TED1998
Milton Glaser: Using design to make ideas new
米尔顿•格拉塞 ——设计里出新思路
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TED档案：传奇设计师米尔顿•格拉塞受到皮耶罗•德拉•弗朗西斯的启发，潜心钻研于一种新型的绘画艺术。在这里，他将想法分解而维新得到灵感，从而创造出令人折服的海报作品。
Milton Glaser - Graphic designer
If his career began and ended with "I [heart] N Y," Milton Glaser would still be a legend. But over his multi-decade career, his body of work is sprinkled with similarly iconic images and logos. Full bio
If his career began and ended with "I [heart] N Y," Milton Glaser would still be a legend. But over his multi-decade career, his body of work is sprinkled with similarly iconic images and logos. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:18
'Theme and variations' is one of those forms that
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主题和变体是一种
00:21
require a certain kind of intellectual activity,
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需要特定智力活动参与的形式。
00:26
because you are always comparing the variation
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因为你总是在把变体和
00:29
with the theme that you hold in your mind.
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已经存在于你脑海中的主题作比较。
00:32
You might say that the theme is nature
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你也许会说主题是自然
00:36
and everything that follows is a variation on the subject.
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与它相关的一切是这一主题的变体。
00:46
I was asked, I guess about six years ago,
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我想大概是6年前，我被邀请
00:54
to do a series of paintings
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创作一系列某种程度上是为
00:59
that in some way would celebrate the birth of Piero della Francesca.
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皮耶罗•德拉•弗朗切斯卡庆生的绘画。
01:06
And it was very difficult for me to imagine
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我很难想象
01:10
how to paint pictures that were based on Piero
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该如何基于皮耶罗来做画
01:19
until I realized that I could look at Piero as nature --
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后来我意识到我可以把他作为自然来看待。
01:26
that I would have the same attitude towards looking at Piero della Francesca
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也就是说我在欣赏皮耶罗·德拉·弗朗切斯卡时
01:33
as I would if I were looking out a window at a tree.
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就如同观赏窗外一棵普通的大树一般。
01:36
And that was enormously liberating to me.
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这极大的解放了我，
01:39
Perhaps it's not a very insightful observation,
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也许那并不是一种很透彻的观察，
01:43
but that really started me on a path to be able to do a kind of theme and variations
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但是它真正地让我开始能够创造一些主题和变体。
01:49
based on a work by Piero,
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根据皮耶罗的一幅作品，
01:53
in this case that remarkable painting that's in the Uffizi, "The Duke of Montefeltro,"
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这里所说的是在乌菲兹的伟大画作——《蒙特菲尔特罗公爵》，
02:00
who faces his consort, Battista.
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画中的他正面朝着他的夫人巴蒂斯塔。
02:05
Once I realized that I could take some liberties with the subject,
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自从我意识到自己可以顺心所欲的围绕这一主题创造时，
02:09
I did the following series of drawings.
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我完成了以下一系列的图画。
02:13
That's the real Piero della Francesca --
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这是真实的皮耶罗•德拉•弗朗切斯。
02:18
one of the greatest portraits in human history.
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它是人类历史上伟大的头像之一。
02:23
And these, I'll just show these without comment.
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这些我将不做任何评说。
02:27
It's just a series of variations on the head of the Duke of Montefeltro,
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它只是一系列的蒙特菲尔特罗公爵头像的变体，
02:33
who's a great, great figure in the Renaissance,
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蒙特菲尔特罗公爵在文艺复兴时期是一位很了不起的人物，
02:36
and probably the basis for Machiavelli's "The Prince."
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而且很可能是马基雅维利的作品《王子》的原型。
02:39
He apparently lost an eye in battle,
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他在战争中失去了一只眼睛，
02:42
which is why he is always shown in profile.
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这是为什么他总是以侧面示人。
02:45
And this is Battista.
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这是巴蒂斯塔。
02:50
And then I decided I could move them around a little bit --
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后来我想我可以稍微地把他们移动一下。
02:56
so that for the first time in history, they're facing the same direction.
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这样在历史上他们第一次面向了同一个方向。
02:59
Whoops! Passed each other.
