TEDxOrlando
Tammy Lally: Let's get honest about our money problems
譚美拉里: 誠實面對自己的金錢問題
Filmed:
Readability: 3.4
2,068,458 views
為了生活費和管理財務而掙扎是很常見的，但誠實並開放地談論它卻不常見。為什麼我們要隱藏關於金錢的問題？在這場很細膩、個人化的演說中，作家譚美拉里鼓勵我們脫離「金錢羞恥」，並告訴我們要如何停止將我們的銀行帳戶餘額和我們的自我價值劃上等號。
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Have you every had to break
your family's rules?
your family's rules?
0
803
2435
你們是否曾經必須要打破家規？
00:16
Today, I'm breaking mine,
1
4260
2534
今天，我要打破我的家規，
00:18
around money, secrecy and shame.
2
6818
3301
關於金錢、秘密，以及羞恥的家規。
00:23
In 2006, on my brother Keith's
40th birthday, he called.
40th birthday, he called.
3
11922
3841
2006 年，我哥哥基斯在他
四十歲生日的那一天打電話來。
四十歲生日的那一天打電話來。
00:29
"Tam, I'm in dire straits.
4
17017
2555
「譚美，我的狀況非常糟。
00:32
I wouldn't ask unless I had to.
5
20514
2753
不到必要關頭，我不會問的。
00:36
Can I borrow 7,500 dollars?"
6
24381
2442
我能否跟你借 7500 美金？」
00:40
This wasn't the first time
he needed quick cash,
he needed quick cash,
7
28611
2754
那並不是他第一次急需現金，
00:43
but this time, his voice frightened me.
8
31389
2325
但這一次，他的聲音嚇著了我。
00:47
I had never heard him
so beaten down and shameful,
so beaten down and shameful,
9
35664
4063
我從來沒有聽過他這麼
潦倒、羞恥的聲音，
潦倒、羞恥的聲音，
00:54
and it was on his 40th birthday.
10
42321
2087
且那天是他的四十歲生日。
01:01
After a few basic questions
that we would all ask,
that we would all ask,
11
49723
2928
問了幾個大家都會問的
基本問題之後，
基本問題之後，
01:05
I agreed to loan him the money,
but under one condition:
but under one condition:
12
53737
3493
我同意借他錢，但有一個條件：
01:10
that as the financial
professional in the family,
professional in the family,
13
58421
2444
身為家中的財務專家，
01:12
I wanted to meet with him and his wife
14
60889
1954
我想要和他及他太太見面，
01:14
to see what was really happening.
15
62867
1926
了解真正的狀況。
01:17
Weeks later, we met
at the local Starbucks,
at the local Starbucks,
16
65983
3223
幾週之後，我們在
當地的星巴克裡見面，
當地的星巴克裡見面，
01:21
and I started right in
with the tough-love budget conversation.
with the tough-love budget conversation.
17
69230
4197
我一開始就切入談起
「嚴苛的愛」生活費。
「嚴苛的愛」生活費。
01:26
"You should sell the house,
downsize to something you can afford,
downsize to something you can afford,
18
74336
4279
「你應該把房子賣了，
換到小一點但能負擔的房子，
換到小一點但能負擔的房子，
01:30
sell the toys.
19
78639
1966
把『玩具』賣掉。
01:32
And Starbucks?
20
80629
1486
至於星巴克呢？
01:34
Give up the five-dollar-a-day coffee."
21
82139
2000
放棄每天五美金的咖啡。」
01:37
You know, all the trappings that we do
to keep up with the Joneses.
to keep up with the Joneses.
22
85343
3811
你知道的，所有為了
和別人比較而做的虛飾。
和別人比較而做的虛飾。
01:42
Quickly, my brother and his wife
went into a fearsome blame game,
went into a fearsome blame game,
23
90811
3239
很快地，我哥哥和他太太
就開始了可怕的怪罪比賽，
就開始了可怕的怪罪比賽，
01:47
and it got messy.
24
95348
1289
場面很難看。
01:49
I vacillated between therapist
and pissed-off sister.
and pissed-off sister.
25
97709
4880
我在治療師和被惹毛的妹妹
這兩個身分之間遊走。
這兩個身分之間遊走。
01:56
I wanted them to be better than this.
