TEDGlobal 2011
Alison Gopnik: What do babies think?
Alison Gopnik: O čem razmišljajo malčki?
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"Malčki in majhni otroci so kot oddelek za raziskave in razvoj človeške vrste," pravi psihologinja Alison Gopnik. Njene študije preiskujejo dovršeno nabiranje inteligence in odločanje, kar malčki v resnici počnejo, medtem ko se igrajo.
Alison Gopnik - Child development psychologist
Alison Gopnik takes us into the fascinating minds of babies and children, and shows us how much we understand before we even realize we do. Full bio
Alison Gopnik takes us into the fascinating minds of babies and children, and shows us how much we understand before we even realize we do. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
What is going on
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O čem premišlja
00:17
in this baby's mind?
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tale malček?
00:19
If you'd asked people this 30 years ago,
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Če bi to koga vprašali pred 30 leti,
00:21
most people, including psychologists,
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bi jih večina, vključno s psihologi,
00:23
would have said that this baby was irrational,
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odgovorila, da je ta malček neracionalen,
00:26
illogical, egocentric --
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nelogičen, egocentričen --
00:28
that he couldn't take the perspective of another person
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da se ne more vživeti v nekoga drugega
00:30
or understand cause and effect.
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in da ne razume vzroka in posledice.
00:32
In the last 20 years,
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V zadnjih 20 letih
00:34
developmental science has completely overturned that picture.
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je znanost o razvoju popolnoma preobrnila to sliko.
00:37
So in some ways,
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Tako nekako
00:39
we think that this baby's thinking
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mislimo, da je premišljanje tega malčka
00:41
is like the thinking of the most brilliant scientists.
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takšno kot je premišljanje najsijajnejših znanstvenikov.
00:45
Let me give you just one example of this.
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Naj podam primer tega.
00:47
One thing that this baby could be thinking about,
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Ena stvar, o kateri bi ta malček lahko premišljal,
00:50
that could be going on in his mind,
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kar bi se lahko odvijalo v njegovem umu,
00:52
is trying to figure out
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je, da poskuša ugotoviti,
00:54
what's going on in the mind of that other baby.
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o čem premišlja ta drugi malček.
00:57
After all, one of the things that's hardest for all of us to do
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Navsezadnje je ena najtežjih stvari za vse nas
01:00
is to figure out what other people are thinking and feeling.
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ugotavljanje, kaj razmišljajo in čutijo drugi ljudje.
01:03
And maybe the hardest thing of all
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In morda je najtežja stvar od vsega
01:05
is to figure out that what other people think and feel
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ugotoviti, da to, kar mislijo in čutijo drugi ljudje,
01:08
isn't actually exactly like what we think and feel.
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dejansko ni točno to, kar mislimo in čutimo sami.
01:10
Anyone who's followed politics can testify
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Kdorkoli je kdaj sledil politiki lahko potrdi,
01:12
to how hard that is for some people to get.
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kako težko je nekaterim ljudem to dojeti.
01:15
We wanted to know
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Želeli smo izvedeti,
01:17
if babies and young children
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če bi malčki in majhni otroci
01:19
could understand this really profound thing about other people.
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razumeli to resnično poglobljeno stvar o drugih ljudeh.
01:22
Now the question is: How could we ask them?
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Ampak vprašanje je, kako bi jih o tem lahko vprašali?
01:24
Babies, after all, can't talk,
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Malčki navsezadnje ne morejo govoriti,
01:26
and if you ask a three year-old
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če pa triletnika prosite,
01:28
to tell you what he thinks,
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naj vam pove, kaj misli,
01:30
what you'll get is a beautiful stream of consciousness monologue
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boste dobili prelep tok zavestnega samogovora
01:33
about ponies and birthdays and things like that.
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o konjičkih in rojstnih dnevih in podobnem.
01:36
So how do we actually ask them the question?
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Torej kako bi jim dejansko postavili to vprašanje?
01:39
Well it turns out that the secret was broccoli.
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No, izkaže se, da je bila skrivnost v brokoliju.
01:42
What we did -- Betty Rapacholi, who was one of my students, and I --
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Kar sva naredili skupaj z Betty Rapasholi, eno mojih študentk --
01:46
was actually to give the babies two bowls of food:
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je bilo to, da sva malčkom dali dve skledici hrane:
01:49
one bowl of raw broccoli
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eno skodelico surovega brokolija
01:51
and one bowl of delicious goldfish crackers.
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in eno skodelico slastnih krekerjev v obliki ribice.
01:54
Now all of the babies, even in Berkley,
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No, prav vsi otroci, celo v Berkleyu,
01:57
like the crackers and don't like the raw broccoli.
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imajo radi krekerje in ne marajo surovega brokolija.
02:00
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
02:02
But then what Betty did
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Betty je potem
02:04
was to take a little taste of food from each bowl.
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poskusila malo jedi v vsaki izmed skodelic.
02:07
And she would act as if she liked it or she didn't.
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Ob tem se je vedla kot da ji je jed všeč oziroma ji ni.
02:09
So half the time, she acted
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V polovici primerov se je vedla
02:11
as if she liked the crackers and didn't like the broccoli --
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kot da so ji všeč krekerji, brokoli pa ne --
02:13
just like a baby and any other sane person.
