EG 2007
Ian Dunbar: Dog-friendly dog training
伊恩.邓巴的“狗性化”训练
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训狗专家伊恩.邓巴在2007年EG会议上倡导我们用“狗眼”看世界。我们可以通过了解狗的想法与狗建立感情和信任。这也是一个超越动物世界，能（在人际关系上）引起广泛共鸣的思维方式。
Ian Dunbar - Animal behaviorist
Veterinarian, dog trainer and animal behaviorist Ian Dunbar understands our pets' point of view. By training dog owners in proper conduct (as much as he trains the dogs themselves), he hopes to encourage better relationships with dogs -- not to mention their friends and children, too. Full bio
Veterinarian, dog trainer and animal behaviorist Ian Dunbar understands our pets' point of view. By training dog owners in proper conduct (as much as he trains the dogs themselves), he hopes to encourage better relationships with dogs -- not to mention their friends and children, too. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
Dogs have interests.
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狗是有喜好的
00:18
They have interest sniffing each other, chasing squirrels.
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它们喜欢相互嗅探，追逐松鼠。
00:24
And if we don't make that a reward in training, that will be a distraction.
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要是我们不把它们的喜好作为训练过程中的奖赏，那这些喜好就会让它们分心。
00:29
It's always sort of struck me as really a scary thought
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这样的一个想法常使我震撼。
00:34
that if you see a dog in a park, and the owner is calling it,
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如果公园里有一只狗，它的主人在叫它。
00:38
and the owner says, you know, "Puppy, come here, come here,"
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主人说：“狗狗，过来，来这儿。”
00:41
and the dog thinks, "Hmm, interesting.
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狗心想：“嗯，有意思。
00:44
I'm sniffing this other dog's rear end, the owner's calling."
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我正在嗅另一只狗的屁股，主人也在喊我。
00:48
It's a difficult choice, right?
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这真是为难我。”是吧？
00:50
Rear end, owner. Rear end wins.
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屁股，主人 —— （当然）屁股赢了。
00:52
I mean, you lose.
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是的，你输了。
00:54
You cannot compete with the environment,
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要是你是一只青春期的狗，
00:57
if you have an adolescent dog's brain.
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你是没法和环境抗衡的。
00:59
So, when we train, we're always trying to take into account
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所以，当我们训练狗的时候，我们一直试图
01:03
the dog's point of view.
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站在狗的角度思考。
01:05
Now, I'm here largely because
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今天我在这里（演讲）主要是因为
01:07
there's kind of a rift in dog training at the moment
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目前对狗的训练方法中存在分歧 ——
01:10
that -- on one side, we have people who think that you train a dog,
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一方面，有这样一些人，认为训练狗
01:14
number one, by making up rules, human rules.
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首先要制定规矩，人类的规矩。
01:18
We don't take the dog's point of view into account.
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我们不考虑狗是怎么想的。
01:20
So the human says, "You're going to act this way, damn it.
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所以这些人会说：“你要这么做，该死的（狗）。
01:23
We're going to force you to act against your will, to bend to our will."
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我们要强迫你去做违背你意愿的事情，要屈从于我们的意愿。”
01:27
Then, number two, we keep these rules a secret from the dog.
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第二，我们这些规矩对狗来说是保密的。
01:30
And then number three, now we can punish the dog
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第三，我们可以惩罚狗，
01:33
for breaking rules he didn't even know existed.
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如果它违反了它根本就不知道的规矩。
01:36
So you get a little puppy, he comes. His only crime is he grew.
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如果你有一只小狗，它奔向你 —— 它唯一的错就是它长大了。
01:40
When he was a little puppy, he puts his paws on your leg --
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当它还是个小狗的时候，它把爪子放到你腿上，
01:43
you know, isn't that nice?
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你感觉很好吧？
01:45
And you go, "Oh, there's a good boy."
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你会说:“哦，好孩子。”
01:47
You bend down, you pat him -- you reward him for jumping up.
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你弯下腰，轻轻拍它，作为对它跳跃的一种奖励。
01:51
His one mistake is he's a Tibetan mastiff, and a few months later,
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它的错误在于它是一只藏獒，几个月后，
01:55
he weighs, you know, 80 pounds.
