EG 2007
Ian Dunbar: Dog-friendly dog training
Ian Dunbar o prijateljskom dresiranju pasa
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Govoreći na EG konferenciji 2007., Ian Dunbar od nas traži da vidimo svijet kroz oči našeg voljenog psa. Spoznajući perspektivu našeg ljubimca, možemo izgraditi njihovu ljubav i povjerenje. To je poruka koja odjekuje dobrano van životinjskog svijeta.
Ian Dunbar - Animal behaviorist
Veterinarian, dog trainer and animal behaviorist Ian Dunbar understands our pets' point of view. By training dog owners in proper conduct (as much as he trains the dogs themselves), he hopes to encourage better relationships with dogs -- not to mention their friends and children, too. Full bio
Veterinarian, dog trainer and animal behaviorist Ian Dunbar understands our pets' point of view. By training dog owners in proper conduct (as much as he trains the dogs themselves), he hopes to encourage better relationships with dogs -- not to mention their friends and children, too. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
Dogs have interests.
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Psi imaju interese.
00:18
They have interest sniffing each other, chasing squirrels.
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Interesira ih međusobno njuškanje, lov na vjeverice.
00:24
And if we don't make that a reward in training, that will be a distraction.
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I ako to ne pretvorimo u nagradu u dresuri, onda će to odvlačiti pažnju.
00:29
It's always sort of struck me as really a scary thought
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Uvijek sam smatrao da je pomalo strašno
00:34
that if you see a dog in a park, and the owner is calling it,
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ako vidite psa u parku, i vlasnik ga zove,
00:38
and the owner says, you know, "Puppy, come here, come here,"
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i, znate, vlasnik govori: "Dođi amo, mali, dođi amo",
00:41
and the dog thinks, "Hmm, interesting.
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i pas misli: "Hm, zanimljivo.
00:44
I'm sniffing this other dog's rear end, the owner's calling."
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Njuškam stražnjicu drugog psa, vlasnik zove."
00:48
It's a difficult choice, right?
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Težak izbor, zar ne?
00:50
Rear end, owner. Rear end wins.
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Stražnjica, vlasnik. Stražnjica pobjeđuje.
00:52
I mean, you lose.
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Mislim, vi gubite.
00:54
You cannot compete with the environment,
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Ne možete se natjecati s okolišem,
00:57
if you have an adolescent dog's brain.
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ako imate mozak psa adolescenta.
00:59
So, when we train, we're always trying to take into account
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Tako, kad dresiramo, uvijek pokušavamo uzeti u obzir
01:03
the dog's point of view.
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pseći pogled na stvari.
01:05
Now, I'm here largely because
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Sad, tu sam uglavnom zato
01:07
there's kind of a rift in dog training at the moment
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što postoji vrsta rascjepa u dresuri
01:10
that -- on one side, we have people who think that you train a dog,
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koja - s jedne strane su ljudi koji misle da dresirate psa,
01:14
number one, by making up rules, human rules.
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pod broj jedan, stvarajući pravila, ljudska pravila.
01:18
We don't take the dog's point of view into account.
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Ne uzimamo pseći pogled na stvari u obzir.
01:20
So the human says, "You're going to act this way, damn it.
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Pa onda ljudi kažu: "Ponašat ćeš se ovako, kvragu.
01:23
We're going to force you to act against your will, to bend to our will."
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Natjerat ćemo te da se pokoriš našoj volji, protiv svoje volje."
01:27
Then, number two, we keep these rules a secret from the dog.
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Onda, broj dva, ova pravila tajimo pred psom.
01:30
And then number three, now we can punish the dog
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I broj tri, sad možemo kazniti psa
01:33
for breaking rules he didn't even know existed.
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što krši pravila za koja nije ni znao da postoje.
01:36
So you get a little puppy, he comes. His only crime is he grew.
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Tako imate štene, evo ga. Jedini zločin mu je što je narastao.
01:40
When he was a little puppy, he puts his paws on your leg --
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Kad je bio maleno štene, stavio bi šapu na vašu nogu -
01:43
you know, isn't that nice?
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znate, zar to nije lijepo?
01:45
And you go, "Oh, there's a good boy."
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A vi biste rekli: "Ooo, dobar dečko."
01:47
You bend down, you pat him -- you reward him for jumping up.
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Sagnuli biste se, potapšali ga - nagradili ga što skače.