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enako kot malčki in vsaka oseba pri zdravi pameti.
02:16
But half the time,
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V polovici primerov
02:18
what she would do is take a little bit of the broccoli
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pa je naredila tako, da je vzela malo brokolija
02:20
and go, "Mmmmm, broccoli.
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in rekla: "Mmmmmm, brokoli.
02:23
I tasted the broccoli. Mmmmm."
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Poskusila sem brokoli. Mmmmm".
02:26
And then she would take a little bit of the crackers,
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Nakar je vzela malo krekerjev
02:28
and she'd go, "Eww, yuck, crackers.
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in rekla: "Ooo, bljak krekerji.
02:32
I tasted the crackers. Eww, yuck."
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Poskusila sem krekerje. Ooo, bljak".
02:35
So she'd act as if what she wanted
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Torej pretvarjala se je, da je želela
02:37
was just the opposite of what the babies wanted.
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ravno nasprotno od tega, kar so želeli malčki.
02:40
We did this with 15 and 18 month-old babies.
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To smo izvedli z malčki, starimi 15 in 18 mesecev.
02:42
And then she would simply put her hand out and say,
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Potem je preprosto nastavila roko in rekla:
02:45
"Can you give me some?"
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"Mi daš malo?"
02:47
So the question is: What would the baby give her,
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Vprašanje je torej bilo, kaj ji bo dal malček:
02:49
what they liked or what she liked?
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to, kar ima rad sam ali to, kar ima rada ona?
02:51
And the remarkable thing was that 18 month-old babies,
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In pomembno je, da so ji 18-mesečni malčki,
02:54
just barely walking and talking,
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ki so komaj shodili in spregovorili,
02:56
would give her the crackers if she liked the crackers,
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dali krekerje, če so ji bili všeč krekerji,
02:59
but they would give her the broccoli if she liked the broccoli.
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vendar ji dali brokoli, če ji je bil všeč brokoli.
03:02
On the other hand,
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A po drugi strani
03:04
15 month-olds would stare at her for a long time
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so 15-mesečniki dolgo časa strmeli vanjo,
03:06
if she acted as if she liked the broccoli,
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če se je pretvarjala, da ji je všeč brokoli,
03:08
like they couldn't figure this out.
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kakor da tega ne morejo razumeti.
03:11
But then after they stared for a long time,
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Ampak potem, ko so dolgo časa strmeli,
03:13
they would just give her the crackers,
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so ji preprosto izročili krekerje,
03:15
what they thought everybody must like.
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kot so mislili da je najbrž všeč vsakomur.
03:17
So there are two really remarkable things about this.
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Dve resnično pomembni stvari glede tega sta.
03:20
The first one is that these little 18 month-old babies
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Prva je, da so ti 18-mesečni malčki
03:23
have already discovered
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že odkrili
03:25
this really profound fact about human nature,
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globoko dejstvo o človeški naravi,
03:27
that we don't always want the same thing.
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to je, da nam ni vedno všeč ista stvar.
03:29
And what's more, they felt that they should actually do things
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Še več, čutili so, da bi morali ravnati tako,
03:31
to help other people get what they wanted.
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da drugim pomagajo dobiti, kar želijo.
03:34
Even more remarkably though,
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Še bolj pomembno pa je to,
03:36
the fact that 15 month-olds didn't do this
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da dejstvo, da 15-mesečniki tega niso storili,
03:39
suggests that these 18 month-olds had learned
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navaja na misel, da so se 18-mesečniki
03:42
this deep, profound fact about human nature
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tega globokega, poglobljenega dejstva o človeški
03:45
in the three months from when they were 15 months old.
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naravi naučili v treh mesecih odkar so bili še 15-mesečniki.
03:48
So children both know more and learn more
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Torej otroci znajo več in se naučijo več
03:50
than we ever would have thought.
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kot si sploh lahko mislimo.
03:52
And this is just one of hundreds and hundreds of studies over the last 20 years
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In to je zgolj ena izmed stotin študij skozi zadnjih 20 let,
03:56
that's actually demonstrated it.
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ki so to pokazale.
03:58
The question you might ask though is:
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Vendar bi si lahko zastavili vprašanje:
04:00
Why do children learn so much?
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Zakaj se otroci toliko naučijo?
04:03
And how is it possible for them to learn so much
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In zakaj je mogoče, da se naučijo toliko
04:05
in such a short time?
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v tako kratkem času?
04:07
I mean, after all, if you look at babies superficially,
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Ker, navsezadnje, če na malčke pogledamo malo površno,
04:09
they seem pretty useless.
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se zdi, da so precej nekoristni.
04:11
And actually in many ways, they're worse than useless,
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Dejansko so v mnogih pogledih še slabše kot nekoristni,
04:14
because we have to put so much time and energy
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saj zahteva toliko časa in energije že to,
04:16
into just keeping them alive.
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da jih obdržimo pri življenju.
04:18
But if we turn to evolution
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A če se zatečemo k evoluciji
04:20
for an answer to this puzzle
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da bi našli odgovor na to uganko,
04:22
of why we spend so much time
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zakaj namenimo toliko časa
04:24
taking care of useless babies,
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skrbi za nekoristne malčke,
04:27
it turns out that there's actually an answer.
