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Vincent Cochetel: I was held hostage for 317 days. Here's what I thought about…
文森特. 科舍泰尔: 被囚禁的317天
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文森特. 科舍泰尔是联合馆难民署派去车臣的人道主义救援人员，在1998年他被抓作人质囚禁317天。 这是他第一次叙述了他的经历——在黑暗中生活，困在地牢，绑在床边，以及和敌人间意料之外的对话。他用充满力量和诗意的语言解释了为什么如今还继续做他的工作。自从2000年以来，针对救援人员袭击案件的数量已经番两番了——他想知道这样的上升趋势对世界会造成什么影响。
Vincent Cochetel - Humanitarian
Vincent Cochetel is the Director of the Bureau for Europe at the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). Full bio
Vincent Cochetel is the Director of the Bureau for Europe at the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
I cannot forget them.
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我永远忘不了他们
00:15
Their names were Aslan, Alik, Andrei,
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他们的名字是 Aslan、Alik、Andrei
00:20
Fernanda, Fred, Galina, Gunnhild,
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Fernanda、Fred、Galina、Gunnhild
00:25
Hans, Ingeborg, Matti, Natalya,
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Hans、Ingeborg、Matti、Natalya
00:30
Nancy, Sheryl, Usman, Zarema,
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Nancy、Sheryl、Usman、Zarema
00:35
and the list is longer.
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名单还很长
00:38
For many, their existence,
their humanity,
their humanity,
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他们的存在、人性被简化成数据，
00:41
has been reduced to statistics,
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他们的存在、人性被简化成数据，
00:45
coldly recorded as "security incidents."
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无情地被归档为“安全事故”
00:49
For me, they were colleagues
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对于我来说，他们是我的同事
00:51
belonging to that community
of humanitarian aid workers
of humanitarian aid workers
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共属人道援助工作者的社群
00:54
that tried to bring a bit of comfort
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他们尽最大的努力
00:57
to the victims of the wars
in Chechnya in the '90s.
in Chechnya in the '90s.
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帮助饱受90年代战乱的车臣人民
01:01
They were nurses, logisticians,
shelter experts,
shelter experts,
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他们是护士、后勤人员、防护专家
01:06
paralegals, interpreters.
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律师助手、翻译人员
01:08
And for this service, they were murdered,
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因为作了这些贡献，他们被杀害了。
01:13
their families torn apart,
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他们的家人伤透了心
01:15
and their story largely forgotten.
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然而他们的故事却被人们遗忘了
01:18
No one was ever sentenced
for these crimes.
for these crimes.
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那些罪犯没有受到惩罚
01:22
I cannot forget them.
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我无法忘记他们
01:25
They live in me somehow,
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他们与我如影随形
01:27
their memories giving me
meaning every day.
meaning every day.
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他们留下的记忆让我每天都受到启迪
01:30
But they are also haunting
the dark street of my mind.
the dark street of my mind.
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他们的身影在我的脑海中久久挥之不去
01:34
As humanitarian aid workers,
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作为人道主义援助工作者
01:36
they made the choice
to be at the side of the victim,
to be at the side of the victim,
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他们毅然地站在受难者的一方
01:40
to provide some assistance,
some comfort, some protection,
some comfort, some protection,
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给予难民们帮助、温暖和保护
01:44
but when they needed
protection themselves,
protection themselves,
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然而当他们需要保护时
01:47
it wasn't there.
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却没有人伸出援手
01:49
When you see the headlines
of your newspaper these days
of your newspaper these days
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时至今日，当你在看报纸头条
01:52
with the war in Iraq or in Syria --
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看见伊拉克、叙利亚在打战的同时
01:55
aid worker abducted, hostage executed --
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也看到援助工作者被劫持、
被当做人质处死
被当做人质处死
02:00
but who were they?
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但是他们是谁？
02:02
Why were they there?
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为什么在那里？
02:04
What motivated them?
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他们的动机是什么？
02:06
How did we become
so indifferent to these crimes?
so indifferent to these crimes?
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我们为何渐渐对这些犯罪变得麻木？
02:09
This is why I am here today with you.
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这就是为什么我今天要站在这里
02:13
We need to find better ways
to remember them.
to remember them.
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我们必须以更好的方式来铭记他们
02:16
We also need to explain the key values
to which they dedicated their lives.
to which they dedicated their lives.
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我们必须阐述那些
他们一生追求的价值理念
他们一生追求的价值理念
02:22
We also need to demand justice.
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我们也要争取应有的正义
02:28
When in '96 I was sent
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早在1996年的时候
02:29
by the United Nations High Commissioner
for Refugees to the North Caucasus,
for Refugees to the North Caucasus,
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我被联合国难民署派到北高加索
02:33
I knew some of the risks.
