像“安德的游戏", 对吧？
10:55
It's a little bit
like "Ender's Game," right?
like "Ender's Game," right?
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另一边有一个真实的世界
10:58
There is a real world on that other side
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10:59
and I think it's our responsibility
as people designing these interfaces
as people designing these interfaces
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我认为作为设计人机交互界面的人，
我们的责任是
我们的责任是
11:03
to help people remember
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帮助人们记住
11:04
that there's real consequences
to their actions
to their actions
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他们的行为是有后果的
11:06
and to feel a sense of responsibility
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而且当他们操作
自主性越来越高的东西时，
自主性越来越高的东西时，
他们要有一种责任感
11:09
when they're operating
these increasingly autonomous things.
these increasingly autonomous things.
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这些事例能对未来的机器人实验发展
11:13
These are kind of a great example
272
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11:16
of experimenting with one
possible robotic future,
possible robotic future,
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提供很大帮助，
11:19
and I think it's pretty cool
that we can extend ourselves
that we can extend ourselves
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我认为我们能够让机器变为我们的扩展
研究如何将一个机器
11:23
and learn about the ways
that we extend ourselves
that we extend ourselves
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变为我们的化身
11:25
into these machines
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11:26
while at the same time
being able to express our humanity
being able to express our humanity
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同时能够表达我们的人性和个性
是很酷的事。
11:29
and our personality.
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我们也会为其他人考虑
11:30
We also build empathy for others
279
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11:32
in terms of being
shorter, taller, faster, slower,
shorter, taller, faster, slower,
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根据人的高矮，走路快慢
甚至手臂残疾，
11:35
and maybe even armless,
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这很美妙。
11:37
which is kind of neat.
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11:38
We also build empathy
for the robots themselves.
for the robots themselves.
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我们也会为机器人着想。
11:41
This is one of my favorite robots.
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这是我最喜欢的机器人之一。
11:42
It's called the Tweenbot.
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它叫Tweenbot。
11:44
And this guy has a little flag that says,
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这家伙有一个小旗，上面写着
11:46
"I'm trying to get
to this intersection in Manhattan,"
to this intersection in Manhattan,"
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”我想去曼哈顿的十字路口，“
它很可爱，向前滚动
11:48
and it's cute and rolls
forward, that's it.
forward, that's it.
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它并不知道如何去建立地图，
也不知道怎么样去看世界，
也不知道怎么样去看世界，
11:51
It doesn't know how to build a map,
it doesn't know how to see the world,
it doesn't know how to see the world,
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它只是寻求帮助。
11:55
it just asks for help.
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最美妙之处在于，
11:56
The nice thing about people
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11:57
is that it can actually depend
upon the kindness of strangers.
upon the kindness of strangers.
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它可以依赖于陌生人的善良。
12:00
It did make it across the park
to the other side of Manhattan --
to the other side of Manhattan --
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它最后真的穿过公园
到了曼哈顿的另一边--
到了曼哈顿的另一边--
12:04
which is pretty great --
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这太棒了--
就因为人们愿意把它拾起来
给它指明正确的方向。
给它指明正确的方向。
12:06
just because people would pick it up
and point it in the right direction.
and point it in the right direction.
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（笑声）
这很棒，不是吗？
12:09
(Laughter)
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12:10
And that's great, right?
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我们试图建立一个人机的世界
12:11
We're trying to build
this human-robot world
this human-robot world
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12:14
in which we can coexist
and collaborate with one another,
and collaborate with one another,
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人与机器可以共存，合作，
12:17
and we don't need to be fully autonomous
and just do things on our own.
and just do things on our own.
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我们不需要各自为政，
完全独立在自己的领域。
完全独立在自己的领域。
确切说我们应该一起合作。
12:21
We actually do things together.
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要想实现人机社会，
12:22
And to make that happen,
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我们实际上需要其他人的帮助
比如艺术家，设计师，
比如艺术家，设计师，
12:24
we actually need help from people
like the artists and the designers,
like the artists and the designers,
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政策制定者，法律学者，
12:27
the policy makers, the legal scholars,
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心理学家，社会学家，人类学家--
12:29
psychologists, sociologists,
anthropologists --
anthropologists --
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我们需要来自各方的力量，
12:31
we need more perspectives in the room
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如果我们要做Stu Card所说的，
我们应该做的事情--
我们应该做的事情--
12:33
if we're going to do the thing
that Stu Card says we should do,
that Stu Card says we should do,
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12:36
which is invent the future
that we actually want to live in.
that we actually want to live in.
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创造我们想要的未来。
我认为我们可以一起为了
12:40
And I think we can continue to experiment
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12:43
with these different
robotic futures together,
robotic futures together,
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未来的机器人世界不断尝试，
通过这样，
我们最终会更多地了解我们自己。
我们最终会更多地了解我们自己。
12:45
and in doing so, we will end up
learning a lot more about ourselves.
learning a lot more about ourselves.
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谢谢。
12:50
Thank you.
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（掌声）
12:51
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Leila Takayama - Social scientistLeila Takayama conducts research on human-robot interaction.
Why you should listen
Leila Takayama is an acting associate professor of Psychology at the University of California, Santa Cruz, where she founded and leads the Re-Embodied Cognition Lab. Her lab examines how people make sense of, interact with, and relate to new technologies. Prior to academia, she was a researcher at GoogleX and Willow Garage, where she developed a taste for working alongside engineers, designers, animators, and more. Her interdisciplinary research continues in her current work on what happens when people interact with robots and through robots.
Takayama is a World Economic Forum Global Futures Council Member and Young Global Leader. In 2015, she was presented the IEEE Robotics & Automation Society Early Career Award. In 2012, she was named a TR35 winner and one of the 100 most creative people in business by Fast Company. She completed her PhD in Communication at Stanford University in 2008, advised by Professor Clifford Nass. She also holds a PhD minor in Psychology from Stanford, a master's degree in Communication from Stanford, and bachelor's of arts degrees in Psychology and Cognitive Science from UC Berkeley (2003). During her graduate studies, she was a research assistant in the User Interface Research (UIR) group at Palo Alto Research Center (PARC).
Photo: Melissa DeWitt
Leila Takayama | Speaker | TED.com