TEDxExeter
Deeyah Khan: What we don't know about Europe's Muslim kids
迪亚·可汗: 关于欧洲的穆斯林孩子，我们不知道的事情
Filmed:
Readability: 3.2
1,424,468 views
生长于挪威，母亲是阿富汗人，父亲是巴基斯坦人，迪亚·可汗清楚作为夹杂在穆斯林团体和国家之间的年轻人的感受。在这个充满力量，令人动情的演讲中，这位电影制作人揭开了在西方成长的穆斯林孩子感受到的排斥和孤立——以及我们不在极端团体接纳他们之前接纳他们所带来的致命性后果。
Deeyah Khan - Filmmaker
Deeyah Khan is working to create intercultural dialogue and understanding by confronting the world's most complex and controversial topics. Full bio
Deeyah Khan is working to create intercultural dialogue and understanding by confronting the world's most complex and controversial topics. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
When I was a child,
I knew I had superpowers.
I knew I had superpowers.
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当我还是一个孩子的时候
，
我就知道我拥有超能力。
我就知道我拥有超能力。
00:18
That's right.
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没错。
00:20
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
00:21
I thought I was absolutely amazing
because I could understand
because I could understand
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我觉得我有一种神奇的能力
，
因为我可以理解棕色人种（穆斯林），
因为我可以理解棕色人种（穆斯林），
00:25
and relate to the feelings
of brown people,
of brown people,
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与他们共情，
00:27
like my grandfather,
a conservative Muslim guy.
a conservative Muslim guy.
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比如我的祖父
，
一个保守的穆斯林。
一个保守的穆斯林。
00:31
And also, I could understand
my Afghan mother, my Pakistani father,
my Afghan mother, my Pakistani father,
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我也能理解我来自阿富汗的母亲
和来自巴基斯坦的父亲，
和来自巴基斯坦的父亲，
00:36
not so religious
but laid-back, fairly liberal.
but laid-back, fairly liberal.
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他们并没有那么笃信宗教
，
而是十分温和、自由开明。
而是十分温和、自由开明。
00:40
And of course, I could understand
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当然，我也可以理解白人，
00:42
and relate to the feelings
of white people.
of white people.
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并与他们共情。
00:44
The white Norwegians of my country.
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比如我的祖国挪威的白人。
00:47
You know, white, brown, whatever --
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你知道的，不管是白色人种，
还是棕色人种——
还是棕色人种——
00:50
I loved them all.
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我都热爱。
00:51
I understood them all,
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我都理解，
00:53
even if they didn't always
understand each other,
understand each other,
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即使他们之间互不理解；
00:55
they were all my people.
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在我眼里，四海之内皆朋友。
00:57
My father, though,
was always really worried.
was always really worried.
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不过，我的父亲总在为我担忧。
01:00
He kept saying that
even with the best education,
even with the best education,
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他常说，即使你受到了最好的教育，
01:03
I was not going to get a fair shake.
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我也得不到平等的待遇。
01:07
I would still face discrimination,
according to him.
according to him.
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在他眼里，我依然会被
种族歧视所包围。
种族歧视所包围。
01:10
And that the only way
to be accepted by white people
to be accepted by white people
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而被白人社会接受的唯一方法
01:13
would be to become famous.
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就是成名。
01:15
Now, mind you, he had this conversation
with me when I was seven years old.
with me when I was seven years old.
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你想想，这些谈话发生在我七岁那年。
01:20
So while I'm seven years old, he said,
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我七岁时，他说，
01:23
"Look, so it's either got to be sports,
or it's got to be music."
or it's got to be music."
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“你看吧，要么搞体育，
要么搞音乐。”
要么搞音乐。”
01:26
He didn't know anything about sports --
bless him -- so it was music.
bless him -- so it was music.
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幸好我父亲对体育一无所知——
所以我选择了音乐。
所以我选择了音乐。
01:31
So when I was seven years old,
he gathered all my toys, all my dolls,
he gathered all my toys, all my dolls,
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就这样，他在那年，把我全部的玩具啊，
娃娃啊都搜集起来，
娃娃啊都搜集起来，
01:35
and he threw them all away.
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然后一股脑地扔掉了。
01:38
In exchange he gave me
a crappy little Casio keyboard and --
a crappy little Casio keyboard and --
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作为交换，他给我了一架劣质的
小型卡西欧电子琴——
小型卡西欧电子琴——
01:42
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
01:43
Yeah. And singing lessons.
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他还给我报了声乐课。
01:45
And he forced me, basically, to practice
for hours and hours every single day.
for hours and hours every single day.
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基本上，他每日都逼着我
练习上好几个小时。
练习上好几个小时。
01:50
Very quickly, he also had me performing
for larger and larger audiences,
for larger and larger audiences,
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没多久，他就让我在观众
越来越多的舞台上表演，
越来越多的舞台上表演，
01:54
and bizarrely, I became
almost a kind of poster child
almost a kind of poster child
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奇怪的是，我几近变成了
01:58
for Norwegian multiculturalism.
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挪威多元文化的代表孩童。
02:00
I felt very proud, of course.
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当然，我对此感到很自豪。
02:02
Because even the newspapers at this point
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因为这段时间，连报纸都在刊登
02:05
were starting to write
nice things about brown people,
nice things about brown people,
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一些赞美棕色人种的言论，
02:08
so I could feel
that my superpower was growing.
that my superpower was growing.
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于是，我可以感觉到，
我的超能力在成长。
我的超能力在成长。
02:12
So when I was 12 years old,
walking home from school,
walking home from school,
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在我十二岁那年，
我从学校走回家的时候，
我从学校走回家的时候，
02:15
I took a little detour
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我没有直接回家，
02:17
because I wanted to buy
my favorite sweets called "salty feet."
my favorite sweets called "salty feet."