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哎呀！他们错过了。
03:06
And then a visitor from another painting by Piero,
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这是来自皮耶罗另一幅画作的访客，
03:09
this is from "The Resurrection of Christ" --
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他来自“基督复活”，
03:12
as though the cast had just gotten of the set to have a chat.
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这样就好像他们要开始聊天。
03:17
And now, four large panels:
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现在是四大面板。
03:20
this is upper left;
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这是左上角部分。
03:22
upper right;
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右上角部分。
03:26
lower left;
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左下角部分。
03:29
lower right.
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右下角部分。
03:31
Incidentally, I've never understood the conflict between abstraction and naturalism.
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顺便提一句，我从未理解抽象主义与自然主义之间的冲突，
03:38
Since all paintings are inherently abstract to begin with
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因为所有的绘画本质上都是源于抽象
03:42
there doesn't seem to be an argument there.
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没有什么可争论的。
03:45
On another subject --
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又有一次，
03:48
(Laughter) --
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（笑声）
03:51
I was driving in the country one day with my wife,
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有一天我和妻子在乡下开着车，
03:55
and I saw this sign,
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我看到了一个标志，
03:57
and I said, "That is a fabulous piece of design."
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说：“那是不错的设计。”
04:00
And she said, "What are you talking about?"
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而她却问道：“你在说什么？”
04:03
I said, "Well, it's so persuasive,
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我说：“嗯，这很有说服力，
04:05
because the purpose of that sign is to get you into the garage,
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因为这个标志的目的就是要让你去车库，
04:10
and since most people are so suspicious of garages,
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而由于大部分人都是不放心车库这种地方，
04:15
and know that they're going to be ripped off,
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认为自己会被宰，
04:18
they use the word 'reliable.'
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所以他们用了“可靠的”这个词汇。
04:21
But everybody says they're reliable.
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但每个人都可以说他们很可靠。
04:23
But, reliable Dutchman" --
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但是，可靠的荷兰人~
04:26
(Laughter) --
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（笑声）
04:28
"Fantastic!"
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好极了！
04:30
Because as soon as you hear the word Dutchman --
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因为一旦你听到Dutchman这个词——
04:33
which is an archaic word, nobody calls Dutch people "Dutchmen" anymore --
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那是一个不再被用来称呼荷兰人的古老词汇——
04:36
but as soon as you hear Dutchman,
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当你听到这个词，
04:38
you get this picture of the kid with his finger in the dike,
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你会联想到有一个小孩将手指放在堤坝中
04:41
preventing the thing from falling and flooding Holland, and so on.
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为了防止堤坝脱落并淹没荷兰而之类的画面。
04:44
And so the entire issue is detoxified by the use of "Dutchman."
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因此整件事由于“Dutchman”的使用而更加清晰。
04:51
Now, if you think I'm exaggerating at all in this,
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如果你们现在认为我是在夸张的话，
04:54
all you have to do is substitute something else, like "Indonesian."
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可以试试将印度人之类的其它词语来代替荷兰人。
04:58
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
05:06
Or even "French."
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甚至可以是法国人。
05:09
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
05:14
Now, "Swiss" works, but you know it's going to cost a lot of money.
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当然瑞士人也行，但你知道那会花很多钱。
05:18
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
05:21
I'm going to take you quickly through the actual process of doing a poster.
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我将要带领你们快速地过一遍创作海报的真实过程。
05:27
I do a lot of work for the School of Visual Arts, where I teach,
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我为我所从教的视觉艺术学院做了很多工作，
05:30
and the director of this school -- a remarkable man named Silas Rhodes --
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一位非常出色的叫做西拉斯罗德的校长
05:33
often gives you a piece of text and he says, "Do something with this."
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经常给你一小段文字然后说：“用它做点什么吧。”
05:38
And so he did.
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他确实这么做了。
05:40
And this was the text -- "In words as fashion the same rule will hold/
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这就是那一小段文字——“就时尚来说存在着同样的道理/
05:43
Alike fantastic if too new or old/
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无论过于新颖或是陈旧都是同样出色的/
05:44
Be not the first by whom the new are tried/
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不要成为第一个尝试新颖的人/
05:48
Nor yet the last to lay the old aside."