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se izkaže, da odgovor pravzaprav obstaja.
04:30
If we look across many, many different species of animals,
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Če pregledamo veliko, veliko različnih živalskih vrst,
04:33
not just us primates,
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ne samo nas, primate,
04:35
but also including other mammals, birds,
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temveč tudi druge sesalce, ptiče,
04:37
even marsupials
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celo vrečarje
04:39
like kangaroos and wombats,
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kot so kenguruji in vombati,
04:41
it turns out that there's a relationship
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se izkaže, da obstaja povezava
04:43
between how long a childhood a species has
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med tem, kako dolgo otroštvo ima vrsta,
04:47
and how big their brains are compared to their bodies
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in tem, kako veliki so možgani v primerjavi s telesom,
04:51
and how smart and flexible they are.
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ter tem, kako bistri in fleksibilni so osebki.
04:53
And sort of the posterbirds for this idea are the birds up there.
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Kot ilustracija za to idejo so ptiči tamle zgoraj.
04:56
On one side
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Na eni strani
04:58
is a New Caledonian crow.
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je novokaledonska vrana.
05:00
And crows and other corvidae, ravens, rooks and so forth,
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Vrane in drugi iz vrste corvidae, krokarji, kavke in tako naprej,
05:03
are incredibly smart birds.
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so neverjetno bistri ptiči.
05:05
They're as smart as chimpanzees in some respects.
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V nekaterih pogledih so prav tako bistri kot šimpanzi.
05:08
And this is a bird on the cover of science
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In to je ptič na naslovnici revije Science,
05:10
who's learned how to use a tool to get food.
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ki se je naučil, kako uporabiti orodje, da bi prišel do hrane.
05:13
On the other hand,
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Na drugi strani
05:15
we have our friend the domestic chicken.
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imamo našo prijateljico domačo kokoš.
05:17
And chickens and ducks and geese and turkeys
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Kokoši, race, gosi in purani
05:20
are basically as dumb as dumps.
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pa so butasti kot so le lahko.
05:22
So they're very, very good at pecking for grain,
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Zelo, zelo so dobri pri kljuvanju za zrnjem,
05:25
and they're not much good at doing anything else.
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niso pa kaj prida v ničemer drugem.
05:28
Well it turns out that the babies,
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Izkaže se, da so malčki,
05:30
the New Caledonian crow babies, are fledglings.
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mladički novokalednonske vrane, nebogljenjčki.
05:32
They depend on their moms
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Odvisni so od matere,
05:34
to drop worms in their little open mouths
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ki jim v odprte kljunčke prinaša črve,
05:37
for as long as two years,
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in to kar dve leti,
05:39
which is a really long time in the life of a bird.
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kar je v življenju ptiča resnično dolga doba.
05:41
Whereas the chickens are actually mature
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Medtem ko kokoš dejansko odraste
05:43
within a couple of months.
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v par mesecih.
05:45
So childhood is the reason
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Torej otroštvo je razlog,
05:48
why the crows end up on the cover of Science
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zakaj vrane končajo na naslovnici revije Science,
05:50
and the chickens end up in the soup pot.
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kokoši pa končajo v loncu za juho.
05:52
There's something about that long childhood
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Nekaj v tem dolgem otroštvu
05:55
that seems to be connected
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se zdi kot da je povezano
05:57
to knowledge and learning.
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z znanjem in učenjem.
05:59
Well what kind of explanation could we have for this?
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Kakšno razlago bi lahko našli za to?
06:02
Well some animals, like the chicken,
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No, za nekatere živali, kot na primer za kokoši,
06:05
seem to be beautifully suited
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se zdi, kot da so lepo prilagojene
06:07
to doing just one thing very well.
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za dobro opravljanje le ene stvari.
06:09
So they seem to be beautifully suited
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Torej so videti lepo prilagojene
06:12
to pecking grain in one environment.
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na kljuvanje zrnja v nekem okolju.
06:14
Other creatures, like the crows,
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Druga bitja, kot na primer vrane,
06:16
aren't very good at doing anything in particular,
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niso posebej dobre pri kakšni določeni stvari,
06:18
but they're extremely good
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so pa izredno dobre
06:20
at learning about laws of different environments.
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glede učenja zakonitosti različnih okolj.
06:22
And of course, we human beings
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In seveda smo človeška bitja
06:24
are way out on the end of the distribution like the crows.
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še bolj čez rob statistične porazdelitve kot vrane.
06:27
We have bigger brains relative to our bodies
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Glede na telo imamo zdaleč večje možgane
06:29
by far than any other animal.
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kot katerakoli druga žival.
06:31
We're smarter, we're more flexible,
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Smo bolj bistri, fleksibilni,
06:33
we can learn more,
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lahko se naučimo več,
06:35
we survive in more different environments,
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preživimo v mnogih različnih okoljih,
06:37
we migrated to cover the world and even go to outer space.
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preseljevali smo se in prekrili svet in celo odpotovali v vesolje.
06:40
And our babies and children are dependent on us
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Naši dojenčki in otroci pa so od staršev odvisni
06:43
for much longer than the babies of any other species.
