Taste3 2008
Jennifer 8. Lee: The hunt for General Tso
李竞寻求左宗棠鸡的由来
Filmed:
Readability: 4.4
1,520,028 views
记者李竞谈论了自己对于一些广为人知的美式中国菜的来源的研究，她探讨了中美这两种文化是如何结合在一起产生了一种全新而又美味的新菜肴。
Jennifer 8. Lee - Reporter
The possessor of the best byline in the New York Times, Jennifer 8. Lee reports on culture and city life. Her latest book is The Fortune Cookie Chronicles. Full bio
The possessor of the best byline in the New York Times, Jennifer 8. Lee reports on culture and city life. Her latest book is The Fortune Cookie Chronicles. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
There are more Chinese restaurants in this country
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在这个国家里的中国餐馆
00:19
than McDonald's, Burger King, Kentucky Fried Chicken and Wendy's, combined --
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比麦当劳®，汉堡王®，肯德基®和温蒂快餐®加起来还要多。
00:23
40,000, actually.
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事实上，有4万家。
00:24
Chinese restaurants have played an important role in American history,
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中餐馆在美国历史上发挥了很重要的作用，
00:27
as a matter of fact.
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这也是事实。
00:28
The Cuban missile crisis was resolved
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古巴导弹危机
00:30
in a Chinese restaurant
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是在华盛顿一个名叫“燕京宫”的中餐馆里
00:31
called Yenching Palace in Washington, D.C.,
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解决掉的。
00:33
which unfortunately is closed now,
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可惜的是，它现在关闭了，
00:35
and about to be turned into Walgreen's.
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而且要改建成沃尔格林连锁药店。
00:37
And the house that John Wilkes Booth
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而约翰·威尔克斯·布斯
00:38
planned the assassination of Abraham Lincoln
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刺杀了林肯总统的那座房子，
00:40
is actually also now a Chinese restaurant
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现在也变成了一家中餐馆，
00:43
called Wok 'n Roll, on H Street in Washington.
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就是位于华盛顿的“锅和卷”。
00:46
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
00:50
And it's not completely gratuitous,
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这个餐馆名也不是完全没意义的，
00:51
because wok and roll --
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因为锅和卷，
00:52
Chinese food and Japanese foods,
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中国菜和日本菜，
00:54
so it kind of works out.
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还是有点关系的。
00:55
And Americans love their Chinese food so much
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美国人如此的喜欢中国菜，
00:58
they've actually brought it into space.
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他们甚至带上了太空。
00:59
NASA, for example, serves thermal-stabilized sweet-and-sour pork
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比如说，美国宇航局就把恒温的糖醋猪肉
01:03
on its shuttle menu for its astronauts.
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列入了给宇航员准备的航天菜单。
01:06
So, let me present the question to you:
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那么，让我来问你们这样一个问题：
01:09
If our benchmark for Americanness is apple pie,
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如果我们自身的美国象征是个苹果派，
01:11
you should ask yourself,
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你应该问你自己，
01:12
how often do you eat apple pie,
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你多久吃一次苹果派？
01:13
versus how often do you eat Chinese food. Right?
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还有多久吃一次中国菜？
01:16
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
01:21
And if you think about it,
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如果你仔细想想，
01:22
a lot of the foods that you think of
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你就会发现
01:25
or we think of or Americans think of as Chinese food
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有很多你们认为，我们认为或者美国人认为是中国菜的食物，
01:28
are barely recognizable to Chinese,
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中国人并不认识。
01:30
for example: beef with broccoli, egg rolls, General Tso's Chicken,
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比如说： 西兰花牛肉，蛋卷，左宗棠鸡，
01:34
fortune cookies, chop suey, the take-out boxes.
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幸运饼干，炒杂烩，外卖盒子。
01:37
For example, I took a whole bunch of fortune cookies back to China,
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例如，我拿了一大盒幸运饼干带回中国，
01:41
gave them to Chinese to see how they would react.
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给中国人吃，来看看他们会有怎样的反应。
01:42
What is this?
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这是什么？
01:44
Should I try it?
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我可以尝尝吗？
01:46
Try it!
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尝一尝。
01:51
What is it called?
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这叫什么名字啊？
01:53
Fortune cookie.
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幸运饼干。
01:58
There's a piece of paper inside!
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里面有张纸啊～
02:00
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
02:05
What is this?
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这是什么？
02:07
You've won a prize!
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你中奖了！
02:12
What is this?
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这是什么？
02:15
It's a fortune!
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是一个幸运。
02:18
Tasty!
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挺好吃的。
02:22
So, where are they from?
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那么，他们是从哪里来的？
02:23
The short answer is, actually, they're from Japan.
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简单的说，他们是从日本来的。
02:25
And in Kyoto, outside,
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在京都城外，
02:27
there are still small family-run bakeries
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现在还有些小型的家庭糕点坊
02:29
that make fortune cookies,
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在制作幸运饼干。
02:31
as they did over 100 years ago,
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就像他们一百多年以前做的一样。
02:33
30 years before fortune cookies were introduced in the United States.
