ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Karima Bennoune - Professor of international law
Karima Bennoune's new book introduces the world to people who speak out against fundamentalist terrorism.

Why you should listen

Karima Bennoune is a professor of international law at the University of California–Davis School of Law. She grew up in Algeria and the United States and now lives in northern California.

She has published widely in many leading academic journals, as well as in the Guardian, The New York Times, Comment is Free, the website of Al Jazeera English, The Nation. The topic of her most recent publication ‘Your Fatwa Does Not Apply Here’ is a very personal one for her. Her father Mahfoud Bennoune was an outspoken professor at the University of Algiers, and faced death threats during the 1990s, but continued speaking out against fundamentalism and terrorism. In writing this book, Karima set out to meet people who are today doing what her father did back then, to try to garner for them greater international support than Algerian democrats received during the 1990s.

She has served as a member of the Executive Council of the American Society of International Law and on the board of directors of Amnesty International USA. Currently, she sits on the Board of the Network of Women Living Under Muslim Laws. She has also been a consultant on human rights issues for the International Council on Human Rights Policy, the Soros Foundation, the Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers, and for the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO). Her human rights field missions have included Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Fiji, Lebanon, Pakistan, South Korea, southern Thailand, and Tunisia.

She traveled to Algeria in February 2011 to serve as an observer at pro-democracy protests with the support of the Urgent Action Fund for Women’s Human Rights, writing a series of articles about these events for the Guardian. In October 2011, she volunteered as an election observer during the Tunisian constituent assembly elections with Gender Concerns International.

More profile about the speaker
Karima Bennoune | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxExeter

Karima Bennoune: When people of Muslim heritage challenge fundamentalism

Filmed:
1,504,177 views

Karima Bennoune shares four powerful stories of real people fighting against fundamentalism in their own communities — refusing to allow the faith they love to become a tool for crime, attacks and murder. These personal stories humanize one of the most overlooked human-rights struggles in the world.
- Professor of international law
Karima Bennoune's new book introduces the world to people who speak out against fundamentalist terrorism. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