26
104029
2063
我希望他們做得比現在這樣更好。
01:58
"Come on, you two. Get your shit together.
27
106500
2870
「拜託，兩位，別再瞎搞了。
02:02
You're parents.
28
110025
1506
你們是父母。
02:03
Grow up and buck up."
29
111555
2365
成熟一點，振作一點。」
02:08
After we left, I called my mom,
30
116280
2521
我們離開後，我打電話給我母親，
02:12
but Keith beat me to it,
31
120484
1930
但基斯比我快了一步，
02:14
and he told her that I wasn't helpful.
32
122438
2387
他跟母親說我都不幫忙。
02:17
In fact, he was hurt
and felt ganged-up on.
and felt ganged-up on.
33
125955
3460
事實上，他很受傷，
覺得大家都聯手對付他。
覺得大家都聯手對付他。
02:24
Of course he did. I shamed him
with my tough-love budget conversation.
with my tough-love budget conversation.
34
132200
6600
他當然會有這種反應。我用我那段
嚴苛的愛生活費談話來羞辱他。
嚴苛的愛生活費談話來羞辱他。
02:33
Two months went by when I received a call.
35
141091
2516
兩個月之後，我接到一通電話。
02:36
"Tam? I have bad news.
36
144669
2581
「譚美？我有壞消息。
02:40
Keith committed suicide last night."
37
148646
2063
基斯昨晚自殺了。」
02:47
Days later, at his home,
I went looking for answers,
I went looking for answers,
38
155747
3674
幾天後，在他家，我去尋找答案，
02:52
in his "office" -- the garage.
39
160626
2185
我進到他的「辦公室」——車庫。
02:56
There, I found a stack
of overdue credit card bills
of overdue credit card bills
40
164416
4231
在那裡，我找到一疊
過期的信用卡帳單，
過期的信用卡帳單，
03:00
and a foreclosure notice served to him
on the day that he died.
on the day that he died.
41
168671
4690
還有一份回贖權取消通知，
在他過世的那天交給他。
在他過世的那天交給他。
03:24
My brother left behind
his beautiful 10-year-old daughter,
his beautiful 10-year-old daughter,
42
192959
4529
我哥哥留下了一個美麗的十歲女兒，
03:29
his brilliant 18-year-old son,
weeks before his high school graduation,
weeks before his high school graduation,
43
197512
5341
一個聰明的十八歲兒子，
幾週後就要高中畢業，
幾週後就要高中畢業，
03:34
and his wife of 20 years.
44
202877
1650
還有結婚二十年的太太。
03:38
How did this happen?
45
206180
1396
這是怎麼發生的？
03:42
My brother was caught
in our family's money-shame cycle,
in our family's money-shame cycle,
46
210276
4580
我哥哥陷入了我家的
「金錢羞恥」循環中，
「金錢羞恥」循環中，
03:46
and he was far from alone in this.
47
214880
2094
且他不是唯一的一個人。
03:50
Suicide rates among adults ages 40 to 64
48
218087
5430
從 1999 年開始，
40 到 64 歲的成人
40 到 64 歲的成人
03:55
have risen nearly 40 percent since 1999.
49
223541
3705
自殺率上升了近 40%。
04:00
Job loss, bankruptcy and foreclosures
50
228141
3532
近 40% 的自殺死者遇到
失業、破產，和回贖權
取消的狀況，
取消的狀況，
04:03
were present in nearly
40 percent of the deaths,
40 percent of the deaths,
51
231697
3213
04:06
with white middle-aged men
accounting for seven out of 10 suicides.
accounting for seven out of 10 suicides.
52
234934
5389
十個自殺者當中
就有七個是中年白人，
就有七個是中年白人，
04:13
What I've learned
53
241823
2191
我們發現，
04:16
is that our self-destructive
and self-defeating financial behaviors
and self-defeating financial behaviors
54
244038
6622
我們的自我毀滅
和自取滅亡的財務行為
04:22
are not driven
by our rational, logical minds.
by our rational, logical minds.
