ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Petter Johansson - Experimental psychologist
Petter Johansson and his research group study self-knowledge and attitude change using methods ranging from questionnaires to close-up card magic.

Why you should listen

Petter Johansson is an associate professor in cognitive science, and together with Lars Hall he runs the Choice Blindness Lab at Lund University in Sweden. 
 
The main theme of Johansson's research is self-knowledge: How much do we know about ourselves, and how do we come to acquire this knowledge? To study these questions, he and his collaborators have developed an experimental paradigm known as "choice blindness." The methodological twist in these experiments is to use magic tricks to manipulate the outcome of people's choices -- and then measure to what extent and in what ways people react to these changes. The general finding is that participants often fail to detect when they receive the opposite of their choice, and when asked to explain, they readily construct and confabulate answers motivating a choice they only believe they intended to make. The effect has been demonstrated in choice experiments on topics such as facial attractiveness, consumer choice and moral and political decision making.

More profile about the speaker
Petter Johansson | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxUppsalaUniversity

Petter Johansson: Do you really know why you do what you do?

Petter Johansson: Ziur al dakizu zergatik egiten duzun egiten duzuna?

Filmed:
1,423,138 views

Petter Johansson psikologo esperimentalak hautu-itsutasun izeneko fenomenoa ikertu du; hau da, geure buruari nahi duguna lortzen ari garela pentsaraztea, benetan hala ez izan arren. Hitzaldi argigarri honetan, hainbat esperimentu (magoekin elkarlanean diseinatutakoak!) azaltzen ditu, honako galdera honi erantzuteko asmoz: Zergatik egiten dugu egiten duguna? Lortutako emaitzak erabakigarriak dira autoezagutzaren nahiz manipulazioari emandako erantzunen arloetan. Agian ez duzu zure burua uste bezain ondo ezagutzen.
- Experimental psychologist
Petter Johansson and his research group study self-knowledge and attitude change using methods ranging from questionnaires to close-up card magic. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
So why do you think
the rich should pay more in taxes?
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Zergatik uste duzu aberatsek gehiago
ordaindu behar dutela zergatan?
00:16
Why did you buy the latest iPhone?
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Zergatik erosi duzu azken iPhone-a?
00:18
Why did you pick your current partner?
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Zergatik aukeratu zenuen zure
oraingo bikotekidea?
00:21
And why did so many people
vote for Donald Trump?
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Eta zergatik bozkatu zuen hainbeste
jendek Donald Trump-en alde?
00:24
What were the reasons, why did they do it?
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Zer arrazoirengatik hartu
zuten erabaki hau?
00:27
So we ask this kind
of question all the time,
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Etengabe egiten ditugu
horrelako galderak,
00:30
and we expect to get an answer.
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eta erantzun bat jaso nahi dugu.
00:31
And when being asked,
we expect ourselves to know the answer,
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Eta geuri galdetzen dizkigutenean,
erantzuteko gai izan nahi dugu,
00:35
to simply tell why we did as we did.
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gure ekintzak justifikatzeko.
00:38
But do we really know why?
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Baina ba al dakigu
zergatik egin ditugun?
00:41
So when you say that you prefer
George Clooney to Tom Hanks,
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George Clooney Tom Hanks baino
nahiago duzula esatean,
00:44
due to his concern for the environment,
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ingurumenagatik duen
ardura dela eta,
00:46
is that really true?
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ziur al zaude hala dela?
00:48
So you can be perfectly sincere
and genuinely believe
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Bene-benetan pentsa dezakezu
00:51
that this is the reason
that drives your choice,
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horregatik egin duzula hautu hau,
00:54
but to me, it may still feel
like something is missing.
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baina, nire ustez,
kontua ez dago erabat argi.
00:57
As it stands, due to
the nature of subjectivity,
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Izan ere, kontua erabat subjektiboa denez,
01:00
it is actually very hard to ever prove
that people are wrong about themselves.
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oso zaila da jendeak bere buruaz
duen ustea okerra dela frogatzea.
01:06
So I'm an experimental psychologist,
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Ni psikologo esperimentala naiz
01:08
and this is the problem
we've been trying to solve in our lab.
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eta arazo hau argitu nahian
ibili gara laborategian.
01:12
So we wanted to create an experiment
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Jendeak bere buruaz ziurtasun osoz dioena
01:14
that would allow us to challenge
what people say about themselves,
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zalantzan jartzeko aukera emango zigun
01:18
regardless of how certain they may seem.
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esperimentu bat geneukan gogoan.
01:21
But tricking people
about their own mind is hard.
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Baina zaila da inor engainatzea
norberaren buruaren gaian.
01:24
So we turned to the professionals.