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我知道那里很危险
02:35
Five colleagues had been killed,
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5名同事已经被杀害了
02:37
three had been seriously injured,
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3名被重伤
02:39
seven had already been taken hostage.
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7名被抓做人质
02:42
So we were careful.
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所以我们很小心
02:44
We were using armored
vehicles, decoy cars,
vehicles, decoy cars,
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我们使用武装车、伪装车
02:48
changing patterns of travel,
changing homes,
changing homes,
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更改行程路线，更改住址
02:51
all sorts of security measures.
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采用了各种各样的安全措施
02:55
Yet on a cold winter night
of January '98, it was my turn.
of January '98, it was my turn.
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但98年1月的一个冷冬晚上，
还是轮到我了。
还是轮到我了。
03:01
When I entered my flat
in Vladikavkaz with a guard,
in Vladikavkaz with a guard,
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我和我的守卫回到
在弗拉季高加索的住所时
在弗拉季高加索的住所时
03:05
we were surrounded by armed men.
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我们被武装人员包围了
03:08
They took the guard,
they put him on the floor,
they put him on the floor,
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他们拿下了守卫
把他打倒在地
把他打倒在地
03:10
they beat him up in front of me,
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他们在我面前暴打他
03:13
tied him, dragged him away.
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捆绑他、把他拖走了
03:17
I was handcuffed, blindfolded,
and forced to kneel,
and forced to kneel,
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我双手被铐，双眼被蒙，被迫下跪
03:22
as the silencer of a gun
pressed against my neck.
pressed against my neck.
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手枪的消声器始终抵住我的咽喉
03:26
When it happens to you,
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当这一切发生在你身上的时候，
03:27
there is no time for thinking,
no time for praying.
no time for praying.
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你没有时间思考或者祈祷。
03:32
My brain went on automatic,
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我的大脑不受控制，
03:34
rewinding quickly
the life I'd just left behind.
the life I'd just left behind.
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脑海中开始快速回放我的一生。
03:39
It took me long minutes to figure out
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我很久后才发现，
03:41
that those masked men there
were not there to kill me,
were not there to kill me,
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那些蒙面人并不是来杀我的
03:45
but that someone, somewhere,
had ordered my kidnapping.
had ordered my kidnapping.
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而是某些人指派他们来绑架我
03:50
Then a process of dehumanization
started that day.
started that day.
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然后，惨无人道的生活就开始了。
03:54
I was no more than just a commodity.
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我变成了一件商品。
04:01
I normally don't talk about this,
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通常我不对别人提起这些，
04:03
but I'd like to share a bit with you
some of those 317 days of captivity.
some of those 317 days of captivity.
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但是今天我想和你们分享
被囚禁317天的经历。
被囚禁317天的经历。
04:08
I was kept in an underground cellar,
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我被囚禁在一个地下室里
04:11
total darkness,
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伸手不见五指
04:13
for 23 hours and 45 minutes every day,
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如此渡过每日的23小时45分钟
04:17
and then the guards
would come, normally two.
would come, normally two.
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通常两个守卫会过来
04:20
They would bring a big piece of bread,
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带一大块面包
04:23
a bowl of soup, and a candle.
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一碗汤和一支蜡烛
04:27
That candle would burn for 15 minutes,
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蜡烛会燃烧15分钟
04:31
15 minutes of precious light,
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15分钟珍贵的光明
04:35
and then they would take it away,
and I returned to darkness.
and I returned to darkness.
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然后他们就会把它拿走
我又陷入了黑暗
我又陷入了黑暗
04:41
I was chained by a metal cable to my bed.
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我被铁链锁在床架上
04:44
I could do only four small steps.
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活动范围只有四小步
04:48
I always dreamt of the fifth one.
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我总是渴望可以再多走第五步
04:52
And no TV, no radio,
no newspaper, no one to talk to.
no newspaper, no one to talk to.
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那里没有电视、没有广播、
没有报纸、没有谈话对象
没有报纸、没有谈话对象
04:56
I had no towel, no soap, no toilet paper,
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没有毛巾、没有肥皂、没有厕纸
05:01
just two metal buckets open,
one for water, for one waste.
one for water, for one waste.
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只有两个敞口铁桶，
一个载水，一个用来排泄
一个载水，一个用来排泄
05:09
Can you imagine that mock execution
can be a pastime for guards
can be a pastime for guards
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你能想象吗？
模拟处决可以是守卫的消遣
模拟处决可以是守卫的消遣
05:14
when they are sadistic
or when they are just bored or drunk?
or when they are just bored or drunk?
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要是守卫是虐待狂，
甚至仅是无聊、喝醉酒
甚至仅是无聊、喝醉酒
05:21
We are breaking my nerves very slowly.
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日子过得异常缓慢
05:25
Isolation and darkness
are particularly difficult to describe.
are particularly difficult to describe.
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孤立和黑暗尤其难以描述
05:29
How do you describe nothing?