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dlje kot potomci katere koli druge vrste.
06:46
My son is 23.
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Moj sin je star 23 let.
06:48
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
06:50
And at least until they're 23,
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Vsaj dokler ne dosežejo 23 let,
06:52
we're still popping those worms
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jim še vedno prinašamo črve
06:54
into those little open mouths.
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v odprta usteca.
06:57
All right, why would we see this correlation?
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Zakaj bi torej opazili to korelacijo?
07:00
Well an idea is that that strategy, that learning strategy,
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Ena zamisel je, da je ta strategija, strategija učenja,
07:04
is an extremely powerful, great strategy for getting on in the world,
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zelo prodorna, veličastna strategija za to, da uspevamo v svetu,
07:07
but it has one big disadvantage.
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vendar ima veliko pomanjkljivost.
07:09
And that one big disadvantage
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Ta pomanjkljivost je,
07:11
is that, until you actually do all that learning,
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da dokler ne izvedeš vsega tega učenja,
07:14
you're going to be helpless.
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ostajaš nebogljen.
07:16
So you don't want to have the mastodon charging at you
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Tako raje ne srečaš napadajočega mastodonta,
07:19
and be saying to yourself,
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potem pa preudarjaš:
07:21
"A slingshot or maybe a spear might work. Which would actually be better?"
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"Kopje ali sulica bi morda delovalo. Kaj bi bilo pravzaprav boljše?"
07:25
You want to know all that
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Raje vse to že veš,
07:27
before the mastodons actually show up.
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preden se mastodont prikaže.
07:29
And the way the evolutions seems to have solved that problem
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Izgleda, da je evolucija to rešila na tak način,
07:32
is with a kind of division of labor.
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da se nekako deli delo.
07:34
So the idea is that we have this early period when we're completely protected.
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Ideja je, da obstaja to zgodnje obdobje, ko smo popolnoma varovani.
07:37
We don't have to do anything. All we have to do is learn.
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Ni nam treba ničesar. Vse kar moramo je, da se učimo.
07:40
And then as adults,
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Kot odrasli potem
07:42
we can take all those things that we learned when we were babies and children
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lahko vse te stvari, ki smo se jih naučili, ko smo bili malčki in otroci, vzamemo
07:45
and actually put them to work to do things out there in the world.
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in jih udejanjamo v velikem svetu.
07:48
So one way of thinking about it
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Na en način lahko torej smatramo,
07:50
is that babies and young children
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da so malčki in majhni otroci
07:52
are like the research and development division of the human species.
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kot oddelek za raziskave in razvoj človeške vrste.
07:55
So they're the protected blue sky guys
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Da so zaščiteni sanjači,
07:58
who just have to go out and learn and have good ideas,
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ki jim je le treba iti ven in se učiti in imeti dobre zamisli,
08:00
and we're production and marketing.
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proizvodnja in marketing pa smo mi.
08:02
We have to take all those ideas
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Vse ideje,
08:04
that we learned when we were children
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ki smo se jih naučili kot otroci,
08:06
and actually put them to use.
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moramo vzeti in jih uporabiti.
08:08
Another way of thinking about it
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Drug način je,
08:10
is instead of thinking of babies and children
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da namesto da smatramo malčke in otroke
08:12
as being like defective grownups,
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kot odrasle z napako,
08:14
we should think about them
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nanje raje gledamo
08:16
as being a different developmental stage of the same species --
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kot na drugačno razvojno stopnjo iste vrste --
08:18
kind of like caterpillars and butterflies --
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nekako tako kot na gosenice in metulje --
08:21
except that they're actually the brilliant butterflies
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razen da so oni tisti čudoviti metulji,
08:23
who are flitting around the garden and exploring,
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ki letajo po vrtu in raziskujejo,
08:26
and we're the caterpillars
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mi pa smo gosenice,
08:28
who are inching along our narrow, grownup, adult path.
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ki lezejo po naši ozki odrasli poti.
08:31
If this is true, if these babies are designed to learn --
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Če to drži, če so malčki narejeni za učenje --
08:34
and this evolutionary story would say children are for learning,
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in ta evolucijska zgodba bi zatrdila, da so otroci za učenje,
08:37
that's what they're for --
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da je to tisto, za kar so namenjeni --
08:39
we might expect
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bi morda pričakovali,
08:41
that they would have really powerful learning mechanisms.
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da bodo imeli resnično prodorne mehanizme učenja.
08:43
And in fact, the baby's brain
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Dejansko se zdi, da so možgani malčka
08:46
seems to be the most powerful learning computer
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najmogočnejši računalnik za učenje
08:48
on the planet.
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na vsem planetu.
08:50
But real computers are actually getting to be a lot better.
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Pravi računalniki dejansko postajajo mnogo boljši.
08:53
And there's been a revolution
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Nedavno je bila revolucija
08:55
in our understanding of machine learning recently.
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v našem razumevanju strojnega učenja.
08:57
And it all depends on the ideas of this guy,
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Vse na podlagi zamisli nekoga,
09:00
the Reverend Thomas Bayes,
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to je častiti Thomas Bayes,
09:02
who was a statistician and mathematician in the 18th century.