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三十年后幸运饼干就传入了美国。
02:37
If you see them side by side,
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如果你把他们摆在一起看，
02:39
there's yellow and brown.
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你会发现一个是黄色，一个是棕色。
02:41
Theirs are actually flavored with miso and sesame paste,
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日式的加入了豆面酱和芝麻酱，
02:43
so they're not as sweet as our version.
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没有我们的甜。
02:45
So, how did they get to the United States?
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那么，他们是怎样传入美国的呢？
02:47
Well, the short answer is, the Japanese immigrants came over,
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简单说来，日本移民来到了美国，
02:50
and a bunch of the bakers introduced them --
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一群面包师就引进了他们。
02:52
including at least one in Los Angeles,
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洛杉矶至少有一家，
02:54
and one here in San Francisco
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在旧金山这里有一家。
02:56
called Benkyo-do, which is on the corner of Sutter and Buchanan.
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名字叫做学习堂。
02:58
They back then, actually,
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在那时，
03:00
made fortune cookies using very much the similar kind of irons
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他们制作幸运饼干用的模具
03:04
that we saw back in Kyoto.
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和我们在京都看见的非常相似。
03:05
So, the interesting question is,
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有意思的是，
03:07
how do you go from fortune cookies being something that is Japanese
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幸运饼干是怎么从日本的东西
03:10
to being something that is Chinese?
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变成中国的东西了的呢？
03:12
Well, the short answer is,
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简单的说，
03:13
we locked up all the Japanese during World War II,
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二战时，我们收押了所有的日本人，
03:15
including those that made fortune cookies,
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包括了那些做幸运饼干的人。
03:17
so that's the time when the Chinese moved in,
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就在这时候，中国人来了，
03:18
kind of saw a market opportunity and took over.
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发现了一个市场机遇，就据为己有了。
03:21
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:23
So, fortune cookies:
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因此，幸运饼干，
03:24
invented by the Japanese,
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由日本人发明，
03:25
popularized by the Chinese,
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由中国人推广，
03:26
but ultimately consumed by Americans.
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而最终给美国人消费。
03:28
They are more American than anything else.
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他们比任何东西都要具有美国特色。
03:30
Another one of my favorite dishes:
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接下来是我最喜欢的菜肴之一，
03:32
General Tso's Chicken --
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左宗棠鸡。
03:33
which, by the way, in the US Naval Academy
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顺便提一下，在美国海军军官学校，
03:34
is called Admiral Tso's Chicken.
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它被叫做左司令鸡。
03:37
I love this dish.
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我喜欢这道菜。
03:39
The original name in my book was actually called
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在我的书中，它原本被叫做
03:40
The Long March of General Tso,
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左宗棠将军的长征。
03:42
and he has marched very far indeed,
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他确实是前进了非常远，
03:43
because he is sweet, he is fried, and he is chicken --
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因为他是甜的，是油炸的，是鸡肉做的——
03:46
all things that Americans love.
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这三样都是美国人最喜欢的。
03:48
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:50
He has marched so far, actually,
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他前进了如此之远，
03:51
that the chef who originally invented the dish
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连发明了这道菜的厨师都认不出来了。
03:54
doesn't recognize it; he's kind of horrified.
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他有点被吓到了。
04:07
He's in Taiwan right now.
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他现在在台湾，
04:09
He's retired, deaf and plays a lot of Mahjong.
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退休了，耳聋了，打很多麻将。
04:11
So, he -- after this I showed him,
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在我把图片给他看后，
04:13
he got up,
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他站起来，
04:14
and he's like, "Mominqimiao,"
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说着“莫名其妙”
04:16
which means, "This is all nonsense,"
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意思是“我完全不明白”
04:17
and goes back to play his Mahjong game during the afternoon.
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然后回去继续打了一下午的麻将。
04:20
So, another dish. One of my favorites. Beef with broccoli.
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另外一道我喜欢的菜，西兰花牛肉。
04:24
Broccoli is not a Chinese vegetable;
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西兰花不是中国的蔬菜，
04:28
in fact, it is originally an Italian vegetable.
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事实上，它是意大利的蔬菜。
04:31
It was introduced into the United States in the 1800s,
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19世纪初时，引进了美国，
04:33
but became popularized in the 1920s and the 1930s.
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在20世纪20到30年代开始受到欢迎。
04:36
In fact, the Chinese had their own version of broccoli,
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中国人也有自己的西兰花，
04:38
which is called Chinese broccoli,
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就是油菜。
04:39
but right now, what -- they've now discovered American broccoli,
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但是现在，中国人发现了美国的西兰花，
04:43
and are importing it as a, sort of, exotic delicacy.
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便开始把它当作外国食物来进口。
04:46
I guarantee you, General Tso never saw a stalk of broccoli in his life --
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我可以向你保证，左宗棠将军一辈子都没有见过一株西兰花。
04:50
and indeed, that actually was a picture of General Tso.
