TEDxDePaulUniversity
Kelly Richmond Pope: How whistle-blowers shape history
Keli Ričmond Poup (Kelly Richmond Pope): Kako uzbunjivači oblikuju istoriju
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Keli Ričmond Poup, istraživač prevara i režiser dokumentaraca, deli lekcije nekih uzbunjivača visokog profila iz prošlosti, objašnjavajući kako su oni izneli informacije koje su oblikovale društvo i zašto im treba naše poverenje i zaštita.
Kelly Richmond Pope - Fraud researcher, documentary filmmaker
Kelly Richmond Pope researches organizational misconduct, ethics and fraud. Full bio
Kelly Richmond Pope researches organizational misconduct, ethics and fraud. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
How many of us have ever seen something,
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Koliko nas je nekada videlo nešto
00:16
thought that we should report it,
but decided not to?
but decided not to?
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i pomislilo da bi to trebalo prijaviti,
ali smo odlučili suprotno?
ali smo odlučili suprotno?
00:21
And not that I need
to see a show of hands,
to see a show of hands,
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Nije da treba da vidim podignute ruke,
00:23
but I'm sure this has happened
to someone in this room before.
to someone in this room before.
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ali sam sigurna da se ovo desilo
ranije nekome u ovoj prostoriji.
ranije nekome u ovoj prostoriji.
00:26
In fact, when this question
was asked to a group of employees,
was asked to a group of employees,
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U stvari, kad je ovo pitanje
bilo postavljeno grupi zaposlenih,
bilo postavljeno grupi zaposlenih,
00:29
46 percent of them responded
by saying that they had seen something
by saying that they had seen something
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46% njih je odgovorilo da je videlo nešto
00:32
and decided not to report it.
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i da su odlučili da to ne prijave.
00:34
So if you raised your hand,
or quietly raised your hand,
or quietly raised your hand,
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Dakle, ako ste podigli ruku,
ili ste blago podigli ruku,
ili ste blago podigli ruku,
00:37
don't feel bad, you're not alone.
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ne osećajte se loše, niste jedini.
00:40
This message of if you see something
to say something
to say something
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Ta poruka "ako vidiš nešto, kaži",
00:43
is really all around us.
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je stvarno svuda oko nas.
00:45
Even when driving down the highway,
you see billboards like this,
you see billboards like this,
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Čak i kad se vozite auto-putem,
vidite bilborde kao što je ovaj,
vidite bilborde kao što je ovaj,
00:49
encouraging us to report crime
without revealing ourselves.
without revealing ourselves.
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koji nas podstiču da prijavimo zločin
ne otkrivajući ko smo.
ne otkrivajući ko smo.
00:52
But I still feel like a lot of us
are really uncomfortable
are really uncomfortable
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I dalje imam utisak
da je mnogima od nas neprijatno
da je mnogima od nas neprijatno
00:55
coming forward in the name of the truth.
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da istupimo u ime istine.
00:57
I'm an accounting professor,
and I do fraud research.
and I do fraud research.
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Ja sam profesorka računovodstva
i istražujem prevare.
i istražujem prevare.
01:00
And in my class, I encourage my students
to come forward with information
to come forward with information
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Na časovima ohrabrujem studente
da istupe sa informacijom,
da istupe sa informacijom,
01:04
if they see it.
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ako je imaju.
01:05
Or in other words, encouraging
my students to become whistle-blowers.
my students to become whistle-blowers.
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Ili drugim rečima, ohrabrujem studente
da postanu uzbunjivači.
da postanu uzbunjivači.
01:09
But if I'm being completely
honest with myself,
honest with myself,
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Da budem skroz iskrena prema sebi,
01:12
I am really conflicted with this message
that I'm sending to my students.
that I'm sending to my students.
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imam problem sa ovom porukom
koju šaljem studentima.
koju šaljem studentima.
01:15
And here's why.
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A evo i zašto.
01:18
Whistle-blowers are under attack.
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Uzbunjivači su pod napadom.
01:21
Headline after headline shows us this.
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Naslov za naslovom nam pokazuje ovo.
01:25
Many people choose
not to become whistle-blowers
not to become whistle-blowers
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Mnogi ljudi biraju
da ne postanu uzbunjivači
da ne postanu uzbunjivači
01:28
due to the fear of retaliation.
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zbog straha od osvete.