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ki je bil statistik in matematik iz 18. stoletja.
09:05
And essentially what Bayes did
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V osnovi je Bayes
09:08
was to provide a mathematical way
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ponudil matematični način,
09:10
using probability theory
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ki je z uporabo teorije verjetnosti
09:12
to characterize, describe,
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omogočal označevanje in opisovanje,
09:14
the way that scientists find out about the world.
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način, s katerim znanstveniki raziskujejo svet.
09:16
So what scientists do
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Znanstvenik ima najprej
09:18
is they have a hypothesis that they think might be likely to start with.
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hipotezo, s katero bo najbrž začel.
09:21
They go out and test it against the evidence.
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Potem gre in jo preizkuša glede na dokazna dejstva.
09:23
The evidence makes them change that hypothesis.
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Zaradi dokaznih dejstev spreminja to hipotezo.
09:25
Then they test that new hypothesis
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Potem preizkuša tisto novo hipotezo
09:27
and so on and so forth.
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in tako naprej.
09:29
And what Bayes showed was a mathematical way that you could do that.
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Bayes je pokazal matematični način, kako bi bilo to izvedljivo.
09:32
And that mathematics is at the core
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Prav ta matematika je sedaj v osrčju
09:34
of the best machine learning programs that we have now.
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najboljših programov za strojno učenje, kar jih imamo.
09:36
And some 10 years ago,
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Pred približno 10 leti
09:38
I suggested that babies might be doing the same thing.
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sem predlagala idejo, da malčki najbrž delajo isto.
09:42
So if you want to know what's going on
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Če vas torej zanima, kaj se odvija
09:44
underneath those beautiful brown eyes,
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za temi lepimi rjavimi očmi,
09:46
I think it actually looks something like this.
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menim, da je videti kot nekaj takega.
09:48
This is Reverend Bayes's notebook.
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Tole je beležnica častitega Bayesa.
09:50
So I think those babies are actually making complicated calculations
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Menim, da malčki dejansko izvajajo komplicirane izračune
09:53
with conditional probabilities that they're revising
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s pogojnimi verjetnostmi, ki jih nato ponovno pretehtajo,
09:56
to figure out how the world works.
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zato da bi ugotovili, kako deluje svet.
09:58
All right, now that might seem like an even taller order to actually demonstrate.
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Prav, to je najbrž še bolj nemogoče dejansko pokazati.
10:02
Because after all, if you ask even grownups about statistics,
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Saj že če odrasle sprašujemo o statistiki,
10:04
they look extremely stupid.
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začnejo neumno gledati.
10:06
How could it be that children are doing statistics?
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Kako bi torej otroci mogli izvajati statistiko?
10:09
So to test this we used a machine that we have
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Da bi to preverili, smo uporabili napravo,
10:11
called the Blicket Detector.
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ki smo jo poimenovali Blicket Detector.
10:13
This is a box that lights up and plays music
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To je škatla, ki zasveti in zaigra glasbo,
10:15
when you put some things on it and not others.
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kadar nanjo položiš določene stvari, kadar položiš druge, pa ne.
10:18
And using this very simple machine,
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S to preprosto napravo
10:20
my lab and others have done dozens of studies
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smo pri nas v laboratoriju in tudi drugod opravili številne raziskave,
10:22
showing just how good babies are
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ki kažejo, kako dobri so otroci
10:24
at learning about the world.
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pri učenju o svetu.
10:26
Let me mention just one
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Naj omenim le eno,
10:28
that we did with Tumar Kushner, my student.
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ki sva jo naredila moj študent Tumar Kushner in jaz.
10:30
If I showed you this detector,
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Če bi vam pokazala ta detektor,
10:32
you would be likely to think to begin with
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bi najbrž spočetka menili,
10:34
that the way to make the detector go
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da se detektor sproži tako,
10:36
would be to put a block on top of the detector.
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da nanj postavite kocko.
10:39
But actually, this detector
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Vendar ta detektor
10:41
works in a bit of a strange way.
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deluje na malo nenavaden način.
10:43
Because if you wave a block over the top of the detector,
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Če s kocko pomahate nad detektorjem,
10:46
something you wouldn't ever think of to begin with,
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česar se najbrž sploh ne bi spomnili,
10:49
the detector will actually activate two out of three times.
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se bo detektor sprožil v dveh primerih od treh.
10:52
Whereas, if you do the likely thing, put the block on the detector,
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Če pa kocko položite nanj, kar bi najbrž storili,
10:55
it will only activate two out of six times.
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se bo sprožil le v dveh primerih od šestih.
10:59
So the unlikely hypothesis
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Torej manj verjetna hipoteza
11:01
actually has stronger evidence.
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je bolj podprta z dokaznimi dejstvi.
11:03
It looks as if the waving
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Videti je, da je mahanje nad detektorjem
11:05
is a more effective strategy than the other strategy.
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bolj učinkovita strategija kot tista druga strategija.
11:07
So we did just this; we gave four year-olds this pattern of evidence,
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Napravili smo ravno tako: štiriletnikom smo dali opisan vzorec dokaznih dejstev
11:10
and we just asked them to make it go.
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in jih prosili, naj začnejo.
