ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Deborah Lipstadt - Historian
Deborah Lipstadt's research focuses on the development of Holocaust denial and how to fight for the truth in an era marked by "alternative facts."

Why you should listen

Dr. Deborah E. Lipstadt, Dorot professor of Holocaust Studies at Emory University in Atlanta, was sued for libel in 1996 by David Irving for having called him a Holocaust denier. After a ten-week trial in London in 2000, in an overwhelming victory for Lipstadt, the judge found Irving to be a "neo-Nazi polemicist" who "perverts" history and engages in "racist" and "anti-Semitic" discourse. The Daily Telegraph (London) described the trial as having "done for the new century what the Nuremberg tribunals or the Eichmann trial did for earlier generations." The Times (London) described it as "history has had its day in court and scored a crushing victory." According to the New York Times, the trial "put an end to the pretense that Mr. Irving is anything but a self-promoting apologist for Hitler."

The movie Denial, starring Rachel Weisz and Tom Wilkenson with a screenplay by David Hare, tells the story of this legal battle.  It is based on Lipstadt's book, History on Trial: My Day in Court with a Holocaust Denier (Harper Collins, 2006), and recently reissued as Denial (Harper Collins, 2016). The film was nominated for a BAFTA as one of the best British films of the year.

Lipstadt has written most recently Holocaust: An American Understanding (Rutgers, 2016), which explores how America has understood and interpreted the Holocaust since 1945.

Her previous book, The Eichmann Trial, (Schocken/Nextbook, 2011) published in commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the Eichmann trial, was called by Publisher's Weekly, "a penetrating and authoritative dissection of a landmark case and its after effects." The New York Times Book Review described Lipstadt as having "done a great service by … recovering the event as a gripping legal drama, as well as a hinge moment in Israel's history and in the world's delayed awakening to the magnitude of the Holocaust."

She has also published Beyond Belief: The American Press And The Coming Of The Holocaust, 1933-1945 (Free Press, 1986), which surveys what the American press wrote about the persecution of the Jews in the years 1933-1945.  She is currently writing a book, The Antisemitic Delusion: Letters to a Concerned Student which will be published in 2018.

At Emory, Lipstadt directs the website known as HDOT, Holocaust Denial on Trial, which contains a complete archive of the proceedings of Irving v. Penguin UK and Deborah Lipstadt. It also provides answers to frequent claims made by deniers. Lipstadt has won the Emery Williams Teaching Award, and she was selected for the award by alumni as the teacher who had most influenced them.

Lipstadt was a historical consultant to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, helping design the section of the Museum dedicated to the American Response to the Holocaust. She has held a Presidential appointment to the United States Holocaust Memorial Council (from Presidents Clinton and Obama) and was asked by President George W. Bush to represent the White House at the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz.

Lipstadt has a BA from the City College of New York and an MA and PhD from Brandeis University.

More profile about the speaker
Deborah Lipstadt | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxSkoll