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因为我想买我最喜欢的
糖果，“咸脚丫”。
糖果，“咸脚丫”。
02:20
I know they sound kind of awful,
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我知道，这名字听上去糟透了，
02:23
but I absolutely love them.
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但我简直爱死这种糖了。
02:25
They're basically these little
salty licorice bits in the shape of feet.
salty licorice bits in the shape of feet.
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它是一种小小的、咸咸的、
脚丫形状的甘草糖。
脚丫形状的甘草糖。
02:30
And now that I say it out loud,
I realize how terrible that sounds,
I realize how terrible that sounds,
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现在我描述了一下，
这糖听上去更难以下咽了，
这糖听上去更难以下咽了，
02:36
but be that as it may,
I absolutely love them.
I absolutely love them.
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那就这样吧，反正我超级喜欢它。
02:38
So on my way into the store,
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在我进店的时候，
02:40
there was this grown white guy
in the doorway blocking my way.
in the doorway blocking my way.
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有个成年白人男子站在门口，
挡住了我的路。
挡住了我的路。
02:45
So I tried to walk around him,
and as I did that, he stopped me
and as I did that, he stopped me
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我只好避着他走，
就在这时，他把我拦住了，
就在这时，他把我拦住了，
02:51
and he was staring at me,
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死死盯着我，
02:54
and he spit in my face, and he said,
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然后在我脸上吐了口痰，他说，
02:56
"Get out of my way
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“滚开！”
02:57
you little black bitch,
you little Paki bitch,
you little Paki bitch,
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“你这个黑人小婊子，
你这个巴基斯坦小婊子，
你这个巴基斯坦小婊子，
03:00
go back home where you came from."
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从哪里来就滚回哪里去！”
03:03
I was absolutely horrified.
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我彻彻底底被吓到了。
03:06
I was staring at him.
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我只能盯着他。
03:08
I was too afraid
to wipe the spit off my face,
to wipe the spit off my face,
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我没法鼓起勇气
擦掉我脸上的口水，
擦掉我脸上的口水，
03:11
even as it was mixing with my tears.
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哪怕这口水已经
跟我的泪二合为一了。
跟我的泪二合为一了。
03:14
I remember looking around,
hoping that any minute now,
hoping that any minute now,
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我记得，我四处张望，盼着这一刻，
03:17
a grown-up is going to come
and make this guy stop.
and make this guy stop.
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会有一个成年人进来，
教训这个男人。
教训这个男人。
03:21
But instead, people kept hurrying past me
and pretended not to see me.
and pretended not to see me.
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现实是，人们匆忙地经过我，
好似没有看见这场景。
好似没有看见这场景。
03:26
I was very confused
because I was thinking, well,
because I was thinking, well,
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我很疑惑，因为，我一直觉得
03:30
"My white people, come on!
Where are they? What's going on?
Where are they? What's going on?
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“我的白人朋友，快来啊！他们在哪？
是什么事让他们来不了了吗？
是什么事让他们来不了了吗？
03:33
How come they're not
coming and rescuing me?
coming and rescuing me?
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他们怎么可能不来救我？”
03:36
So, needless to say,
I didn't buy the sweets.
I didn't buy the sweets.
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无需多言，我没有买糖果。
03:39
I just ran home as fast as I could.
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我只好竭尽全力，
尽快地跑回家。
尽快地跑回家。
03:42
Things were still OK, though, I thought.
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我想，我的生活基本还是可以的。
03:44
As time went on,
the more successful I became,
the more successful I became,
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时间流逝，当我变得越发成功时，
03:47
I eventually started also
attracting harassment from brown people.
attracting harassment from brown people.
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棕色人种也开始骚扰我了。
03:53
Some men in my parent's community
felt that it was unacceptable
felt that it was unacceptable
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有些在我父母社区的男人，
03:56
and dishonorable for a woman
to be involved in music
to be involved in music
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认为让女孩子玩音乐是
不可接受的，耻辱的，
不可接受的，耻辱的，
04:01
and to be so present in the media.
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同理，在媒体中出现
也是他们所不齿的。
也是他们所不齿的。
04:05
So very quickly, I was starting
to become attacked at my own concerts.
to become attacked at my own concerts.
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很快，人们开始在我的音乐会上攻击我。
04:10
I remember one of the concerts,
I was onstage, I lean into the audience
I was onstage, I lean into the audience
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我记得，在某次音乐会上，
我站在台上，朝观众席看，
我站在台上，朝观众席看，
04:15
and the last thing I see
is a young brown face
is a young brown face
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我看见一张年轻的，棕色的脸，
04:19
and the next thing I know is some sort
of chemical is thrown in my eyes
of chemical is thrown in my eyes
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接下来，我能感觉到一种恶意
投射在我的眼眸里，
投射在我的眼眸里，
04:23
and I remember I couldn't really see
and my eyes were watering
and my eyes were watering
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那时候我流着泪，
几乎什么都看不见了，
几乎什么都看不见了，
04:26
but I kept singing anyway.
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但无论如何，我依然在唱歌。
04:28
I was spit in the face in the streets
of Oslo, this time by brown men.
of Oslo, this time by brown men.
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我在奥斯陆街上走，这次，
朝我吐口水的是几个棕色男人。
朝我吐口水的是几个棕色男人。
04:34
They even tried to kidnap me at one point.
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他们甚至想要绑架我。
04:37
The death threats were endless.