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它的体重增加到80磅（约73斤）。
01:58
Every time he jumps up, he gets all sorts of abuse.
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每次它跳起来，它都会受到责骂。
02:01
I mean, it is really very, very scary the abuse that dogs get.
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对狗来说遭受到这些责骂是非常非常可怕的。
02:06
So, this whole dominance issue -- number one,
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有关（人对狗的）控制的问题，
02:10
what we get in dog training is this Mickey-Mouse interpretation
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我们对狗的训练是把（对狗来说）非常复杂的社会性系统
02:13
of a very complicated social system.
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当作米老鼠动画一样来草草对待。
02:16
And they take this stuff seriously.
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但是狗们把这个看的非常重要。
02:18
Male dogs are very serious about a hierarchy,
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公狗非常重视等级，
02:20
because it prevents physical fights.
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因为可以避免争斗。
02:23
Of course, female dogs, bitches, on the other hand,
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当然，另一方面，和母狗们
02:26
have several bitch amendments to male hierarchical rule.
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之间的规则是在公狗的等级制度之外的。
02:29
The number one is, "I have it, you don't."
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第一原则是：“我有，你没有”，
02:31
And what you will find is a very, very low-ranking bitch
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你会发现，一只非常非常低等级的母狗
02:35
will quite easily keep a bone away from a high-ranking male.
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能叼着一块骨头，不让高等级公狗拿到。
02:39
So, we get in dog training this notion of dominances,
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所以，我们在狗的训练中引入这个等级概念，
02:42
or of the alpha dog. I'm sure that you've heard this.
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或者说阿尔法狗（头号狗），你一定听说过。
02:45
Dogs get so abused.
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狗被如此虐待。
02:47
Dogs, horses and humans --
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狗，马和人 ——
02:49
these are the three species which are so abused in life.
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这是三个受虐物种。
02:52
And the reason is built into their behavior --
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原因是在于他们的天生的行为习惯就是
02:54
is to always come back and apologize.
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永远会回头来道歉。
02:57
Like, "Oh, I'm sorry you had to beat me. I'm really sorry, yes, it's my fault."
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比如：“哦，抱歉你还得打我，真的很抱歉，这是我的错。”
03:00
They are just so beatable,
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他们这么经打，
03:02
and that's why they get beaten.
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这就是他们挨打的原因。
03:04
The poor puppy jumps up, you open the dog book, what does it say?
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可怜的小狗跳起来，你打开关于狗的书，看看书里说什么呐？
03:09
"Hold his front paws, squeeze his front paws,
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“抓住它的前爪，使劲捏它的前爪。
03:11
stamp on his hind feet, squirt him in the face with lemon juice,
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踩住它的后腿，朝它脸上洒柠檬汁，
03:15
hit him on the head with a rolled-up newspaper,
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用报纸卷打它的头，
03:17
knee him in the chest, flip him over backwards."
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用膝盖压住它的胸部，使它做后转翻。”
03:19
Because he grew?
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就是因为它长大了？
03:21
And because he's performing a behavior you've trained him to do?
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是因为它正在做一个你已经训练过它的动作？
03:24
This is insanity.
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这真是不讲理。
03:27
I ask owners, "Well, how would you like the dog to greet you?"
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我问狗的主人：“你希望这只狗怎么欢迎你（回家）？”
03:30
And people say, "Well, I don't know, to sit, I guess."
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他说：“我不知道，我想应该是坐下吧”。
03:33
I said, "Let's teach him to sit."
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我说：“那让我们教它坐下。”
03:35
And then we give him a reason for sitting.
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然后我们给它一个坐下的理由。
03:39
Because the first stage
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因为第一阶段，
03:42
is basically teaching a dog ESL.
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是教给狗它的第二语言。
03:45
I could speak to you and say, "Laytay-chai, paisey, paisey."
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我可以对你说：“Laytay-chai, paisey, paisey ”（斯瓦希里语言），
03:50
Go on, something should happen now.
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（然后期待）接下来，应该有些反应。
03:52
Why aren't you responding? Oh, you don't speak Swahili.
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你为什么没有反应？哦，你不懂斯瓦希里语。
03:55
Well, I've got news for you.
