TED Salon: Education Everywhere
Liz Kleinrock: How to teach kids to talk about taboo topics
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When one of Liz Kleinrock's fourth-grade students said the unthinkable at the start of a class on race, she knew it was far too important a teachable moment to miss. But where to start? Learn how Kleinrock teaches kids to discuss taboo topics without fear -- because the best way to start solving social problems is to talk about them.
Liz Kleinrock - Educator
Liz Kleinrock creates curricular content for K-12 students around issues of diversity, equity and inclusion. Full bio
Liz Kleinrock creates curricular content for K-12 students around issues of diversity, equity and inclusion. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
So, a few years ago,
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I was beginning a new unit on race
with my fourth-graders.
with my fourth-graders.
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And whenever we start a new unit,
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I like to begin by having all the students
list everything they know about it,
list everything they know about it,
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and then we also list questions we have.
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And I had the type of moment
that every teacher has nightmares about.
that every teacher has nightmares about.
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One of my students
had just asked the question,
had just asked the question,
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"Why are some people racist?"
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And another student, let's call her Abby,
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had just raised her hand and volunteered:
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"Maybe some people don't like black people
because their skin is the color of poop."
because their skin is the color of poop."
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Yeah, I know.
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So, as if on cue,
my entire class exploded.
my entire class exploded.
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Half of them immediately started laughing,
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and the other half started yelling at Abby
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and shouting things like,
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"Oh, my God, you can't say that,
that's racist!"
that's racist!"
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01:01
So just take a second
to freeze this scene in your mind.
to freeze this scene in your mind.
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There's a class
of nine- and ten-year-olds,
of nine- and ten-year-olds,
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and half of them are in hysterics
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because they think
Abby has said something wildly funny,
Abby has said something wildly funny,
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and the other half are yelling at her
for saying something offensive.
for saying something offensive.
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And then you have Abby,
sitting there completely bewildered
sitting there completely bewildered
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because, in her mind, she doesn't
understand the weight of what she said
understand the weight of what she said
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and why everybody is reacting this way.
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And then you have me, the teacher,
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standing there in the corner,
like, about to have a panic attack.
like, about to have a panic attack.
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So as a classroom teacher,
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I have to make split-second
decisions all the time.
decisions all the time.
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And I knew I needed to react, but how?
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Consider your fight-or-flight instincts.
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I could fight by raising my voice
and reprimanding her for her words.
and reprimanding her for her words.
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Or flight -- just change the subject
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and quickly start reaching
for another subject,
for another subject,
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like anything to get my students' minds
off the word "poop."
off the word "poop."
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However, as we know, the right thing to do
is often not the easy thing to do.
is often not the easy thing to do.
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And as much as I wanted
this moment to be over,
this moment to be over,
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and that I knew both of these options
would help me escape the situation,
would help me escape the situation,
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I knew that this was far too important
of a teachable moment to miss.
of a teachable moment to miss.
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02:13
So after standing there
for what felt like an eternity,
for what felt like an eternity,
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I unfroze and I turned
to face my class, and I said,
to face my class, and I said,
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"Actually, Abby makes a point."
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And my students kind of
looked at each other, all confused.
looked at each other, all confused.
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And I continued,
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"One reason why racism exists
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is because people with light skin
have looked at people with dark skin
have looked at people with dark skin
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and said that their skin was ugly.
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And even use this reason
as an excuse to dehumanize them.
as an excuse to dehumanize them.
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02:44
And the reason why we're learning
about race and racism in the first place
about race and racism in the first place
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is to educate ourselves to know better.
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And to understand
why comments like this are hurtful,
why comments like this are hurtful,
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and to make sure
that people with dark skin
that people with dark skin
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are always treated
with respect and kindness."
with respect and kindness."
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02:59
Now, this was a truly terrifying
teachable moment.
teachable moment.
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03:03
But as we moved forward
in the conversation,
in the conversation,
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I noticed that both Abby
and the rest of the kids
and the rest of the kids
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were still willing to engage.
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03:09
And as I watched the conversation
really marinate with my students,
really marinate with my students,
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I began to wonder how many of my students
have assumptions just like Abby.
have assumptions just like Abby.
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And what happens when those assumptions
go unnoticed and unaddressed,
go unnoticed and unaddressed,
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as they so often do?
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But first, I think it's important
to take a step back
to take a step back
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and even consider
what makes a topic taboo.
what makes a topic taboo.
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I don't remember receiving
an official list of things
an official list of things
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you're not supposed to talk about.
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But I do remember hearing,
over and over, growing up:
over and over, growing up:
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there are two things you do not talk about
at family get-togethers.
at family get-togethers.
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And those two things
are religion and politics.
are religion and politics.
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And I always thought this was very curious
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because religion and politics
often are such huge influencing factors
often are such huge influencing factors
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over so many of our
identities and beliefs.
identities and beliefs.
