ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Euna Lee - Journalist
Euna Lee strives to be a voice for the voiceless and a window for those with no access to outside information.

Why you should listen

A seasoned journalist with more than years of experience, Euna Lee is a television executive producer for Voice of America's Korean Service (VOA). Prior to VOA, she worked for Fusion media, AJ+ and Al Jazeera TV networks.

Lee’s name became widely known after she was captured by the North Korean regime while covering a human trafficking story for Current TV, a cable network co-founded by former Vice President Al Gore. She wrote a memoir, The World is Bigger Now, about her experience while detained in North Korea for 140 days.

Lee has received various awards for her fearless work, including McGill Medal by University of Georgia and Glamour magazine's Women of the Year Award in 2009. At VOA, she strives to be a voice for the voiceless and a window for those with no access to outside information. Born and raised in South Korea, Lee holds a master’s degree in journalism from Columbia University.

More profile about the speaker
Euna Lee | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxIndianaUniversity

Euna Lee: What I learned as a prisoner in North Korea

Euna Lee: O que aprendi como prisioneira na Coreia do Norte

Filmed:
3,295,725 views

Em março de 2009, soldados da Coreia do Norte capturaram a jornalista Euna Lee e sua colega Laura Ling enquanto filmavam um documentário na fronteira com a China. Os tribunais as condenaram a 12 anos de trabalhos forçados, mas os diplomatas americanos finalmente negociaram a libertação delas. Nesta palestra surpreendente e profundamente humana, Lee compartilha a experiência dela vivendo como o inimigo em um centro de detenção por 140 dias, e os minúsculos gestos de humanidade de seus guardas que deram forças a ela.
- Journalist
Euna Lee strives to be a voice for the voiceless and a window for those with no access to outside information. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
I recently read about
what the young generation of workers want
0
754
4356
Li, recentemente, sobre o desejo
da jovem geração trabalhadora
no "Harvard Business Review".
00:17
in Harvard Business Review.
1
5134
1851
Um fato chamou minha atenção:
00:19
One thing that stuck out to me
was: don't just talk about impact,
2
7009
5012
não fale apenas sobre
impacto, mas cause um.
00:24
but make an impact.
3
12045
1661
00:26
I'm a little bit older than you,
4
14722
2005
Sou um pouquinho mais velha que vocês,
00:29
maybe much older than you,
5
17532
1876
talvez muito mais velha,
00:31
but this is exactly the same goal
that I had when I was in college.
6
19432
4533
mas este é exatamente o mesmo objetivo
que eu tinha quando estava na faculdade.
00:37
I wanted to make my own impact
for those who live under injustice;
7
25481
4693
Eu queria causar meu próprio
impacto àqueles que são injustiçados.
00:42
it's the reason that I became
a documentary journalist,
8
30198
3381
Foi a razão pela qual me tornei
jornalista de documentário,
00:45
the reason I became
9
33603
1563
a razão pela qual me tornei
prisioneira na Coreia
do Norte por 140 dias.
00:47
a prisoner in North Korea for 140 days.
10
35968
3173
00:52
It was March 17, 2009.
11
40055
2802
Era 17 de março de 2009.
00:55
It is St. Patrick's Day for all of you,
12
43406
3016
É o dia de São Patrício para vocês,
00:58
but it was the day
that turned my life upside down.
13
46446
4554
mas foi o dia que virou
minha vida de cabeça para baixo.
01:03
My team and I were making a documentary
about North Korean refugees
14
51526
4601
Minha equipe e eu fazíamos
um documentário sobre os refugiados
da Coreia do Norte
01:08
living below human life in China.
15
56151
3470
vivendo em condições sub-humanas na China.
01:13
We were at the border.
16
61081
2181
Estávamos na fronteira.
01:15
It was our last day of filming.
17
63951
2193
Era nosso último dia de filmagem.
01:19
There was no wire fence
18
67597
2627
Não havia cerca de arame
ou grades
01:22
or bars
19
70248
1270
01:23
or sign to show that it is the border,
20
71542
2296
ou sinal para indicar que era a fronteira,
mas este é o lugar que muitos
desertores da Coreia do Norte
01:25
but this is a place that a lot
of North Korean defectors use
21
73862
3751
usam como rota de fuga.
01:29
as an escape route.
22
77637
1462
01:32
It was still winter,
23
80734
1935
Ainda era inverno,
01:34
and the river was frozen.
24
82693
2493
e o rio estava congelado.