01:30
From demotions to death threats,
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Od nazadovanja do pretnji smrću,
01:34
to job loss --
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do gubitka posla -
01:36
perpetual job loss.
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gubitka posla zauvek.
01:38
Choosing to become a whistle-blower
is an uphill battle.
is an uphill battle.
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Izbor da postanete uzbunjivač
je veoma teška borba.
je veoma teška borba.
01:41
Their loyalty becomes into question.
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Njihova lojalnost se dovodi u pitanje.
01:44
Their motives, their trustworthiness.
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Njihovi motivi, njihova pouzdanost.
01:47
So how can I, as a professor
who really cares about her students
who really cares about her students
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Dakle, mogu li ja, kao profesor
koji stvarno brine o svojim studentima,
koji stvarno brine o svojim studentima,
01:51
encourage them to become whistle-blowers,
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da ih ohrabrim da postanu uzbunjivači,
01:53
when I know how the world
truly feels about them?
truly feels about them?
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kad znam šta svet zaista misli o njima?
Jednog dana sam se pripremala
za godišnje predavanje o uzbunjivačima
za godišnje predavanje o uzbunjivačima
01:56
So, one day I was getting ready
for my annual whistle-blower lecture
for my annual whistle-blower lecture
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sa svojim studentima.
01:59
with my students.
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Radila sam na članku za „Forbs“,
02:01
And I was working
on an article for "Forbes,"
on an article for "Forbes,"
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sa nazivom „Vels Fargo
i milenijalci uzbunjivači.
i milenijalci uzbunjivači.
02:03
entitled "Wells Fargo
and Millennial Whistle-blowing.
and Millennial Whistle-blowing.
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Šta da im kažemo?“
02:05
What Do We Tell Them?"
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Dok sam radila na ovom članku
i čitala o slučaju,
i čitala o slučaju,
02:07
And as I was working on this piece
and reading about the case,
and reading about the case,
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02:10
I became outraged.
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pobesnela sam.
02:11
And what made me angry
was when I came to the fact and realized
was when I came to the fact and realized
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Iznerviralo me je
kad sam došla do činjenice
kad sam došla do činjenice
02:15
that the employees
that tried to whistle-blow
that tried to whistle-blow
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da su zaposleni
koji su pokušali uzbunjivanje
koji su pokušali uzbunjivanje
02:18
were actually fired.
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zapravo bili otpušteni.
02:20
And it really made me think
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To me je nateralo da razmislim
02:21
about the message
that I was sharing with my students.
that I was sharing with my students.
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o poruci koju sam delila studentima.
Nateralo me je da se zapitam
02:24
And it made me think: What if my students
had been Wells Fargo employees?
had been Wells Fargo employees?
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šta bi bilo da su moji studenti
zaposleni u Vels Fargu?
zaposleni u Vels Fargu?
02:29
On the one hand, if they whistle-blew,
they would have gotten fired.
they would have gotten fired.
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Sa jedne strane, kad bi uzbunjivali,
bili bi otpušteni.
bili bi otpušteni.
02:33
But on the other hand,
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Ali sa druge strane,
02:34
if they didn't report
the frauds that they knew,
the frauds that they knew,
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ako ne bi prijavili prevare
za koje su znali,
za koje su znali,
02:37
the way current regulation is written,
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prema onome kako su napisani
trenutni propisi,
trenutni propisi,
02:39
employees are held responsible
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zaposleni su odgovorni
02:42
if they knew something
and didn't report it.
and didn't report it.
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ako su znali nešto, a nisu prijavili.
02:44
So criminal prosecution is a real option.
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Krivično gonjenje je stvarna opcija.
02:47
What's a person supposed to do
with those type of odds?
with those type of odds?
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Šta bi osoba trebalo da uradi
sa tim mogućnostima?
sa tim mogućnostima?
02:50
I of all people know
the valuable contributions
the valuable contributions
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Ja od svih ljudi znam za vredan doprinos
02:54
that whistle-blowers make.
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koji uzbunjivači imaju.
02:56
In fact, most frauds
are discovered by them.
are discovered by them.
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U stvari, većinu prevara
otkriju uzbunjivači.
otkriju uzbunjivači.
02:59
Forty two percent of frauds
are discovered by a whistle-blower
are discovered by a whistle-blower
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Četrdeset dva odsto prevara
su otkrili uzbunjivači,
su otkrili uzbunjivači,
03:02
in comparison to other methods,
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u poređenju sa drugim metodama
03:04
like measurement review
and external audit.
and external audit.