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死亡恐吓从未停止过。
04:39
I remember one older bearded guy
stopped me in the street one time,
stopped me in the street one time,
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我记得有个留胡子的，
老一些的男人曾在大街上拦住我。
老一些的男人曾在大街上拦住我。
04:42
and he said, "The reason
I hate you so much
I hate you so much
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说道：“我之所以这么恨你，
04:45
is because you make our daughters think
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是因为你让我们的女儿们认为，
04:47
they can do whatever they want."
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她们可以想做什么就做什么。”
04:50
A younger guy warned me to watch my back.
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一个年轻小伙警告我让我小心点。
04:53
He said music is un-Islamic
and the job of whores,
and the job of whores,
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他说音乐是非穆斯林的东西，
是婊子才选择的职业，
是婊子才选择的职业，
04:56
and if you keep this up,
you are going to be raped
you are going to be raped
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如果你继续搞音乐，
你就会被强奸，
你就会被强奸，
04:59
and your stomach will be cut out so that
another whore like you will not be born.
another whore like you will not be born.
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你的肚子会被剖开，
所以像你一样的婊子就不会出生。
所以像你一样的婊子就不会出生。
05:05
Again, I was so confused.
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再一次，我迷茫了。
05:07
I couldn't understand what was going on.
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我不明白发生了什么。
05:09
My brown people now starting
to treat me like this -- how come?
to treat me like this -- how come?
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棕色人种现在也开始对我这般
——为什么？
——为什么？
05:13
Instead of bridging the worlds,
the two worlds,
the two worlds,
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我觉得我陷落在两个世界的缝隙之中，
05:16
I felt like I was falling
between my two worlds.
between my two worlds.
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而不是将这两个世界连接起来。
05:20
I suppose, for me, spit was kryptonite.
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我想，口水对我来说就如同
氪对超人来说一样吧。
氪对超人来说一样吧。
05:24
So by the time I was 17 years old,
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当我17岁时，
05:26
the death threats were endless,
and the harassment was constant.
and the harassment was constant.
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我收到了无尽的死亡威胁和骚扰。
05:29
It got so bad, at one point
my mother sat me down and said,
my mother sat me down and said,
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这太糟糕了，以至于有一次，
我妈妈和我坐下来说道，
我妈妈和我坐下来说道，
05:32
"Look, we can no longer protect you,
we can no longer keep you safe,
we can no longer keep you safe,
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“我们无法再保护你，
我们无法再保证你的安全，
我们无法再保证你的安全，
05:35
so you're going to have to go."
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所以你必须要离开了。”
05:37
So I bought a one-way ticket to London,
I packed my suitcase and I left.
I packed my suitcase and I left.
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所以我买了一张去伦敦的单程票，
收拾好我的行李，启程离去。
收拾好我的行李，启程离去。
05:44
My biggest heartbreak at that point
was that nobody said anything.
was that nobody said anything.
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最令我心碎的是在那时没有人发声。
05:47
I had a very public exit from Norway.
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我离开挪威已成为公众新闻。
05:51
My brown people, my white people --
nobody said anything.
nobody said anything.
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而我的棕人朋友、我的白人朋友
——没有人发声。
——没有人发声。
05:54
Nobody said, "Hold on, this is wrong.
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没有人说，“等一等，这是不对的。
05:57
Support this girl, protect this girl,
because she is one of us."
because she is one of us."
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支持这个姑娘，保护这个姑娘，
因为她是我们中的一员。”
因为她是我们中的一员。”
06:01
Nobody said that.
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没有人这么说。
06:03
Instead, I felt like --
you know at the airport,
you know at the airport,
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我感觉就像——在机场，
06:07
on the baggage carousel
you have these different suitcases
you have these different suitcases
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行李传送带上，
06:10
going around and around,
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有许多行李转啊转，
06:11
and there's always
that one suitcase left at the end,
that one suitcase left at the end,
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总有一个行李会落在最后，
06:13
the one that nobody wants,
the one that nobody comes to claim.
the one that nobody comes to claim.
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没有人要，没有人领取。
06:16
I felt like that.
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我感觉就像那样。
06:19
I'd never felt so alone.
I'd never felt so lost.
I'd never felt so lost.
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我从未感到如此孤独。
我从未感到如此失落。
我从未感到如此失落。
06:24
So, after coming to London,
I did eventually resume my music career.
I did eventually resume my music career.
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当我来到伦敦之后，
我逐渐重拾起了我的音乐。
我逐渐重拾起了我的音乐。
06:29
Different place, but unfortunately
the same old story.
the same old story.
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不同的地点，但不幸有着相同的故事。
06:32
I remember a message sent to me
saying that I was going to be killed
saying that I was going to be killed
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我记得我收到一个信息，
说我很快就会被杀掉，
说我很快就会被杀掉，
06:36
and that rivers of blood
were going to flow
were going to flow
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血流成河，
06:39
and that I was going to be raped
many times before I died.
many times before I died.
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而且死前我会被强奸很多次。
06:43
By this point, I have to say,
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我不得不承认，在那时，
06:44
I was actually getting used
to messages like this,
to messages like this,
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我实际上已经习惯了这样的信息，
06:47
but what became different was that
now they started threatening my family.
now they started threatening my family.
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但让事情变得不同的是，
他们开始威胁我的家人。
他们开始威胁我的家人。
06:52
So once again, I packed my suitcase,
I left music and I moved to the US.
I left music and I moved to the US.
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所以再一次，我收拾好我的行李，
放弃音乐，动身前往美国。
放弃音乐，动身前往美国。
06:58
I'd had enough.
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我受够了。
06:59
I didn't want to have anything
to do with this anymore.
to do with this anymore.
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我不想再和这些事情有任何瓜葛。
07:02
And I was certainly not
going to be killed for something
going to be killed for something
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我肯定不想因为什么而被杀害，
07:05
that wasn't even my dream --
it was my father's choice.
it was my father's choice.