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你怎么描述这些空无？
05:31
There are no words for the depths
of loneliness I reached
of loneliness I reached
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我所忍受的孤独程度
是无法用言语形容的
是无法用言语形容的
05:34
in that very thin border
between sanity and madness.
between sanity and madness.
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在清醒和疯狂的边缘徘徊
05:42
In the darkness, sometimes
I played imaginary games of checkers.
I played imaginary games of checkers.
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在黑暗中，我有时在脑海中玩西洋跳棋
05:47
I would start with the black,
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我先走黑子，
05:49
play with the white,
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然后走白子
05:51
back to the black
trying to trick the other side.
trying to trick the other side.
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然后再走黑子，试图和白子对弈
05:55
I don't play checkers anymore.
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现在我不玩跳棋了
05:58
I was tormented by the thoughts of my
family and my colleague, the guard, Edik.
family and my colleague, the guard, Edik.
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一想到家人、同僚、我的守卫Edik，
我内心就饱受煎熬
我内心就饱受煎熬
06:05
I didn't know what had happened to him.
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我不知道Edik 怎么样了
06:07
I was trying not to think,
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我尝试不去想这些
06:10
I tried to fill up my time
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同时又尝试打发时间
06:11
by doing all sorts of physical
exercise on the spot.
exercise on the spot.
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在原地做不同的体能运动
06:15
I tried to pray, I tried all sorts
of memorization games.
of memorization games.
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我试图祈祷，玩各种记忆力游戏
06:21
But darkness also creates images
and thoughts that are not normal.
and thoughts that are not normal.
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然而黑暗总是唤起
一些不寻常的画面和想法
一些不寻常的画面和想法
06:25
One part of your brain wants you
to resist, to shout, to cry,
to resist, to shout, to cry,
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脑海中的一个声音告诉你
要反抗、呐喊、哭泣。
要反抗、呐喊、哭泣。
06:31
and the other part of the brain
orders you to shut up
orders you to shut up
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另一个声音却命令你闭嘴
06:35
and just go through it.
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默默地忍受。
06:37
It's a constant internal debate;
there is no one to arbitrate.
there is no one to arbitrate.
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这是一场永无止境的内心战斗,
没有人来仲裁
没有人来仲裁
06:43
Once a guard came to me,
very aggressively, and he told me,
very aggressively, and he told me,
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一次一名守卫走过来，
相当凶恶，他告诉我，
相当凶恶，他告诉我，
06:48
"Today you're going to kneel
and beg for your food."
and beg for your food."
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“今天你要跪着来乞求你的食物。”
06:52
I wasn't in a good mood,
so I insulted him.
so I insulted him.
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我当时心情不好，于是就骂他
06:55
I insulted his mother,
I insulted his ancestors.
I insulted his ancestors.
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我侮辱了他的母亲和祖先
06:58
The consequence was moderate:
he threw the food into my waste.
he threw the food into my waste.
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结果不算太坏：
他把我的食物扔进排泄物的桶内。
他把我的食物扔进排泄物的桶内。
07:03
The day after he came back
with the same demand.
with the same demand.
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第二天他还是同样的要求
07:06
He got the same answer,
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他从我这得到了相同的回答
07:09
which had the same consequence.
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于是又是一样的结局
07:13
Four days later,
the body was full of pain.
the body was full of pain.
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4天之后，痛苦蔓延到了我的全身
07:17
I didn't know hunger hurt so much
when you have so little.
when you have so little.
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我从来不知道饥饿是那么地痛苦
07:21
So when the guards came down,
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所以当那些卫兵再次来的时候
07:28
I knelt.
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我跪下了
07:31
I begged for my food.
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我哀求要食物
07:34
Submission was the only way for me
to make it to another candle.
to make it to another candle.
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屈服是我生存的唯一方法
07:41
After my kidnapping,
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被绑架之后
07:43
I was transferred
from North Ossetia to Chechnya,
from North Ossetia to Chechnya,
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我从北奥塞梯被转移到车臣
07:46
three days of slow travel
in the trunks of different cars,
in the trunks of different cars,
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在不同车的后备箱里辗转了三天
07:50
and upon arrival, I was interrogated
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抵达当天，我就被审讯了
07:52
for 11 days by a guy called Ruslan.
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这个过程整整持续了11天
审讯我的那个人叫Rusian
审讯我的那个人叫Rusian
07:56
The routine was always the same:
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审问过程总是那样：
07:58
a bit more light, 45 minutes.
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光明多了一点，45分钟。
08:00
He would come down to the cellar,
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他会下到地牢
08:02
he would ask the guards
to tie me on the chair,
to tie me on the chair,
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让卫兵把我绑在椅子上
08:05
and he would turn on the music loud.
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然后把音乐开得很响
08:08
And then he would yell questions.
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之后他会大声对我吼那些问题
08:11
He would scream. He would beat me.