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But what makes a topic taboo
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is that feeling of discomfort that arises
when these things come up in conversation.
when these things come up in conversation.
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But some people are extremely fluent
in the language of equity,
in the language of equity,
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while other people fear being PC-shamed
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or that their ignorance will show
as soon as they open their mouths.
as soon as they open their mouths.
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But I believe that the first step
towards holding conversations
towards holding conversations
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about things like equity
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is to begin by building a common language.
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And that actually starts
with destigmatizing topics
with destigmatizing topics
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that are typically deemed taboo.
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Now, conversations
around race, for example,
around race, for example,
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have their own specific language
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and students need
to be fluent in this language
to be fluent in this language
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in order to have these conversations.
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Now, schools are often the only place
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where students can feel
free and comfortable
free and comfortable
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to ask questions and make mistakes.
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But, unfortunately, not all students
feel that sense of security.
feel that sense of security.
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Now, I knew that day
in front of my fourth-graders
in front of my fourth-graders
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that how I chose to respond
could actually have life-long implications
could actually have life-long implications
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not only for Abby, but for the rest
of the students in my class.
of the students in my class.
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If I had brushed her words aside,
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the rest of the class could actually infer
that this type of comment is acceptable.
that this type of comment is acceptable.
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But if I had yelled at Abby
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and embarrassed her
in front of all of her friends,
in front of all of her friends,
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that feeling of shame associated with one
of her first conversations on race
of her first conversations on race
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could actually prevent her
from ever engaging on that topic again.
from ever engaging on that topic again.
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05:23
Now, teaching kids about equity in schools
is not teaching them what to think.
is not teaching them what to think.
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It is about giving them the tools
and strategies and language
and strategies and language
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and opportunities
to practice how to think.
to practice how to think.
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For example, think about
how we teach kids how to read.
how we teach kids how to read.
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We don't start by giving them books.
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We start by breaking down words
into letters and sounds
into letters and sounds
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and we encourage them to practice
their fluency by reading every single day,
their fluency by reading every single day,
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with a partner or with their friends.
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And we give them
lots of comprehension questions
lots of comprehension questions
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to make sure that they're
understanding what they're reading.
understanding what they're reading.
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And I believe that teaching
kids about equity
kids about equity
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should be approached
in the exact same way.
in the exact same way.
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I like to start by giving my students
a survey every year,
a survey every year,
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about different issues
around equity and inclusion.
around equity and inclusion.
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And this is a sample survey
from one of my kids,
from one of my kids,
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and as you can see,
there's some humor in here.
there's some humor in here.
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For under the question, "What is race?"
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she has written, "When two or more
cars, people and animals
cars, people and animals
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run to see who is fastest and who wins."
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However, if you look
at her question, "What is racism?"
at her question, "What is racism?"
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it says, "When somebody says or calls
someone dark-skinned a mean name."
someone dark-skinned a mean name."
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So, she's young, but she's showing
that she's beginning to understand.
that she's beginning to understand.
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And when we act
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like our students aren't capable
of having these conversations,
of having these conversations,
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we actually do them such a disservice.
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Now, I also know
that these types of conversations
that these types of conversations
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can seem really, really intimidating
with our students,
with our students,
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especially with young learners.
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But I have taught
first through fifth grades,
first through fifth grades,
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and I can tell you, for example,
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that I'm not going to walk
into a first-grade classroom
into a first-grade classroom
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and start talking about things
like mass incarceration.
like mass incarceration.
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But even a six-year-old first-grader
can understand the difference
can understand the difference
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between what is fair --
people getting what they need.
people getting what they need.
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We identified a lot
of these things in class together.
of these things in class together.
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And the difference
between fair and equal --
between fair and equal --
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when everybody gets the same thing,
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especially goody bags at birthday parties.
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Now, first-graders can also
understand the difference
understand the difference
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between a punishment and a consequence.
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And all of these things
are foundational concepts
are foundational concepts
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that anyone needs to understand
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before having a conversation
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about mass incarceration
in the United States.
in the United States.
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Some people might think
that kindergarteners or first-graders
that kindergarteners or first-graders
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are too young to have
conversations around racism,
conversations around racism,
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but also tell you that young kids
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understand that there are
many different components
many different components
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that make up our identities
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and how people are similar and different,
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and what it means to have power
when other people don't.
when other people don't.
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When we have these conversations
with students at a young age,
with students at a young age,
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it actually takes away
some of that taboo feeling
some of that taboo feeling
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when those topics come up at a later age.
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I also know that teaching
about these things in schools
about these things in schools
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can feel like navigating a minefield.
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For example, what happens
if parents or families
if parents or families
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aren't on board with having
these conversations in schools?
these conversations in schools?
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But to these people, I can say:
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these are some examples of things
that students have said to me
that students have said to me
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and brought to my attention.