01:51
His one mistake is he's a Tibetan mastiff, and a few months later,
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Njegova jedina pogreška je to što je tibetanski mastif, i par mjeseci kasnije,
01:55
he weighs, you know, 80 pounds.
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težak je, znate, 40 kg.
01:58
Every time he jumps up, he gets all sorts of abuse.
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Svaki put kad skoči, zlostavlja ga se na sve načine.
02:01
I mean, it is really very, very scary the abuse that dogs get.
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Mislim, to zlostavljanje je zaista vrlo, vrlo strašno.
02:06
So, this whole dominance issue -- number one,
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Tako, cijeli ovaj problem dominacije - pod broj jedan,
02:10
what we get in dog training is this Mickey-Mouse interpretation
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ono što u dresuri dobijemo je Mickey-Mouse-interpretacija
02:13
of a very complicated social system.
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veoma složenog društvenog sustava.
02:16
And they take this stuff seriously.
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I oni to ozbiljno shvaćaju.
02:18
Male dogs are very serious about a hierarchy,
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Mužjaci su jako ozbiljni u vezi hijerarhije,
02:20
because it prevents physical fights.
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zato što to sprečava fizičke borbe.
02:23
Of course, female dogs, bitches, on the other hand,
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Naravno, ženke, kuje, s druge strane,
02:26
have several bitch amendments to male hierarchical rule.
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imaju nekoliko ženskih dodataka pravilu muške hijerarhije.
02:29
The number one is, "I have it, you don't."
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Prvo je: "Ja to imam, ti ne."
02:31
And what you will find is a very, very low-ranking bitch
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I ono što vidite je da će jako nisko pozicionirana kuja
02:35
will quite easily keep a bone away from a high-ranking male.
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prilično lako zadržati kost od visoko rangiranog mužjaka.
02:39
So, we get in dog training this notion of dominances,
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Tako, u dresuri imamo ovaj vid dominacije,
02:42
or of the alpha dog. I'm sure that you've heard this.
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ili alfa psa. Siguran sam da ste čuli za to.
02:45
Dogs get so abused.
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Pse se često zlostavlja.
02:47
Dogs, horses and humans --
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Psi, konji i ljudi -
02:49
these are the three species which are so abused in life.
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ovo su tri vrste koje se u životu mnogo zlostavlja.
02:52
And the reason is built into their behavior --
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A razlog je ugrađen u njihovo ponašanje -
02:54
is to always come back and apologize.
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da se uvijek vrate i ispričaju.
02:57
Like, "Oh, I'm sorry you had to beat me. I'm really sorry, yes, it's my fault."
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Kao: "O, žao mi je što si me morao pretući. Stvarno mi je jako žao, da, ja sam kriv."
03:00
They are just so beatable,
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Jednostavno se daju tako lako istući,
03:02
and that's why they get beaten.
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i zbog toga i budu pretučeni.
03:04
The poor puppy jumps up, you open the dog book, what does it say?
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Jadno štene skoči, vi otvorite knjigu za pse, što kaže?
03:09
"Hold his front paws, squeeze his front paws,
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"Držite mu prednje šape, stisnite ih,
03:11
stamp on his hind feet, squirt him in the face with lemon juice,
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ugazite ga po stražnjim nogama, štrcajte mu sok limuna u lice,
03:15
hit him on the head with a rolled-up newspaper,
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udarite ga po glavi smotanim novinama,
03:17
knee him in the chest, flip him over backwards."
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udarite ga koljenom u prsa, prevrnite ga na leđa."
03:19
Because he grew?
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Zato što je narastao?
03:21
And because he's performing a behavior you've trained him to do?
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I zato što ponavlja ono što ste ga naučili da čini?
03:24
This is insanity.
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To je ludost.
03:27
I ask owners, "Well, how would you like the dog to greet you?"
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Pitam vlasnike: "Pa, kako biste htjeli da vas pas pozdravi?"
03:30
And people say, "Well, I don't know, to sit, I guess."
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I ljudi kažu: "Pa, ne znam, neka sjedne, valjda."
03:33
I said, "Let's teach him to sit."
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Kažem: "Naučimo ga neka sjedne."
03:35
And then we give him a reason for sitting.
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I onda mu damo razlog da sjedi.
03:39
Because the first stage
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Zato što je prvi stupanj
03:42
is basically teaching a dog ESL.
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u osnovi učenje psa engleskog kao drugog jezika.
03:45
I could speak to you and say, "Laytay-chai, paisey, paisey."
