TED2013
Jared Diamond: How societies can grow old better
Jared Diamond: Kako se družbe lahko starajo na boljši način
Filmed:
Readability: 5.2
1,100,581 views
Najnovejši poskusi podaljšati človeško življenje nosijo v sebi določeno ironijo: ni mala malica biti star v družbi, ki je usmerjena v mladost. Starejši ljudje lahko ostanejo sami, brez dela in z malo denarja. V tem zanimivem govoru Jared Diamond prikaže, kako različne družbe ravnajo s svojimi starimi ljudmi - nekatere boljše, druge slabše - in predlaga, da vsi skupaj izkoristimo pomen izkušenj.
Jared Diamond - Civilization scholar
Jared Diamond investigates why cultures prosper or decline -- and what we can learn by taking a broad look across many kinds of societies. Full bio
Jared Diamond investigates why cultures prosper or decline -- and what we can learn by taking a broad look across many kinds of societies. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
To give me an idea of how many of you here
0
745
2229
Da bom bolje vedel,
00:14
may find what I'm about to tell you
1
2974
2122
koliko vas bo v moji zgodbi
00:17
of practical value,
2
5096
1625
videlo praktični pomen,
00:18
let me ask you please to raise your hands:
3
6721
2689
vas prosim, da odgovorite z dvigom roke:
00:21
Who here is either over 65 years old
4
9410
3567
Kdo od vas je bodisi starejši od 65 let
00:24
or hopes to live past age 65
5
12977
3769
ali si želi živeti dlje kot do 65. leta
00:28
or has parents or grandparents who did live
6
16746
2945
ali ima starše
ali stare starše, ki so bili
ali stare starše, ki so bili
00:31
or have lived past 65,
7
19691
1967
ali so starejši od 65 let?
00:33
raise your hands please. (Laughter)
8
21658
2585
Prosim, dvignite roko.
(Smeh)
(Smeh)
00:36
Okay. You are the people to whom my talk
9
24243
2154
Prav. Za vas bo moj govor
00:38
will be of practical value. (Laughter)
10
26397
2434
imel praktični pomen.
(Smeh)
(Smeh)
00:40
The rest of you
11
28831
1657
Za ostale med vami
00:42
won't find my talk personally relevant,
12
30488
1788
zgodba ne bo imela takega pomena,
00:44
but I think that you will still find the subject
13
32276
1914
a menim, da vas bo tema
00:46
fascinating.
14
34190
1647
vseeno navdušila.
00:47
I'm going to talk about growing older
15
35837
1632
Govoril bom o staranju
00:49
in traditional societies.
16
37469
2419
v tradicionalnih družbah.
00:51
This subject constitutes just one chapter
17
39888
2746
Tema predstavlja le eno poglavje
00:54
of my latest book, which compares
18
42634
2591
moje zadnje knjige, ki tradicionalne,
00:57
traditional, small, tribal societies
19
45225
3217
majhne plemenske družbe primerja
01:00
with our large, modern societies,
20
48442
2550
z našimi velikimi modernimi družbami,
01:02
with respect to many topics
21
50992
1625
in sicer v več pogledih,
01:04
such as bringing up children,
22
52617
1859
kot so denimo vzgoja otrok,
01:06
growing older, health, dealing with danger,
23
54476
3921
staranje, zdravje, soočanje z nevarnostjo,
01:10
settling disputes, religion
24
58397
2345
reševanje sporov, vera
01:12
and speaking more than one language.
25
60742
2791
in obvladanje več kot enega jezika.
01:15
Those tribal societies, which constituted
26
63533
2557
Plemenske družbe,
ki so bile večino zgodovine
ki so bile večino zgodovine
01:18
all human societies for most of human history,
27
66090
2985
edina oblika življenja človeške družbe,
01:21
are far more diverse than are our modern,
28
69075
3294
so veliko bolj raznolike kot naše moderne,
01:24
recent, big societies.
29
72369
2167
mlade, velike družbe.
01:26
All big societies that have governments,
30
74536
2363
Vse velike družbe, ki jih upravljajo vlade
01:28
and where most people are strangers to each other,
31
76899
2266
in kjer so si ljudje med seboj
večinoma tujci,
večinoma tujci,
01:31
are inevitably similar to each other
32
79165
2348
so si podobne,
01:33
and different from tribal societies.
33
81513
2848
a so drugačne od plemenskih družb.
01:36
Tribes constitute thousands of natural experiments
34
84361
3311
Plemena predstavljajo
na tisoče naravnih poskusov,
na tisoče naravnih poskusov,
01:39
in how to run a human society.
35
87672
2549
kako upravljati človeško družbo.
01:42
They constitute experiments from which we ourselves
36
90221
2807
So poskusi, iz katerih
01:45
may be able to learn.
37
93028
2402
se lahko tudi mi učimo.
01:47
Tribal societies shouldn't be scorned
38
95430
2020
Plemenskih družb ne velja zaničevati
01:49
as primitive and miserable,
39
97450
1736
kot primitivne in uboge,
01:51
but also they shouldn't be romanticized
40
99186
2371
a tudi olepševati jih ni treba,
01:53
as happy and peaceful.
41
101557
2217
kot da so srečne in miroljubne.
01:55
When we learn of tribal practices,
42
103774
2259
Ko spoznavamo plemenske navade,
01:58
some of them will horrify us,
43
106033
1774
se bomo ob določenih zgrozili,
01:59
but there are other tribal practices which,
44
107807
2550
obstajajo pa tudi take,
02:02
when we hear about them,
45
110357
1349
ki jih bomo, ko jih spoznamo,
02:03
we may admire and envy
46
111706
1947
občudovali in jim zavidali
02:05
and wonder whether we could adopt those practices
47
113653
2224
ter se vprašali, ali jih ne bi mogli
02:07
ourselves.
