TED2015
Trevor Aaronson: How this FBI strategy is actually creating US-based terrorists
特雷弗·阿伦森: 联邦调查局的策略如何造就了美国的恐怖分子
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有一个组织，它在美国实施的恐怖主义阴谋比“基地组织”，“索马里青年党”和“伊拉克和沙姆伊斯兰国”加起来还多，这个组织就是联邦调查局。为什么会这样？这是一次令人眼界大开的演讲，调查记者特雷弗·阿伦森披露了联邦调查局利用患有精神疾病并具有穆斯林背景的美国人，培养他们成为“恐怖分子”的勾当。
Trevor Aaronson - Journalist
An investigative journalist who reports on the FBI’s misuse of informants in counterterrorism operations, Trevor Aaronson asks the question: Is the United States catching terrorists or creating them? Full bio
An investigative journalist who reports on the FBI’s misuse of informants in counterterrorism operations, Trevor Aaronson asks the question: Is the United States catching terrorists or creating them? Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
The FBI is responsible
for more terrorism plots
for more terrorism plots
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联邦调查局是在美国的
多起恐怖主义阴谋的
多起恐怖主义阴谋的
00:15
in the United States
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幕后黑手，
00:17
than any other organization.
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数量比其他任何组织都要多。
00:19
More than al Qaeda,
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比“基地组织”，
00:21
more than al Shabaab,
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比“索马里青年党”，
00:23
more than the Islamic State,
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比“伊拉克和沙姆伊斯兰国”都多，
00:24
more than all of them combined.
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甚至比他们加起来都多。
00:27
This isn't likely how you
think about the FBI.
think about the FBI.
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这跟你们印象中的联邦调查局
大相径庭吧。
大相径庭吧。
00:30
You probably think of FBI agents
gunning down bad guys like John Dillinger,
gunning down bad guys like John Dillinger,
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印象中的联邦调查局特工应该
逮捕约翰·迪林杰这样的坏蛋，
逮捕约翰·迪林杰这样的坏蛋，
00:34
or arresting corrupt politicians.
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或者将腐败的政客绳之以法。
00:37
After the 9/11 terrorist attacks,
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在“9·11”恐怖袭击之后，
00:38
the FBI became less concerned
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联邦调查局无暇顾及
00:40
with gangsters and
crooked elected officials.
crooked elected officials.
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匪徒或者官员中的败类。
00:42
The new target became terrorists,
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恐怖分子是他们的新目标，
00:45
and the pursuit of terrorists
has consumed the FBI.
has consumed the FBI.
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而追捕恐怖分子
让联邦调查局焦头烂额。
让联邦调查局焦头烂额。
每年，联邦调查局花费33亿美元
00:48
Every year, the Bureau spends
3.3 billion dollars
3.3 billion dollars
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00:51
on domestic counterterrorism activities.
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用于国内反恐。
00:54
Compare than to just 2.6 billion dollars
combined for organized crime,
combined for organized crime,
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相比之下，用于调查有组织犯罪，
00:57
financial fraud, public corruption
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金融诈骗，官员腐败等
00:59
and all other types of traditional
criminal activity.
criminal activity.
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传统犯罪行为的资金
加起来才26亿美元。
加起来才26亿美元。
01:02
I've spent years pouring through
the case files
the case files
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我花了好几年时间研究了
01:04
of terrorism prosecutions in
the United States,
the United States,
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美国的涉恐案卷，
01:07
and I've come to
the conclusion that the FBI
the conclusion that the FBI
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我得出一个结论：联邦调查局
更擅长培养恐怖分子，
而不是逮捕他们。
而不是逮捕他们。
01:10
is much better at creating terrorists
than it is at catching terrorists.
than it is at catching terrorists.
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01:15
In the 14 years since 9/11,
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“9·11”发生后的14年间，
01:17
you can count about six real
terrorist attacks in the United States.
terrorist attacks in the United States.