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kao što su pregled merenja
i spoljašnja revizija.
i spoljašnja revizija.
03:07
And when you think
about some of the more classic
about some of the more classic
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Kad pomislite o nekim više klasičnim
ili istorijskim slučajevima prevara,
03:09
or historical fraud cases,
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03:11
it always is around a whistle-blower.
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uvek tu postoji uzbunjivač.
03:14
Think Watergate --
discovered by a whistle-blower.
discovered by a whistle-blower.
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Setite se afere Votergejt
koju je uzbunjivač otkrio.
koju je uzbunjivač otkrio.
03:16
Think Enron -- discovered
by a whistle-blower.
by a whistle-blower.
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Setite se afere Enron
koju je takođe otkrio uzbunjivač.
koju je takođe otkrio uzbunjivač.
03:19
And who can forget about Bernard Madoff,
discovered by a whistle-blower?
discovered by a whistle-blower?
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I ko može da zaboravi na Bernarda Medofa,
kog je otkrio uzbunjivač?
kog je otkrio uzbunjivač?
03:24
It takes a tremendous amount of courage
to come forward in the name of the truth.
to come forward in the name of the truth.
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Potrebna je ogromna količina hrabrosti
da istupite u ime istine.
da istupite u ime istine.
03:28
But when we think
about the term whistle-blower,
about the term whistle-blower,
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Ali kad razmišljamo o terminu uzbunjivač,
03:31
we often think of some
very descriptive words:
very descriptive words:
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često pomišljamo
na neke veoma opisne reči:
na neke veoma opisne reči:
03:35
rat,
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prevrtljivac,
03:37
snake,
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mutljivac,
03:39
traitor,
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izdajnik,
03:40
tattletale, weasel.
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tužibaba, licemer.
03:43
And those are the nice words,
the ones I can say from the stage.
the ones I can say from the stage.
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A to su lepe reči,
one koje mogu da kažem sa pozornice.
one koje mogu da kažem sa pozornice.
03:46
And so when I'm not in class,
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Kada nisam na predavanjima,
idem po zemlji i intervjuišem
prestupnike kancelarijskih profesija,
prestupnike kancelarijskih profesija,
03:48
I go around the country
and I interview white-collar felons,
and I interview white-collar felons,
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03:51
whistle-blowers and victims of fraud.
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uzbunjivače i žrtve prevara.
03:53
Because really I'm trying to understand
what makes them tick
what makes them tick
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Jer u stvari pokušavam
da razumem šta ih motiviše,
da razumem šta ih motiviše,
03:56
and to bring those experiences
back into the classroom.
back into the classroom.
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i da donesem ta iskustva nazad u učionicu.
03:59
But it's my interviews with
whistle-blowers that really stick with me.
whistle-blowers that really stick with me.
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Međutim, intervjui sa uzbunjivačima
su ti koje zaista pamtim.
su ti koje zaista pamtim.
04:03
And they stick with me,
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Ostaju mi u glavi,
04:04
because they make me question
my own courage.
my own courage.
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jer me teraju da ispitujem
sopstvenu hrabrost.
sopstvenu hrabrost.
04:07
When given the opportunity,
would I actually speak up?
would I actually speak up?
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Kad bi mi se ukazala prilika,
da li bih ja zapravo progovorila?
da li bih ja zapravo progovorila?
04:11
And so, this is a couple stories
that I want to share with you.
that I want to share with you.
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Ovo je par priča
koje želim da podelim sa vama.
koje želim da podelim sa vama.
Ovo je Meri.
04:14
This is Mary.
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Meri Vilingem je uzbunjivačica
sa Univerziteta Severne Karoline
sa Univerziteta Severne Karoline
04:15
Mary Willingham is the whistle-blower
from the University of North Carolina
from the University of North Carolina
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04:18
at Chapel Hill, academic fraud case.
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u Čapel Hilu, akademski slučaj prevare.
04:22
And Mary was a learning specialist
at the university,
at the university,
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Meri je bila specijalista
za učenje na univerzitetu
za učenje na univerzitetu
04:25
and she worked with students,
primarily student athletes.
primarily student athletes.
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i radila je sa studentima,
naročito sa studentima sportistima.
naročito sa studentima sportistima.