Deborah Lipstadt: Behind the lies of Holocaust denial

Deborah Lipstadt: 否认大屠杀的谎言背后

Filmed:
1,378,476 views

“存在事实,存在观点,存在谎言”,历史学界Deborah Lipstadt说道。她和我们分享了她研究大屠杀否认者的非凡故事——以及他们对历史的刻意篡改。Lipstadt鼓励我们对那些攻击事实的人变得主动。她说,“事实不是相对的。”
- Historian
Deborah Lipstadt's research focuses on the development of Holocaust denial and how to fight for the truth in an era marked by "alternative facts." Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:13
I come to you today今天 to speak说话 of liars骗子,
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我今天将和你们谈谈谎言,
00:17
lawsuits诉讼
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诉讼,
00:18
and laughter笑声.
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和欢笑。
00:20
The first time I heard听说
about Holocaust大屠杀 denial否认,
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当我第一次听到对大屠杀的否认时,
00:24
I laughed笑了.
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我笑了。
00:25
Holocaust大屠杀 denial否认?
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否认大屠杀?
00:28
The Holocaust大屠杀 which哪一个 has
the dubious可疑 distinction分别
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世界上记录最全面、
00:31
of being存在 the best-documented最好的证明
genocide种族灭绝 in the world世界?
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最著名的种族大屠杀?
00:37
Who could believe it didn't happen发生?
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谁会相信它没有发生?
00:40
Think about it.
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想想看。
00:42
For deniers否认 to be right,
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如果否认者是正确的,
00:44
who would have to be wrong错误?
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谁会变成错误的呢?
00:47
Well, first of all, the victims受害者 --
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首先,受害者们——
00:49
the survivors幸存者 who have told us
their harrowing悲惨 stories故事.
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那些告诉我们令人心碎的故事的幸存者。
00:55
Who else其他 would have to be wrong错误?
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谁还会是错误的呢?
00:58
The bystanders旁观者.
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旁观者。
01:00
The people who lived生活 in the myriads无数
of towns城市 and villages村庄 and cities城市
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那些居住在东部战线上
无数村庄和城市中的
01:04
on the Eastern front面前,
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人们,
01:06
who watched看着 their neighbors邻居
be rounded up --
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他们看着他们的邻居被围剿——
01:08
men男人, women妇女, children孩子, young年轻, old --
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男人,女人,孩子,年轻人,老人——
01:11
and be marched游行
to the outskirts郊区 of the town
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被指挥前进到村庄的边缘,
01:14
to be shot射击 and left dead in ditches沟渠.
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然后被射杀,死在沟渠里。
01:17
Or the Poles波兰人,
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或是波兰人,
01:19
who lived生活 in towns城市 and villages村庄
around the death死亡 camps营地,
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他们生活在集中营旁边的村庄,
01:24
who watched看着 day after day
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他们日复一日的看着
01:26
as the trains火车 went in filled填充 with people
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火车载满着人开进来,
01:29
and came来了 out empty.
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再空着开出去。
01:31
But above以上 all, who would have to be wrong错误?
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但是最重要的是,究竟是谁错了?
01:36
The perpetrators肇事者.
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是罪犯。
01:38
The people who say, "We did it.
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是那些说着,“我们做了。
01:41
I did it."
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我做了”的人。
01:43
Now, maybe they add a caveat警告.
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现在,他们或许会加个说明。
01:45
They say, "I didn't have a choice选择;
I was forced被迫 to do it."
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他们说,“我没有选择;
我是被逼迫的。”
01:50
But nonetheless尽管如此,, they say, "I did it."
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但是他们仍会说,“我做了。”
01:53
Think about it.
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想想看。
01:55
In not one war战争 crimes犯罪 trial审讯
since以来 the end结束 of World世界 War战争 IIII
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在二战结束后的战争罪犯审判中,
02:01
has a perpetrator肇事者 of any nationality国籍
ever said, "It didn't happen发生."
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没有一场出现过罪犯说,
“它没有发生”的情况,无论罪犯国籍。
02:09
Again, they may可能 have said, "I was forced被迫,"
but never that it didn't happen发生.
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即使他们可能会说,“我是被逼的”,
但是否认从未出现过。
02:13
Having thought that through通过,
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想通了这一点,
02:15
I decided决定 denial否认 was not
going to be on my agenda议程;
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我认为战争否认不应该
成为我的研究话题;
02:19
I had bigger things to worry担心 about,
to write about, to research研究,
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我有更重要的事情要去担心,
要去写作,要去研究,
02:22
and I moved移动 on.
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所以我翻篇了。
02:24
Fast-forward快进 a little over a decade,
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时间快进一个多世纪,
02:27
and two senior前辈 scholars学者 --
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两个资深的学者——
02:29
two of the most prominent突出 historians历史学家
of the Holocaust大屠杀 --
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研究大屠杀最具声望的两名历史学家——
02:32
approached接近 me and said,
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找到我,说道,
02:34
"Deborah黛博拉, let's have coffee咖啡.
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“Deborah,我们喝个咖啡吧。
02:35
We have a research研究 idea理念
that we think is perfect完善 for you."
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我们有个研究想法,
十分适合你。”
02:39
Intrigued感兴趣 and flattered受宠若惊
that they came来了 to me with an idea理念
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他们带着想法来找我,
觉得我值得研究它,