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Beraz, profesionalengana jo genuen:
01:27
The magicians.
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magoengana.
01:29
So they're experts at creating
the illusion of a free choice.
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Inork baino hobeto sortzen
dute hautu aske baten irudipena.
01:32
So when they say, "Pick a card, any card,"
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"Hartu karta bat, edozein"
esaten dizutenean,
01:34
the only thing you know
is that your choice is no longer free.
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badakizu zure aukera
dagoeneko ez dela askea.
01:38
So we had a few fantastic
brainstorming sessions
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Mago suediar batzuekin
bilera sorta bat antolatu
01:40
with a group of Swedish magicians,
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eta ideiak bildu genituen
01:42
and they helped us create a method
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jendeak hartutako erabakien
01:44
in which we would be able to manipulate
the outcome of people's choices.
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ondorioak manipulatzeko
metodo bat sortzeko.
01:48
This way we would know
when people are wrong about themselves,
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Horrela, euren buruaz
zuten ustean oker zeudela
01:51
even if they don't know this themselves.
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jakin genezakeen,
haiek ez jabetu arren.
01:54
So I will now show you
a short movie showing this manipulation.
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Orain, manipulazio honen
film labur bat erakutsiko dizuet.
01:59
So it's quite simple.
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Erraza da.
02:00
The participants make a choice,
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Partaideek zerbait aukeratzen dute,
02:02
but I end up giving them the opposite.
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baina nik kontrakoa ematen diet.
02:05
And then we want to see:
How did they react, and what did they say?
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Zer erantzun eman ote zuten?
Oraintxe ikusiko dugu.
02:09
So it's quite simple, but see
if you can spot the magic going on.
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Erraza da, ea trikimailua
antzematen duzuen.
02:13
And this was shot with real participants,
they don't know what's going on.
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Hau benetako partaideekin grabatutakoa
da, ez dakite zer gertatzen ari den.
02:19
(Video) Petter Johansson:
Hi, my name's Petter.
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(Bideoa) Petter Johansson:
Kaixo, Petter naiz.
02:21
Woman: Hi, I'm Becka.
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Emakumea: Kaixo, Becka naiz.
02:22
PJ: I'm going to show you
pictures like this.
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PJ: Horrelako irudi batzuk
erakutsiko dizkizut
02:24
And you'll have to decide
which one you find more attractive.
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eta erakargarriena
aukeratu beharko duzu.
02:27
Becka: OK.
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Becka: Ados.
02:28
PJ: And then sometimes,
I will ask you why you prefer that face.
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PJ: Eta tarteka irudi hori zergatik
nahiago duzun galdetuko dizut.
02:32
Becka: OK.
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Becka: Ados.
02:33
PJ: Ready?
Becka: Yeah.
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PJ: Prest?
Becka: Bai.
02:43
PJ: Why did you prefer that one?
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PJ: Zergatik gustatu zaizu
hori gehiago?
02:44
Becka: The smile, I think.
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Becka: Irribarrea, nik uste.
02:46
PJ: Smile.
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PJ: Irribarrea.
02:52
Man: One on the left.
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Gizona: Ezkerrekoa.
02:57
Again, this one just struck me.
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Berriro ere, atentzioa eman didalako.
02:59
Interesting shot.
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Argazki bitxia da.
03:01
Since I'm a photographer,
I like the way it's lit and looks.
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Argazkilaria naizenez, argiztapena
eta itxura gustatu zaizkit.
03:06
Petter Johansson: But now comes the trick.
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Petter Johansson:
Hona hemen trikimailua.
03:10
(Video) Woman 1: This one.
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(Bideoa)
1. emakumea: Hauxe.
03:16
PJ: So they get the opposite
of their choice.
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PJ: Aukeratu dutenaren
kontrakoa ematen diet.
03:20
And let's see what happens.
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Ea zer gertatzen den.
03:28
Woman 2: Um ...
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2. emakumea: Ba...
03:35
I think he seems a little more
innocent than the other guy.
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Beste gizonak baino xaloagoa dirudi.
03:45
Man: The one on the left.
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Gizona: Ezkerrekoa.
03:49
I like her smile
and contour of the nose and face.
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Irribarrea gustatzen zait, baita
sudurraren eta aurpegiaren ingerada ere.
03:53
So it's a little more interesting
to me, and her haircut.
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Interesgarriagoa dirudi.
Ileagatik ere bai.
04:00
Woman 3: This one.
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3. emakumea: Hauxe.
04:03
I like the smirky look better.
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Irribarre burlatia gustatzen zait.
04:05
PJ: You like the smirky look better?
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PJ: Irribarre burlatia gustatzen zaizu?
04:09
(Laughter)
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(Barreak)
04:12
Woman 3: This one.
