TEDGlobal 2011
Karen Tse: How to stop torture
Karen Tse: Kako ustaviti mučenje
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Politični zaporniki niso edini, ki jih mučijo - velika večina mučenja v kazenskem postopku se zgodi v navadnih primerih, celo v "delujočih" pravnih sistemih. Socialna aktivistka Karen Tse nam pokaže, kako se lahko in kako bi se tudi morali upreti rutinski uporabi mučenja.
Karen Tse - Anti-torture activist
In too many countries, it's still normal to torture prisoners for confessions and information. Karen Tse works to end that. Full bio
In too many countries, it's still normal to torture prisoners for confessions and information. Karen Tse works to end that. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
In 1994, I walked into a prison in Cambodia,
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Leta 1994 sem obiskala zapor v Kambodži
00:20
and I met a 12-year-old boy
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in spoznala dvanajstletnega fanta,
00:23
who had been tortured
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ki so ga mučili
00:25
and was denied access to counsel.
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in mu preprečili dostop do obrambe.
00:27
And as I looked into his eyes, I realized
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Ko sem mu pogledala v oči, sem spoznala,
00:29
that for the hundreds of letters I had written
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da kljub stotinam pisem, ki sem jih napisala
00:31
for political prisoners, that I would never have
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v podporo političnim zapornikom, nikoli ne bi
00:34
written a letter for him,
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napisala pisma v njegovo podporo,
00:36
because he was not a 12-year-old boy who
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saj ni bil dvanajstletnik,
00:38
had done something important for anybody.
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ki bi za kogarkoli naredil kaj pomembnega.
00:40
He was not a political prisoner.
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Ni bil politični zapornik.
00:42
He was a 12-year-old boy who had
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Bil je dvanajstletni deček,
00:44
stolen a bicycle.
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ki je ukradel kolo.
00:46
What I also realized at that point was that
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Takrat sem tudi ugotovila,
00:48
it was not only Cambodia, but
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da ne gre samo za Kambodžo,
00:50
of the 113
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ampak da je od 113 držav v razvoju,
00:52
developing countries that torture,
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ki izvajajo mučenje,
00:54
93 of these countries have all passed laws
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93 med njimi sprejelo zakone,
00:57
that say you have a right to a lawyer
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ki dajejo pravico do odvetnika
00:59
and you have a right not to be tortured.
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in prepovedujejo mučenje.
01:02
And what I recognized was that there was an
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Pri tem sem spoznala, da obstaja
01:04
incredible window of opportunity for us
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neverjetna priložnost, da se
01:06
as a world community to come together
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kot svetovna skupnost združimo
01:09
and end torture as an investigative tool.
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in končamo mučenje kot preiskovalno prakso.
01:12
We often think of torture as being
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O mučenju pogosto razmišljamo kot
01:14
political torture or reserved for
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da je politične narave ali omejeno
01:16
just the worst, but, in fact,
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samo za najhujše ljudi, a v resnici
01:19
95 percent of torture today
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dandanes 95 odstotkov žrtev mučenja
01:21
is not for political prisoners.
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niso politični zaporniki.
01:23
It is for people who are
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So ljudje, ki so se znašli
01:25
in broken-down legal systems,
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v nedelujočih pravnih sistemih
01:27
and unfortunately because torture is
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in na žalost zato, ker je mučenje
01:29
the cheapest form of investigation --
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najcenejša oblika preiskovanja...
01:31
it's cheaper than having a legal system,
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cenejša kot imeti pravni sistem,
01:33
cheaper than having a lawyer
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cenejša od odvetnika
01:35
and early access to counsel --
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in od zgodnjega dostopa do obrambe...
01:37
it is what happens most of the time.
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večinoma se dogaja to.
01:39
I believe today that it is possible for us
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Verjamem, da lahko, če se
01:41
as a world community, if we make a decision,
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kot svetovna skupnost odločimo,
01:44
to come together and end torture
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da bomo stopili skupaj, še v času našega življenja
01:46
as an investigative tool in our lifetime,
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končamo mučenje kot preiskovalno orodje,
01:49
but it will require three things.
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a potrebne bodo tri stvari.
01:51
First is the training, empowerment,
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Prva je usposabljanje, opolnomočenje
01:54
and connection of defenders worldwide.
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in povezanost branilcev pravic po svetu.