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好吧，那我告诉你，
03:57
The dog doesn't speak English, or American, or Spanish, or French.
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狗也不懂什么英语，美语，西班牙语或者法语。
04:02
So the first stage in training is to teach the dog ESL,
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所以培训第一阶段是让狗学习“第二语言” ——
04:05
English as a second language.
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英语就是它的第二语言。
04:07
And that's how we use the food lure in the hand,
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这就关系到我们怎么用手里的食物来引导。
04:09
and we use food because we're dealing with owners.
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我们用食物因为我们和狗主人打交道。
04:12
My wife doesn't need food -- she's a great trainer,
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我妻子不需要食物，她是个好的训狗师，
04:14
much better than I am.
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比我好多了。
04:15
I don't need food, but the average owner says,
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我不需要食物。但是一般水平的狗主人说，
04:18
"Puppy, sit."
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“狗狗，坐下。”
04:20
Or they go, "Sit, sit, sit."
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或者一边说：“坐下，坐下，坐下。”
04:22
They're making a hand signal in front of the dog's rectum for some reason,
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同时他们在狗屁股前用手势大打出信号
04:25
like the dog has a third eye there -- it's insane.
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好像狗那里有第三只眼睛，这没用。
04:28
You know, "Sit, sit."
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（光说）“坐下，坐下”没用。
04:30
No, we go, "Puppy, sit" -- boom, it's got it in six to 10 trials.
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我们说 “狗狗，坐”，（然后给点吃的，） 狗狗6-10次之后就学会了。
04:34
Then we phase out the food as a lure,
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然后我们再逐步取消食物的引导。
04:36
and now the dog knows that "sit" means sit,
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现在狗知道了，“坐下”的意思是坐下。
04:38
and you can actually communicate to a dog
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你甚至可以用完美的英语句子
04:40
in a perfectly constructed English sentence.
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跟狗沟通。
04:42
"Phoenix, come here, take this, and go to Jamie, please."
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“Phoenix，过来这儿，请把这个拿过去给Jamie。”
04:46
And I've taught her "Phoenix," "come here," "take this," "go to"
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如果我已经教会了它“Phoenix”（狗的名字）, "过来"，"拿这个"，"去”，
04:49
and the name of my son, "Jamie."
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以及我儿子的名字“Jamie”，
04:51
And the dog can take a note,
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狗会记住这些，
04:53
and I've got my own little search-and-rescue dog.
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它能成为我的小搜救犬。
04:55
He'll find Jamie wherever he is, you know,
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它可以找到Jamie，不论Jamie在哪里，
04:57
wherever kids are, crushing rocks by a stream or something,
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不论孩子是在溪边玩石头还是什么的，
04:59
and take him a little message that says,
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还能带信息给他，比如
05:01
"Hey, dinner's ready. Come in for dinner."
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“嘿，晚饭好了，进来吃饭了”之类的。
05:04
So, at this point, the dog knows what we want it to do.
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所以，在这个角度上，狗能理解我们想要它做什么。
05:07
Will it do it?
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（问题是）它愿意做么？
05:09
Not necessarily, no.
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不一定。
05:11
As I said, if he's in the park and there's a rear end to sniff,
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像我前面说的，如果它在公园里，有其他的狗屁股可以嗅，
05:14
why come to the owner?
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它为什么要到主人这里来？
05:16
The dog lives with you, the dog can get you any time.
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狗跟你住在一起，它随时可以来找你。
05:19
The dog can sniff your butt, if you like, when he wants to.
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如果你愿意，狗想嗅你的时候也可以嗅你的屁股。
05:22
At the moment, he's in the park, and you are competing
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在这一刻，它在公园里，而你在和
05:24
with smells, and other dogs, and squirrels.
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其他气味，其他狗，和松鼠们竞争。（你肯定赢不了。）
05:27
So the second stage in training is to teach the dog to want to do
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所以训练第二阶段就是教给狗去自愿地做
05:31
what we want him to do, and this is very easy.
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那些我们想要它去做的事情。这其实很简单。
05:34
We use the Premack principle.