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这是一种左宗棠将军的图像。
04:53
I went to his home town.
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我去了他的家乡。
04:54
This is a billboard that says:
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这个宣传栏上写着：
04:55
"Welcome to the birthplace of General Tso."
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“欢迎来到左宗棠的故里。”
04:57
And I went looking for chicken.
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我去寻找小鸡，
04:58
Finally found a cow --
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最后找到一头母牛～
04:59
and did find chicken.
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还是找到了一些鸡，
05:03
Believe it or not,
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信不信由你，
05:04
these guys were actually crossing the road.
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这些家伙还真在过马路。
05:06
And --
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还有～
05:07
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
05:10
-- I actually found a whole bunch of General Tso's relatives
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我发现了一群左宗棠将军的亲戚，
05:13
who are still in the little town.
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他们仍然在这个小镇上生活。
05:14
This guy is now five generations removed from the General;
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这个人是左宗棠将军的第五代后代，
05:16
this guy is about seven.
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这个人差不多是第七代。
05:18
Showed them all the pictures of General Tso Chicken that I showed you,
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给他们看了我给你们看的这些左宗棠鸡的图片，
05:21
and they're like, we don't know this dish.
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他们都说，我们不知道这道菜。
05:23
And then they're like, is this Chinese food?
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他们还问，这是中国菜吗？
05:24
Because it doesn't look like Chinese food to them.
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因为对他们来说，这看上去不像中国菜。
05:27
But they weren't kind of surprised
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但是他们并没有对
05:29
I traveled around the world
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我大老远跑来拜访他们
05:30
to visit them,
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而感到惊讶，
05:32
because in their eyes he is, after all,
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因为在他们看来，左宗棠将军
05:34
a famous Qing dynasty military hero.
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到底是位著名的清朝名将。
05:35
He played an important role in the Taiping rebellion,
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他在镇压太平天国运动中发挥了重要的作用。
05:37
which was a war started by a guy
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太平天国运动的发起者，
05:39
who thought he was the son of God
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自称是上帝的儿子，
05:40
and the baby brother of Jesus Christ.
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耶稣的亲弟弟。
05:41
And caused the war that killed 20 million people --
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这场战争中，有2千万人丧生，
05:44
still the deadliest civil war in the world to this day.
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至今仍是世界上伤亡最惨重的战争。
05:49
So, you know, I realized when I was there,
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你知道吗，我那时就意识到了，
05:51
General Tso is kind of a lot like Colonel Sanders in America,
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左宗棠将军有点像美国的桑德斯上校，
05:54
in that he's known for chicken and not war.
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因为他是因为鸡肉而不是战争而闻名。
05:56
But in China, this guy's actually known
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但在中国，他确实是因为战争而不是鸡肉
05:58
for war and not chicken.
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而闻名。
06:00
But the granddaddy
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但我们可能要谈到的
06:01
of all the Chinese-American dishes
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所有美式中国菜
06:03
we probably ought to talk about
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的祖师爷
06:04
is chop suey,
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是炒杂烩。
06:07
which was introduced
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它是在20世纪初的时候
06:08
around the turn of the 20th century.
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传入美国的。
06:09
And according to New York Times,
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据《纽约时报》指出，
06:11
in 1904, there was an outbreak of Chinese restaurants all over town,
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在1904年，整个市镇上下，突然出现了很多中餐馆，
06:14
and "the city has gone 'chop suey' mad."
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“整个城市为了炒杂烩而疯狂。”
06:17
So it took about 30 years
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过了30多年，
06:19
before the Americans realized that,
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美国人才意识到，
06:21
whoa, chop suey is actually not known in China.
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原来在中国，没有人知道炒杂烩。
06:24
And as this article points out,
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就如同这篇文章所指出的一样，
06:25
"The average native of any city in China
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“中国任何一个城市里的普通老百姓，
06:28
knows nothing of chop suey."
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完全不知道炒杂烩。”
06:30
You know, back then it was a way to show
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在那时，有一种办法来显示
06:32
that you were sophisticated and cosmopolitan:
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你很老于世故有世界意识。
06:33
if you were a guy and you wanted to impress a girl,
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如果你是个男人，你想要给一个女孩留下深刻印象，
06:35
you could take her out on a chop suey date.
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那么你可以带她出去吃炒杂烩。
06:37
I like to say
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我想说，
06:38
chop suey's the biggest culinary joke
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炒杂烩是一个文化给另外一个文化
06:40
that one culture has ever played on another,
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开的最大的一个烹饪玩笑。
06:42
because chop suey,
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因为炒杂烩，
06:43
if you translate into Chinese,
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如果你翻译成中文，
06:44
means tsap sui, which, if you translate back,
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意思是“杂碎”，在翻译过来，
06:45
means "odds and ends."