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也不要成为最后抛弃陈旧的人。“
05:51
I could make nothing of that.
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我当时没有任何想法。
05:53
And I really struggled with this one.
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然后我确确实实很努力地去创作。
05:55
And the first thing I did, which was sort of in the absence of another idea,
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我做的第一幅作品，还缺乏些创意，
05:58
was say I'll sort of write it out and make some words big,
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可以看出我只是把它写出来并将一些词语加大而已，
06:01
and I'll have some kind of design on the back somehow,
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同时在背景做了点设计，
06:06
and I was hoping -- as one often does -- to stumble into something.
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我期望，正如人们经常希望的那样，能够碰巧创造出些什么。
06:09
So I took another crack at it --
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因此我又创作了另一幅，将它分裂了一些，
06:12
you've got to keep it moving --
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你必须继续努力。
06:14
and I Xeroxed some words on pieces of colored paper
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我在彩色纸上打印了几个字
06:16
and I pasted them down on an ugly board.
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把它们粘在一个丑陋的板子上
06:19
I thought that something would come out of it,
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我认为某种东西一定会浮现出来，
06:22
like "Words rule fantastic new old first last Pope"
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比如”词语 规则 奇妙的 新的 旧的 第一 最后 罗马教皇 “
06:25
because it's by Alexander Pope,
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因为这是亚历山大蒲柏写的，
06:28
but I sort of made a mess out of it,
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但是我将它搞得有些混乱了，
06:30
and then I thought I'd repeat it in some way so it was legible.
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后来我认为应该重新整理它，这样才能清晰。
06:32
So, it was going nowhere.
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因此，我陷入了僵局。
06:35
Sometimes, in the middle of a resistant problem,
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有时候在解决一个顽固的问题期间，
06:39
I write down things that I know about it.
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我会记录下我对它所了解的一起，
06:42
But you can see the beginning of an idea there,
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而你能够从中发现一些想法的开端，
06:44
because you can see the word "new" emerging from the "old."
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因为你会发现单词”new“从”old“中浮现出来，
06:47
That's what happens.
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这就是事实。
06:49
There's a relationship between the old and the new;
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在”old“和”new“之间存在某种关系，
06:52
the new emerges from the context of the old.
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”new“从”old“的包围中浮现出来。
06:54
And then I did some variations of it,
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后来我对它做了一些改变，
06:56
but it still wasn't coalescing graphically at all.
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但是它在图形上仍然有些不是衔接的很好。
07:00
I had this other version which had something interesting about it
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我另有一个比较有趣的版本，
07:03
in terms of being able to put it together in your mind from clues.
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它能够将所有提示汇聚到一起形成于你脑中。
07:09
The W was clearly a W, the N was clearly an N,
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这里的”W“显然是”W“，"N"显示是”N“
07:12
even though they were very fragmentary
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即使他们不是非常连续，
07:16
and there wasn't a lot of information in it.
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而且其中也并没有很多信息。
07:18
Then I got the words "new" and "old"
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这样我就大概设计出了单词”new“和”old“。
07:20
and now I had regressed back to a point where there seemed to be no return.
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现在我退回到了一个似乎不可返回的点上。
07:25
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
07:27
I was really desperate at this point.
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那时我相当绝望。
07:30
And so, I do something I'm truthfully ashamed of,
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所以我做了一些说实话确实很羞愧的事情，
07:34
which is that I took two drawings I had made for another purpose
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我找到了两幅另外创作的画作，
07:38
and I put them together.
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然后将它们放在了一起，
07:43
It says "dreams" at the top.
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在最上面写了”梦想“。
07:46
And I was going to do a thing, I say, "Well, change the copy.
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然后我将要做的是，我会说：”“那么，改变一下这个副本。
07:49
Let it say something about dreams, and come to SVA
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让它体现出梦想，来到视觉艺术学院
07:53
and you'll sort of fulfill your dreams."
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你将可能实现你的梦想。”
07:55
But, to my credit,
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但是值得赞扬的是，
07:57
I was so embarrassed about doing that
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我对此感到很不好意思
08:00
that I never submitted this sketch.
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因此我从来没有提交过这份草稿。
08:04
And, finally, I arrived at the following solution.