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Mogao bih vam reći: "Laytay-chai, paisey, paisey."
03:50
Go on, something should happen now.
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Hajmo, nešto bi se sad trebalo dogoditi.
03:52
Why aren't you responding? Oh, you don't speak Swahili.
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Zašto ne odgovarate? Aha, ne govorite Svahili.
03:55
Well, I've got news for you.
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Pa, imam vijesti za vas.
03:57
The dog doesn't speak English, or American, or Spanish, or French.
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Pas ne govori engleski, američki, španjolski, francuski.
04:02
So the first stage in training is to teach the dog ESL,
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Tako da je prvi stupanj u dresuri učenje psa engleskoga kao drugog jezika.
04:05
English as a second language.
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Engleski kao drugi jezik.
04:07
And that's how we use the food lure in the hand,
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I tako koristimo hranu kao mamac u ruci,
04:09
and we use food because we're dealing with owners.
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i koristimo hranu zato što radimo s vlasnicima.
04:12
My wife doesn't need food -- she's a great trainer,
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Moja žena ne treba hranu, ona je odličan dreser,
04:14
much better than I am.
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mnogo bolja od mene.
04:15
I don't need food, but the average owner says,
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Ja ne trebam hranu, ali običan vlasnik kaže:
04:18
"Puppy, sit."
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"Štene, sjedni."
04:20
Or they go, "Sit, sit, sit."
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Ili ovako: "Sjedni, sjedni, sjedni."
04:22
They're making a hand signal in front of the dog's rectum for some reason,
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Rukom prave signal ispred psećeg rektuma zbog nekog razloga,
04:25
like the dog has a third eye there -- it's insane.
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kao da pas tamo ima treće oko - to je suludo.
04:28
You know, "Sit, sit."
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Znate: "Sjedni, sjedni."
04:30
No, we go, "Puppy, sit" -- boom, it's got it in six to 10 trials.
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Sad, mi radimo ovako: "Štene, sjedni," - i bum, uspije u 6 od 10 pokušaja.
04:34
Then we phase out the food as a lure,
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Onda uklonimo hranu kao mamac,
04:36
and now the dog knows that "sit" means sit,
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i sad pas zna da "sjedni" znači sjedni,
04:38
and you can actually communicate to a dog
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i stvarno možete komunicirati sa psom
04:40
in a perfectly constructed English sentence.
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u savršeno složenoj engleskoj rečenici.
04:42
"Phoenix, come here, take this, and go to Jamie, please."
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"Phoenix, dođi, uzmi ovo, idi Jamieju, molim te."
04:46
And I've taught her "Phoenix," "come here," "take this," "go to"
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I naučio sam je "Phoenix", "dođi", "uzmi ovo", "idi",
04:49
and the name of my son, "Jamie."
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i ime svog sina, "Jamie."
04:51
And the dog can take a note,
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I pas može uzeti poruku,
04:53
and I've got my own little search-and-rescue dog.
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i imam svog vlastitog psa tragača-spasitelja.
04:55
He'll find Jamie wherever he is, you know,
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Naći će Jamieja gdje god bio, znate,
04:57
wherever kids are, crushing rocks by a stream or something,
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gdje god djeca bila, lomeći stijene na potoku ili nešto,
04:59
and take him a little message that says,
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i odnijeti mu malu poruku u kojoj stoji:
05:01
"Hey, dinner's ready. Come in for dinner."
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"Hej, večera je spremna. Dođi jesti."
05:04
So, at this point, the dog knows what we want it to do.
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Tako, na ovom stupnju, pas zna što želimo da radi.
05:07
Will it do it?
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Hoće li to napraviti?
05:09
Not necessarily, no.
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Ne nužno, ne.
05:11
As I said, if he's in the park and there's a rear end to sniff,
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Kao što sam rekao, ako je u parku i može ponjuškati neku stražnjicu,
05:14
why come to the owner?
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zašto bi došao vlasniku?
05:16
The dog lives with you, the dog can get you any time.
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Pas živi s vama, može do vas bilo kad.
05:19
The dog can sniff your butt, if you like, when he wants to.
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Pas može ponjušiti vašu guzu, ako to želite, kad god on želi.
05:22
At the moment, he's in the park, and you are competing
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U ovom trenu, u parku je, i natječete se
05:24
with smells, and other dogs, and squirrels.
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s mirisima, drugim psima, i vjevericama.
