TEDGlobal 2011
Karen Tse: How to stop torture
Karen Tse: Kako zaustaviti mučenje
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Politički zatvorenici nisu jedini koji su mučeni -- velika većina sudske torture događa se u običnim slučajevima, čak i u funkcionalnim pravnim sustavima. Socijalna aktivistkinja Karen Tse pokazuje kako možemo i trebamo stati na kraj uporabi rutinske torture.
Karen Tse - Anti-torture activist
In too many countries, it's still normal to torture prisoners for confessions and information. Karen Tse works to end that. Full bio
In too many countries, it's still normal to torture prisoners for confessions and information. Karen Tse works to end that. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
In 1994, I walked into a prison in Cambodia,
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1994, ušla sam u zatvor u Kambodži
00:20
and I met a 12-year-old boy
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i upoznala 12-godišnjeg dječaka
00:23
who had been tortured
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koji je mučen
00:25
and was denied access to counsel.
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i kojem nije dozvoljen pristup savjetniku.
00:27
And as I looked into his eyes, I realized
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Kad sam pogledala u njegove oči, shvatila sam da,
00:29
that for the hundreds of letters I had written
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iako sam napisala stotine pisama
00:31
for political prisoners, that I would never have
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za političke zatvorenike, nikad ne bih napisala
00:34
written a letter for him,
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pismo za njega,
00:36
because he was not a 12-year-old boy who
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budući on nije bio 12-godišnjak koji je
00:38
had done something important for anybody.
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uradio nešto važno za nekoga.
00:40
He was not a political prisoner.
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Nije bio politički zatvorenik.
00:42
He was a 12-year-old boy who had
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Bio je 12-godišnji dječak koji je
00:44
stolen a bicycle.
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ukrao bicikl.
00:46
What I also realized at that point was that
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Tada sam još shvatila
00:48
it was not only Cambodia, but
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da se to ne događa samo u Kambodži, nego da,
00:50
of the 113
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od 113 zemalja
00:52
developing countries that torture,
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u razvoju koje provode torturu,
00:54
93 of these countries have all passed laws
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njih 93 imaju zakone
00:57
that say you have a right to a lawyer
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koji kažu da imate pravo na odvjetnika
00:59
and you have a right not to be tortured.
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i da imate pravo ne biti mučeni.
01:02
And what I recognized was that there was an
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Shvatila sam da je to bila
01:04
incredible window of opportunity for us
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nevjerojatna prilika za nas,
01:06
as a world community to come together
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kao svjetsku zajednicu, da se udružimo
01:09
and end torture as an investigative tool.
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i stanemo na kraj mučenju kao sredstvu istrage.
01:12
We often think of torture as being
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Često o torturi mislimo kao
01:14
political torture or reserved for
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o političkoj torturi i nečemu rezerviranom
01:16
just the worst, but, in fact,
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samo za najgore, ali, ustvari,
01:19
95 percent of torture today
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95 posto današnje torture
01:21
is not for political prisoners.
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nije usmjereno ka političkim zatvorenicima.
01:23
It is for people who are
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Usmjereno je k ljudima koji su
01:25
in broken-down legal systems,
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u lošim pravnim sustavima,
01:27
and unfortunately because torture is
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zato što je to, nažalost,
01:29
the cheapest form of investigation --
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najjeftiniji oblik istrage --
01:31
it's cheaper than having a legal system,
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jeftinije je nego imati legalan sustav,
01:33
cheaper than having a lawyer
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jeftinije nego imati odvjetnika
01:35
and early access to counsel --
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i rani pristup savjetovalištu --
01:37
it is what happens most of the time.
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to se događa većinu vremena.
01:39
I believe today that it is possible for us
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Ja danas vjerujem da je moguće za nas
01:41
as a world community, if we make a decision,
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kao svjetsku zajednicu, ako odlučimo,
01:44
to come together and end torture
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udružiti se i stati na kraj torturi
01:46
as an investigative tool in our lifetime,
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kao metodi istrage tijekom našeg životnog vijeka,
01:49
but it will require three things.
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ali to zahtijeva tri stvari.
01:51
First is the training, empowerment,
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Prvo je trening, osnaživanje
01:54
and connection of defenders worldwide.
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i povezivanje branitelja širom svijeta.