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最后我使用了以下的解决方案。
08:09
Now, it doesn't look terribly interesting,
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它看上不不是那么有意思，
08:13
but it does have something
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但是它拥有某种
08:16
that distinguishes it from a lot of other posters.
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与很多其它海报不同的东西。
08:22
For one thing, it transgresses the idea of what a poster's supposed to be,
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比如，它违背了海报本应该具有的特点，
08:26
which is to be understood and seen immediately, and not explained.
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就是应该直接地被看到和理解，而不需要解释。
08:34
I remember hearing all of you in the graphic arts --
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我记得在图形艺术上听到大家都说
08:37
"If you have to explain it, it ain't working."
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“如果你必须为此解释，则它没有任何效果。”
08:40
And one day I woke up and I said, "Well, suppose that's not true?"
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有一天我醒过来然后说：“如果那是错的呢？”
08:44
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
08:50
So here's what it says in my explanation at the bottom left.
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所以在左下角就是我的解释
08:55
It says, "Thoughts: This poem is impossible.
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上面是这样写的，“想法：这首诗是不可能的。
09:01
Silas usually has a better touch with his choice of quotations.
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塞拉斯通常会较好选择引用语。
09:05
This one generates no imagery at all."
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而这个并没有营造出任何画面感。”
09:07
I am now exposing myself to my audience, right?
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我正在对我的听众表达我自己的想法，对吗？
09:10
Which is something you never want to do professionally.
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这是你永远都不想认认真真去做的事。
09:13
"Maybe the words can make the image without anything else happening.
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“也许文字可以构建出画面但除此之外别无他事。
09:17
What's the heart of this poem?
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那么诗歌的核心是什么？
09:19
Don't be trendy if you want to be serious.
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如果你想要认真就不要赶时尚。
09:21
Is doing the poster this way trendy in itself?
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如此制作海报就本身来说是时尚的吗？
09:24
I guess one could reduce the idea further
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我猜想任何人都可以进一步缩小想法，
09:26
by suggesting that the new emerges behind and through the old,
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可以建议将”new“穿过”old“，
09:30
like this."
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就像这样：“
09:32
And then I show you a little drawing --
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那么我给你们看一副画——
09:34
you see, you remember that old thing I discarded?
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你们还应该记得我抛弃的老的创作吧？
09:37
Well, I found a way to use it.
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我发现了利用它的方法，
09:39
So, there's that little alternative over there,
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所以那里出现了一些替代方案，
09:42
and I say, "Not bad," -- criticizing myself --
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说我认为这并不坏，——自我批评——
09:46
"but more didactic than visual.
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”但相比视觉更多的是说教。
09:49
Maybe what wants to be said is that old and the new are locked in a dialectical embrace,
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也许真正想说的是陈旧的和新颖的是辩证的，
09:52
a kind of dance where each defines the other."
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相互联系相互影响的。“
09:54
And then more self-questioning -- "Am I being simple-minded?
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然后是更多的自我反省——”我是不是头脑简单了？
09:58
Is this the kind of simple that looks obvious, or the kind that looks profound?
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这是看上去很明显的简单，还是看上去很深奥的简单呢？
10:02
There's a significant difference.
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其中有着重大的区别。
10:04
This could be embarrassing.
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这会是令人羞愧的。
10:06
Actually, I realize fear of embarrassment drives me as much as any ambition.
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事实上，我察觉到对于困境的恐惧如同任何抱负一样驱动着我。
10:10
Do you think this sort of thing could really attract a student to the school?"
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你们认为这真的会吸引一个学生来学校吗？
10:14
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
10:21
Well, I think there are two fresh things here -- two fresh things.
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不错，我认为这里有两件新鲜的事物——两个新鲜的事物。
10:26
One is the sort of willingness to expose myself to a critical audience,
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一个是——在挑剔的听众面前表达自我的意愿，
10:33
and not to suggest that I am confident about what I'm doing.
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这并不是指我对我做的事情充满了信心。
10:39
And as you know, you have to have a front.
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正如你们所知道的，你必须有一个所要面对的方向，
10:43
I mean -- you've got to be confident;
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我指你必须做到自信。
10:45
if you don't believe in your work, who else is going to believe in it?