55
250684
3901
並不是由理性、邏輯的大腦所控制。
04:27
Instead, they are a product
of our subconscious belief systems
of our subconscious belief systems
56
255434
6294
反之，這些行為是我們
潛意識信念系統的產物，
04:33
rooted in our childhoods
57
261752
2191
深根於我們的童年，
04:35
and so deeply ingrained in us,
58
263967
2484
在我們體內非常根深蒂固，
04:38
they shape the way that we deal with money
our entire adult lives,
our entire adult lives,
59
266475
4881
形塑了我們在整個成年期中
處理金錢的方式，
處理金錢的方式，
04:43
and so many of you are left believing
that you're lazy,
that you're lazy,
60
271380
6229
所以，許多人就會
相信自己是懶惰、
04:49
crazy or stupid -- or just bad with money.
61
277633
4200
瘋了，或是愚蠢，
或就是不擅長處理錢。
或就是不擅長處理錢。
04:55
This is what I call money shame.
62
283027
2611
這就是我所謂的金錢羞恥。
04:59
Dr. Brené Brown,
a well-known shame researcher,
a well-known shame researcher,
63
287216
3687
布芮尼布朗博士
是一位著名的羞恥研究者，
是一位著名的羞恥研究者，
05:02
defines shame as "the intensely
painful feeling or experience
painful feeling or experience
64
290927
6302
她把羞恥定義為
「極度痛苦的感覺或經驗，
05:09
of believing that we are flawed,
65
297253
3325
相信我們有瑕疵，
05:12
and therefore unworthy
of love and belonging."
of love and belonging."
66
300602
3579
因此不值得被愛及有所歸屬。」
05:17
Based on this definition,
here's how I'm defining money shame:
here's how I'm defining money shame:
67
305746
4266
根據這個定義，
我把金錢羞恥定義如下：
我把金錢羞恥定義如下：
05:23
"the intensely painful
feeling or experience
feeling or experience
68
311499
2683
「極度痛苦的感覺或經驗，
05:26
of believing that we are flawed,
69
314206
2796
相信我們有瑕疵，
05:29
and therefore unworthy
of love and belonging,
of love and belonging,
70
317026
3165
因此不值得被愛及有所歸屬，
05:32
based on our bank account balances,
71
320215
2222
依據的是我們的銀行帳戶餘額、
05:35
our debts, our homes, our cars
72
323546
4548
我們的負債、
我們的房子、我們的車子，
我們的房子、我們的車子，
05:40
and our job titles."
73
328118
1451
以及我們的工作頭銜。」
05:43
Let me give you a couple
of examples of what I mean.
of examples of what I mean.
74
331833
2588
讓我舉幾個例子來說明我的意思。
05:47
I believe that we all have money shame,
75
335756
2627
我相信我們都有金錢羞恥，
05:50
whether you earn
10,000 dollars a year or 10 million,
10,000 dollars a year or 10 million,
76
338407
3895
不論你的年收入是
一萬美金或一千萬美金，
一萬美金或一千萬美金，
05:54
and it's because we give money
all of our power.
all of our power.
77
342326
3311
原因是因為我們把
所有的權力都交給金錢。
所有的權力都交給金錢。
05:59
Here's what it would look like
if someone that you love, or you,
if someone that you love, or you,
78
347737
4191
如果你所愛的人或是你本身
有金錢羞恥的話，
有金錢羞恥的話，
06:03
might have money shame.
79
351952
2124
看起來會是這個樣子的：
06:06
They play the big shot,
always picking up the check,
always picking up the check,
80
354100
3330
他們會裝作是大人物，
總是要當付錢的人，
總是要當付錢的人，
06:09
financially rescuing family and friends.
81
357454
2849
在財務上去拯救家人和朋友。
06:12
They are financially secure,
82
360327
2254
他們在財務上是安全的，
06:14
but they live in a state
of chronic not-enoughness.
of chronic not-enoughness.
83
362605
3674
但他們生活在一種長期
都不覺得足夠的狀態。
都不覺得足夠的狀態。
06:20
They drive a Mercedes, but their budget
really only can afford a Honda.
really only can afford a Honda.
84
368433
6460
他們開賓士汽車，但他們的預算
其實只負擔得起本田汽車。
其實只負擔得起本田汽車。
06:28
And they're looking good at every cost.