01:57
The second is insuring that there is
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Druga je zagotavljanje
02:00
systematic early access to counsel.
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sistematičnega zgodnjega dostopa do obrambe.
02:03
And the third is commitment.
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In tretja je zavezanost.
02:06
So in the year 2000,
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Leta 2000
02:08
I began to wonder,
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sem se začela spraševati,
02:11
what if we came together?
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kaj če bi stopili skupaj.
02:14
Could we do something
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Bi lahko naredili kaj
02:16
for these 93 countries?
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za teh 93 držav?
02:18
And I founded International Bridges to Justice
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In ustanovila sem Mednarodne mostove do pravice,
02:20
which has a specific mission of
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s posebno misijo
02:22
ending torture as an investigative tool
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končati mučenje kot preiskovalno metodo
02:25
and implementing due process rights
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in izvajati pravico do poštenega sojenja v 93 državah,
02:27
in the 93 countries by placing trained lawyers
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tako da bi usposobljene odvetnike v zgodnji fazi
02:30
at an early stage in police stations
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pripeljali na policijske postaje
02:32
and in courtrooms.
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in v sodne dvorane.
02:34
My first experiences, though, did come
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Moje prve izkušnje pa so iz Kambodže
02:36
from Cambodia, and at the time I remember
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in spomnim se, da ko sem
02:39
first coming to Cambodia and there were,
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leta 1994 prvič prišla v Kambodžo,
02:41
in 1994, still less than
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je bilo tam
02:43
10 attorneys in the country because
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manj kot deset odvetnikov,
02:45
the Khmer Rouge had killed them all.
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saj je režim Rdečih kmerov vse pobil.
02:47
And even 20 years later, there was only
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Še dvajset let kasneje
02:49
10 lawyers in the country, so consequently
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jih je bilo komaj deset,
02:51
you'd walk into a prison and
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zato smo ob prihodu v zapor srečali
02:53
not only would you meet 12-year-old boys,
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ne samo dvanajstletne fante,
02:55
you'd meet women and you'd say,
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ampak tudi ženske; vprašali smo jih
02:57
"Why are you here?" Women would say,
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"Zakaj ste tu?" Ženske so odvrnile:
02:59
"Well I've been here for 10 years because
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"Tu sem že deset let, ker je moj mož
03:01
my husband committed a crime, but they can't find him."
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zagrešil zločin, ampak ga ne morejo najti."
03:03
So it's just a place where there was no rule of law.
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Gre za prostor, kjer vladavina prava ni obstajala.
03:06
The first group of defenders came together
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Prva skupina zagovornikov je prišla skupaj
03:08
and I still remember, as I was training, I said,
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in še se spomnim treninga, na katerem sem rekla:
03:10
"Okay, what do you do for an investigation?"
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"Ok, kako izvajate preiskavo?"
03:12
And there was silence in the class, and finally
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V razredu je nastala tišina in končno
03:14
one woman stood up, [inaudible name],
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je ena od žensk vstala [ime ni razumljivo]
03:16
and she said "Khrew," which means "teacher."
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in dejala "Khrew", kar pomeni "učitelj".
03:19
She said, "I have defended more than
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Rekla je: "Branila sem več kot sto ljudi
03:22
a hundred people, and I've never had to do
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in nikoli mi ni bilo treba
03:25
any investigation,
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izvesti preiskave,
03:27
because they all come with confessions."
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saj vsi pridejo s priznanjem."
03:29
And we talked about, as a class, the fact that
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Kot razred smo se pogovarjali o tem, da
03:32
number one, the confessions
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prvič, priznanja morda niso zanesljiva,
03:34
might not be reliable, but number two,
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in drugič,
03:36
we did not want to encourage the police
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da nočemo spodbujati policije,
03:38
to keep doing this, especially
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naj to še naprej počne, še posebej
03:40
as it was now against the law.
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ker je protizakonito.
03:42
And it took a lot of courage for these
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Ti zagovorniki so potrebovali
03:44
defenders to decide that they would
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veliko poguma, da so začeli
03:46
begin to stand up and support each other
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braniti in podpirati drug drugega
03:48
in implementing these laws.
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pri izvajanju teh zakonov.