05:27
So the second stage in training is to teach the dog to want to do
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Tako da je drugi stupanj u dresuri naučiti psa da želi
05:31
what we want him to do, and this is very easy.
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ono što mi želimo da napravi, a to je veoma lako.
05:34
We use the Premack principle.
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Koristimo Premackovo načelo.
05:36
Basically, we follow a low-frequency behavior --
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U osnovi, pratimo ponašanje niske frekvencije -
05:38
one the dog doesn't want to do --
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ono koje pas ne želi činiti -
05:40
by a high-frequency behavior, commonly known as a behavior problem,
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ponašanjem visoke frekvencije, opće poznate kao problem u ponašanju,
05:44
or a dog hobby -- something the dog does like to do.
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ili pseći hobi - nešto što pas voli činiti.
05:48
That will then become a reward for the lower-frequency behavior.
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To će onda postati nagrada za ponašanje niske frekvencije.
05:51
So we go, "sit," on the couch; "sit," tummy-rub; "sit,"
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Tako idemo, "sjedni" na kauč; "sjedni", češkanje trbuha; "sjedni",
05:55
look, I throw a tennis ball; "sit," say hello to that other dog.
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gledaj, bacam tenisku lopticu; "sjedni", pozdravi onog drugog psa.
05:59
Yes, we put "sniff butt" on queue.
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Da, na red dođe i "njuškanje guze".
06:01
"Sit," sniff butt.
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"Sjedni", njuškanje guze.
06:03
So now all of these distractions that worked against training
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Tako sad sve što je odvlačilo pažnju od dresure
06:07
now become rewards that work for training.
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postaje nagrada koja radi za dresuru.
06:10
And what we're doing, in essence, is we're teaching the dog, kind of like --
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I ono što činimo, u biti je da psa učimo, nekako -
06:15
we're letting the dog think that the dog is training us.
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puštamo psa da misli da on dresira nas.
06:18
And I can imagine this dog, you know,
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Mogu zamisliti tog psa, znate,
06:20
speaking through the fence to, say, an Akita,
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kako govori kroz ogradu, recimo, Akiti,
06:22
saying, "Wow, my owners, they are so incredibly easy to train.
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govori: "Opa, moje vlasnike je nevjerojatno lako izdresirati.
06:26
They're like Golden Retrievers.
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Kao da su zlatni retriveri.
06:28
All I have to do is sit, and they do everything.
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Sve što moram je sjesti, i napravit će bilo što.
06:30
They open doors, they drive my car, they massage me,
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Otvaraju vrata, voze moj auto, masiraju me,
06:34
they will throw tennis balls,
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bacaju mi tenisku lopticu,
06:36
they will cook for me and serve the food.
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kuhaju mi i serviraju hranu.
06:38
It's like, if I just sit, that's my command.
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Kao da, ako samo sjednem, to je moja zapovijed.
06:41
Then I have my own personal doorman,
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Onda imam vlastitog vratara,
06:43
chauffeur, masseuse, chef and waiter."
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šofera, masera, kuhara i konobara."
06:47
And now the dog's really happy.
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I sad je pas stvarno sretan.
06:49
And this, to me, is always what training is.
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I ovo je ono što je meni dresura uvijek bila.
06:51
So we really motivate the dog to want to do it,
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Tako stvarno motiviramo psa da to želi činiti,
06:54
such that the need for punishment seldom comes up.
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tako da se potreba za kaznom rijetko pojavi.
06:59
Now we move to phase three, when now --
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Sad prelazimo na stupanj tri, kad sad -
07:02
there's times, you know, when daddy knows best.
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ima prilika, znate, kad tata zna najbolje.
07:04
And I have a little sign on my fridge, and it says,
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I imam maleni znak na frižideru, i piše,
07:07
"Because I'm the daddy, that's why."
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"Zato što sam ja tata, eto zašto."
07:09
Sorry, no more explanation. "I'm the daddy, you're not. Sit."
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Oprosti, nema daljnjih objašnjenja. "Ja sam tata, ti nisi. Sjedni."
07:13
And there's times, for example,
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I ima prilika, na primjer,
07:15
if my son's friends leave the door open,
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ako prijatelj mog sina ostavi otvorena vrata,
07:18
the dogs have to know you don't step across this line.
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psi moraju znati da ne prelaze preko te linije.
07:22
This is a life-or-death thing.
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To je pitanje života i smrti.