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就是“零碎的东西”。
06:46
So, these people are going around China asking for chop suey,
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因此，很多人去中国要吃炒杂烩，
06:50
which is sort of like a Japanese guy
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这就有点像有个日本人
06:52
coming here and saying,
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来到美国说，
06:53
I understand you have a very popular dish in your country
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你知道你们国家有一道非常有名的菜，
06:55
called "leftovers," and it is particularly --
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叫做“剩菜”
06:58
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
07:00
-- right?
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—— 对吧？
07:02
And not only that:
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还不仅仅是这，
07:05
this dish is particularly popular
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这道菜尤其著名，
07:07
after that holiday you call Thanksgiving.
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是在你们称之为“感恩节”的节日后。
07:09
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
07:10
So, why -- why and where --
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那么，炒杂烩
07:12
did chop suey come from?
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为什么，从哪里来呢？
07:13
Let's go back to mid-1800s
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让我们回到19世纪中页，
07:16
when the Chinese first came to America.
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第一批中国移民来到美国的时候。
07:18
Now back then, the Americans
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那时，美国人
07:20
were not clamoring to eat Chinese food.
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并不喜欢吃中国菜。
07:21
In fact, they saw this people who landed at their shores as alien.
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事实上，他们把这些移民当做外星人。
07:27
These people weren't eating dogs --
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这些人没有吃狗肉，
07:28
they were eating cats --
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就在吃猫肉，
07:29
and they weren't eating cats -- they were eating rats.
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没有吃猫肉，就在吃老鼠肉。
07:30
In fact, The New York Times, my esteemed employer,
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事实上，我尊敬的雇主《纽约时报》
07:33
in 1883 ran an article that asked,
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在1883年发表了一篇文章说，
07:34
"Do Chinese eat rats?"
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“中国人吃老鼠肉吗？”
07:36
And not the most PC question to be asked today,
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现在看来，这并不是个政治正确的问题，
07:42
but if you kind of look at the popular imagery of the time,
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但是如果你稍微考虑一下当时的普遍情况，
07:44
not so outlandish.
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这个问题并没有特别怪异。
07:45
This is actually a real advertisement for rat poison
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这是19世纪末期的一个真正的
07:49
from the late 1800s,
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老鼠药广告。
07:51
and if you see, under the word "Clears" -- very small --
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你看，在“清除”这个字下面，非常小的字，
07:54
it says, "They must go,"
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写着，“一定要赶走他们。”
07:55
which refers not only to the rats,
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这里的“他们”不仅仅是指老鼠，
07:56
but to the Chinese in their midst,
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还指生活在他们当中的中国人。
07:58
because the way that the food was perceived
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因为当时人们对于食物的理解方式是，
08:01
was that these people who ate foods different from us
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和我们吃不一样的食物的人，
08:05
must be different from us.
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一定和我们不一样。
08:06
And another way that you saw, sort of, this sort of,
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你可以看到，对中国人的厌恶情绪
08:08
this antipathy towards the Chinese
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在另外一种方式
08:09
is through documents like this.
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表现为这样的文件。
08:10
This is actually in the Library of Congress;
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这份文件现存于美国国会图书馆；
08:12
it is a pamphlet published by Samuel Gompers,
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是由美国劳工运动的英雄，
08:14
hero of our American labor movement,
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塞缪尔·龚帕斯发表的。
08:17
and it's called, "Some Reason for Chinese Exclusion:
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它叫做“排除华人的一些理由：
08:19
Meat versus Rice: American Manhood against Asiatic Coolieism:
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肉食对大米：美国男人对亚洲苦力
08:23
Which shall survive?
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孰胜孰负？
08:24
And it basically made the argument
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这份文件基本上提出了一个论点，
08:27
that Chinese men who ate rice
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吃大米的中国人
08:28
would necessarily bring down the standard of living
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必然会降低吃肉食的美国人的
08:30
for American men who ate meat.
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生活标准。
08:32
And as a matter of fact, then,
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事实上，
08:34
this is one of the reasons
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这就是为什么我们一定要把他们排斥在我们国家之外
08:35
why we must exclude them from this country
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的原因之一。
08:37
So, with sentiments like these,
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因此，有了像这样的观点，
08:39
the Chinese Exclusion Act was sort of passed between 1882 and 1902,
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《排华法案》在1882年到1902年之间通过了。
08:45
the only time in American history
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那是美国历史上唯一一段时期，
08:47
when a group was specifically excluded
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一个群体会因为自己的民族特性
08:50
for its national origin or ethnicity.
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而被特别的排斥。
08:52
So, in a way, because the Chinese were attacked,
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在某种程度上说，因为中国人被攻击了，
08:55
chop suey was created as a defense mechanism.
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他们就发明了炒杂烩做为一种防卫机制。
08:58
Now, who came up with the idea of chop suey?
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那么，是谁想出来做炒杂烩的呢？
09:00
There's a lot of different mysteries, a lot of different legends,
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这里有很多不同的传说
09:02
but of the ones that I've found that I thought was most interesting
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但在我发现的一些故事中我认为最有趣的
09:05
is this article from 1904.