85
376234
3157
他們會不計代價想
讓自己看起來很棒。
讓自己看起來很棒。
06:32
I know that we can break free
from the grips of money shame,
from the grips of money shame,
86
380539
4302
我知道我們可以脫離
金錢羞恥的掌心，
金錢羞恥的掌心，
06:36
because I did.
87
384865
1189
因為我就做過。
06:39
Shortly after my brother's death,
the Recession hit.
the Recession hit.
88
387267
3690
在我哥哥過世後不久，
發生經濟衰退，
發生經濟衰退，
06:43
I lost my business and faced bankruptcy.
89
391976
3057
我失去了我的事業，面臨破產。
06:48
Secretly, I was terrified.
90
396447
3761
私底下，我害怕極了。
06:53
I stayed in my home for a year,
thinking I did something wrong,
thinking I did something wrong,
91
401409
5667
我待在我家裡一整年，
認為是我做錯了什麼事，
認為是我做錯了什麼事，
06:59
told myself, "What did you do?
What happened?"
What happened?"
92
407100
3507
我問自己：「你做了什麼？
發生了什麼事？」
發生了什麼事？」
07:03
I stayed silent, while all along,
I went outside and smiled.
I went outside and smiled.
93
411852
5285
我保持沉默，但我一直都會
走到外面對大家微笑。
走到外面對大家微笑。
07:09
Nobody knew.
94
417767
1150
沒有人知道。
07:11
That's money shame.
95
419692
1321
那就是金錢羞恥。
07:14
So what I had to do
was let go of the grip that I had
was let go of the grip that I had
96
422640
5358
我必須要放下，
不能再覺得我知道所有的答案。
07:20
on knowing all the answers.
97
428022
1999
07:22
I was the know-it-all in my family,
98
430045
1880
在我家，我就是那個
什麼都知道的人，
什麼都知道的人，
07:25
and I had to give up the idea
that a new financial plan
that a new financial plan
99
433600
4572
我得要放棄認為新的財務計畫
就是解決方案的想法。
07:30
was the solution.
100
438196
1356
07:33
And so just like everything
in my life, for me,
in my life, for me,
101
441188
5271
所以，就像我人生中的一切一樣，
07:38
I was sent a human to help,
102
446483
3231
有個人來幫助我，
07:42
and I accepted the help,
103
450896
1650
而我接受了那幫助，
07:46
but I had to do major self-inquiry
104
454038
3295
但我得要做重要的自我探索，
07:49
about my family's money history
105
457357
3237
探索我家族的金錢史
07:52
and my money beliefs.
106
460618
1866
以及我的金錢信仰。
07:56
We have to start having this conversation.
107
464777
3969
我們得要開始進行這樣的談話。
08:00
Money can no longer be a taboo topic.
108
468770
2681
金錢不能夠再是禁忌的話題。
08:04
We have to get honest with each other
that we're suffering with money issues,
that we're suffering with money issues,
109
472202
6104
我們得要對彼此誠實，
坦誠我們遇到了金錢問題，
08:10
and let's get real -- we have to stop
numbing out our pain.
numbing out our pain.
110
478330
4428
而且，咱們要實際點——
我們得要停止去麻木我們的痛苦。
我們得要停止去麻木我們的痛苦。
08:16
In order to uncover the painful parts
111
484484
3049
為了要揭露出你的金錢故事
及你的金錢歷史中的痛苦部分，
08:19
of your money story
and your money history,
and your money history,
112
487557
2741
08:23
you can't be numb.
113
491481
1293
你不能麻木。
08:25
We have to let go of our past
in order to be free.
in order to be free.
114
493998
5182
我們得要放下過去，才能夠自由。
08:32
Letting go of the past
happens through surrender,
happens through surrender,
115
500823
3691
要透過屈服、信念，以及寬恕，
08:36
faith and forgiveness.
116
504538
1983
才能放下過去。
08:39
Debt is the tangible manifestation
of not forgiving.
of not forgiving.
117
507334
4849
債務就是不寬恕的實質具體呈現。
08:44
If you have debt, you've not
completely forgiven your past,
completely forgiven your past,
118
512893
4207
如果你還欠債，你就還沒有
完全寬恕你的過去，
完全寬恕你的過去，
08:49
so it's our work
to forgive ourselves and others
to forgive ourselves and others
119
517124
3760
所以，我們要做的是寬恕
我們自己以及他人，
我們自己以及他人，
08:52
so that we can live freely.