02:43
and thought me worthy值得 of it,
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我感到既兴奋又受宠若惊,
02:44
I asked, "What is it?"
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于是问道,“是什么?”
02:47
And they said, "Holocaust大屠杀 denial否认."
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他们说,“关于大屠杀的否认。”
02:51
And for the second第二 time, I laughed笑了.
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第二次,我又笑了。
02:54
Holocaust大屠杀 denial否认?
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否认大屠杀?
02:56
The Flat平面 Earth地球 folks乡亲?
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认为地球是平的人?
02:58
The Elvis-is-alive猫王-活着 people?
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认为猫王还活着的人?
03:00
I should study研究 them?
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我应该研究他们?
03:03
And these two guys said,
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然后这两个学者说,
03:04
"Yeah, we're intrigued好奇.
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“是的,我们感兴趣。
03:07
What are they about?
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他们是什么样的人?
03:08
What's their objective目的?
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他们的目的是什么?
03:10
How do they manage管理 to get people
to believe what they say?"
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他们怎么让人们相信他们所说的话?”
03:14
So thinking思维, if they thought
it was worthwhile合算,
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想了想,如果他们觉得这有价值,
03:18
I would take a momentary瞬间 diversion导流 --
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我应该做个短暂的研究方向偏移——
03:21
maybe a year, maybe two,
three, maybe even four --
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也许一年,也许两年,三年
甚至是四年——
03:24
in academic学术的 terms条款, that's momentary瞬间.
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对于学术研究来说,这很短暂。
03:26
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
03:28
We work very slowly慢慢地.
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我们进度很慢。
03:30
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
03:32
And I would look at them.
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那我就研究着看看。
03:33
So I did.
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我也这么做了。
03:35
I did my research研究, and I came来了 up
with a number of things,
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我做了研究,
有了许多发现,
03:37
two of which哪一个 I'd like to share分享
with you today今天.
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今天我想和你们分享两点。
03:40
One:
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第一:
03:41
deniers否认 are wolves in sheep's clothing服装.
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否认者是披着羊皮的狼。
03:47
They are the same相同: Nazis纳粹, neo-Nazis新纳粹 --
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他们是一样的:纳粹,新纳粹——
03:50
you can decide决定 whether是否 you want
to put a "neo" there or not.
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你可以决定是否要加“新”字在前面。
03:54
But when I looked看着 at them,
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但是当我研究他们时,
03:57
I didn't see any SS-likeSS 类 uniforms制服,
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我没有看到像SS部队一样的制服,
04:01
swastika-like卍状 symbols符号 on the wall,
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在墙上卍字一样的标识,
04:05
Sieg胜利 Heil万岁 salutes礼炮 --
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“胜利万岁”(法西斯分子的招呼用语)的
招呼方式——
04:07
none没有 of that.
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一个都没有。
04:08
What I found发现 instead代替
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我发现的却是,
04:11
were people parading游行
as respectable可敬 academics学者.
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以备受尊敬的学术专家身份
进行游说的人。
04:16
What did they have?
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他们拥有什么?
04:18
They had an institute研究所.
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他们有研究机构。
04:19
An "Institute研究所 for Historical历史的 Review评论."
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“历史评论研究所”。
04:24
They had a journal日志 -- a slick华而不实的 journal日志 --
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他们有一个期刊——
一个名不副实的期刊——
04:26
a "Journal日志 of Historical历史的 Review评论."
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“历史评论”。
04:30
One filled填充 with papers文件 --
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上面充满了论文——
04:33
footnote-laden脚注载货 papers文件.
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有很多脚注的论文。
04:35
And they had a new name名称.
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而且他们有个新的名字。
04:38
Not neo-Nazis新纳粹,
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不是新纳粹,
04:40
not anti-Semites抗犹太 --
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不是反犹太主义者——
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revisionists修正主义.
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而是修正主义者。
04:44
They said, "We are revisionists修正主义.
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他们说,“我们是修正主义者。
04:47
We are out to do one thing:
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我们只做一件事情:
04:49
to revise修改 mistakes错误 in history历史."
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修正历史中的错误。”
04:54
But all you had to do was go
one inch英寸 below下面 the surface表面,
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但是你只需要在表层下更进一步,
04:59
and what did you find there?
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你会发现什么?
05:01
The same相同 adulation阿谀 of Hitler希特勒,
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一样的对希特勒的崇拜,
05:04
praise赞美 of the Third第三 Reich帝国,
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对第三帝国的赞美,
05:06
anti-Semitism反犹太主义, racism种族主义, prejudice偏见.
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反犹太人,种族歧视和偏见。
05:09
This is what intrigued好奇 me.
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这让我很着迷。
05:12
It was anti-Semitism反犹太主义, racism种族主义, prejudice偏见,
parading游行 as rational合理的 discourse演讲.
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反犹太主义,种族主义和偏见
正以理性讨论的外衣进行游说。
05:20
The other thing I found发现 --