11:12
And sure enough, the four year-olds used the evidence
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In zagotovo so štiriletniki uporabili dokazna dejstva za to,
11:15
to wave the object on top of the detector.
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da so s kocko pomahali nad detektorjem.
11:18
Now there are two things that are really interesting about this.
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Pri tem sta dve resnično zanimivi stvari.
11:21
The first one is, again, remember, these are four year-olds.
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Najprej, spomnite se, da gre za štiriletnike.
11:24
They're just learning how to count.
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Ravno se učijo šteti.
11:26
But unconsciously,
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Vendar nezavedno
11:28
they're doing these quite complicated calculations
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izvajajo te kar zapletene izračune,
11:30
that will give them a conditional probability measure.
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ki jim bodo povedali mero pogojne verjetnosti.
11:33
And the other interesting thing
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Druga zanimiva stvar pa je,
11:35
is that they're using that evidence
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da dokazna dejstva uporabljajo za to,
11:37
to get to an idea, get to a hypothesis about the world,
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da bi dobili zamisel, hipotezo o svetu,
11:40
that seems very unlikely to begin with.
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s katero najbrž ne bi začeli.
11:43
And in studies we've just been doing in my lab, similar studies,
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V podobnih študijah, ki jih smo jih ravno delali v našem laboratoriju,
11:46
we've show that four year-olds are actually better
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smo pokazali, da so štiriletniki pravzaprav boljši
11:48
at finding out an unlikely hypothesis
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pri odkrivanju manj verjetne hipoteze
11:51
than adults are when we give them exactly the same task.
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kot pa odrasli, ki jim damo točno isto nalogo.
11:54
So in these circumstances,
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V teh okoliščinah torej
11:56
the children are using statistics to find out about the world,
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otroci uporabljajo statistiko za odkrivanje sveta,
11:59
but after all, scientists also do experiments,
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vendar znanstveniki delajo tudi poskuse
12:02
and we wanted to see if children are doing experiments.
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in nas je zanimalo, če tudi otroci delajo poskuse.
12:05
When children do experiments we call it "getting into everything"
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Kadar otroci delajo poskuse, temu rečemo da "vtaknejo nos povsod"
12:08
or else "playing."
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oziroma da "se igrajo".
12:10
And there's been a bunch of interesting studies recently
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Pred kratkim je bilo kar nekaj zanimivih študij,
12:13
that have shown this playing around
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ki so pokazale, da je to igračkanje
12:16
is really a kind of experimental research program.
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v resnici nekakšen eksperimentalen raziskovalni program.
12:18
Here's one from Cristine Legare's lab.
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Tukaj je študija iz laboratorija Christine Legare.
12:21
What Cristine did was use our Blicket Detectors.
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Christine je uporabila našo napravo Blicket Detector.
12:24
And what she did was show children
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Otrokom je pokazala,
12:26
that yellow ones made it go and red ones didn't,
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da rumene kocke detektor sprožijo, rdeče pa ne,
12:28
and then she showed them an anomaly.
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potem pa jim je pokazala nepravilnost v delovanju.
12:31
And what you'll see
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Na posnetku boste videli,
12:33
is that this little boy will go through five hypotheses
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kako je mali fantič preizkusil pet različnih hipotez
12:36
in the space of two minutes.
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v roku dveh minut.
12:39
(Video) Boy: How about this?
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(Video) Fantič: Kaj pa takole?
12:43
Same as the other side.
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Isto kot na drugi strani.
12:46
Alison Gopnik: Okay, so his first hypothesis has just been falsified.
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Alison Gopnik: V redu, njegova prva hipoteza je bila ovržena.
12:55
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
12:57
Boy: This one lighted up, and this one nothing.
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Fantič: Tale se je prižgala, tale pa nič.
13:00
AG: Okay, he's got his experimental notebook out.
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AG: V redu, njegova eksperimentalna beležnica je tu.
13:06
Boy: What's making this light up.
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Fantič: Kaj naredi, da se to prižge.
13:11
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
13:20
I don't know.
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Ne vem.
13:22
AG: Every scientist will recognize that expression of despair.
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AG: Vsak znanstvenik bo prepoznal ta izraz obupa.
13:26
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
13:29
Boy: Oh, it's because this needs to be like this,
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Fantič: O, tole mora biti tako kot to,
13:35
and this needs to be like this.
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tole pa tako kot to.
13:37
AG: Okay, hypothesis two.
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AG: V redu, hipoteza dve.
13:40
Boy: That's why.
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Fantič: A, zato.
13:42
Oh.
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O.
13:44
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
13:49
AG: Now this is his next idea.
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AG: Tole je njegova naslednja zamisel.
13:51
He told the experimenter to do this,
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Eksperimentatorja je prosil, naj naredi takole,
13:53
to try putting it out onto the other location.
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naj postavi gor na drugo mesto.
13:57
Not working either.
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Tudi ne deluje.
14:02
Boy: Oh, because the light goes only to here,
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Fantič: Oh, to je zato, ker gre luč samo semle,
14:06
not here.
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semle pa ne.
14:09
Oh, the bottom of this box
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O, dno te škatle
14:12
has electricity in here,
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ima notri elektriko,
14:14
but this doesn't have electricity.