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他会大叫，会打我。
08:14
I'll spare you the details.
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细节我就不对你们多说了
08:16
There are many questions
I could not understand,
I could not understand,
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有很多问题我无法理解，
08:18
and there are some questions
I did not want to understand.
I did not want to understand.
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还有些问题我不愿意懂。
08:24
The length of the interrogation
was the duration of the tape:
was the duration of the tape:
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审讯的时间就是磁带的长度
08:28
15 songs, 45 minutes.
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15首歌，45分钟
08:31
I would always long for the last song.
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我总是渴望最后一首歌快到来
08:34
On one day, one night in that cellar,
I don't know what it was,
I don't know what it was,
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某晚在地窖，还是某白天，
我分不清是白天还是黑夜，
我分不清是白天还是黑夜，
08:38
I heard a child crying above my head,
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头顶传来一个孩子的哭声
08:41
a boy, maybe two or three years old.
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一个男孩，大概2、3岁
08:44
Footsteps, confusion, people running.
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脚步声，一片混乱，
人们跑动的声音
人们跑动的声音
08:48
So when Ruslan came the day after,
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第二天当Rusian过来的时候
08:51
before he put the first question to me,
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在他提问之前
08:54
I asked him, "How is your son today?
Is he feeling better?"
Is he feeling better?"
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我问他，“ 你儿子今天怎样了?
他今天好点了吗？”
他今天好点了吗？”
08:57
Ruslan was taken by surprise.
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Rusian 很惊讶
09:00
He was furious that the guards
may have leaked some details
may have leaked some details
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他非常生气，以为这里的守卫
泄露他的私人生活
泄露他的私人生活
09:03
about his private life.
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他非常生气，以为这里的守卫
泄露他的私人生活
泄露他的私人生活
09:06
I kept talking about NGOs
supplying medicines to local clinics
supplying medicines to local clinics
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我不停地对他说，非政府组织为本地诊所
提供的药物
提供的药物
09:10
that may help his son to get better.
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也许可以帮助他儿子康复
09:13
And we talked about education,
we talked about families.
we talked about families.
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然后我们谈教育
我们谈家庭
我们谈家庭
09:17
He talked to me about his children.
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他跟我讲他的孩子
09:19
I talked to him about my daughters.
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我跟他讲我的女儿
09:21
And then he'd talk about guns,
about cars, about women,
about cars, about women,
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然后他要谈枪支、谈汽车、谈女人
09:25
and I had to talk about guns,
about cars, about women.
about cars, about women.
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所以我也得谈枪支、谈汽车、谈女人
09:29
And we talked until
the last song on the tape.
the last song on the tape.
155
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我们一直聊到最后一首歌
09:33
Ruslan was the most brutal man I ever met.
156
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Rusian是我见过最残暴的人
09:38
He did not touch me anymore.
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他没有再碰我了
09:42
He did not ask any other questions.
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也不问其他问题了
09:44
I was no longer just a commodity.
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我不再是一件商品了
09:48
Two days after, I was transferred
to another place.
to another place.
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两天之后，我被转移到另外一个地方
09:53
There, a guard came to me,
very close -- it was quite unusual --
very close -- it was quite unusual --
161
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5106
在那里，一个守卫走到我身边，
相当靠近——平常不会这样——
相当靠近——平常不会这样——
09:58
and he said with
a very soft voice, he said,
a very soft voice, he said,
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他用很温和的声音和我说
10:02
"I'd like to thank you
163
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我想感谢你，
10:04
for the assistance your organization
provided my family
provided my family
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4040
因为我们在达吉斯坦流离失所时
你的组织向我家人提供的帮助
10:08
when we were displaced
in nearby Dagestan."
in nearby Dagestan."
165
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4049
10:14
What could I possibly reply?
166
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我该怎么回答他？
10:17
It was so painful.
It was like a blade in the belly.
It was like a blade in the belly.
167
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4776
这太痛苦了，这就像是腹部被捅了一刀
10:22
It took me weeks of internal thinking
to try to reconcile
to try to reconcile
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3344
我花了好几个星期来消化这件事情
10:26
the good reasons we had
to assist that family
to assist that family
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我们帮助他的家庭的初衷是好的，
10:29
and the soldier of fortune he became.
170
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然而他却变成了雇佣兵
10:32
He was young, he was shy.
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2113
他很年轻，很害羞
10:34
I never saw his face.
172
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我从来没见过他的脸
10:36
He probably meant well.
173
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他用意应该是好的。
10:39
But in those 15 seconds,
174
627315
2392
但是在那15秒钟内 ，
10:41
he made me question everything we did,
175
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3715
他让我开始质疑我们做得所有事情
10:45
all the sacrifices.
176
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2391
所有的牺牲。
10:47
He made me think also how they see us.
