Leila Takayama: What's it like to be a robot?
レイラ・タカヤマ: ロボットの気持ちを考えるー人間とロボットの共存社会を目指して
Leila Takayama conducts research on human-robot interaction. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
to make a first impression,
as well as if you're a person.
与えることができません
one of these robots
初めて出会ったのは2008年ー
called Willow Garage in 2008.
my host walked me into the building
about robots that day
できるけれども
ということでした
with these possible robot futures,
実験する中で学ぶことも
a lot more about ourselves
人間についての方が多いと思います
expectations for this little dude.
to navigate the physical world,
to navigate my social world --
思っていました
パーソナルロボットなのです
to get from point A to point B,
A地点からB地点へ行く途中で
not a very efficient thing to do.
あまり効率的とは言えません
that I was a person, not a chair,
喜んで道を譲るものだと
to get out of its way
would have been more efficient
to notice that I was a human
than things like chairs and walls do.
as being from outer space
宇宙や未来やSF小説からやって来ると
and from science fiction,
that robots are here today,
amongst us right now.
お話をします
and they cut the grass
if I actually had time to do these tasks,
私はそんなに多くはやりませんし
do it better than I would, too.
he uses the box, it cleans it,
毎回 掃除します
his life better as well as mine.
it's a robot lawnmower,
“ロボット芝刈機”
だけでなく
of other robots hiding in plain sight
目立たずに活躍しています
like, "dishwasher," right?
serve a purpose in our lives.
at me calling this a robot,
いやな顔をするでしょうが
66 degrees Fahrenheit,
it acts on the physical world.
look like Rosie the Robot,
似ていなくても
that's really useful in my life
up and down myself.
live and work amongst us now,
今や私たちの生活の一部です
living amongst us
入り込んでいるだけでなく
a robot operator, too.
ロボットの操縦もしています
from point A to point B,
and maybe even adaptive cruise control.
装備されています
a fully autonomous car,
like they're invisible-in-use, right?
you're going from one place to another.
厄介な仕事だと感じることがないのは
that you have to deal with and operate
learning how to drive
extensions of ourselves.
なっているからです
in that tight little garage space,
駐車するときでも
初めて運転する車種ならば
that maybe you haven't driven before,
to get used to your new robot body.
少し時間がかかりますね
who operate other types of robots,
同じことがいえるのです
a few stories about that.
少しお話をしたいと思います
of remote collaboration.
どう扱うかです
I had a coworker named Dallas,
ダラスという同僚がいて
in our company in California.
彼はインディアナにある自宅から働いています
on the table in most of our meetings,
会議に参加するのは
except that, you know,
and we didn't like what he was saying,
ダラスの意見が気に入らないときには
(笑)
after that meeting
in the hallway afterwards
実は後で廊下で行われたりするのですが
robot body parts laying around,
put together this thing,
like Skype on a stick on wheels,
ふざけたおもちゃみたいですが
one of the most powerful tools
ツールの中で
for remote collaboration.
Dallas' email question,
ダラスからのメールに返信しないと
and ask me the question again --
That's kind of rude.
失礼だから
for these one-on-one communications,
コミュニケーションだけでなく
at the company all-hands meeting.
and committed to your project
プロジェクトへの貢献を示すのは
of months and then years,
but at others, too.
with these systems
like you're just there.
感じ始めることです
その人の体であり
to give these things personal space.
用意されるようになります
if you were there in person.
there's breakdowns and it's not.
うまく行かない面もあります
There must be a camera over there,"
ここにカメラがあるに違いない」と
I'm going to turn up your volume,"
ボリュームを上げよう」
walk up to you and say,
こう言うようなもの
顔を上向きにするわよ」
I'm going to turn up your face."
these new social norms
いけなくなりました
feeling like it's your body,
自分の本体と感じ始めると同時に
"Oh, my robot is kind of short."
「あれ ロボット版の自分は背が低いな」と
he was six-foot tall --
彼は180センチだったからです
to cocktail parties and things like that,
カクテル・パーティーに連れて行くと
which is close to my height.
really looking at me.
at this sea of shoulders,
to be on the shorter end of the spectrum."
a lot of empathy for that experience,
気遣いもできるようになりました
as he was talking to me,
椅子に腰掛けて
and talk to me eye to eye,
to look at this in the laboratory
背の高さみたいなことで
things like robot height would make.
実験することにしました
used a shorter robot,
半数の人は背の低いロボットを使用し
used a taller robot
使用しました
that the exact same person
and says the exact same things as someone,
同じ事を誰かに言ったときに
and perceived as being more credible
説得力があり
the way that Cliff Nass would put this
こんな言い方をしたことでしょう
with these new technologies
that we have very old brains.
at the same speed that tech is
速さでは変わりませんが
are running around.
not machines, right?
into things like just height of a machine,
多くの意味を与えてしまい
あてはめてしまうのです
to the person using the system.
is really important
考えるのではなく
how we extend ourselves, right?