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For example, I had a student come in
and whisper to me,
and whisper to me,
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"I've heard all these people
use the term LGBTQ,
use the term LGBTQ,
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but I don't know what it means
and I'm too embarrassed to admit it."
and I'm too embarrassed to admit it."
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I had a student come in over a weekend
and come up to me and say,
and come up to me and say,
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"You know, I just watched
this movie about Australia,
this movie about Australia,
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and it made me wonder
if they have racism there, too."
if they have racism there, too."
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And I always want my students to be
comfortable having these conversations
comfortable having these conversations
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because when they're comfortable
talking about it and asking questions,
talking about it and asking questions,
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they also build comfort in bringing in
their own lives and experiences
their own lives and experiences
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in how they relate to these big topics.
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Also, some teachers might be
kind of nervous
kind of nervous
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if a student brings up a topic
or asks a question
or asks a question
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and they don't know the answer to it.
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But if a student ever brings
something to my attention
something to my attention
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and I don't know the answer,
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I will always admit it and own it
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because I'm not going to pretend
to be an expert in something
to be an expert in something
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that I don't have experience in
or I'm not an authority on.
or I'm not an authority on.
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That same year, I had a student come in
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and ask a question
about the LGBTQ community.
about the LGBTQ community.
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And I just didn't know enough
to give them an appropriate answer.
to give them an appropriate answer.
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So instead, I encouraged that student
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to reach out and ask that question
to a representative of a nonprofit
to a representative of a nonprofit
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who had come to speak to our class
about that very same issue.
about that very same issue.
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When we admit to our students
that we don't have all the answers,
that we don't have all the answers,
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not only does it humanize us to them,
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it also shows them that adults
have a long way to go, too,
have a long way to go, too,
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when it comes to learning
about issues of equity.
about issues of equity.
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Now, a little while back,
I wrote a lesson about consent.
I wrote a lesson about consent.
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And, to some people,
this was very exciting
this was very exciting
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because I took this topic
that seemed very taboo and scary
that seemed very taboo and scary
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and I broke it down into a way
that was accessible for young learners.
that was accessible for young learners.
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However, to other people,
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the idea of consent
is so strongly tied to sex,
is so strongly tied to sex,
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and sex is often considered
a taboo subject,
a taboo subject,
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that it made them very uncomfortable.
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But my students are third-graders,
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so we're not talking about sex in class.
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Rather, I wanted them to understand
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that everybody has different
physical boundaries
physical boundaries
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that make them feel comfortable.
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And the social and emotional
intelligence it takes
intelligence it takes
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to read somebody's words
and tone and body language
and tone and body language
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are skills that often need
to be explicitly taught,
to be explicitly taught,
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the same way we teach things
like reading and math.
like reading and math.
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And this lesson is not reserved
for students of one single demographic.
for students of one single demographic.
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Things like questioning
and making observations
and making observations
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and critical thinking
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are things that any student
of any race or ethnicity
of any race or ethnicity
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or background or language or income
or zip code should be learning in schools.
or zip code should be learning in schools.
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Also, deliberate avoidance
of these conversations
of these conversations
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speaks volumes to our students
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because kids notice when their teachers,
when their textbooks
when their textbooks
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leave out the voices and experiences
of people like women or people of color.
of people like women or people of color.
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Silence speaks volumes.
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I recently asked my class of third-graders
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what they would say to adults
who think they're too young
who think they're too young
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to learn about issues of equity.
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And while this is a small sample
of my 25 students,
of my 25 students,
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all of them agreed
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that not only are they capable
of having these conversations,
of having these conversations,
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but they view it, the right to learn it,
as a right and not as a privilege.
as a right and not as a privilege.
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And, in their words:
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"We're big enough
to know about these things
to know about these things
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because these problems
are happening where we live.
are happening where we live.
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And we have the right to talk about them
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because it will be our life
in the future."
in the future."
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Thank you.
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(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Liz Kleinrock - EducatorLiz Kleinrock creates curricular content for K-12 students around issues of diversity, equity and inclusion.
Why you should listen
Liz Kleinrock specializes in creating engaging and accessible units of study for all ages of learners. She began her career in education as an AmeriCorps volunteer teacher in Oakland, California in 2009, and she has since served as both a classroom educator and diversity coordinator in Los Angeles, California. She also works with schools and districts throughout the United States to develop workshops and trainings that support culturally responsive practices that fit the needs of specific communities.
Kleinrock's teaching practice gained national attention in 2017 after her classroom became the subject of a documentary short produced by Fluid Film. In 2018, she received the Teaching Tolerance Award for Excellence in Teaching, and her lessons on teaching consent and personal boundaries to students have gained international attention through media outlets such as CNN, The Washington Post, The Huffington Post and NPR. Kleinrock has published articles with Heinemann Publishing and Teaching Tolerance on destigmatizing privilege, trauma-informed teaching and cultivating relationships with students and families. She is writing her first book.
Liz Kleinrock | Speaker | TED.com