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我们采用普雷马克原理（用喜欢的行为作为不喜欢的行为，来有效地强化原本不喜欢的行为）。
05:36
Basically, we follow a low-frequency behavior --
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简单说，当狗作一个一个低频行为 ——
05:38
one the dog doesn't want to do --
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一个狗通常不会做的行为 ——
05:40
by a high-frequency behavior, commonly known as a behavior problem,
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我们马上让它作一个高频行为，通常被称做“行为问题”
05:44
or a dog hobby -- something the dog does like to do.
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或者“狗的爱好” --狗确实喜欢做的事情。
05:48
That will then become a reward for the lower-frequency behavior.
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这是让狗做这个低频行为的奖励。
05:51
So we go, "sit," on the couch; "sit," tummy-rub; "sit,"
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比如说（我们让它）“坐”，（它照作了，就可以允许它）到沙发上来；“坐”，它照作了，就可以）挠挠它的肚皮；“坐”，
05:55
look, I throw a tennis ball; "sit," say hello to that other dog.
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（它照作了，就可以）让一个球给它；“坐”， （它照作了，就可以）让它跟其它狗打个招呼。
05:59
Yes, we put "sniff butt" on queue.
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是的，我们把让狗“嗅屁股”也作为一个奖励。
06:01
"Sit," sniff butt.
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“坐”，（它照作了，就可以跑去） 嗅屁股。
06:03
So now all of these distractions that worked against training
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所有这些跟我们训练目标相反的，分散狗注意力的事情
06:07
now become rewards that work for training.
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都成为了对狗训练中的奖励。
06:10
And what we're doing, in essence, is we're teaching the dog, kind of like --
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我们现在做的，本质上说，是在教狗，也有点像 ——
06:15
we're letting the dog think that the dog is training us.
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我们让狗认为，狗在训练我们。
06:18
And I can imagine this dog, you know,
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我能想象的出，这只狗，
06:20
speaking through the fence to, say, an Akita,
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透过围栏给它的Akita狗朋友（日本秋田犬）说，
06:22
saying, "Wow, my owners, they are so incredibly easy to train.
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“哇，训练我的主人太容易了！
06:26
They're like Golden Retrievers.
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他们就像金毛寻猎犬。
06:28
All I have to do is sit, and they do everything.
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我只需要坐下来，他们就会（为我）做事情。
06:30
They open doors, they drive my car, they massage me,
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他们（为我）开门，开车带我出去，给我做按摩，
06:34
they will throw tennis balls,
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他们会扔网球给我，
06:36
they will cook for me and serve the food.
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他们会给我做饭，然后还把食物端过来。
06:38
It's like, if I just sit, that's my command.
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就像这样，我只要一坐下，我就在发号施令了。
06:41
Then I have my own personal doorman,
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然后，我就有了私人门卫，
06:43
chauffeur, masseuse, chef and waiter."
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私人司机，按摩师，厨师和侍者。”
06:47
And now the dog's really happy.
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现在狗也真的很开心。
06:49
And this, to me, is always what training is.
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这就是我说的训练。
06:51
So we really motivate the dog to want to do it,
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我们在激励狗去做想做的，
06:54
such that the need for punishment seldom comes up.
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这样就不怎么需要惩罚。
06:59
Now we move to phase three, when now --
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现在我们开始第三阶段，
07:02
there's times, you know, when daddy knows best.
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总会有些时候（你希望狗无条件地服从），你明白，那种“爸爸最知道”的时候。（美俚，意思是别问为什么，照我说的做就对了。）
07:04
And I have a little sign on my fridge, and it says,
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我的冰箱上有个小标签写着：
07:07
"Because I'm the daddy, that's why."
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“因为我是老爸，这就是原因。”
07:09
Sorry, no more explanation. "I'm the daddy, you're not. Sit."
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抱歉，不做过多解释 —— “我是老爸，你不是，坐下。”
07:13
And there's times, for example,
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或者有些时候 —— 比如
07:15
if my son's friends leave the door open,
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我儿子的朋友没有随手关门，
07:18
the dogs have to know you don't step across this line.
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狗必须知道“你不能跨出门去”。
07:22
This is a life-or-death thing.
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这是生死攸关的事情。
07:24
You leave this, the sanctity of your house,
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你离了这不可侵犯的房子，
07:27
and you could be hit on the street.