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Could I protect my father
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from the Armed Islamic Group with a paring knife?
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That was the question I faced
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one Tuesday morning in June of 1993,
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when I was a law student.
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I woke up early that morning
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in Dad's apartment
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on the outskirts of Algiers, Algeria,
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to an unrelenting pounding on the front door.
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It was a season as described by a local paper
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when every Tuesday a scholar fell
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to the bullets of fundamentalist assassins.
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My father's university teaching of Darwin
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had already provoked a classroom visit
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from the head of the so-called
Islamic Salvation Front,
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who denounced Dad as an advocate of biologism
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before Dad had ejected the man,
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and now whoever was outside
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would neither identify himself nor go away.
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So my father tried to get the police on the phone,
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but perhaps terrified by the rising tide
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of armed extremism that had already claimed
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the lives of so many Algerian officers,
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they didn't even answer.
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And that was when I went to the kitchen,
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got out a paring knife,
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and took up a position inside the entryway.
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It was a ridiculous thing to do, really,
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but I couldn't think of anything else,
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and so there I stood.
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When I look back now, I think
that that was the moment
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that set me on the path was to writing a book
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called "Your Fatwa Does Not Apply Here:
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Untold Stories from the Fight
Against Muslim Fundamentalism."
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The title comes from a Pakistani play.
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I think it was actually that moment
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that sent me on the journey
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to interview 300 people of Muslim heritage
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from nearly 30 countries,
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from Afghanistan to Mali,
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to find out how they fought fundamentalism
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peacefully like my father did,
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and how they coped with the attendant risks.
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Luckily, back in June of 1993,
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our unidentified visitor went away,
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but other families were so much less lucky,
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and that was the thought
that motivated my research.
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In any case, someone would return
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a few months later and leave a note
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on Dad's kitchen table,
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which simply said, "Consider yourself dead."
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Subsequently, Algeria's
fundamentalist armed groups
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would murder as many as 200,000 civilians
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in what came to be known
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as the dark decade of the 1990s,
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including every single one
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of the women that you see here.
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In its harsh counterterrorist response,
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the state resorted to torture
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and to forced disappearances,
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and as terrible as all of these events became,
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the international community largely ignored them.
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Finally, my father, an Algerian
peasant's son turned professor,
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was forced to stop teaching at the university
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and to flee his apartment,
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but what I will never forget
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about Mahfoud Bennoune, my dad,
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was that like so many other Algerian intellectuals,
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he refused to leave the country
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and he continued to publish pointed criticisms,
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both of the fundamentalists
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and sometimes of the government they battled.
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For example, in a November 1994 series
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in the newspaper El Watan
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entitled "How Fundamentalism
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Produced a Terrorism without Precedent,"
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he denounced what he called
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the terrorists' radical break with the true Islam
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as it was lived by our ancestors.
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These were words that could get you killed.
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My father's country taught me
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in that dark decade of the 1990s that
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the popular struggle against Muslim fundamentalism
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is one of the most important
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and overlooked human rights struggles
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in the world.
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This remains true today, nearly 20 years later.
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You see, in every country
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where you hear about armed jihadis
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targeting civilians,
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there are also unarmed people
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defying those militants that you don't hear about,
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and those people need our support to succeed.
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In the West, it's often assumed
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that Muslims generally condone terrorism.
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Some on the right think this because they view
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Muslim culture as inherently violent,
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and some on the left imagine this
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because they view Muslim violence,
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fundamentalist violence,
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solely as a product of legitimate grievances.
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But both views are dead wrong.
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In fact, many people of Muslim heritage
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around the world are staunch opponents
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both of fundamentalism and of terrorism,