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是1904年的一篇文章。
09:06
A Chinese guy named Lem Sen
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一个叫做林森的中国人
09:08
shows up in Chinatown, New York City, and says,
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出现在了纽约的唐人街，说道，
09:10
I want you guys all to stop making chop suey,
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我要你们所有人都停止做炒杂烩，
09:12
because I am the original creator and sole proprietor
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因为我是炒杂烩菜的原始的发明者，
09:14
of the dish known as chop suey.
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也是唯一的所有者。
09:16
And the way that he tells it,
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据他所说，
09:17
there was a guy,
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有个人，
09:19
there was a famous Chinese diplomat that showed up,
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有个很著名的中国外交官来了，
09:22
and he was told to make a dish that looked very popular
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别人叫他做一道菜，要看起来很流行，
09:24
and could, quote, "pass" as Chinese.
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可以当作中国菜。
09:26
And as he said --
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他还说，
09:27
we would never print this today --
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我们今天也许都不会说出来，
09:29
but basically, the American man has become very rich.
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但是美国人都变的很有钱了。
09:33
Lem Sen, who's this guy:
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林森说：
09:34
I would have made this money, too,
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我本可以也赚这么多钱，
09:35
but I've spent all this time looking for the American man
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但我吧所以时间都花在了寻找那个
09:37
who stole my recipe.
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偷了我的食谱的美国人。
09:38
Now I've come and found him,
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现在我来到了这里找到了他，
09:39
and I want my recipe back
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我想把我的食谱要回来，
09:41
and I want everyone to stop making chop suey,
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我想要每个人都停止制造炒杂烩菜，
09:43
or pay me for the right to do the same.
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要不就付版权费给我。
09:44
So it was an early exercise
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这么看来，这是一次知识产权的
09:46
of intellectual property rights.
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早期运用。
09:48
So the thing is,
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问题是，
09:49
this kind of idea of Chinese-American food
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这种美式中国菜
09:52
doesn't exist only in America.
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并不仅仅存在于美国。
09:55
In fact, if you think about it,
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只有你想想就会发现，
09:56
Chinese food is the most pervasive food on the planet,
265
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中国菜是地球上最无处不在的食物，
09:58
served on all seven continents, even Antarctica,
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在七大洲上都有，甚至是南极洲。
10:01
because Monday night is Chinese food night at McMurdo Station,
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因为在南极洲最大的考察站麦克默多站
10:04
which is the main scientific station in Antarctica.
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星期一晚上是中国菜之夜。
10:07
So, you see different varieties of Chinese food.
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有许许多多不同种类的中国菜。
10:09
For example, there is French Chinese food,
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例如，有法式中国菜，
10:11
where they serve salt and pepper frog legs.
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他们提供椒盐蛙腿。
10:14
There is Italian Chinese food,
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有意式中国菜，
10:15
where they don't have fortune cookies,
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他们没有幸运饼干，
10:18
so they serve fried gelato.
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但他们有油炸意式冰淇淋。
10:19
My downstairs neighbor, Alessandra,
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我的楼下邻居亚历山大
10:20
was completely shocked when I told her,
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在我告诉她
10:22
"Dude, fried gelato is not Chinese."
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“伙计，油炸意式冰淇淋不是中国的。”之后无比震惊。
10:24
She's like, "It's not?
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她说，“不是的？
10:25
But they serve it in all the Chinese restaurants in Italy."
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但在意大利的每一家中餐馆都有的吃。”
10:27
(Laughter)
280
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（笑声）
10:32
And even the Brits have their own version.
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英国人也有有自己特色的中国菜。
10:34
This is a dish called crispy shredded beef,
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这道菜叫做酥碎牛肉丝，
10:36
which has a lot of crisp, a lot of shred, and not a lot of beef.
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有很多酥皮，很多碎屑，没有很多牛肉。
10:40
There is West Indian Chinese food,
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还有西印度中国菜，
10:42
there's Jamaican Chinese food,
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牙买加式中国菜，
10:43
there is Middle Eastern Chinese food,
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中东中国菜，
10:44
there's Mauritian Chinese food.
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毛里求斯中国菜。
10:46
This is a dish called Magic Bowl
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我发现了一道叫做魔术之碗
10:47
that I discovered.
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的菜。
10:48
There's Indian Chinese food,
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还有印度中国菜，
10:49
Korean Chinese food,
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韩式中国菜，
10:51
Japanese Chinese food,
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日式中国菜，
10:52
where they take the bao, the little buns,
293
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日本人把小包子
10:54
and they make them into pizza versions,
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做成了比萨。
10:55
and they take --
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他们还
10:57
and they -- like, totally randomly
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很随意的，
10:58
they'll take Chinese noodle dishes,
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他们把中式的面条，
11:01
and they'll just Ramen-ize them.
298
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也做出了日式拉面。
11:02
This is, like, this is something
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646000
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像这个，
11:03
that in the Chinese version has no soup.