03:51
And I still remember the first cases where
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Še se spomnim prvih primerov, ko
03:53
they came, all 25 together, she would
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je vseh 25 skupaj prišlo na obravnavo,
03:55
stand up, and they were in the back, and
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ena je vstala, ostali so bili v ozadju,
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they would support her, and the judges kept
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da bi jo podprli, sodniki pa so govorili:
03:59
saying, "No, no, no, no, we're going to do things
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"Ne, ne, ne, ne, stvari bomo počeli
04:01
the exact same way we've been doing them."
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natanko tako kot doslej."
04:03
But one day the perfect case came, and it
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A nekoč je prišel popoln primer,
04:05
was a woman who was a vegetable seller,
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šlo je za prodajalko zelenjave,
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she was sitting outside of a house.
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ki je sedela pred hišo.
04:09
She said she actually saw the person
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Dejala je, da je videla nekoga
04:12
run out who she thinks stole
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priteči ven, za katerega je menila, da je ukradel
04:14
whatever the jewelry was, but the police
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neke vrste nakit, a prišla je policija
04:16
came, they got her, there was nothing on her.
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in jo prijela, vendar ničesar niso našli.
04:18
She was pregnant at the time. She had
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Takrat je bila noseča. Telo je imela
04:20
cigarette burns on her. She'd miscarried.
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ožgano od cigaret. Splavila je.
04:22
And when they brought her case
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In ko je njen primer prišel pred sodnika,
04:24
to the judge, for the first time he stood up
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je ta prvič sploh vstal in dejal:
04:26
and he said, "Yes, there's no evidence
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"Res, ni nobenega dokaza,
04:28
except for your torture confession
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razen vašega priznanja, da se je zgodilo mučenje,
04:30
and you will be released."
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in izpuščeni ste."
04:32
And the defenders began to take cases
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Zagovorniki so začeli sprejemati
04:34
over and over again and
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nove in nove primere in
04:36
you will see, they have step by step began
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kot boste videli, so zlagoma začeli
04:39
to change the course of history in Cambodia.
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spreminjati tok zgodovine v Kambodži.
04:42
But Cambodia is not alone.
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Vendar Kambodža ni osamljena.
04:44
I used to think, well is it Cambodia?
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Spraševala sem se, mar gre za Kambodžo?
04:46
Or is it other countries?
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Ali gre za druge države?
04:48
But it is in so many countries.
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A dogaja se v tako veliko državah.
04:51
In Burundi I walked into a prison and it wasn't
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V Burundiju sem obiskala zapor in nisem srečala
04:53
a 12-year-old boy, it was an 8-year-old boy
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dvanajstletnega, pač pa osemletnega fanta,
04:56
for stealing a mobile phone.
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ki je ukradel mobilni telefon.
04:58
Or a woman, I picked up her baby,
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Ali žensko, katere dojenčka sem vzela v roke,
05:00
really cute baby, I said "Your baby is so cute."
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res srčkan dojenček. Rekla sem: "Vaš otročiček je tako lep."
05:03
It wasn't a baby, she was three.
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Saj ni bil dojenček, punčka je imela tri leta.
05:05
And she said "Yeah, but she's why I'm here,"
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In odgovorila je: "Ja, ampak zaradi nje sem tu,"
05:07
because she was accused of stealing
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kajti obtožili so jo kraje
05:09
two diapers and an iron for her baby and
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dveh plenic ter likalnika za svojega otroka
05:11
still had been in prison.
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in še vedno je bila v zaporu.
05:13
And when I walked up to the prison director,
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In ko sem odšla k direktorju zapora,
05:15
I said, "You've got to let her out.
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sem dejala: "Morate jo izpustiti.
05:17
A judge would let her out."
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Sodnik bi jo izpustil."
05:19
And he said, "Okay, we can talk about it,
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In rekel je: "Prav, lahko se pogovoriva o tem,
05:21
but look at my prison. Eighty percent
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ampak poglejte tale zapor. 80 odstotkov
05:23
of the two thousand people here
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od dva tisoč ljudi tule
05:25
are without a lawyer. What can we do?"
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nima odvetnika. Kaj lahko storimo?"
05:27
So lawyers began to courageously
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Tako so odvetniki začeli pogumno
05:29
stand up together to organize a system
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sodelovati, da bi organizirali sistem,
05:32
where they can take cases.
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v katerem bi lahko sprejemali primere.