04:28
And what she noticed,
when she was working with students,
when she was working with students,
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A ono što je primetila
dok je radila sa studentima,
dok je radila sa studentima,
04:31
is they were turning in term papers
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je da su oni predavali seminarske radove
04:34
that seemed well beyond
their reading levels.
their reading levels.
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koji su se činili znatno iznad
njihovog nivoa čitanja.
njihovog nivoa čitanja.
04:37
She started to ask a couple of questions
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Počela je da postavlja par pitanja
04:39
and she found out
that there was a database
that there was a database
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i otkrila je da postoji baza podataka,
04:41
where the student athletes
could retrieve papers and turn them in.
could retrieve papers and turn them in.
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gde su studenti sportisti mogli
da preuzmu radove i da ih predaju.
da preuzmu radove i da ih predaju.
04:44
And then she found out
that some of her colleagues
that some of her colleagues
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Onda je otkrila da su neke njene kolege
04:47
were funneling students into fake classes,
just to keep them eligible to play.
just to keep them eligible to play.
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upućivale studente na lažne časove,
samo da bi ostali kvalifikovani da igraju.
samo da bi ostali kvalifikovani da igraju.
04:53
Now, when Mary found this out,
she was outraged.
she was outraged.
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Kada je Meri ovo otkrila, bila je besna.
04:56
And so what she tried to do
was go to her direct supervisor.
was go to her direct supervisor.
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Pokušala je da ode kod svog supervizora.
04:59
But they didn't do anything.
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Ali nisu ništa učinili.
05:01
And then Mary tried to go to some
internal university administrators.
internal university administrators.
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Onda je Meri pokušala da ode do nekih
internih univerzitetskih administratora.
internih univerzitetskih administratora.
05:04
And they didn't do anything.
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Ni oni nisu uradili ništa.
05:06
So, what happens when nobody listens?
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Dakle, šta se desi kad niko ne sluša?
05:08
You blog.
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Pišete blog.
05:10
So Mary decided to develop a blog.
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Meri je odlučila da napravi blog.
05:12
Her blog went viral within 24 hours,
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Njen blog se proširio
na internetu u roku od 24 časa,
na internetu u roku od 24 časa,
05:14
and she was contacted by a reporter.
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i jedan novinar je stupio
u kontakt sa njom.
u kontakt sa njom.
05:17
Now, when she was contacted
by this reporter,
by this reporter,
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Kada je novinar kontaktirao sa njom,
05:19
her identity was known.
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njen identitet je bio poznat.
05:21
She was exposed.
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Bila je otkrivena.
05:22
And when she was exposed,
she received a demotion,
she received a demotion,
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Kada je bila otkrivena,
nazadovala je na poslu,
nazadovala je na poslu,
05:26
death threats, over collegiate sports.
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primila je pretnje smrću,
zbog fakultetskog sporta.
zbog fakultetskog sporta.
05:30
Mary didn't do anything wrong.
She didn't participate in the fraud.
She didn't participate in the fraud.
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Meri nije uradila ništa loše.
Nije učestvovala u prevari.
Nije učestvovala u prevari.
05:34
She really thought
that she was giving voice
that she was giving voice
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Stvarno je mislila da iznosi istinu
05:36
to students that were voiceless.
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u ime studenata koji to nisu mogli.
05:38
But her loyalty was questioned.
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Ali njena lojalnost je dovedena u pitanje.
05:41
Her trustworthiness and her motives.
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Njena pouzdanost i motivi.
05:45
Now, whistle-blowing
doesn't always have to end
doesn't always have to end
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Uzbunjivanje ne mora uvek da se završi
nazadovanjem na poslu ili pretnjama smrću.
nazadovanjem na poslu ili pretnjama smrću.
05:48
in demotions or death threats.
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05:50
Actually, in 2002, this was
the cover of "Time" magazine,
the cover of "Time" magazine,
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Zapravo, ovo je bila naslovna strana
magazina „Tajm“ 2002. godine,
magazina „Tajm“ 2002. godine,
05:54
where we were actually honoring
three brave whistle-blowers
three brave whistle-blowers
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gde smo odavali počast
trima hrabrima uzbunjivačima
trima hrabrima uzbunjivačima
05:57
for their decision to come forward
in the name of the truth.
in the name of the truth.
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zbog njihove odluke
da istupe u ime istine.
da istupe u ime istine.
06:00
And when you look at the research,
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Kada pogledate istraživanje,
06:02
22 percent of whistle-blowers
actually report retaliation.
actually report retaliation.