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美国本土发生了6起恐怖袭击。
01:20
These include the Boston Marathon
bombings in 2013,
bombings in 2013,
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包括2013年的波士顿马拉松爆炸案，
01:23
as well as failed attacks,
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和其他几起未遂案例，
01:25
such as the time when
a man named Faisal Shahzad
a man named Faisal Shahzad
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比如一个叫费萨尔·沙赫扎德的人
01:27
tried to deliver a car bomb
to Times Square.
to Times Square.
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计划在时代广场引爆汽车炸弹。
01:30
In those same 14 years,
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同样在这14年间，
01:32
the Bureau, however, has bragged
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联邦调查局却不停在吹嘘
01:33
about how it's foiled dozens
of terrorism plots.
of terrorism plots.
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他们挫败了数十起恐怖主义阴谋。
01:36
In all, the FBI has arrested
more than 175 people
more than 175 people
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联邦调查局通过激进、
秘密的反恐骗局
秘密的反恐骗局
01:41
in aggressive, undercover
conterterrorism stings.
conterterrorism stings.
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总共逮捕了超过175人。
01:44
These operations, which are usually
led by an informant,
led by an informant,
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这些行动，通常由
联邦调查局的线人领导，
联邦调查局的线人领导，
01:47
provide the means and opportunity,
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他们出谋划策，提供机会
01:49
and sometimes even the idea,
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甚至直接授意，
01:51
for mentally ill and
economically desperate people
economically desperate people
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将那些有精神问题和穷困潦倒的人
01:54
to become what we now term terrorists.
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变成我们现在所谓的恐怖分子。
01:58
After 9/11, the FBI was given an edict:
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“9·11”之后，
联邦调查局接到的命令是：
联邦调查局接到的命令是：
02:00
never again.
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不再发生。
02:01
Never another attack on American soil.
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不允许恐怖袭击在美国本土再次发生。
联邦调查局特工奉命将恐怖袭击
消灭在萌芽状态。
消灭在萌芽状态。
02:04
FBI agents were told to find terrorists
before they struck.
before they struck.
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02:07
To do this, agents recruited a network
of more than 15,000 informants nationwide,
of more than 15,000 informants nationwide,
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为完成任务，特工们在全国范围内
招募了超过15000名线人，
招募了超过15000名线人，
02:12
all looking for anyone who
might be dangerous.
might be dangerous.
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寻找任何可能带来危险的人。
02:15
An informant can earn
100,000 dollars or more
100,000 dollars or more
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上报一件恐怖主义案件，
02:17
for every terrorism case
they bring to the FBI.
they bring to the FBI.
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线人能从联邦调查局得到
超过10万美元的酬劳。
超过10万美元的酬劳。
02:20
That's right, the FBI is paying
mostly criminals and con men
mostly criminals and con men
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你没听错，联邦调查局支付给
这些线人——主要是罪犯和帮派分子——
这些线人——主要是罪犯和帮派分子——
02:24
six figures to spy on communities
in the United States,
in the United States,
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6位数的酬劳让他们监视美国社群，
02:26
but mostly Muslim American communities.
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主要是美国的穆斯林社群。
这些线人逮捕
像阿布·哈立德·阿卜杜勒·拉蒂夫
像阿布·哈立德·阿卜杜勒·拉蒂夫
02:30
These informants nab people like
Abu Khalid Abdul-Latif
Abu Khalid Abdul-Latif
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02:33
and Walli Mujahidh.
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和瓦利·穆加赫德这样的人。
他们都患有精神疾病。
02:35
Both are mentally ill.
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02:36
Abdul-Latif had a history of huffing
gasoline and attempting suicide.
gasoline and attempting suicide.
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阿卜杜勒·拉蒂夫
曾喝过汽油并试图自杀。
曾喝过汽油并试图自杀。
02:40
Mujahidh had schizoaffective disorder,
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穆加赫德患有精神分裂症，
02:42
he had trouble distinguishing between
reality and fantasy.
reality and fantasy.