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另一个我发现的事情——
05:22
many许多 of us have been taught to think
there are facts事实 and there are opinions意见 --
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我们中的许多人被教育到,
有许多的事实和许多的观点——
05:26
after studying研究 deniers否认,
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但在研究了否认者之后,
05:27
I think differently不同.
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我的想法变了。
05:29
There are facts事实,
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有事实,
05:31
there are opinions意见,
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有观点,
05:32
and there are lies.
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也有谎言。
05:35
And what deniers否认 want to do
is take their lies,
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否认者想要做的,
是把他们的谎言,
05:40
dress连衣裙 them up as opinions意见 --
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打扮成观点——
05:42
maybe edgy前卫 opinions意见,
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也许是新颖的观点,
05:44
maybe sort分类 of out-of-the-box盒子外面 opinions意见 --
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也许是跳出思维定式的观点——
05:46
but then if they're opinions意见,
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但如果它们是观点,
05:48
they should be part部分 of the conversation会话.
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那么在讨论中它们应该有一席之地。
05:50
And then they encroach侵犯 on the facts事实.
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然后它们便蚕食了事实。
05:55
I published发表 my work --
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我发表了我的研究——
05:56
the book was published发表,
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出版了一本书,
05:58
"Denying否认 the Holocaust大屠杀: The Growing生长
Assault攻击 on Truth真相 and Memory记忆,"
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“否认大屠杀:对事实和记忆越来越多的攻击”,
06:01
it came来了 out in many许多 different不同 countries国家,
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它在许多不同的国家出版,
06:03
including包含 here in Penguin企鹅 UK联合王国,
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包括这里,英国的企鹅出版社,
06:05
and I was doneDONE with those folks乡亲
and ready准备 to move移动 on.
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我已经不想再研究这些人了,
打算前进翻篇。
06:10
Then came来了 the letter from Penguin企鹅 UK联合王国.
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然后英国的企鹅出版社发来了一封信。
06:14
And for the third第三 time, I laughed笑了 ...
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第三次,我笑了...
06:19
mistakenly.
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错误的笑了。
06:20
I opened打开 the letter,
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我打开信,
06:22
and it informed通知 me that David大卫 Irving欧文
was bringing使 a libel诽谤 suit适合 against反对 me
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信中说,David Irving在英国对我发起了
06:28
in the United联合的 Kingdom王国
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诽谤诉讼,
06:30
for calling调用 him a Holocaust大屠杀 denier.
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因为我称他为大屠杀否认者。
06:33
David大卫 Irving欧文 suing起诉 me?
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David Irving起诉我?
06:35
Who was David大卫 Irving欧文?
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谁是David Irving?
06:37
David大卫 Irving欧文 was a writer作家
of historical历史的 works作品,
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David Irving是历史学作家,
06:39
most of them about World世界 War战争 IIII,
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作品大多关于二战,
06:41
and virtually实质上 all of those works作品
took the position位置
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而且几乎所有这些作品都认为
06:45
that the Nazis纳粹 were really not so bad,
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纳粹实际上没有那么坏,
06:48
and the allies盟国 were really not so good.
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同盟国实际上没有那么好。
06:51
And the Jews犹太人, whatever随你 happened发生 to them,
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而犹太人,无论他们遭受了什么,
06:53
they sort分类 of deserved应得 it.
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都是应得的。
06:56
He knew知道 the documents文件,
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他了解文件,
06:57
he knew知道 the facts事实,
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他了解事实,
06:59
but he somehow不知何故 twisted扭曲 them
to get this opinion意见.
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但是他扭曲了文件和事实,
得到了这一观点。
07:03
He hadn't有没有 always been a Holocaust大屠杀 denier,
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他不一直是大屠杀否认者,
07:05
but in the late晚了 '80s,
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但是在80年代后期,
07:07
he embraced拥抱 it with great vigor活力.
146
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他接受了这个论调。
07:11
The reason原因 I laughed笑了 also
was this was a man
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我笑的原因还在于,
07:15
who not only was a Holocaust大屠杀 denier,
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这个人不只是大屠杀否认者,
07:17
but seemed似乎 quite相当 proud骄傲 of it.
149
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而且似乎还对此感到骄傲。
07:19
Here was a man -- and I quote引用 --
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他是这么个人——
我引用他的话——
07:20
who said, "I'm going to sink水槽
the battleship主力舰 Auschwitz奥斯威辛."
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“我要捍卫奥斯维辛集中营的战斗。”
07:25
Here was a man
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他是这么个人,
07:26
who pointed to the number tattooed纹身
on a survivor's幸存者 arm and said,
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指着幸存者手臂上纹的数字说道,
07:31
"How much money have you made制作
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“把这个数字纹到你的手臂上,
07:33
from having that number
tattooed纹身 on your arm?"
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你拿了多少钱?”
07:37
Here was a man who said,
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他是这么个人,说道,
07:39
"More people died死亡 in Senator参议员 Kennedy's肯尼迪 car汽车
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“在奎迪克岛上参议院Kennedy的车里
07:42
at Chappaquiddick查帕奎迪克