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22% uzbunjivača prijavi odmazdu.
06:06
So there is a huge population of people
that report and are not retaliated against
that report and are not retaliated against
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Dakle, postoji velika populacija
ljudi koji prijavljuju,
ljudi koji prijavljuju,
a koji nisu napadnuti zauzvrat,
06:11
and that gives me hope.
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i to mi daje nade.
06:14
So this is Kathe.
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Ovo je Keti.
06:15
Kathe Swanson is a retired city clerk
from the city of Dixon.
from the city of Dixon.
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Keti Svonson je penzionisana
gradska službenica iz Diksona.
gradska službenica iz Diksona.
06:20
And one day, Kathe was doing her job,
just like she always did,
just like she always did,
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Jednog dana Keti je radila
svoj posao, baš kao i uvek,
svoj posao, baš kao i uvek,
06:24
and she stumbled upon
a pretty interesting case.
a pretty interesting case.
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i naletela je na vrlo interesantan slučaj.
06:27
See, Kathe was at the end of the month,
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Vidite, Keti je bila pri kraju meseca,
06:29
and she was doing
her treasures report for the city,
her treasures report for the city,
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radila je na izveštaj o gradskom budžetu,
06:32
and typically, her boss, Rita Crundwell,
gave her a list of accounts and said,
gave her a list of accounts and said,
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i po običaju, njena šefica Rita Krandvel,
dala joj je listu računa i rekla:
dala joj je listu računa i rekla:
06:36
"Kathe, call the bank
and get these specific accounts."
and get these specific accounts."
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„Keti, zovi banku
i pogledaj ove konkretne račune.“
i pogledaj ove konkretne račune.“
06:39
And Kathe did her job.
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Keti je obavila svoj posao.
06:41
But this particular day,
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Ali baš ovog dana,
06:42
Rita was out of town, and Kathe was busy.
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Rita je bila van grada,
a Keti je bila zauzeta.
a Keti je bila zauzeta.
06:45
She picks up the phone, she calls the bank
and says, "Fax me all of the accounts."
and says, "Fax me all of the accounts."
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Podiže slušalicu, zove banku i kaže:
„Pošaljite mi faksom sve račune.“
„Pošaljite mi faksom sve račune.“
06:50
And when she gets the fax,
she sees that there is an account
she sees that there is an account
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Kad je dobila faks,
zapazila je da postoji račun
zapazila je da postoji račun
odakle je novac bio podizan
i na koji je uplaćivan,
i na koji je uplaćivan,
06:53
that has some withdrawals
and deposits in it
and deposits in it
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06:55
that she did not know about.
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a za koji ona nije znala.
06:57
It was an account controlled only by Rita.
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Bio je to račun koji je kontrolisala Rita.
07:00
So Kathe looked at the information,
she reported it to her direct supervisor,
she reported it to her direct supervisor,
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Tako da je Keti pogledala informaciju,
prijavila je to njenom supervizoru,
prijavila je to njenom supervizoru,
07:04
which was then-mayor Burke,
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koji je bio tadašnji gradonačelnik Burk,
07:06
and this led into a huge investigation,
a six-month investigation.
a six-month investigation.
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a ovo je dovelo do ogromne,
šestomesečne istrage.
šestomesečne istrage.
07:11
Come to find out, Kathe's boss,
Rita Crundwell, was embezzling money.
Rita Crundwell, was embezzling money.
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Došlo se do saznanja da je Ketina šefica,
Rita Krandvel, proneverila novac.
Rita Krandvel, proneverila novac.
07:16
Rita was embezzling 53 million dollars
over a 20-year period,
over a 20-year period,
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Rita je zatajila 53 miliona dolara
u periodu od 20 godina,
u periodu od 20 godina,
07:21
and Kathe just happened
to stumble upon it.
to stumble upon it.
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a zadesilo se da je Keti naletela na to.
07:25
Kathe is a hero.
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Keti je heroina.
07:28
And actually, I had the opportunity
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Zapravo, imala sam priliku
07:29
of interviewing Kathe for my documentary,
"All the Queen's Horses."
"All the Queen's Horses."
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da intervjuišem Keti za svoj dokumentarac,
„Svi kraljičini konji“.
„Svi kraljičini konji“.
07:33
And Kathe wasn't seeking fame.
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Keti nije tražila slavu.