01:37
When we were in the middle
of the frozen river,
25
85739
3622
No meio do rio congelado,
estávamos filmando
sobre as condições do tempo frio
01:41
we were filming about
the condition of the cold weather
26
89385
2912
01:44
and the environment
27
92321
1198
e o ambiente com o qual
os norte-coreanos tinham que lidar
01:45
that North Koreans had to deal with
28
93543
2726
quando buscavam a liberdade.
01:48
when they seek their freedom.
29
96293
1827
01:51
And suddenly, one
of my team members shouted,
30
99159
3135
De repente, um dos membros
de minha equipe gritou:
01:54
"Soldiers!"
31
102318
1153
"Soldados!"
01:55
So I looked back,
32
103932
1702
Então olhei para trás,
01:57
and there were two small soldiers
in green uniforms with rifles,
33
105658
5648
e havia dois soldados armados,
de uniforme verde,
02:03
chasing after us.
34
111330
1392
nos perseguindo.
02:05
We all ran as fast as we could.
35
113288
2638
Corremos o mais depressa possível.
02:08
I prayed that, please
don't let them shoot my head.
36
116773
2989
Rezei para que, por favor,
não atirassem em minha cabeça.
02:12
And I was thinking that,
37
120422
1802
Eu pensava que, se meus pés
estivessem em solo chinês,
02:14
if my feet are on Chinese soil,
38
122248
2734
eu estaria a salvo.
02:17
I'll be safe.
39
125006
1353
02:18
And I made it to Chinese soil.
40
126383
2193
Cheguei ao solo chinês.
02:21
Then I saw my colleague
Laura Ling fall on her knees.
41
129424
4278
Então vi minha colega
Laura Ling cair de joelhos.
02:26
I didn't know what to do
at that short moment,
42
134431
2616
Não sabia o que fazer
naquele curto espaço de tempo,
02:29
but I knew that I could not
leave her alone there
43
137071
2627
mas sabia que não poderia
deixá-la sozinha.
02:31
when she said,
"Euna, I can't feel my legs."
44
139722
2991
Foi quando ela disse: "Euna,
não posso sentir minhas pernas".
02:35
In a flash, we were surrounded
by these two Korean soldiers.
45
143860
4803
Num instante, fomos cercadas
por dois soldados coreanos.
02:40
They were not much bigger than us,
46
148687
2343
Não eram muito maiores do que nós,
mas estavam determinados
a nos levar para a base militar deles.
02:43
but they were determined
to take us to their army base.
47
151054
3699
Implorei e gritei
por qualquer tipo de ajuda,
02:47
I begged and yelled for any kind of help,
48
155779
3201
esperando que aparecesse alguém da China.
02:51
hoping that someone
would show up from China.
49
159004
3152
02:55
Here I was, being stubborn
50
163377
1921
Aqui estava eu, teimosa,
02:57
towards a trained soldier with a gun.
51
165964
2512
dirigindo-me a um soldado
treinado e armado.
03:00
I looked at his eyes.
52
168500
1657
Olhei nos olhos dele.
03:04
He was just a boy.
53
172625
1441
Era apenas um garoto.
03:07
At that moment,
he raised his rifle to hit me,
54
175034
3515
Naquele momento, ele levantou
a arma para atirar em mim,
03:10
but I saw that he was hesitating.
55
178573
2142
mas pude ver que estava hesitando.
03:12
His eyes were shaking,
56
180739
1775
Os olhos dele tremiam,
03:14
and his rifle was still up in the air.
57
182538
3138
e a arma dele estava imóvel no ar.
03:18
So I shouted at him,
58
186217
2262
Então gritei para ele:
"Está bem, está bem, vou com você".
03:20
"OK, OK, I'll walk with you."
59
188503
2306
03:23
And I got up.
60
191415
1316
E eu me levantei.
Quando chegamos à base militar deles,
03:26
When we arrived at their army base,
61
194269
2814
03:29
my head was spinning
with these worst-case scenarios,
62
197995
3896
minha cabeça estava girando,
esperando pelo pior,
03:33
and my colleague's
statement wasn't helping.
63
201915
2965
e a declaração de minha colega
não estava ajudando.
Ela dizia: "Somos o inimigo".
03:36
She said, "We are the enemy."
64
204904
2122
Ela tinha razão: éramos o inimigo.
03:39
She was right: we were the enemy.
65
207951
2686
03:43
And I was supposed to be frightened, too.
66
211851
2124
Eu também devia estar apavorada.
03:46
But I kept having these odd experiences.
67
214734
2976
Mas continuei a ter
essas experiências estranhas.
Dessa vez, um policial
trouxe-me o casaco dele
03:49
This time, an officer brought me his coat
68
217734
3943
03:53
to keep me warm,
69
221701
1411
para me manter aquecida,
03:55
because I lost my coat on the frozen river
70
223136
3991
porque eu havia perdido
meu casaco no rio congelado
enquanto lutava com um desses soldados.
03:59
while battling with one of these soldiers.
71
227151
2207
04:02
I will tell you what I mean
by these odd experiences.
72