07:24
You leave this, the sanctity of your house,
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Ostavite li ovo, svetost svoje kuće,
07:27
and you could be hit on the street.
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netko vas može udariti na ulici.
07:29
So some things we have to let the dog know,
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Tako da psima moramo neke stvari dati do znanja,
07:31
"You mustn't do this."
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"Ovo ne smiješ činiti."
07:33
And so we have to enforce, but without force.
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I moramo ih prisiliti, bez upotrebe sile.
07:38
People here get very confused about what a punishment is.
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Ljudi su često zbunjeni time što je kazna.
07:42
They think a punishment is something nasty.
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Misle da je kazna nešto grozno.
07:44
I bet a lot of you do, right?
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Kladim se vas mnogo to misli, je l' da?
07:46
You think it's something painful, or scary, or nasty.
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Mislite da je to nešto bolno, nešto strašno, grozno.
07:49
It doesn't have to be.
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Ne mora biti.
07:51
There's several definitions of what a punishment is,
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Postoji nekoliko definicija toga što je kazna,
07:54
but one definition, the most popular, is:
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ali jedna definicija, najpopularnija, je:
07:56
a punishment is a stimulus that reduces the immediately preceding behavior,
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kazna je poticaj koji smanjuje ponašanje koje je upravo prethodilo,
08:01
such that it's less likely to occur in the future.
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tako da se ono rjeđe pojavljuje u budućnosti.
08:05
It does not have to be nasty, scary or painful.
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Ne mora biti grozno, strašno ni bolno.
08:10
And I would say, if it doesn't have to be, then maybe it shouldn't be.
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I rekao bih, ako ne mora biti, možda ne bi smjelo biti.
08:15
I was working with a very dangerous dog about a year ago.
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Radio sam s jako opasnim psom pred nekih godinu dana.
08:18
And this was a dog that put both his owners in hospital,
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Ovo je bio pas koji je oboje vlasnika smjestio u bolnicu,
08:21
plus the brother-in-law, plus the child.
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plus šogora, plus dijete.
08:23
And I only agreed to work with it if they promised it would stay in their house,
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I jedino sam se složio raditi s njim ako obećaju da će ostati s njima u kući,
08:26
and they never took it outside.
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da ga nikad neće izvesti van.
08:28
The dog is actually euthanized now,
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Pas je u stvari sad eutanaziran,
08:30
but this was a dog I worked with for a while.
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ali s tim psom sam radio neko vrijeme.
08:32
A lot of the aggression happened around the kitchen,
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Mnogo agresije se događalo oko kuhinje,
08:35
so while I was there -- this was on the fourth visit --
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tako da dok sam bio tamo - ovo je bio četvrti posjet -
08:38
we did a four and a half hour down-stay, with the dog on his mat.
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četiri i pol sata smo radili ostani dolje, sa psom na svom prostiraču.
08:41
And he was kept there by the owner's calm insistence.
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I tamo smo ga zadržavali vlasnikovom mirnom upornošću.
08:46
When the dog would try to leave the mat,
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Kad bi pas pokušao napustiti prostirač,
08:48
she would say, "Rover, on the mat, on the mat, on the mat."
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rekla bi: "Rover, na prostirač, na prostirač, na prostirač."
08:52
The dog broke his down-stay 22 times in four and a half hours, while she cooked dinner,
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Pas je to pokušao prekinuti 22 puta u četiri i pol sata, dok je kuhala večeru,
08:57
because we had a lot of aggression related towards food.
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zato što je mnogo agresije bilo usmjereno ka hrani.
09:01
The breaks got fewer and fewer.
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Prekidi su bivali rjeđi i rjeđi.
09:03
You see, the punishment was working.
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Vidite, kazna je djelovala.
09:06
The behavior problem was going away.
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Problem u ponašanju je nestajao.
09:08
She never raised her voice.
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Nikad nije podigla glas.
09:10
If she did, she would have got bitten.
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Da jest, ugrizao bi ju.
09:13
It's not a good dog you shout at.
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Ne vičete na dobrog psa.
09:15
And a lot of my friends train really neat animals,
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I mnogo mojih prijatelja dresira stvarno cool životinje,
09:18
grizzly bears -- if you've ever seen a grizzly bear
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grizlije - ako ste ikad vidjeli grizlija
09:20
on the telly or in film, then it's a friend of mine who's trained it --
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na TV-u ili filmu, onda ga je dresirao moj prijatelj -
09:23
killer whales. I love it because it wires you up.