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死掉的人,
07:43
than died死亡 in gas加油站 chambers at Auschwitz奥斯威辛."
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比死在奥斯维辛毒气室里的人还要多。”
07:47
That's an American美国 reference参考,
but you can look it up.
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这是本美国出版的书,
但是你们可以找找看。
07:51
This was not a man who seemed似乎
at all ashamed羞愧 or reticent沉默的
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这个人对于自己大屠杀否认者的身份,
07:54
about being存在 a Holocaust大屠杀 denier.
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完全不感到羞耻或谨慎。
07:57
Now, lots of my academic学术的
colleagues同事 counseled劝告 me --
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许多学术界的同事建议我——
08:00
"Eh, Deborah黛博拉, just ignore忽视 it."
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“Deborah,忽略掉吧。”
08:02
When I explained解释 you can't just
ignore忽视 a libel诽谤 suit适合,
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当我解释我不能忽略一个诽谤起诉时,
08:06
they said, "Who's谁是 going to
believe him anyway无论如何?"
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他们说道,“但谁会相信他呢?”
08:09
But here was the problem问题:
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但这是问题所在:
08:11
British英国的 law put the onus责任,
put the burden负担 of proof证明 on me
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英国法律将提供证据的
责任放在我的肩上,
08:17
to prove证明 the truth真相 of what I said,
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要我证明我所说的是正确的,
08:19
in contrast对比 to as it would have
been in the United联合的 States状态
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而不是和美国
08:22
and in many许多 other countries国家:
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以及其他许多国家一样,
08:24
on him to prove证明 the falsehood谬误.
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要我证明他是错误的。
08:27
What did that mean?
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那意味着什么?
08:29
That meant意味着 if I didn't fight斗争,
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那意味着如果我不抗争,
08:32
he would win赢得 by default默认.
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默认他会胜诉。
08:35
And if he won韩元 by default默认,
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如果他胜诉了,
08:37
he could then legitimately合理地 say,
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他就可以合乎法律的讲,
08:40
"My David大卫 Irving欧文 version of the Holocaust大屠杀
is a legitimate合法 version.
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“我David Irving关于大屠杀的观点,
是被法律认可的。
08:45
Deborah黛博拉 LipstadtLipstadt was found发现
to have libeled诽谤 me
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Deborah Lipstadt被判定诽谤了我,
08:47
when she called me a Holocaust大屠杀 denier.
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因为她称我为大屠杀否认者。
08:49
IpsoIpso facto事实上, I, David大卫 Irving欧文,
am not a Holocaust大屠杀 denier."
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根据事实,我,David Irving,
不是大屠杀否认者。”
08:54
And what is that version?
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这是什么样的观点?
08:56
There was no plan计划 to murder谋杀 the Jews犹太人,
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不存在谋杀犹太人的计划,
08:59
there were no gas加油站 chambers,
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不存在毒气室,
09:01
there were no mass shootings枪击事件,
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不存在集体射杀,
09:03
Hitler希特勒 had nothing to do
with any suffering痛苦 that went on,
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希特勒与这些磨难毫无关系,
09:06
and the Jews犹太人 have made制作 this all up
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而犹太人只是编造了这些
09:10
to get money from Germany德国
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来从德国那里得到钱财,
09:12
and to get a state,
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来成立一个国家,
09:14
and they've他们已经 doneDONE it with the aid援助
and abettanceabettance of the allies盟国 --
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他们靠同盟国的帮助做到了这一点——
09:17
they've他们已经 planted种植的 the documents文件
and planted种植的 the evidence证据.
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他们编造了文件,编造了证据。
09:22
I couldn't不能 let that stand
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我不能让这种言论
09:24
and ever face面对 a survivor幸存者
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出现在幸存者面前,
09:27
or a child儿童 of survivors幸存者.
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1975
出现在幸存者的孩子面前。
09:29
I couldn't不能 let that stand
195
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我不能在这种言论成立时,
09:31
and consider考虑 myself
a responsible主管 historian历史学家.
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还以一个负责任的历史学家自居。
09:37
So we fought战斗.
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1745
所以我们抗争。
09:38
And for those of you
who haven't没有 seen看到 "Denial否认,"
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对于你们中还没有看到过“否决”的人,
09:41
spoiler扰流板 alert警报:
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剧透警告:
09:42
we won韩元.
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我们赢了。
09:43
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
09:45
(Applause掌声)
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(掌声)
09:51
The judge法官 found发现 David大卫 Irving欧文
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法官认为David Irving是
09:56
to be a liar说谎者,
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一个骗子,
09:59
a racist种族主义者,
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一个种族主义者,
10:00
an anti-Semite反犹份子.
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一个反犹太主义者。
10:02
His view视图 of history历史 was tendentious倾向性,
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他的历史观是充满偏见的,
10:04
he lied说谎, he distorted扭曲 --
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1926
他撒谎,他扭曲事实——
10:06
and most importantly重要的,
209
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更重要的是,
10:09
he did it deliberately故意.
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他是故意这么做的。
10:11
We showed显示 a pattern模式,
in over 25 different不同 major重大的 instances实例.
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我们在超过25个不同的主要地方,