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3. emakumea: Hauxe.
04:15
PJ: What made you choose him?
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PJ: Zergatik aukeratu duzu?
04:17
Woman 3: I don't know,
he looks a little bit like the Hobbit.
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3. emakumea: Ez dakit,
Hobbit-aren antza pixka bat du.
04:20
(Laughter)
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(Barreak)
04:22
PJ: And what happens in the end
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PJ: Eta zer gertatzen da
04:24
when I tell them the true nature
of the experiment?
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esperimentuaren benetako
funtzionamendua azaltzen diedanean?
04:27
Yeah, that's it. I just have to
ask a few questions.
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Kitto, bukatu dugu. Orain galdera
batzuk egingo dizkizut.
04:29
Man: Sure.
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Gizona: Bota.
04:30
PJ: What did you think
of this experiment, was it easy or hard?
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PJ: Zer iruditu zaizu esperimentua,
erraza ala zaila?
04:33
Man: It was easy.
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Gizona: Erraza izan da.
04:36
PJ: During the experiments,
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PJ: Esperimentuan zehar
04:37
I actually switched
the pictures three times.
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irudiak hiru aldiz lekuz aldatu ditut.
04:40
Was this anything you noticed?
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Antzeman al duzu?
04:42
Man: No. I didn't notice any of that.
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Gizona: Ez, ez naiz konturatu.
04:44
PJ: Not at all?
Man: No.
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PJ: Ez al zara jabetu?
Gizona: Ez.
04:45
Switching the pictures as far as ...
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Baina nola, lekuz aldatu...
04:47
PJ: Yeah, you were pointing at one of them
but I actually gave you the opposite.
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PJ: Bai, bat seinalatu duzu
baina bestea eman dizut.
04:51
Man: The opposite one.
OK, when you --
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Gizona: Kontrakoa. Orduan...
04:53
No. Shows you how much
my attention span was.
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Ez. Argi geratu da zer arreta jarri dudan.
04:55
(Laughter)
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(Barreak)
04:58
PJ: Did you notice that sometimes
during the experiment
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PJ: Hauteman al duzu
esperimentuan zehar, tarteka,
05:01
I switched the pictures?
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irudiak lekuz aldatu ditudala?
05:04
Woman 2: No, I did not notice that.
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2. emakumea: Ez, ez naiz konturatu.
05:06
PJ: You were pointing at one,
but then I gave you the other one.
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PJ: Bat seinalatu duzu, baina
bestea eman dizut.
05:09
No inclination of that happening?
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Ez al zara konturatu?
05:11
Woman 2: No.
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2. emakumea: Ez.
05:13
Woman 2: I did not notice.
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2. emakumea: Ez dut antzeman.
05:14
(Laughs)
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(Barreak)
05:16
PJ: Thank you.
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PJ: Eskerrik asko.
05:17
Woman 2: Thank you.
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2. emakumea: Eskerrik asko.
05:19
PJ: OK, so as you probably
figured out now,
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PJ: Dagoeneko antzemango zenuten
05:21
the trick is that I have
two cards in each hand,
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esku bakoitzean bina karta daukadala
05:23
and when I hand one of them over,
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eta haietako bat ematen diedanean
05:25
the black one kind of disappears
into the black surface on the table.
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azpiko karta beltza mahai gainean
ikusezin bihurtzen dela.
05:30
So using pictures like this,
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Horrelako argazkiez baliatzean,
05:32
normally not more than 20 percent
of the participants detect these tries.
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partaideen %20 baino gutxiagok
hautematen du trikimailua.
05:36
And as you saw in the movie,
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Bideoan ikusi bezala,
05:38
when in the end
we explain what's going on,
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bukaeran, gertatutako guztia
azaltzen diedanean,
05:41
they're very surprised and often refuse
to believe the trick has been made.
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harrituta geratzen dira; batzuk
ez dute sinesten trikimailua egin diedanik.
05:45
So this shows that this effect
is quite robust and a genuine effect.
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Honek efektuaren egiazkotasuna
eta indarra frogatzen ditu.
05:50
But if you're interested
in self-knowledge, as I am,
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Baina autoezagutzan interesa
baduzu, nik bezala,
05:53
the more interesting bit is,
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honek piztuko dizu jakin-mina:
05:54
OK, so what did they say
when they explained these choices?
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Zer esan zuten hautuak arrazoitzeko?
05:58
So we've done a lot of analysis
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Partaideen hitzezko adierazpenak
06:00
of the verbal reports
in these experiments.
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sakon aztertu ditugu.