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kitove orke. Volim ih jer se vežu za vas.
09:26
How are you going to reprimand a grizzly bear?
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Kako da ukorite grizlija?
09:28
"Bad bear, bad bear!" Voom!
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"Zločesti medo, zločesti medo!" Bum!
09:30
Your head now is 100 yards away, sailing through the air, OK?
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Glava vam je 100 metara dalje, leti zrakom, OK?
09:35
This is crazy.
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To je ludo.
09:37
So, where do we go from here?
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Pa, odakle tu polazimo?
09:39
We want a better way.
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Želimo bolji način.
09:41
Dogs deserve better.
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Psi zaslužuju bolje.
09:43
But for me, the reason for this actually has to do with dogs.
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Ali za mene, razlog za to zapravo ima veze sa psima.
09:47
It has to do with watching people train puppies,
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Ima veze sa gledanjem ljudi kako dresiraju štenad,
09:50
and realizing they have horrendous interaction skills,
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i sa shvaćanjem da imaju strašne vještine interakcije,
09:55
horrendous relationship skills.
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strašne vještine povezivanja.
09:57
Not just with their puppy, but with the rest of the family at class.
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Ne samo sa svojim štencima, nego i s ostatkom obitelji.
10:01
I mean, my all-time classic is another "come here" one.
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Mislim, moj svevremeni klasik je još jedan "dođi ovamo".
10:04
You see someone in the park -- and I'll cover my mic when I say this,
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Vidite nekog u parku, pokrit ću mikrofon kad to kažem,
10:07
because I don't want to wake you up -- and there's the owner in the park,
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jer vas ne želim probuditi, i tu je vlasnik u parku,
10:10
and their dog's over here, and they say, "Rover, come here.
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i njihov pas je tamo, i kažu: "Rover, dođi.
10:12
Rover, come here. Rover, come here, you son of a bitch."
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Rover, dođi. Rover, dođi ovamo, kučkin sine."
10:16
The dog says, "I don't think so."
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Pas kaže: "Ne bih rekao."
10:18
(Laughter)
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(smijeh)
10:19
I mean, who in their right mind
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Mislim, tko bi pri zdravoj pameti
10:22
would think that a dog would want to approach them
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mislio da bi mu pas htio doći
10:25
when they're screaming like that?
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kad tako viče?
10:27
Instead, the dog says, "I know that tone. I know that tone.
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Umjesto toga, pas kaže: "Znam taj ton. Znam taj ton.
10:30
Previously, when I've approached, I've gotten punished there."
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Prije, kad bih mu prišao, odmah bih bio kažnjen."
10:33
I was walking onto a plane --
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Išao sam na avion -
10:35
this, for me, was a pivotal moment in my career,
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ovo je za mene prijelomni trenutak u mojoj karijeri,
10:38
and it really cemented what I wanted to do
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i stvarno je zacementirao ono što sam htio učiniti
10:40
with this whole puppy-training thing,
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s cijelim ovim problemom dresure štenaca,
10:42
the notion of how to teach puppies in a dog-friendly way
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načina učenja štenaca na prijateljski način
10:46
to want to do what we want to do, so we don't have to force them.
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da žele činiti ono što mi želimo da čine, tako da ih ne moramo siliti.
10:49
You know, I puppy-train my child.
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Znate, dresiram svoje dijete kao štene.
10:52
And the seminal moment was, I was getting on a plane in Dallas,
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I ključan trenutak je bio, išao sam avionom za Dallas,
10:55
and in row two was a father, I presume, and a young boy about five,
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i u drugom redu je bio otac, pretpostavljam, i dječak od pet godina,
10:59
kicking the back of the chair.
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koji je udarao stražnji dio sjedala.
11:01
"Johnny, don't do that."
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"Johnny, ne čini to."
11:03
Kick, kick, kick.
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Udarac, udarac, udarac.
11:04
"Johnny, don't do that." Kick, kick, kick.
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"Johnny, ne čini to". Udarac, udarac, udarac.
11:06
I'm standing right here with my bag.
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Stojim tamo sa svojom torbom.
11:08
The father leans over, grabs him like this and gives him ugly face.
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Otac se nagne, zgrabi ga ovako i napravi ružnu grimasu.
11:12
And ugly face is this --
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A ružna grimasa je ovakva -
11:14
when you go face-to-face with a puppy or a child,
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kad ste licem u lice sa štenetom ili djetetom,
11:17
you say, "What are you doing! Now stop it, stop it, stop it!"