01:57
The second is insuring that there is
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Drugo je osigurati da postoji
02:00
systematic early access to counsel.
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sistematski rani pristup savjetovanju.
02:03
And the third is commitment.
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A treće je predanost.
02:06
So in the year 2000,
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U 2000. godini,
02:08
I began to wonder,
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počela sam se pitati,
02:11
what if we came together?
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što ako se udružimo?
02:14
Could we do something
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Možemo li učiniti
02:16
for these 93 countries?
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nešto za te 93 zemlje?
02:18
And I founded International Bridges to Justice
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Osnovala sam Međunarodne Mostove Do Pravde (International Bridges to Justice),
02:20
which has a specific mission of
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koji imaju misiju
02:22
ending torture as an investigative tool
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ukidanja torture kao metode istrage
02:25
and implementing due process rights
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i implementaciju prava tijekom procesa
02:27
in the 93 countries by placing trained lawyers
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u 93 zemlje, stavljajući obučene odvjetnike
02:30
at an early stage in police stations
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u ranoj fazi istrage u policijske postaje
02:32
and in courtrooms.
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i sudnice.
02:34
My first experiences, though, did come
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Moja prva iskustva su bila
02:36
from Cambodia, and at the time I remember
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iz Kambodže, i sjećam se svog
02:39
first coming to Cambodia and there were,
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prvog dolaska u Kambodžu i tamo je
02:41
in 1994, still less than
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1994. godine bilo manje od
02:43
10 attorneys in the country because
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10 odvjetnika u zemlji, budući
02:45
the Khmer Rouge had killed them all.
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da su ih Crveni Kmeri sve ubili.
02:47
And even 20 years later, there was only
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Dvadeset godina kasnije, bilo je samo
02:49
10 lawyers in the country, so consequently
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10 odvjetnika u zemlji tako da bi,
02:51
you'd walk into a prison and
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kad uđete u zatvor,
02:53
not only would you meet 12-year-old boys,
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ne samo susreli 12-godišnjake,
02:55
you'd meet women and you'd say,
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nego i žene, koje biste pitali:
02:57
"Why are you here?" Women would say,
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„Zašto ste ovdje?“, a one bi odgovorile:
02:59
"Well I've been here for 10 years because
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„Ovdje sam 10 godina zato što je
03:01
my husband committed a crime, but they can't find him."
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moj muž počinio zločin, ali ga ne mogu pronaći“.
03:03
So it's just a place where there was no rule of law.
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To je jednostavno mjesto bez pravila i zakona.
03:06
The first group of defenders came together
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Prva skupina branitelja se oformila
03:08
and I still remember, as I was training, I said,
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i sjećam se, dok sam provodila trening, rekla sam:
03:10
"Okay, what do you do for an investigation?"
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„Ok, što vi radite za istragu?“,
03:12
And there was silence in the class, and finally
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i bila je tišina u učionici, a onda je konačno
03:14
one woman stood up, [inaudible name],
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jedna žena ustala [nerazumljivo ime]
03:16
and she said "Khrew," which means "teacher."
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i rekla „Khrew“, što znači „učitelj“.
03:19
She said, "I have defended more than
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Rekla je: „Ja sam branila više od
03:22
a hundred people, and I've never had to do
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stotinu ljudi i nikad nisam morala raditi
03:25
any investigation,
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istragu,
03:27
because they all come with confessions."
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budući da su svi došli s priznanjem“.
03:29
And we talked about, as a class, the fact that
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Pričali smo, kao razred, o činjenici da,
03:32
number one, the confessions
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prvo, priznanje
03:34
might not be reliable, but number two,
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ne mora biti vjerodostojno, a drugo,
03:36
we did not want to encourage the police
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nismo htjeli podržati policiju
03:38
to keep doing this, especially
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da nastavi raditi to, posebno
03:40
as it was now against the law.
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jer je to sada bilo protuzakonito.
03:42
And it took a lot of courage for these
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Trebalo je mnogo hrabrosti ovim
03:44
defenders to decide that they would
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braniteljima da odluče da će
03:46
begin to stand up and support each other
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ustati i podržati jedni druge
03:48
in implementing these laws.
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u implementaciji tih zakona.