48
115877
2697
tudi mi osvojiti.
02:10
Most old people in the U.S. end up living
49
118574
3087
Večina starih ljudi v ZDA
02:13
separately from their children
50
121661
1987
živi ločeno od svojih otrok
02:15
and from most of their friends
51
123648
1506
in od večine svojih prijateljev
02:17
of their earlier years,
52
125154
1692
iz preteklih let.
02:18
and often they live in separate
retirements homes for the elderly,
retirements homes for the elderly,
53
126846
3854
Pogosto živijo
v ločenih domovih za ostarele,
v ločenih domovih za ostarele,
02:22
whereas in traditional societies,
54
130700
2208
medtem ko v tradicionalnih družbah
02:24
older people instead live out their lives
55
132908
2834
stari ljudje preživijo življenje
02:27
among their children, their other relatives,
56
135742
2166
med svojimi otroki, drugimi sorodniki
02:29
and their lifelong friends.
57
137908
2397
in prijatelji.
02:32
Nevertheless, the treatment of the elderly
58
140305
2169
Vendar pa se obnašanje do starejših
02:34
varies enormously among traditional societies,
59
142474
3165
v tradicionalnih družbah zelo razlikuje –
02:37
from much worse to much better
60
145639
2181
od veliko slabšega do veliko boljšega –
02:39
than in our modern societies.
61
147820
2958
od obnašanja v modernih družbah.
02:42
At the worst extreme, many traditional societies
62
150778
2797
V najslabšem primeru se mnoge
tradicionalne družbe
tradicionalne družbe
02:45
get rid of their elderly
63
153575
1813
svojih starejših znebijo
02:47
in one of four increasingly direct ways:
64
155388
3531
na enega od štirih načinov, kjer je vsak
bolj neposreden od prejšnjega:
bolj neposreden od prejšnjega:
02:50
by neglecting their elderly
65
158919
1663
starejše zapostavljajo,
02:52
and not feeding or cleaning them until they die,
66
160582
3429
jih ne hranijo ali umivajo,
dokler ne umrejo,
dokler ne umrejo,
02:56
or by abandoning them when the group moves,
67
164011
3054
jih ne vzamejo s seboj,
ko se skupina preseli,
ko se skupina preseli,
02:59
or by encouraging older people to commit suicide,
68
167065
3139
jih spodbujajo k samomoru,
03:02
or by killing older people.
69
170204
3045
ali jih ubijejo.
03:05
In which tribal societies do children
70
173249
2749
V katerih plemenskih družbah
03:07
abandon or kill their parents?
71
175998
2386
otroci zapustijo ali ubijejo svoje starše?
03:10
It happens mainly under two conditions.
72
178384
3024
Večinoma se zgodi v dveh primerih.
03:13
One is in nomadic, hunter-gather societies
73
181408
2980
Eno so nomadske,
lovsko-nabiralniške družbe,
lovsko-nabiralniške družbe,
03:16
that often shift camp
74
184388
1723
ki se pogosto selijo
03:18
and that are physically incapable
75
186111
2179
in fizično ne morejo
03:20
of transporting old people who can't walk
76
188290
3123
nositi starih, ki ne morejo hoditi,
03:23
when the able-bodied younger people already
77
191413
2560
saj morajo zdravi mlajši ljudje
03:25
have to carry their young children
78
193973
1935
nositi svoje majhne otroke
03:27
and all their physical possessions.
79
195908
2818
in vso svojo lastnino.
03:30
The other condition is in societies
80
198726
2164
Drugi primer so družbe,
03:32
living in marginal or fluctuating environments,
81
200890
3310
ki živijo v marginalnih
ali spremenljivih okoljih,
ali spremenljivih okoljih,
03:36
such as the Arctic or deserts,
82
204200
2333
kot so Arktika ali puščave,
03:38
where there are periodic food shortages,
83
206533
2584
kjer prihaja do občasnega
pomanjkanja hrane
pomanjkanja hrane
03:41
and occasionally there just isn't enough food
84
209117
1929
in od časa do časa
preprosto ni dovolj hrane,
preprosto ni dovolj hrane,
03:43
to keep everyone alive.
85
211046
2480
da bi vsi preživeli.
03:45
Whatever food is available has to be reserved
86
213526
2424
Hrana, ki je na voljo,
mora biti namenjena
mora biti namenjena
03:47
for able-bodied adults and for children.
87
215950
4325
zdravim odraslim in otrokom.
03:52
To us Americans, it sounds horrible
88
220275
2900
Nam, Američanom, se zdi grozno
03:55
to think of abandoning or killing
89
223175
2233
pomisliti na to,
da bi zapustili ali ubili
da bi zapustili ali ubili
03:57
your own sick wife or husband
90
225408
2181
lastno bolno ženo ali moža
03:59
or elderly mother or father,
91
227589
2299
ali ostarelo mater ali očeta,
04:01
but what could those traditional societies
92
229888
3759
toda kako bi te tradicionalne družbe
04:05
do differently?
93
233647
1483
lahko delovale drugače?
04:07
They face a cruel situation of no choice.
94
235130
3820
Pred seboj imajo kruto resničnost
in nobene izbire.
in nobene izbire.
04:10
Their old people had to do it to their own parents,
95
238950
2995
Njihovi stari ljudje so morali
enako storiti svojim staršem
enako storiti svojim staršem
04:13
and the old people know
96
241945
1288
in stari ljudje vedo,
04:15
what now is going to happen to them.
97
243233
3151
kaj se bo zgodilo z njimi.