230937
3842
Vou lhes contar o que quero dizer
com experiências estranhas.
04:07
I grew up in South Korea.
73
235315
1781
Fui criada na Coreia do Sul.
04:09
To us, North Korea was always the enemy,
74
237731
3788
Para nós, a Coreia do Norte
sempre foi o inimigo,
04:13
even before I was born.
75
241543
1438
até mesmo antes de eu nascer.
O Sul e o Norte estão
em armistício há 63 anos,
04:15
South and North have been
under armistice for 63 years,
76
243544
5473
desde o final da Guerra da Coreia.
04:21
since the end of the Korean War.
77
249041
2117
04:23
And growing up in the South
in the '80s and '90s,
78
251952
3726
Crescendo no Sul, nos anos 80 e 90,
04:27
we were taught propaganda
about North Korea.
79
255702
3477
ensinavam propaganda
sobre a Coreia do Norte para nós.
04:33
And we heard so many graphic stories,
80
261412
2417
Líamos muitas histórias chocantes,
como a de um jovem garotinho
brutalmente assassinado
04:35
such as, a little young boy
being brutally killed
81
263853
3715
04:39
by North Korean spies
just because he said,
82
267592
3476
por espiões norte-coreanos
só porque ele disse:
"Não gosto de comunistas".
04:43
"I don't like communists."
83
271092
1373
04:45
Or, I watched this cartoon series
84
273627
3826
Eu assistia a uma série de desenhos
sobre um jovem garoto sul-coreano
04:49
about a young South Korean boy
defeating these fat, big, red pig,
85
277477
4755
lutando contra esses porcos
vermelhos, grandes e gordos,
04:54
which represented the North Koreans'
first leader at the time.
86
282256
3965
que representavam o líder
dos norte-coreanos na época.
05:00
And the effect of hearing
these horrible stories over and over
87
288154
3845
O efeito de ouvir essas histórias
terríveis várias vezes
05:04
instilled one word in a young mind:
88
292710
3701
colocava uma palavra em uma mente jovem:
05:08
"enemy."
89
296435
1193
inimigo.
05:10
And I think at some point,
I dehumanized them,
90
298319
3234
Acho que, em algum momento,
eu os desumanizava,
05:14
and the people of North Korea
became equated
91
302410
4989
e o povo da Coreia do Norte
igualava-se ao governo norte-coreano.
05:19
with the North Korean government.
92
307423
2412
05:23
Now, back to my detention.
93
311401
2543
Agora, de volta à minha prisão.
Era o segundo dia
05:25
It was the second day
94
313968
2153
numa cela.
05:28
of being in a cell.
95
316145
1376
Eu não havia dormido
desde que deixei a fronteira.
05:30
I had not slept
since I was out at the border.
96
318195
3240
05:34
This young guard came to my cell
97
322388
3322
Um guarda jovem veio até a minha cela
e ofereceu um pequeno ovo cozido para mim,
05:37
and offered me this small boiled egg
98
325734
3516
05:41
and said, "This will give you
strength to keep going."
99
329274
3555
e disse: "Isso lhe dará
força para prosseguir".
05:46
Do you know what it is like,
100
334311
2096
Sabem como é
05:49
receiving a small kindness
in the enemy's hand?
101
337296
3602
receber uma pequena gentileza
das mãos do inimigo?
Toda vez que eram gentis comigo,
05:54
Whenever they were kind to me,
I thought the worst case
102
342012
3047
eu pensava que o pior estava
me aguardando depois da gentileza.
05:57
was waiting for me after the kindness.
103
345083
2087
06:01
One officer noticed my nervousness.
104
349257
2854
Um policial notou meu nervosismo.
Ele disse: "Você achava que éramos
todos esses porcos vermelhos?"
06:04
He said, "Did you think
we were all these red pigs?"
105
352717
3853
06:09
referring to the cartoon
that I just showed you.
106
357260
3536
referindo-se ao desenho
que acabei de lhes mostrar.
06:15
Every day was like a psychological battle.
107
363227
3410
Todo dia era como uma batalha psicológica.
O interrogador me fazia sentar
a uma mesa, seis vezes por semana,
06:18
The interrogator had me sit at a table
108
366661
3091
06:21
six days a week
109
369776
1500
06:23
and had me writing down
about my journey, my work,
110
371300
4090
e me fazia escrever várias vezes
sobre minha viagem, meu trabalho,
06:27
over and over until I wrote down
the confession that they wanted to hear.
111
375414
4715
até eu escrever a confissão
que eles queriam.
06:33
After about three months of detention,
112
381268
3187
Depois de quase três meses na prisão,
06:36
the North Korean court sentenced me
113
384479
4862
o tribunal norte-coreano me condenou
06:41
to 12 years in a labor camp.
114
389365
2484
a 12 anos de trabalhos forçados
em um acampamento.
Eu estava em meu quarto
esperando para ser transferida.
06:44
So I was just sitting in my room