177
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3553
他让我开始思考
他们是如何看待我们的。
他们是如何看待我们的。
10:51
Until then, I had assumed
that they know why we are there
that they know why we are there
178
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2670
那之前，我一直认为他们知道
为什么我们在那里
为什么我们在那里
10:54
and what we are doing.
179
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2879
我们在做什么
10:56
One cannot assume this.
180
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2853
但大家不能这样以为
10:59
Well, explaining why we do this
is not that easy,
is not that easy,
181
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4252
解释我们的行动目的，并不容易，
11:04
even to our closest relatives.
182
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1792
即便是对我们最亲的亲人。
11:07
We are not perfect, we are not superior,
183
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3397
我们不是完美的，也不高人一等
11:10
we are not the world's fire brigade,
184
658459
2476
我们不是世界救火队
11:12
we are not superheroes,
185
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2114
不是超级英雄，
11:15
we don't stop wars,
186
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1672
也不能阻止战争。
11:16
we know that humanitarian response is not
a substitute for political solution.
a substitute for political solution.
187
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5384
我们知道人道主义措施
无法替代政治解决方法
无法替代政治解决方法
11:22
Yet we do this because one life matters.
188
670105
4458
但我们仍然坚持工作，
因为每条生命都很宝贵。
因为每条生命都很宝贵。
11:26
Sometimes that's the only
difference you make --
difference you make --
189
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2253
很多时候，你做的贡献
只是帮助了一个人
只是帮助了一个人
11:28
one individual, one family,
a small group of individuals --
a small group of individuals --
190
676816
3320
一个家庭或者一小部分人
11:32
and it matters.
191
680136
1974
然而这是不可忽视的
11:34
When you have a tsunami,
an earthquake or a typhoon,
an earthquake or a typhoon,
192
682110
2857
当你遭受了海啸，地震或者台风
11:36
you see teams of rescuers
coming from all over the world,
coming from all over the world,
193
684967
4108
你能看见从世界各地来的救援队
11:41
searching for survivors for weeks.
194
689075
3042
连续数周搜寻幸存者
11:44
Why? Nobody questions this.
195
692117
2554
为什么？没有人问过这个问题
11:46
Every life matters,
196
694671
2113
每个生命都是重要的
11:48
or every life should matter.
197
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4226
或者说，每条生命都应该很宝贵。
11:53
This is the same for us
when we help refugees,
when we help refugees,
198
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2925
出于同一原因，我们帮助难民
11:55
people displaced within their country
by conflict, or stateless persons,
by conflict, or stateless persons,
199
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4860
帮助由于冲突而流离失所的人，
无论他们有没有国籍
无论他们有没有国籍
12:01
I know many people,
200
709595
1795
我知道许多人
12:03
when they are confronted
by overwhelming suffering,
by overwhelming suffering,
201
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3008
当他们面对不能承受之苦时，
12:06
they feel powerless and they stop there.
202
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3771
会感觉无能为力，然后袖手旁观
12:10
It's a pity, because there are
so many ways people can help.
so many ways people can help.
203
718169
3877
这很遗憾，因为人们
能给予帮助的方式有很多
能给予帮助的方式有很多
12:14
We don't stop with that feeling.
204
722046
1981
我们并不会因为这种无力感而停止
12:16
We try to do whatever we can
to provide some assistance,
to provide some assistance,
205
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2651
我们尝试尽己所能
12:18
some protection, some comfort.
206
726678
2654
去提供一些帮助、保护和安乐
12:21
We have to.
207
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1761
我们必须这么做
12:23
We can't do otherwise.
208
731093
1750
我们别无选择
12:24
It's what makes us feel,
I don't know, simply human.
I don't know, simply human.
209
732843
5354
这能让我们感觉…感觉到纯粹的人性
12:30
That's a picture of me
the day of my release.
the day of my release.
210
738197
4119
这是我被释放那天的照片
12:34
Months after my release,
I met the then-French prime minister.
I met the then-French prime minister.
211
742316
4342
几个月之后，法国总理接见了我
12:38
The second thing he told me:
212
746658
2042
然后他告诉我：
12:40
"You were totally irresponsible
to go to the North Caucasus.
to go to the North Caucasus.
213
748700
3531
“你去北高加索，实在是完全不负责任
12:44
You don't know how many
problems you've created for us."
problems you've created for us."
214
752231
3906
你不知道你给我们带来了多少麻烦”
12:50
It was a short meeting.
215
758017
1835
会面很简短
12:51
(Laughter)
216
759852
1719
（笑声）
12:54
I think helping people
in danger is responsible.
in danger is responsible.