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这甚至不是我的梦想
——这是我父亲的选择。
——这是我父亲的选择。
07:10
So I kind of got lost.
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所以我有点迷茫了。
07:13
I kind of fell apart.
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我有点崩溃了。
07:14
But I decided that what I wanted to do
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但是我决定我想做的
07:17
is spend the next
however many years of my life
however many years of my life
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是用接下来的时间，无论多少年
07:20
supporting young people
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支持年轻人，
07:22
and to try to be there in some small way,
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并且努力通过可以实现的方式，
07:25
whatever way that I could.
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在那里支持他们。
07:27
I started volunteering
for various organizations
for various organizations
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我开始为帮助欧洲境内年轻穆斯林
的组织做志愿工作。
的组织做志愿工作。
07:30
that were working
with young Muslims inside of Europe.
with young Muslims inside of Europe.
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07:36
And, to my surprise, what I found was
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令我惊讶的是，我发现
07:39
so many of these young people
were suffering and struggling.
were suffering and struggling.
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有许多年轻人正在受难，正在挣扎。
07:44
They were facing so many problems
with their families and their communities
with their families and their communities
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他们面临着来自家庭和
所处团体的诸多问题，
所处团体的诸多问题，
07:48
who seemed to care more
about their honor and their reputation
about their honor and their reputation
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相比这些年轻人本身的快乐幸福，
他们的家庭和团体似乎
他们的家庭和团体似乎
07:51
than the happiness
and the lives of their own kids.
and the lives of their own kids.
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更关注他们的荣誉和名声。
07:55
I started feeling like maybe I wasn't
so alone, maybe I wasn't so weird.
so alone, maybe I wasn't so weird.
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我慢慢觉得，也许我不是孤身一人，
也许我并不是那么古怪。
也许我并不是那么古怪。
08:00
Maybe there are more
of my people out there.
of my people out there.
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也许有许许多多我的朋友们。
08:03
The thing is, what most people
don't understand
don't understand
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许多人不了解的是，
08:05
is that there are so many of us
growing up in Europe
growing up in Europe
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我们中的许多人成长于欧洲，
08:09
who are not free to be ourselves.
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但不能自由的做自己。
08:12
We're not allowed to be who we are.
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我们不被允许成为真正的自己。
08:15
We are not free to marry
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我们不被允许与我们喜欢的人
08:19
or to be in relationships
with people that we choose.
with people that we choose.
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结婚或是发展一段恋情。
08:22
We can't even pick our own career.
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我们甚至不能选择自己的职业。
08:24
This is the norm in the Muslim
heartlands of Europe.
heartlands of Europe.
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这是欧洲核心地带穆斯林的行为准则。
08:27
Even in the freest societies
in the world, we're not free.
in the world, we're not free.
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尽管身在世界上最自由的社会，
我们不是自由的。
我们不是自由的。
08:31
Our lives, our dreams, our future
does not belong to us,
does not belong to us,
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我们的生活，我们的梦想，
我们的未来，都不属于我们，
我们的未来，都不属于我们，
08:35
it belongs to our parents
and their community.
and their community.
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而是属于我们的父辈，
属于他们的团体。
属于他们的团体。
08:38
I found endless stories of young people
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我了解到了无数的年轻人的故事，
08:42
who are lost to all of us,
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他们是失落的，
08:45
who are invisible to all of us
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他们是无形的，
08:47
but who are suffering,
and they are suffering alone.
and they are suffering alone.
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但他们正在受难，独自受难。
08:51
Kids we are losing to forced marriages,
to honor-based violence and abuse.
to honor-based violence and abuse.
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孩子们屈服于强制婚姻，
屈服于荣誉暴力和虐待。
屈服于荣誉暴力和虐待。
08:57
Eventually, I realized after several
years of working with these young people,
years of working with these young people,
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渐渐地，在帮助了这些年轻人若干年后，
09:01
that I will not be able to keep running.
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我意识到我不能够继续这么下去了。
09:03
I can't spend the rest of my life
being scared and hiding
being scared and hiding
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我不能在余生之中继续惊恐和躲藏，
09:07
and that I'm actually
going to have to do something.
going to have to do something.
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我需要真正的做些事情。
09:11
And I also realized
that my silence, our silence,
that my silence, our silence,
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我也意识到，我的沉默，我们的沉默，
09:14
allows abuse like this to continue.
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让这些虐待得以继续。
09:18
So I decided that I wanted to put
my childhood superpower to some use
my childhood superpower to some use
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所以我想让这些事情的双方意识到
09:22
by trying to make people on the different
sides of these issues understand
sides of these issues understand
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成为一名身处在家庭和国家之间的
年轻人，是何种滋味，
年轻人，是何种滋味，
09:27
what it's like to be a young person stuck
between your family and your country.
between your family and your country.
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而我少年时代的超能力也得以利用。
09:32
So I started making films,
and I started telling these stories.
and I started telling these stories.
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于是我开始拍摄电影，
我开始讲述这些故事。
我开始讲述这些故事。
09:36
And I also wanted people to understand
the deadly consequences of us
the deadly consequences of us
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我也想让人们了解到
如果我们不解决这些问题
如果我们不解决这些问题
09:41
not taking these problems seriously.
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会带来的致命性的后果。
09:44
So the first film I made was about Banaz.
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所以我拍摄的第一部电影是关于巴纳兹的。
09:47
She was a 17-year-old
Kurdish girl in London.
Kurdish girl in London.
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她是伦敦的一个十七岁的库尔德姑娘。
09:51
She was obedient, she did
whatever her parents wanted.
whatever her parents wanted.