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kažete: "Što to činiš? Sad prestani, prestani, prestani!"
11:20
And I went, "Oh my God, do I do something?"
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I pomislio sam: "O Bože, trebam li što učiniti?"
11:23
That child has lost everything --
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To dijete je izgubilo sve -
11:26
that one of the two people he can trust in this world
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jedno od dvoje ljudi kojima u cijelom svijetu može vjerovati
11:29
has absolutely pulled the rug from under his feet.
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je očito izvuklo tepih pod njegovim nogama.
11:32
And I thought, "Do I tell this jerk to quit it?"
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I mislio sam: "Da li da kažem ovom kretenu da prestane?"
11:34
I thought, "Ian, stay out of it, stay out of it, you know, walk on."
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Mislio sam: "Ian, drži se podalje, drži se podalje, znaš, nastavi hodati."
11:37
I walked to the back of the plane,
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Otišao sam do stražnjeg dijela aviona,
11:39
I sat down, and a thought came to me.
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sjeo sam, i misao mi je došla.
11:42
If that had been a dog, I would have laid him out.
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Da je to bio pas, opalio bih tipa.
11:44
(Laughter)
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(smijeh)
11:45
If he had kicked a dog, I would have punched him out.
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Da je udario psa, opalio bih ga.
11:49
He kicked a child, grabs the child like this and I let it go.
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Udario je dijete, tako je zgrabio dijete i nisam ništa učinio.
11:54
And this is what it's all about.
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I u tome je bila stvar.
11:57
These relationship skills are so easy.
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Vještine povezivanja su tako lake.
11:59
I mean, we as humans, our shallowness when we choose a life-mate
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Mislim, mi kao ljudi, naša plitkost kad biramo životnog partnera
12:04
based on the three Cs -- coat color, conformation, cuteness.
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se temelji na tri stvari - boja kaputa, građa, lijep izgled.
12:08
You know, kind of like a little robot.
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Znate, pomalo kao mali robot.
12:10
This is how we go into a relationship, and it's hunky-dory for a year.
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Tako uletimo u vezu, i onda se topimo godinu dana.
12:13
And then, a little behavior problem comes up.
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A onda, iskrsne neki problem u ponašanju.
12:15
No different from the dog barking.
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Ništa drukčije od psa koji laje.
12:17
The husband won't clear up his clothes,
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Muž neće složiti svoju odjeću,
12:19
or the wife's always late for meetings, whatever it is, OK?
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ili žena uvijek kasni na sastanke, što god bilo, OK?
12:23
And it then starts, and we get into this thing,
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I onda sve započne, i upadnemo u tu rutinu,
12:27
and our personal feedback -- there's two things about it.
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i naša povratna informacija - dvije stvari postoje u vezi nje.
12:29
When you watch people interacting with animals or other people,
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Kad gledate ljude kako komuniciraju sa životinjama ili drugim ljudima,
12:32
there is very little feedback, it's too infrequent.
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premalo je povratne informacije, prerijetko se javlja.
12:36
And when it happens, it's bad, it's nasty.
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I kad se dogodi, loša je, grozna.
12:39
You see it's especially in families, especially with spouses,
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To osobito vidite u obiteljima, posebno kod supružnika,
12:44
especially with children, especially with parents.
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posebno kod djece, posebno kod roditelja.
12:47
You see it especially in the workplace,
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Posebno to vidite na poslu,
12:49
especially from boss to employee.
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posebno između šefa i zaposlenika.
12:51
It's as if there's some schadenfreude there,
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Kao da netko uživa u tuđoj muci,
12:54
that we actually take delight in people getting things wrong,
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kao da stvarno uživamo kad ljudi nešto krivo shvate,
12:57
so that we can then moan and groan and bitch at them.
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tako da možemo gunđati i prigovarati i iskaljivati se na njima.
13:02
And this, I would say, is the biggest human foible that we have.
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I ovo je, rekao bih, najveća ljudska slabost koju imamo.
13:06
It really is.
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Stvarno jest.
13:08
We take the good for granted, and we moan and groan at the bad.
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Uzimamo dobro zdravo za gotovo, i gunđamo i prigovaramo za loše.
13:11
And I think this whole notion of these skills should be taught.
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I mislim da bi se cijeli pogled na ove vještine trebao poučavati.
13:14
You know, calculus is wonderful.
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Znate, matematika je krasna.