06:03
And this graph simply shows
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Grafiko honetan ikus daiteke
06:05
that if you compare
what they say in a manipulated trial
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manipulatutako hautuaren aldean
06:10
with a nonmanipulated trial,
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manipulatu gabekoa, hau da,
06:12
that is when they explain
a normal choice they've made
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erabaki arrunt baten zergatiak
06:14
and one where we manipulated the outcome,
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eta manipulatutako erabakiarenak
06:17
we find that they are remarkably similar.
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ia berdin justifikatu dituztela.
06:19
So they are just as emotional,
just as specific,
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Zehaztasun, emozio eta ziurtasun
06:22
and they are expressed
with the same level of certainty.
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berberaz adierazi dituzte.
06:27
So the strong conclusion to draw from this
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Beraz, benetako aukera baten eta
06:29
is that if there are no differences
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manipulatutako baten artean
06:31
between a real choice
and a manipulated choice,
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desberdintasunik ez badago,
agian etengabe aitzakiak
06:35
perhaps we make things up all the time.
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asmatzen ari garela
ondoriozta genezake.
06:38
But we've also done studies
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Baina ikerketa gehiago egin dugu
06:40
where we try to match what they say
with the actual faces.
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esaten dutena argazkietako
aurpegiekin konparatzeko.
06:43
And then we find things like this.
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Horrelako gauzak aurkitu ditugu.
06:45
So here, this male participant,
he preferred the girl to the left,
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Hemen, gizonezko partaide honek
ezkerreko neska nahiago zuen,
06:50
he ended up with the one to the right.
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baina eskuinekoa eman nion.
06:52
And then, he explained
his choice like this.
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Eta horrela azaldu zuen hautua:
06:55
"She is radiant.
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"Oso begitarte alaia du.
06:56
I would rather have approached her
at the bar than the other one.
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Taberna batean lehenago hurbilduko
nintzaioke berari besteari baino.
07:00
And I like earrings."
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Belarritakoak ere gustuko ditut."
07:01
And whatever made him choose
the girl on the left to begin with,
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Auskalo zergatik aukeratu zuen
ezkerreko neska,
07:05
it can't have been the earrings,
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baina belarritakoengatik behintzat ez,
07:06
because they were actually
sitting on the girl on the right.
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eskuinekoak bakarrik daramatzalako.
07:09
So this is a clear example
of a post hoc construction.
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Post hoc argudio baten
adibide argia dugu.
07:13
So they just explained
the choice afterwards.
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Hau da, erabakia hartu ondoren
justifikatu zuen.
07:17
So what this experiment shows is,
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Beraz, esperimentu honek
07:19
OK, so if we fail to detect
that our choices have been changed,
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gure hautuak aldatu egin dituztela
detektatzen ez badugu,
07:23
we will immediately start
to explain them in another way.
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beste era batean arrazoitzen
saiatuko garela frogatzen du.
07:27
And what we also found
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Beste aurkikuntza bat
07:28
is that the participants
often come to prefer the alternative,
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partaideek guk behartutako aukera
07:32
that they were led to believe they liked.
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nahiago izaten bukatzen dutela da.
07:34
So if we let them do the choice again,
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Orduan, berriro aukeratzeko eskatuz gero,
07:36
they will now choose the face
they had previously rejected.
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lehen baztertutako aurpegia
hautatuko lukete.
07:41
So this is the effect
we call "choice blindness."
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Efektu honi "hautu-itsutasuna" deritzo
07:43
And we've done
a number of different studies --
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eta asko ikertu dugu honen inguruan:
07:46
we've tried consumer choices,
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kontsumitzaileen erabakiak,
07:48
choices based on taste and smell
and even reasoning problems.
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usainarekin edota zaporearekin lotutakoak
eta arrazoimen-problemak aztertu ditugu.
07:53
But what you all want to know is of course
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Baina denok jakin nahi duguna zera da:
07:55
does this extend also
to more complex, more meaningful choices?
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hau erabaki konplexu eta esanguratsuei
ere aplika al dakieke?
07:59
Like those concerning
moral and political issues.
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Auzi politiko eta moralen ingurukoei,
esate baterako.
08:04
So the next experiment,
it needs a little bit of a background.
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Hurrengo esperimentuak
testuinguru pixka bat behar du.
08:08
So in Sweden, the political landscape
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Suediar panorama politikoan
08:12
is dominated by a left-wing
and a right-wing coalition.
158
480920
3360
bi koalizio dira nagusi:
ezkerrekoa eta eskuinekoa.
08:17
And the voters may move a little bit
between the parties within each coalition,
159
485720
4416
Boto-emaileak, beraz, koalizio barneko
alderdi batetik bestera mugi daitezke,
08:22
but there is very little movement
between the coalitions.
160
490160
2760
baina ez da ohikoa koalizio batetik
bestera aldatzea.