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她很听话，遵从父母的所有指令。
09:54
She tried to do everything right.
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她想做对每件事情。
09:57
She married some guy
that her parents chose for her,
that her parents chose for her,
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她与她父母为她选择的男人结婚，
09:59
even though he beat
and raped her constantly.
and raped her constantly.
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尽管他经常打她、强奸她。
10:03
And when she tried to go
to her family for help, they said,
to her family for help, they said,
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当她尝试着向她的家庭
求助时，他们说道，
求助时，他们说道，
10:06
"Well, you got to go back
and be a better wife."
and be a better wife."
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"嗯，你要回去，成为一个好妻子。"
10:09
Because they didn't want
a divorced daughter on their hands
a divorced daughter on their hands
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因为他们不想有一个离过婚的女儿，
10:11
because, of course, that would
bring dishonor on the family.
bring dishonor on the family.
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这是肯定的，因为这会给家庭带来耻辱。
10:15
She was beaten so badly
her ears would bleed,
her ears would bleed,
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她被打的很重，她的耳朵会流血，
10:19
and when she finally left
and she found a young man that she chose
and she found a young man that she chose
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而当她最终离开，
并与她选择和相爱的男人在一起时，
10:24
and she fell in love with,
184
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10:26
the community and the family found out
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（穆斯林）团体和家庭发现了这件事，
10:28
and she disappeared.
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然后她消失了。
10:30
She was found three months later.
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三个月之后人们发现了她。
10:33
She'd been stuffed into a suitcase
and buried underneath the house.
and buried underneath the house.
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她被塞进了一个行李箱，
埋在了房子的下面。
埋在了房子的下面。
10:40
She had been strangled,
she had been beaten to death
she had been beaten to death
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她曾被勒住脖子，曾被打得半死，
10:44
by three men, three cousins,
on the orders of her father and uncle.
on the orders of her father and uncle.
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而施虐者是三个男人，她的三个兄弟，
受了她的父亲和叔叔的指令。
受了她的父亲和叔叔的指令。
10:49
The added tragedy of Banaz's story
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给巴纳兹的故事更添一层悲剧色彩的是
10:52
is that she had gone to the police
in England five times asking for help,
in England five times asking for help,
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她曾经五次向英国警方寻求帮助，
10:58
telling them that she was
going to be killed by her family.
going to be killed by her family.
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告诉他们她就要被她的家人谋杀。
11:01
The police didn't believe her
so they didn't do anything.
so they didn't do anything.
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但警方没有相信她，
于是他们什么都没有做。
于是他们什么都没有做。
11:05
And the problem with this
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这类事情的问题在于
11:06
is that not only are so many of our kids
facing these problems
facing these problems
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我们的孩子不仅仅面临来自
家庭和团体的问题，
家庭和团体的问题，
11:10
within their families
and within their families' communities,
and within their families' communities,
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我们的孩子不仅仅面临来自
家庭和团体的问题，
家庭和团体的问题，
11:13
but they're also meeting misunderstandings
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而且他们还经受着来自
11:18
and apathy in the countries
that they grow up in.
that they grow up in.
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成长环境的误解和冷漠。
11:23
When their own families betray them,
they look to the rest of us,
they look to the rest of us,
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当他们自己的家庭背叛了他们，
他们向剩下的我们寻求帮助，
他们向剩下的我们寻求帮助，
11:28
and when we don't understand,
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而当我们不理解时，
11:30
we lose them.
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我们便失去了他们。
11:33
So while I was making this film,
several people said to me,
several people said to me,
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所以当我在制作这部影片时，
有些人对我说，
有些人对我说，
11:36
"Well, Deeyah, you know,
this is just their culture,
this is just their culture,
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“喔，迪亚，你知道，
这只是他们的文化，
这只是他们的文化，
11:38
this is just what those people
do to their kids
do to their kids
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这只是那些人对他们的孩子应该做的，
11:41
and we can't really interfere."
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我们不能干预。”
11:43
I can assure you
being murdered is not my culture.
being murdered is not my culture.
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我可以向你保证，
被谋杀不是我的文化。
被谋杀不是我的文化。
11:48
You know?
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你明白吗？
11:49
And surely people who look like me,
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当然，像我一样的人，
11:51
young women who come
from backgrounds like me,
from backgrounds like me,
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和我背景相似的年轻女孩，
11:53
should be subject to the same rights,
the same protections
the same protections
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理应和我们国家中的其他人一样，
11:57
as anybody else in our country, why not?
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享有同样的权利，受到相同的保护，
为什么不呢？
为什么不呢？
12:02
So, for my next film,
I wanted to try and understand
I wanted to try and understand
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所以，在我的下一部影片中，
我想尝试理解
我想尝试理解
12:07
why some of our young
Muslim kids in Europe
Muslim kids in Europe
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为什么欧洲有一些年轻穆斯林
12:10
are drawn to extremism and violence.
215
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会受到极端主义和暴力的吸引。
12:12
But with that topic,
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但是要做这个主题，
12:14
I also recognized that I was going
to have to face my worst fear:
to have to face my worst fear:
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我也意识到，我将要面临
我最大的恐惧：
我最大的恐惧：
12:19
the brown men with beards.
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留着胡子的棕皮肤男人。
12:22
The same men, or similar men,
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同样的男人，或相似的男人，
12:25
to the ones that have hounded me
for most of my life.
for most of my life.
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曾在我生命大部分时间中
追捕我的男人。
追捕我的男人。
12:29
Men that I've been afraid of
most of my life.
most of my life.
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我生命大部分时间中，我害怕的男人。
多年以来，我深深厌恶的男人。
12:32
Men that I've also deeply disliked,
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12:35
for many, many years.