13:16
When I was a kid, I was a calculus whiz.
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Kad sam ja bio dijete, bio sam genij za matematiku.
13:18
I don't understand a thing about it now, but I could do it as a kid.
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Ne razumijem u čemu je stvar sada, ali mogao sam to kao dijete.
13:22
Geometry, fantastic. You know, quantum mechanics --
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Geometrija, fantastično. Znate, kvantna mehanika -
13:25
these are cool things.
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to su cool stvari,
13:27
But they don't save marriages and they don't raise children.
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Ali one ne spašavaju brakove i ne odgajaju djecu.
13:31
And my look to the future is,
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I moj pogled na budućnost je,
13:33
and what I want to do with this doggy stuff, is to teach people
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ono što želim učiniti s ovim psećim stvarima je naučiti ljude
13:36
that you know, your husband's just as easy to train.
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da znate, vašeg muža je jednako lako dresirati.
13:39
Probably easier -- if you got a Rottie -- much easier to train.
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Vjerojatno lakše, ako imate rotvajlera, mnogo lakše dresirati.
13:44
Your kids are easy to train.
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Vašu djecu je lako dresirati.
13:46
All you've got to do is to watch them,
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Sve što morate je promatrati ih,
13:48
to time-sample the behavior, and say, every five minutes,
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uzeti vremenski uzorak njihova ponašanja, i recimo, svakih pet minuta,
13:50
you ask the question, "Is it good, or is it bad?"
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postavite si pitanje: "Je li to dobro, je li to loše?"
13:53
If it's good, say, "That was really neat, thank you."
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Ako je dobro, kažete: "To je bilo baš super, hvala."
13:56
That is such a powerful training technique.
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To je tako moćna tehnika dresiranja.
13:58
This should be taught in schools.
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To bi se trebalo učiti u školama.
14:00
Relationships -- how do you negotiate?
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Veze - kako pregovarate?
14:02
How you do negotiate with your friend who wants your toy?
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Kako pregovarate s prijateljem koji želi vašu igračku?
14:05
You know, how to prepare you for your first relationship?
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Znate, kako se pripremiti za prvu vezu?
14:08
How on earth about raising children?
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Kako pobogu za odgajanje djece?
14:10
We think how we do it -- one night in bed, we're pregnant,
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Mislimo o tome kako to činimo - jedna noć u krevetu, trudni smo,
14:12
and then we're raising the most important thing in life, a child.
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i onda odgajamo najvažniju stvar u životu, dijete.
14:15
No, this is what should be taught -- the good living, the good habits,
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Ne, ovo bi se trebalo učiti - dobar život, dobre navike,
14:20
which are just as hard to break as bad habits.
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koje je jednako teško slomiti kao i loše.
14:24
So, that would be my wish to the future.
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Tako, to bi bila moja želja za budućnost.
14:26
Ah, damn, I wanted to end exactly on time,
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O, kvragu, htio sam završiti točno na vrijeme,
14:28
but I got eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two --
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ali imam osam, sedam, šest, pet, četiri, tri, dva -
14:34
so thank you very much. That's my talk, thank you.
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Mnogo vam hvala. Ovo je bio moj govor, hvala.
14:36
(Applause)
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(pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Ian Dunbar - Animal behavioristVeterinarian, dog trainer and animal behaviorist Ian Dunbar understands our pets' point of view. By training dog owners in proper conduct (as much as he trains the dogs themselves), he hopes to encourage better relationships with dogs -- not to mention their friends and children, too.
Why you should listen
We may call dogs man's best friend, but according to Dr. Ian Dunbar, humans often fail to reciprocate. Dunbar's decades of research on hierarchical social behavior and aggression in domestic animals truly give him a dog's-eye view of human beings' incomprehensible and spontaneous -- if involuntary -- cruelties.
Dunbar says we might break our unseemly, unflattering habits and usher in an "era of dog-friendly dog training" by coming to understand why dogs do what they do -- Is Fido misbehaving, or just being a dog? -- and the repercussions of our actions toward them. (We might foster better relationships with our fellow humans, too.) His Sirius Dog Training company focuses on training puppies to be playful, yet well-behaved. His second organization, Animalin, promotes games for dogs and puppies at an international level.
Dunbar has written numerous books, including How to Teach a New Dog Old Tricks and The Good Little Dog Book. He has also hosted several award-winning videotapes on puppy and dog training.
Ian Dunbar | Speaker | TED.com