03:51
And I still remember the first cases where
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Još se sjećam prvih slučajeva gdje bi
03:53
they came, all 25 together, she would
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oni došli, svih 25 zajedno,
03:55
stand up, and they were in the back, and
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ona bi ustala, a ostali bi bili iza i
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they would support her, and the judges kept
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podržali ju, a sudac je nastavljao
03:59
saying, "No, no, no, no, we're going to do things
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govoriti: „Ne, ne, ne, ne, nastavit ćemo raditi stvari
04:01
the exact same way we've been doing them."
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na jednak način kako smo i do sada“.
04:03
But one day the perfect case came, and it
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Ali jednog dana došao je savršen slučaj,
04:05
was a woman who was a vegetable seller,
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žena, prodavačica povrća,
04:07
she was sitting outside of a house.
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sjedila je ispred kuće.
04:09
She said she actually saw the person
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Rekla je da je vidjela osobu koja je istrčala,
04:12
run out who she thinks stole
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za koju ona misli da je ukrala
04:14
whatever the jewelry was, but the police
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neki nakit, ali policija je došla,
04:16
came, they got her, there was nothing on her.
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uhvatila ju, a na njoj nije bilo ništa od tog nakita.
04:18
She was pregnant at the time. She had
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Bila je trudna u to vrijeme. Imala je
04:20
cigarette burns on her. She'd miscarried.
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opekotine od cigareta po sebi. Pobacila je.
04:22
And when they brought her case
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A kad su došli s njenim slučajem
04:24
to the judge, for the first time he stood up
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kod suca, on je prvi put ustao i rekao:
04:26
and he said, "Yes, there's no evidence
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„Da, ne postoje dokazi,
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except for your torture confession
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osim za vaše priznanje torture
04:30
and you will be released."
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i bit ćete pušteni“.
04:32
And the defenders began to take cases
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Branitelji su počeli uzimati sve više slučajeva
04:34
over and over again and
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i, vidjet ćete,
04:36
you will see, they have step by step began
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korak po korak su počeli
04:39
to change the course of history in Cambodia.
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mijenjati pravac povijesti u Kambodži.
04:42
But Cambodia is not alone.
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Ali Kambodža nije sama.
04:44
I used to think, well is it Cambodia?
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Mislila sam, je li to Kambodža?
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Or is it other countries?
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Ili su to druge zemlje?
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But it is in so many countries.
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Ali tako je u puno zemalja.
04:51
In Burundi I walked into a prison and it wasn't
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U Burundiju sam ušla u zatvor i tamo nije
04:53
a 12-year-old boy, it was an 8-year-old boy
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bio 12-godišnjak, bio je 8-godišnjak,
04:56
for stealing a mobile phone.
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zbog krađe mobitela.
04:58
Or a woman, I picked up her baby,
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Ili žena, uzela sam njenu bebu,
05:00
really cute baby, I said "Your baby is so cute."
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doista slatku bebu i rekla:“Vaša beba je tako slatka“.
05:03
It wasn't a baby, she was three.
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To nije bila beba, imala je tri godine.
05:05
And she said "Yeah, but she's why I'm here,"
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A ona je rekla: „Da, ali ona je razlog zašto sam ovdje“,
05:07
because she was accused of stealing
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bila je optužena da je ukrala
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two diapers and an iron for her baby and
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dvije pelene i peglu za svoju bebu i
05:11
still had been in prison.
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još je bila u zatvoru.
05:13
And when I walked up to the prison director,
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Kad sam došla do ravnatelja zatvora,
05:15
I said, "You've got to let her out.
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rekla sam: „Morate ju pustiti van.
05:17
A judge would let her out."
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Sudac bi ju pustio van“.
05:19
And he said, "Okay, we can talk about it,
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On je rekao: „Ok, možemo razgovarati o tome.
05:21
but look at my prison. Eighty percent
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Ali pogledajte moj zatvor. 80 posto
05:23
of the two thousand people here
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od 2.000 ljudi ovdje
05:25
are without a lawyer. What can we do?"
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su bez odvjetnika. Što možemo učiniti?“
05:27
So lawyers began to courageously
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Odvjetnici su se počeli hrabro udruživati
05:29
stand up together to organize a system
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da organiziraju sustav
05:32
where they can take cases.
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gdje mogu uzimati slučajeve.