217
762661
4574
我认为帮助陷于危险的人是一种责任
12:59
In that war, that nobody
seriously wanted to stop,
seriously wanted to stop,
218
767235
4528
那场战争，没有人想要真正停战，
13:03
and we have many of these today,
219
771763
2345
今天我们有很多这样的战争
13:06
bringing some assistance to people in need
and a bit of protection
and a bit of protection
220
774108
4500
帮助那些需要的人们
13:10
was not just an act of humanity,
221
778608
1909
不仅仅是出于人道主义
13:12
it was making a real difference
for the people.
for the people.
222
780517
2902
这是为人们提高切实的帮助
13:15
Why could he not understand this?
223
783419
3251
为什么他不能理解？
13:18
We have a responsibility to try.
224
786670
1927
我们有责任去尝试
13:20
You've heard about that concept:
Responsibility to Protect.
Responsibility to Protect.
225
788597
3834
大家都听过这个理念: 保护的责任
13:24
Outcomes may depend
on various parameters.
on various parameters.
226
792431
4081
成果可能取决于不同的标准
13:28
We may even fail,
but there is worse than failing --
but there is worse than failing --
227
796512
3857
我们甚至可能会失败，
但比失败更糟糕的是：
但比失败更糟糕的是：
13:32
it's not even trying when we can.
228
800369
2751
当我们可以帮助的时候，
却没有去尝试
却没有去尝试
13:36
Well, if you are met this way,
if you sign up for this sort of job,
if you sign up for this sort of job,
229
804441
3875
如果有一天你投身于这类工作
13:40
your life is going to be full
of joy and sadness,
of joy and sadness,
230
808316
4638
你的生活将会充满了喜悦和伤悲
13:44
because there are a lot of people
we cannot help,
we cannot help,
231
812954
2679
因为有很多人我们无法帮助
13:47
a lot of people we cannot protect,
a lot of people we did not save.
a lot of people we did not save.
232
815633
3924
很多人我们无法保护
很多人我们没有拯救
很多人我们没有拯救
13:51
I call them my ghost,
233
819557
2243
我把他们称之为我的幽灵
13:53
and by having witnessed
their suffering from close,
their suffering from close,
234
821800
2957
在近距离见证了他们的痛苦
13:56
you take a bit
of that suffering on yourself.
of that suffering on yourself.
235
824757
4147
你也感同身受
14:01
Many young humanitarian workers
236
829304
2666
许多年轻的人道主义援助工作者
14:03
go through their first experience
with a lot of bitterness.
with a lot of bitterness.
237
831970
3018
第一次经历都是充满了苦痛
14:06
They are thrown into situations
where they are witness,
where they are witness,
238
834988
2972
他们不得不目睹一些状况
14:09
but they are powerless
to bring any change.
to bring any change.
239
837960
3112
但却对状况无能为力
14:13
They have to learn to accept it
240
841072
2507
他们必须学会接受这一切
14:15
and gradually turn this
into positive energy.
into positive energy.
241
843579
3379
并且逐渐把这转化成正能量
14:18
It's difficult.
242
846958
1449
这很困难
14:20
Many don't succeed,
243
848407
2538
许多人无法成功
14:22
but for those who do,
there is no other job like this.
there is no other job like this.
244
850945
4008
但是那些成功通过试炼的人，
这是一份无与伦比的工作。
这是一份无与伦比的工作。
14:26
You can see the difference
you make every day.
you make every day.
245
854953
3780
每天的努力都能带来不同
人道主义救援工作者
知道他们工作的危险性质
知道他们工作的危险性质
14:31
Humanitarian aid workers
know the risk they are taking
know the risk they are taking
246
859643
3162
14:34
in conflict areas or
in post-conflict environments,
in post-conflict environments,
247
862805
4912
在有冲突的地区或者战后地区
14:39
yet our life, our job, is becoming
increasingly life-threatening,
increasingly life-threatening,
248
867717
6712
我们的生活和工作变得越来越危险
14:46
and the sanctity of our life is fading.
249
874429
3182
而且我们生命的神圣正在消退
14:51
Do you know that since the millennium,
250
879441
2659
大家知道吗？自从千禧年以来，
14:54
the number of attacks on humanitarian
aid workers has tripled?
aid workers has tripled?
251
882100
4319
被袭击的救援人员人数
已经上升两倍
已经上升两倍
14:59
2013 broke new records:
252
887409
2632
2013年创造了新纪录
15:03
155 colleagues killed,
253
891111
3272
155个同僚被杀害，
15:06
171 seriously wounded,
254
894383
3134
171个重伤
15:09
134 abducted.
255
897517
3458
134个被绑架
15:13
So many broken lives.
256
901375
3803
破碎的生命如此之多
15:17
Until the beginning of the civil war
in Somalia in the late '80s,
in Somalia in the late '80s,
257
905178
5202
80年代后期索马里内战之前，
15:22
humanitarian aid workers
were sometimes victims
were sometimes victims
258
910380
4110
有时人道主义援助工作者会成为
我们所说的间接伤害的受害者，
我们所说的间接伤害的受害者，
15:26
of what we call collateral damages,
259
914490
1997
有时人道主义援助工作者会成为
我们所说的间接伤害的受害者，
我们所说的间接伤害的受害者，
15:28
but by and large we were not
the target of these attacks.
the target of these attacks.