05:34
But we realized that it's not only the training
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A ugotovili smo, da ni potrebno samo usposabljanje
05:36
of the lawyers, but the connection
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odvetnikov, temveč povezava med njimi,
05:38
of the lawyers that makes a difference.
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to naredi pomembno razliko.
05:40
For example, in Cambodia, it was that
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V Kambodži, denimo,
05:42
[inaudible name] did not go alone
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[ime ni razumljivo] ni bila sama,
05:44
but she had 24 lawyers with her
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z njo je bilo 24 odvetnikov,
05:46
who stood up together. And in the same way,
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ki so nastopili skupaj. Na enak način
05:48
in China, they always tell me,
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to poteka na Kitajskem, vedno slišim:
05:50
"It's like a fresh wind in the desert
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"Kot svež veter v puščavi je,
05:52
when we can come together."
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ko pridemo skupaj."
05:54
Or in Zimbabwe, where I remember Innocent,
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Ali v Zimbabveju, kjer se spominjam Innocenta,
05:56
after coming out of a prison where everybody
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potem ko je prišel iz zapora, v katerem so
05:58
stood up and said, "I've been here
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vsi skupaj rekli: "Tu sem že
06:00
for one year, eight years, 12 years
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leto dni, osem let, dvanajst let
06:02
without a lawyer,"
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brez odvetnika,"
06:04
he came and we had a training together
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prišel je in skupaj sva izvedla trening
06:06
and he said, "I have heard it said" --
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in dejal je: "Slišal sem govoriti"...
06:09
because he had heard people mumbling
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kajti ljudi je slišal mrmrati in godrnjati...
06:11
and grumbling -- "I have heard it said that
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"Slišal sem, da
06:13
we cannot help to create justice
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ne moremo pomagati ustvarjati pravice,
06:16
because we do not have the resources."
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ker nimamo sredstev."
06:18
And then he said, "But I want you to know
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In potem je rekel: "Ampak želim, da veste,
06:20
that the lack of resources
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da pomanjkanje sredstev
06:23
is never an excuse for injustice."
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ni nikakršen izgovor za nepravičnost."
06:25
And with that, he successfully
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Tako je uspešno
06:27
organized 68 lawyers who have been
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organiziral 68 odvetnikov, ki zdaj
06:30
systematically taking the cases.
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sistematično sprejemajo primere.
06:32
The key that we see, though, is training
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Ključna stvar pa je, kot kaže, usposabljanje
06:35
and then early access.
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in nato zgodnji dostop.
06:37
I was recently in Egypt, and was inspired
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Nedavno sem bila v Egiptu, navdušena
06:39
to meet with another group of lawyers,
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nad srečanjem s skupino pravnikov,
06:41
and what they told me is that they said,
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ki so mi povedali:
06:43
"Hey, look, we don't have police
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"Glejte, na ulicah sedaj ni policije.
06:45
on the streets now. The police are
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Policija je eden od glavnih razlogov
06:47
one of the main reasons why we had
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za to, da smo imeli revolucijo.
06:49
the revolution. They were torturing everybody
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V tistem času
06:51
all the time."
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so mučili vsakogar."
06:53
And I said, "But there's been tens of millions
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Odvrnila sem: "Ampak na desetine milijonov
06:55
of dollars that have recently gone in
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dolarjev je nedavno šlo za
06:57
to the development of the legal system here.
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razvoj tukajšnjega pravnega sistema.
06:59
What's going on?"
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Kaj se dogaja?"
07:01
I met with one of the development agencies,
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Srečala sem se z eno od razvojnih agencij,
07:04
and they were training prosecutors
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ki usposablja tožilce in sodnike,
07:06
and judges, which is the normal bias,
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kar je običajna praksa,
07:08
as opposed to defenders.
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v nasprotju z usposabljanjem zagovornikov.
07:10
And they showed me a manual which
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Pokazali so mi priročnik,
07:12
actually was an excellent manual.
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ki je bil pravzaprav odličen.
07:14
I said, "I'm gonna copy this."
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Rekla sem: "Tole bom skopirala."
07:16
It had everything in it. Lawyers can come
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Vse je imel. Odvetniki smejo priti
07:18
at the police station. It was perfect.
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na policijsko postajo. Popoln je bil.
07:20
Prosecutors were perfectly trained.
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Tožilci so bili odlično usposobljeni.