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无力区分真实和幻想。
02:45
In 2012, the FBI arrested these two men
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2012年，联邦调查局逮捕了上述两人，
02:48
for conspiring to attack a military
recruiting station outside Seattle
recruiting station outside Seattle
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罪名是密谋袭击
西雅图郊外的一处征兵站，
西雅图郊外的一处征兵站，
02:52
with weapons provided,
of course, by the FBI.
of course, by the FBI.
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而他们的武器，毫无疑问，
正是联邦调查局提供的。
正是联邦调查局提供的。
02:56
The FBI's informant was Robert Childs,
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这个案子的线人名叫罗伯特·柴尔兹，
02:59
a convicted rapist and child molester
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有强奸和猥亵儿童的前科，
03:01
who was paid 90,000 dollars
for his work on the case.
for his work on the case.
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因为这个案子他赚了9万美元。
这并不是偶然现象。
03:04
This isn't an outlier.
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2009年，一名联邦调查局的线人，
曾因犯谋杀罪逃离巴基斯坦，
曾因犯谋杀罪逃离巴基斯坦，
03:05
In 2009, an FBI informant
who had fled Pakistan on murder charges
who had fled Pakistan on murder charges
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03:09
led four men in a plot to bomb
synagogues in the Bronx.
synagogues in the Bronx.
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指挥四个人密谋炸毁
（纽约）布朗克斯区的一处犹太教堂。
（纽约）布朗克斯区的一处犹太教堂。
第一被告名叫詹姆斯·克罗米蒂，
03:13
The lead defendant was James Cromitie,
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03:15
a broke Walmart employee
with a history of mental problems.
with a history of mental problems.
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是一名有精神病史的
沃尔玛破产员工。
沃尔玛破产员工。
03:18
And the informant had offered
him 250,000 dollars
him 250,000 dollars
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这名线人给了他25万美元，
03:21
if he participated in that plot.
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让他参加这次袭击。
03:23
There are many more examples.
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这样的例子还有很多。
03:26
Today, The Intercept
published my new story
published my new story
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今天，“拦截”网站发表了我的新文章，
03:28
about a counterterrorism sting in Tampa
involving Sami Osmakac,
involving Sami Osmakac,
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是关于在坦帕的一起反恐阴谋，
当事人叫萨米·奥斯马卡什，
当事人叫萨米·奥斯马卡什，
03:32
a young man who was living
near Tampa, Florida.
near Tampa, Florida.
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他是一名住在佛罗里达州
坦帕市附近的年轻人。
坦帕市附近的年轻人。
奥斯马卡什同样患有精神分裂症。
03:35
Osmakac also had
schizoaffective disorder.
schizoaffective disorder.
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同样穷困潦倒，
03:37
He too was broke,
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03:38
and he had no connections to
international terrorist groups.
international terrorist groups.
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与国际恐怖主义组织毫无关联。
尽管如此，
03:41
Nonetheless,
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03:42
an FBI informant gave him a job,
handed him money,
handed him money,
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联邦调查局的一名线人还是
给了他一份工作，交给他一笔钱，
给了他一份工作，交给他一笔钱，
将他介绍给一名伪装成
恐怖分子的联邦调查局探员，
恐怖分子的联邦调查局探员，
03:46
introduced him to an undercover agent
posing as a terrorist,
posing as a terrorist,
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03:49
and lured him in a plot
to bomb an Irish bar.
to bomb an Irish bar.
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引诱他去炸毁一家爱尔兰酒吧。
03:52
But here's what's interesting:
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有意思的是：
03:54
The lead undercover agent --
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领头的卧底特工，
03:56
you can see him in this picture
with his face blurred --
with his face blurred --
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就是照片里打了马赛克这位，
回到了在坦帕的区办公室，
身上带着录音设备。
身上带着录音设备。
03:58
would go back to the Tampa field office
with his recording equipment on.
with his recording equipment on.