260
916487
3715
但我们绝对不是袭击的目标
15:32
This has changed.
261
920202
1554
然而这已经变了。
15:33
Look at this picture.
262
921756
1276
看看这张图片。
15:35
Baghdad, August 2003:
263
923032
2834
巴格达，2003年8月
15:37
24 colleagues were killed.
264
925866
2765
24个同僚被杀
15:40
Gone are the days when
a U.N. blue flag or a Red Cross
a U.N. blue flag or a Red Cross
265
928631
3526
被联合国或者红十字会保护的那些日子
15:44
would automatically protect us.
266
932157
3776
已经一去不复返了。
15:47
Criminal groups and some political groups
267
935933
3262
犯罪集团以及一些政治集团
15:51
have cross-fertilized
over the last 20 years,
over the last 20 years,
268
939195
2856
在过去的20多年内，互相勾结壮大
15:54
and they've created these sort of hybrids
269
942051
3135
创造出我们无法与之沟通的
某种杂交团体
某种杂交团体
15:57
with whom we have no way of communicating.
270
945186
2866
创造出我们无法与之沟通的
某种杂交团体
某种杂交团体
16:00
Humanitarian principles are tested,
questioned, and often ignored,
questioned, and often ignored,
271
948052
5374
人道主义原则受到挑战、质疑，
甚至很多时候被无视
甚至很多时候被无视
16:05
but perhaps more importantly,
we have abandoned the search for justice.
we have abandoned the search for justice.
272
953426
4886
但是更重要的是，
我们放弃了追求正义。
我们放弃了追求正义。
16:10
There seems to be
no consequence whatsoever
no consequence whatsoever
273
958312
3220
攻击救援人员
16:13
for attacks against
humanitarian aid workers.
humanitarian aid workers.
274
961532
3465
似乎再也不会带来什么后果
16:16
After my release, I was told
not to seek any form of justice.
not to seek any form of justice.
275
964997
4360
被释放之后，我被告知
不要寻求任何形式的正义
不要寻求任何形式的正义
16:21
It won't do you any good,
that's what I was told.
that's what I was told.
276
969357
3227
”这对你没好处“
人们对我这么说。
人们对我这么说。
16:24
Plus, you're going to put in danger
the life of other colleagues.
the life of other colleagues.
277
972584
4089
”也会让你的同僚陷入危险。“
16:29
It took me years to see the sentencing
278
977723
3161
花了很多年，我才看到
16:32
of three people associated
with my kidnapping,
with my kidnapping,
279
980884
4291
与我绑架案相关的三个人被判刑
16:37
but this was the exception.
280
985175
2536
这还是一个例外
16:39
There was no justice for any
of the humanitarian aid workers
of the humanitarian aid workers
281
987711
4519
在95年到99年期间，
很多被杀害或绑架的工作人员
很多被杀害或绑架的工作人员
16:44
killed or abducted in Chechnya
between '95 and '99,
between '95 and '99,
282
992230
4288
没有得到应有的公道
16:48
and it's the same all over the world.
283
996518
2628
全世界都是这样
16:52
This is unacceptable.
284
1000436
2147
这是不能接受的
16:54
This is inexcusable.
285
1002583
1811
这是不能容忍的
16:56
Attacks on humanitarian aid workers
are war crimes in international law.
are war crimes in international law.
286
1004394
4713
在国际法中，
袭击人道主义救援人员是战争罪行
袭击人道主义救援人员是战争罪行
17:01
Those crimes should not go unpunished.
287
1009107
3088
这些罪孽不能饶恕
17:04
We must end this cycle of impunity.
288
1012195
2740
我们必须终止有罪不惩的循环
17:06
We must consider that those attacks
against humanitarian aid workers
against humanitarian aid workers
289
1014935
3831
我们必须将袭击人道主义援助人员
视为对人道主义的袭击
视为对人道主义的袭击
17:10
are attacks against humanity itself.
290
1018766
3553
我们必须将袭击人道主义援助人员
视为对人道主义的袭击
视为对人道主义的袭击
17:14
That makes me furious.
291
1022319
3625
这样的袭击让我很愤怒
17:18
I know I'm very lucky
compared to the refugees I work for.
compared to the refugees I work for.
292
1026274
4714
我知道，比起工作中的难民
我已相当幸运。
我已相当幸运。
17:24
I don't know what it is to have seen
my whole town destroyed.
my whole town destroyed.
293
1032414
3627
看见自己的家乡被完全毁灭
我不知道会有何感想。
我不知道会有何感想。
17:28
I don't know what it is to have seen
my relatives shot in front of me.
my relatives shot in front of me.