08:25
And before each elections,
161
493680
1976
Hauteskundeen aurretik,
08:27
the newspapers and the polling institutes
162
495680
4216
egunkariek eta estatistika-institutuek
08:31
put together what they call
"an election compass"
163
499920
2616
"hauteskunde-iparrorratz" sistema,
08:34
which consists of a number
of dividing issues
164
502560
3336
bi koalizioak banantzen dituzten
zenbait arazo polemikoren zerrenda,
08:37
that sort of separates the two coalitions.
165
505920
2336
osatzen dute.
08:40
Things like if tax on gasoline
should be increased
166
508280
3735
Adibidez, ea gasolinaren gaineko zerga
igo beharko litzatekeen,
08:44
or if the 13 months of paid parental leave
167
512039
4096
edo 13 hilabeteko amatasun-baja
08:48
should be split equally
between the two parents
168
516159
2496
genero-berdintasuna bultzatzeko
08:50
in order to increase gender equality.
169
518679
2721
bi gurasoen artean banatu
beharko litzatekeen.
08:54
So, before the last Swedish election,
170
522840
2216
Suediako azken hauteskundeen aurretik,
08:57
we created an election compass of our own.
171
525080
2600
geure hauteskunde-iparrorratz
propioa sortu genuen.
09:00
So we walked up to people in the street
172
528480
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Kalera atera eta jendeari
09:02
and asked if they wanted
to do a quick political survey.
173
530640
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inkesta politiko labur batean
parte hartzeko eskatu genion.
09:06
So first we had them state
their voting intention
174
534000
2456
Hasteko, bi koalizioetatik zeinen alde
09:08
between the two coalitions.
175
536480
1360
bozkatuko zuten galdetzen genien.
09:10
Then we asked them
to answer 12 of these questions.
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538560
3776
Gero, galdera hauetatik hamabiri
erantzuteko eskatzen genien.
09:14
They would fill in their answers,
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542360
1976
Erantzunak bete ondoren,
09:16
and we would ask them to discuss,
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544360
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solasean hasten ginen.
09:18
so OK, why do you think
tax on gas should be increased?
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"Zergatik uste duzu gasolinaren
gaineko zerga igo beharko litzatekeela?"
09:23
And we'd go through the questions.
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Galdera bakoitzarekin, banan bana.
09:25
Then we had a color coded template
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3896
Eta kolore-kode baten araberako
txantiloi bat erabiliz
09:29
that would allow us
to tally their overall score.
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557560
2936
beren puntuazioa kalkulatzen genuen.
09:32
So this person would have
one, two, three, four
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560520
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Norbaitek ezkerraldera
bat, bi, hiru, lau, bost
09:36
five, six, seven, eight, nine
scores to the left,
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564000
3296
sei, zazpi, zortzi, bederatzi
puntu lortuz gero,
09:39
so he would lean to the left, basically.
185
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2680
joera ezkertiarra izango luke.
09:42
And in the end, we also had them
fill in their voting intention once more.
186
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4440
Eta azkenik, berriro boto asmoa
idazteko eskatzen genien.
09:48
But of course, there was
also a trick involved.
187
576160
2280
Baina noski, trikimailu bat
zegoen tartean.
09:51
So first, we walked up to people,
188
579360
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Lehenengo, jendeari hurreratu,
09:53
we asked them
about their voting intention
189
581560
2056
eta boto asmoa galdetzen genien;
09:55
and then when they started filling in,
190
583640
2256
baina erantzunak bete bitartean,
09:57
we would fill in a set of answers
going in the opposite direction.
191
585920
5456
guk beste orri batean
kontrako erantzunak idatzi
10:03
We would put it under the notepad.
192
591400
2576
eta koaderno azpian gordetzen genuen.
10:06
And when we get the questionnaire,
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594000
2776
Ondoren, galdeketa itzultzen zigutenean,
10:08
we would simply glue it on top
of the participant's own answer.
194
596800
3320
partaidearen orriaren gainean
itsasten genuen.
10:16
So there, it's gone.
195
604000
1240
Eta hortxe, listo.
10:24
And then we would ask
about each of the questions:
196
612280
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Orduan, erantzunok
arrazoitzeko eskatzen genien:
10:26
How did you reason here?
197
614680
1536
"Zergatik jarri duzu hau?"
10:28
And they'll state the reasons,
198
616240
1736
Eta zergatiak azaldu ondoren
10:30
together we will sum up
their overall score.
199
618000
2480
beren puntuazioa kalkulatzen genuen.
10:34
And in the end, they will state
their voting intention again.
200
622800
3680
Azkenik, beren boto asmoa
adierazten zuten berriro ere.