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你在大街上可能被车撞。
07:29
So some things we have to let the dog know,
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所以有些事情我们必须让狗知道，
07:31
"You mustn't do this."
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“你绝对不能这么做。”
07:33
And so we have to enforce, but without force.
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所以我们必须强迫，但是不能用暴力。
07:38
People here get very confused about what a punishment is.
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人们对什么是惩罚很糊涂。
07:42
They think a punishment is something nasty.
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他们认为惩罚必须非常暴力。
07:44
I bet a lot of you do, right?
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我打赌你也是这样想的，对吗？
07:46
You think it's something painful, or scary, or nasty.
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你认为惩罚是痛苦的，可怕的或者暴力的。
07:49
It doesn't have to be.
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其实不一定。
07:51
There's several definitions of what a punishment is,
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惩罚有几种定义，
07:54
but one definition, the most popular, is:
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但是最常见的一种定义是，
07:56
a punishment is a stimulus that reduces the immediately preceding behavior,
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惩罚是能减少前面刚刚发生的行为的一种刺激，
08:01
such that it's less likely to occur in the future.
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使得未来减少这种行为发生的可能性。
08:05
It does not have to be nasty, scary or painful.
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惩罚不一定是暴力的，令人害怕的或者痛苦的。
08:10
And I would say, if it doesn't have to be, then maybe it shouldn't be.
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要我说，如果惩罚不是一定要这样，那么惩罚就不应该是这样。
08:15
I was working with a very dangerous dog about a year ago.
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一年前我曾经接触过一只非常危险的狗——
08:18
And this was a dog that put both his owners in hospital,
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这只狗把它的两个主人“送”进了医院，
08:21
plus the brother-in-law, plus the child.
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还伤了主人的姐夫和孩子。
08:23
And I only agreed to work with it if they promised it would stay in their house,
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狗主人保证让它只呆在他们的房子里，不会带出来，
08:26
and they never took it outside.
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我才答应训练这只狗。
08:28
The dog is actually euthanized now,
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这只狗现在已经被安乐死了，
08:30
but this was a dog I worked with for a while.
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但是我曾经训练这只狗相当一段时间。
08:32
A lot of the aggression happened around the kitchen,
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在厨房里这只狗常表现出很多攻击性行为。
08:35
so while I was there -- this was on the fourth visit --
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所以当我在那里的时候-那是我第四次去拜访-
08:38
we did a four and a half hour down-stay, with the dog on his mat.
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我们整整四个半小时坐着不动，狗就坐在（厨房里）它的垫子上。
08:41
And he was kept there by the owner's calm insistence.
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狗主人命令狗保持不能动，
08:46
When the dog would try to leave the mat,
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每当狗试图离开垫子，
08:48
she would say, "Rover, on the mat, on the mat, on the mat."
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她就说：“Rover，呆在垫子上，呆在垫子上，呆在垫子上。”
08:52
The dog broke his down-stay 22 times in four and a half hours, while she cooked dinner,
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她做晚饭的时候，在这4个半小时里，狗曾22次打破“坐等”的命令。
08:57
because we had a lot of aggression related towards food.
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因为它对食物一直有“攻击性行为”。
09:01
The breaks got fewer and fewer.
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（当我们训练时）狗违背命令次数越来越少，
09:03
You see, the punishment was working.
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你看，惩罚正在发挥作用。
09:06
The behavior problem was going away.
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行为问题已经不见了。
09:08
She never raised her voice.
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她并没有提高嗓门。
09:10
If she did, she would have got bitten.
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如果她大声命令，狗就可能咬她。
09:13
It's not a good dog you shout at.
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这并不是一个你可以朝它大喊的好狗。
09:15
And a lot of my friends train really neat animals,
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我很多朋友训练过很好的狗—
09:18
grizzly bears -- if you've ever seen a grizzly bear
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比如灰熊，如果你曾经在电视或电影看到过灰熊，
09:20
on the telly or in film, then it's a friend of mine who's trained it --
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它是我一个朋友训练的。
09:23
killer whales. I love it because it wires you up.
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虎鲸—我爱极了它。
09:26
How are you going to reprimand a grizzly bear?
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你准备怎样去惩戒一只灰熊？
09:28
"Bad bear, bad bear!" Voom!