显示了他的做法。
10:15
Not small things -- many许多 of us
in this audience听众 write books图书,
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不是小事——观众中的许多人写书,
10:18
are writing写作 books图书;
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正在写书;
10:19
we always make mistakes错误, that's why
we're glad高兴 to have second第二 editions版本:
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我们总会犯错误,这就是我们对
能有第二版感到高兴的地方:
10:23
correct正确 the mistakes错误.
215
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改正错误。
10:24
(Laughter笑声)
216
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(笑声)
10:26
But these always moved移动
in the same相同 direction方向:
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但是这些总是朝着一个方向发展:
10:30
blame the Jews犹太人,
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2211
责怪犹太人,
10:32
exonerate开脱 the Nazis纳粹.
219
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2175
为纳粹辩护。
10:35
But how did we win赢得?
220
623700
1584
但我们是怎么赢的呢?
10:38
What we did is follow跟随 his footnotes脚注
back to his sources来源.
221
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5380
我们所做的是追溯他的脚注的来源。
10:44
And what did we find?
222
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1783
我们发现了什么?
10:45
Not in most cases,
223
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1479
不是在大部分情况下,
10:47
and not in the preponderance优势 of cases,
224
635500
1968
不是在许多情况下,
10:49
but in every一切 single instance where
he made制作 some reference参考 to the Holocaust大屠杀,
225
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4311
而是在他参考大屠杀的每一个情况下,
10:53
that his supposed应该 evidence证据 was distorted扭曲,
226
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4242
他的支持证据是被扭曲的,
10:58
half-truth半真理,
227
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1420
一半是真的,
10:59
date-changed日期变更,
228
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1334
修改了日期,
11:00
sequence-changed序列改变,
229
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2187
调整了次序,
11:03
someone有人 put at a meeting会议 who wasn't there.
230
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把会议中不存在的人加了进去。
11:05
In other words,
he didn't have the evidence证据.
231
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换句话说,他没有证据。
11:08
His evidence证据 didn't prove证明 it.
232
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他的证据不能提供证明。
11:10
We didn't prove证明 what happened发生.
233
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我们没有证明发生的事情。
11:13
We proved证实 that what he said happened发生 --
234
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2499
我们证明他所说发生的事情——
11:16
and by extension延期, all deniers否认,
because he either quotes报价 them
235
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2860
广义上来说,所有否认者,
因为他们引用这个人,
11:19
or they get their arguments参数 from him --
236
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或是从他这里获得论据——
11:21
is not true真正.
237
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不是真实的。
11:22
What they claim要求 --
238
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他们声称的——
11:24
they don't have the evidence证据 to prove证明 it.
239
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他们没有证据去证明。
11:28
So why is my story故事
more than just the story故事
240
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4744
所以为什么我的故事不只是
11:33
of a quirky诡诈的, long,
six-year六年, difficult lawsuit诉讼,
241
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3807
一个离奇的,长达六年的困难诉讼,
11:37
an American美国 professor教授
being存在 dragged into a courtroom法庭
242
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4989
被一个人拽入法庭的美国教授,
11:42
by a man that the court法庭
declared声明 in its judgment判断
243
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3044
最后他被法院认定为新纳粹,
11:45
was a neo-Nazi新纳粹 polemicist辩论家?
244
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2250
这么简单?
11:47
What message信息 does it have?
245
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1783
它传递了什么样的信息?
11:49
I think in the context上下文
of the question of truth真相,
246
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2973
我认为在质疑事实的背景下,
11:52
it has a very significant重大 message信息.
247
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2462
它有着重要的信号。
11:55
Because today今天,
248
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1785
因为在今天,
11:57
as we well know,
249
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1666
我们都知道,
11:58
truth真相 and facts事实 are under assault突击.
250
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4116
事实正在遭受攻击。
12:03
Social社会 media媒体, for all
the gifts礼品 it has given特定 us,
251
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3252
社交媒体,除了它带给我们的礼物,
12:06
has also allowed允许 the difference区别
between之间 facts事实 -- established既定 facts事实 --
252
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5581
也允许事实中的不同——既定事实——
12:12
and lies
253
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1757
以及谎言
12:14
to be flattened扁平.
254
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1398
被传递。
12:16
Third第三 of all:
255
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1510
第三点:
12:18
extremism极端主义.
256
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1471
极端主义。
12:20
You may可能 not see Ku Klux三K Klan三K党 robes长袍,
257
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3577
你们也许没见过3K党的袍子,
12:24
you may可能 not see burning燃烧 crosses十字架,
258
732588
2071
你们也许没见过燃烧的十字架,
12:26
you may可能 not even hear outright公然
white白色 supremacist至上主义 language语言.
259
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4319
你们也许没听过白人至上主义者的言论。
12:31
It may可能 go by names: "alt-rightALT-权,"
"National国民 Front面前" -- pick your names.
260
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4906
它可能用了其他的名字:
“非主流右派”,“国家前线”——你们说了算。
12:35
But underneath, it's that same相同 extremism极端主义
that I found发现 in Holocaust大屠杀 denial否认
261
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但是本质上,这就和我在装作以
理性讨论否认大屠杀进行游说中
12:41
parading游行 as rational合理的 discourse演讲.
262
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看到的极端主义一样。
12:47
We live生活 in an age年龄