04:18
At the opposite extreme
98
246384
1814
Druga skrajnost
04:20
in treatment of the elderly, the happy extreme,
99
248198
2679
pri ravnanju s starejšimi,
srečna skrajnost,
srečna skrajnost,
je v navadi med kmetijskimi družbami
na Novi Gvineji,
na Novi Gvineji,
04:22
are the New Guinea farming societies
100
250877
1987
04:24
where I've been doing my fieldwork
for the past 50 years,
for the past 50 years,
101
252864
2997
kjer delam na terenu zadnjih 50 let,
04:27
and most other sedentary traditional societies
102
255861
3247
ter v večini drugih
stalno naseljenih družb
stalno naseljenih družb
04:31
around the world.
103
259108
2086
po vsem svetu.
04:33
In those societies, older people are cared for.
104
261194
2948
Te družbe skrbijo za stare ljudi.
04:36
They are fed. They remain valuable.
105
264142
2350
Hranijo jih. Priznavajo jim pomen.
04:38
And they continue to live in the same hut
106
266492
2188
In ti ljudje še vedno živijo v isti kolibi
04:40
or else in a nearby hut near their children,
107
268680
2687
s svojimi otroki, ali nekje blizu njih,
04:43
relatives and lifelong friends.
108
271367
3899
blizu sorodnikov in prijateljev.
04:47
There are two main sets of reasons for this variation
109
275266
2432
Dve skupini razlogov obstajata za razliko
04:49
among societies in their treatment
110
277698
2355
v tem, kako družbe ravnajo
04:52
of old people.
111
280053
1397
s starimi ljudmi.
04:53
The variation depends especially
112
281450
1637
Razlika je odvisna predvsem
04:55
on the usefulness of old people
113
283087
2270
od tega, kako koristni so stari ljudje
04:57
and on the society's values.
114
285357
2713
in kakšne so družbene vrednote.
05:00
First, as regards usefulness,
115
288070
2323
V smislu koristnosti
05:02
older people continue to perform useful services.
116
290393
3455
stari ljudje še naprej opravljajo
uporabna dela.
uporabna dela.
05:05
One use of older people in traditional societies
117
293848
2685
Eden od prispevkov starih ljudi v
tradicionalnih družbah
tradicionalnih družbah
05:08
is that they often are still effective
118
296533
2000
je v tem, da pogosto še vedno
05:10
at producing food.
119
298533
2413
lahko pripravljajo hrano.
05:12
Another traditional usefulness of older people
120
300946
2413
Druga tradicionalna korist
starih ljudi je,
starih ljudi je,
05:15
is that they are capable of babysitting
121
303359
3279
da lahko varujejo
05:18
their grandchildren,
122
306638
1694
svoje vnuke,
05:20
thereby freeing up their own adult children,
123
308332
2670
s čimer pustijo čas svojim otrokom,
05:23
the parents of those grandchildren,
124
311002
1871
staršem teh vnukov,
05:24
to go hunting and gathering
food for the grandchildren.
food for the grandchildren.
125
312873
3473
da gredo lovit in nabirat hrano za vnuke.
05:28
Still another traditional value of older people
126
316346
2205
Še ena tradicionalna
uporabnost starih ljudi
uporabnost starih ljudi
05:30
is in making tools, weapons, baskets,
127
318551
2920
je v izdelavi orodij, orožij, košar,
05:33
pots and textiles.
128
321471
1957
loncev in tekstila.
05:35
In fact, they're usually the people who are best at it.
129
323428
3249
Pravzaprav so ponavadi
najbolj vešči takih del.
najbolj vešči takih del.
05:38
Older people usually are the leaders
130
326677
2768
Starejši so ponavadi voditelji
05:41
of traditional societies,
131
329445
1849
tradicionalnih družb
05:43
and the people most knowledgeable about politics,
132
331294
3259
in se najbolj spoznajo na politiko,
05:46
medicine, religion, songs and dances.
133
334553
3999
medicino, vero, pesmi in ples.
05:50
Finally, older people in traditional societies
134
338552
2452
Konec koncev je pomen starih ljudi
05:53
have a huge significance that would never occur
135
341004
3927
v tradicionalnih družbah tudi v nečem,
05:56
to us in our modern, literate societies,
136
344931
3676
kar v modernih pismenih družbah
ni potrebno,
ni potrebno,
06:00
where our sources of information are books
137
348607
2415
saj so naši viri informacij knjige
06:03
and the Internet.
138
351022
1684
in internet.
06:04
In contrast, in traditional societies without writing,
139
352706
3423
V tradicionalnih družbah brez pisnih virov
06:08
older people are the repositories of information.
140
356129
3686
starejši ljudje hranijo informacije.
06:11
It's their knowledge that spells the difference
141
359815
2565
Njihovo znanje pomeni razliko
06:14
between survival and death for their whole society
142
362380
3750
med preživetjem in smrtjo celotne družbe,
06:18
in a time of crisis caused by rare events
143
366130
3258
kadar pride do krize
zaradi redkih dogodkov,
zaradi redkih dogodkov,
06:21
for which only the oldest people alive
144
369388
2595
v katerih imajo izkušnje
06:23
have had experience.
145
371983
2289
samo najstarejši ljudje.
06:26
Those, then, are the ways in which older people
146
374272
2470
Na take načine so torej starejši
06:28
are useful in traditional societies.
147
376742
2903
uporabni v tradicionalnih družbah.
06:31
Their usefulness varies and contributes
148
379645
2562
Njihova koristnost
se razlikuje in pripomore
se razlikuje in pripomore
06:34
to variation in the society's treatment
149
382207
2618
k raznolikosti v tem, kako družba
06:36
of the elderly.
150
384825
2000
obravnava starejše.
06:38
The other set of reasons for variation
151
386825
1819
Druga skupina razlogov za razlike
06:40
in the treatment of the elderly is
152
388644
1875
pri obnašanju do starejših
06:42
the society's cultural values.
153
390519
3235
leži v kulturnih vrednotah družbe.