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“坏熊，坏熊！”轰！
09:30
Your head now is 100 yards away, sailing through the air, OK?
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你的头颅，划过长空，落在百米开外，对吧？
09:35
This is crazy.
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这是疯狂的。
09:37
So, where do we go from here?
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那么，我们怎么办？
09:39
We want a better way.
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我们想要一个更好的方法。
09:41
Dogs deserve better.
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我们应该对狗们更好些。
09:43
But for me, the reason for this actually has to do with dogs.
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但是对我来说，这么做是为了狗。
09:47
It has to do with watching people train puppies,
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这是在驯狗课上看人们训练小狗时，
09:50
and realizing they have horrendous interaction skills,
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在意识到它们和主人间不得了的互动能力，
09:55
horrendous relationship skills.
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和主人间不得了的亲密联系时有感而生的。
09:57
Not just with their puppy, but with the rest of the family at class.
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狗不光是和主人（有这种互动和亲密联系），和主人的家庭成员也一样（有）。
10:01
I mean, my all-time classic is another "come here" one.
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我的意思是，我常用的的是另一种意义上的“过来”的命令。
10:04
You see someone in the park -- and I'll cover my mic when I say this,
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你看到公园里某个狗的主人-我会掩上我的麦克风说，
10:07
because I don't want to wake you up -- and there's the owner in the park,
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因为我不想惊扰你 -- 主人在公园里
10:10
and their dog's over here, and they say, "Rover, come here.
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他们的狗在那边，他们喊：“Rover, 过来，
10:12
Rover, come here. Rover, come here, you son of a bitch."
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Rover 过来，Rover 过来，你个狗娘养的。”
10:16
The dog says, "I don't think so."
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而狗说：“我不这么认为。”
10:18
(Laughter)
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（笑）
10:19
I mean, who in their right mind
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我的意思是，哪些正常人
10:22
would think that a dog would want to approach them
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会认为当他们那样怒吼时
10:25
when they're screaming like that?
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狗会愿意接近他们？
10:27
Instead, the dog says, "I know that tone. I know that tone.
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相反的，狗会说：“我知道那个语调，我知道那个语调。
10:30
Previously, when I've approached, I've gotten punished there."
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上次（他用那个语调）而我过去的时候，我受到了惩罚。” （所以狗就更加不愿意过来。）
10:33
I was walking onto a plane --
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（这对于人类之间的关系也适用。）有一回我正在登机 ——
10:35
this, for me, was a pivotal moment in my career,
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对我来说，那是我职业生涯的重要时刻，
10:38
and it really cemented what I wanted to do
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因为那一刻我决定了在驯狗这件事上
10:40
with this whole puppy-training thing,
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我的宗旨 ——
10:42
the notion of how to teach puppies in a dog-friendly way
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这个“如何用友善的方式来训练狗做我们希望的事”的概念，
10:46
to want to do what we want to do, so we don't have to force them.
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这样我们就不需要强迫狗。
10:49
You know, I puppy-train my child.
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你知道，我用驯狗的方式“驯”我的孩子。
10:52
And the seminal moment was, I was getting on a plane in Dallas,
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在那个开创性的时刻，我在飞往达拉斯的飞机上，
10:55
and in row two was a father, I presume, and a young boy about five,
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在第二排坐着一位父亲，和一个大约五岁的男孩，
10:59
kicking the back of the chair.
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男孩踢椅子背，
11:01
"Johnny, don't do that."
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（那个父亲说：）“Jonny，不要这样。”
11:03
Kick, kick, kick.
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(孩子还是）踢，踢，踢。
11:04
"Johnny, don't do that." Kick, kick, kick.
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“Jonny，不许踢。”（孩子还是）踢，踢，踢。
11:06
I'm standing right here with my bag.
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我就带着我的行李站在那里。
11:08
The father leans over, grabs him like this and gives him ugly face.
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那个父亲俯下身，这样抓住男孩，面色难看。
11:12
And ugly face is this --
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脸色难看是这样的 ——
11:14
when you go face-to-face with a puppy or a child,
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当你和一只狗或者一个孩子面对面，
11:17
you say, "What are you doing! Now stop it, stop it, stop it!"