to be transferred.
115
392817
2818
06:48
At that time, I really had
nothing else to do,
116
396546
2238
Na época, eu não tinha
mesmo nada para fazer,
então eu prestava atenção
nas duas guardas,
06:50
so I paid attention
to these two female guards
117
398808
2884
e ouvia a conversa delas.
06:53
and listened to what
they were talking about.
118
401716
2346
06:56
Guard A was older,
119
404909
2083
A guarda A era mais velha,
e estudava inglês.
06:59
and she studied English.
120
407016
2457
07:01
She seemed like she came
from an affluent family.
121
409497
3967
Parecia ter vindo de uma família rica.
07:05
She often showed up
with these colorful dresses,
122
413488
2428
Costumava aparecer com vestidos
coloridos, e adorava se exibir.
07:07
and then loved to show off.
123
415940
1543
07:10
And Guard B was the younger one,
124
418240
3321
A guarda B era a mais jovem,
e era realmente uma boa cantora.
07:13
and she was a really good singer.
125
421585
1810
07:16
She loved to sing Celine Dion's
"My Heart Will Go On" --
126
424263
4908
Adorava cantar "My Heart
Will Go On" da Celine Dion,
07:21
sometimes too much.
127
429195
1466
às vezes, até demais.
Ela conseguia me torturar mesmo sem saber.
07:22
She knew just how
to torture me without knowing.
128
430685
3832
07:26
(Laughter)
129
434541
1644
(Risos)
07:28
And this girl spent a lot of time
in the morning to put on makeup,
130
436209
6669
Essa moça passava muito tempo
se maquiando pela manhã,
07:34
like you can see in any young girl's life.
131
442902
3335
como pode-se ver na vida
de qualquer moça jovem.
07:39
And they loved to watch
this Chinese drama,
132
447754
3587
Elas adoravam assistir a dramas chineses,
uma produção de melhor qualidade.
07:43
a better quality production.
133
451365
1786
07:45
I remember Guard B said,
134
453776
2426
Eu me lembro de que a guarda B dizia:
07:49
"I can no longer watch our TV shows
after watching this."
135
457172
3777
"Não consigo mais assistir
a nossos programas de TV depois disso".
07:54
She got scolded
136
462037
1818
Ela foi repreendida
07:55
for degrading her own country's
produced TV shows.
137
463879
4196
por menosprezar os programas de TV
produzidos em seu próprio país.
08:00
Guard B had more
of a free mind than Guard A,
138
468903
3197
A guarda B tinha a mente
mais aberta que a guarda A,
08:04
and she often got scolded by Guard A
whenever she expressed herself.
139
472124
5612
e era muitas vezes repreendida
por ela toda vez que se expressava.
08:10
One day, they invited
all these female colleagues --
140
478321
3392
Um dia, convidaram várias colegas,
08:13
I don't know where they came from --
141
481737
1901
não sei de onde vieram,
08:15
to where I was held,
142
483662
2542
para virem até o local
em que eu estava presa,
08:18
and they invited me
143
486228
1568
e me convidaram para a sala delas
08:19
to their guard room
144
487820
1774
08:21
and asked
145
489618
1585
e perguntaram
08:23
if one-night stands
really happen in the US.
146
491227
3579
se a aventura amorosa de uma noite
acontecia mesmo nos EUA.
08:26
(Laughter)
147
494830
3186
(Risos)
08:30
This is the country where
young couples are not even allowed
148
498040
5055
Esse é o país onde jovens casais
não podem sequer dar as mãos em público.
08:35
to hold hands in public.
149
503119
1680
08:36
I had no idea where they
had gotten this information,
150
504823
2928
Não tinha ideia de onde elas
haviam obtido essa informação,
08:39
but they were shy and giggly
even before I said anything.
151
507775
3577
mas estavam tímidas e risonhas
antes mesmo de eu dizer qualquer coisa.
08:44
I think we all forgot
that I was their prisoner,
152
512128
3859
Acho que todas nós esquecemos
que eu era a prisioneira,
08:48
and it was like going back
to my high school classroom again.
153
516848
3437
e era como voltar a meus tempos
de escola novamente.
08:53
And I learned that these girls also
grew up watching a similar cartoon,
154
521160
5880
Aprendi que aquelas moças também
cresceram vendo um desenho parecido,
08:59
but just propaganda towards
South Korea and the US.
155
527064
5036
mas apenas propaganda
dirigida à Coreia do Sul e aos EUA.
09:04
I started to understand where
these people's anger was coming from.
156
532124
5459
Comecei a entender a origem
da raiva dessas pessoas.
09:09
If these girls grew up
learning that we are enemies,
157
537607
3791
Se aquelas moças cresceram
aprendendo que somos inimigos,
09:13
it was just natural
that they would hate us
158
541422
3221
era natural que elas nos odiassem