07:22
But I said to them, "I just have one question,
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Potem sem jim rekla: "Imam samo eno vprašanje.
07:24
which is, by the time that everybody got to
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Kaj se zgodi z ljudmi,
07:26
the prosecutor's office, what had happened to them?"
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preden dosežejo tožilčevo pisarno?"
07:28
And after a pause, they said,
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Po premolku so dejali:
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"They had been tortured."
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"Mučili so jih."
07:32
So the pieces are,
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Sestavni deli so torej
07:34
not only the training of the lawyers, but
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ne samo usposabljanje pravnikov, ampak
07:36
us finding a way to systematically implement
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najti način, kako sistematično izvajati
07:39
early access to counsel, because they are
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zgodnji dostop do obrambe, saj je to
07:42
the safeguard in the system
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varovalka v sistemu
07:44
for people who are being tortured.
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za ljudi, ki jih mučijo.
07:47
And as I tell you this, I'm also aware of the
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In ko vam to pravim, se tudi zavedam, da
07:49
fact that it sounds like, "Oh, okay, it sounds
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se sliši kot "oh, prav, zdi se, da bi to lahko naredili,
07:51
like we could do it, but can we really do it?"
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ampak ali to res lahko naredimo?"
07:54
Because it sounds big.
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Kajti sliši se gromozansko.
07:56
And there are many reasons why I believe it's possible.
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In veliko razlogov je, zaradi katerih verjamem, da je mogoče.
07:59
The first reason is the people on the ground
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Prvi je, da obstajajo ljudje,
08:02
who find ways of creating miracles
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ki najdejo način za dosego čudežev,
08:05
because of their commitment.
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ker so tako predani.
08:07
It's not only Innocent, who I told you about
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Ne gre samo za Innocenta iz Zimbabveja,
08:10
in Zimbabwe, but defenders all over the world
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ki sem ga omenila, ampak za zagovornike po vsem svetu,
08:13
who are looking for these pieces.
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ki iščejo koščke te sestavljanke.
08:16
We have a program called JusticeMakers,
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Imamo program z imenom JusticeMakers (tvorci pravice)
08:19
and we realized there are people that are
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in ugotovili smo, da obstajajo pogumni ljudje,
08:21
courageous and want to do things, but
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ki hočejo nekaj narediti,
08:23
how can we support them?
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ampak kako jih lahko podpremo?
08:25
So it's an online contest where it's only
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Gre za spletno tekmovanje z nagrado le
08:27
five thousand dollars if you come up with
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5000 dolarjev, če razvijete
08:29
and innovative way of implementing justice.
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inovativen način izvajanja pravice.
08:31
And there are 30 JusticeMakers
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Po vsem svetu je 30 JusticeMaker-jev,
08:33
throughout the world, from Sri Lanka
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od Šri Lanke do Svazilanda
08:35
to Swaziland to the DRC, who with
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in Demokratične republike Kongo,
08:38
five thousand dollars do amazing things,
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ki s 5000 dolarji delajo čudovite reči,
08:41
through SMS programs,
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skozi SMS programe,
08:43
through paralegal programs,
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skozi paralegalne programe,
08:45
through whatever they can do.
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skozi kakršnokoli sredstvo pač lahko.
08:47
And it's not only these JusticeMakers,
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In ne gre samo zanje,
08:51
but people we courageously see
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ampak za ljudi, ki pogumno
08:53
figure out who their networks are
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ugotavljajo, kdo je v njihovem omrežju
08:56
and how they can move it forward.
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in kako ga lahko izboljšajo.
08:58
So in China, for instance, great laws
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Na Kitajskem, na primer, so dosegli
09:00
came out where it says police cannot
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odlične zakone, ki pravijo, da policija ne sme
09:03
torture people or they will be punished.
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mučiti ljudi, sicer bo kaznovana.
09:06
And I was sitting side by side with one of our
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Sedela sem poleg enega naših
09:09
very courageous lawyers, and said,
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zelo pogumnih pravnikov in rekla:
09:12
"How can we get this out? How can we
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"Kako lahko tole spravimo v javnost? Kako lahko zagotovimo,
09:14
make sure that this is implemented?
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da se bo uresničevalo?
09:16
This is fantastic." And he said to me,
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To je fantastično." Odgovoril je:
09:18
"Well, do you have money?" And I said,
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"Hm, imaš denar?" In dejala sem: "Ne."