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你说：“你在干什么！现在就停下来，停，停！”
11:20
And I went, "Oh my God, do I do something?"
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然后我走过去：“哦，天呢，我能做点什么？”
11:23
That child has lost everything --
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那个男孩已经懵了——
11:26
that one of the two people he can trust in this world
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这个世界上他能信任的两人中之一（指他父亲）
11:29
has absolutely pulled the rug from under his feet.
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已经彻底”抛弃“他了。
11:32
And I thought, "Do I tell this jerk to quit it?"
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我在想：“我要告诉这个蠢人不要这样做吗？”
11:34
I thought, "Ian, stay out of it, stay out of it, you know, walk on."
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我想：“甭管了，不管了，走吧。”
11:37
I walked to the back of the plane,
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我走到飞机后舱，
11:39
I sat down, and a thought came to me.
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我坐下来，忽然想到，
11:42
If that had been a dog, I would have laid him out.
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如果刚才那个场面是对一只狗，我会去把他撂倒。
11:44
(Laughter)
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（笑）
11:45
If he had kicked a dog, I would have punched him out.
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如果他踢了一只狗，我会给他一拳。
11:49
He kicked a child, grabs the child like this and I let it go.
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他吓了一个孩子，这样抓住孩子，我却放任不管。
11:54
And this is what it's all about.
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这就是我想说的。
11:57
These relationship skills are so easy.
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这些人际关系的技巧非常简单。（对狗和人都一样。）
11:59
I mean, we as humans, our shallowness when we choose a life-mate
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我们作为人，我们寻找人生伴侣是浅薄的，就基于三点，
12:04
based on the three Cs -- coat color, conformation, cuteness.
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肤色，体型和外貌。
12:08
You know, kind of like a little robot.
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你看，有点像小机器人。
12:10
This is how we go into a relationship, and it's hunky-dory for a year.
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我们就这样开始了我们的爱情，很棒的过了大概一年，
12:13
And then, a little behavior problem comes up.
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接下来行为问题就出现了。
12:15
No different from the dog barking.
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跟狗长大了开始叫没什么不同。
12:17
The husband won't clear up his clothes,
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丈夫不清理衣物，
12:19
or the wife's always late for meetings, whatever it is, OK?
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妻子约会总迟到，诸如此类的，对吧？
12:23
And it then starts, and we get into this thing,
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这就开始啦，我们就开始（有反应）了，
12:27
and our personal feedback -- there's two things about it.
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我们主观的个人反馈 —— 这个问题有两方面。
12:29
When you watch people interacting with animals or other people,
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当你观察人和狗或者人和人之间的互动，
12:32
there is very little feedback, it's too infrequent.
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一个是太少反馈，太少了。
12:36
And when it happens, it's bad, it's nasty.
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（第二个是）当一旦有反馈时，（这些反馈又是）非常糟糕的，非常暴力的。
12:39
You see it's especially in families, especially with spouses,
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尤其是发生在家庭中，发生在配偶之间，
12:44
especially with children, especially with parents.
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发生在孩子和父母之间。
12:47
You see it especially in the workplace,
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在工作场合你也能看到这种情况，
12:49
especially from boss to employee.
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特别是老板对待员工。
12:51
It's as if there's some schadenfreude there,
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说起来有点幸灾乐祸的味道 ——
12:54
that we actually take delight in people getting things wrong,
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我们实际上以别人犯错为乐，
12:57
so that we can then moan and groan and bitch at them.
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这样我们才能悲叹，抱怨和辱骂他们。
13:02
And this, I would say, is the biggest human foible that we have.
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这个，依我看，是我们人类最大的弱点。
13:06
It really is.
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真的是这样。
13:08
We take the good for granted, and we moan and groan at the bad.
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我们认为好的是理所当然，悲叹和抱怨不好的。
13:11
And I think this whole notion of these skills should be taught.
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我认为这个（奖励好的行为的）概念，这个处理所有人际关系的技巧，应该（在学校里）教 ——
13:14
You know, calculus is wonderful.
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当然，（通常在学校里教的那些课，比如）微积分是非常棒的。
13:16
When I was a kid, I was a calculus whiz.
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我是个算数神童。
13:18
I don't understand a thing about it now, but I could do it as a kid.
