TEDGlobal 2011
Alison Gopnik: What do babies think?
Alison Gopnik: Što bebe misle?
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"Bebe i mala djeca su poput odjela za istraživanja i razvoj ljudske vrste", kaže psihologinja Alison Gopnik. Njezina istraživanja ispituju sofisticirano sakupljanje informacija i odlučivanje prisutno kod beba za vrijeme igre.
Alison Gopnik - Child development psychologist
Alison Gopnik takes us into the fascinating minds of babies and children, and shows us how much we understand before we even realize we do. Full bio
Alison Gopnik takes us into the fascinating minds of babies and children, and shows us how much we understand before we even realize we do. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
What is going on
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Što se događa
00:17
in this baby's mind?
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u umu ove bebe?
00:19
If you'd asked people this 30 years ago,
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Da ste postavili ovo pitanje prije 30 godina,
00:21
most people, including psychologists,
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većina ljudi, uključujući psihologe,
00:23
would have said that this baby was irrational,
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rekla bi da je ova beba iracionalna,
00:26
illogical, egocentric --
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nerazborita, egocentrična --
00:28
that he couldn't take the perspective of another person
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da ne može gledati iz perspektive druge osobe
00:30
or understand cause and effect.
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i shvatiti uzrok i posljedicu.
00:32
In the last 20 years,
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Posljednjih 20 godina
00:34
developmental science has completely overturned that picture.
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razvojna je znanost u potpunosti promijenila tu sliku.
00:37
So in some ways,
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Tako na neki način
00:39
we think that this baby's thinking
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mislimo da je razmišljanje ove bebe
00:41
is like the thinking of the most brilliant scientists.
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poput razmišljanja najbistrijih znanstvenika.
00:45
Let me give you just one example of this.
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Navest ću samo jedan primjer.
00:47
One thing that this baby could be thinking about,
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Jedna od stvari o kojoj bi ova beba mogla razmišljati,
00:50
that could be going on in his mind,
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što bi se moglo odvijati u njezinom umu,
00:52
is trying to figure out
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pokušaj je shvaćanja
00:54
what's going on in the mind of that other baby.
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što se događa u umu druge bebe.
00:57
After all, one of the things that's hardest for all of us to do
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Na kraju krajeva, jedna je od najtežih stvari
01:00
is to figure out what other people are thinking and feeling.
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shvatiti o čemu ostali ljudi razmišljaju i što osjećaju.
01:03
And maybe the hardest thing of all
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A možda je najteže od svega
01:05
is to figure out that what other people think and feel
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shvatiti da ono što drugi misle i osjećaju
01:08
isn't actually exactly like what we think and feel.
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nije isto kao ono što mi mislimo i osjećamo.
01:10
Anyone who's followed politics can testify
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Svi koji su pratili politiku mogu potvrditi
01:12
to how hard that is for some people to get.
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koliko je nekim ljudima teško to shvatiti.
01:15
We wanted to know
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Željeli smo saznati
01:17
if babies and young children
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mogu li bebe i mala djeca
01:19
could understand this really profound thing about other people.
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razumjeti nešto tako duboko u vezi drugih ljudi.
01:22
Now the question is: How could we ask them?
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Pitanje je kako bismo ih mogli to pitati.
01:24
Babies, after all, can't talk,
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Bebe, na koncu, ne govore
01:26
and if you ask a three year-old
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a ako pitate trogodišnjaka
01:28
to tell you what he thinks,
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da vam kaže o čemu razmišlja
01:30
what you'll get is a beautiful stream of consciousness monologue
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dobit ćete prekrasan monolog struje svijesti
01:33
about ponies and birthdays and things like that.
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o ponijima, rođendanima i sličnim stvarima.
01:36
So how do we actually ask them the question?
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Kako im zaista možemo postaviti to pitanje?
01:39
Well it turns out that the secret was broccoli.
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Ispada da je tajna bila u brokuli.
01:42
What we did -- Betty Rapacholi, who was one of my students, and I --
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Ono što smo moja studentica, Betty Rapacholi, i ja učinile --
01:46
was actually to give the babies two bowls of food:
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dale smo bebama dvije zdjelice s hranom:
01:49
one bowl of raw broccoli
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zdjelicu sirove brokule
01:51
and one bowl of delicious goldfish crackers.
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i zdjelicu slasnih krekera u obliku ribica.
01:54
Now all of the babies, even in Berkley,
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Sve bebe, čak i u Berkleyju,
01:57
like the crackers and don't like the raw broccoli.
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vole krekere, a ne vole sirovu brokulu.
02:00
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
02:02
But then what Betty did
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No Betty je
02:04
was to take a little taste of food from each bowl.
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kušala malo hrane iz obje zdjelice.
02:07
And she would act as if she liked it or she didn't.
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I ponašala se kao da je voli ili ne voli.
02:09
So half the time, she acted
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Polovicu se vremena ponašala
02:11
as if she liked the crackers and didn't like the broccoli --
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kao da voli krekere, a ne voli brokulu --
02:13
just like a baby and any other sane person.