where truth真相 is on the defensive防御性.
263
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5217
我们生活在事实处于被动地位的时代。
12:52
I'm reminded提醒 of a New Yorker纽约客 cartoon动画片.
264
760375
2484
我想起了一个纽约客杂志上的漫画。
12:54
A quiz测验 show显示 recently最近 appeared出现
in "The New Yorker纽约客"
265
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最近纽约客杂志上有一个答题秀,
12:57
where the host主办 of the quiz测验 show显示
is saying to one of the contestants参赛者,
266
765427
3222
答题秀的主持人对其中一个参赛者说,
13:00
"Yes, ma'am夫人, you had the right answer回答.
267
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2309
“是的,女士,你的答案正确。
13:03
But your opponent对手 yelled大叫
more loudly高声 than you did,
268
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2493
但是你的对手比你喊得更响,
13:05
so he gets得到 the point."
269
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1525
所以他得分。”
13:08
What can we do?
270
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1507
我们能做什么?
13:10
First of all,
271
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1377
首先,
13:11
we cannot不能 be beguiled诱骗
by rational合理的 appearances出场.
272
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我们不能被理性的外衣所欺骗。
13:17
We've我们已经 got to look underneath,
273
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1769
我们需要看到本质,
13:19
and we will find there the extremism极端主义.
274
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2801
那样我们就会看到极端主义。
13:22
Second第二 of all,
275
790991
1986
其次,
13:25
we must必须 understand理解
that truth真相 is not relative相对的.
276
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6081
我们需要认识到事实不是相对的。
13:33
Number three,
277
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1464
最后,
13:34
we must必须 go on the offensive进攻,
278
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3689
我们必须变得主动,
13:38
not the defensive防御性.
279
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1773
而不是被动。
13:40
When someone有人 makes品牌 an outrageous蛮横的 claim要求,
280
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当有些人发出反常言论时,
13:43
even though虽然 they may可能 hold保持
one of the highest最高 offices办事处 in the land土地,
281
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3504
即使他们在一国身居高位,
13:46
if not the world世界 --
282
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2011
甚至在世界范围内——
13:48
we must必须 say to them,
283
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1510
我们必须对他们说,
13:50
"Where's哪里 the proof证明?
284
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1966
“证明在哪里?
13:52
Where's哪里 the evidence证据?"
285
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2137
证据在哪里?”
13:54
We must必须 hold保持 their feet to the fire.
286
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2927
我们必须给他们施加压力。
13:57
We must必须 not treat对待 it as if their lies
are the same相同 as the facts事实.
287
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4606
我们不能一样对待谎言和事实。
14:03
And as I said earlier,
truth真相 is not relative相对的.
288
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3540
我之前说过,
事实不是相对的。
14:06
Many许多 of us have grown长大的 up
in the world世界 of the academy学院
289
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2856
我们中的许多人成长于学术世界,
14:09
and enlightened开明 liberal自由主义的 thought,
290
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1741
接受自由思想,
14:11
where we're taught
everything is open打开 to debate辩论.
291
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2961
被教育所有事情都可以进行讨论争辩。
14:15
But that's not the case案件.
292
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2014
但不是这样的。
14:17
There are certain某些 things that are true真正.
293
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3442
某些事情确实是真的。
14:21
There are indisputable facts事实 --
294
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3020
存在毋庸置疑的事实——
14:24
objective目的 truths真理.
295
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1690
客观事实。
14:26
Galileo伽利略 taught it to us centuries百年 ago.
296
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4817
伽利略数世纪前教了我们。
14:31
Even after being存在 forced被迫
to recant宣布放弃 by the Vatican教廷
297
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4667
甚至在他被教廷逼迫
14:36
that the Earth地球 moved移动 around the Sun太阳,
298
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2573
撤回地球绕着太阳转的言论之后,
14:38
he came来了 out,
299
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1154
他走出来,
14:39
and what is he reported报道 to have said?
300
867826
2310
文字记录他说了什么?
14:42
"And yet然而, it still moves移动."
301
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3822
“但是,它仍转着。”
14:47
The Earth地球 is not flat平面.
302
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2840
地球不是平的。
14:50
The climate气候 is changing改变.
303
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2290
气候是在变化。
14:53
Elvis猫王 is not alive.
304
881387
2268
猫王不在人世了。
14:55
(Laughter笑声)
305
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1535
(笑声)
14:57
(Applause掌声)
306
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2316
(掌声)
14:59
And most importantly重要的,
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最重要的是,
15:01
truth真相 and fact事实 are under assault突击.
308
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事实正在遭受攻击质疑。
15:07
The job工作 ahead of us,
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我们面对的工作,
15:08
the task任务 ahead of us,
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我们面对的任务,
15:10
the challenge挑战 ahead of us
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我们面对的挑战,
15:11
is great.
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1234
是伟大的。
15:13
The time to fight斗争 is short.
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2637
斗争的时间不多了。
15:17
We must必须 act法案 now.
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2843
我们必须马上行动。
15:20
Later后来 will be too late晚了.
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再晚就太晚了。
15:24
Thank you very much.
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非常感谢。
15:25
(Applause掌声)
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4046
(掌声)
Translated by Lipeng Chen
Reviewed by Zhuxiao Yan