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12:37
So I spent the next two years
interviewing convicted terrorists,
interviewing convicted terrorists,
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于是，在接下来的两年中，
我采访了被判刑的恐怖分子、
我采访了被判刑的恐怖分子、
12:41
jihadis and former extremists.
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圣战主义者和前极端主义者。
12:43
What I already knew,
what was very obvious already,
what was very obvious already,
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我已经知道的，或是说已经非常明显的，
12:47
was that religion, politics,
Europe's colonial baggage,
Europe's colonial baggage,
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包括宗教、政治、欧洲的移民遗留问题，
12:52
also Western foreign policy
failures of recent years,
failures of recent years,
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以及近几年来西方外交政策的失败，
12:56
were all a part of the picture.
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而这只是问题的一部分。
12:58
But what I was more interested
in finding out was what are the human,
in finding out was what are the human,
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我更加感兴趣的是
了解他们是什么样的人，
了解他们是什么样的人，
13:01
what are the personal reasons
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他们的个人原因是什么，
13:03
why some of our young people
are susceptible to groups like this.
are susceptible to groups like this.
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为什么有些年轻人
易受到这种团体的影响。
易受到这种团体的影响。
13:09
And what really surprised me
was that I found wounded human beings.
was that I found wounded human beings.
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令我惊讶的是，
我发现的是受过伤的人们
我发现的是受过伤的人们
13:15
Instead of the monsters
that I was looking for,
that I was looking for,
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他们不是我希望找到的，
13:18
that I was hoping to find --
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我希望找到的怪物——
13:19
quite frankly because
it would have been very satisfying --
it would have been very satisfying --
236
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说实话这样也许更令人满意——
13:22
I found broken people.
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我发现的却是受过伤的人。
13:25
Just like Banaz,
238
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正如巴纳兹一样，
13:27
I found that these young men
were torn apart
were torn apart
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我发现的是这些年轻人
13:30
from trying to bridge the gaps
240
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在尝试弥合他们的家庭和
13:32
between their families
and the countries that they were born in.
and the countries that they were born in.
241
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他们生长的国家之间的差距时被撕碎了。
13:37
And what I also learned
is that extremist groups, terrorist groups
is that extremist groups, terrorist groups
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我也了解到，极端组织团体、恐怖组织团体
13:41
are taking advantage
of these feelings of our young people
of these feelings of our young people
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正是利用了年轻人的这种感受，
13:44
and channeling that -- cynically --
channeling that toward violence.
channeling that toward violence.
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并将其向暴力引导。
13:48
"Come to us," they say.
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“加入我们吧，”他们说。
13:50
"Reject both sides,
your family and your country
your family and your country
246
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“抛弃这两方，你的家庭，你的国家，
13:53
because they reject you.
247
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因为他们抛弃了你。
13:54
For your family, their honor
is more important than you
is more important than you
248
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于你的家庭而言，他们的荣誉比你更重要
13:57
and for your country,
249
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1256
与你的国家而言，
13:59
a real Norwegian, Brit or a French person
will always be white and never you."
will always be white and never you."
250
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5880
一个真正的挪威、英国或是法国人，
永远都是白皮肤，永远不会是你。”
永远都是白皮肤，永远不会是你。”
14:06
They're also promising our young people
the things that they crave:
the things that they crave:
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他们向我们的年轻人
承诺他们想要的东西：
承诺他们想要的东西：
14:09
significance, heroism,
a sense of belonging and purpose,
a sense of belonging and purpose,
252
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4336
荣耀、英雄主义、归属感和使命感，
14:13
a community that loves and accepts them.
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2400
一个爱他们、接受他们的团体。
14:17
They make the powerless feel powerful.
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他们让无力者感受到了力量。
14:20
The invisible and the silent
are finally seen and heard.
are finally seen and heard.
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那些隐形的人，沉默的人，
最终被人看到听到。
最终被人看到听到。
14:27
This is what they're doing
for our young people.
for our young people.
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这就是他们对我们的年轻人所做的。
14:29
Why are these groups doing this
for our young people and not us?
for our young people and not us?
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为什么这些团体对年轻人做这些，
而不是我们？
而不是我们？
14:34
The thing is,
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事实是，
14:36
I'm not trying to justify
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我并不在为任何暴力
14:39
or excuse any of the violence.
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寻找理由或是借口。
14:43
What I am trying to say
is that we have to understand
is that we have to understand
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我想说的是，我们必须了解
14:47
why some of our young people
are attracted to this.
are attracted to this.
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为什么有些年轻人受到这些事物的吸引。
14:51
I would like to also show you, actually --
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我还想向你们展示，事实上——
14:54
these are childhood photos
of some of the guys in the film.
of some of the guys in the film.
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这些是影片中的一些人小时候的照片。
14:59
What really struck me
is that so many of them --
is that so many of them --
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让我惊诧的是，
他们中的很多人——
他们中的很多人——
15:02
I never would have thought this --
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我从来没想过这一点——
15:04
but so many of them
have absent or abusive fathers.
have absent or abusive fathers.
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但是他们中的很多人都有
一个不负责或是暴力的父亲。
一个不负责或是暴力的父亲。
15:08
And several of these young guys
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这群年轻人中的一些人
15:10
ended up finding caring
and compassionate father figures
and compassionate father figures
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反而在极端组织中寻找到了
15:14
within these extremist groups.
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关爱自己、富有爱心的父亲角色。
15:17
I also found men
brutalized by racist violence,
brutalized by racist violence,
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同时，我也发现这些备受
种族暴力折磨的人们，
种族暴力折磨的人们，
15:21
but who found a way
to stop feeling like victims
to stop feeling like victims
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通过暴力来消弭自己的受害者情绪。
15:24
by becoming violent themselves.