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kao beba i svi ostali zdravog razuma.
02:16
But half the time,
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No ostalo bi vrijeme
02:18
what she would do is take a little bit of the broccoli
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uzela komadić brokule
02:20
and go, "Mmmmm, broccoli.
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i rekla: "Mmmmm, brokula.
02:23
I tasted the broccoli. Mmmmm."
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Kušala sam brokulu. Mmmmm."
02:26
And then she would take a little bit of the crackers,
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A zatim bi uzela malo krekera
02:28
and she'd go, "Eww, yuck, crackers.
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i rekla: "Bljak, krekeri.
02:32
I tasted the crackers. Eww, yuck."
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Kušala sam krekere. Bljak."
02:35
So she'd act as if what she wanted
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Ponašala se kao da je ono što želi
02:37
was just the opposite of what the babies wanted.
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upravo suprotno od onoga što bebe žele.
02:40
We did this with 15 and 18 month-old babies.
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Učinili smo to s bebama od 15 i 18 mjeseci.
02:42
And then she would simply put her hand out and say,
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Zatim bi ispružila ruku i rekla:
02:45
"Can you give me some?"
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"Hoćeš li mi dati malo?"
02:47
So the question is: What would the baby give her,
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Pitanje je: Što će joj bebe dati,
02:49
what they liked or what she liked?
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ono što se njima sviđa ili što se njoj sviđa?
02:51
And the remarkable thing was that 18 month-old babies,
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Zapanjujuće je da bi joj bebe stare 18 mjeseci,
02:54
just barely walking and talking,
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koje jedva hodaju i govore,
02:56
would give her the crackers if she liked the crackers,
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dale krekere ako je pokazala da voli krekere,
02:59
but they would give her the broccoli if she liked the broccoli.
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a brokulu ako je pokazala da voli brokulu.
03:02
On the other hand,
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S druge strane,
03:04
15 month-olds would stare at her for a long time
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bebe stare 15 mjeseci dugo bi zurile u nju
03:06
if she acted as if she liked the broccoli,
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ako se ponašala kao da voli brokulu
03:08
like they couldn't figure this out.
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kao da to ne mogu shvatiti.
03:11
But then after they stared for a long time,
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No nakon dugog zurenja
03:13
they would just give her the crackers,
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jednostavno bi joj dale krekere
03:15
what they thought everybody must like.
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misleći da njih svi moraju voljeti.
03:17
So there are two really remarkable things about this.
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Postoje dvije izvanredne stvari u vezi toga.
03:20
The first one is that these little 18 month-old babies
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Prva je da su te male bebe stare 18 mjeseci
03:23
have already discovered
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već otkrile
03:25
this really profound fact about human nature,
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tu duboku činjenicu o ljudskoj prirodi,
03:27
that we don't always want the same thing.
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da ne želimo uvijek iste stvari.
03:29
And what's more, they felt that they should actually do things
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Štoviše, osjetile su da trebaju činiti ono
03:31
to help other people get what they wanted.
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što će drugima pomoći da dobiju ono što žele.
03:34
Even more remarkably though,
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Međutim, što je još nevjerojatnije,
03:36
the fact that 15 month-olds didn't do this
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činjenica da bebe stare 15 mjeseci nisu to učinile
03:39
suggests that these 18 month-olds had learned
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daje naslutiti da su bebe stare 18 mjeseci naučile
03:42
this deep, profound fact about human nature
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tu duboku, ozbiljnu činjenicu o ljudskoj prirodi
03:45
in the three months from when they were 15 months old.
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unutar tri mjeseca počevši od dobi od 15 mjeseci.
03:48
So children both know more and learn more
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Znači, djeca znaju više i uče više
03:50
than we ever would have thought.
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nego što bismo ikad pomislili.
03:52
And this is just one of hundreds and hundreds of studies over the last 20 years
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A to je samo jedna od stotina i stotina istraživanja tijekom posljednjih 20 godina
03:56
that's actually demonstrated it.
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koja su to doista dokazala.
03:58
The question you might ask though is:
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No mogli biste upitati:
04:00
Why do children learn so much?
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zašto djeca uče toliko?
04:03
And how is it possible for them to learn so much
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Kako je moguće da nauče toliko mnogo
04:05
in such a short time?
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u tako malo vremena?
04:07
I mean, after all, if you look at babies superficially,
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Na kraju krajeva, ako površno pogledate bebe
04:09
they seem pretty useless.
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čine se prilično beskorisnima.
04:11
And actually in many ways, they're worse than useless,
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Na mnogo načina čak su i više nego beskorisne
04:14
because we have to put so much time and energy
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jer moramo uložiti toliko vremena i energije
04:16
into just keeping them alive.
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samo da bismo ih održali na životu.
04:18
But if we turn to evolution
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No ako u evoluciji potražimo
04:20
for an answer to this puzzle
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rješenje zagonetke
04:22
of why we spend so much time
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zašto toliko vremena trošimo
04:24
taking care of useless babies,
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na brigu za beskorisne bebe,
04:27
it turns out that there's actually an answer.