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and often for very good reason.
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You see, they're much more likely to be victims
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of this violence than its perpetrators.
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Let me just give you one example.
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According to a 2009 survey
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of Arabic language media resources,
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between 2004 and 2008,
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no more than 15 percent of al Qaeda's victims
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were Westerners.
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That's a terrible toll, but the vast majority
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were people of Muslim heritage,
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killed by Muslim fundamentalists.
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Now I've been talking for the last five minutes
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about fundamentalism, and you have a right to know
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exactly what I mean.
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I cite the definition given by the Algerian sociologist
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Marieme Helie Lucas,
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and she says that fundamentalisms,
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note the "s," so within all of the world's
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great religious traditions,
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"fundamentalisms are political
movements of the extreme right
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which in a context of globalization
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manipulate religion in order to achieve
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their political aims."
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Sadia Abbas has called this the radical politicization
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of theology.
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Now I want to avoid projecting the notion
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that there's sort of a monolith out there
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called Muslim fundamentalism
that is the same everywhere,
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because these movements
also have their diversities.
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Some use and advocate violence.
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Some do not, though they're often interrelated.
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They take different forms.
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Some may be non-governmental organizations,
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even here in Britain like Cageprisoners.
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Some may become political parties,
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like the Muslim Brotherhood,
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and some may be openly armed groups
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like the Taliban.
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But in any case, these are all radical projects.
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They're not conservative or traditional approaches.
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They're most often about changing
people's relationship with Islam
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rather than preserving it.
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What I am talking about is the Muslim extreme right,
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and the fact that its adherents are
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or purport to be Muslim
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makes them no less offensive
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than the extreme right anywhere else.
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So in my view, if we consider ourselves
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liberal or left-wing,
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human rights-loving or feminist,
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we must oppose these movements
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and support their grassroots opponents.
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Now let me be clear
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that I support an effective struggle
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against fundamentalism,
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but also a struggle that must itself
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respect international law,
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so nothing I am saying should be taken
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as a justification for refusals
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to democratize,
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and here I send out a shout-out of support
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to the pro-democracy movement
in Algeria today, Barakat.
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Nor should anything I say be taken
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as a justification of violations of human rights,
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like the mass death sentences
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handed out in Egypt earlier this week.
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But what I am saying
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is that we must challenge these
Muslim fundamentalist movements
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because they threaten human rights
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across Muslim-majority contexts,
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and they do this in a range of ways,
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most obviously with the direct attacks on civilians
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by the armed groups that carry those out.
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But that violence is just the tip of the iceberg.
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These movements as a whole purvey discrimination
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against religious minorities and sexual minorities.
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They seek to curtail the freedom of religion
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of everyone who either practices in a different way
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or chooses not to practice.
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And most definingly, they lead an all-out war
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on the rights of women.
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Now, faced with these movements
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in recent years, Western discourse
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has most often offered
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two flawed responses.
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The first that one sometimes finds on the right
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suggests that most Muslims are fundamentalist
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or something about Islam is
inherently fundamentalist,
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and this is just offensive and wrong,
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but unfortunately on the left
one sometimes encounters
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a discourse that is too politically correct
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to acknowledge the problem of
Muslim fundamentalism at all
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or, even worse, apologizes for it,
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and this is unacceptable as well.
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So what I'm seeking is a new way
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of talking about this all together,
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which is grounded in the lived experiences
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and the hope of the people on the front lines.
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I'm painfully aware that there has been
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an increase in discrimination
against Muslims in recent years
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in countries like the U.K. and the U.S.,
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and that too is a matter of grave concern,