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15:25
In fact, I found something,
to my horror, that I recognized.
to my horror, that I recognized.
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事实上，令我感到害怕的是，
我发现了一些我记得的东西，
我发现了一些我记得的东西，
15:30
I found the same feelings that I felt
as a 17-year-old as I fled from Norway.
as a 17-year-old as I fled from Norway.
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我发现了我十七岁逃离挪威时
的同样的感受。
的同样的感受。
15:38
The same confusion, the same sorrow,
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同样的困惑，同样的伤感，
15:41
the same feeling of being betrayed
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同样的被背叛的感觉，
15:46
and not belonging to anyone.
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同样缺失的归属感。
15:50
The same feeling of being lost
and torn between cultures.
and torn between cultures.
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同样的被夹在两种文化之中
的迷茫和撕裂感。
的迷茫和撕裂感。
15:54
Having said that,
I did not choose destruction,
I did not choose destruction,
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说到这里，我并没有选择毁灭，
15:57
I chose to pick up a camera
instead of a gun.
instead of a gun.
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我选择拿起相机而不是手枪。
16:00
And the reason I did that
is because of my superpower.
is because of my superpower.
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我这么做的原因是因为我的超能力。
16:03
I could see that understanding
is the answer, instead of violence.
is the answer, instead of violence.
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我能够认识到理解才是答案，
而暴力不是。
而暴力不是。
16:08
Seeing human beings
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看到人类的种种善行和过失
16:10
with all their virtues and all their flaws
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16:13
instead of continuing the caricatures:
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而不是继续讥讽：
16:15
the us and them, the villains and victims.
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我们和他们，恶人和受害人。
16:18
I'd also finally
come to terms with the fact
come to terms with the fact
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我也最终意识到
16:20
that my two cultures
didn't have to be on a collision course
didn't have to be on a collision course
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我的两种文化没有必要产生冲突，
16:24
but instead became a space
where I found my own voice.
where I found my own voice.
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相反，我可以在两者之间找到自己的声音。
16:27
I stopped feeling
like I had to pick a side,
like I had to pick a side,
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我摒弃了一定要选择一方的想法，
16:30
but this took me many, many years.
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但这花了我很多很多年。
16:33
There are so many
of our young people today
of our young people today
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如今有许多年轻人
16:35
who are struggling with these same issues,
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正在受困于同样的事情，
16:37
and they're struggling with this alone.
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而他们正在独自挣扎。
16:41
And this leaves them open like wounds.
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这就使他们像敞开的伤口一样。
16:44
And for some, the worldview
of radical Islam
of radical Islam
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对于一些人来说，极端伊斯兰的世界观
16:47
becomes the infection
that festers in these open wounds.
that festers in these open wounds.
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通过这些敞开的伤口感染了他们。
16:53
There's an African proverb that says,
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有句非洲谚语是这样的，
16:57
"If the young are not
initiated into the village,
initiated into the village,
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“如果年轻人没有被引导进入村庄，
17:01
they will burn it down
just to feel its warmth."
just to feel its warmth."
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那么他们就会烧了村庄，
只是去感受它的温度。”
只是去感受它的温度。”
17:05
I would like to ask --
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我想问——
17:07
to Muslim parents and Muslim communities,
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问那些穆斯林家长和穆斯林团体，
17:10
will you love and care for your children
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你们会爱你们的孩子，
关爱你们的孩子
关爱你们的孩子
17:12
without forcing them
to meet your expectations?
to meet your expectations?
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而不逼迫他们去迎合你们的期望吗？
17:15
Can you choose them instead of your honor?
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你们可以选择他们，
而不是你们的荣誉吗？
而不是你们的荣誉吗？
17:18
Can you understand
why they're so angry and alienated
why they're so angry and alienated
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你们可以理解当你们把荣誉
看的比他们的快乐更重要时，
看的比他们的快乐更重要时，
17:21
when you put your honor
before their happiness?
before their happiness?
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为什么他们会那么生气和孤立吗？
17:24
Can you try to be a friend to your child
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你们可以努力变成你们孩子的朋友，
17:27
so that they can trust you
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这样他们可以信任你们，
17:28
and want to share with you
their experiences,
their experiences,
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并且愿意和你们分享他们的经历，
17:31
rather than having
to seek it somewhere else?
to seek it somewhere else?
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而不是在其他地方找寻这种东西吗？
17:34
And to our young people
tempted by extremism,
tempted by extremism,
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而对于被极端主义蛊惑的年轻人，
17:38
can you acknowledge
that your rage is fueled by pain?
that your rage is fueled by pain?
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你们可以承认你们的怒火是源于痛苦吗？
17:43
Will you find the strength
to resist those cynical old men
to resist those cynical old men
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你们可以找到力量去抵抗那些
17:47
who want to use your blood
for their own profits?
for their own profits?
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用你们的鲜血谋私利的愤世嫉俗之人吗？
17:51
Can you find a way to live?
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你们可以找到一种生活的方式吗？
17:53
Can you see that the sweetest revenge
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你们可以理解对你们来说最快意的复仇，
17:56
is for you to live
a happy, full and free life?
a happy, full and free life?
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就是过着快乐，充实，无拘束的生活吗？
17:59
A life defined by you and nobody else.
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由你们而不是其他任何人来定义的生活？
18:02
Why do you want to become
just another dead Muslim kid?
just another dead Muslim kid?
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为什么你们想成为另一个死去的穆斯林孩子？
18:07
And for the rest of us, when will we start
listening to our young people?
listening to our young people?