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proizlazi da odgovor zapravo postoji.
04:30
If we look across many, many different species of animals,
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Ako pogledamo brojne različite vrste životinja,
04:33
not just us primates,
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ne samo nas primate,
04:35
but also including other mammals, birds,
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no ako uključimo ostale sisavce, ptice,
04:37
even marsupials
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čak tobolčare,
04:39
like kangaroos and wombats,
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kao što su klokani i vombati,
04:41
it turns out that there's a relationship
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proizlazi da postoji veza
04:43
between how long a childhood a species has
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između trajanja djetinjstva određene vrste
04:47
and how big their brains are compared to their bodies
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i veličine njihovih mozgova u usporedbi s tijelom
04:51
and how smart and flexible they are.
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te njihove pameti i fleksibilnosti.
04:53
And sort of the posterbirds for this idea are the birds up there.
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Ptice za ilustraciju ove zamisli ove su ptice ovdje.
04:56
On one side
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S jedne je strane
04:58
is a New Caledonian crow.
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vrana iz Nove Kaledonije.
05:00
And crows and other corvidae, ravens, rooks and so forth,
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Vrane i ostale ptice te porodice, gavrani, gačci itd.,
05:03
are incredibly smart birds.
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nevjerojatno su pametne ptice.
05:05
They're as smart as chimpanzees in some respects.
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U nekim su aspektima pametne kao čimpanze.
05:08
And this is a bird on the cover of science
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Ovo je ptica na naslovnici časopisa Science
05:10
who's learned how to use a tool to get food.
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koja je naučila koristiti alat da bi došla do hrane.
05:13
On the other hand,
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S druge strane,
05:15
we have our friend the domestic chicken.
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imamo našu prijateljicu, domaću kokoš.
05:17
And chickens and ducks and geese and turkeys
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A kokoši, patke, guske i pure
05:20
are basically as dumb as dumps.
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u biti glupe su kao klada.
05:22
So they're very, very good at pecking for grain,
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Veoma su dobre u kljucanju da bi dobile zrno,
05:25
and they're not much good at doing anything else.
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no osim toga nisu baš dobre ni u čemu.
05:28
Well it turns out that the babies,
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Proizlazi da su mladi vrane
05:30
the New Caledonian crow babies, are fledglings.
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zapravo žutokljunci.
05:32
They depend on their moms
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Oni ovise o svojim majkama
05:34
to drop worms in their little open mouths
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i crvima koje im one ispuštaju u otvorena ustašca
05:37
for as long as two years,
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tijekom cijele dvije godine,
05:39
which is a really long time in the life of a bird.
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što je prilično dugo u životu jedne ptice.
05:41
Whereas the chickens are actually mature
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Dok kokoši zapravo sazriju
05:43
within a couple of months.
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za nekoliko mjeseci.
05:45
So childhood is the reason
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Dakle, djetinjstvo je razlog
05:48
why the crows end up on the cover of Science
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zašto vrane završe na naslovnici Sciencea,
05:50
and the chickens end up in the soup pot.
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a kokoši završe u loncu s juhom.
05:52
There's something about that long childhood
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Postoji nešto u vezi s dugim djetinjstvom
05:55
that seems to be connected
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što se čini povezanim
05:57
to knowledge and learning.
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sa znanjem i učenjem.
05:59
Well what kind of explanation could we have for this?
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Kako bismo to mogli objasniti?
06:02
Well some animals, like the chicken,
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Neke životinje, kao što su kokoši,
06:05
seem to be beautifully suited
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savršeno rade
06:07
to doing just one thing very well.
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samo jednu stvar.
06:09
So they seem to be beautifully suited
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Čini se da su savršeno prilagođene
06:12
to pecking grain in one environment.
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za kljucanje zrnja u jednom okruženju.
06:14
Other creatures, like the crows,
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Ostala stvorenja, poput vrana,
06:16
aren't very good at doing anything in particular,
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nisu posebno dobra ni u čemu određenom,
06:18
but they're extremely good
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no iznimno su dobra
06:20
at learning about laws of different environments.
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u učenju zakona o različitim okolinama.
06:22
And of course, we human beings
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A mi, ljudska bića,
06:24
are way out on the end of the distribution like the crows.
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na samome smo kraju te podjele, kao vrane.
06:27
We have bigger brains relative to our bodies
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Imamo puno veće mozgove s obzirom na tijela
06:29
by far than any other animal.
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od bilo koje druge životinje.
06:31
We're smarter, we're more flexible,
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Pametniji smo, prilagodljiviji,
06:33
we can learn more,
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možemo više naučiti,
06:35
we survive in more different environments,
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preživljavamo u više različitih okolina,
06:37
we migrated to cover the world and even go to outer space.
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selidbama smo pokrili cijeli svijet, odlazimo čak i u svemir.
06:40
And our babies and children are dependent on us
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A naše bebe i djeca ovise o nama
06:43
for much longer than the babies of any other species.
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mnogo dulje nego mladunčad bilo koje druge vrste.