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but I firmly believe
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that telling these counter-stereotypical stories
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of people of Muslim heritage
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who have confronted the fundamentalists
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and been their primary victims
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is also a great way of countering that discrimination.
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So now let me introduce you
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to four people whose stories
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I had the great honor of telling.
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Faizan Peerzada and the Rafi Peer Theatre
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workshop named for his father
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have for years promoted the performing arts
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in Pakistan.
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With the rise of jihadist violence,
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they began to receive threats
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to call off their events, which they refused to heed.
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And so a bomber struck their 2008
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eighth world performing arts festival in Lahore,
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producing rain of glass
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that fell into the venue
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injuring nine people,
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and later that same night,
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the Peerzadas made a very difficult decision:
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they announced that their festival
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would continue as planned the next day.
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As Faizan said at the time,
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if we bow down to the Islamists,
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we'll just be sitting in a dark corner.
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But they didn't know what would happen.
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Would anyone come?
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In fact, thousands of people came out the next day
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to support the performing arts in Lahore,
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and this simultaneously thrilled
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and terrified Faizan,
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and he ran up to a woman
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who had come in with her two small children,
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and he said, "You do know there
was a bomb here yesterday,
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10:05
and you do know there's a threat here today."
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10:07
And she said, "I know that,
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but I came to your festival
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with my mother when I was their age,
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and I still have those images in my mind.
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We have to be here."
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With stalwart audiences like this,
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the Peerzadas were able to conclude
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their festival on schedule.
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And then the next year,
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they lost all of their sponsors
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due to the security risk.
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So when I met them in 2010,
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they were in the middle of the first subsequent event
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that they were able to have in the same venue,
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and this was the ninth youth performing arts festival
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held in Lahore in a year when that city
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had already experienced 44 terror attacks.
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This was a time when the Pakistani Taliban
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had commenced their systematic targeting
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of girls' schools that would culminate
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in the attack on Malala Yousafzai.
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What did the Peerzadas do in that environment?
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They staged girls' school theater.
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So I had the privilege of watching "Naang Wal,"
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which was a musical in the Punjabi language,
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and the girls of Lahore Grammar School
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played all the parts.
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They sang and danced,
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they played the mice and the water buffalo,
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and I held my breath, wondering,
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would we get to the end
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of this amazing show?
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And when we did, the whole audience
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collectively exhaled,
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and a few people actually wept,
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and then they filled the auditorium
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with the peaceful boom of their applause.
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And I remember thinking in that moment
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that the bombers made headlines here
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two years before
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but this night and these people
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are as important a story.
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Maria Bashir is the first and only
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11:52
woman chief prosecutor in Afghanistan.
289
700968
3124
11:56
She's been in the post since 2008
290
704092
2214
11:58
and actually opened an office to investigate
291
706306
2186
12:00
cases of violence against women,
292
708492
1826
12:02
which she says is the most important area
293
710318
2258
12:04
in her mandate.
294
712576
1734
12:06
When I meet her in her office in Herat,
295
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3065
12:09
she enters surrounded by
296
717375
1745
12:11
four large men with four huge guns.
297
719120
3366
12:14
In fact, she now has 23 bodyguards,
298
722486
2964
12:17
because she has weathered bomb attacks
299
725450
1420
12:18
that nearly killed her kids,
300
726870
1678
12:20
and it took the leg off of one of her guards.
301
728548
3351
12:23
Why does she continue?
302
731899
2110
12:26
She says with a smile that that is the question
303
734009
2654
12:28
that everyone asks—
304
736663
2047
12:30
as she puts it, "Why you risk not living?"
305
738710
3825
12:34
And it is simply that for her,
306
742535
1639
12:36
a better future for all the Maria Bashirs to come
307
744174
3469
12:39
is worth the risk,
308
747643
1484
12:41
and she knows that if people like her
309
749127
1710
12:42
do not take the risk,
310
750837
1915
12:44
there will be no better future.
311
752752
2297
12:47
Later on in our interview,
312
755049
1727
12:48
Prosecutor Bashir tells me how worried she is
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756776
2363
12:51
about the possible outcome
314
759139
1519
12:52
of government negotiations with the Taliban,
315
760658
2499
12:55
the people who have been trying to kill her.
316
763157
2394
12:57
"If we give them a place in the government,"
317
765551
1752
12:59
she asks, "Who will protect women's rights?"
318
767303
3217
13:02
And she urges the international community
319
770520
2366
13:04
not to forget its promise about women
320
772886
2632
13:07
because now they want peace with Taliban.
321
775518
3827
13:11
A few weeks after I leave Afghanistan,
322
779345
2205
13:13
I see a headline on the Internet.
323
781550
2875
13:16
An Afghan prosecutor has been assassinated.
324
784425
3605
13:20
I google desperately,
325
788030
2136
13:22
and thankfully that day I find out