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04:02
Behind closed doors,
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私底下，
联邦调查局探员承认
自己的所作所为是荒谬的。
自己的所作所为是荒谬的。
04:03
FBI agents admitted that what
they were doing was farcical.
they were doing was farcical.
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04:06
A federal judge doesn't want you
to hear about these conversations.
to hear about these conversations.
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一位联邦法官不想公开这些谈话。
04:10
He sealed the transcripts and placed
them under a protective order
them under a protective order
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他将谈话记录封存，严加看管，
防止像我这样的人将其公之于众。
04:13
in an attempt to prevent someone like me
from doing something like this.
from doing something like this.
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私底下，这名领头的探员，
04:17
Behind closed doors, the lead agent,
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04:19
the squad supervisor,
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小队队长，
04:20
described their would-be terrorist
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将这些未来的”恐怖分子“，
04:22
as a "retarded fool who didn't have
a pot to piss in."
a pot to piss in."
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描述为“穷困潦倒的弱智傻瓜”。
04:25
They described his terrorist ambitions
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将他的恐怖主义目标
04:27
as wishy-washy and
a pipe dream scenario.
a pipe dream scenario.
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描述为微不足道、白日做梦。
04:30
But that didn't stop the FBI.
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但联邦调查局没有罢手。
04:32
They provided Sami Osmakac
everything he needed.
everything he needed.
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他们为萨米·奥斯马卡什
提供所需的一切。
提供所需的一切。
04:36
They gave him a car bomb,
they gave him an AK-47,
they gave him an AK-47,
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汽车炸弹，AK-47，
04:39
they helped him make a so-called
martyrdom video,
martyrdom video,
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帮他录制了一段所谓的“殉难”视频，
04:42
and they even gave
him money for a taxi cab
him money for a taxi cab
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甚至给他付了出租车钱，
04:44
so that he could get to where
they wanted him to go.
they wanted him to go.
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送他前往选定的目标地点。
04:48
As they were working the sting,
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在设计整个圈套的过程中，
04:49
the squad supervisor tells his agents
he wanted a Hollywood ending.
he wanted a Hollywood ending.
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小队队长告诉探员们，
他想要一个好莱坞（电影）式的结尾。
他想要一个好莱坞（电影）式的结尾。
04:54
And he got a Hollywood ending.
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结果他如愿以偿了。
04:57
When Sami Osmakac attempted
to deliver what he thought
to deliver what he thought
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当萨米·奥斯马卡什试图将汽车炸弹
04:59
was a car bomb,
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运送到位时，
05:00
he was arrested, convicted and
sentenced to 40 years in prison.
sentenced to 40 years in prison.
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他被抓了，判入狱40年。
05:05
Sami Osmakac isn't alone.
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萨米·奥斯马卡什并不是特例。
05:08
He's one of more than
175 so-called terrorists,
175 so-called terrorists,
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他只是这超过175名
所谓的“恐怖分子”中的一员，
所谓的“恐怖分子”中的一员，
05:10
for whom the FBI has created
Hollywood endings.
Hollywood endings.
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联邦调查局给他们
编造了一个好莱坞（电影）式的结尾。
编造了一个好莱坞（电影）式的结尾。
05:15
U.S. government officials call this
the War on Terror.
the War on Terror.
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美国政府官方所谓的“反恐战争”，
05:18
It's really just theater,
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其实只是一场戏，
05:20
a national security theater,
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一场国家安全的大戏，
05:23
with mentally ill men like Sami Osmakac
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由萨米·奥斯马卡什这样的精神病人，
在毫不知情的情况下出演，
而剧本由联邦调查局
而剧本由联邦调查局
05:25
unwitting actors in a
carefully choreographed production
carefully choreographed production
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精心编写，并呈献给大家。
05:28
brought to you by the FBI.
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谢谢。
05:30
Thank you.