06:46
My son is 23.
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Moj sin ima 23 godine.
06:48
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
06:50
And at least until they're 23,
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Najmanje do 23. godine
06:52
we're still popping those worms
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ubacujemo crviće
06:54
into those little open mouths.
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u njihova otvorena ustašca.
06:57
All right, why would we see this correlation?
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Zašto bismo proučavali tu korelaciju?
07:00
Well an idea is that that strategy, that learning strategy,
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Naša je ideja da je ta strategija, ta strategija učenja,
07:04
is an extremely powerful, great strategy for getting on in the world,
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iznimno snažna i značajna strategija za snalaženje u svijetu,
07:07
but it has one big disadvantage.
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no ima jedan veliki nedostatak.
07:09
And that one big disadvantage
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Taj veliki nedostatak
07:11
is that, until you actually do all that learning,
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je da, dok ne naučite sve potrebno,
07:14
you're going to be helpless.
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bit ćete bespomoćni.
07:16
So you don't want to have the mastodon charging at you
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Ne želite se naći u situaciji da mastodont juri na vas
07:19
and be saying to yourself,
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i govoriti si:
07:21
"A slingshot or maybe a spear might work. Which would actually be better?"
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"Praćka bi mi mogla pomoći, ili možda koplje. Što bi bilo bolje?"
07:25
You want to know all that
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Želite znati sve to
07:27
before the mastodons actually show up.
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prije nego što se mastodonti stvarno pojave.
07:29
And the way the evolutions seems to have solved that problem
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Način na koji je evolucija očito riješila taj problem
07:32
is with a kind of division of labor.
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neka je vrsta podjele rada.
07:34
So the idea is that we have this early period when we're completely protected.
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Ideja je da postoji početno razdoblje u kojem smo zaštićeni.
07:37
We don't have to do anything. All we have to do is learn.
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Ne moramo činiti ništa. Moramo samo učiti.
07:40
And then as adults,
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Zatim, kao odrasli
07:42
we can take all those things that we learned when we were babies and children
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uzimamo sve ono što smo naučili kao bebe i djeca
07:45
and actually put them to work to do things out there in the world.
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i upotrijebiti to za razne stvari u stvarnom svijetu.
07:48
So one way of thinking about it
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Jedan od načina na koji možemo razmišljati
07:50
is that babies and young children
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je da su bebe i mala djeca
07:52
are like the research and development division of the human species.
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poput odjela za istraživanja i razvoj ljudske vrste.
07:55
So they're the protected blue sky guys
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Oni su zaštićena grupa na vrhu
07:58
who just have to go out and learn and have good ideas,
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koja samo mora istraživati, učiti i imati dobre ideje,
08:00
and we're production and marketing.
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a mi smo proizvodnja i marketing.
08:02
We have to take all those ideas
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Mi moramo uzeti sve te ideje
08:04
that we learned when we were children
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koje smo naučili kao djeca
08:06
and actually put them to use.
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i upotrijebiti ih.
08:08
Another way of thinking about it
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Drugi način na koji možemo razmišljati
08:10
is instead of thinking of babies and children
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je da, umjesto da smatramo bebe i djecu
08:12
as being like defective grownups,
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manjkavim odraslim ljudima,
08:14
we should think about them
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trebali bismo ih smatrati
08:16
as being a different developmental stage of the same species --
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drukčijim razvojnim stadijem iste vrste --
08:18
kind of like caterpillars and butterflies --
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poput gusjenica i leptira --
08:21
except that they're actually the brilliant butterflies
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osim što su oni zapravo pametni leptirići
08:23
who are flitting around the garden and exploring,
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koji lepršaju po vrtu i istražuju,
08:26
and we're the caterpillars
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a mi smo gusjenice
08:28
who are inching along our narrow, grownup, adult path.
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koje gmižu svojom uskom, zrelom, odraslom stazom.
08:31
If this is true, if these babies are designed to learn --
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Ako je to istina, ako su bebe stvorene da bi učile --
08:34
and this evolutionary story would say children are for learning,
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te bi prema toj evolucijskoj priči djeca bila za učenje,
08:37
that's what they're for --
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to je njihova svrha --
08:39
we might expect
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možemo očekivati
08:41
that they would have really powerful learning mechanisms.
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da imaju iznimno snažne mehanizme učenja.
08:43
And in fact, the baby's brain
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Čini se da je mozak bebe
08:46
seems to be the most powerful learning computer
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najsnažnije računalo za učenje
08:48
on the planet.
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na planetu.
08:50
But real computers are actually getting to be a lot better.
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No prava računala zapravo postaju mnogo bolja.
08:53
And there's been a revolution
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Došlo je do revolucije
08:55
in our understanding of machine learning recently.
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u našem shvaćanju strojnog učenja u zadnje vrijeme.
08:57
And it all depends on the ideas of this guy,
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A sve to ovisi o idejama ovog čovjeka,
09:00
the Reverend Thomas Bayes,
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Velečasnog Thomasa Bayesa,
09:02
who was a statistician and mathematician in the 18th century.