300
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在中国的版本中就没有汤的。
11:05
So, there's Peruvian Chinese food,
301
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还有秘鲁中国菜，
11:07
which should not be mixed with Mexican Chinese food,
302
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不要和墨西哥中国菜混淆了，
11:09
where they basically take things
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因为后者基本上只是
11:10
and make it look like fajitas.
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把所有的菜都做得像墨西哥法士达铁板烧。
11:12
And then -- one thing:
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还有一个，
11:13
they have things like risotto chop suey.
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他们还有炒杂烩意式调味饭。
11:14
My personal favorite
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我在整个世界里
11:15
of all the restaurants I've encountered around the world
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见到的所以餐馆中我最喜欢的一个
11:19
was this one in Brazil, called "Kung Food."
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是在巴西的这个，叫做“功夫菜”
11:21
(Laughter)
310
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（笑声）
11:25
So, let's take a step back,
311
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让我们退回来一步，
11:26
and kind of, understand
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来想想，
11:28
what is to be appreciated in America.
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在美国有什么值得注意的。
11:31
McDonald's has, sort of,
314
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麦当劳®
11:34
garnered a lot of attention, a lot of respect,
315
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获得了很多的关注与尊重，
11:36
for basically standardizing
316
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因为其在二战后的美国
11:39
the menu, décor and dining experience
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在菜单，装潢和就餐体验方面
11:42
in post-World War II America.
318
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树立了一个基本的标准。
11:43
But you know what?
319
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但是你知道吗？
11:44
They actually did so
320
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他们实际上
11:45
through a centralized headquarters
321
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是通过伊利诺斯州的总部
11:46
out of Illinois, right?
322
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来做的这些的，是吧？
11:47
Chinese restaurants
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我可以说，
11:48
have done largely the same thing, I would argue,
324
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中餐馆也做了大致一样的事情，
11:51
with the menu and the décor --
325
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规范菜单，装潢
11:52
even the restaurant name --
326
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甚至是餐馆名称，
11:53
but without a centralized headquarters.
327
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但他们没有一个中心总部。
11:54
So, this actually became very clear to me
328
698000
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于是，在2005年3月30日的超级球抽奖活动中，
11:57
with the March 30, 2005 Powerball drawing,
329
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我明白了。
12:01
where, you know, they expected,
330
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1000
那一次抽奖，
12:02
based on the number of ticket sales they had,
331
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他们根据售出的彩票数目
12:04
to have three or four second-place winners --
332
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估计会有三四个二等奖获得者，
12:06
those are the people who match five or six Powerball numbers.
333
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就是那些猜中了五六个号码的人。
12:08
Instead, they had 110,
334
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1000
但他们有110个，
12:09
and they were completely shocked.
335
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2000
他们完全惊呆了。
12:11
They looked all across the country, and discovered
336
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他们在全国上下调查，
12:13
it couldn't necessarily be fraud,
337
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1000
发现不太可能是个骗局，
12:14
because it happened, you know,
338
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因为这些彩票
12:15
in different states, across different computer systems.
339
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是在不同的州，不同的电脑系统。
12:17
So whatever it was,
340
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不管是什么，
12:18
it caused people to sort of behave
341
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有种东西，让人们有了
12:19
in a mass synchronized way.
342
723000
2000
群体同步行为。
12:21
So, like, OK, maybe it had to do with the patterns
343
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好吧，也可能是那一小张彩票
12:23
on the little pieces of paper --
344
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上面的某种图案。
12:25
you know, like, it was a diamond,
345
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1000
就像也许是菱形，
12:26
or, you know, diagonal.
346
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或者是对角线。
12:27
It wasn't that.
347
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但不是这样的。
12:28
It wasn't that, so they're like,
348
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1000
不是这样的，他们就说，
12:29
OK, let's look at television,
349
733000
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让我们从电视节目上找找吧。
12:31
so they looked at an episode of "Lost."
350
735000
1000
因此，他们看了一集《迷失》
12:32
Now, I don't have a TV,
351
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我没有电视机，
12:33
which makes me a freak, but very productive, and --
352
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别人觉得我很古怪，但这使得我工作富有成效～
12:35
(Laughter)
353
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4000
（笑声）
12:39
-- and this episode of "Lost," I understand,
354
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2000
我知道，这一集《迷失》
12:41
where the overweight guy has a lucky number
355
745000
1000
讲的是一个白人的幸运号码，
12:42
which was not a lucky number,
356
746000
1000
事实上却不是幸运号码，
12:43
which was how long they'd been on the island,
357
747000
1000
讲的是他们在岛上呆了多长时间，
12:44
but they looked,
358
748000
1000
他们对照了，
12:45
and the numbers did not match.
359
749000
1000
号码不相符。
12:46
So they looked at "The Young and The Restless,"
360
750000
1000
他们还看了《不安分的青春》，
12:47
and it wasn't that, either.
361
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号码也不对。
12:48
So, it wasn't until the first guy shows up the next day,
362
752000
5000
直到第二天第一个获奖者出现
12:53
and they ask him,
363
757000
1000
他们问他，
12:54
"Where did you get your number from?"