06:45
For example, there's particular emphasis
154
393754
2026
Na primer, v Vzhodni Aziji
velik pomen dajejo
velik pomen dajejo
06:47
on respect for the elderly in East Asia,
155
395780
3209
spoštovanju starejših,
06:50
associated with Confucius' doctrine
156
398989
2911
kar je povezano s Konfucijevo doktrino
06:53
of filial piety, which means obedience,
157
401900
3550
o predanosti otrok, kar pomeni uboganje,
06:57
respect and support for elderly parents.
158
405450
4094
spoštovanje in podpiranje starejših ljudi.
07:01
Cultural values that emphasize
respect for older people
respect for older people
159
409544
3713
Kulturne vrednote, ki izpostavljajo
spoštovanje starejših,
spoštovanje starejših,
07:05
contrast with the low status of the elderly
160
413257
2817
so v nasprotju
z nizkim položajem starejših
z nizkim položajem starejših
07:08
in the U.S.
161
416074
2162
v ZDA.
07:10
Older Americans are at a big disadvantage
162
418236
2558
Starejši Američani so v slabšem položaju
07:12
in job applications.
163
420794
2113
pri potegovanju za službe.
07:14
They're at a big disadvantage in hospitals.
164
422907
2535
V slabšem položaju so v bolnišnicah.
07:17
Our hospitals have an explicit policy
165
425442
2623
Naše bolnišnice izrecno sledijo
07:20
called age-based allocation of healthcare resources.
166
428065
4967
principu dodeljevanja zdravstvenih sredstev
glede na starost.
glede na starost.
07:25
That sinister expression means that
167
433032
2773
Ta temačni pristop pomeni,
07:27
if hospital resources are limited,
168
435805
2206
da če so bolnišnični viri omejeni,
07:30
for example if only one donor heart
169
438011
2050
denimo če je na voljo za presaditev
07:32
becomes available for transplant,
170
440061
2298
le srce enega darovalca,
07:34
or if a surgeon has time to operate
171
442359
2102
ali če ima kirurg čas operirati
07:36
on only a certain number of patients,
172
444461
2511
samo določeno število bolnikov,
07:38
American hospitals have an explicit policy
173
446972
2950
ameriške bolnišnice
sledijo izrecni politiki
sledijo izrecni politiki
07:41
of giving preference to younger patients
174
449922
2320
dajanja prednosti mladim bolnikom
07:44
over older patients
175
452242
1480
in ne starejšim,
07:45
on the grounds that younger patients are considered
176
453722
3244
saj naj bi bili mlajši bolniki
07:48
more valuable to society
177
456966
1817
za družbo vredni več,
07:50
because they have more years of life ahead of them,
178
458783
2645
ker imajo pred seboj daljše življenje,
07:53
even though the younger patients have fewer years
179
461428
2660
čeprav imajo mlajši za seboj
07:56
of valuable life experience behind them.
180
464088
3982
manj let koristnih izkušenj.
08:00
There are several reasons for this low status
181
468070
2228
Za tako nizek položaj starejših v ZDA
08:02
of the elderly in the U.S.
182
470298
2342
obstaja več razlogov.
08:04
One is our Protestant work ethic
183
472640
3185
Eden je v naši
protestantski delovni etiki,
protestantski delovni etiki,
08:07
which places high value on work,
184
475825
2313
ki daje veliko vrednost delu,
08:10
so older people who are no longer working
185
478138
2223
zato starejši, ki ne delajo več,
08:12
aren't respected.
186
480361
1983
niso spoštovani.
08:14
Another reason is our American emphasis
187
482344
2857
Še en razlog leži v ameriškem poudarku
08:17
on the virtues of self-reliance and independence,
188
485201
3383
na vrednotah samozadostnosti
in samostojnosti,
in samostojnosti,
08:20
so we instinctively look down on older people
189
488584
3069
zato nagonsko manj cenimo starejše,
08:23
who are no longer self-reliant and independent.
190
491653
3597
ki niso več samozadostni in samostojni.
08:27
Still a third reason is our American cult of youth,
191
495250
4101
Tretji razlog je ameriški kult mladosti,
08:31
which shows up even in our advertisements.
192
499351
2808
ki se kaže celo v oglaševanju.
08:34
Ads for Coca-Cola and beer always depict
193
502159
3264
Oglasi za kokakolo in pivo
vedno prikazujejo
vedno prikazujejo
08:37
smiling young people,
194
505423
1555
smehljajoče se mlade ljudi,
08:38
even though old as well as young people
195
506978
1970
čeprav tako stari kot mladi
08:40
buy and drink Coca-Cola and beer.
196
508948
2322
kupujejo in pijejo kokakolo in pivo.
08:43
Just think, what's the last time you saw
197
511270
2003
Pomislite, kdaj ste nazadnje videli
08:45
a Coke or beer ad depicting smiling people
198
513273
2677
oglas za kolo ali pivo,
s katerega se smehljajo
s katerega se smehljajo
08:47
85 years old? Never.
199
515950
2949
85-letniki? Nikoli.
08:50
Instead, the only American ads
200
518899
1806
Namesto tega so edini ameriški oglasi,
08:52
featuring white-haired old people
201
520705
2006
v katerih nastopajo belolasi stari ljudje,
08:54
are ads for retirement homes and pension planning.
202
522711
3865
tisti za domove za ostarele
in za načrtovanje pokojnine.
in za načrtovanje pokojnine.
08:58
Well, what has changed in the status
203
526576
2050
Kaj je danes drugače
09:00
of the elderly today
204
528626
1983
pri statusu starejših
09:02
compared to their status in traditional societies?
205
530609
3389
v primerjavi s tistim
v tradicionalnih družbah?
v tradicionalnih družbah?