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statističara i matematičara iz 18. stoljeća.
09:05
And essentially what Bayes did
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U biti, ono što je Bayes učinio
09:08
was to provide a mathematical way
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bilo je pružanje matematičkog načina,
09:10
using probability theory
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tj. korištenje teorije vjerojatnosti,
09:12
to characterize, describe,
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za karakterizaciju, opisivanje
09:14
the way that scientists find out about the world.
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načina na koji znanstvenici spoznaju svijet.
09:16
So what scientists do
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Ono što znanstvenici čine
09:18
is they have a hypothesis that they think might be likely to start with.
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je da imaju hipotezu s kojom misle da bi mogli započeti.
09:21
They go out and test it against the evidence.
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Zatim je ispituju pomoću dokaza.
09:23
The evidence makes them change that hypothesis.
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Zbog dokaza moraju izmijeniti tu hipotezu.
09:25
Then they test that new hypothesis
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Zatim ispituju novu hipotezu
09:27
and so on and so forth.
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i tako dalje i tako dalje.
09:29
And what Bayes showed was a mathematical way that you could do that.
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Bayes je pokazao matematički način na koji to možete činiti
09:32
And that mathematics is at the core
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te da je matematika u samoj srži
09:34
of the best machine learning programs that we have now.
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najboljih programa za strojno učenje koje imamo.
09:36
And some 10 years ago,
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Prije nekih 10 godina
09:38
I suggested that babies might be doing the same thing.
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natuknula sam da je moguće da bebe rade istu stvar.
09:42
So if you want to know what's going on
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Dakle, ako želite znati što se događa
09:44
underneath those beautiful brown eyes,
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iza tih prekrasnih smeđih očiju,
09:46
I think it actually looks something like this.
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mislim da ćete dobiti nešto poput ovoga.
09:48
This is Reverend Bayes's notebook.
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Ovo je bilježnica Velečasnog Bayesa.
09:50
So I think those babies are actually making complicated calculations
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Mislim da bebe zapravo izvode komplicirane izračune
09:53
with conditional probabilities that they're revising
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uz moguće vjerojatnosti koje preispituju
09:56
to figure out how the world works.
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kako bi otkrili kako svijet funkcionira.
09:58
All right, now that might seem like an even taller order to actually demonstrate.
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Možda vam se čini da će taj poredak biti još teže dokazati
10:02
Because after all, if you ask even grownups about statistics,
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jer će čak i odrasli,
10:04
they look extremely stupid.
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ispast će glupi.
10:06
How could it be that children are doing statistics?
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Kako je onda moguće da djeca rade statističke izračune?
10:09
So to test this we used a machine that we have
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Da bismo to ispitali koristili smo
10:11
called the Blicket Detector.
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napravu po imenu Blicket Detector.
10:13
This is a box that lights up and plays music
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Radi se o kutiji koja se upali i počne svirati
10:15
when you put some things on it and not others.
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kada stavite točno određene stvari na nju.
10:18
And using this very simple machine,
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Korištenjem ove jednostavne naprave
10:20
my lab and others have done dozens of studies
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moj je laboratorij proveo na desetke istraživanja
10:22
showing just how good babies are
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koja su pokazala koliko bebe dobro
10:24
at learning about the world.
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uče o svijetu.
10:26
Let me mention just one
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Spomenut ću samo jedno
10:28
that we did with Tumar Kushner, my student.
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koje smo proveli s mojim studentom Tumarom Kushnerom.
10:30
If I showed you this detector,
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Kad bih vam pokazala detektor
10:32
you would be likely to think to begin with
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vjerojatno biste pomislili
10:34
that the way to make the detector go
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da možete aktivirati detektor
10:36
would be to put a block on top of the detector.
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tako da stavite blok na vrh.
10:39
But actually, this detector
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No taj detektor
10:41
works in a bit of a strange way.
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radi na pomalo neobičan način.
10:43
Because if you wave a block over the top of the detector,
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Ako mahnete blokom iznad detektora
10:46
something you wouldn't ever think of to begin with,
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na što ne biste ni pomislili,
10:49
the detector will actually activate two out of three times.
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detektor će se aktivirati dva od tri puta.
10:52
Whereas, if you do the likely thing, put the block on the detector,
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No ako učinite očekivano, tj. stavite blok na detektor,
10:55
it will only activate two out of six times.
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on će se aktivirati samo dva od šest puta.
10:59
So the unlikely hypothesis
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Manje vjerojatna hipoteza
11:01
actually has stronger evidence.
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zapravo ima snažnije dokaze.
11:03
It looks as if the waving
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Čini se da je mahanje
11:05
is a more effective strategy than the other strategy.
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učinkovitije od druge navedene strategije.
11:07
So we did just this; we gave four year-olds this pattern of evidence,
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Upravo smo to učinili; dali smo četverogodišnjacima taj uzorak
11:10
and we just asked them to make it go.
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i pitali smo ih da ga aktiviraju.