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Deborah Lipstadt - Historian
Deborah Lipstadt's research focuses on the development of Holocaust denial and how to fight for the truth in an era marked by "alternative facts."

Why you should listen

Dr. Deborah E. Lipstadt, Dorot professor of Holocaust Studies at Emory University in Atlanta, was sued for libel in 1996 by David Irving for having called him a Holocaust denier. After a ten-week trial in London in 2000, in an overwhelming victory for Lipstadt, the judge found Irving to be a "neo-Nazi polemicist" who "perverts" history and engages in "racist" and "anti-Semitic" discourse. The Daily Telegraph (London) described the trial as having "done for the new century what the Nuremberg tribunals or the Eichmann trial did for earlier generations." The Times (London) described it as "history has had its day in court and scored a crushing victory." According to the New York Times, the trial "put an end to the pretense that Mr. Irving is anything but a self-promoting apologist for Hitler."

The movie Denial, starring Rachel Weisz and Tom Wilkenson with a screenplay by David Hare, tells the story of this legal battle.  It is based on Lipstadt's book, History on Trial: My Day in Court with a Holocaust Denier (Harper Collins, 2006), and recently reissued as Denial (Harper Collins, 2016). The film was nominated for a BAFTA as one of the best British films of the year.

Lipstadt has written most recently Holocaust: An American Understanding (Rutgers, 2016), which explores how America has understood and interpreted the Holocaust since 1945.

Her previous book, The Eichmann Trial, (Schocken/Nextbook, 2011) published in commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the Eichmann trial, was called by Publisher's Weekly, "a penetrating and authoritative dissection of a landmark case and its after effects." The New York Times Book Review described Lipstadt as having "done a great service by … recovering the event as a gripping legal drama, as well as a hinge moment in Israel's history and in the world's delayed awakening to the magnitude of the Holocaust."

She has also published Beyond Belief: The American Press And The Coming Of The Holocaust, 1933-1945 (Free Press, 1986), which surveys what the American press wrote about the persecution of the Jews in the years 1933-1945.  She is currently writing a book, The Antisemitic Delusion: Letters to a Concerned Student which will be published in 2018.

At Emory, Lipstadt directs the website known as HDOT, Holocaust Denial on Trial, which contains a complete archive of the proceedings of Irving v. Penguin UK and Deborah Lipstadt. It also provides answers to frequent claims made by deniers. Lipstadt has won the Emery Williams Teaching Award, and she was selected for the award by alumni as the teacher who had most influenced them.

Lipstadt was a historical consultant to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, helping design the section of the Museum dedicated to the American Response to the Holocaust. She has held a Presidential appointment to the United States Holocaust Memorial Council (from Presidents Clinton and Obama) and was asked by President George W. Bush to represent the White House at the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz.

Lipstadt has a BA from the City College of New York and an MA and PhD from Brandeis University.

More profile about the speaker
Deborah Lipstadt | Speaker | TED.com

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