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如果你不相信你所做的一切，那么谁又会去相信呢？
10:48
So that's one thing,
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所以这是第一个，有些
10:50
to introduce the idea of doubt into graphics.
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将怀疑的思想引入到了图形中。
10:55
That can be a big contribution.
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那会是一个很大的贡献。
10:57
The other thing is to actually give you two solutions for the price of one;
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另一个是它给你提供了两种解决方案，
11:01
you get the big one
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你可以选择大的这个，
11:04
and if you don't like that, how about the little one?
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如果你不喜欢那个，那么小的这个怎么样？
11:07
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
11:09
And that too is a relatively new idea.
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那也是一个比较新的想法。
11:12
And here's just a series of experiments
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这里有一系列的实验
11:15
where I ask the question of -- does a poster have to be square?
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其中我问了一个问题——海报必须是方形的吗？
11:20
Now, this is a little illusion.
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这有些幻象了。
11:23
That poster is not folded.
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那个海报并没有被折叠。
11:25
It's not folded, that's a photograph
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它没有被折叠，它是一张照片
11:28
and it's cut on the diagonal.
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它在对角线上被剪裁了。
11:31
Same cheap trick in the upper left-hand corner.
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在左上角使用了同样的小把戏。
11:36
And here,
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这里，
11:38
a very peculiar poster because,
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是一张非常奇特的海报，因为，
11:40
simply because of using the isometric perspective in the computer,
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仅仅因为利用了计算机中的等距视角。
11:45
it won't sit still in the space.
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它在空间中不是静止不动的。
11:48
At times, it seems to be wider at the back than the front,
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有时候，仿佛后边比前边更加宽敞，
11:51
and then it shifts.
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然后又改变了。
11:53
And if you sit here long enough, it'll float off the page into the audience.
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如果你坐在这里足够久，它会离开页面漂到观众中。
11:58
But, we don't have time.
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但是，我们没有时间。
12:00
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
12:01
And then an experiment --
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然后又是一个实验——
12:03
a little bit about the nature of perspective,
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有一点点关于透视的性质，
12:06
where the outside shape is determined by the peculiarity of perspective,
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它的边缘形状由透视的特性决定，
12:10
but the shape of the bottle -- which is identical to the outside shape --
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但是和边缘形状类似的瓶子的外形
12:14
is seen frontally.
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看起来更靠前一些。
12:16
And another piece for the art directors' club
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另一个为艺术总监们的俱乐部设计的
12:20
is "Anna Rees" casting long shadows.
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是安娜里斯投射的长长的影子。
12:24
This is another poster from the School of Visual Arts.
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这不是视觉艺术学院制作的海报。
12:27
There were 10 artists invited to participate in it,
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有10位艺术家被邀请参与制作，
12:32
and it was one of those things where it was extremely competitive
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这是众多竞争非常激烈的事情之一，
12:34
and I didn't want to be embarrassed,
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我不想陷入尴尬窘境，
12:36
so I worked very hard on this.
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所以我为此非常努力地工作。
12:39
The idea was -- and it was a brilliant idea --
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它的想法是——这是一个不错的想法——
12:41
was to have 10 posters distributed throughout the city's subway system
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在整个城市的地铁里粘贴10幅海报，
12:45
so every time you got on the subway you'd be passing a different poster,
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这样每次进入地铁都可以经过不同的海报，
12:49
all of which had a different idea of what art is.
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每一幅都有对于什么是艺术的不同理解。
12:53
But I was absolutely stuck on the idea of "art is"
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但是我完全停留在“艺术”的理念上
12:59
and trying to determine what art was.
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并且竭力去探寻艺术是什么。
13:03
But then I gave up and I said, "Well, art is whatever."
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不过后来我放弃了并且认为：“任何事物都是艺术。”
13:07
And as soon as I said that,
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当我意识到那点时，
13:09
I discovered that the word "hat" was hidden in the word "whatever,"
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我发现单词“hat”隐藏在单词“whatever”中，
13:12
and that led me to the inevitable conclusion.
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这将我引导到了这个必然的结论上。
13:15
But then again, it's on my list of didactic posters.