05:34
But we realized that it's not only the training
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Ali smo shvatili da nije sve samo u obučavanju
05:36
of the lawyers, but the connection
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odvjetnika, nego i njihova povezanost
05:38
of the lawyers that makes a difference.
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je ono što pravi razliku.
05:40
For example, in Cambodia, it was that
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Na primjer, u Kambodži je bila
05:42
[inaudible name] did not go alone
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[nerazumljivo ime] koja nije išla sama,
05:44
but she had 24 lawyers with her
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nego je imala sa sobom 24 odvjetnika
05:46
who stood up together. And in the same way,
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koji su se držali zajedno. O istom mi
05:48
in China, they always tell me,
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u Kini kažu
05:50
"It's like a fresh wind in the desert
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„To je kao svježi vjetar u pustinji,
05:52
when we can come together."
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kad možemo doći zajedno“.
05:54
Or in Zimbabwe, where I remember Innocent,
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Ili u Zimbabveu, sjećam se jednog nevinog,
05:56
after coming out of a prison where everybody
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koji je nakon izlaska iz zatvora gdje su svi ostajali,
05:58
stood up and said, "I've been here
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rekao: „Bio sam ovdje
06:00
for one year, eight years, 12 years
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godinu, osam godina, dvanaest godina
06:02
without a lawyer,"
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bez odvjetnika“,
06:04
he came and we had a training together
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došao je i držali smo obuku zajedno,
06:06
and he said, "I have heard it said" --
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a on je rekao: „Čuo sam da je rečeno“ --
06:09
because he had heard people mumbling
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budući da je čuo ljude kako mrmljaju
06:11
and grumbling -- "I have heard it said that
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i gunđaju -- „Čuo sam da je rečeno
06:13
we cannot help to create justice
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da ne možemo pomoći da se kreira pravda
06:16
because we do not have the resources."
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budući nemamo resursa“.
06:18
And then he said, "But I want you to know
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A onda je rekao: „Ali želim da znate
06:20
that the lack of resources
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da nedostatak resursa
06:23
is never an excuse for injustice."
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nikad nije izgovor za nepravdu“.
06:25
And with that, he successfully
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Organizirao je
06:27
organized 68 lawyers who have been
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68 odvjetnika koji su
06:30
systematically taking the cases.
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sustavno uzimali slučajeve.
06:32
The key that we see, though, is training
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Mi kao rješenje vidimo obuku
06:35
and then early access.
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i rani pristup.
06:37
I was recently in Egypt, and was inspired
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Nedavno sam bila u Egiptu i bila sam inspirirana
06:39
to meet with another group of lawyers,
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da se sastanem s drugom skupinom odvjetnika,
06:41
and what they told me is that they said,
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a oni su mi rekli:
06:43
"Hey, look, we don't have police
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„Gle, mi nemamo policiju
06:45
on the streets now. The police are
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na ulicama. Policija je
06:47
one of the main reasons why we had
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jedan od glavnih razloga zašto smo imali
06:49
the revolution. They were torturing everybody
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revoluciju. Oni su mučili sve
06:51
all the time."
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cijelo vrijeme“.
06:53
And I said, "But there's been tens of millions
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Ja sam rekla: „Ali desetci milijuna
06:55
of dollars that have recently gone in
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dolara su u posljednje vrijeme otišli za
06:57
to the development of the legal system here.
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razvoj pravnog sustava ovdje.
06:59
What's going on?"
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Što se događa?“
07:01
I met with one of the development agencies,
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Sastala sam se s jednom agencijom za razvoj,
07:04
and they were training prosecutors
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oni su obučavali tužitelje
07:06
and judges, which is the normal bias,
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i suce, što je inače neravnopravno
07:08
as opposed to defenders.
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u odnosu na branitelje.
07:10
And they showed me a manual which
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Pokazali su mi priručnik
07:12
actually was an excellent manual.
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koji je bio odličan.
07:14
I said, "I'm gonna copy this."
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Rekla sam: „Kopirat ću ovo“.
07:16
It had everything in it. Lawyers can come
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Sve je bilo u njemu. Odvjetnici mogu doći
07:18
at the police station. It was perfect.
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u policijsku postaju. Bilo je savršeno.
07:20
Prosecutors were perfectly trained.