326
790166
1674
13:23
that Maria was not the victim,
327
791840
2086
13:25
though sadly, another Afghan prosecutor
328
793926
2223
13:28
was gunned down on his way to work.
329
796149
2031
13:30
And when I hear headlines like that now,
330
798180
2995
13:33
I think that as international troops
331
801175
2298
13:35
leave Afghanistan this year and beyond,
332
803473
3048
13:38
we must continue to care
333
806521
1906
13:40
about what happens to people there,
334
808427
1433
13:41
to all of the Maria Bashirs.
335
809860
3026
13:44
Sometimes I still hear her voice in my head
336
812886
2613
13:47
saying, with no bravado whatsoever,
337
815499
3081
13:50
"The situation of the women of Afghanistan
338
818580
2605
13:53
will be better someday.
339
821185
1906
13:55
We should prepare the ground for this,
340
823091
2235
13:57
even if we are killed."
341
825326
2943
14:01
There are no words adequate
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829854
1648
14:03
to denounce the al Shabaab terrorists
343
831502
1976
14:05
who attacked the Westgate Mall in Nairobi
344
833478
2262
14:07
on the same day as a children's cooking competition
345
835740
3462
14:11
in September of 2013.
346
839202
2418
14:13
They killed 67, including poets and pregnant women.
347
841620
4499
14:18
Far away in the American Midwest,
348
846119
2099
14:20
I had the good fortune of meeting Somali-Americans
349
848218
2347
14:22
who were working to counter
the efforts of al Shabaab
350
850565
2848
14:25
to recruit a small number of young people
351
853413
2224
14:27
from their city of Minneapolis
352
855637
1944
14:29
to take part in atrocities like Westgate.
353
857581
3698
14:33
Abdirizak Bihi's studious
354
861279
1960
14:35
17-year-old nephew Burhan Hassan
355
863239
2889
14:38
was recruited here in 2008,
356
866128
2648
14:40
spirited to Somalia,
357
868776
1760
14:42
and then killed when he tried to come home.
358
870536
3370
14:45
Since that time, Mr. Bihi,
359
873906
1594
14:47
who directs the no-budget Somali
Education and Advocacy Center,
360
875500
4253
14:51
has been vocally denouncing the recruitment
361
879753
2451
14:54
and the failures of government
362
882204
1856
14:56
and Somali-American institutions
363
884060
2219
14:58
like the Abubakar As-Saddique Islamic Center
364
886279
3025
15:01
where he believes his nephew was radicalized
365
889304
2231
15:03
during a youth program.
366
891535
2106
15:05
But he doesn't just criticize the mosque.
367
893641
2153
15:07
He also takes on the government
368
895794
1579
15:09
for its failure to do more
369
897373
1785
15:11
to prevent poverty in his community.
370
899158
2498
15:13
Given his own lack of financial resources,
371
901656
2289
15:15
Mr. Bihi has had to be creative.
372
903945
2311
15:18
To counter the efforts of al Shabaab
373
906256
1894
15:20
to sway more disaffected youth,
374
908150
2385
15:22
in the wake of the group's 2010 attack
375
910535
2435
15:24
on World Cup viewers in Uganda,
376
912970
2594
15:27
he organized a Ramadan basketball tournament
377
915564
3340
15:30
in Minneapolis in response.
378
918904
2532
15:33
Scores of Somali-American kids came out
379
921436
2684
15:36
to embrace sport
380
924120
1388
15:37
despite the fatwa against it.
381
925508
2492
15:40
They played basketball
382
928000
1745
15:41
as Burhan Hassan never would again.
383
929745
3867
15:45
For his efforts, Mr. Bihi has been ostracized
384
933612
2650
15:48
by the leadership of the Abubakar
As-Saddique Islamic Center,
385
936262
3072
15:51
with which he used to have good relations.
386
939334
2565
15:53
He told me, "One day we saw the imam on TV
387
941899
2386
15:56
calling us infidels and saying,
388
944285
2058
15:58
'These families are trying to destroy the mosque.'"
389
946343
3569
16:01
This is at complete odds
390
949912
1411
16:03
with how Abdirizak Bihi understands
391
951323
2533
16:05
what he is trying to do
392
953856
1800
16:07
by exposing al Shabaab recruitment,
393
955656
2406
16:10
which is to save the religion I love
394
958062
2422
16:12
from a small number of extremists.
395
960484
3126
16:16
Now I want to tell one last story,
396
964938
2561
16:19
that of a 22-year-old law student in Algeria
397
967499
3014
16:22
named Amel Zenoune-Zouani
398
970513
1946
16:24
who had the same dreams of a legal career
399
972459
1879
16:26
that I did back in the '90s.
400
974338
2702
16:29
She refused to give up her studies,
401
977040
1929
16:30
despite the fact that the fundamentalists
402
978969
1969
16:32
battling the Algerian state back then
403
980938
2530
16:35
threatened all who continued their education.
404
983468
3622
16:39
On January 26, 1997, Amel boarded the bus
405
987090
4110
16:43
in Algiers where she was studying
406
991200
1922
16:45
to go home and spend a Ramadan evening
407
993122
2183
16:47
with her family,
408
995305
1689
16:48
and would never finish law school.
409
996994
2386
16:51
When the bus reached the outskirts
410
999380
1460
16:52
of her hometown, it was stopped
411
1000840
1775
16:54
at a checkpoint manned by men
412
1002615
2142
16:56
from the Armed Islamic Group.
413
1004757
2294
16:59
Carrying her schoolbag,
414
1007051
1729
17:00
Amel was taken off the bus
415
1008780
1986
17:02
and killed in the street.
416
1010766
2589
17:05
The men who cut her throat
417
1013355
1136
17:06
then told everyone else,
418
1014491
1850
17:08
"If you go to university,
419
1016341
1894
17:10
the day will come when we will kill all of you
420
1018235
2554
17:12
just like this."
421
1020789
3231
17:16
Amel died at exactly 5:17 p.m.,
422
1024020
2700
17:18
which we know because when she fell in the street,
423
1026720
2848
17:21
her watch broke.
424
1029568
1777
17:23
Her mother showed me the watch
425
1031345
1229
17:24
with the second hand still aimed
426
1032574
2001
17:26
optimistically upward
427
1034575
1496
17:28
towards a 5:18 that would never come.
428
1036071
3436
17:31
Shortly before her death,
429
1039507
1149
17:32
Amel had said to her mother of herself
430
1040656
1855
17:34
and her sisters,
431
1042511
1887
17:36
"Nothing will happen to us, Inshallah, God willing,
432
1044398
3617
17:40
but if something happens,
433
1048015
1870
17:41
you must know that we are dead for knowledge.
434
1049885
2883
17:44
You and father must keep your heads held high."
435
1052768
4210
17:48
The loss of such a young woman is unfathomable,
436
1056978
3982
17:52
and so as I did my research
437
1060960
1555
17:54
I found myself searching for Amel's hope again
438
1062515
3254
17:57
and her name even means "hope" in Arabic.
439
1065769
2937
18:00
I think I found it in two places.
440
1068706
3251
18:03
The first is in the strength of her family
441
1071957
2295
18:06
and all the other families to
continue telling their stories
442
1074252
3266
18:09
and to go on with their lives despite the terrorism.
443
1077518
3065
18:12
In fact, Amel's sister Lamia overcame her grief,
444
1080583
3282
18:15
went to law school,
445
1083865
1371
18:17
and practices as a lawyer in Algiers today,
446
1085236
2754
18:19
something which is only possible
447
1087990
1601
18:21
because the armed fundamentalists
448
1089591
1189
18:22
were largely defeated in the country.
449
1090780
2878
18:25
And the second place I found Amel's hope
450
1093658
2847
18:28
was everywhere that women and men
451
1096505
2472
18:30
continue to defy the jihadis.
452
1098977
2695
18:33
We must support all of those in honor of Amel
453
1101672
3258
18:36
who continue this human rights struggle today,
454
1104930
2633
18:39
like the Network of Women
Living Under Muslim Laws.
455
1107563
3997
18:43
It is not enough, as the victims rights advocate
456
1111560
2627
18:46
Cherifa Kheddar told me in Algiers,
457
1114187
1887
18:48
it is not enough just to battle terrorism.
458
1116074
3065
18:51
We must also challenge fundamentalism,
459
1119139
2544
18:53
because fundamentalism is the ideology
460
1121683
2437
18:56
that makes the bed of this terrorism.
461
1124120
2591
18:58
Why is it that people like her, like all of them
462
1126711
3439
19:02
are not more well known?
463
1130150
1694
19:03
Why is it that everyone knows
who Osama bin Laden was
464
1131844
3277
19:07
and so few know of all of those
465
1135121
1933
19:09
standing up to the bin Ladens in their own contexts.
466
1137054
3693
19:12
We must change that, and so I ask you
467
1140747
2657
19:15
to please help share these stories
468
1143404
1768
19:17
through your networks.
469
1145172
1773
19:18
Look again at Amel Zenoune's watch,
470
1146945
2099
19:21
forever frozen,
471
1149044
1660
19:22
and now please look at your own watch
472
1150704
2362
19:25
and decide this is the moment that you commit
473
1153066
3024
19:28
to supporting people like Amel.
474
1156090
1908
19:29
We don't have the right to be silent about them
475
1157998
2381
19:32
because it is easier
476
1160379
1498
19:33
or because Western policy is flawed as well,
477
1161877
2861
19:36
because 5:17 is still coming
478
1164738
2336
19:39
to too many Amel Zenounes
479
1167074
1867
19:40
in places like northern Nigeria,
480
1168941
1970
19:42
where jihadis still kill students.
481
1170911
2576
19:45
The time to speak up in support of all of those
482
1173487
3081
19:48
who peacefully challenge fundamentalism
483
1176568
2308
19:50
and terrorism in their own communities
484
1178876
2964
19:53
is now.
485
1181840
1536
19:55
Thank you.
486
1183376
2283
19:57
(Applause)
487
1185659
2506