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不过又一次它成为我的说教海报的一员。
13:19
My intent is to have a literary accompaniment that explains the poster,
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我是想要用点文学来解释海报，
13:23
in case you don't get it.
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以防你不能理解它。
13:26
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
13:28
Now this says, "Note to the viewer:
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这里写着：“给观者的注解——
13:30
I thought I might use a visual cliche of our time -- Magritte's everyman --
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我原想我可能会用这个时代的视觉上的陈词滥调，马格里特的人们，
13:33
to express the idea that art is mystery, continuity and history.
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来表达艺术具有神秘性、连续性以及历史性这一想法。
13:37
I'm also convinced that, in an age of computer manipulation,
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我也确信在电脑操控的时代，
13:40
surrealism has become banal,
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超现实主义已然变得腐朽不堪，
13:43
a shadow of its former self.
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成为了它前身的一道影子。
13:45
The phrase 'Art is whatever'
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这个短语“任何事物都是艺术”
13:47
expresses the current inclusiveness that surrounds art-making --
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解释了当下包围着艺术创作的包容性——
13:50
a sort of 'it ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it' notion.
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有些“不是你要创作什么而是你创作的方式”的概念。
13:53
The shadow of Magritte falls across the central part of the poster
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马格里特的影子铺盖了海报的中心部分
13:57
a poetic event that occurs as the shadow man isolates the word 'hat,'
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当这个人形影子将隐藏在单词“whatever”中的“hat”这个词
14:02
hidden in the word 'whatever.'
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孤立出来时产生了诗意效果。
14:04
The four hats shown in the poster suggests how art might be defined:
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在海报中展示的靠前的帽子暗示了艺术可能被定义为
14:07
as a thing itself, the worth of the thing, the shadow of the thing,
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一种事物本身、事物的价值、事物的影子
14:11
and the shape of the thing.
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或者是事物的形状。
14:13
Whatever."
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无论是什么。
14:15
(Applause)
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（掌声）
14:16
OK.
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好吧
14:17
(Applause)
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（掌声）
14:22
And the one that I did not submit,
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接下来是一幅我没有提交的作品，
14:25
which I still like,
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但我仍然很喜欢。
14:27
I wanted to use the same phrase.
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我想用同一个短语——
14:29
There were wonderful experiments by Bruno Munari
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在许多年以前布鲁诺穆纳里曾做过
14:35
on letterforms some years ago --
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一些关于字母形式的相当精彩的实验——
14:37
sort of, see how far you could go and still be able to read them.
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来观察到了什么程度你们仍然能够把单词识别出来。
14:39
And that idea stuck in my head.
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而且那种想法停留在我的脑中。
14:41
But then I took the pieces that I had taken off and put them at the bottom.
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但是后来我把去掉的部分又重新组合起来放在下方，
14:46
And, of course those are the remains, and they're so labeled.
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当然它们是残余下来的并且很具有标记性。
14:51
But what really happens is that you read it as:
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但是事实上你将读到的是——
14:54
"Art is whatever remains."
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“艺术是任何保存下来的事物。”
14:57
Thank you.
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谢谢。
14:59
(Applause)
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（鼓掌）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Milton Glaser - Graphic designerIf his career began and ended with "I [heart] N Y," Milton Glaser would still be a legend. But over his multi-decade career, his body of work is sprinkled with similarly iconic images and logos.
Why you should listen
Milton Glaser's work is easy to spot in a lineup -- it's simple, direct and clear, while leaping over conceptual boundaries, so that his work connects directly to the viewer like a happy virus. His best-known work may be the I [heart] N Y logo -- an image so ubiquitous, it's hard to believe there was a time when it didn't exist.
Glaser's other well-known work includes a cache of posters that defined the style of the '60s and early '70s, and numerous logos, including such instantly familiar identities as Barron's and the Brooklyn Brewery. He is a co-founder of New York magazine and helped set that magazine's honest and irreverent tone.
Recently he's been exploring the space where paintings and graphic design meet. A show in 2007 celebrated his explorations of Piero della Francesca's work. The 2009 film To Inform and Delight: The World of Milton Glaser tells the story of his celebrated career.
Milton Glaser | Speaker | TED.com