09:05
There have been a few changes for the better
206
533998
1870
Nekaj stvari se je izboljšalo,
09:07
and more changes for the worse.
207
535868
2205
nekaj pa poslabšalo.
09:10
Big changes for the better
208
538073
1601
Velike spremembe na boljše so,
09:11
include the fact that today we enjoy
209
539674
2151
da danes
09:13
much longer lives,
210
541825
1984
živimo veliko dlje,
09:15
much better health in our old age,
211
543809
2294
v starosti smo bolj zdravi
09:18
and much better recreational opportunities.
212
546103
3638
in imamo boljše možnosti za rekreacijo.
09:21
Another change for the better is that we now have
213
549741
2270
Še ena izboljšava je, da imamo
09:24
specialized retirement facilities
214
552011
2840
specializirane storitve in programe
09:26
and programs to take care of old people.
215
554851
3351
za skrb za starejše.
09:30
Changes for the worse begin with the cruel reality
216
558202
2868
Na slabše pa gre zaradi krute realnosti,
09:33
that we now have
217
561070
1689
da imamo dandanes
09:34
more old people and fewer young people
218
562759
2574
več starih in manj mladih ljudi
09:37
than at any time in the past.
219
565333
2684
kot kadarkoli prej.
09:40
That means that all those old people
220
568017
1751
To pomeni, da so vsi ti stari ljudje
09:41
are more of a burden on the few young people,
221
569768
2425
večje breme za manj mladih ljudi
09:44
and that each old person has less individual value.
222
572193
4486
in vsak star posameznik ima manjšo
individualno vrednost.
individualno vrednost.
09:48
Another big change for the worse
in the status of the elderly
in the status of the elderly
223
576679
3184
Sprememba na slabše pri statusu starejših
je tudi v prekinitvi socialnih vezi,
ki jih prinese starost,
ki jih prinese starost,
09:51
is the breaking of social ties with age,
224
579863
2677
09:54
because older people, their children,
225
582540
1844
saj se starejši, njihovi otroci
09:56
and their friends,
226
584384
1316
in prijatelji
09:57
all move and scatter independently of each other
227
585700
2850
selijo in razpršijo neodvisno od drugih,
10:00
many times during their lives.
228
588550
2254
in to večkrat tekom življenja.
10:02
We Americans move on the average
229
590804
1813
Američani se povprečno preselimo
10:04
every five years.
230
592617
1953
vsakih pet let.
10:06
Hence our older people are likely
231
594570
2031
Zato naši starejši ljudje pogosto
10:08
to end up living distant from their children
232
596601
2307
pristanejo nekje daleč od otrok
10:10
and the friends of their youth.
233
598908
2803
ter od prijateljev iz mladosti.
10:13
Yet another change for the worse
in the status of the elderly
in the status of the elderly
234
601711
3162
Poslabšanje statusa starejših
10:16
is formal retirement from the workforce,
235
604873
3730
je povezano tudi z upokojitvijo,
10:20
carrying with it a loss of work friendships
236
608603
2750
ki prinese izgubo prijateljstev z dela
10:23
and a loss of the self-esteem associated with work.
237
611353
4140
ter izgubo samozavesti, povezane z delom.
10:27
Perhaps the biggest change for the worse
238
615493
2485
Največje poslabšanje
je morda v tem,
je morda v tem,
10:29
is that our elderly are objectively
239
617978
2873
da so starejši objektivno gledano
10:32
less useful than in traditional societies.
240
620851
3162
manj uporabni
kot v tradicionalnih družbah.
kot v tradicionalnih družbah.
10:36
Widespread literacy means that they are no longer
241
624013
2963
Razširjena pismenost pomeni,
10:38
useful as repositories of knowledge.
242
626976
2631
da niso več potrebni kot hranilci znanja.
10:41
When we want some information,
243
629607
1943
Kadar potrebujemo informacije,
10:43
we look it up in a book or we Google it
244
631550
2261
jih poiščemo v knjigi ali z googlom,
10:45
instead of finding some old person to ask.
245
633811
3470
namesto da bi šli vprašat starega človeka.
10:49
The slow pace of technological change
246
637281
2087
Počasen razvoj tehnologije
10:51
in traditional societies
247
639368
1822
v tradicionalnih družbah
10:53
means that what someone learns there as a child
248
641190
2850
pomeni, da kar se otrok nauči,
10:56
is still useful when that person is old,
249
644040
2659
bo še vedno uporabno, ko ostari.
10:58
but the rapid pace of technological change today
250
646699
3603
Današnji hiter tehnološki razvoj
11:02
means that what we learn as children
251
650302
2067
pa pomeni, da kar se naučimo kot otroci,
11:04
is no longer useful 60 years later.
252
652369
2890
60 let kasneje ni več uporabno.
11:07
And conversely, we older people are not fluent
253
655259
2379
In obratno, starejši nismo na tekočem
11:09
in the technologies essential for surviving
254
657638
3034
s tehnologijami, potrebnimi za preživetje
11:12
in modern society.
255
660672
1971
v moderni družbi.
11:14
For example, as a 15-year-old,
256
662643
2173
Kot petnajstletnik, na primer,
11:16
I was considered outstandingly
good at multiplying numbers
good at multiplying numbers
257
664816
3590
sem bil izjemno dober pri poštevanki,
11:20
because I had memorized the multiplication tables
258
668406
3195
ker sem se je naučil na pamet,
11:23
and I know how to use logarithms
259
671601
2145
in znal sem uporabljati logaritme
11:25
and I'm quick at manipulating a slide rule.
260
673746
2863
ter bil hiter pri uporabi ravnila.
11:28
Today, though, those skills are utterly useless
261
676609
3086
Danes so te veščine povsem neuporabne,
11:31
because any idiot
262
679695
2371
saj lahko vsak bebec
11:34
can now multiply eight-digit numbers
263
682066
2358
natančno zmnoži šestmestna števila
11:36
accurately and instantly with a pocket calculator.