▲Back to top

ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Karima Bennoune - Professor of international law
Karima Bennoune's new book introduces the world to people who speak out against fundamentalist terrorism.

Why you should listen

Karima Bennoune is a professor of international law at the University of California–Davis School of Law. She grew up in Algeria and the United States and now lives in northern California.

She has published widely in many leading academic journals, as well as in the Guardian, The New York Times, Comment is Free, the website of Al Jazeera English, The Nation. The topic of her most recent publication ‘Your Fatwa Does Not Apply Here’ is a very personal one for her. Her father Mahfoud Bennoune was an outspoken professor at the University of Algiers, and faced death threats during the 1990s, but continued speaking out against fundamentalism and terrorism. In writing this book, Karima set out to meet people who are today doing what her father did back then, to try to garner for them greater international support than Algerian democrats received during the 1990s.

She has served as a member of the Executive Council of the American Society of International Law and on the board of directors of Amnesty International USA. Currently, she sits on the Board of the Network of Women Living Under Muslim Laws. She has also been a consultant on human rights issues for the International Council on Human Rights Policy, the Soros Foundation, the Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers, and for the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO). Her human rights field missions have included Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Fiji, Lebanon, Pakistan, South Korea, southern Thailand, and Tunisia.

She traveled to Algeria in February 2011 to serve as an observer at pro-democracy protests with the support of the Urgent Action Fund for Women’s Human Rights, writing a series of articles about these events for the Guardian. In October 2011, she volunteered as an election observer during the Tunisian constituent assembly elections with Gender Concerns International.

More profile about the speaker
Karima Bennoune | Speaker | TED.com

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