exatamente como eu as temia.
09:16
just as I feared them.
159
544667
1829
09:20
But at that moment, we were all just girls
160
548035
3850
Mas, naquele momento,
todas nós éramos apenas moças
09:23
who shared the same interests,
161
551909
1793
que compartilhavam os mesmos interesses,
09:26
beyond our ideologies that separated us.
162
554958
3383
além de nossas ideologias
que nos separavam.
09:31
I shared these stories with my boss
at Current TV at the time
163
559806
4670
Compartilhei essas histórias
com meu chefe da Current TV na época
09:36
after I came home.
164
564500
1410
depois de voltar para casa.
09:37
His first reaction was,
165
565934
2478
A primeira reação dele foi:
09:40
"Euna, have you heard
of Stockholm Syndrome?"
166
568436
2892
"Euna, você já ouviu falar
sobre a síndrome de Estocolmo?"
09:44
Yes, and I clearly remember
167
572884
3427
Sim, e eu me lembro claramente
09:49
the feeling of fear
168
577190
1623
do sentimento de medo e da ameaça,
09:50
and being threatened,
169
578837
1507
09:53
and tension rising up
between me and the interrogator
170
581737
3805
e da tensão crescente
entre mim e o interrogador
quando conversávamos sobre política.
09:57
when we talked about politics.
171
585566
1969
09:59
There definitely was a wall
that we couldn't climb over.
172
587559
4012
Com certeza, havia um muro
intransponível entre nós.
10:04
But we were able to see
each other as human beings
173
592348
4048
Mas fomos capazes de nos ver
umas às outras como seres humanos
quando conversamos sobre família,
10:08
when we talked about family,
174
596420
2401
10:10
everyday life,
175
598845
1577
vida cotidiana,
10:12
the importance of the future
for our children.
176
600446
2911
e a importância do futuro
para nossas crianças.
10:18
It was about a month before I came home.
177
606686
2780
Cerca de um mês
antes de voltar para casa,
fiquei muito doente.
10:21
I got really sick.
178
609490
1332
10:23
Guard B stopped by my room to say goodbye,
179
611632
4091
A guarda B passou em meu quarto
para se despedir,
porque estava saindo
do centro de detenção.
10:27
because she was leaving
the detention center.
180
615747
2829
10:33
She made sure that no one watched us,
181
621048
2947
Ela se certificou de que ninguém
nos observava ou nos ouvia,
10:36
no one heard us,
182
624019
1584
e disse silenciosamente:
10:37
and quietly said,
183
625627
1555
"Espero que você melhore
e volte para sua família em breve".
10:39
"I hope you get better
184
627206
1830
10:41
and go back to your family soon."
185
629060
1901
10:45
It is these people --
186
633312
1631
São essas pessoas
10:47
the officer who brought me his coat,
187
635927
2557
o policial que me trouxe o casaco dele,
10:51
the guard who offered me a boiled egg,
188
639405
3619
o guarda que me ofereceu um ovo cozido,
10:55
these female guards who asked me
about dating life in the US --
189
643048
4730
essas guardas que me perguntaram
sobre a vida amorosa nos EUA,
10:59
they are the ones
that I remember of North Korea:
190
647802
4573
são deles que me lembro
da Coreia do Norte:
11:04
humans just like us.
191
652399
2423
humanos, assim como nós.
11:07
North Koreans and I were not
ambassadors of our countries,
192
655690
5499
Os norte-coreanos e eu não éramos
embaixadores de nossos países,
11:13
but I believe that we were representing
193
661213
3585
mas acredito que estávamos
representando a raça humana.
11:16
the human race.
194
664822
1505
11:20
Now I'm back home and back to my life.
195
668104
2882
Agora voltei para casa e para minha vida.
11:24
The memory of these people
has blurred as time has passed.
196
672636
4277
A lembrança daquelas pessoas
ficou obscura com o passar do tempo.
11:29
And I'm in this place
197
677800
1436
E estou neste lugar onde há notícias
sobre a Coreia do Norte provocando os EUA.
11:31
where I read and hear
about North Korea provoking the US.
198
679260
4297
11:36
I realized how easy it is
199
684072
2375
Percebi como é fácil
vê-los como inimigos novamente.
11:39
to see them as an enemy again.
200
687131
2054
11:43
But I have to keep reminding myself
that when I was over there,
201
691101
5189
Mas preciso continuar me lembrando
de que, quando estive lá,
11:49
I was able to see humanity
202
697655
2914
pude ver a humanidade
11:52
over hatred
203
700593
1152
acima do ódio
nos olhos de meu inimigo.
11:53
in my enemy's eyes.
204
701769
1591
11:56
Thank you.
205
704709
1467
Obrigada.
(Aplausos)
11:58
(Applause)
206
706200
5134
Translated by Maurício Kakuei Tanaka
Reviewed by Maricene Crus