07:35
In fact, she really didn't want
to talk to me for a really long time,
to talk to me for a really long time,
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U stvari, ona baš dugo vremena
stvarno nije želela da priča sa mnom,
stvarno nije želela da priča sa mnom,
07:39
but through strategic stalking,
she ended up doing the interview.
she ended up doing the interview.
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ali putem strateškog uhođenja,
na kraju je pristala na intervju.
na kraju je pristala na intervju.
07:42
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
07:43
But she was seeking fairness, not fame.
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Ali tražila je pravdu, ne slavu.
07:45
And if it wasn't for Kathe,
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A da nije bilo Keti,
07:47
who's to say this fraud
would have ever been discovered?
would have ever been discovered?
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ko zna da li bi ova prevara
ikad bila otkrivena.
ikad bila otkrivena.
07:51
So, remember that "Forbes" article
I was talking about,
I was talking about,
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Sećate se Forbsovog članka
o kom sam pričala,
o kom sam pričala,
07:53
that I was working on before my lecture?
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na kom sam radila pre svog predavanja?
07:55
Well, I posted it and something
really fantastic happened.
really fantastic happened.
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Objavila sam ga i nešto
stvarno fantastično se desilo.
stvarno fantastično se desilo.
07:59
I started receiving emails
from whistle-blowers all over the world.
from whistle-blowers all over the world.
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Počela sam da primam imejlove
od uzbunjivača iz celog sveta.
od uzbunjivača iz celog sveta.
08:04
And as I was receiving these emails
and responding back to them,
and responding back to them,
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Kako sam primala te imejlove
i odgovarala na njih,
i odgovarala na njih,
08:07
there was a common theme
in the message that I received,
in the message that I received,
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postojala je zajednička tema
u poruci koju sam primila,
u poruci koju sam primila,
08:10
and this is what it was:
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a to je bilo ovo -
08:11
they all said this, "I blew the whistle,
people really hate me now.
people really hate me now.
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svi su rekli: „Istupio sam sa dokazima,
a sada me ljudi stvarno mrze.
a sada me ljudi stvarno mrze.
08:15
I got fired, but guess what?
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Otpušten sam, ali pogodite šta?
08:18
I would do it all over again if I could."
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Uradio bih sve to ponovo da mogu.“
08:21
And so as I kept reading this message,
all these messages,
all these messages,
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Kako sam nastavila da čitam sve te poruke,
08:24
I wanted to think,
what could I share with my students?
what could I share with my students?
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htela sam da smislim
šta bih mogla podeliti sa studentima.
šta bih mogla podeliti sa studentima.
08:27
And so, I pulled it all together
and this is what I learned.
and this is what I learned.
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Sakupila sam sve
i ovo je ono što sam naučila.
i ovo je ono što sam naučila.
08:31
It's important for us to cultivate hope.
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Važno je za nas da gajimo nadu.
08:34
Whistle-blowers are hopeful.
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Uzbunjivači su puni nade.
08:36
Despite popular belief,
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Uprkos popularnom verovanju,
08:37
they're not all disgruntled employees
that have a beef with the company.
that have a beef with the company.
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oni nisu svi nezadovoljni zaposleni
koji imaju problem sa kompanijom.
koji imaju problem sa kompanijom.
08:42
Their hopefulness really is
what drives them to come forward.
what drives them to come forward.
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Njihova nada je razlog
koji ih vodi ka tome da istupe.
koji ih vodi ka tome da istupe.
08:46
We also have to cultivate commitment.
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Takođe moramo da gajimo posvećenost.
08:48
Whistle-blowers are committed.
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Uzbunjivači su posvećeni.
08:50
And it's that passion
to their organization
to their organization
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A strast prema njihovoj organizaciji
08:53
that makes them want to come forward.
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ih tera da žele da istupe.
08:55
Whistle-blowers are humble.
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Uzbunjivači su skromni.
08:57
Again, they're not seeking fame,
but they are seeking fairness.
but they are seeking fairness.
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Još jednom, oni ne traže slavu,
ali traže pravdu.
ali traže pravdu.
09:01
And we need to continue
to cultivate bravery.
to cultivate bravery.
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Moramo da nastavimo da gajimo hrabrost.
09:04
Whistle-blowers are brave.
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Uzbunjivači su hrabri.
09:05
Often, they underestimated
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Oni često potcenjuju
09:09
the impact whistle-blowing
had on their family,
had on their family,
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uticaj koji je uzbunjivanje imalo
na njihovu porodicu,
na njihovu porodicu,
09:12
but what they continue to comment on
is how hard it is to withhold the truth.
is how hard it is to withhold the truth.