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Tužitelji su bili savršeno obučeni.
07:22
But I said to them, "I just have one question,
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Ali rekla sam im: „Imam jedno pitanje --
07:24
which is, by the time that everybody got to
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do trenutka dok svi dođu
07:26
the prosecutor's office, what had happened to them?"
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u tužiteljev ured, što im se dogodi?“
07:28
And after a pause, they said,
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Nakon pauze, rekli su:
07:30
"They had been tortured."
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„Bili su mučeni“.
07:32
So the pieces are,
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Znači, nije dovoljno
07:34
not only the training of the lawyers, but
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samo obučiti odvjetnike,
07:36
us finding a way to systematically implement
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moramo naći način da sustavno implementiramo
07:39
early access to counsel, because they are
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rani pristup savjetniku, budući su oni
07:42
the safeguard in the system
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osiguranje u sustavu
07:44
for people who are being tortured.
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za ljude koji su mučeni.
07:47
And as I tell you this, I'm also aware of the
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Dok vam ovo govorim, svjesna sam da
07:49
fact that it sounds like, "Oh, okay, it sounds
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to zvuči kao: „Oh, ok, to zvuči kao
07:51
like we could do it, but can we really do it?"
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da mi to možemo, ali možemo li doista?“
07:54
Because it sounds big.
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Zato što zvuči veliko.
07:56
And there are many reasons why I believe it's possible.
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A postoji mnogo razloga zašto mislim da je moguće.
07:59
The first reason is the people on the ground
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Prvi razlog su ljudi na terenu
08:02
who find ways of creating miracles
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koji zbog svoje predanosti
08:05
because of their commitment.
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pronalaze načine da čine čuda.
08:07
It's not only Innocent, who I told you about
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Ne samo Nevini, o kom sam vam pričala,
08:10
in Zimbabwe, but defenders all over the world
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u Zimbabveu, nego branitelji širom svijeta
08:13
who are looking for these pieces.
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koji traže načine.
08:16
We have a program called JusticeMakers,
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Imamo program koji se zove StvarateljiPravde (JusticeMakers)
08:19
and we realized there are people that are
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i shvatili smo da postoje
08:21
courageous and want to do things, but
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hrabri ljudi koji žele raditi, ali
08:23
how can we support them?
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kako ih možemo podržati?
08:25
So it's an online contest where it's only
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Tako da je to online natjecanje gdje je na
08:27
five thousand dollars if you come up with
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raspolaganju 5.000$ ako nam date
08:29
and innovative way of implementing justice.
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inovativan način implementiranja pravde.
08:31
And there are 30 JusticeMakers
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A postoji 30 JusticeMakersa
08:33
throughout the world, from Sri Lanka
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širom svijeta, od Šri Lanke,
08:35
to Swaziland to the DRC, who with
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do Svazija, do DR Konga, koji s
08:38
five thousand dollars do amazing things,
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5.000$ rade nevjerojatne stvari,
08:41
through SMS programs,
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kroz SMS programe,
08:43
through paralegal programs,
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pomoćne pravne programe,
08:45
through whatever they can do.
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kroz sve što mogu napraviti.
08:47
And it's not only these JusticeMakers,
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Nisu to samo JusticeMakersi,
08:51
but people we courageously see
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nego ljudi koji
08:53
figure out who their networks are
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shvaćaju tko su njihove mreže
08:56
and how they can move it forward.
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i kako ih mogu pokrenuti naprijed.
08:58
So in China, for instance, great laws
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Tako je u Kini, naprimjer, izašao odličan
09:00
came out where it says police cannot
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zakon koji kaže da policija ne smije
09:03
torture people or they will be punished.
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mučiti ljude, inače će biti kažnjeni.
09:06
And I was sitting side by side with one of our
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Sjedila sam pokraj jednog od naših
09:09
very courageous lawyers, and said,
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vrlo hrabrih odvjetnika i rekla:
09:12
"How can we get this out? How can we
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„Kako mi ovo možemo provjeriti? Kako možemo
09:14
make sure that this is implemented?
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biti sigurni da se implementira?
09:16
This is fantastic." And he said to me,
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Ovo je odlično“. A on mi je rekao:
09:18
"Well, do you have money?" And I said,
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„Imate li novca?“ Ja sam rekla:
09:20
"No." And he said, "That's okay,
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„Ne“. On je rekao: „ To je u redu,
09:22
we can still figure it out."