120
520908
1762
這樣我們才能自由地生活。
08:54
Otherwise, our history
will continue to repeat.
will continue to repeat.
121
522694
3229
不然，我們的歷史就會不斷重演。
08:59
This is not a quick fix,
and I know we all want one,
and I know we all want one,
122
527648
4064
這並不是快速解決的方案，
我知道我們都希望快速解決，
我知道我們都希望快速解決，
09:03
but it's a slow wake-up.
123
531736
1928
但它其實是緩慢的覺醒。
09:05
This is another level of work.
124
533688
2365
這是另一個層級的工作了。
09:08
We have to go higher to get it,
125
536413
3291
我們得要爬更高才能得到它，
09:11
to get at it.
126
539728
1269
才能夠得著它。
09:14
So try this: follow your dollars.
127
542014
2746
所以，試試這樣做：
跟著你的錢走。
跟著你的錢走。
09:17
Your money will show you
right away what you value.
right away what you value.
128
545302
3228
你的金錢會馬上告訴你
你重視的是什麼。
你重視的是什麼。
09:21
Where's it going?
129
549491
1477
它被花到哪裡去了？
09:22
And then ask yourself:
Do I really value all this stuff?
Do I really value all this stuff?
130
550992
4502
接著，問問你自己：
我真的重視所有這些東西嗎？
我真的重視所有這些東西嗎？
09:27
And get curious about
what you're feeling when you're spending.
what you're feeling when you're spending.
131
555990
3419
要好奇地去了解
當你花錢時的感受是什麼。
當你花錢時的感受是什麼。
09:31
Are you lonely?
132
559433
1597
你寂寞嗎？
09:33
Are you bored?
133
561054
1332
你無聊嗎？
09:34
Or are you just excited?
134
562868
2611
或者你只是興奮？
09:39
But there's deeper work
that needs to happen.
that needs to happen.
135
567424
2309
但還有更深的工作需要去做。
09:42
How did you get all these
money beliefs to begin with?
money beliefs to begin with?
136
570063
2888
你一開始是怎麼產生出
這些金錢信念的？
這些金錢信念的？
09:46
I call this your money autobiography,
137
574623
2760
我稱它為你的金錢自傳，
09:49
and as a money coach, this is
the first step I take with my clients.
the first step I take with my clients.
138
577407
4277
我是個金錢教練，
我帶客戶所做的第一步如下。
我帶客戶所做的第一步如下。
09:54
Think back to your earliest
childhood money memory.
childhood money memory.
139
582773
3190
回想你孩童時期
最早的金錢相關記憶。
最早的金錢相關記憶。
09:58
What did it feel like when you got money?
140
586685
2103
當你拿到錢的時候，感覺如何？
10:01
Were you excited, proud or confused?
141
589235
3803
你是很興奮、很驕傲，
還是很困惑？
還是很困惑？
10:06
And what did you do with the money?
142
594051
2097
你把錢用在哪裡？
10:08
Did you run with the candy store,
or did you run to the bank?
or did you run to the bank?
143
596172
3698
你是跑去糖果店，還是跑去銀行？
10:12
And what did you hear your parents say,
144
600899
2464
你聽見你的父母說什麼？
10:15
and what did you see
your parents do with the money?
your parents do with the money?
145
603387
3079
你看到你的父母如何使用金錢？
10:19
My brother and I heard,
146
607548
2220
我哥哥和我聽到的是：
10:21
"More money will make us happy."
147
609792
1857
「更多的錢會讓我們快樂。」
10:24
Every day.
148
612506
1191
每天都聽到。
10:25
"More money will make us happy."
149
613721
2209
「更多的錢會讓我們快樂。」
10:27
And we internalized that
into the money belief
into the money belief
150
615954
3427
我們就會把它內化成金錢信念，
10:31
that our self worth was equal
to our net worth
to our net worth
151
619405
3788
相信我們的自我價值
等同於我們的淨值，
等同於我們的淨值，
10:35
as we watched our mom live in a state
of chronic not-enoughness.
of chronic not-enoughness.