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（掌声）
05:31
(Applause)
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05:41
Tom Rielly: So, those are some
pretty strong accusations,
pretty strong accusations,
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汤姆·雷利（TR）：
这些指控非常严重，
这些指控非常严重，
05:44
pretty strong charges.
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罪名很大。
05:47
How can you back this up?
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你有什么依据吗？
05:48
Trevor Aaronson: My research began in 2010
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特雷弗·阿伦森（TA）：
我的研究开始于2010年，
我的研究开始于2010年，
05:50
when I received a grant from the
Investigative Reporting Program
Investigative Reporting Program
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当时我受邀参加加州大学伯克利分校
05:53
at U.C. Berkeley,
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一个调查报告项目，
05:54
and a research assistant and I
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我和我的研究助理
05:56
put together a database
of all terrorism prosecutions
of all terrorism prosecutions
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将“9·11”事件发生后十年以来
05:58
at the time during
the first decade after 9/11.
the first decade after 9/11.
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所有恐怖主义案件的数据进行了汇总。
06:01
And we used the court file
to find out whether
to find out whether
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我们通过研究法院文件
06:04
the defendants had any connections
to international terrorist groups,
to international terrorist groups,
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来调查这些案件的被告
是否跟国际恐怖组织有关，
是否跟国际恐怖组织有关，
06:07
whether an informant was used,
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是否有线人牵涉其中，
06:09
and whether the informant
played the role of an agent provocateur
played the role of an agent provocateur
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线人是否扮演了卧底探员的角色，
06:12
by providing the means and opportunity.
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为他们（被告）出谋划策，
创造机会。
创造机会。
我们将这些材料提交给了联邦调查局
06:14
And we submitted that to the FBI
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06:15
and we asked them to respond
to our database.
to our database.
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要求他们作出回应。
06:18
If they believed there were any errors,
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如果他们发现材料有误，
06:20
we asked them to tell us what they were
and we'd go back and check
and we'd go back and check
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可以指出来，我们会再查证，
但他们从未反驳过我们的任何发现。
06:23
and they never challenged any
of our findings.
of our findings.
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之后，我将这些数据用在杂志文章上，
06:25
Later, I used that data
in a magazine article
in a magazine article
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用在我的书里，
06:27
and later in my book,
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06:28
and on appearances on places
like CBS and NPR,
like CBS and NPR,
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哥伦比亚广播公司和国家公共广播电台
也用过这些数据，
也用过这些数据，
06:31
they were offered that opportunity again
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他们再次获得了反驳的机会，
大可以说，“特雷弗·阿伦森在胡扯。”
06:33
to say, "Trevor Aaronson's
findings are wrong."
findings are wrong."
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06:35
And they've never
come forward and said,
come forward and said,
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但他们从来没有站出来说，
“这些事并不属实。”
06:37
"These are the problems
with those findings."
with those findings."
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所以这些数据
最近被“人权观察”组织
最近被“人权观察”组织
06:39
So the data has since been used
by groups like Human Rights Watch
by groups like Human Rights Watch
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06:42
on its recent report on
these types of sting operations.
these types of sting operations.
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用在他们关于此类虚假行动
的调查报告中。
的调查报告中。
到目前为止，联邦调查局从未正式回应
06:45
And so far, the FBI has never
really responded
really responded
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上述指控：他们逮捕的不是恐怖分子，
06:47
to these charges that it's really
not catching terrorists
not catching terrorists
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06:51
so much as it's catching
mentally ill people
mentally ill people
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只是些精神病人
06:53
that it can dress up as terrorists
in these types of sting operations.
in these types of sting operations.
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被伪装成恐怖分子，
上演了一出虚假反恐的戏码。
上演了一出虚假反恐的戏码。
TR：“拦截”是一家新的
进行新闻调查的网站，
进行新闻调查的网站，
06:57
TR: So The Intercept is that new
investigative journalism website,
investigative journalism website,
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07:01
that's cofounded by Glenn Greenwald.