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možemo to još napraviti“.
09:24
And on December 4, he organized
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4. prosinca organizirao je
09:26
three thousand members
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3.000 članova
09:28
of the Youth Communist League,
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Omladinske Komunističke Lige
09:30
from 14 of the top law schools,
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s 14 najboljih pravnih fakulteta,
09:32
who organized themselves, developed
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koji su se sami organizirali, napravili
09:34
posters with the new laws, and went
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postere s novim zakonima i otišli
09:36
to the police stations and began what he says
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u policijske postaje i počeli s, kako on kaže,
09:38
is a non-violent legal revolution
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nenasilnom pravnom revolucijom
09:41
to protect citizen rights.
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za zaštitu građanskih prava.
09:44
So I talked about the fact that we need
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Govorila sam o tome da moramo
09:46
to train and support defenders.
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obučiti i podržati branitelje.
09:48
We need to systematically implement
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Trebamo sustavnu implementaciju
09:50
early access to counsel.
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pristupa savjetnicima.
09:52
But the third and most important thing is that
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Ali treća i najvažnija stvar je da
09:54
we make a commitment to this.
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budemo predani ovomu.
09:56
And people often say to me, "You know,
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Ljudi mi često kažu: „Znaš,
09:58
this is great, but it's wildly idealistic.
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ovo je super, ali je vrlo idealistički.
10:00
Never going to happen."
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Neće se dogoditi“.
10:02
And the reason that I think that
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Razlog zašto mislim da su
10:04
those words are interesting is because
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te izjave zanimljive je zato što
10:06
those were the same kinds of words
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su to jednake izjave
10:08
that were used for people who decided
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koje su upućivane ljudima koji su odlučili
10:10
they would end slavery, or end apartheid.
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stati na kraj ropstvu ili aparthejdu.
10:12
It began with a small group of people
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Počelo je s malom skupinom ljudi
10:14
who decided they would commit.
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koji su odlučili predati se tomu.
10:16
Now, there's one of our favorite poems
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Najdraža pjesma među braniteljima,
10:18
from the defenders, which they share
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koja se pjeva
10:20
from each other, is:
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među njima je:
10:22
"Take courage friends, the road is often long,
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„Budite hrabri, prijatelji, cesta je često dugačka,
10:24
the path is never clear,
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put nikad nije čist.
10:26
and the stakes are very high,
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Ulog je visok,
10:28
but deep down, you are not alone."
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ali u dubini niste sami“.
10:30
And I believe that if we can come together
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Vjerujem da se možemo skupiti
10:33
as a world community to support not only
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kao svjetska zajednica da podržimo, ne samo
10:35
defenders, but also everyone in the system
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branitelje, nego svakoga u sustavu
10:38
who is looking towards it,
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koji je otvoren prema tomu,
10:40
we can end torture as an investigative tool.
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možemo stati na kraj mučenju kao sredstvu istrage.
10:43
I end always, because I'm sure the questions are --
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Uvijek završim, budući da sam sigurna da su pitanja --
10:45
and I'd be happy to talk to you
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a ja bih bila sretna da razgovaram s vama
10:47
at any point -- "But what can I really do?"
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u tom trenutku -- „Ali što doista možemo učiniti?“
10:49
Well, I would say this. First of all,
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Ja bih rekla ovo. Prvo,
10:51
you know what you can do. But second of all,
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znate što možete učiniti. Ali, drugo,
10:53
I would leave you with the story of Vishna,
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ostavila bih vas s Vishninom pričom,
10:55
who actually was my inspiration
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koji je ustvari bio moja inspiracija
10:58
for starting International Bridges to Justice.
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za pokretanje Međunarodnih Mostova Do Pravde.
11:00
Vishna was a 4-year-old boy when I met him
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Vishna je bio 4-godišnji dječak kad sam ga upoznala,
11:03
who was born in a Cambodian prison
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koji je rođen u kambodžanskom zatvoru
11:05
in Kandal Province. But because he was
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u provinciji Kandal. Budući da je bio
11:08
born in the prison, everybody loved him,
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rođen u zatvoru, svi su ga voljeli,
11:10
including the guards, so he was the only one
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uključujući čuvare, tako da je on bio jedini
11:12
who was allowed to come
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kojem je bilo dozovoljeno prolaziti
11:14
in and out of the bars.