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tale pa nima elektrike.
14:16
AG: Okay, that's a fourth hypothesis.
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AG: V redu, to je četrta hipoteza.
14:18
Boy: It's lighting up.
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Fantič: Prižgala se je.
14:20
So when you put four.
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Torej če postaviš štiri.
14:26
So you put four on this one to make it light up
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Torej na tole postaviš štiri, da se prižge,
14:29
and two on this one to make it light up.
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na tole pa dve, da se prižge.
14:31
AG: Okay,there's his fifth hypothesis.
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AG: V redu, to je njegova peta hipoteza.
14:33
Now that is a particularly --
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Tole je posebej,
14:36
that is a particularly adorable and articulate little boy,
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še posebej očarljiv in zgovoren fantič,
14:39
but what Cristine discovered is this is actually quite typical.
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vendar je Christine odkrila, da je to pravzaprav kar tipično.
14:42
If you look at the way children play, when you ask them to explain something,
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Če opazujete, kako se otroci igrajo, če jih prosite, naj nekaj razložijo,
14:45
what they really do is do a series of experiments.
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pravzaprav izvedejo vrsto poskusov.
14:48
This is actually pretty typical of four year-olds.
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To je za štiriletnike precej tipično.
14:51
Well, what's it like to be this kind of creature?
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Kako je, če si takšno bitje?
14:54
What's it like to be one of these brilliant butterflies
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Kako je, če si eden od teh sijajnih metuljev,
14:57
who can test five hypotheses in two minutes?
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ki lahko v dveh minutah testira pet hipotez?
15:00
Well, if you go back to those psychologists and philosophers,
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No, če gremo v preteklost k tistim psihologom in filozofom,
15:03
a lot of them have said
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jih je veliko reklo,
15:05
that babies and young children were barely conscious
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da so majhni otroci komaj zavestni,
15:07
if they were conscious at all.
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če sploh so zavestni.
15:09
And I think just the opposite is true.
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Jaz pa menim, da je res ravno nasprotno.
15:11
I think babies and children are actually more conscious than we are as adults.
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Menim, da so malčki in otroci bolj zavestni kot smo mi, ki smo odrasli.
15:14
Now here's what we know about how adult consciousness works.
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O tem, kako deluje zavest odraslega, vemo tole.
15:17
And adults' attention and consciousness
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Pozornost in zavest odraslega
15:19
look kind of like a spotlight.
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izgledata kot žaromet.
15:21
So what happens for adults
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Kar se zgodi pri odraslem je to,
15:23
is we decide that something's relevant or important,
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da ko se odločimo, da je nekaj relevantno ali pomembno,
15:25
we should pay attention to it.
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pozornost usmerimo na to.
15:27
Our consciousness of that thing that we're attending to
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Naše zavedanje o tem, na kar smo pozorni,
15:29
becomes extremely bright and vivid,
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postane skrajno svetlo in živo,
15:32
and everything else sort of goes dark.
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vse ostalo postane nekako zatemnjeno.
15:34
And we even know something about the way the brain does this.
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Celo nekaj vemo o tem, kako možgani to izvedejo.
15:37
So what happens when we pay attention
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Ko smo na nekaj pozorni,
15:39
is that the prefrontal cortex, the sort of executive part of our brains,
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se od korteksa, ki je na nek način izvršilni del naših možganov,
15:42
sends a signal
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sproži signal,
15:44
that makes a little part of our brain much more flexible,
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ki majhen del možganov napravi bolj elastičen,
15:46
more plastic, better at learning,
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bolj upogibljiv, bolj učeč,
15:48
and shuts down activity
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in utiša aktivnost
15:50
in all the rest of our brains.
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v drugih delih možganov.
15:52
So we have a very focused, purpose-driven kind of attention.
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Torej imamo zelo osredotočeno in namensko vrsto pozornosti.
15:56
If we look at babies and young children,
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Če pogledamo malčke in majhen otroke,
15:58
we see something very different.
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opazimo nekaj popolnoma drugega.
16:00
I think babies and young children
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Menim, da imajo malčki in majhni otroci
16:02
seem to have more of a lantern of consciousness
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najbrž bolj svetilko zavesti
16:04
than a spotlight of consciousness.
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kot pa žaromet zavesti.
16:06
So babies and young children are very bad
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Malčki in majhni otroci niso dobri v tem,
16:09
at narrowing down to just one thing.
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kako se omejiti na zgolj eno stvar.
16:12
But they're very good at taking in lots of information
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So pa zelo dobri v tem, kako sprejemati veliko informacij
16:15
from lots of different sources at once.
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iz mnogih različnih virov naenkrat.
16:17
And if you actually look in their brains,
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In če pogledate v njihove možgane,
16:19
you see that they're flooded with these neurotransmitters
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opazite, da so preplavljeni z nevrotransmiterji,
16:22
that are really good at inducing learning and plasticity,
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ki so res dobri v tem, da spodbujajo učenje in upogibljivost,
16:24
and the inhibitory parts haven't come on yet.
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tisti del, ki utiša možgane, pa še ni razvit.
16:27
So when we say that babies and young children
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Ko rečemo, da so malčki in majhni otroci
16:29
are bad at paying attention,
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slabi v usmerjanju pozornosti,
16:31
what we really mean is that they're bad at not paying attention.