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由格伦·格林沃尔德等人联合创建。
07:03
Tell us about your article
and why there.
and why there.
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跟我们讲讲你的文章，
为什么发表在他们网站。
为什么发表在他们网站。
07:06
TA: The Intercept seemed to be
the most logical place for this
the most logical place for this
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TA：“拦截”是最适合发表的地方，
07:09
because my article is
really leveraging the fact that
really leveraging the fact that
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因为我的文章揭露了一个事实，
07:12
a source had leaked to me
transcripts of these
transcripts of these
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消息人士提供给我的录音文本
07:15
private FBI conversations
that a federal judge had sealed
that a federal judge had sealed
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是联邦调查局的私密对话，
07:18
based on the government's claim
that their release
that their release
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联邦法官将其封存，
因为政府认为一旦泄露，
因为政府认为一旦泄露，
07:20
would irreparably damage
the U.S. government's
the U.S. government's
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将对美国政府的执法战略
07:22
law enforcement strategy.
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带来无法弥补的损失。
07:24
So a place like The Intercept
was set up to protect journalists
was set up to protect journalists
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所以像“拦截”这样的网站就建立起来了，
用来保护记者
用来保护记者
07:27
and publish their work
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并发表他们的文章，
07:28
when they're dealing with
very sensitive matters like this.
very sensitive matters like this.
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尤其当记者在报道
如此敏感的事件的时候。
如此敏感的事件的时候。
07:31
So my story in The Intercept,
which was just published today,
which was just published today,
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所以我的文章，
今天刚刚在“拦截”上面刊登，
今天刚刚在“拦截”上面刊登，
07:34
tells the story of how Sami Osmakac
was set up in this FBI sting
was set up in this FBI sting
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讲述了萨米·奥斯马卡什
如何被联邦调查局设计陷害，
如何被联邦调查局设计陷害，
07:37
and goes into much greater detail.
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并挖掘了一些更深的细节。
07:39
In this talk, I could only
highlight the things that they said,
highlight the things that they said,
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在本次演讲中，我只强调了
他们所说的部分内容，
他们所说的部分内容，
07:42
such as calling him a "retarded fool."
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比如称他为“弱智傻瓜”。
07:44
But it was much more elaborate,
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1482
但这更是个精心策划的阴谋，
07:45
they went to great lengths
to put money in Sami Osmakac's hands,
to put money in Sami Osmakac's hands,
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他们计划周详，为萨米·奥斯马卡什
提供资金，
提供资金，
07:49
which he then used to purchase weapons
from the undercover agent.
from the undercover agent.
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他随后又从卧底探员手中购买武器。
07:52
When he went to trial,
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当他接受审判时，
07:53
the central piece of evidence
was that he paid for these weapons,
was that he paid for these weapons,
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他购买武器的行为
成为了最关键的证据，
成为了最关键的证据，
07:56
when in truth, these transcripts show
how the FBI orchestrated
how the FBI orchestrated
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2921
但这些录音文本揭露了真相，
联邦调查局精心策划，
联邦调查局精心策划，
07:59
someone who was essentially
mentally ill and broke
mentally ill and broke
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2400
为这些精神病人和破产者提供资金，
08:01
to get money to then
pay for weapons
pay for weapons
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2219
让他们购买武器，
随后再起诉他们意图不轨。
08:03
that they could then charge him
in a conspiracy for.
in a conspiracy for.
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2508
08:06
TR: One final question.
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TR：最后一个问题。
08:08
Less than 10 days ago,
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1521
不到十天前，
联邦调查局在布鲁克林逮捕了
一些“伊拉克和沙姆伊斯兰国”的嫌疑人，
一些“伊拉克和沙姆伊斯兰国”的嫌疑人，
08:10
the FBI arrested some potential
ISIS suspects in Brooklyn,
ISIS suspects in Brooklyn,
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08:13
saying that they might
be headed to Syria,
be headed to Syria,
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称他们可能会前往叙利亚，
这件事是真的吗？还是同样只是演戏。
08:16
and were those real,
or examples of more of the same?
or examples of more of the same?