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kroz rešetke.
11:16
So, you know, there's bars. And by the time
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Dakle, bile su rešetke. Kako je
11:18
that Vishna was getting bigger,
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Vishna rastao,
11:20
which means what gets bigger? Your head gets bigger.
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što znači, što postaje veće? Glava postaje veća.
11:22
So he would come to the first bar,
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On bi došao do prve rešetke,
11:24
the second bar and then the third bar,
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druge i onda do treće rešetke,
11:26
and then really slowly move his head
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i onda jako polako pomicao glavu
11:28
so he could fit through, and come back,
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da bi mogao proći kroz to, i dolazio nazad,
11:30
third, second, first. And he would
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treća, druga, prva. Uhvatio bi
11:32
grab my pinkie, because what he wanted
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moj mali prst, budući je ono što je želio
11:34
to do every day is he wanted to go visit.
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bilo svaki dan ići u posjete.
11:36
You know, he never quite made it to
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Nije uspio sve posjetiti
11:38
all of them every day, but he wanted to visit
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svaki dan, ali želio je posjetiti
11:40
all 156 prisoners. And I would lift him,
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svih 156 zatvorenika. Ja bih ga podigla
11:42
and he would put his fingers through.
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i on bi provukao svoje prste.
11:44
Or if they were dark cells, it was like iron
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Ili, ako su bile tamne ćelije, to je bilo kao
11:46
corrugated, and he would put his fingers through.
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valovito željezo, a on bi provukao svoje prste.
11:48
And most of the prisoners said that he was
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Većina zatvorenika je rekla da je on
11:50
their greatest joy and their sunshine, and they
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bio njihova najveća radost i njihovo sunce,
11:52
looked forward to him. And I was like,
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veselili su mu se. A ja sam mislila --
11:54
here's Vishna. He's a 4-year-old boy.
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to je Vishna. Četverogodišnjak.
11:56
He was born in a prison with almost nothing,
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Rođen je u zatvoru skoro bez ičega,
11:58
no material goods, but he had a sense of
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bez materijalnih dobara, ali je imao osjećaj za
12:00
his own heroic journey, which I believe
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svoje vlastito herojsko putovanje,
12:02
we are all born into. He said,
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s kojim se rodimo. On je rekao:
12:04
"Probably I can't do everything.
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„Ja vjerojatno ne mogu učiniti sve.
12:06
But I'm one. I can do something.
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Ali ja sam taj. Ja mogu učiniti nešto.
12:08
And I will do the one thing that I can do."
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I učinit ću ono što mogu“.
12:10
So I thank you for having the prophetic
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Zahvaljujem vam što ste imali profetsku
12:12
imagination to imagine the shaping
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maštu da zamisliti stvaranje
12:15
of a new world with us together,
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novog svijeta s nama
12:17
and invite you into this journey with us.
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i pozivam vas na ovo putovanje s nama.
12:19
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
12:21
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
12:29
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
12:31
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
12:33
Thank you.
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Hvala.
12:35
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Karen Tse - Anti-torture activistIn too many countries, it's still normal to torture prisoners for confessions and information. Karen Tse works to end that.
Why you should listen
A former public defender, Karen Tse developed an interest in the intersection of criminal law and human rights after observing Southeast Asian refugees held in a local prison without trial, often tortured to obtain "confessions." In 1994, she moved to Cambodia to train the country's first core group of public defenders. Under the auspices of the UN, she trained judges and prosecutors, and established the first arraignment court in Cambodia.
In 2000, Tse founded International Bridges to Justice to help create systemic change in criminal justice and promote basic rights of legal representation for defendants on the ground. Her foundation complements the work of witness groups, who do the equally vital work of advocacy, reports, photographs. Tse's group helps governments build new systems that respect individual rights. In IBJ's first years, she negotiated groundbreaking measures in judicial reform with the Chinese, Vietnamese and Cambodian governments. It now works in sixteen countries, including Rwanda, Burundi and India.
She says: "I believe it is possible to end torture in my lifetime."
Karen Tse | Speaker | TED.com