11:12
And sure enough, the four year-olds used the evidence
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Naravno, četverogodišnjaci su upotrijebili dokaze
11:15
to wave the object on top of the detector.
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i mahali predmetom iznad detektora.
11:18
Now there are two things that are really interesting about this.
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Dvije su stvari u vezi ovoga doista zanimljive.
11:21
The first one is, again, remember, these are four year-olds.
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Jedna je, podsjetimo se, radi se o četverogodišnjacima.
11:24
They're just learning how to count.
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Oni tek uče brojati.
11:26
But unconsciously,
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No nesvjesno
11:28
they're doing these quite complicated calculations
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izvode prilično komplicirane izračune
11:30
that will give them a conditional probability measure.
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koji će im dati mjeru za vjerojatnost.
11:33
And the other interesting thing
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Druga je zanimljiva stvar
11:35
is that they're using that evidence
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da koriste te dokaze
11:37
to get to an idea, get to a hypothesis about the world,
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da bi stvorili ideju, hipotezu o svijetu,
11:40
that seems very unlikely to begin with.
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koja se na samome početku ne čini izglednom.
11:43
And in studies we've just been doing in my lab, similar studies,
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Sličnim ispitivanjima koja trenutno provodimo u mojem laboratoriju
11:46
we've show that four year-olds are actually better
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pokazali smo da su četverogodišnjaci zapravo bolji
11:48
at finding out an unlikely hypothesis
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u otkrivanju manje vjerojatnih hipoteza
11:51
than adults are when we give them exactly the same task.
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nego odrasli, kada im damo potpuno isti zadatak.
11:54
So in these circumstances,
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U tim okolnostima
11:56
the children are using statistics to find out about the world,
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djeca koriste statistiku da bi došla do saznanja o svijetu,
11:59
but after all, scientists also do experiments,
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no na koncu, znanstvenici također izvode pokuse,
12:02
and we wanted to see if children are doing experiments.
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a mi smo željeli saznate izvode li djeca pokuse.
12:05
When children do experiments we call it "getting into everything"
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Kada djeca eksperimentiraju, kažemo da "guraju nos svuda"
12:08
or else "playing."
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ili se "igraju".
12:10
And there's been a bunch of interesting studies recently
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U zadnje je vrijeme provedeno mnoštvo zanimljivih ispitivanja
12:13
that have shown this playing around
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koja pokazuju da je njihovo igranje
12:16
is really a kind of experimental research program.
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zapravo vrsta eksperimentalnog programa istraživanja.
12:18
Here's one from Cristine Legare's lab.
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Navest ću jedno iz laboratorija Cristine Le Gare.
12:21
What Cristine did was use our Blicket Detectors.
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Cristine je upotrijebila naš detektor
12:24
And what she did was show children
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Pokazala je djeci
12:26
that yellow ones made it go and red ones didn't,
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da će ga žuti aktivirati, a crveni neće,
12:28
and then she showed them an anomaly.
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a zatim im je pokazala jednu nepravilnost.
12:31
And what you'll see
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Vidjet ćete
12:33
is that this little boy will go through five hypotheses
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da će ovaj dječačić proći pet hipoteza
12:36
in the space of two minutes.
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unutar dvije minute.
12:39
(Video) Boy: How about this?
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(Videozapis) Dječak: A ovako?
12:43
Same as the other side.
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Isto kao i s druge strane.
12:46
Alison Gopnik: Okay, so his first hypothesis has just been falsified.
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Alison Gopnik: Prva hipoteza upravo se pokazala netočnom.
12:55
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
12:57
Boy: This one lighted up, and this one nothing.
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Dječak: Ova se upalila, a ova nije.
13:00
AG: Okay, he's got his experimental notebook out.
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AG: Pripremio je svoju bilježnicu za eksperimente.
13:06
Boy: What's making this light up.
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Dječak: Kako se ova upali?
13:11
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
13:20
I don't know.
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Ne znam.
13:22
AG: Every scientist will recognize that expression of despair.
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AG: Svaki će znanstvenik prepoznati ovaj izraz očaja.
13:26
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
13:29
Boy: Oh, it's because this needs to be like this,
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Dječak: O, to je zato što mora biti kao ova,
13:35
and this needs to be like this.
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a ova mora biti kao ova.
13:37
AG: Okay, hypothesis two.
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AG: OK, druga hipoteza.
13:40
Boy: That's why.
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Dečko: Eto zašto.
13:42
Oh.
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Oh.
13:44
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
13:49
AG: Now this is his next idea.
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AG: A sada sljedeća ideja.
13:51
He told the experimenter to do this,
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Rekao je eksperimentatorici da učini ovo,
13:53
to try putting it out onto the other location.
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da ga pokuša staviti na drugi.
13:57
Not working either.
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Ni to nije upalilo.
14:02
Boy: Oh, because the light goes only to here,
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Dječak: O, zato što svjetlo ide samo do ovdje,
14:06
not here.
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a ne do ovdje.
14:09
Oh, the bottom of this box
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Dno ove kutije
14:12
has electricity in here,
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ima struju unutra,
14:14
but this doesn't have electricity.