364
758000
1000
“你的号码从哪里来的？”
12:55
He's like, "Oh, I got it from a fortune cookie."
365
759000
1000
他说，“哦，我从一个幸运饼干中得到的。”
12:56
This actually is a slip that one of the winners had,
366
760000
2000
这就是其中一个获奖者的幸运签，
12:58
because the Tennessee lottery security officials
367
762000
3000
因为田纳西州彩票安全局
13:01
were like, oh, no -- like, this can't be true.
368
765000
2000
觉得这不可能是真的，
13:03
But it was true,
369
767000
2000
但这是真的。
13:05
and basically, of those 110 people,
370
769000
3000
这110个人中，基本上有
13:08
and 104 of them or so
371
772000
1000
104个人
13:09
had gotten their number from the fortune cookie.
372
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2000
的号码是从幸运饼干中得到的。
13:11
(Laughter)
373
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（笑声）
13:13
Yeah. So, I went and started looking.
374
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3000
是的，因此，我开始调查。
13:16
I went across the country,
375
780000
1000
我跑遍了全国，
13:17
looking for these restaurants
376
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1000
来寻找那些
13:18
where these people had gotten their fortune cookies from.
377
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2000
获奖者吃到幸运饼干的餐馆。
13:21
You know, there are a bunch of them,
378
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1000
有很多家，
13:22
including Lee's China in Omaha --
379
786000
3000
包括在奥马哈市的李氏中餐厅，
13:25
which is actually run by Koreans, but that's another point --
380
789000
2000
事实上那是由韩国人开的，但这不是重点。
13:27
and a bunch of them named China Buffet.
381
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3000
还有很多家叫做自助中餐。
13:30
So, what's interesting is that their stories were similar,
382
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有意思的是，他们的故事都相似，
13:33
but they were different.
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但却有所不同。
13:34
It was lunch, it was take-out,
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有的是午餐，有的是外卖，
13:35
it was sit-down, it was buffet,
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有的是坐下来吃，有的是自助餐，
13:37
it was three weeks ago, it was three months ago.
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有的是三星期前，有的是三个月前。
13:39
But at some point,
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但在某种程度上，
13:40
all these people had a very similar experience
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所以这些人都有一个非常相似的经历，
13:42
that converged at a fortune cookie and at a Chinese restaurant,
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在一个中餐馆，吃了一个幸运饼干。
13:45
and all these Chinese restaurants
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所有这些中餐馆
13:47
were serving fortune cookies,
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都有幸运饼干。
13:48
which, of course we know
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而我们已经知道，
13:49
aren't even Chinese to begin with.
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这些饼干一开始就不是中国的。
13:50
So it's kind of part of the phenomenon
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这就有点像我所说的
13:52
I called spontaneous self-organization, right,
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自发组织现象。
13:55
where, like in ant colonies,
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就像在蚂蚁群中，
13:57
where little decisions made by -- on the micro-level
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在微观层面上做出的小小的决定，
14:00
actually have a big impact on the macro-level.
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会在宏观层面上产生巨大的影响。
14:02
So, a good sort of contrast
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一个很好的对比是，
14:05
is Chicken McNuggets.
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麦当劳®的麦乐鸡块。
14:06
McDonald's actually spent 10 years
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麦当劳®花了十年
14:07
coming out with a chicken-like product.
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才推出了鸡肉之类的产品。
14:10
They did chicken pot pie,
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他们做了鸡肉馅饼，
14:11
they did fried chicken,
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炸鸡，
14:12
and then they finally introduced Chicken McNuggets.
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他们最后推出了麦乐鸡块。
14:14
And the great innovation of Chicken McNuggets
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麦乐鸡块的新发明，
14:16
was not nuggetfying them,
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并没有给他们带来金块，
14:18
because that's kind of an easy concept,
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因为这个想法很简单，
14:19
but the trick behind Chicken McNuggets was,
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但麦乐鸡块背后的技巧是，
14:21
they were able to remove the chicken from the bone
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如何用一种划算的方式来
14:23
in a cost-effective manner,
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把鸡肉从骨头上剔出来。
14:24
which is why it took so long
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这就是为什么过了这么久
14:26
for other people to copy them.
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才有人模仿他们。
14:27
It took 10 years,
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花了十年时间，
14:28
and then within a couple of months,
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然后在短短几个月之内，
14:29
it was such a hit
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他们就推出了麦乐鸡块，
14:30
they just introduced it and rolled it across
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并在全国麦当劳连锁的整个系统中都推广了，
14:31
the entire system of McDonald's in the country.
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可真是风行一时。
14:33
In contrast,
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相反，
14:34
we have General Tso's Chicken,
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我们有左宗棠鸡，
14:35
which actually started in New York City in the early 1970s,
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是在20世纪70年代在纽约城里兴起的，
14:38
as I was also starting in the university in New York City in the early 1970s, so ...
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20世纪70年代初期，我也正在纽约读大学～
14:43
And this logo!