264
684424
3187
v trenutku,
s pomočjo žepnega kalkulatorja.
s pomočjo žepnega kalkulatorja.
11:39
Conversely, I at age 75
265
687611
2170
Po drugi strani sem pri 75. letih
11:41
am incompetent at skills
266
689781
2664
nesposoben pri veščinah,
11:44
essential for everyday life.
267
692445
2454
nujnih v vsakdanjem življenju.
11:46
My family's first TV set in 1948
268
694899
2784
Prvi družinski televizor leta 1948
11:49
had only three knobs that I quickly mastered:
269
697683
3053
je imel samo tri gumbe,
ki sem jih hitro obvladal:
ki sem jih hitro obvladal:
11:52
an on-off switch, a volume knob,
270
700736
2750
gumb za prižiganje/ugašanje,
gumb za glasnost
gumb za glasnost
11:55
and a channel selector knob.
271
703486
2221
in gumb za izbiro kanala.
11:57
Today, just to watch a program
272
705707
2088
Danes za ogled programa
11:59
on the TV set in my own house,
273
707795
2456
na televiziji v svojem domu
12:02
I have to operate a 41-button TV remote
274
710251
3717
potrebujem daljinec z 41 gumbi,
12:05
that utterly defeats me.
275
713968
1982
kar me čisto uniči.
12:07
I have to telephone my 25-year-old sons
276
715950
3014
Poklicati moram 25-letne sinove
12:10
and ask them to talk me through it
277
718964
2197
in jih prositi, naj me vodijo,
12:13
while I try to push those wretched 41 buttons.
278
721161
4997
ko skušam obvladati
teh presnetih 41 gumbov.
teh presnetih 41 gumbov.
12:18
What can we do to improve the lives of the elderly
279
726158
2647
Kako lahko izboljšamo življenja starejših
12:20
in the U.S., and to make better use of their value?
280
728805
3454
v ZDA in bolje izkoristimo
njihovo vrednost?
njihovo vrednost?
12:24
That's a huge problem.
281
732259
1774
To je ogromen problem.
12:26
In my remaining four minutes today,
282
734033
2471
V preostalih štirih minutah,
ki so mi na voljo,
ki so mi na voljo,
12:28
I can offer just a few suggestions.
283
736504
2577
lahko ponudim le nekaj predlogov.
12:31
One value of older people is that they are
284
739081
1922
Starejši so pomembni zato,
12:33
increasingly useful as grandparents
285
741003
3444
ker so vse bolj koristni kot stari starši,
12:36
for offering high-quality childcare
286
744447
2507
ki lahko nudijo kakovostno varstvo
12:38
to their grandchildren, if they choose to do it,
287
746954
2653
svojim vnukom, če to želijo,
12:41
as more young women enter the workforce
288
749607
2849
saj je vedno več mladih žensk zaposlenih
12:44
and as fewer young parents of either gender
289
752456
2334
in ker vse manj mladih staršev obeh spolov
12:46
stay home as full-time caretakers of their children.
290
754790
3660
ostane doma, da bi skrbeli za otroke.
12:50
Compared to the usual alternatives
291
758450
2036
V primerjavi z običajnimi alternativami,
12:52
of paid babysitters and day care centers,
292
760486
3598
kot so plačane varuške in vrtci,
12:56
grandparents offer superior, motivated,
293
764084
3127
stari starši nudijo odlično, motivirano
12:59
experienced child care.
294
767211
2688
in izkušeno varstvo.
13:01
They've already gained experience
from raising their own children.
from raising their own children.
295
769899
3266
Izkušnje imajo že od vzgoje lastnih otrok.
13:05
They usually love their grandchildren,
296
773165
2344
Ponavadi imajo radi svoje vnuke
13:07
and are eager to spend time with them.
297
775509
2665
in si želijo biti z njimi.
13:10
Unlike other caregivers,
298
778174
1901
V nasprotju z drugimi varuhi
13:12
grandparents don't quit their job
299
780075
2897
stari starši ne pustijo službe,
13:14
because they found another job with higher pay
300
782972
2436
ker bi našli boljšo z višjo plačo
13:17
looking after another baby.
301
785408
3513
za varovanje nekega drugega otroka.
13:20
A second value of older people is paradoxically
302
788921
2404
Poleg tega so starejši ljudje,
paradoksalno,
paradoksalno,
13:23
related to their loss of value
303
791325
2661
pomembni zato, ker so izgubili pomen
13:25
as a result of changing world
conditions and technology.
conditions and technology.
304
793986
4073
zaradi spremenljivega sveta
in tehnologije.
in tehnologije.
13:30
At the same time, older people have gained
305
798059
2036
Starejši dobivajo pomen
13:32
in value today precisely because
306
800095
2311
prav zato,
13:34
of their unique experience of living conditions
307
802406
3109
ker imajo edinstvene izkušnje
življenja v pogojih,
življenja v pogojih,
13:37
that have now become rare
308
805515
1719
ki so zaradi hitrih sprememb
postali redkost,
postali redkost,
13:39
because of rapid change, but that could come back.
309
807234
3310
ki pa bi se lahko vrnili.
13:42
For example, only Americans now in their 70s
310
810544
2954
Denimo, samo Američani,
stari 70 ali več let,
stari 70 ali več let,
13:45
or older today can remember
311
813498
2260
se še spomnijo,
13:47
the experience of living through a great depression,
312
815758
3328
kako je bilo živeti
v času velike depresije,
v času velike depresije,
13:51
the experience of living through a world war,
313
819086
2638
v času svetovne vojne,
13:53
and agonizing whether or not
314
821724
2546
in v času, ko se je svet spraševal,
ali bi bilo huje
ali bi bilo huje
13:56
dropping atomic bombs would be more horrible
315
824270
3037
vreči atomsko bombo
13:59
than the likely consequences
of not dropping atomic bombs.
of not dropping atomic bombs.