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ali ova nema struju.
14:16
AG: Okay, that's a fourth hypothesis.
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AG: OK, to je četvrta hipoteza.
14:18
Boy: It's lighting up.
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Dječak: Pali se.
14:20
So when you put four.
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Znači kada staviš četiri.
14:26
So you put four on this one to make it light up
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Staviš četiri na ovu da se upali
14:29
and two on this one to make it light up.
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i dva na ovu da se upali.
14:31
AG: Okay,there's his fifth hypothesis.
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AG: OK, eto i pete hipoteze.
14:33
Now that is a particularly --
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To je posebno --
14:36
that is a particularly adorable and articulate little boy,
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posebno simpatičan i rječit dječačić,
14:39
but what Cristine discovered is this is actually quite typical.
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no Cristine je otkrila da je to zapravo prilično tipično.
14:42
If you look at the way children play, when you ask them to explain something,
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Ako pogledate način na koji se djeca igraju, kada ih pitate da nešto objasne,
14:45
what they really do is do a series of experiments.
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oni zapravo izvode niz eksperimenata.
14:48
This is actually pretty typical of four year-olds.
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To je zapravo tipično za četverogodišnjake.
14:51
Well, what's it like to be this kind of creature?
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No, kako je to biti ovakvo stvorenje?
14:54
What's it like to be one of these brilliant butterflies
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Kako je to biti jedan od ovih bistrih leptirića
14:57
who can test five hypotheses in two minutes?
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koji mogu ispitati pet hipoteza u dvije minute?
15:00
Well, if you go back to those psychologists and philosophers,
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Ako se vratimo onim psiholozima i filozofima,
15:03
a lot of them have said
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mnogo ih je reklo
15:05
that babies and young children were barely conscious
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da su bebe i mala djeca jedva svjesna
15:07
if they were conscious at all.
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ako uopće i jesu svjesna.
15:09
And I think just the opposite is true.
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Mislim da je točno upravo suprotno.
15:11
I think babies and children are actually more conscious than we are as adults.
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Mislim da su bebe i djeca zapravo svjesnija nego mi kao odrasli.
15:14
Now here's what we know about how adult consciousness works.
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Evo što znamo o tome kako funkcionira svjesnost odraslih.
15:17
And adults' attention and consciousness
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Pažnja i svijest odraslih
15:19
look kind of like a spotlight.
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izgleda poput snopa svjetlosti.
15:21
So what happens for adults
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Kod odraslih se događa
15:23
is we decide that something's relevant or important,
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da odlučuju je li nešto relevantno ili važno
15:25
we should pay attention to it.
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i trebaju li na to obratiti pažnju.
15:27
Our consciousness of that thing that we're attending to
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Naša svijest o toj stvari koju pratimo
15:29
becomes extremely bright and vivid,
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postaje blještava i jasna
15:32
and everything else sort of goes dark.
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a sve ostalo postaje tamno.
15:34
And we even know something about the way the brain does this.
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Čak i znamo nešto o načinu na koji mozak to radi.
15:37
So what happens when we pay attention
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Kada na nešto obratimo pozornost
15:39
is that the prefrontal cortex, the sort of executive part of our brains,
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prefrontalni korteks, neka vrsta izvršnog dijela mozga,
15:42
sends a signal
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šalje signal
15:44
that makes a little part of our brain much more flexible,
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koji maleni dio mozga čini znatno fleksibilnijim
15:46
more plastic, better at learning,
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gipkijim, sposobnijim za učenje,
15:48
and shuts down activity
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a gasi aktivnost
15:50
in all the rest of our brains.
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u ostalim dijelovima mozga.
15:52
So we have a very focused, purpose-driven kind of attention.
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Naša je pažnja veoma usredotočena, usmjerena na ostvarenje cilja.
15:56
If we look at babies and young children,
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Ako pogledamo bebe i malu djecu
15:58
we see something very different.
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vidjet ćemo nešto veoma različito.
16:00
I think babies and young children
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Mislim da bebe i mala djeca
16:02
seem to have more of a lantern of consciousness
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prije imaju nešto poput lanterne svjesnosti
16:04
than a spotlight of consciousness.
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nego usmjerenog snopa.
16:06
So babies and young children are very bad
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Bebe i mala djeca nisu dobra
16:09
at narrowing down to just one thing.
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u usredotočavanju samo na jednu stvar.
16:12
But they're very good at taking in lots of information
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No veoma su dobre u primanju mnoštva informacija
16:15
from lots of different sources at once.
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iz raznih izvora istovremeno.
16:17
And if you actually look in their brains,
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Ako pogledate njihove mozgove,
16:19
you see that they're flooded with these neurotransmitters
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vidjet ćete da su prepuni neurotransmitera
16:22
that are really good at inducing learning and plasticity,
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koji su dobri u poticanju učenja i prilagodljivosti
16:24
and the inhibitory parts haven't come on yet.
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a inhibitorni se dijelovi nisu još pojavili.