見極めていくことでないでしょうか?
in ways that are sort of surprising.
驚くような事態も生じました
because the robots don't have arms,
ビリヤードができませんでしたが
who are playing pool
for team bonding,
at operating these systems
like make up new games,
ロボット・サッカーをするのです
in the middle of the night,
操作が得意な訳ではなく
operating these systems.
who logged into the robot
90 degrees to the left.
around the office,
getting super embarrassed,
非常に恥ずかしい目にあい
his volume was way too high.
その声も大きすぎでした
in the image is telling me,
was we don't want it to be so disruptive.
avoidance to the system.
that could see the obstacles,
障害物が分かるようにしたのです
try to say, run into a chair,
椅子にぶつりそうになっても
it would just plan a path around,
回避経路を探すのです
using that system, obviously,
明らかに 障害に衝突しなくなります
to get through our obstacle course,
ずっと長い時間がかかる人もいました
this important human dimension --
called locus of control,
人格側面が関与していて
a strong internal locus of control,
of their own destiny --
to an autonomous system --
fight the autonomy;
I'm going to hit that chair."
ぶつからないと」という具合です
from having that autonomous assistance,
かえって苦戦するのです
autonomous, say, cars, right?
作ろうとしている時代なのですから
to grapple with that loss of control?
多様な人々がどう対処していくのでしょうか?
depending on human dimensions.
as if we're just one monolithic thing.
扱うことはできません
moment to moment,
the human dimensions,
also comes a sense of responsibility.
責任感も問題となります
using one of these systems,
ロボットを操作するときの
would look like.
that's very familiar to people,
欠点があります
like it's a video game.
over at Stanford play with the system
システムを操作する大勢の学生がいて
ロボットを操縦しながら
around our office in Menlo Park,
あいつに当てたら20点」
20 points for that one."
chase them down the hallway.
生身の人間だから
and feel pain if you hit them."
出血して痛いと思うわ」と言うと
they would be like,
こんな話をしています
あの人 ぶつけてほしいんじゃないかな」
he just looks like he needs to get hit."
like "Ender's Game," right?
as people designing these interfaces
設計する側としては
to their actions
機械を操縦するときは
these increasingly autonomous things.
必要があると思います
ロボットと共に迎える未来を
possible robotic future,
that we can extend ourselves
that we extend ourselves
自己を拡張する方法を学び
being able to express our humanity
人間性や個性を表現できるのは
「足が速い」「遅い」とか
shorter, taller, faster, slower,
相手の状況に
for the robots themselves.
to this intersection in Manhattan,"
行きたいんだ」
forward, that's it.
前にだけ進む 可愛いロボットです
it doesn't know how to see the world,
世界を認識する方法も知らないので
upon the kindness of strangers.
to the other side of Manhattan --
マンハッタンの向こう側まで行けたのは―
and point it in the right direction.
直してくれるお陰です
this human-robot world
and collaborate with one another,
実現しようとしています
物事を人間だけで行う必要もありません
and just do things on our own.
like the artists and the designers,
anthropologists --
私たちがすべきこと―
that Stu Card says we should do,
築き上げていくためには
that we actually want to live in.
robotic futures together,
learning a lot more about ourselves.
深く理解することができるでしょう
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Leila Takayama - Social scientistLeila Takayama conducts research on human-robot interaction.
Why you should listen
Leila Takayama is an acting associate professor of Psychology at the University of California, Santa Cruz, where she founded and leads the Re-Embodied Cognition Lab. Her lab examines how people make sense of, interact with, and relate to new technologies. Prior to academia, she was a researcher at GoogleX and Willow Garage, where she developed a taste for working alongside engineers, designers, animators, and more. Her interdisciplinary research continues in her current work on what happens when people interact with robots and through robots.
Takayama is a World Economic Forum Global Futures Council Member and Young Global Leader. In 2015, she was presented the IEEE Robotics & Automation Society Early Career Award. In 2012, she was named a TR35 winner and one of the 100 most creative people in business by Fast Company. She completed her PhD in Communication at Stanford University in 2008, advised by Professor Clifford Nass. She also holds a PhD minor in Psychology from Stanford, a master's degree in Communication from Stanford, and bachelor's of arts degrees in Psychology and Cognitive Science from UC Berkeley (2003). During her graduate studies, she was a research assistant in the User Interface Research (UIR) group at Palo Alto Research Center (PARC).
Photo: Melissa DeWitt
Leila Takayama | Speaker | TED.com