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08:19
TA: Well so far, we only know
what's come out in the court file,
what's come out in the court file,
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TA：到目前为止，我们所知
事实都来源于法庭文件，
事实都来源于法庭文件，
但在我看来这又是一场戏。
08:22
but they seem to suggest it's another
example of the same.
example of the same.
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这种虚假反恐行动总是紧跟潮流，
08:25
These types of sting operations
have moved from flavor to flavor.
have moved from flavor to flavor.
185
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3182
08:28
So initially it was al Qaeda plots,
186
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起初“基地组织”戏份最多，
现在“伊斯兰国”成了他们的最爱。
08:30
and now the Islamic State
is the current flavor.
is the current flavor.
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这个案子值得注意的是，
被指控的三名男子，
被指控的三名男子，
08:33
What's worth noting about that case
is that the three men that were charged
is that the three men that were charged
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都是在与联邦调查局的线人接触后，
08:36
only began the plot to go to Syria
189
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08:38
after the introduction
of the FBI informant,
of the FBI informant,
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才开始密谋要前往叙利亚，
08:40
and in fact, the FBI informant had helped
them with the travel documents
them with the travel documents
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而实际上，他们的旅行证件
都是联邦调查局的线人
都是联邦调查局的线人
帮他们办理的。
08:44
that they needed.
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最为搞笑的一个转折就是，
08:45
In kind of a comical turn
in that particular case,
in that particular case,
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其中一名被告的母亲
08:47
one of the defendant's mother
had found out
had found out
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在发现儿子要前往叙利亚后
就把他的护照给藏起来了。
就把他的护照给藏起来了。
08:49
that he was interested in going to Syria
and had hid his passport.
and had hid his passport.
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所以即使他能成功抵达机场，
08:53
So it's unclear that even if he had
showed up at the airport,
showed up at the airport,
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恐怕也哪儿都去不了。
08:55
that he ever could have gone anywhere.
197
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的确，在美国也许会有人对加入
08:57
So yes, there are people who might
be interested in joining the Islamic State
be interested in joining the Islamic State
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“伊斯兰国”感兴趣，
这部分人才是美国政府应该关注的，
09:01
in the United States,
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09:02
and those are people that the United
States government should be looking at
States government should be looking at
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看他们是不是有暴力倾向。
而在这件案子中，
就目前所掌握的证据而言，
就目前所掌握的证据而言，
09:06
to see if they're interested
in violence here.
in violence here.
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正是联邦调查局让这些人
09:08
In this particular case, given
the evidence that's so far come out,
the evidence that's so far come out,
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产生了去叙利亚的想法，
09:11
it suggests the FBI made
it possible for these guys
it possible for these guys
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而之前他们可能连想都没想过。
09:13
to move along in a plan to go to Syria
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TR：非常感谢，很棒的演讲。
TA：谢谢你。
TA：谢谢你。
09:15
when they were never close
to that in the first place.
to that in the first place.
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（掌声）
09:18
TR: Thanks a lot, that's amazing.
TA: Thank you.
TA: Thank you.
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09:20
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Trevor Aaronson - JournalistAn investigative journalist who reports on the FBI’s misuse of informants in counterterrorism operations, Trevor Aaronson asks the question: Is the United States catching terrorists or creating them?
Why you should listen
Trevor Aaronson is the executive director of the Florida Center for Investigative Reporting and the author of The Terror Factory: Inside the FBI’s Manufactured War on Terrorism. In 2014 he reported and produced "Informants," a one-hour documentary for Al Jazeera Media Network about the FBI’s counterterrorism program. In 2015 he published "To Catch the Devil" with Foreign Policy and "The Sting: How the FBI Created a Terrorist" with The Intercept, both about his work on the FBI's counterterrorism methods.
Trevor Aaronson | Speaker | TED.com