16:27
So when we say that babies and young children
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Kada kažemo da bebe i mala djeca
16:29
are bad at paying attention,
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nisu dobra u obraćanju pozornosti
16:31
what we really mean is that they're bad at not paying attention.
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zapravo mislimo da nisu dobra u neobraćanju pozornosti.
16:35
So they're bad at getting rid
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Nisu dobra u odbacivanju
16:37
of all the interesting things that could tell them something
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svih zanimljivih stvari koje bi im nešto mogle otkriti
16:39
and just looking at the thing that's important.
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i usredotočavanju na jednu stvar koja je bitna.
16:41
That's the kind of attention, the kind of consciousness,
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To je vrsta pozornosti, vrsta svjesnosti,
16:44
that we might expect
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koju možemo očekivati
16:46
from those butterflies who are designed to learn.
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od tih leptirića koji su stvoreni da bi učili.
16:48
Well if we want to think about a way
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Ako želimo razmisliti o načinu
16:50
of getting a taste of that kind of baby consciousness as adults,
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na koji mi kao odrasli možemo dobiti malo dječje svjesnosti,
16:54
I think the best thing is think about cases
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mislim da je najbolje razmisliti o slučajevima
16:56
where we're put in a new situation that we've never been in before --
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kada smo u novoj situaciji u kojoj se nikad prije nismo našli --
16:59
when we fall in love with someone new,
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kada se zaljubimo u nekoga novoga,
17:01
or when we're in a new city for the first time.
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ili kada smo prvi put u novom gradu.
17:04
And what happens then is not that our consciousness contracts,
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Tada se naša svjesnost ne skuplja,
17:06
it expands,
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ona se širi
17:08
so that those three days in Paris
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pa se tri dana u Parizu
17:10
seem to be more full of consciousness and experience
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čine punija svjesnosti i iskustava
17:12
than all the months of being
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nego svi mjeseci u kojima
17:14
a walking, talking, faculty meeting-attending zombie back home.
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kao zombi hodamo, govorimo i idemo na sastanke u svome gradu.
17:18
And by the way, that coffee,
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Usput, ta kava,
17:20
that wonderful coffee you've been drinking downstairs,
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ta izvrsna kava koju ste popili dolje,
17:22
actually mimics the effect
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zapravo oponaša učinak
17:24
of those baby neurotransmitters.
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dječjih neurotransmitera.
17:26
So what's it like to be a baby?
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Kako je to biti beba?
17:28
It's like being in love
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Kao da ste zaljubljeni
17:30
in Paris for the first time
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dok ste prvi put u Parizu
17:32
after you've had three double-espressos.
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nakon što ste popili tri dupla espressa.
17:34
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
17:37
That's a fantastic way to be,
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To je fantastično stanje,
17:39
but it does tend to leave you waking up crying at three o'clock in the morning.
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no moglo bi se dogoditi da se probudite u suzama u tri sata ujutro.
17:43
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
17:46
Now it's good to be a grownup.
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Nije loše biti odrasla osoba.
17:48
I don't want to say too much about how wonderful babies are.
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Ne želim reći previše o tome kako su bebe divne.
17:50
It's good to be a grownup.
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Nije loše biti odrastao.
17:52
We can do things like tie our shoelaces and cross the street by ourselves.
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Sami možemo vezati vezice na cipelama i prelaziti cestu.
17:55
And it makes sense that we put a lot of effort
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Ima smisla to što ulažemo mnogo truda
17:57
into making babies think like adults do.
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da bismo naučili bebe da misle kao odrasli.
18:01
But if what we want is to be like those butterflies,
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No ako želimo biti poput tih leptirića,
18:04
to have open-mindedness, open learning,
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biti otvoreni za nove ideje, spremni na učenje,
18:07
imagination, creativity, innovation,
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maštu, kreativnost, inovacije,
18:09
maybe at least some of the time
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barem dio vremena
18:11
we should be getting the adults
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trebali bismo poticati odrasle
18:13
to start thinking more like children.
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da počnu razmišljati više kao djeca.
18:15
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Alison Gopnik - Child development psychologistAlison Gopnik takes us into the fascinating minds of babies and children, and shows us how much we understand before we even realize we do.
Why you should listen
What’s it really like to see through the eyes of a child? Are babies and young children just empty, irrational vessels to be formed into little adults, until they become the perfect images of ourselves? On the contrary, argues Alison Gopnik, professor of psychology and philosophy at the University of California at Berkeley.
The author of The Philosophical Baby, The Scientist in the Crib and other influential books on cognitive development, Gopnik presents evidence that babies and children are conscious of far more than we give them credit for, as they engage every sense and spend every waking moment discovering, filing away, analyzing and acting on information about how the world works. Gopnik’s work draws on psychological, neuroscientific, and philosophical developments in child development research to understand how the human mind learns, how and why we love, our ability to innovate, as well as giving us a deeper appreciation for the role of parenthood.
She says: "What's it like to be a baby? Being in love in Paris for the first time after you've had 3 double espressos."
Alison Gopnik | Speaker | TED.com