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还有这个标志！
14:44
So me, General Tso's Chicken and this logo
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于是，我，左宗棠鸡，还有这个标志
14:45
are all karmacally related.
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都在宇宙范围内有了联系。
14:46
But that dish also took about 10 years
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但是这道菜也花了将近十年，
14:49
to spread across America
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才从纽约城里的某家餐馆
14:50
from a random restaurant in New York City.
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推广到全国的。
14:52
Someone's like,
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有人想到，
14:53
oh, God -- it's sweet, it's fried, it's chicken:
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噢，天哪～ 这道菜是甜的，是油炸的，是鸡肉做的：
14:54
Americans will love this.
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美国人一定会喜欢。
14:56
So, what I like to say, you know, this being sort of Bay Area, Silicon Valley --
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我想说的是，如果这是海湾地区，硅谷
15:00
is that we think of McDonald's
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我们可以把麦当劳®看作
15:01
as sort of the Microsoft of the dining experiences.
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是餐饮业的微软。
15:04
We can think of Chinese restaurants perhaps as Linux:
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我们可以把中餐馆看作Linux:
15:07
sort of an open source thing, right,
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一种开源系统，对吧？
15:09
where ideas from one person can be
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一个人的想法
15:12
copied and propagated across the entire system,
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可以在这整个系统中被复制，被普及。
15:15
that there can be specialized versions of Chinese food,
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在不同的地区，就有特别版本的
15:19
you know, depending on the region.
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中国菜。
15:20
For example, you know,
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比如说，
15:22
in New Orleans we have Cajun Chinese food,
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在新奥尔良，我们有法人后裔风味的中国菜，
15:24
where they serve Sichuan alligator and sweet and sour crawfish, right?
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你可以吃到四川短吻鳄和糖醋小龙虾。
15:28
And in Philadelphia,
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在费城，
15:29
you have Philadelphia cheesesteak roll,
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你可以吃到费城奶酪牛排卷，
15:31
which looks like an egg roll on the outside,
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它外面看上去像一个蛋卷，
15:32
but a cheesesteak on the inside.
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但在里面有奶酪牛排。
15:33
I was really surprised to discover that,
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我很惊讶的发现，
15:35
not only in Philadelphia, but also in Atlanta,
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不仅仅是在费城有，在亚特兰大也有。
15:38
because what had happened
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原因是，
15:39
was that a Chinese family had moved
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一个中国家庭
15:40
from Atlanta to -- sorry, from Philadelphia to Atlanta,
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从费城搬到了亚特兰大，
15:44
and brought that with them.
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把奶酪牛排卷也带过去了。
15:46
So, the thing is,
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问题是，
15:47
our historical lore,
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我们的历史知识中，
15:48
because of the way we like narratives,
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由于我们对于叙事故事的喜爱，
15:49
are full of vast characters
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充斥了大量的人物。
15:51
such as, you know, Howard Schultz of Starbucks
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比如说，星巴克®的霍尔德·舒尔茨
15:53
and Ray Kroc with McDonald's
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麦当劳®的雷·克拉克
15:55
and Asa Chandler with Coca-Cola.
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还有可口可乐®的艾萨·凯德勒
15:58
But, you know,
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但是，你知道，
15:59
it's very easy to overlook the smaller characters -- oops --
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我们非常容易忽视掉小人物。
16:02
for example, like Lem Sen,
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比如说，发明了炒杂烩的
16:03
who introduced chop suey,
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林森，
16:05
Chef Peng,
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发明了左宗棠鸡的
16:06
who introduced General Tso Chicken,
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彭厨师，
16:07
and all the Japanese bakers
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还有发明了幸运饼干的
16:09
who introduced fortune cookies.
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所有日本面包师。
16:11
So, the point of my presentation is
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我这篇报告的目的是，
16:13
to make you think twice,
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让你能够反复的思考，
16:15
that those whose names are forgotten in history
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那一些名字被历史遗忘了的人，
16:17
can often have had as much,
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对于我们现在吃的食物，
16:18
if not more, impact on what we eat today.
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有着同样，也许更加重要的影响。
16:21
So. Thank you very much.
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谢谢大家。
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jennifer 8. Lee - ReporterThe possessor of the best byline in the New York Times, Jennifer 8. Lee reports on culture and city life. Her latest book is The Fortune Cookie Chronicles.
Why you should listen
Jennifer 8. Lee is a reporter for the New York Times, starting with the paper as a tech writer for the Circuits section. She's now a metropolitan reporter for the paper, turning in sparkling and intricately reported stories of city life. NPR called her a "conceptual scoop" artist -- finding and getting details on new lifestyle trends that we all want to talk about.
Her fascination with American Chinese food led her to research and write The Fortune Cookie Chronicles, in which she solves some of the enduring mysteries around this indigenous cuisine, including such questions as: "Who is General Tso and why are we eating his chicken?" and "Why do Jews eat Chinese food on Christmas?"
Jennifer 8. Lee | Speaker | TED.com