10:41
So what we find first of all here,
201
629960
1656
Lehenik eta behin,
manipulazio hauek
10:43
is that very few of these
manipulations are detected.
202
631640
4216
oso pertsona gutxik antzeman
zituztela ikusi genuen.
10:47
And they're not detected
in the sense that they realize,
203
635880
2656
Eta antzematen zituztenean, ez zuten
10:50
"OK, you must have changed my answer,"
204
638560
1856
"Aizu, erantzuna aldatu didazu" esaten,
10:52
it was more the case that,
205
640440
1256
"Barkatu,
10:53
"OK, I must've misunderstood
the question the first time I read it.
206
641720
3176
galdera gaizki ulertu dudala uste dut,
erantzuna aldatu dezaket?"
10:56
Can I please change it?"
207
644920
1240
galdetzen zuten.
10:59
And even if a few of these
manipulations were changed,
208
647080
5136
Manipulazio gutxi batzuk aldarazi arren,
11:04
the overall majority was missed.
209
652240
2136
gehienak berdin-berdin geratu ziren;
11:06
So we managed to switch 90 percent
of the participants' answers
210
654400
3656
partaideen erantzunen %90 aldatzea
lortu genuen, beren profilak
11:10
from left to right, right to left,
their overall profile.
211
658080
3160
ezkerretik eskuinera eta eskuinetik
ezkerrera lekualdatuz.
11:14
And what happens then when
they are asked to motivate their choices?
212
662800
4400
Eta zer gertatzen da argudioak
eskatzen dizkiegunean?
11:20
And here we find much more
interesting verbal reports
213
668160
3056
Kasu honetan, hitzezko adierazpenak
aurpegien esperimentuan baino
11:23
than compared to the faces.
214
671240
2016
askoz interesgarriagoak dira.
11:25
People say things like this,
and I'll read it to you.
215
673280
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Jendeak horrelako erantzunak
eman zituen:
11:29
So, "Large-scale governmental surveillance
of email and internet traffic
216
677720
3736
"Gobernuek eskala handian
Interneta eta email-ak kontrolatzea
11:33
ought to be permissible as means to combat
international crime and terrorism."
217
681480
4336
onargarria da nazioarteko
delitu eta terrorismoari aurre egiteko.
11:37
"So you agree to some extent
with this statement." "Yes."
218
685840
2716
Ados al zaude esaldi honekin?"
"Bai."
11:40
"So how did you reason here?"
219
688580
1500
"Zergatik?"
11:43
"Well, like, as it is so hard to get
at international crime and terrorism,
220
691600
4936
"Beno, nazioarteko delituei eta
terrorismoari aurka egitea zaila denez,
11:48
I think there should be
those kinds of tools."
221
696560
2776
horrelako tresnez baliatzea
beharrezkoa dela uste dut."
11:51
And then the person remembers an argument
from the newspaper in the morning.
222
699360
3616
Orduan, pertsona honi egunkari
bateko argudio bat datorkio burura:
11:55
"Like in the newspaper today,
223
703000
1616
"Gaur egunkarian irakurri dut
11:56
it said they can like,
listen to mobile phones from prison,
224
704640
3376
espetxeetan sakelako telefonoak
kontrolatzen dituztela,
12:00
if a gang leader tries to continue
his crimes from inside.
225
708040
3536
gaizkile-taldeen buruek bertatik
delitu gehiagorik ez antolatzeko.
12:03
And I think it's madness
that we have so little power
226
711600
2816
Erokeria hutsa iruditzen zait
eskuhartzerik ez izatea
12:06
that we can't stop those things
227
714440
1656
horrelako gauzak geldiarazteko,
12:08
when we actually have
the possibility to do so."
228
716120
2936
berez hala egiteko aukera izanda."
12:11
And then there's a little bit
back and forth in the end:
229
719080
2696
Bukaeran, zalantza-kutsu bat dauka:
12:13
"I don't like that they have access
to everything I do,
230
721800
2576
"Ez zait gustatzen egiten dudan
guztira sarbidea izatea,
12:16
but I still think
it's worth it in the long run."
231
724400
2576
baina azkenean merezi duela uste dut."
12:19
So, if you didn't know that this person
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727000
2536
Pertsona honek hautu-itsutasun esperimentu
12:21
just took part in
a choice blindness experiment,
233
729560
2256
batean parte hartu duela
jakingo ez bazenu,
12:23
I don't think you would question
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731840
1856
ez dut uste iritzi hau
12:25
that this is the true attitude
of that person.
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733720
3120
benetakoa ez dela esango zenukeenik.
12:29
And what happens in the end,
with the voting intention?
236
737800
2856
Eta zer gertatzen da bukaeran,
boto asmoarekin?
12:32
What we find -- that one is also
clearly affected by the questionnaire.