152
623217
5297
同時看著我們的母親活在
一種長期都覺得不夠足的狀態中。
一種長期都覺得不夠足的狀態中。
10:41
And she numbed the pain
with sugar and shopping.
with sugar and shopping.
153
629064
4142
她用糖和購物來麻痹那痛苦。
10:46
So what did we do?
154
634441
1432
所以，我們做了什麼？
10:48
Keith played out my mother's life.
155
636941
2032
基斯重演了我母親的人生。
10:51
He was an underearner,
longed to be financially rescued,
longed to be financially rescued,
156
639514
3991
他賺的錢很少，
渴望在財務上被拯救，
渴望在財務上被拯救，
10:55
and he numbed out the pain with alcohol.
157
643529
2325
他用酒精來麻木他的痛苦。
10:59
I did the opposite.
158
647058
1328
我做的相反。
11:01
I became a high earner,
159
649360
2153
我變成了高收入者，
11:03
rescuer,
160
651537
3334
拯救者，
11:06
and I numbed the pain out
with self-help books.
with self-help books.
161
654895
3483
我用自助書籍來麻目我的痛苦。
11:11
But what we had in common
was our money belief.
was our money belief.
162
659699
2826
但我們兩人的共通點
是我們的金錢信念。
是我們的金錢信念。
11:14
We both believed
that our bank account balance
that our bank account balance
163
662549
2617
我們都相信我們的銀行帳戶餘額
11:17
was equal to our self worth.
164
665190
1691
等同於我們的自我價值。
11:20
Looking back at the Starbucks
meeting with my brother ...
meeting with my brother ...
165
668904
3143
回頭看我和我哥哥
在星巴克的會面……
在星巴克的會面……
11:25
he didn't need a budget and my judgment.
166
673603
3160
他並不需要生活費和我的評斷。
11:29
He needed a breakthrough
from his suffering,
from his suffering,
167
677692
3096
他需要的是從他的苦難突破出來，
11:32
and he needed my compassion.
168
680812
2006
他需要我的同理心。
11:36
Keith was not able
to be the one to speak up
to be the one to speak up
169
684037
2867
基斯無法成為說出來並且打破
我們家族金錢羞恥循環的那個人，
11:38
and break our family money shame cycle,
170
686928
2490
11:41
so he left me to do the work
and share his legacy.
and share his legacy.
171
689442
3626
所以他把這個工作留給我，
並分享了他的遺產。
並分享了他的遺產。
11:46
Change is difficult,
172
694759
1627
改變很難，
11:49
but in my family, not changing is fatal.
173
697792
3389
但在我的家庭中，
不改變反而會致命。
不改變反而會致命。
11:54
So I did the work,
174
702670
1654
所以我做了這項工作，
11:56
and I have experienced deep
and profound forgiveness,
and profound forgiveness,
175
704348
4722
我已經經驗過了
深刻且深切的寬恕，
深刻且深切的寬恕，
12:03
and as I stand here today,
176
711096
2381
且，今天我站在這裡，
12:05
I am living on purpose,
177
713501
2333
我活著是有目的的，
12:09
I serve, and money serves me.
178
717473
3063
我服務，而金錢也會服務我。
12:13
It only takes one person in your family
179
721850
4158
在你的家庭中，只需要有一個人
12:18
to break through the money-shame cycle.
180
726032
2476
來打破金錢羞恥的循環。
12:21
I want you to be the one.
181
729416
2361
我希望各位能當這個人。
12:24
Thank you.
182
732608
1151
謝謝。
12:25
(Applause)
183
733783
3447
（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Tammy Lally - Money coachTammy Lally helps others master their finances.
Why you should listen
Tammy Lally is a Certified Money Coach and author of Money Detox. She helps others master their finances by first conquering their emotions around money, then by creating a comprehensive financial plan.
Lally has deep experience in the financial industry and has spent years studying psychology, addiction, recovery and spirituality. Her teachers include Brené Brown, Marianne Williamson, Pia Melody and Byron Katie.
Lally brings a distinctive blend of financial industry experience, psychological knowledge and spiritual consciousness to her work. She created a seven-step "Money Detox" process that allows anyone to achieve financial freedom and joy.
Tammy Lally | Speaker | TED.com