09:20
"No." And he said, "That's okay,
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Potem je rekel: "V redu,
09:22
we can still figure it out."
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si bomo že nekaj izmislili."
09:24
And on December 4, he organized
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In četrtega decembra je organiziral
09:26
three thousand members
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tri tisoč članov
09:28
of the Youth Communist League,
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podmladka Zveze komunistov
09:30
from 14 of the top law schools,
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s 14 najboljših pravnih fakultet,
09:32
who organized themselves, developed
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ki so se organizirali,
09:34
posters with the new laws, and went
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napravili posterje z novimi zakoni in
09:36
to the police stations and began what he says
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šli na policijske postaje ter začeli, kot sam pravi,
09:38
is a non-violent legal revolution
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nenasilno pravno revolucijo
09:41
to protect citizen rights.
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za zaščito državljanskih pravic.
09:44
So I talked about the fact that we need
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Govorila sem o tem, da je treba
09:46
to train and support defenders.
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usposobiti in podpreti zagovornike.
09:48
We need to systematically implement
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Sistematično moramo izvajati
09:50
early access to counsel.
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zgodnji dostop do obrambe.
09:52
But the third and most important thing is that
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Tretja najpomembnejša stvar pa je
09:54
we make a commitment to this.
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zaveza.
09:56
And people often say to me, "You know,
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Ljudje mi pogosto rečejo: "Veste,
09:58
this is great, but it's wildly idealistic.
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to je krasno, ampak je noro idealistično.
10:00
Never going to happen."
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Nikoli se ne bo zgodilo."
10:02
And the reason that I think that
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Mislim, da so te besede zanimive,
10:04
those words are interesting is because
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kajti to so bile
10:06
those were the same kinds of words
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enake besede, kot tiste,
10:08
that were used for people who decided
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ki so jih izrekali ljudem, ki so se odločili
10:10
they would end slavery, or end apartheid.
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za ukinitev suženjstva ali konec apartheida.
10:12
It began with a small group of people
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Začelo se je z majhno skupino ljudi,
10:14
who decided they would commit.
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ki so se zavezali k nečemu.
10:16
Now, there's one of our favorite poems
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Ena najljubših pesmi,
10:18
from the defenders, which they share
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ki si jih delijo zagovorniki,
10:20
from each other, is:
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gre takole:
10:22
"Take courage friends, the road is often long,
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"Prijatelji, bodite pogumni, pot je pogosto dolga,
10:24
the path is never clear,
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pot ni vedno jasna
10:26
and the stakes are very high,
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in veliko je nevarnosti,
10:28
but deep down, you are not alone."
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a globoko v sebi nisi sam."
10:30
And I believe that if we can come together
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In verjamen, da če stopimo skupaj
10:33
as a world community to support not only
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kot svetovna skupnost in podpremo
10:35
defenders, but also everyone in the system
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ne samo zagovornike, pač pa vse dele sistema,
10:38
who is looking towards it,
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ki si za to prizadevajo,
10:40
we can end torture as an investigative tool.
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lahko ustavimo mučenje kot preiskovalno prakso.
10:43
I end always, because I'm sure the questions are --
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Vem, da imate vprašanja
10:45
and I'd be happy to talk to you
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in z veseljem se bom pogovorila z vami,
10:47
at any point -- "But what can I really do?"
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zato vedno končam takole: "Kaj lahko dejansko storim?"
10:49
Well, I would say this. First of all,
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Rekla bi takole. Prvič,
10:51
you know what you can do. But second of all,
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veste, kaj lahko naredite. In drugič,
10:53
I would leave you with the story of Vishna,
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naj vam povem zgodbo o Višni,
10:55
who actually was my inspiration
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ki me je navdihnil
10:58
for starting International Bridges to Justice.
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k ustanovitvi Mednarodnih mostov do pravice.
11:00
Vishna was a 4-year-old boy when I met him
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Ko sem ga spoznala, je bil Višna štiriletni deček,
11:03
who was born in a Cambodian prison
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rojen v kamboškem zaporu
11:05
in Kandal Province. But because he was
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v provinci Kandal. A ker je bil
11:08
born in the prison, everybody loved him,
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rojen v zaporu, so ga vsi imeli radi,
11:10
including the guards, so he was the only one
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tudi pazniki, zato je bil edini,
11:12
who was allowed to come
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ki je smel prihajati in odhajati
11:14
in and out of the bars.