237
740680
4696
Galdetegiak eragin handia
izan duela ikusi dugu.
12:37
So we have 10 participants
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745400
1736
10 partaide dauzkagu
12:39
shifting from left to right
or from right to left.
239
747160
2976
ezkerretik eskuinera, edo
alderantziz, mugitu direnak.
12:42
We have another 19
that go from clear voting intention
240
750160
2536
Beste 19 boto asmo argitik
12:44
to being uncertain.
241
752720
1456
zalantzara pasatu dira.
12:46
Some go from being uncertain
to clear voting intention.
242
754200
3096
Beste batzuk zalantzatik
boto asmo garbira igaro dira.
12:49
And then there is a number of participants
staying uncertain throughout.
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757320
4736
Eta partaide kopuru batek zalantza
mantendu du aurretik eta ondoren.
12:54
And that number is interesting
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Kopuru hauek interesgarriak dira,
12:55
because if you look
at what the polling institutes say
245
763680
4616
estatistika-institutuen arabera
13:00
the closer you get to an election,
246
768320
1656
hauteskundeetara gerturatu ahala
13:02
the only people that are sort of in play
247
770000
2136
jokoan dauden boto-emaileak
13:04
are the ones that are
considered uncertain.
248
772160
2656
zalantzatiak direlako, hain zuzen ere.
13:06
But we show there is a much larger number
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774840
3216
Baina iritziz alda lezakeen
jende kopurua
13:10
that would actually consider
shifting their attitudes.
250
778080
2800
askoz handiagoa dela frogatu dugu.
13:13
And here I must point out, of course,
that you are not allowed to use this
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3496
Azpimarratu beharra daukat, noski,
hau ezin dela erabili
13:17
as an actual method
to change people's votes
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785160
2616
hauteskundeen aurretik jendearen
13:19
before an election,
253
787800
1496
botoa aldatzeko metodo gisa;
13:21
and we clearly debriefed them afterwards
254
789320
3616
bukaeran, dena azaldu eta
13:24
and gave them every
opportunity to change back
255
792960
2296
hasieran zuten iritzia berreskuratzeko
13:27
to whatever they thought first.
256
795280
2480
aukera eman genien.
13:30
But what this shows is
that if you can get people
257
798600
2336
Baina honek guztiak
13:32
to see the opposite view and engage
in a conversation with themselves,
258
800960
5536
jendeari kontrako ikuspuntua erakutsi
eta hausnartzera bultzatzen baduzu
13:38
that could actually make them
change their views.
259
806520
2920
iritziz aldatzea eragin dezakezula
frogatzen du.
13:42
OK.
260
810400
1200
Ados.
13:44
So what does it all mean?
261
812760
1656
Eta zer esan nahi du honek denak?
13:46
What do I think is going on here?
262
814440
2416
Zer uste dut dela honen oinarria?
Hasteko,
13:48
So first of all,
263
816880
1216
13:50
a lot of what we call self-knowledge
is actually self-interpretation.
264
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4856
autoezagutza deitzen diogunaren zati handi
bat autointerpretazioa da.
13:55
So I see myself make a choice,
265
823000
2496
Nik zerbait aukeratu
13:57
and then when I'm asked why,
266
825520
2776
eta zergatiak emateko eskatzen didatenean,
14:00
I just try to make
as much sense of it as possible
267
828320
2536
ahal dudan zentzu guztia
bilatzen saiatzen naiz
14:02
when I make an explanation.
268
830880
1936
azalpen bat emateko.
14:04
But we do this so quickly
and with such ease
269
832840
3016
Baina hau hain erraz eta azkar
egiten dugunez,
14:07
that we think we actually know the answer
when we answer why.
270
835880
4280
justifikatzean arrazoi hauek aurretik
bagenekizkiela uste dugu.
14:13
And as it is an interpretation,
271
841040
3096
Eta interpretazio hutsa denez,
14:16
of course we sometimes make mistakes.
272
844160
2296
batzuetan nahastu egiten gara, noski,
14:18
The same way we make mistakes
when we try to understand other people.
273
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3520
ingurukoak ulertzen saiatzean
akatsak egiten ditugun bezalaxe.
14:23
So beware when you ask people
the question "why"
274
851160
3696
Beraz, kontuz ibili jendeari
"zergatik?" galdetzerakoan.
14:26
because what may happen
is that, if you asked them,
275
854880
4896
Galdera bat egiten badiezu,
14:31
"So why do you support this issue?"
276
859800
4016
"Zergatik zaude honen alde?"
14:35
"Why do you stay in this job
or this relationship?" --
277
863840
3216
"Zergatik jarraitzen duzu lan honetan
edo bikotekide honekin?"