316
827307
4113
ali se spopasti z verjetnimi posledicami
neuporabe atomske bombe.
neuporabe atomske bombe.
14:03
Most of our current voters and politicians
317
831420
2276
Večina trenutnih volivcev in politikov
14:05
have no personal experience of any of those things,
318
833696
2732
nima s tem nobenih osebnih izkušenj,
14:08
but millions of older Americans do.
319
836428
2695
milijoni starejših Američanov
pa jih imajo.
pa jih imajo.
14:11
Unfortunately, all of those terrible situations
320
839123
2651
Na žalost bi se lahko
vse te grozne okoliščine
vse te grozne okoliščine
14:13
could come back.
321
841774
1387
ponovile.
14:15
Even if they don't come back,
322
843161
1306
In tudi če se ne,
14:16
we have to be able to plan for them
323
844467
2192
moramo načrtovati odziv nanje
14:18
on the basis of the experience of what they were like.
324
846659
2811
na podlagi izkušenj z njimi.
14:21
Older people have that experience.
325
849470
1834
Starejši ljudje imajo take izkušnje.
14:23
Younger people don't.
326
851304
2053
Mladi jih nimajo.
14:25
The remaining value of older people
327
853357
1520
Zadnja vrednost starejših,
14:26
that I'll mention involves recognizing that
328
854877
2443
ki jo bom omenil, je priznavanje,
14:29
while there are many things that older people
329
857320
2580
da tudi če starejši ne morejo več
14:31
can no longer do,
330
859900
1606
početi mnogih stvari,
14:33
there are other things that they can do
331
861506
1489
nekatere lahko počnejo
14:34
better than younger people.
332
862995
2095
bolje kot mlajši.
14:37
A challenge for society is
to make use of those things
to make use of those things
333
865090
2896
Družba je pred izzivom, kako uporabiti to,
14:39
that older people are better at doing.
334
867986
2472
v čemer so starejši boljši.
14:42
Some abilities, of course, decrease with age.
335
870458
3249
Nekatere sposobnosti se
s starostjo zmanjšajo.
s starostjo zmanjšajo.
14:45
Those include abilities at tasks
336
873707
2638
To so sposobnosti za naloge,
14:48
requiring physical strength and stamina,
337
876345
3571
ki zahtevajo fizično moč in vztrajnost,
14:51
ambition, and the power of novel reasoning
338
879916
3124
ambicije ter moč inovativnega razmišljanja
14:55
in a circumscribed situation,
339
883040
2425
v posebnih situacijah,
14:57
such as figuring out the structure of DNA,
340
885465
2588
kot so razumevanje strukture DNK,
15:00
best left to scientists under the age of 30.
341
888053
3901
kar je bolje prepustiti
znanstvenikom pod 30 let.
znanstvenikom pod 30 let.
15:03
Conversely, valuable attributes
342
891954
1649
Z druge strani pa med pomembne lastnosti,
15:05
that increase with age include experience,
343
893603
3546
ki s starostjo rastejo, spadajo izkušnje,
15:09
understanding of people and human relationships,
344
897149
3013
razumevanje ljudi in osebnih odnosov,
15:12
ability to help other people
345
900162
2291
sposobnost pomagati drugim,
15:14
without your own ego getting in the way,
346
902453
2428
ne da bi vas oviral lasten ego,
15:16
and interdisciplinary thinking about large databases,
347
904881
3525
ter interdisciplinarno razmišljanje
o velikih bazah podatkov,
o velikih bazah podatkov,
15:20
such as economics and comparative history,
348
908406
2825
kot so ekonomija in primerjalna zgodovina,
15:23
best left to scholars over the age of 60.
349
911231
3214
kar najbolje obvladajo
akademiki nad 60 let.
akademiki nad 60 let.
15:26
Hence older people are
much better than younger people
much better than younger people
350
914445
2472
Zato so starejši veliko boljši od mlajših
15:28
at supervising, administering, advising,
351
916917
3971
pri nadziranju, upravljanju, svetovanju,
15:32
strategizing, teaching, synthesizing,
352
920888
3482
razvijanju strategij, poučevanju,
podajanju zaključkov
podajanju zaključkov
15:36
and devising long-term plans.
353
924370
2706
ter razvijanju dolgoročnih načrtov.
15:39
I've seen this value of older people
354
927076
2020
Ta pomen starejših sem videl
15:41
with so many of my friends in their 60s,
355
929096
2572
pri tako veliko prijateljih
v starosti 60 let,
v starosti 60 let,
15:43
70s, 80s and 90s,
356
931668
1990
ali pri 70- , 80- , 90-letnikih,
15:45
who are still active as investment managers,
357
933658
3285
ki so še vedno dejavni
kot investicijski menedžerji,
kot investicijski menedžerji,
15:48
farmers, lawyers and doctors.
358
936943
3013
kmetje, pravniki ali zdravniki.
15:51
In short, many traditional societies
359
939956
2130
Skratka, številne tradicionalne družbe
15:54
make better use of their elderly
360
942086
2113
bolje uporabljajo svoje stare ljudi
15:56
and give their elderly more satisfying lives
361
944199
3110
in jim nudijo bolj zadovoljno življenje,
15:59
than we do in modern, big societies.
362
947309
2850
kot to počnemo v modernih velikih družbah.