▲Back to top

ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Euna Lee - Journalist
Euna Lee strives to be a voice for the voiceless and a window for those with no access to outside information.

Why you should listen

A seasoned journalist with more than years of experience, Euna Lee is a television executive producer for Voice of America's Korean Service (VOA). Prior to VOA, she worked for Fusion media, AJ+ and Al Jazeera TV networks.

Lee’s name became widely known after she was captured by the North Korean regime while covering a human trafficking story for Current TV, a cable network co-founded by former Vice President Al Gore. She wrote a memoir, The World is Bigger Now, about her experience while detained in North Korea for 140 days.

Lee has received various awards for her fearless work, including McGill Medal by University of Georgia and Glamour magazine's Women of the Year Award in 2009. At VOA, she strives to be a voice for the voiceless and a window for those with no access to outside information. Born and raised in South Korea, Lee holds a master’s degree in journalism from Columbia University.

More profile about the speaker
Euna Lee | Speaker | TED.com

Data provided by TED.

This site was created in May 2015 and the last update was on January 12, 2020. It will no longer be updated.

We are currently creating a new site called "eng.lish.video" and would be grateful if you could access it.

If you have any questions or suggestions, please feel free to write comments in your language on the contact form.

Privacy Policy

Developer's Blog

Buy Me A Coffee