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而对于剩下的我们，什么时候我们
才可以开始聆听我们的年轻人？
才可以开始聆听我们的年轻人？
18:12
How can we support them
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我们怎样才能支持他们，
18:13
in redirecting their pain
into something more constructive?
into something more constructive?
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将他们的痛苦引导变成更具建设性的东西？
18:18
They think we don't like them.
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他们认为我们不喜欢他们。
18:20
They think we don't care
what happens to them.
what happens to them.
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他们认为我们不在乎他们身上发生的事情。
18:23
They think we don't accept them.
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他们认为我们不接受他们。
18:24
Can we find a way
to make them feel differently?
to make them feel differently?
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2720
我们可以找到一种方法，
让他们有不一样的感受吗？
让他们有不一样的感受吗？
18:29
What will it take for us
to see them and notice them
to see them and notice them
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我们要怎么做才能在他们变成
受害者或是施暴者之前
受害者或是施暴者之前
18:32
before they become either the victims
or the perpetrators of violence?
or the perpetrators of violence?
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注意到他们？
18:37
Can we make ourselves care about them
and consider them to be our own?
and consider them to be our own?
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3576
我们可以关照他们，
并使他们成为我们的一员吗？
并使他们成为我们的一员吗？
18:40
And not just be outraged when the victims
of violence look like ourselves?
of violence look like ourselves?
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而不仅仅当我们成为
暴力受害者时才生气吗？
暴力受害者时才生气吗？
18:45
Can we find a way to reject hatred
and heal the divisions between us?
and heal the divisions between us?
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我们可以找到一种方法摒弃仇恨，
并且消除我们之间的隔阂吗？
并且消除我们之间的隔阂吗？
18:50
The thing is we cannot afford
to give up on each other or on our kids,
to give up on each other or on our kids,
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事实是我们不能承担相互放弃或是
放弃我们的孩子带来的后果，
放弃我们的孩子带来的后果，
18:54
even if they've given up on us.
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即使他们已经放弃了我们。
18:56
We are all in this together.
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我们身处同船。
18:59
And in the long term, revenge and violence
will not work against extremists.
will not work against extremists.
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从长远来看，报复和暴力不会对极端主义不利。
19:05
Terrorists want us
to huddle in our houses in fear,
to huddle in our houses in fear,
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恐怖分子想让我们恐惧的蜷缩在家中，
19:09
closing our doors and our hearts.
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2176
关上我们的房门，关上我们的心房。
19:11
They want us to tear open
more wounds in our societies
more wounds in our societies
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3816
他们想让我们在社会中撕开更多的伤口，
19:15
so that they can use them
to spread their infection more widely.
to spread their infection more widely.
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以便于他们进行更广泛的传播。
19:18
They want us to become like them:
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他们想让我们成为他们：
19:21
intolerant, hateful and cruel.
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2240
无法容忍异类，充满仇恨，残酷无情。
19:26
The day after the Paris attacks,
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巴黎恐怖袭击后的一天，
19:28
a friend of mine
sent this photo of her daughter.
sent this photo of her daughter.
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我的一个朋友发了这张她女儿的照片。
19:32
This is a white girl and an Arab girl.
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这是一个白人女孩和一个阿拉伯女孩。
19:35
They're best friends.
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她们是最好的朋友。
19:37
This image is the kryptonite
for extremists.
for extremists.
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这对极端分子来说是无法容忍的。
19:43
These two little girls
with their superpowers
with their superpowers
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这两个小女孩利用她们的超能力
展示了一个我们共同必须构建的社会，
19:46
are showing the way forward
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19:47
towards a society
that we need to build together,
that we need to build together,
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19:52
a society that includes and supports,
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一个包容和支持，
19:56
rather than rejects our kids.
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而不是排斥我们的孩子的社会。
19:59
Thank you for listening.
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感谢聆听。
20:01
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Deeyah Khan - FilmmakerDeeyah Khan is working to create intercultural dialogue and understanding by confronting the world's most complex and controversial topics.
Why you should listen
Deeyah Khan is an Emmy and Peabody award-winning documentary film director and founder of Fuuse, a media and arts company that puts women, people from minorities and third-culture kids at the heart of telling their own stories. In 2016, Khan became the first UNESCO Goodwill Ambassador for artistic freedom and creativity. She has received many honors for her work supporting freedom of expression, human rights and peace, including the Ossietzky Prize, the University of Oslo's Human Rights Award and the Peer Gynt Prize from the Parliament of Norway.
Born in Norway to immigrant parents of Pashtun and Punjabi ancestry, Khan's experience of living between different cultures, both the beauty and the challenges, shapes her artistic vision. Her 2012 multi-award winning documentary, Banaz: A Love Story, chronicles the life and death of Banaz Mahmod, a young British Kurdish woman murdered by her family in a so-called honor killing. Khan's second film, the Grierson and Bafta award-nominated Jihad, involved two years of interviews and filming with Islamic extremists, convicted terrorists and former jihadis. One of Fuuse's recent initiatives, born of Deeyah’s own experiences, is sister-hood, a digital magazine and series of live events spotlighting the voices of women of Muslim heritage. Khan has also produced a number of critically acclaimed albums, including Listen to the Banned, a compilation that brought together musicians from around the world who have been subject to persecution, 'censorship and imprisonment.
The focus of Khan's work and access to voices that are often overlooked and misunderstood has led to increasing demand as a speaker at international human rights events and platforms including the United Nations. She was described by The Times of London thus: "To say Deeyah Khan is an inspiration is an understatement. She is one of the bravest, most indomitable women … facing down bullies and extremists with intelligence and unflinching spirit."
(Photo: Geir Dokken)
Deeyah Khan | Speaker | TED.com