16:02
Paradoxically nowadays,
363
950159
1865
Dandanes, paradoksalno,
16:04
when we have more elderly people than ever before,
364
952024
2926
imamo več starejših kot kdajkoli prej,
16:06
living healthier lives and with better medical care
365
954950
2721
so bolj zdravi in imajo
boljšo medicinsko nego
boljšo medicinsko nego
16:09
than ever before,
366
957671
1486
kot kdajkoli prej,
16:11
old age is in some respects more miserable
367
959157
2707
a starost je v nekaterih pogledih
bolj žalostna
bolj žalostna
16:13
than ever before.
368
961864
1767
kot kdajkoli prej.
16:15
The lives of the elderly are widely recognized
369
963631
2422
Življenja starejših so označena kot
16:18
as constituting a disaster area
370
966053
2767
katastrofalno področje
16:20
of modern American society.
371
968820
2533
moderne ameriške družbe.
16:23
We can surely do better by learning
372
971353
1681
To bi lahko izboljšali z učenjem
16:25
from the lives of the elderly
373
973034
1875
od življenj starejših
16:26
in traditional societies.
374
974909
2012
v tradicionalnih družbah.
16:28
But what's true of the lives of the elderly
375
976921
1942
Kar drži za življenja starejših
16:30
in traditional societies
376
978863
1464
v tradicionalnih družbah,
16:32
is true of many other features
377
980327
1695
drži tudi za druge lastnosti
16:34
of traditional societies as well.
378
982022
2594
tradicionalnih družb.
16:36
Of course, I'm not advocating that we all give up
379
984616
2589
Seveda ne pravim, da se moramo zdaj
16:39
agriculture and metal tools
380
987205
2115
odreči kmetijstvu in kovinskim orodjem
16:41
and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.
381
989320
3084
ter se vrniti k lovsko-nabiralniškemu
načinu življenja.
načinu življenja.
16:44
There are many obvious respects
382
992404
1544
V veliko očitnih primerih
16:45
in which our lives today are far happier
383
993948
2479
so naša življenja danes mnogo srečnejša
16:48
than those in small, traditional societies.
384
996427
3062
od tistih v majhnih
tradicionalnih družbah.
tradicionalnih družbah.
16:51
To mention just a few examples,
385
999489
1706
Če omenim le nekaj primerov,
16:53
our lives are longer, materially much richer,
386
1001195
2970
živimo dlje, materialno bogatejši smo
16:56
and less plagued by violence
387
1004165
2283
in manj nas ogroža nasilje,
16:58
than are the lives of people in traditional societies.
388
1006448
3228
kot je to veljalo za ljudi v
tradicionalnih družbah.
tradicionalnih družbah.
17:01
But there are also things to be admired
389
1009676
2528
Nekatere stvari v tradicionalnih družbah
17:04
about people in traditional societies,
390
1012204
2142
pa velja tudi občudovati
17:06
and perhaps to be learned from them.
391
1014346
2319
in se morda od njih kaj naučiti.
17:08
Their lives are usually socially much richer
392
1016665
2591
Njihova življenja so ponavadi
z družbenega vidika
z družbenega vidika
17:11
than our lives,
393
1019256
1592
mnogo bogatejša od naših,
17:12
although materially poorer.
394
1020848
2292
čeprav so materialno revnejši.
17:15
Their children are more self-confident,
395
1023140
2952
Njihovi otroci so bolj samozavestni,
17:18
more independent, and more socially skilled
396
1026092
2594
bolj samostojni
in imajo več socialnih veščin
in imajo več socialnih veščin
17:20
than are our children.
397
1028686
2336
kot naši otroci.
17:23
They think more realistically
about dangers than we do.
about dangers than we do.
398
1031022
3743
O nevarnostih razmišljajo
bolj realistično kot mi.
bolj realistično kot mi.
17:26
They almost never die of diabetes, heart disease,
399
1034765
3529
Skoraj noben ne umre zaradi diabetesa,
srčnih bolezni,
srčnih bolezni,
17:30
stroke, and the other noncommunicable diseases
400
1038294
3234
kapi in drugih neprenosljivih bolezni,
17:33
that will be the causes of death of almost
401
1041528
2512
ki bodo vzroki za smrt
17:36
all of us in this room today.
402
1044040
3086
skoraj vseh nas v tej sobi.
17:39
Features of the modern lifestyle
predispose us to those diseases,
predispose us to those diseases,
403
1047126
4010
Moderni način življenja
nas vodi v te bolezni,
nas vodi v te bolezni,
17:43
and features of the traditional lifestyle
404
1051136
2234
medtem ko nas tradicionalni način
17:45
protect us against them.
405
1053370
2507
pred njimi ščiti.
17:47
Those are just some examples of what we can learn
406
1055877
2159
To je le nekaj primerov,
kako se lahko učimo
kako se lahko učimo
17:50
from traditional societies.
407
1058036
2288
od tradicionalnih družb.
17:52
I hope that you will find it as fascinating
408
1060324
1887
Upam, da boste o tradicionalnih družbah
17:54
to read about traditional societies
409
1062211
2409
brali s takim zanimanjem,
17:56
as I found it to live in those societies.
410
1064620
2703
kot sem jaz živel med njimi.
17:59
Thank you.
411
1067323
2180
Hvala.
18:01
(Applause)
412
1069503
4447
(Aplavz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jared Diamond - Civilization scholarJared Diamond investigates why cultures prosper or decline -- and what we can learn by taking a broad look across many kinds of societies.
Why you should listen
In his books Guns, Germs and Steel and Collapse (and the popular PBS and National Geographic documentaries they inspired), big-picture scholar Jared Diamond explores civilizations and why they all seem to fall. Now in his latest book, The World Until Yesterday, Diamond examines small, traditional, tribal societies -- and suggests that modern civilization is only our latest solution to survival.
Diamond’s background in evolutionary biology, geography and physiology informs his integrated vision of human history. He posits that success -- and failure -- depends on how well societies adapt to their changing environment.
Jared Diamond | Speaker | TED.com