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我现在不行了，但是我小时候可以做得很好。
13:22
Geometry, fantastic. You know, quantum mechanics --
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（再比如）几何，棒极了，量子力学 ——
13:25
these are cool things.
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这些都很酷。
13:27
But they don't save marriages and they don't raise children.
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但是这些课不能（帮你）挽救婚姻，不能培养孩子。
13:31
And my look to the future is,
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我对未来的展望是，
13:33
and what I want to do with this doggy stuff, is to teach people
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我想做的整个“狗事情”就是要告诉大家，
13:36
that you know, your husband's just as easy to train.
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驯夫其实很容易。
13:39
Probably easier -- if you got a Rottie -- much easier to train.
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可能更容易些 —— 要是你有一只狗像Rotty（上面提到的难驯的狗）那样，（你的丈夫）驯起来要容易得多。
13:44
Your kids are easy to train.
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你的孩子们也容易驯。
13:46
All you've got to do is to watch them,
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你所要做的就是观察他们，
13:48
to time-sample the behavior, and say, every five minutes,
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定时观察（他们的）行为，比如，每隔五分钟，
13:50
you ask the question, "Is it good, or is it bad?"
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你问自己：“（他们的表现）是好， 还是坏？”
13:53
If it's good, say, "That was really neat, thank you."
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如果他们表现好，你就（对他们）说：“（你做的）非常好，谢谢。”
13:56
That is such a powerful training technique.
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这是一个非常强大的训练技巧。
13:58
This should be taught in schools.
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我们应该在学校里教（学生这个技巧）。
14:00
Relationships -- how do you negotiate?
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人际关系 —— 你如何沟通？
14:02
How you do negotiate with your friend who wants your toy?
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你该如何跟一个想要你的玩具的朋友沟通？
14:05
You know, how to prepare you for your first relationship?
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你该怎么准备你的第一段感情？
14:08
How on earth about raising children?
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究竟应该如何抚养孩子？
14:10
We think how we do it -- one night in bed, we're pregnant,
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我们觉得我们知道怎么做 —— 结果有一晚上， 我们怀孕了，
14:12
and then we're raising the most important thing in life, a child.
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然后我们就要抚养生命中最重要的东西 —— 孩子。
14:15
No, this is what should be taught -- the good living, the good habits,
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这种（用奖励来加强好的习惯的）沟通技巧大家都应该学 —— 好的生活方式，好的习惯，
14:20
which are just as hard to break as bad habits.
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就像坏习惯一样难以改变。
14:24
So, that would be my wish to the future.
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这，就是我对未来的希望。
14:26
Ah, damn, I wanted to end exactly on time,
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啊，见鬼，我想要准时结束（我的演讲）。
14:28
but I got eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two --
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但我还有8秒，7，6，5，4，3，2 ——
14:34
so thank you very much. That's my talk, thank you.
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谢谢大家，我的演讲到此结束，谢谢。
14:36
(Applause)
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掌声。
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Ian Dunbar - Animal behavioristVeterinarian, dog trainer and animal behaviorist Ian Dunbar understands our pets' point of view. By training dog owners in proper conduct (as much as he trains the dogs themselves), he hopes to encourage better relationships with dogs -- not to mention their friends and children, too.
Why you should listen
We may call dogs man's best friend, but according to Dr. Ian Dunbar, humans often fail to reciprocate. Dunbar's decades of research on hierarchical social behavior and aggression in domestic animals truly give him a dog's-eye view of human beings' incomprehensible and spontaneous -- if involuntary -- cruelties.
Dunbar says we might break our unseemly, unflattering habits and usher in an "era of dog-friendly dog training" by coming to understand why dogs do what they do -- Is Fido misbehaving, or just being a dog? -- and the repercussions of our actions toward them. (We might foster better relationships with our fellow humans, too.) His Sirius Dog Training company focuses on training puppies to be playful, yet well-behaved. His second organization, Animalin, promotes games for dogs and puppies at an international level.
Dunbar has written numerous books, including How to Teach a New Dog Old Tricks and The Good Little Dog Book. He has also hosted several award-winning videotapes on puppy and dog training.
Ian Dunbar | Speaker | TED.com