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v resnici pravzaprav mislimo, da so slabi v tem, da ne usmerjajo pozornosti.
16:35
So they're bad at getting rid
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Slabi so v tem, kako se znebiti
16:37
of all the interesting things that could tell them something
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vseh zanimivih stvari, ki bi jim lahko kaj povedale
16:39
and just looking at the thing that's important.
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in gledati samo stvar, ki je pomembna.
16:41
That's the kind of attention, the kind of consciousness,
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To je taka vrsta pozornosti, taka vrsta zavesti,
16:44
that we might expect
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ki bi jo pričakovali
16:46
from those butterflies who are designed to learn.
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od takih metuljev, ki so narejeni za učenje.
16:48
Well if we want to think about a way
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Če si hočemo zamisliti način,
16:50
of getting a taste of that kind of baby consciousness as adults,
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kako bi okusili tako otroško zavest v naši odrasli dobi,
16:54
I think the best thing is think about cases
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menim, da se je najbolje spomniti primerov,
16:56
where we're put in a new situation that we've never been in before --
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ko smo bili postavljeni v situacijo, v kateri še nismo bili --
16:59
when we fall in love with someone new,
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ko se zaljubimo v nekoga
17:01
or when we're in a new city for the first time.
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ali ko smo prvič v nekem novem mestu.
17:04
And what happens then is not that our consciousness contracts,
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Kar se zgodi je, da se naša zavest ne skrči
17:06
it expands,
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ampak se razširi,
17:08
so that those three days in Paris
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tako da se tisti trije dnevi v Parizu
17:10
seem to be more full of consciousness and experience
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zdijo bolj polni zavesti in izkustev
17:12
than all the months of being
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kot pa celi meseci, ko ste nazaj doma
17:14
a walking, talking, faculty meeting-attending zombie back home.
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in zgolj hodeči, govoreči, sestankujoči sodelavec-zombi.
17:18
And by the way, that coffee,
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In mimogrede, kava,
17:20
that wonderful coffee you've been drinking downstairs,
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ta čudovita kava, ki ste jo pili prejle spodaj,
17:22
actually mimics the effect
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dejansko posnema
17:24
of those baby neurotransmitters.
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učinek tistih otroških nevrotransmiterjev.
17:26
So what's it like to be a baby?
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Torej kako je torej biti malček?
17:28
It's like being in love
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Tako, kot da ste zaljubljeni,
17:30
in Paris for the first time
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prvič v Parizu,
17:32
after you've had three double-espressos.
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potem ko ste popili tri dvojne ekspresne kave.
17:34
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
17:37
That's a fantastic way to be,
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Fantastično počutje,
17:39
but it does tend to leave you waking up crying at three o'clock in the morning.
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vendar pa teži k temu, da se v joku zbujate ob treh zjutraj.
17:43
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
17:46
Now it's good to be a grownup.
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No, v redu je biti odrasel.
17:48
I don't want to say too much about how wonderful babies are.
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Ne bi želela govoriti preveč o tem, kako krasni so malčki.
17:50
It's good to be a grownup.
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Dobro je biti odrasel.
17:52
We can do things like tie our shoelaces and cross the street by ourselves.
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Zmoremo stvari kot je zavezovanje vezalk in samostojno prečkanje ceste.
17:55
And it makes sense that we put a lot of effort
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In smiselno je, da vložimo veliko truda v to,
17:57
into making babies think like adults do.
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da malčke pripravimo k temu, da začnejo misliti kot odrasli.
18:01
But if what we want is to be like those butterflies,
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Ampak če bi radi bili bolj kot tisti metulji,
18:04
to have open-mindedness, open learning,
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da bi imeli odprtega duha, odprtost za učenje,
18:07
imagination, creativity, innovation,
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domišljijo, ustvarjalnost, inovativnost,
18:09
maybe at least some of the time
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bi morali vsaj občasno
18:11
we should be getting the adults
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odrasle pripraviti do tega,
18:13
to start thinking more like children.
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da bi začeli misliti bolj tako kot otroci.
18:15
(Applause)
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(Aplavz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Alison Gopnik - Child development psychologistAlison Gopnik takes us into the fascinating minds of babies and children, and shows us how much we understand before we even realize we do.
Why you should listen
What’s it really like to see through the eyes of a child? Are babies and young children just empty, irrational vessels to be formed into little adults, until they become the perfect images of ourselves? On the contrary, argues Alison Gopnik, professor of psychology and philosophy at the University of California at Berkeley.
The author of The Philosophical Baby, The Scientist in the Crib and other influential books on cognitive development, Gopnik presents evidence that babies and children are conscious of far more than we give them credit for, as they engage every sense and spend every waking moment discovering, filing away, analyzing and acting on information about how the world works. Gopnik’s work draws on psychological, neuroscientific, and philosophical developments in child development research to understand how the human mind learns, how and why we love, our ability to innovate, as well as giving us a deeper appreciation for the role of parenthood.
She says: "What's it like to be a baby? Being in love in Paris for the first time after you've had 3 double espressos."
Alison Gopnik | Speaker | TED.com