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ali nastavljaju da komentarišu
koliko je teško sakriti istinu.
koliko je teško sakriti istinu.
09:17
With that, I want to leave you
with one additional name:
with one additional name:
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Sa tim u vezi, želim da vam ostavim
još jedno dodatno ime -
još jedno dodatno ime -
09:20
Peter Buxtun.
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Piter Bakston.
09:23
Peter Buxtun was a 27-year-old
employee for the US Public Health Service.
employee for the US Public Health Service.
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Piter Bakston je imao 27 godina i radio je
u Američkoj službi za javno zdravlje.
u Američkoj službi za javno zdravlje.
09:29
And he was hired to interview people
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Angažovali su ga da intervjuiše ljude
09:33
that had sexually transmitted diseases.
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koji su imali seksualno prenosive bolesti.
09:35
And through the course of his work,
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Kroz svoj posao,
09:37
he noticed a clinical study
that was going on within the organization.
that was going on within the organization.
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zapazio je kliničku studiju
koja se dešavala unutar organizacije.
koja se dešavala unutar organizacije.
09:41
And it was a study that was looking
at the progression of untreated syphilis.
at the progression of untreated syphilis.
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A to je bila studija koja je posmatrala
tok razvoja nelečenog sifilisa.
tok razvoja nelečenog sifilisa.
Bilo je 600 afroameričkih muškaraca
09:45
And so, there were
600 African American males
600 African American males
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koji su bili uključeni.
09:48
that were in this study.
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09:49
They were enticed into the study
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Bili su navedeni da učestvuju
09:51
through being given
free medical exams, burial insurance.
free medical exams, burial insurance.
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tako što su im dali besplatne preglede,
pogrebna osiguranja.
pogrebna osiguranja.
09:55
And so, what happened
through the course of this study,
through the course of this study,
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Ono što se desilo tokom ove studije
09:59
is penicillin was discovered
to help treat syphilis.
to help treat syphilis.
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jeste da je otkriven penicilin
da pomogne u lečenju sifilisa.
da pomogne u lečenju sifilisa.
10:04
And what Peter noticed was,
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A Piter je zapazio
10:06
the participants in this study
were not given the penicillin
were not given the penicillin
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da učesnicima u ovoj studiji
nije dat penicilin
nije dat penicilin
10:10
to treat their syphilis.
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da bi ih izlečili od sifilisa.
10:11
And the participants didn't know.
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A učesnici to nisu znali.
10:13
So similar to Mary, Peter tried to report
and talk to his internal supervisors,
and talk to his internal supervisors,
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Kao i Meri, Piter je pokušao da to prijavi
i da priča sa internim supervizorom,
i da priča sa internim supervizorom,
10:18
but no one listened.
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ali niko nije slušao.
10:20
And so Peter thought
this was completely unfair
this was completely unfair
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Piter je mislio
da je ovo potpuno nepravedno
da je ovo potpuno nepravedno
10:22
and he tried to report again,
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i pokušao je da ponovo prijavi,
10:24
and finally talked to a reporter --
very similar to Mary.
very similar to Mary.
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pa je na kraju pričao sa novinarom -
veoma slično kao Meri.
veoma slično kao Meri.
10:28
And in 1972, this was the front page
of the "New York Times":
of the "New York Times":
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Godine 1972, ovo je bila
naslovna strana „Njujork Tajmsa“ -
naslovna strana „Njujork Tajmsa“ -
10:32
"Syphilis Victims in US Study
Went Untreated for 40 Years."
Went Untreated for 40 Years."
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„Žrtve sifilisa u američkoj studiji
bile su nelečene 40 godina“.
bile su nelečene 40 godina“.
10:37
This is known to us today
as the Tuskegee syphilis experiment.
as the Tuskegee syphilis experiment.
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Ovo nam je danas poznato
kao studija sifilisa u Taskigiju.
kao studija sifilisa u Taskigiju.
10:42
And Peter was the whistle-blower.
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A Piter je bio uzbunjivač.
10:44
What happened to the 600 men,
you may wonder, the 600 original men?
you may wonder, the 600 original men?
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Šta se desilo sa tih 600 muškaraca,
pitate se, prvobitnih 600 muškaraca?
pitate se, prvobitnih 600 muškaraca?