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izza rešetk.
11:16
So, you know, there's bars. And by the time
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Veste, obstajajo rešetke.
11:18
that Vishna was getting bigger,
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In ko je Višna rasel,
11:20
which means what gets bigger? Your head gets bigger.
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in kaj pomeni rasti? Glava mu je rasla.
11:22
So he would come to the first bar,
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Prišel je do prve rešetke,
11:24
the second bar and then the third bar,
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do druge in potem tretje,
11:26
and then really slowly move his head
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potem pa je počasi obrnil glavo,
11:28
so he could fit through, and come back,
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da bi se lahko stlačil skozi in se vrnil,
11:30
third, second, first. And he would
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skozi tretjo, drugo, prvo.
11:32
grab my pinkie, because what he wanted
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In zagrabil je moj mezinec,
11:34
to do every day is he wanted to go visit.
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ker je vsak dan hotel iti na obisk.
11:36
You know, he never quite made it to
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Veste, ni mogel vseh obiskati v enem dnevu,
11:38
all of them every day, but he wanted to visit
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ampak hotel je obiskati
11:40
all 156 prisoners. And I would lift him,
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vseh 156 zapornikov. Jaz sem ga dvignila
11:42
and he would put his fingers through.
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in svoje prste je pomolil skozi.
11:44
Or if they were dark cells, it was like iron
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Če so bili v temnicah, je bilo kot bi se
11:46
corrugated, and he would put his fingers through.
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jeklo upognilo in on je potisnil prste skozi.
11:48
And most of the prisoners said that he was
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Večina zapornikov je povedala, da je bil
11:50
their greatest joy and their sunshine, and they
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njihovo največje veselje in njihovo sonce in
11:52
looked forward to him. And I was like,
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veselili so se ga. Mislila sem si,
11:54
here's Vishna. He's a 4-year-old boy.
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tule je Višna. Štiriletni otrok.
11:56
He was born in a prison with almost nothing,
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Rodil se je v zaporu skoraj brez vsega,
11:58
no material goods, but he had a sense of
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brez materialnih dobrin, a imel je občutek
12:00
his own heroic journey, which I believe
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za svoje lastno herojsko potovanje,
12:02
we are all born into. He said,
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ki nam je, tako mislim, vsem vrojen. Dejal je:
12:04
"Probably I can't do everything.
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"Verjetno ne morem narediti vsega.
12:06
But I'm one. I can do something.
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Ampak en sam sem. Lahko naredim nekaj.
12:08
And I will do the one thing that I can do."
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In naredil bom tisto, kar lahko."
12:10
So I thank you for having the prophetic
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Zahvaljujem se vam za vašo preroško
12:12
imagination to imagine the shaping
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domišljijo, da bi si zamislili
12:15
of a new world with us together,
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oblikovanje novega sveta skupaj z nami,
12:17
and invite you into this journey with us.
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in vabim vas na naše potovanje.
12:19
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
12:21
(Applause)
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(aplavz)
12:29
Thank you.
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Hvala.
12:31
(Applause)
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(aplavz)
12:33
Thank you.
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Hvala.
12:35
(Applause)
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(aplavz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Karen Tse - Anti-torture activistIn too many countries, it's still normal to torture prisoners for confessions and information. Karen Tse works to end that.
Why you should listen
A former public defender, Karen Tse developed an interest in the intersection of criminal law and human rights after observing Southeast Asian refugees held in a local prison without trial, often tortured to obtain "confessions." In 1994, she moved to Cambodia to train the country's first core group of public defenders. Under the auspices of the UN, she trained judges and prosecutors, and established the first arraignment court in Cambodia.
In 2000, Tse founded International Bridges to Justice to help create systemic change in criminal justice and promote basic rights of legal representation for defendants on the ground. Her foundation complements the work of witness groups, who do the equally vital work of advocacy, reports, photographs. Tse's group helps governments build new systems that respect individual rights. In IBJ's first years, she negotiated groundbreaking measures in judicial reform with the Chinese, Vietnamese and Cambodian governments. It now works in sixteen countries, including Rwanda, Burundi and India.
She says: "I believe it is possible to end torture in my lifetime."
Karen Tse | Speaker | TED.com