14:39
what may happen when you ask why
is that you actually create an attitude
278
867080
3416
Galdera egin baino lehen ez zeukaten
14:42
that wasn't there
before you asked the question.
279
870520
2240
jarrera bat sorrarazten diezu.
14:45
And this is of course important
in your professional life, as well,
280
873440
3176
Hau zure lanbidean ere
garrantzitsua da, noski,
14:48
or it could be.
281
876640
1216
edo izan liteke.
14:49
If, say, you design something
and then you ask people,
282
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2536
Adibidez, zerbait diseinatu eta jendeari
14:52
"Why do you think this is good or bad?"
283
880440
2256
"Zergatik da ona edo txarra?"
galdetzean,
14:54
Or if you're a journalist
asking a politician,
284
882720
3056
Edo kazetaria bazara eta politikari bati
14:57
"So, why did you make this decision?"
285
885800
2376
"Zergatik erabaki zenuen hau?"
galdetzean,
15:00
Or if indeed you are a politician
286
888200
1936
Edo politikaria zeu bazara
15:02
and try to explain
why a certain decision was made.
287
890160
2640
eta erabaki bat azaltzeko asmoa duzunean.
15:06
So this may all seem a bit disturbing.
288
894080
3576
Agian hau kezkagarria irudituko zaizue.
15:09
But if you want to look at it
from a positive direction,
289
897680
3496
Baina alde ona ikustekotan,
15:13
it could be seen as showing,
290
901200
1736
esperimentu honek
15:14
OK, so we're actually
a little bit more flexible than we think.
291
902960
3376
uste baino malguagoak garela
frogatu du.
15:18
We can change our minds.
292
906360
1896
Iritziz alda dezakegu;
15:20
Our attitudes are not set in stone.
293
908280
2456
geure jokabidea ez dago
harrian zizelkatuta.
15:22
And we can also change
the minds of others,
294
910760
3176
Eta besteen iritziak ere
alda ditzakegu
15:25
if we can only get them
to engage with the issue
295
913960
2376
auzi baten inguruan pentsarazi eta
15:28
and see it from the opposite view.
296
916360
1680
kontrako ikuspuntua erakutsita.
15:31
And in my own personal life,
since starting with this research --
297
919400
3936
Nire bizitza pertsonalean, esate baterako,
ikerketa hau hasi nuenetik
15:35
So my partner and I,
we've always had the rule
298
923360
2576
nire bikotekideak eta biok arau
bat ezarri dugu:
15:37
that you're allowed to take things back.
299
925960
2296
beti dagoela esandakoa zuzentzeko aukera.
15:40
Just because I said
I liked something a year ago,
300
928280
2336
Iaz zerbait gustuko nuela aipatu arren,
15:42
doesn't mean I have to like it still.
301
930640
2040
ez du esan nahi oraindik gustuko dudanik.
15:45
And getting rid of the need
to stay consistent
302
933480
2816
Egia esan, kontsekuente izateko
behar horri uko egitea
15:48
is actually a huge relief and makes
relational life so mush easier to live.
303
936320
4360
sekulako lasaitua da eta bikote-bizitza
askoz errazagoa bihurtzen du.
15:53
Anyway, so the conclusion must be:
304
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2360
Edonola ere, hauxe da ondorioa:
15:57
know that you don't know yourself.
305
945320
2496
zure burua ez duzu ondo ezagutzen.
15:59
Or at least not as well
as you think you do.
306
947840
2320
Edo, behintzat, ez uste duzun
bezain ondo.
16:03
Thanks.
307
951480
1216
Eskerrik asko.
16:04
(Applause)
308
952720
4640
(Txaloak)
Translated by Edurne Sanz
Reviewed by Jone Aliri

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Petter Johansson - Experimental psychologist
Petter Johansson and his research group study self-knowledge and attitude change using methods ranging from questionnaires to close-up card magic.

Why you should listen

Petter Johansson is an associate professor in cognitive science, and together with Lars Hall he runs the Choice Blindness Lab at Lund University in Sweden. 
 
The main theme of Johansson's research is self-knowledge: How much do we know about ourselves, and how do we come to acquire this knowledge? To study these questions, he and his collaborators have developed an experimental paradigm known as "choice blindness." The methodological twist in these experiments is to use magic tricks to manipulate the outcome of people's choices -- and then measure to what extent and in what ways people react to these changes. The general finding is that participants often fail to detect when they receive the opposite of their choice, and when asked to explain, they readily construct and confabulate answers motivating a choice they only believe they intended to make. The effect has been demonstrated in choice experiments on topics such as facial attractiveness, consumer choice and moral and political decision making.

More profile about the speaker
Petter Johansson | Speaker | TED.com

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