10:48
Twenty eight men died from syphilis.
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Dvadeset osmoro njih je umrlo od sifilisa.
10:51
One hundred died
from syphilis complications,
from syphilis complications,
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Sto je umrlo od komplikacija
usled sifilisa,
usled sifilisa,
10:54
forty wives were infected
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40 supruga je bilo inficirano,
10:56
and 10 children were born
with congenital syphilis.
with congenital syphilis.
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i desetoro dece je bilo rođeno
sa urođenim sifilisom.
sa urođenim sifilisom.
10:59
Who's to say what these numbers would be
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Ko zna koje bi to cifre bile
11:01
if it wasn't for the brave,
courageous act of Peter?
courageous act of Peter?
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da nije bilo Piterovog hrabrog,
odvažnog postupka?
odvažnog postupka?
11:05
We're all connected to Peter, actually.
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Svi smo zapravo povezani sa Piterom.
11:08
If you know anybody
that's in a clinical trial,
that's in a clinical trial,
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Ako znate bilo koga
ko je u kliničkoj studiji,
ko je u kliničkoj studiji,
11:10
the reason why we have
informed consent today
informed consent today
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razlog što danas imamo
formular saglasnosti
formular saglasnosti
11:14
is because of Peter's courageous act.
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je zbog Piterovog odvažnog dela.
Dopustite da vam postavim pitanje.
11:17
So let me ask you a question.
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11:18
That original question,
a variation of the original question.
a variation of the original question.
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To originalno pitanje,
varijaciju originalnog pitanja.
varijaciju originalnog pitanja.
11:21
How many of us have ever used the term
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Koliko nas je ikada koristilo termine
11:24
snitch, rat
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cinkaroš, prevrtljivac,
11:27
tattletale,
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tužibaba,
11:29
snake,
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mutljivac,
11:31
weasel,
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licemer,
11:32
leak?
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dojavljivač?
11:34
Anybody?
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Bilo ko?
11:39
Before you get the urge to do that again,
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Pre nego što budete imali potrebu
da uradite to ponovo,
da uradite to ponovo,
11:42
I want you to think a little bit.
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želim da razmislite malo.
11:44
It might be the Mary,
the Peter, the Kathes of the world.
the Peter, the Kathes of the world.
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To može biti neka Meri,
Piter, Keti u svetu.
Piter, Keti u svetu.
11:49
You might be the person
that could shape history,
that could shape history,
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Možete biti osoba
koja bi mogla oblikovati istoriju,
koja bi mogla oblikovati istoriju,
11:52
or they could be the person
that shapes yours.
that shapes yours.
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ili oni mogu biti osoba
koja oblikuje vašu.
koja oblikuje vašu.
11:55
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
11:56
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Kelly Richmond Pope - Fraud researcher, documentary filmmakerKelly Richmond Pope researches organizational misconduct, ethics and fraud.
Why you should listen
Kelly Richmond Pope is an Associate Professor in the School of Accountancy and MIS at DePaul University where her research focuses on how organizations design cultures and compliance systems to confront the challenges of organizational misconduct, ethics and fraud. She also teaches in executive education programs at the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University and the Quilan School of Business at Loyola University.
Pope's research on organizational misconduct culminated into directing and producing the award-winning documentary, All the Queen's Horses in 2017. Renowned Chicago Sun-Times film critic Richard Roeper cites "kudos to director Kelly Richmond Pope for applying just the right mix of 'What the heck?' whimsy and respectful, serious reporting to this incredible tale." All the Queen's Horses explores the largest municipal fraud in United States history and premiered as the #1 documentary on iTunes, Amazon Prime Video, Google Play and Direct TV during its debut week on the video on demand platforms in April 2018.
At the organizational level, Pope examines factors that encourage employees to whistle-blow as well as the ethical decision-making process. This research has been published in leading accounting and business ethics journals and resulted in being selected to develop a TED-Ed lesson entitled "How people rationalize fraud."
Pope is a popular keynote speaker and frequently advises firms about their compliance programs and training. She is regularly invited to speak to regulators, including the Department of Justice, Securities and Exchange Commission, PCAOB, Internal Revenue Service-Criminal Investigations and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Prior to joining the faculty at DePaul University, Pope worked in the forensic accounting practice at KPMG. She received her doctorate in accounting from Virginia Tech and is a licensed certified public accountant.
Kelly Richmond Pope | Speaker | TED.com