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看见自己的亲人在自己面前被射死
我不知道会有何感想。
我不知道会有何感想。
17:32
I don't know what it is to lose
the protection of my country.
the protection of my country.
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看见自己失去国家的保护
我不知道会有何感想。
我不知道会有何感想。
17:36
I also know that I'm very lucky
compared to other hostages.
compared to other hostages.
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我知道比起其他人质
我已经很幸运了
我已经很幸运了
17:40
Four days before my eventful release,
four hostages were beheaded
four hostages were beheaded
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在我被释放的四天前，
四名人质被砍头了
四名人质被砍头了
17:46
a few miles away from where
I was kept in captivity.
I was kept in captivity.
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仅在我牢房的几英里之外
17:50
Why them?
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为什么是他们？
17:52
Why am I here today?
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为什么我今天在这里？
17:56
No easy answer.
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不容易回答
18:00
I was received with a lot of support
that I got from my relatives,
that I got from my relatives,
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我受到很多亲人的帮助
18:04
from colleagues, from friends,
from people I didn't know.
from people I didn't know.
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来自同僚，朋友们以及
很多我不认识的人的帮助
很多我不认识的人的帮助
18:07
They have helped me over the years
to come out of the darkness.
to come out of the darkness.
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这些年来，他们帮助我走出黑暗
18:12
Not everyone was treated
with the same attention.
with the same attention.
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不是所有人都能得到如此的关注
18:16
How many of my colleagues,
after a traumatic incident,
after a traumatic incident,
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在经历苦难之后，
18:19
took their own life?
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有多少同僚最后结束了自己的生命？
18:23
I can count nine that I knew personally.
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3729
我认识的就有9个
18:26
How many of my colleagues
went through a difficult divorce
went through a difficult divorce
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在那些苦难之后，
18:30
after a traumatic experience
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2934
有多少同僚经历了离婚，
18:33
because they could not explain
anything anymore to their spouse?
anything anymore to their spouse?
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因为他们没有办法与他们的伴侣沟通？
18:38
I've lost that count.
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我已经数不过来了
18:40
There is a price for this type of life.
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这些生命是无价和宝贵的
18:44
In Russia, all war monuments have
this beautiful inscription at the top.
this beautiful inscription at the top.
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在俄罗斯，所有的战争纪念碑的顶部
18:48
It says, (In Russian)
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写着（俄罗斯语）
18:52
"No one is forgotten,
nothing is forgotten."
nothing is forgotten."
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“无人会被忘记。
无事会被忘记。”
无事会被忘记。”
18:57
I do not forget my lost colleagues.
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3137
我不会遗忘那些故去的同事
19:00
I cannot forget anything.
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2336
我不能忘记任何发生的事情
19:02
I call on you to remember their dedication
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我呼吁各位，铭记他们的贡献
19:06
and demand that humanitarian
aid workers around the world
aid workers around the world
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并且支持全世界的人道主义救援人员
19:09
be better protected.
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受到更好的保护
19:12
We should not let that light of hope
they have brought to be switched off.
they have brought to be switched off.
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我们不应该熄灭他们带来的
希望之光
希望之光
那次苦难之后，很多同事问我：
“你为什么还要继续？”
“你为什么还要继续？”
19:17
After my ordeal, a lot of colleagues
asked me, "But why do you continue?
asked me, "But why do you continue?
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4690
19:22
Why do you do this sort of job?
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2206
你为什么做这类工作？
19:24
Why do you have to go back to it?"
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为什么非得继续做这些？
19:27
My answer was very simple:
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我的回答很简单
19:30
If I had quit,
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如果我放弃，
19:32
that would have meant
my kidnapper had won.
my kidnapper had won.
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4017
那就意味着
那些绑架我的人们胜利了
那些绑架我的人们胜利了
19:36
They would have taken my soul
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2351
意味着他们可以夺走我的灵魂
19:38
and my humanity.
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以及我的人道主义
19:41
Thank you.
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谢谢
19:43
(Applause)
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（鼓掌）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Vincent Cochetel - HumanitarianVincent Cochetel is the Director of the Bureau for Europe at the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR).
Why you should listen
Vincent Cochetel is the Director of the Bureau for Europe at the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). There he focuses on the specific challenges of the region — maintaining quality in asylum-seeking procedures, ensuring access to protection for those fleeing the conflict in Syria, combatting a rise in xenophobia, and allocating resources for those affected by conflicts of the past.
In 1998, Cochetel was kidnapped near Chechnya. For 317 days, he was chained to a bed frame in a cellar and deprived of light. But far from withdrawing from humanitarian work, the experience made him more determined than ever to improve the rights of refugees worldwide. He has written articles on numerous refugee issues and contributed to the drafting of several UNHCR training manuals related to staff safety, emergency management, and protection.
Vincent Cochetel | Speaker | TED.com